Matrix - Game Thread

[supershorty]

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[WildZoo]

🦐

Omg big shrimp

 

[WildZoo]

Extra helpful

 

[Zenge142]

Okay so let’s talk about the potential for an Acromatic & Samac Pack.

The Samacro Packro. The Acrosamacro Packo.

On Day 1 Acro pushed me and did so in a way that I felt was a floppy. Not really based on any strong convictions and ultimately backed off when met with resistance from me.

(It reminded me a lot of Falcon from the crossover game tbh. Throw a vote down on what might be an easy push, get decent pushback, back off to find a different parking spot. Etc.)

There were a few things that particularly bother me about some of our interactions, notably Acro’s apparent lack of interest in solving, and then pretending to not understand why a wolf would sheep a “village read” onto a misyeet (although this was countered by saying Acro was looking to see what my response was, which I feel was more like backpedaling)

At the time I was village reading Samac, and wanted to get her take on these things.

When I saw her responses all the pieces of me shattered as I hit the floor.


So lets go into why Samac’s responses disturbed me so much

Acro’s statement that if they weren’t going to yeet me they’d probably just “sheep one of their village reads onto whoever”.

Like I get if you’re right before yeet close and you’re scrambling to find somewhere to vote, sure you might sheep a village read.

But my god! Imagine saying that in the middle of the cycle with hours left to go. Literally no idea about any other wolf reads, no plans to get other wolf reads, just pick a “village read” and sheep them.

And Samac DEFENDS it?!?! Like yeah sure I’ve seen it… in waffle hour. Not as a blanket statement about your plan for the rest of the cycle mid day.

Village Samac would be NAILING them to the wall for this. Village Samac has crucified so many players for so much less!

What is happening here!

And let’s not forget her stubbornness surrounding MKG all D1.


Like was MKG the greenest villager to ever live? No, of course not. Has she ever even eaten a green bean? Who knows!

But what I do know is Samac KNOWS she can be an easy push. She KNOWS MKG has a sketchy meta.

I really believe Village Samac would have been more cautious about a potential D1 MKG misyeet and would have taken my hesitation about it a little less blithely.

Now let’s talk about the start of D2!

Samac is literally PR hunting in broad daylight!


IS NO ONE GOING TO CALL HER OUT ON THIS?

Spoiler

Like hello? Assuming Moon is the doctor we’ve got 2 PRs left hidden.

If there is a motion detector and they reveal, then they’ve outted themselves and even worse yet they’re potentially going to out the last remaining PR.

You can’t tell me village Samac doesn’t know this!

SHE’S HOWLING!!!

I keep finding these posts in pages
Crucial evidence I didn’t imagine the whole thing

 

[Clem J]

I’m not having my best game
But I’m trying my best

Oh it was a good thing lol I more meant that I'm probably dumb for clearing you for it lol

 

[Clem J]

Unyeet moonster
Yeet genny

It’s not a poem, it’s a modified Taylor Swift song, smh tbh

Further proof that Taylor swift is not a poet smh

 

[Achromatic]

I forgot about timezones and thought day was supposed to start 5 minutes ago lol


This post immediately gives me bad vibes

It feels a bit performative ig

The initial reasoning makes little sense (santy's explanation was as brief as could be), and then you immediately walk back the read after being questioned about it for... iffy reasons.

I'm a big fan of making exaggerated reads in RVS to get discussion going, but the way you did it just comes of a little fake to me.

Maybe santy/moonster are partners...



I have no good reason to believe that

Okay so, let me explain why i think Gikkle is just obvious town from these three posts (along with the posts quoted within, so you may need to go to them for full detail)

First off, the vague suspicion of Moon early is something I like as unpartnered. Scum partners will rarely go for the vibe check or stuff like that, but seek to be more concrete and interactive with their partners. The casualness of this comment I think works in their favor as being unpartnered.

Moon asks about it, and Gikkle's response is pretty damning lol and not at all charitable. This isn't the type of read I usually see from bussing partners, because it's a pretty easy thing to wave off or to squint at but shrug and move on from. So Gikkle going after Moon for this early i think is a good look.

I can also see the gears turning for santy/moon being partners based off of that post. A little "ok, moon was going for distancing but backed off as to not make it a big deal, so maybe partnered?" even though it was thin and wrong.

There's just some like, obvious gears turning here and I don't think most scum would go for this angle of attack.

There's a lot more than just this, but honestly just this early game interaction is a great start to a gikkle town read and then you just keep reading and it gets better lol.


Gikkle should be in no one's poe tbh.

 

[Clem J]

You couldn’t have done this before my big wall post?

Genius strikes when it strikes, soz

 

[Clem J]

I refuse to accept a w!Gikkle because it means my tie move didn't work and I hate that

Eh I haven't evaluated them for pairing yet but achro is pretty confident they're unpaired so I'm probably putting it on the back burner

 

[Achromatic]

Time to get into the mind of a KILLER. I enjoy the moon and I am informed, mashes are fun but i have chosen to kill. My name is Moonstermash.

IDK about Achro, but mine isn't. I just felt like it was an overly explained excuse to immediately leave the thread. His next couple posts trend a little better, though (didn't actually leave thread, mildly pushed back on a townread of him), so I'd agree null is accurate at the moment.

This is in response to Shinichi in what I view as a very typical and classical scum interaction for a moderately good scum player. You get the back and forth moving, but nothing really happens here. Also I have noticed that for a lot of people I know/pretty sure are town (me, santy, gikkle, space, genny to name some) Moon feels nervous in how they talk. They feel at east to shinichi here. I am going to trust my reads on how moon interacts with people because I basically one tapped them day 1 with not too much difficulty socially.

Why vote Shinichi?

Importantly Moon never gives a reason to town read Shinichi day one, unlike say...

Are you saying 198 was bleh? I'd argue it's the towniest post in thread so far, LOL.

When it comes to Gikkle Moon feels at ease to say their early post was towny, as if it comes easy to them.

1) Yeah, that's kinda the vibe, on purpose.

2) Honestly not sure how to respond to what appears to be an(other) emoji read?

3) What do you think the towniest post in thread is, then? Because from where I'm sitting, Gikkle gave a non-exhaustive overview of the game, didn't come off as too hedgy or too confrontational, and asked some decent questions. It also doesn't have that wolfy shape of trying to give equal attention to everyone. If it's performative, it's a pretty good show, TBH.

Again, Gikkle is so towny oh em gee besties! It's easy for Moon because they don't have to lie or anything, they know Gikkle is town and so them liking that post is pretty easy.

At a glance, I'd veto Gikkle, Stagg, and maybe Zenge. Stagg is actually my #2 townread right now, and I think we're fine to give Zenge 1 more day to see how he does.

For the rest, Shinichi seems too easy of a vote, IMO. I'd have to re-read for mkg thoughts, and I think Santy came out looking worse from that convo with Stagg.

My vote was a joke, but I'm fine staying where I am, especially with Clem's OMGUS. Otherwise, I'd probably go Santy or genny.

Look at this Shinichi read. It isn't even a town read, but a "seems too easy of a vote." Who talks that way about a town member as a wolf? Maybe Moon, but... Moon had no problem calling people towny day one and defending them, but with Shinichi there wasn't any real defense just excuses made for them. As if Moon doesn't have a lot of experience with being a creative wolf and weaving tall tales for the village to sup upon for dinner. It comes off as pained. I don't know moon's wolf game I admit, so perhaps this is a ploy but there's a couple of things that make me not think so, and both of them involve how they treat me.

So I know from why i was suspicious of them day 1 that they have trouble with suspecting people as wolf, not really able to fool me for even 48 hours but what guides me here is how they treated me day 2 and especially at end of day. They laid it on pretty thick that they didnt want me killed, and gave a full throated defense of me. It's a clumsy pairing attempt, no offense to Moon intended. There is a marked clumsiness to many of Moon's interactions. i will have to re-evaluate if Shinichi's slot is actually town and this was just a well placed ruse, but nothing i have seen in their iso with available data to me makes me think they are operating on another level than the one I can see clearly.

I don't vibe with her reads or her vote on Shinichi, and her callout of me felt bad.

Importantly, again, she has not said a single positive thing about Shinichi for the entire thread. While Gikkle she has substance, while other townies she can point to something, this defense of shinichi has no basis in the thread. Probably because it was born out of a need to wolf side even if it was clumsy.

 

[Achromatic]

Here is the back and forth with Shinichi and I.

Shinichi’s vote, reasoning, explanations, and supposed suspicion is incredibly manufactured and outright lying at points:

Importantly, all of the things here said by Zenge still apply to Shinichi's slot as well.

This isn't merely a case built upon a pairing, but the pairing fits remarkably well on top of outstanding issues with Shinichi.

 

[Clem J]

Somebody good at bait claims is on the mafia team. That might be moon themselves, idk them well enough, but more likely than not at least one member is.

 

[Clem J]

I should say someone good at the mechanics of bait claims, I don't mean to imply someone mightve been draking moon's claim

 

[Achromatic]

If it is Moon and Shinichi I think the last wolf is in the trio of the two replacements and dubz tbh

Because I dont think psv sees wolf shinichi being in danger and decides to start a vanity on me super late lol

 

[Achromatic]

If it is Moon and Shinichi I think the last wolf is in the trio of the two replacements and dubz tbh

Because I dont think psv sees wolf shinichi being in danger and decides to start a vanity on me super late lol

sorry I overlapped there

in this case it is between marmot/dubz, since the other replacement is shinichi lol

 

[Achromatic]

Here's the rundown, right?

Genny is pr
Zenge has a lot of clearing interactions with both of those slots
Clem J was pointing out to kill the doc claim day 1 which feels like a super jerk move to do to your partner on a new site for them lol
samac's lone issue, rolefishing, now makes complete sense with the information we have.

I'd probably coordinate the two roleblocks publicly because since we have two blocks tonight we can maybe rule out a team of two by using both blocks?

 

[Achromatic]

Actually there's a mafia blocker, so that isnt concrete unless moon is the blocker.

 

[marmot`]

Good morning chat, you smell great today!

 

[Clem J]

Here's the rundown, right?

Genny is pr
Zenge has a lot of clearing interactions with both of those slots
Clem J was pointing out to kill the doc claim day 1 which feels like a super jerk move to do to your partner on a new site for them lol
samac's lone issue, rolefishing, now makes complete sense with the information we have.

I'd probably coordinate the two roleblocks publicly because since we have two blocks tonight we can maybe rule out a team of two by using both blocks?

Inventor block was already given n1 and used n2, iirc

 

[samac]

Oh it was a good thing lol I more meant that I'm probably dumb for clearing you for it lol

I read it as “I have a hard time clearing” lololol

 

[samac]

Inventor block was already given n1 and used n2, iirc

Correct.
I was afraid to die with it and I was working the the world of doc, tracker and inventor

 

[samac]

Moons interaction with dubz is pretty one note tbh

I was hardly exaggerating; it was a lean scum on 2 posts, I'm not out here death tunneling or anything.

Comparing Santy's entrance to Zenges' (and Dubz' after), it just seemed a bit worse. Neither of them felt the need to immediately explain their (in)activity; Santy doing that at all felt overexplained, regardless of length. But I acknowledged while making the initial read that it could be NAI, so I didn't really walk anywhere to walk back from.

Anyway, not that I think this is gonna help, but this is about where I'm at, not ordered in tiers:

moonster

Gikkle
Stagg737

Achromatic
samac
Spacecamp
WildZoo
Zenge142

holdthemayo
mkg323
potentialsheltervet

ShinichiMD

Clem J
genny
Santy

Alright, I caught up, but I was hoping to get the spreadsheet done and posted, and I'm not quite there yet. (I should really figure out how Nate automates things, I'm silly enough to do it all manually.) Hopefully I'll have more time for that tonight/early tomorrow.

In the meantime, this is where I'm at:

Zenge
Achro

samac & Dubz

Clem J
PSV
Santy

mayo/marmot
genny
Stagg737

Gikkle
Shinichi

Sorry to drop a list and run, but I'll answer any questions when I can.

Stagg
Achro
PSV (not paired with Achro)
Shinichi
Mayo-->Marmot
Gikkle
Clem
moon
genny
Zenge
samac
Santy

Ooo, colors

Why is PSV not paired with Achro?

I doubt she chooses to make a case on a partner right at EOD on d1 for like, no discernable strategic reason

Oh, right, of course. That slipped my mind, lol.

I'll just drop my reads list for a refresh of where I stand, TBH:

Zenge
Achro

samac & Dubz
Santy

Clem J
PSV
mayo/marmot
genny

Stagg737

Gikkle
Shinichi

Zenge - think once he got into gear yesterDay and voted he got a lot townier tbh, and that's continued today (except i don't really vibe with the achro/samac idea, but i've had crazier yarn brains tbh)
Achro - unvoted me, don't think he kills spacecamp, etc.

Santy - tbh i've been told i have an omgus problem lol, and i think he's been all over thread today in a way that feels good
samac & Dubz - similar good vibes, solving, esp. today

Clem J - came around to "too audacious to be scum" TBH, and also he's had content outside that today that's ~fine
PSV - mostly liked her EOD catchup, vibes fine today
mayo/marmot - activity has helped, think he's had a couple good thoughts (that i can't remember right now i'm frantically typing this and my brain feels like goo tbh sorry)
genny - out of respect for other townreads, moving her up slightly tbh

Stagg737 - vote/suss on me left a bad taste in my mouth TBH, more likely scum in my initial pair of voters today (iirc him and clem)

Gikkle - partner equity with shinichi, maybe not totally sold on reason to vote mkg tbh
Shinichi - counterwagon to mkg, Zenge case, vibes, shinichi (0) :/

TBH I feel a lot better about my top 5 than the rest. If I had to think about being wrong in there somewhere, never underestimate Achro, but also maybe samac/Dubz has a little of that Santy/genny vibe I was worried about yesterday? IDK.

 

[Gikkle]

Clem J was pointing out to kill the doc claim day 1 which feels like a super jerk move to do to your partner on a new site for them lol

It's not like it was anything more than shade given the fact he didn't explain what he meant

 

[Gikkle]

It's not like it was anything more than shade given the fact he didn't explain what he meant

(Until the next day, that is, but moonster's time was already limited by that point)

 

[Gikkle]

I am a very good wolf.

Which is why I wouldnt try to drown moon so viciously day 1 lol

Ehhhhh

Bussing could easily be possible, although far less likely if moonster was in no danger beforehand

Imma go check the circumstances of your d1 push real quick.

 

[Zenge142]

Moons interaction with dubz is pretty one note tbh

Not exactly the musical score I’d add to my Spotify.

 

[SportPonies]

Do you think mayo puts in less effort when wolfing?

More saying that I think wolf Mayo wouldve “tried harder” to sound…. Good?

 

[Gikkle]

I feel like there is a possibility of a bus from Achro bc the wagon had already been started by Santy? But it'd be a bit weird bc it hadn't really gained traction until Achro started pushing it. So ig it is a pretty decent look.

It is a bit noteable that Achro came online after 5 hours to unvote them though. And that moonster thought that was distinct enough to TR them for on d2.

I'll keep this in my back pocket for now.

 

[Gikkle]

Page 12 has an interesting moonster/shinichi back and forth that could mean something

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Because I dont think psv sees wolf shinichi being in danger and decides to start a vanity on me super late lol

You don't know me!

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I feel like there is a possibility of a bus from Achro bc the wagon had already been started by Santy? But it'd be a bit weird bc it hadn't really gained traction until Achro started pushing it. So ig it is a pretty decent look.

It is a bit noteable that Achro came online after 5 hours to unvote them though. And that moonster thought that was distinct enough to TR them for on d2.

I'll keep this in my back pocket for now.

I think Shinichi/Dubz are more likely hits but if there aren't wolves in those two this is worth revisiting.

 

[Gikkle]

Psv just kind of ignores the doctor claim despite actively posting at the time
Which honestly just feels townie to me lol

 

[Gikkle]

I think Shinichi/Dubz are more likely hits but if there aren't wolves in those two this is worth revisiting.

It concerns me that those two were roleblocked n1 & n2 tho

Ig it's possible that moonster performed the kill or they alternated who performed the kill, but it doesn't fill me with confidence

 

[potentialsheltervet]

It concerns me that those two were roleblocked n1 & n2 tho

Ig it's possible that moonster performed the kill or they alternated who performed the kill, but it doesn't fill me with confidence

Yeah that's a good point

 

[WildZoo]

Not exactly the musical score I’d add to my Spotify.

You don't even have Spotify 😡

 

[WildZoo]

I think Shinichi/Dubz are more likely hits but if there aren't wolves in those two this is worth revisiting.

Excuse me?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Excuse me?

Your interactions with moon aren't great, Zenge isn't feeling the best about you... it ain't looking great, fam.
Prove me wrong!

 

[SportPonies]

I’ve only finished D1 so the rest of my pbpa is coming later.

Driving into work and thinking how I’m a little concerned that my POE is largely SDNers and feel like I have an anti-familiarity bias going on

 

[SportPonies]

More saying that I think wolf Mayo wouldve “tried harder” to sound…. Good?

@WildZoo do you understand what I mean, or are you just pondering?

 

[WildZoo]

Your interactions with moon aren't great, Zenge isn't feeling the best about you... it ain't looking great, fam.
Prove me wrong!

My interactions with half the roster probably aren't great given my sporadic appearances. I'm not exactly known for not interacting with my packmates in meaningful ways so I'm not sure why Zenge and samac are giving that much weight.

And Zenge has had multiple times where he hedged on me and I was village. He'll find me eventually but it's not really fair to treat his hedging as if he's laid down the reading card. It's actually pretty damn annoying and lazy. Read me yourself.

 

[Gikkle]

mkg (5) - Stagg 45, Achro 77, samac 122, Gikkle 48, Santy 120
Shini (3) - genny 42, Zenge 95, mkg 39

Why are none of the wolves on mkg if it's wildzoo/shinichi?

Moonster was on borrowed time. They can't really afford another mafia biting the dust. So why did neither moonster or WildZoo - both of whom were online at the time - vote mkg? Bc shinichi was tied for top wagon until 3 minutes prior to EoD.

 

[WildZoo]

@WildZoo do you understand what I mean, or are you just pondering?

Pondering

 

[samac]

I’ve only finished D1 so the rest of my pbpa is coming later.

Driving into work and thinking how I’m a little concerned that my POE is largely SDNers and feel like I have an anti-familiarity bias going on

What is your pie

 

[samac]

My interactions with half the roster probably aren't great given my sporadic appearances. I'm not exactly known for not interacting with my packmates in meaningful ways so I'm not sure why Zenge and samac are giving that much weight.

And Zenge has had multiple times where he hedged on me and I was village. He'll find me eventually but it's not really fair to treat his hedging as if he's laid down the reading card. It's actually pretty damn annoying and lazy. Read me yourself.

It’s not your interactions I’m particularly looking at, I know you intentionally do. It’s the flip of moon’s interactions.

 

[samac]

Why are none of the wolves on mkg if it's wildzoo/shinichi?

Moonster was on borrowed time. They can't really afford another mafia biting the dust. So why did neither moonster or WildZoo - both of whom were online at the time - vote mkg? Bc shinichi was tied for top wagon until 3 minutes prior to EoD.

It’s a good point, but both of them being on doesn’t help. They could have jumped at any point to the mkg wagon. Better to let the villagers hammer it down

 

[WildZoo]

What is your pie

Blueberry

 

[WildZoo]

It’s not your interactions I’m particularly looking at, I know you intentionally do. It’s the flip of moon’s interactions.

Well. Nothing I can do about a wolf not being concerned with me but whatever.

 

[samac]

Well. Nothing I can do about a wolf not being concerned with me but whatever.

Similar to the catch on you in MHA, it wasn’t your interactions that dammed you it was Zenges.
But instead of this back and forth I want to hear your thoughts on moon, who you think her pack is and why

 

[samac]

I also really don’t want sporty to be wolfing because I don’t want to go down that exhausting path. It’s never pleasant for her or I and I’m not feeling like starting that rabbit hole.

 

[Gikkle]

It’s a good point, but both of them being on doesn’t help. They could have jumped at any point to the mkg wagon. Better to let the villagers hammer it down

Waiting till the very last minute just looks bad. They were tied for top wagon until 3 minutes prior to EoD.
Like if they broke the tie and saved shini at 1 minute till EoD, and either flip wolf later on, it looks really paired in retrospect.