'Medical Kidnapping' by Mayo Clinic

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Valtun

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Not sure if you guys have seen this yet, but it's all over the news from what I can see.

Part 1: Escape from the Mayo Clinic: Teen accuses world-famous hospital of 'medical kidnapping' - CNN
Part 2: Escape from the Mayo Clinic: Parents break teen out of world-famous hospital - CNN

It's pretty shocking to see something like this as I never have before, and never thought something like this could even exist lol. I would love to hear some of your guys' opinions on what you think: was the hospital in the wrong? Or was this family actually deserving of the treatment they got?

And for those of you that are already physicians and work at hospitals, has something like this happened before? I'm under the impression that it doesn't happen much but ever since this came out there have been multiple people come out and tell their story as it relates to this one.

Sounds like some sort of movie lol
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Ofc it's a movie, it had a police chase!
I read on CNN that there's a lot that still needs to be investigated. However, judging by the fact that a former board member on Mayo was admitting fault on the part of Mayo, there's something clearly wrong that happened here.
 
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Apparently, the articles were written based on one side of the story (they only interviewed the parents and the daughter bc Mayo was not giving info). Plus there were so many things unexplained in this report. The mother was "banned" from Mayo ground because she interrupted a medical meeting (as I remember). The reporter made it sound so casual, but what if the mother barged into a clinical meeting and was being physically aggressive? If I were the director, I would totally ban her from the hospital. And the conflict started because the girl wanted morphine for her pain, but the physicians refused to give opioids. Idk, that might be the physician's fault, not manage pain properly, but I agree that this family does give me the vibe of being demanding and rude. Hopefully there will be a follow-up story.
 
There's more than one side to a story, especially when it is just breaking. Families and physician input for patient decisions is a gray area when it comes to certain areas of medicine.

You should check out this article if you want to see an example of this in action. It's a fantastic read.
 
This CNN story is meant to be sensational; it is entirely one sided and does not present the actual facts of what happened. All I can say is there is a lot missing from this story. Mayo released this statement which does not disclose specific details for obvious reasons but gives a little more insight. I wish they were able to disclose more because based on what I know I think people would feel very differently about this story if they knew the truth. I suggest reading into the bolded statement made by Mayo. It says as much as they really can..

“Following a thorough and careful review of the care in question, we have determined that the version of events provided by certain patient family members to CNN are not supported by the facts nor do they track with the direct observations of numerous other providers on the patient’s care team. Our internal review determined that the care team’s actions were true to Mayo Clinic’s primary value that the patient’s needs come first. We acted in a manner that honored that value for this patient and that also took into account the safety and well-being of the team caring for the patient...

This story lacks further clarification and context that CNN knew but chose not to use.

While we will not discuss specific patients or their families, many who seek Mayo Clinic’s care can also be dealing with significant emotional and family dynamic complications which can be challenging in an already complex medical situation. We provided life-saving care for this patient and made decisions based on what we felt is best for the future of this patient.”

Mayo Clinic responds to patient story published by CNN

Mayo Clinic says family's statements to CNN 'are not supported by the facts'
 
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FroYoOreo said:
Apparently, the articles were written based on one side of the story (they only interviewed the parents and the daughter bc Mayo was not giving info). Plus there were so many things unexplained in this report. The mother was "banned" from Mayo ground because she interrupted a medical meeting (as I remember). The reporter made it sound so casual, but what if the mother barged into a clinical meeting and was being physically aggressive? If I were the director, I would totally ban her from the hospital. And the conflict started because the girl wanted morphine for her pain, but the physicians refused to give opioids. Idk, that might be the physician's fault, not manage pain properly, but I agree that this family does give me the vibe of being demanding and rude. Hopefully there will be a follow-up story.
Click to expand...

The mother told CNN she was banned from Mayo for “interrupting a meeting”. Mayo doesn’t willy nilly ban people from the premises - I’ve seen patients do some pretty outrageous things and still not get banned. It takes A LOT to get escorted out and banned. Again there is a lot more to this story that is not being reported. Same with the opioid story the parents told.
 
There's two sides to this story, and CNN seems to subtly favor the family's side rather than Mayo's.
 
Select All That Apply said:
I guess this is what news looks like in a post-Trump era.

"World class mayo won't disclose the secret sauce, what is it hiding?"
"World class mayo commits HIPAA violation by leaking information! Is your information safe!?"
Click to expand...

I've got absolutely no love for Trump but news has always looked like this: Sensationalized and polarizing. Has nothing to do with a "post-Trump era". Gotta get those clicks/views.
 
There’s actually three sides to every story; one side, the other side, and then the truth. Family visitation is a privilege, not a right. Mayo had every right to determine who should be allowed on the hospital grounds. That said, it sounds like the hospital stated the patient was able to make her own decisions until she made a decision they disagreed with, then she was deemed incompetent. I’d love to hear the whole story though.,
 
poohbear7 said:
However, judging by the fact that a former board member on Mayo was admitting fault on the part of Mayo, there's something clearly wrong that happened here.
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That's not quite correct. From other sources I've read it seems like Mark Gaalswyk is a friend of the family who got involved to advocate on the patient's behalf, not someone who was involved from the hospital's side.
 
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Biased. I’m gonna wait for the reports that don’t scream « you won’t believe what happened... »


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smukke said:
That's not quite correct. From other sources I've read it seems like Mark Gaalswyk is a friend of the family who got involved to advocate on the patient's behalf, not someone who was involved from the hospital's side.
Click to expand...
He used to be on the board of Mayo tho...
 
poohbear7 said:
He used to be on the board of Mayo tho...
Click to expand...

Mayo has many boards. He was on the board of a Mayo hospital, not the main one nor the one at the hospital she was at.

Also keep in mind that when a hospital gets taken over there's often tension between the old guard and new management. Not saying that's the reason he's speaking out but it is something to keep in mind.
 
Select All That Apply said:
I guess this is what news looks like in a post-Trump era.

"World class mayo won't disclose the secret sauce, what is it hiding?"
"World class mayo commits HIPAA violation by leaking information! Is your information safe!?"
Click to expand...

Not sure how old you are, but CNN has been making **** up and sensationalizing stories for a very long time.
 
Patient didn't get as many opioids as she wanted and it just grew from there. Seems pretty classic. Patients and families quickly forget their lives were saved from the brink of death when they don't get enough opioids. Suddenly, suffering from pain for a few days is worse than dying.
 
One telling thing in that cnn story was when the mom was saying she had two whiteboards full of questions that weren’t being answered. That plus the opioids = big red flag that parents are insane. For a place like mayo to actively seek guardianship of an adult patient means the family is seriously messed up and not acting in the patient’s best interest.


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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Not sure how old you are, but CNN has been making **** up and sensationalizing stories for a very long time.
Click to expand...
I’m slowly noticing the shell that surrounds me after watching exclusively CNN from the beginning lol. I’m definitely not going to watch Fox News tho.
 
poohbear7 said:
I’m slowly noticing the shell that surrounds me after watching exclusively CNN from the beginning lol. I’m definitely not going to watch Fox News tho.
Click to expand...
I tried to find an unbiased news source and just gave up. Now I live in blissful ignorance.
 
IknowImnotadoctor said:
That said, it sounds like the hospital stated the patient was able to make her own decisions until she made a decision they disagreed with, then she was deemed incompetent. I’d love to hear the whole story though.,
Click to expand...

Capacity. It has specific criteria, and it's also something that laypeople don't particularly understand.
 
WingedOx said:
My cable use is for sports only. The only time I ever turn on CNN is for post-election coverage, and that's really just for infotainment.
Click to expand...
Even though I disdain FOX even more, CNN makes me roll my eyes. Nowadays news channels treat their audience like they are idiots.
 
FroYoOreo said:
Even though I disdain FOX even more, CNN makes me roll my eyes. Nowadays news channels treat their audience like they are idiots.
Click to expand...
I got the sense the reporter had a little too much fun writing the Mayo piece.....
 
FroYoOreo said:
Lol FOX does the same thing. It's not like a competition between the two for being less evil. They are both horrible.
Click to expand...

I'm sure. I'm not familiar with specific cases of Fox doing it. There are multiple examples of CNN ruining multiple people's lives and livelihoods because they made up a story for ratings.

But yes, they are both horrible. I hate the media in this country and feel like they should all be prosecuted.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I'm sure. I'm not familiar with specific cases of Fox doing it. There are multiple examples of CNN ruining multiple people's lives and livelihoods because they made up a story for ratings.

But yes, they are both horrible. I hate the media in this country and feel like they should all be prosecuted.
Click to expand...
Yup, reporting fairly and accurately is secondary to making money in their eyes.
 
If you follow the story through , though, you find that Mayo could not get a judge to give Mayo guardianship. Furthermore, while they were asking for guardianship, the woman was making her own decisions so that the judge asked, "who is making the decisions now?" and they replied, "she is". Huh?? And, typically, when assigning guardianship, the preference is for someone who knows and loves the person who lacks decision making capacity. There were plenty of people to choose from and the judge, if they were going to entertain granting someone guardianship, would have first asked if there was anyone in the family or a friend who could take that role. After the escape, when physicians outside of Mayo said that she was okay to leave the hospital and the cops called off their chase, the woman went home to her family and appears to have thrived. Are you going to believe Mayo or the woman who is alive, attending school, and not as bad off as Mayo would have you believe? It is as if Mayo wanted to choose the nuclear option in dealing with a difficulty mama.
 
LizzyM said:
If you follow the story through , though, you find that Mayo could not get a judge to give Mayo guardianship. Furthermore, while they were asking for guardianship, the woman was making her own decisions so that the judge asked, "who is making the decisions now?" and they replied, "she is". Huh?? And, typically, when assigning guardianship, the preference is for someone who knows and loves the person who lacks decision making capacity. There were plenty of people to choose from and the judge, if they were going to entertain granting someone guardianship, would have first asked if there was anyone in the family or a friend who could take that role. After the escape, when physicians outside of Mayo said that she was okay to leave the hospital and the cops called off their chase, the woman went home to her family and appears to have thrived. Are you going to believe Mayo or the woman who is alive, attending school, and not as bad off as Mayo would have you believe? It is as if Mayo wanted to choose the nuclear option in dealing with a difficulty mama.
Click to expand...
Yeah it sounds like Mom was a pain in the rear but Mayo didn't really seem to handle it in a logical manner. She's 18 and should be able to make her own decisions unless stripped of capacity in specific instances (usually only applied to specific times and decisions). Was she stripped of capacity to request a transfer? Regardless, why wouldn't they consider it? It's clear they had lost a therapeutic relationship with the patient and the family.

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xffan624 said:
Yeah it sounds like Mom was a pain in the rear but Mayo didn't really seem to handle it in a logical manner. She's 18 and should be able to make her own decisions unless stripped of capacity in specific instances (usually only applied to specific times and decisions). Was she stripped of capacity to request a transfer? Regardless, why wouldn't they consider it? It's clear they had lost a therapeutic relationship with the patient and the family.

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Click to expand...

It seemed to me that they wanted to punish the family or use this as a stick.
 
LizzyM said:
If you follow the story through , though, you find that Mayo could not get a judge to give Mayo guardianship. Furthermore, while they were asking for guardianship, the woman was making her own decisions so that the judge asked, "who is making the decisions now?" and they replied, "she is". Huh?? And, typically, when assigning guardianship, the preference is for someone who knows and loves the person who lacks decision making capacity. There were plenty of people to choose from and the judge, if they were going to entertain granting someone guardianship, would have first asked if there was anyone in the family or a friend who could take that role. After the escape, when physicians outside of Mayo said that she was okay to leave the hospital and the cops called off their chase, the woman went home to her family and appears to have thrived. Are you going to believe Mayo or the woman who is alive, attending school, and not as bad off as Mayo would have you believe? It is as if Mayo wanted to choose the nuclear option in dealing with a difficulty mama.
Click to expand...
This spiralling out of control is how nations have gone to war over trivialities!
 
LizzyM said:
It seemed to me that they wanted to punish the family or use this as a stick.
Click to expand...
In medical school, we had a very difficult relative and a critically ill child. We did our best but it was clear he did not trust us and there was too much ill will between us and the family. We offered transfer multiple times until they finally accepted it. He died at the transfer hospital (one of the best hospitals in the country for kids) several weeks later, but at least we felt we did our best.

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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I tried to find an unbiased news source and just gave up. Now I live in blissful ignorance.
Click to expand...

As odd as it sounds Aljazeera English has more objective takes on news than those other 2. I know they're reputation as associated with terrorism but the few times I watched them it wasn't too bad.
 
getdown said:
As odd as it sounds Aljazeera English has more objective takes on news than those other 2. I know they're reputation as associated with terrorism but the few times I watched them it wasn't too bad.
Click to expand...
Yeah I actually saw a couple pretty unbiased stories from them too actually.
 
getdown said:
As odd as it sounds Aljazeera English has more objective takes on news than those other 2. I know they're reputation as associated with terrorism but the few times I watched them it wasn't too bad.
Click to expand...
I tend to listen to BBC and Aljazeera. I am an NPR person. If I want deeper stories, I stay away from television news entirely. It is only good for reading the ticker for updates. I want news without opinion.
 
Interesting that Minnesota Public Radio is reporting that they banned mother because she was abusive to daughter, and that her five younger children were removed from the home after this incident due to neglect, physical abuse. The mother tested positive for meth. I imagine she really was a terror to hospital staff.
 
raiderette said:
Interesting that Minnesota Public Radio is reporting that they banned mother because she was abusive to daughter, and that her five younger children were removed from the home after this incident due to neglect, physical abuse. The mother tested positive for meth. I imagine she really was a terror to hospital staff.
Click to expand...

Lots of things the CNN reporters knew but chose not to include in their story. I guess because it didn’t go with the version of events that the family and CNN wanted to sell - with mayo being made out as the big evil hospital trying to take someone’s rights away and make them a prisoner

Mayo made public this letter to CNN yesterday which includes a lot more information

Mayo Clinic responds to false, sensational CNN story

https://cdn.prod-carehubs.net/n1/802899ec472ea3d8/uploads/2018/08/CNN-Letter-08-15-2018_FINAL.pdf

“Elizabeth and John chose to disregard and not investigate key facts that were shared with them:
• The role of the biological father in making care decisions for his daughter during her hospital stay when the mother was unavailable
• Allegations of the mother’s abuse of the patient.
• Mayo reported suspected abuse of the patient, a vulnerable adult, to the County as part of our statutory reporting requirement; and reported again when the patient was removed from the hospital without a safe discharge plan.
• Mayo never sought to be appointed as a guardian or make decisions for the patient; instead, Mayo notified the County of the patient’s vulnerable adult status and asked for assistance in identifying decision-maker.
• Mayo never denied a request from the family to transfer the patient to a different facility.
• Mayo did not arbitrarily remove the mother from the hospital; instead she was removed after she
exhibited escalating disruptive and aggressive behavior that interfered with the care of her daughter and resulted in multiple staff members reporting fear for their safety. A team of Mayo staff members also met with the mother and stepfather to explain why she was removed and they expressed understanding.
• Our care team provided appropriate pain management according to the pain needs of the patient and was concerned when the mother requested opioids for her daughter so that the mother could get some sleep.”
 
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thenucleusaccumbens said:
Lots of things the CNN reporters knew but chose not to include in their story. I guess because it didn’t go with the version of events that the family and CNN wanted to sell - with mayo being made out as the big evil hospital trying to take someone’s rights away and make them a prisoner

Mayo made public this letter to CNN yesterday which includes a lot more information

Mayo Clinic responds to false, sensational CNN story

https://cdn.prod-carehubs.net/n1/802899ec472ea3d8/uploads/2018/08/CNN-Letter-08-15-2018_FINAL.pdf

“Elizabeth and John chose to disregard and not investigate key facts that were shared with them:
• The role of the biological father in making care decisions for his daughter during her hospital stay when the mother was unavailable
• Allegations of the mother’s abuse of the patient.
• Mayo reported suspected abuse of the patient, a vulnerable adult, to the County as part of our statutory reporting requirement; and reported again when the patient was removed from the hospital without a safe discharge plan.
• Mayo never sought to be appointed as a guardian or make decisions for the patient; instead, Mayo notified the County of the patient’s vulnerable adult status and asked for assistance in identifying decision-maker.
• Mayo never denied a request from the family to transfer the patient to a different facility.
• Mayo did not arbitrarily remove the mother from the hospital; instead she was removed after she
exhibited escalating disruptive and aggressive behavior that interfered with the care of her daughter and resulted in multiple staff members reporting fear for their safety. A team of Mayo staff members also met with the mother and stepfather to explain why she was removed and they expressed understanding.
• Our care team provided appropriate pain management according to the pain needs of the patient and was concerned when the mother requested opioids for her daughter so that the mother could get some sleep.”
Click to expand...
This is why I have trust issues.
 
I figured that was the case from the start. Some reading between the lines tells you this parent is a control freak. I would definitely trust the 2 doctors and 4 nursing staff that had to be replaced over a one-sided POV. This reporting should be held to the same level as abuse of first amendment rights.

Especially concerning:
  • The reporters’ firm commitment to a pre-determined narrative despite contrary facts
  • Contacting direct patient care staff with veiled threats and asking them to breach confidentiality in order to corroborate information. This would be a potential legal breach of the patient’s confidentiality for them to do so.
  • Unwavering faith in the patient’s mother’s viewpoint and prioritizing pursuit of a story over the well-being of a vulnerable adult.
"Trust in journalism is unfortunately at a pivotal point in American history. Your viewers and readers deserve strong, accurate reporting that demonstrates the highest level of journalistic integrity. In this situation, your team did not meet this standard. We hope you can raise it for future stories – your reporters, your organization and the public deserve it." - Mayo Clinic

Someone give the journalists some burn cream
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Interestingly, the article has disappeared on CNN's page, even in the health section. How convenient. Safe to say the only thing I'll be watching CNN for is Anthony Bourdain's last few episodes of Parts Unknown.
 
LizzyM said:
If you follow the story through , though, you find that Mayo could not get a judge to give Mayo guardianship. Furthermore, while they were asking for guardianship, the woman was making her own decisions so that the judge asked, "who is making the decisions now?" and they replied, "she is". Huh?? And, typically, when assigning guardianship, the preference is for someone who knows and loves the person who lacks decision making capacity. There were plenty of people to choose from and the judge, if they were going to entertain granting someone guardianship, would have first asked if there was anyone in the family or a friend who could take that role. After the escape, when physicians outside of Mayo said that she was okay to leave the hospital and the cops called off their chase, the woman went home to her family and appears to have thrived. Are you going to believe Mayo or the woman who is alive, attending school, and not as bad off as Mayo would have you believe? It is as if Mayo wanted to choose the nuclear option in dealing with a difficulty mama.
Click to expand...
Except the minor children have been removed from the custody of the same parent Mayo was worried about discharging a recently brain damage adult to. The biological father was asked to take over an declined. Therefore mayo had to go to court to try to settle the issue. Just because the complications they were concerned about didn't happen (though it is impossible to tell how her recovery might have been affected by the whole running across state lines and hiding instead of getting OT, PT, and regular follow up) doesn't mean they had no reason to be concerned.
 
I think what’s interesting is inpatient rehab and even more specifically brain injury are parts of the healthcare world very few are privy to.

As any inpatient physiatrist can tell you, these types of difficult situations are actually pretty par for the course in this world. Accordingly, I can see how it just seemed “another one of those situations,” but then things quickly escalated out of control.

While it still stands this is junk journalism (apparently the author is known for her “patient advocacy” pieces encouraging patients to lie about chest pain to get access to ER physicians), and recognizing hindsight is 20/20, it would’ve probably been beneficial to get the ethics board involved.

Would love to hear from other rehab docs in the inpatient BI world.
 
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