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- Jan 14, 2017
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Hi all,
My topic is concerned with loans most of us aspiring doctors are all too familiar with and an important decision I have coming up.
Let me start with a (somewhat) brief background:
I have a very, shall we say, "different" background. I always wanted to be a doctor, did well in high school and college, etc. etc. like we all did, but with one major caveat: I am a recovering drug addict/alcoholic and that led to a very dramatic, chaotic, and damaging lifestyle for approximately 12 years (addict since 13, got sober at 25, will be 28 next month). I have been sober for almost three years, but the damage I did in those 12 years, particularly to my finances, is astonishing.
When I first got sober, I knew that my original dream of being a doctor, which I somehow maintained through high school and the secondary education years, couldn't be realized immediately. I needed some time to get used to being sober, a life I didn't really know or understand since before puberty. I was at one point so helpless and a 'lost cause' that my parents had to basically shut me out. I don't blame them in the slightest. They lasted longer than I ever could have expected them to. I was homeless for a time and basically thought that was going to be the way I spent my life... from fix to fix doing whatever, legal or otherwise, in order to just see another dawn without potentially dying from drug/alcohol withdrawal. Eventually, I had some sort of awakening. I can't really describe its origins nor do I credit a 'rock bottom.' I had hit rock bottom well before I actually consciously decided to get clean. Whatever the reason, I'm eternally grateful it happened. Life has gotten infinitely better and now, less than three years later, I have agreed to take an acceptance to medical school. A dream come true, but especially dream-like for me, a person so hopeless and far-gone as I was not long ago.
Now that I'm keen to move forward and never look back (but never forget) where I came from, I'm finally enthusiastic about tackling the normal things in life. A year in, I wanted to work on my finances, which I had so brutally raped in my "IDGAF" years (don't know the policy on swearing for SDN so abbrev.'s will have to do xd). My cumulative debt is not that insane (I guess this is relative and one would have to know the nature of my bad financial habits), a total of about $21k, but it's the source(s) of the debt that is troubling to anyone who runs a credit inquiry on me. A huge chunk comes from multiple hospitalizations when I was using. Five times I was found unresponsive and taken to a hospital and committed to the psych unit (tons of fun for anyone who's never been *sarcasm*). I was uninsured so the hospital and its ridiculous bills (because I was not insured I refused to take their meds except for the necessary ones that would alleviate withdrawal symptoms and thus keep me alive) were charged to me. Because I couldn't pay the $1200/night pseudo-prison tabs, they went to collections. Between the ER bills, ambulance charges, psychiatrist charges, medication, etc. I have a total of 19!! open collection accounts I cannot even begin to pay at the moment. This brought my credit score down to ~650 but we know that the adverse credit history is far more important than the score. The only thing keeping me afloat was a number of credit cards that my father had opened for me (never gave them to me physically [that would have been a disaster back then], but he thoughtfully attached my name to his accounts long ago so that it would build my credit... oh, the irony...)
Now here's where I finally get to my concerns regarding medical school. Since I got sober, my family embraced me back with open arms. I have been a responsible, even charitable citizen ever since. My grades and MCAT were good, but the huge spans of time in my resume that are blank- I was neither working nor in school for chunks at a time, just using or drinking and being someone that was just a waste of space- so my family has been a big help. In speaking to the dean of students at the school I will attend, he said it was my personal essay about the openness regarding my past and the subsequent 'redemption' (his word not mine) that got me in.
The medical school I have decided to attend has a total cost of attendance of ~$72k per year. I thankfully will be able to take loans to pay this because the stafford loans don't depend credit and my father has agreed to cosign on the grad plus loans (keep thinking how truly lucky I am for my family as I write this opus). I also have been accepted into the HPSP scholarship through the Army. At first, it seemed like a no-brainer. I'd get out of med school without the nearly 300k of additional student loan debt and be an Army physician and could easily pay my prior debts and have that peace of mind.
I'm leaning towards NOT taking the scholarship for a variety of community-wide decisions, but mostly because of the potential risks for my specific situation. I understand the HPSP and the general sentiments of it from users on SDN. Many (if not most) regard it as the biggest regret of their lives. That certainly scared me, but I also always had a 'twinge' of inclination toward a military life. I always liked the values and consistency and God (or who/whatever else is or isn't out there) knows I needed the discipline and routine. But the military is truly a complex that doesn't seem to care as much about the individual as it does about its objective. Nothing wrong with that... it is what it is. I've been accepted but I'm afraid that 16 or 18 months down the line I'll be denied security clearance because of so many things in my background. I answered their questions honestly without divulging how big of a screw up I used to be. When they run the full National Agency Check they will see my credit history involves psych unit bills and I owe a lot of money and I do have two expunged arrests as well (not public record anymore but the military background check sees through expungements... my prints will show up and show the infractions, neither of which I was convicted of [dismissed through pretrial diversion which I hear the military views as almost or essentially equal to convictions]). Paying back the military for those 18 months is under far worse terms than a regular federal loan (something close to above 13%!!). I don't know what sort of discharge I'd receive... but even though I told them about the arrests and stated I was not convicted and the waivers were granted I don't want to risk an enormous entity issuing a dishonorable discharge and essentially ending my future.
I'm trying to figure out how I efficiently I can pay back a total of, for approximation, $320k in loans. I don't plan on getting married or having kids, so that is a lot of spending that I won't be doing. I want to specialize in cardiology or nephrology, but I understand how competitive those fields are and the many years of low-pay training involved. i want to get upper and lower figures so on the upper end I assume $400,000/year for a fully trained interventional cardiologist or $200k for a primary care physician in favorable areas of the country. I'm also likely older than the average first year med student, so time is definitely not on my side.
The figure I can't get it is how much of that principle can be paid off during residency and/or fellowship while making minimum payments. I don't have any method, but I'm just assuming it'll be at least $250-$300/month, and I don't know how much is going into interest. For the sake of calculation (since barely a dent can be made in the loan repayment during training years), let's assume I still have $305k in debt by the time I make a real paycheck.
For someone like me, who would live frugally even with a significant compensation package, without a wife or kids, I estimate I can expect to spend less than $2k a month on myself. I'm happy with the car I have now, so I don't plan on splurging on a benz any time soon (I might celebrate with a gift of the sort to myself the day my student loan balance is $0 ;-), however, but not a day before). I missed a large portion of my life being out of it. I have a lot of catching up to do, so I expect to moonlight as often as possible without losing my sanity.
If I do specialize in a higher paying field, at $400,000 does it seem reasonable to pay off the debt within 3 years? Does it seem reasonable to pay it all off in 6 years at $200k? Am I thinking too optimistically?
I know there are a bunch of variables to be accounted for.... taxes, retirement funds, investments, liquid assets for unforeseen expenses, etc. but I'm just trying to think about this simply for now. Is it too ambitious to assume I can, if I just work my butt off, be debt free in a handful of years? Does anyone know someone who has done this? Did they regret it?
Again, I have a bit of a later start than most. I'm assuming I'll be at least 40 by the time I have true physician financial compensation. I don't want to be still paying off student loans at 50, 55, or 60. I want my twilight years to be shed of all of the horrors of my earlier story's chapters.
Thanks to all who took the time to read my babbling. Ultimately I guess I'll admit I want to find some reassurance that I can achieve this financial goal without taking a huge risk (again, for my situation) and signing the HPSP contract and ultimately it being a career shattering mistake.
Regards,
LRS
My topic is concerned with loans most of us aspiring doctors are all too familiar with and an important decision I have coming up.
Let me start with a (somewhat) brief background:
I have a very, shall we say, "different" background. I always wanted to be a doctor, did well in high school and college, etc. etc. like we all did, but with one major caveat: I am a recovering drug addict/alcoholic and that led to a very dramatic, chaotic, and damaging lifestyle for approximately 12 years (addict since 13, got sober at 25, will be 28 next month). I have been sober for almost three years, but the damage I did in those 12 years, particularly to my finances, is astonishing.
When I first got sober, I knew that my original dream of being a doctor, which I somehow maintained through high school and the secondary education years, couldn't be realized immediately. I needed some time to get used to being sober, a life I didn't really know or understand since before puberty. I was at one point so helpless and a 'lost cause' that my parents had to basically shut me out. I don't blame them in the slightest. They lasted longer than I ever could have expected them to. I was homeless for a time and basically thought that was going to be the way I spent my life... from fix to fix doing whatever, legal or otherwise, in order to just see another dawn without potentially dying from drug/alcohol withdrawal. Eventually, I had some sort of awakening. I can't really describe its origins nor do I credit a 'rock bottom.' I had hit rock bottom well before I actually consciously decided to get clean. Whatever the reason, I'm eternally grateful it happened. Life has gotten infinitely better and now, less than three years later, I have agreed to take an acceptance to medical school. A dream come true, but especially dream-like for me, a person so hopeless and far-gone as I was not long ago.
Now that I'm keen to move forward and never look back (but never forget) where I came from, I'm finally enthusiastic about tackling the normal things in life. A year in, I wanted to work on my finances, which I had so brutally raped in my "IDGAF" years (don't know the policy on swearing for SDN so abbrev.'s will have to do xd). My cumulative debt is not that insane (I guess this is relative and one would have to know the nature of my bad financial habits), a total of about $21k, but it's the source(s) of the debt that is troubling to anyone who runs a credit inquiry on me. A huge chunk comes from multiple hospitalizations when I was using. Five times I was found unresponsive and taken to a hospital and committed to the psych unit (tons of fun for anyone who's never been *sarcasm*). I was uninsured so the hospital and its ridiculous bills (because I was not insured I refused to take their meds except for the necessary ones that would alleviate withdrawal symptoms and thus keep me alive) were charged to me. Because I couldn't pay the $1200/night pseudo-prison tabs, they went to collections. Between the ER bills, ambulance charges, psychiatrist charges, medication, etc. I have a total of 19!! open collection accounts I cannot even begin to pay at the moment. This brought my credit score down to ~650 but we know that the adverse credit history is far more important than the score. The only thing keeping me afloat was a number of credit cards that my father had opened for me (never gave them to me physically [that would have been a disaster back then], but he thoughtfully attached my name to his accounts long ago so that it would build my credit... oh, the irony...)
Now here's where I finally get to my concerns regarding medical school. Since I got sober, my family embraced me back with open arms. I have been a responsible, even charitable citizen ever since. My grades and MCAT were good, but the huge spans of time in my resume that are blank- I was neither working nor in school for chunks at a time, just using or drinking and being someone that was just a waste of space- so my family has been a big help. In speaking to the dean of students at the school I will attend, he said it was my personal essay about the openness regarding my past and the subsequent 'redemption' (his word not mine) that got me in.
The medical school I have decided to attend has a total cost of attendance of ~$72k per year. I thankfully will be able to take loans to pay this because the stafford loans don't depend credit and my father has agreed to cosign on the grad plus loans (keep thinking how truly lucky I am for my family as I write this opus). I also have been accepted into the HPSP scholarship through the Army. At first, it seemed like a no-brainer. I'd get out of med school without the nearly 300k of additional student loan debt and be an Army physician and could easily pay my prior debts and have that peace of mind.
I'm leaning towards NOT taking the scholarship for a variety of community-wide decisions, but mostly because of the potential risks for my specific situation. I understand the HPSP and the general sentiments of it from users on SDN. Many (if not most) regard it as the biggest regret of their lives. That certainly scared me, but I also always had a 'twinge' of inclination toward a military life. I always liked the values and consistency and God (or who/whatever else is or isn't out there) knows I needed the discipline and routine. But the military is truly a complex that doesn't seem to care as much about the individual as it does about its objective. Nothing wrong with that... it is what it is. I've been accepted but I'm afraid that 16 or 18 months down the line I'll be denied security clearance because of so many things in my background. I answered their questions honestly without divulging how big of a screw up I used to be. When they run the full National Agency Check they will see my credit history involves psych unit bills and I owe a lot of money and I do have two expunged arrests as well (not public record anymore but the military background check sees through expungements... my prints will show up and show the infractions, neither of which I was convicted of [dismissed through pretrial diversion which I hear the military views as almost or essentially equal to convictions]). Paying back the military for those 18 months is under far worse terms than a regular federal loan (something close to above 13%!!). I don't know what sort of discharge I'd receive... but even though I told them about the arrests and stated I was not convicted and the waivers were granted I don't want to risk an enormous entity issuing a dishonorable discharge and essentially ending my future.
I'm trying to figure out how I efficiently I can pay back a total of, for approximation, $320k in loans. I don't plan on getting married or having kids, so that is a lot of spending that I won't be doing. I want to specialize in cardiology or nephrology, but I understand how competitive those fields are and the many years of low-pay training involved. i want to get upper and lower figures so on the upper end I assume $400,000/year for a fully trained interventional cardiologist or $200k for a primary care physician in favorable areas of the country. I'm also likely older than the average first year med student, so time is definitely not on my side.
The figure I can't get it is how much of that principle can be paid off during residency and/or fellowship while making minimum payments. I don't have any method, but I'm just assuming it'll be at least $250-$300/month, and I don't know how much is going into interest. For the sake of calculation (since barely a dent can be made in the loan repayment during training years), let's assume I still have $305k in debt by the time I make a real paycheck.
For someone like me, who would live frugally even with a significant compensation package, without a wife or kids, I estimate I can expect to spend less than $2k a month on myself. I'm happy with the car I have now, so I don't plan on splurging on a benz any time soon (I might celebrate with a gift of the sort to myself the day my student loan balance is $0 ;-), however, but not a day before). I missed a large portion of my life being out of it. I have a lot of catching up to do, so I expect to moonlight as often as possible without losing my sanity.
If I do specialize in a higher paying field, at $400,000 does it seem reasonable to pay off the debt within 3 years? Does it seem reasonable to pay it all off in 6 years at $200k? Am I thinking too optimistically?
I know there are a bunch of variables to be accounted for.... taxes, retirement funds, investments, liquid assets for unforeseen expenses, etc. but I'm just trying to think about this simply for now. Is it too ambitious to assume I can, if I just work my butt off, be debt free in a handful of years? Does anyone know someone who has done this? Did they regret it?
Again, I have a bit of a later start than most. I'm assuming I'll be at least 40 by the time I have true physician financial compensation. I don't want to be still paying off student loans at 50, 55, or 60. I want my twilight years to be shed of all of the horrors of my earlier story's chapters.
Thanks to all who took the time to read my babbling. Ultimately I guess I'll admit I want to find some reassurance that I can achieve this financial goal without taking a huge risk (again, for my situation) and signing the HPSP contract and ultimately it being a career shattering mistake.
Regards,
LRS
