Nova Southeastern VS Michigan State

[srivatarun]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to make a decision between MSU-COM and Nova Southeastern and it just got harder. Here are my pros and cons, and why I like each school:

MSU - Pros:

1) Seems like it is the best DO school in the country - or at least top 5
2) 1/3 of the osteopathic residencies are in MI, and MSUCOM students rotate through these hospitals
3) Well structured rotations
4) Might do DO/PhD - pretty much come out debt - free.

MSU - Cons:

1) Location - Neither EL, Detroit, nor Macomb seem like 'the place to be.'
2) SUPER expensive - if I don't do DO/PhD, because I'm out of state.

Nova - Pros:
1) Awesome location
2) Relatively cheap, compared to other DO programs
3) Got a really positive vibe from the students when I interviewed
4) Rotations seem to be set up pretty well just like MSU COM

Nova - Cons:
1) Might miss the seasons ( I am from the DC area)
2) Reputation not as good as MSU COM

Now these are the pros and cons as I see them. My question(s) to any of you out there that might now better is(are):

1.) Reputation wise, how does Nova compare to MSU? If you were to 'rank' them, would they be in the same category?

2.) I have been told that Nova Southeastern sets up its rotations really well for its students - is this true? Or will I be running around trying to schedule rotations 3rd year?x

3.) Board score averages - both USMLE and COMLEX - for both schools...anyone know the averages?

Thanks in advance,
Tarun

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[Phil Dunphy]

I know MSU is #1 in Primary Care among D.O. schools and #7 among all med schools.

But I'd prefer you go to Nova so I can take your spot at MSU 😉

 

[StayOnTop]

NSU-Com, it's just too expensive at MSU OOS.

 

[JuliaJulia]

Man, if I got into MSU I wouldn't even have to think about it...it's known to be a top school.

 

[ILikeFood]

Man, if I got into MSU I wouldn't even have to think about it...it's known to be a top school.

Except that the out of state tuition is outrageous and you would be living in a city there that is not Ann Arbor.

 

[pucciola]

NOVA is a great school, don't get me wrong but MSU is better well known. Residency match for MSU has a boasting rate of 90% first choice.

But to be honest, if you don't have the OOS scholarship, the price tag with MSU is just too much. Go with NOVA otherwise.

PS. East Lansing IS the place to be

 

[pucciola]

Except that the out of state tuition is outrageous and you would be living in a city there that is not Ann Arbor.

Ann Arbor sucks. Who wants to live in that **** hole?

Haha jkjk

 

[ILikeFood]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to make a decision between MSU-COM and Nova Southeastern and it just got harder. Here are my pros and cons, and why I like each school:

MSU - Pros:

1) Seems like it is the best DO school in the country - or at least top 5
2) 1/3 of the osteopathic residencies are in MI, and MSUCOM students rotate through these hospitals
3) Well structured rotations
4) Might do DO/PhD - pretty much come out debt - free.

MSU - Cons:

1) Location - Neither EL, Detroit, nor Macomb seem like 'the place to be.'
2) SUPER expensive - if I don't do DO/PhD, because I'm out of state.

Nova - Pros:
1) Awesome location
2) Relatively cheap, compared to other DO programs
3) Got a really positive vibe from the students when I interviewed
4) Rotations seem to be set up pretty well just like MSU COM

Nova - Cons:
1) Might miss the seasons ( I am from the DC area)
2) Reputation not as good as MSU COM

Now these are the pros and cons as I see them. My question(s) to any of you out there that might now better is(are):

1.) Reputation wise, how does Nova compare to MSU? If you were to 'rank' them, would they be in the same category?

2.) I have been told that Nova Southeastern sets up its rotations really well for its students - is this true? Or will I be running around trying to schedule rotations 3rd year?x

3.) Board score averages - both USMLE and COMLEX - for both schools...anyone know the averages?

Thanks in advance,
Tarun

Around October of 2nd year, the clinical director sets up rotations informational meetings. He gives you a broad overview of the hospitals. Then there are hospital tours scheduled throughout the rest of the semester where you actually get to see where you will be working. Then there is a "rotations" dinner where current 3rd years tell you about their experiences. Then you rank the hospitals according to your preference and submit your list. Admin runs a list through a computer and you get your assigned hospital. There is a brief period of time where you can try to trade core hospitals with someone. But once the dust finally settles you will have all core rotations for 3/4th year worked out for you.

 

[ILikeFood]

And third year is ALL core, no electives

 

[Dr Fraggle]

As far as Nsu rotations, you are assigned a rotation hub based on a lottery. Ie you rank list all the sites and a computer program generates a random number for you and then matches you to a rotation hub site based on availability and your preference. Its like a mini match. I luckily got my first choice, but some get their last. However, there are no terrible sites. Some are more geared to certain specialties. Your rotations are set up around your hub. So if your site is broward general hospital, your individual rotation sites will be located in and around broward general. Some hub sites have more traveling involved than others. You will not have to arrange your own third year rotations. You WILL naturally have to arrange your fourth year elective rotations. The sites are all over Florida, with a few in other states. You will also have to do two months of mandatory rural med clerkships. You will have no choice as to where for one and you can chose the second. Unless you want the jail, then you can choose it. Best of luck with your choice.

 

[heroes31]

As far as Nsu rotations, you are assigned a rotation hub based on a lottery. Ie you rank list all the sites and a computer program generates a random number for you and then matches you to a rotation hub site based on availability and your preference. Its like a mini match. I luckily got my first choice, but some get their last. However, there are no terrible sites. Some are more geared to certain specialties. Your rotations are set up around your hub. So if your site is broward general hospital, your individual rotation sites will be located in and around broward general. Some hub sites have more traveling involved than others. You will not have to arrange your own third year rotations. You WILL naturally have to arrange your fourth year elective rotations. The sites are all over Florida, with a few in other states. You will also have to do two months of mandatory rural med clerkships. You will have no choice as to where for one and you can chose the second. Unless you want the jail, then you can choose it. Best of luck with your choice.

Where is the jail located and is this a popular choice for doing the rural rotation? Will I be able to easily get the jail rotation? I ask because I have a wife who would be working in the Miami/ FLL area and it would suck for me to have to live alone for 2 months out in the boondocks.

 

[Dr Fraggle]

I think the jail location is kinda near Orlando. Students have the option of living in a school owned trailer near the jail. But I know for sure that it will be too far away for you to drive from Miami/FLL every day. It is definitly out in the boonies. I don't think that it is a very popular site... but I could be wrong. You can request that you be placed near your rotation site and that works for some people. However, not everyone gets placed near their site. Some get placed quite far away and must move up there for the rotation. NSU is pretty non-appologetic about that. NSU does povide a small housing allowance if you have to go to rurals quite far away.

 

[srivatarun]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Definitely made my decision a little bit easier.

Last thing I want to bother you guys with - any idea about the reputation of Nova? Like assume MSU is #1 (i'm not saying it is, but say it is) - would Nova be # 5? # 10?

Thanks again,
taurn

 

[Everglide]

Students have the option of living in a school owned trailer near the jail.

wait... what? Unsure if serious....


Nova: Cheaper = win


Be sure to take into account the way each school teaches and delivers curriculum. If the costs were the same I would say go to MSU for sure, but the OOS tuition is brutal and something you cannot overlook.

 

[cliquesh]

Do you have an idea of what you want to do? If you want to do surgery, I'd maybe suggest going to MSU, simply because, as you mention, they have a ton of residencies (12 gen surgery and 9 ortho vs 1 gen and 2 ortho at NSU).

If you want to do anything other than surgery, then go to the cheapest school.

 

[srivatarun]

Everglide: thanks, you are right that I cannot overlook tuition...it is RIDICULOUS out of state.

Cliquesh: Yep, I am thinking about surgery. Either that or infectious diseases. I think you're right - because of all of the gen surgery, ortho surgery, ENT surgery, and even urology residencies that they have - I should not turn them down.

In terms of OOS tuition, there are a bunch of scholarships I am going to apply to, I am going to do the income-based repayment stuff, and well - my mom pointed out - that NOVA is 40 K, MSU is 70 K, but living and stuff is probably going to be about 5K cheaper in E. Lansing, so in the end, MSU is 25 K more, and over four years, 100K more. But if I pay that off over 20 or even 10 years, it's definitely worth the investment in my education.

Thanks for all of your help everyone, I really appreciate it.

 

[Everglide]

In terms of OOS tuition, there are a bunch of scholarships I am going to apply to, I am going to do the income-based repayment stuff, and well - my mom pointed out - that NOVA is 40 K, MSU is 70 K, but living and stuff is probably going to be about 5K cheaper in E. Lansing, so in the end, MSU is 25 K more, and over four years, 100K more. But if I pay that off over 20 or even 10 years, it's definitely worth the investment in my education.

Thanks for all of your help everyone, I really appreciate it.

just some facts fyi: tuition isn't 70k, CoA is 70k. Average OOS MSUCOM student (ones that actually took loans, ie: not military) graduated with 248k principle debt - which includes undergrad debt. If you're interested in osteo surgical specialties, going to MSU would help a lot with the ability to rotate easily. Though it's still going to be more expensive than Nova.

I hope that helps you with your tough decisions. Good luck.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

just some facts fyi: tuition isn't 70k, CoA is 70k. Average OOS MSUCOM student (ones that actually took loans, ie: not military) graduated with 248k principle debt - which includes undergrad debt. If you're interested in osteo surgical specialties, going to MSU would help a lot with the ability to rotate easily. Though it's still going to be more expensive than Nova.

I hope that helps you with your tough decisions. Good luck.

Are you an OOS going to MSU? Everything I find on this school points to 70k=tuition as a non resident.

 

[PlayUltimate15]

Are you an OOS going to MSU? Everything I find on this school points to 70k=tuition as a non resident.

I recently attended an "interview day" at MSU for those students who have already been accepted. Tuition at MSU is slightly more complicated when comparing to other schools because they have a summer semester as well as fall/spring. Here is some of the info I recieved directly from the horses mouth:

09-10 Tuition and Fees
IS (2 semesters) = $21,462
IS (3 semesters) = $32,193
OOS (2 semesters) = $46,440
OOS (3 semesters) = $69,660

I also have an itemized table for estimated costs throughout all 4 years. Let me know if you'd like me to scan it and upload it! Good luck with making this choice.

 

[Big Chips]

I know MSU is #1 in Primary Care among D.O. schools and #7 among all med schools.

I believe that #7 is their allopathic school. MSU has two med schools: allopathic and osteopathic.

 

[Big Chips]

Holy crap, I stand corrected: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...duate-schools/top-medical-schools/items/04135

Is this right? Their COM ranks over their allopathic?

Cool...

 

[Longshanks]

Holy crap, I stand corrected: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...duate-schools/top-medical-schools/items/04135

Is this right? Their COM ranks over their allopathic?

Cool...

US World News rankings are total BS, and don't really tell you much about the school. The primary care rankings just tell you that a greater proportion of graduate went into the primary care. The research ranking tells you how much NIH money the school brought in on grants and how strongly peer institutions rated their research credentials. I wouldn't read much into it, but yes MSU DO definitely has more primary care graduates than MSU MD - which was initially one of the reasons in founding the school and the state legislator supporting it.

 

[cliquesh]

US World News rankings are total BS, and don't really tell you much about the school. The primary care rankings just tell you that a greater proportion of graduate went into the primary care. The research ranking tells you how much NIH money the school brought in on grants and how strongly peer institutions rated their research credentials. I wouldn't read much into it, but yes MSU DO definitely has more primary care graduates than MSU MD - which was initially one of the reasons in founding the school and the state legislator supporting it.

He is correct.

 

[Gibtone]

I'm in a pretty similar situation as the OP except i'm an MI resident... I have no idea what to do either. COA doesn't seem to be a HUGE difference when it's broken down between the schools for my scenario but like it was said earlier, its hard to compare COA of MSU-COM with NOVA at first glance because MSU has a year round schedule. I also want to go into surgery but the main thing that's holding me back as of right now from MSU is the thought of staying in MI for the next 4 or most likely 8 years...or really my whole life in MI, south florida isn't as easy to turn down as I was hoping and I hate the fact that NOVA's location is awsome compared to southeast MI from what I saw on my visits down there.

 

[SFO-IST]

Srivatarun,

I think I interviewed with you, and I wanted to remind you of what the beach, 20min. away was like the day we interviewed. For full disclosure, I ended up choosing another school, but for NSU vs. MSU, there are certain environmental factors that need to be taken into consideration - and weighted appropriately. All 20 min. from school:

Best of luck with your decision!

 

[zac16125]

1.) Reputation wise, how does Nova compare to MSU? If you were to 'rank' them, would they be in the same category?

2.) I have been told that Nova Southeastern sets up its rotations really well for its students - is this true? Or will I be running around trying to schedule rotations 3rd year?x

3.) Board score averages - both USMLE and COMLEX - for both schools...anyone know the averages?

Thanks in advance,
Tarun

1)In what way are you worried about reputation? In the sense that you think the reputation of the school will land you a residency? If thats the case I would throw that idea out the door. I've talked to a few program director's and not one ever mentioned "school attended" as something they look for in an applicant. The only places that may actually look, Hopkins, Ivy League, etc. probably wouldn't want to see a DO school anyways, and I really doubt other institutions would care. That being said you may be at an advantage if you are an MSU graduate and want an MSU residency, but I would say thats more due to familiarity with you as an applicant than reputation of the school.

2) I am doing my rotations at one of the NOVA hospital sites and yes NOVA sets up all your rotations for you. I think you pick your site and they do the rest. The NOVA students have to do some BS rotations though and don't get any electives 3rd year, which is something to think about.

3) I don't know anyone who goes to MSU, but I do know a bunch of people who went to NOVA, some liked it some hated it. I know from what I've heard (and its all hear say I have no proof of this),namely low step 1 scores, mandatory lectures all day, testing schedule,etc that I would never go to NOVA. Thats just me though.

 

[srivatarun]

Srivatarun,

I think I interviewed with you, and I wanted to remind you of what the beach, 20min. away was like the day we interviewed. For full disclosure, I ended up choosing another school, but for NSU vs. MSU, there are certain environmental factors that need to be taken into consideration - and weighted appropriately. All 20 min. from school:



Best of luck with your decision!

Hey man, I'm glad I didn't see your post before I made my decision! Would have sent me back to square one. I decided on MSU-COM - what about you??

1)In what way are you worried about reputation? In the sense that you think the reputation of the school will land you a residency? If thats the case I would throw that idea out the door. I've talked to a few program director's and not one ever mentioned "school attended" as something they look for in an applicant. The only places that may actually look, Hopkins, Ivy League, etc. probably wouldn't want to see a DO school anyways, and I really doubt other institutions would care. That being said you may be at an advantage if you are an MSU graduate and want an MSU residency, but I would say thats more due to familiarity with you as an applicant than reputation of the school.

Thanks for the info, Zac, that helps. However, I do think that some competitive residency programs (DO) would consider the reputation of the medical school. Medicine, like any other profession, has its share of good old boys clubs, and if two applicants have similar COMLEX scores and grades and comparable experiences, I think the reputation of the medical school would play a factor.

That being said, I was considering reputation more because reputable DO programs tend to have better resources, more experienced faculty, well set up rotation sites, and for someone who might pursue a career in academia, stronger research opportunities.

After doing some research, I found that Michigan has several ENT, Ortho, Derm, and other competitive residency programs as well as other medicine programs. Since I want to keep all of my options open, I thought a school that has residency programs for all of these specialties would be the best match for me.

 

[pucciola]

Reputation does matter and it definitely matters when it comes to residency. Anyone else tells you otherwise is just trying to be politically correct.

Does beaches matter when a school has better reputation and greater network? No, that's ridiculous. Good choice with MSU.

 

[cliquesh]

1)In what way are you worried about reputation? In the sense that you think the reputation of the school will land you a residency? If thats the case I would throw that idea out the door. I've talked to a few program director's and not one ever mentioned "school attended" as something they look for in an applicant.

The reputation of your school matters when applying to residencies. This applies to all applicants, DOs and MDs.

 

[newno55]

Hi everyone. Great discussion so far.

I was about to start a similar thread but I'll try to piggy back off this one.

My question is specifically regarding a Canadian applicant. I've been accepted to both MSUCOM and NOVA. While both schools are fairly "Canadian friendly", does anyone have any insight regarding which school would be better to attend given my goal is to return to Canada for residency? Since MSU started a Canadian initiative (amongst other reasons), I'm leaning towards MSU. I also know how new this program is, so there is no previous data to go off of!! Haha.

Been trying to get a hold of staff at MSU, but they have been really hard to get a hold of.

I understand there are a few more regulatory loopholes etc. and while I'm a US citizen as well, coming back home and to family is what I want.

 

[FutureDoctorrrr]

Here is my opinion which is limited to my knowledge:

Any two schools will give you a very similar education...very similar knowledge...very similar professors...very similar board prep....

Their OPTI's are what will differ. In this case, MSU OPTI IS A BEAST
MSU OPTI is FAR FAR FAR superior to NSU's OPTI

The opportunities you will get via MSU's OPTI will be exponentially greater.

I would go to MSU in a second.

MSU OPTI houses multiple programs in the following disciplines

Anesthesiology
Anesthesiology - Pain Management
Cardiology
Child Psychiatry
Clinical Cardiac Electrophysiology
Critical Care Medicine
Dermatology
Diagnostic Radiology
Emergency Medicine
Emergency Medicine/Family Medicine
Emergency Medicine/Internal Medicine
Endocrinology
Family Medicine
Gastroenterology
General Surgery
General Vascular Surgery
Geriatrics- Internal Medicine
Geriatrics-FP
Hematology/Oncology
Infectious Diseases
Integrated Family Practice/NMM
Internal Medicine
Interventional Cardiology
Maternal Fetal Medicine
Micrographic Surgery
Musculoskeletal Oncology
Nephrology
Neurological Surgery
Neurology
Neuromusculoskeletal Medicine
Neuromusculoskeletal Medicine + 1
Obstetrics and Gynecological Surgery
Ophthalmology
Orthopedic Surgery
Otolaryngic Allergy
Otolaryngology/Facial Plastic Surgery
Pediatrics
Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation
Plastic And Reconstructive Surgery
Psychiatry
Pulmonary Diseases
Pulmonary/Critical Care
Rheumatology
Spine Surgery
Sports Medicine
Traditional Rotating Internship
Urological Surgery


NSU OPTI houses the following programs

Dermatology (3 separate programs)
Internal Medicine (6 separate programs; it also houses some Endocrinology/Cardiology/GI/Interventional Cardio/Geriatrics fellowships)
Orthopedic Surgery (2 separate programs)
Pediatrics (3 separate programs)
General Surgery
Anesthesiology (2 separate programs)
Psychiatry (2 separate programs)
Emergency Medicine (2 separate programs)
Opthalmology
Neurology
Diagnostic Radiology
Family Practice (I know no one cares how many....but there are 7 programs...lol)

 

[FutureDoctorrrr]

Msu wins....hands down....no competition....

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Msu wins....hands down....no competition....

i would agree, but not in the case of MSU's OOS tuition.

OP- I didn't read most of the posts, and yes MSU has more programs, but the tuition is almost double NSUs. That is insane. If you can snag one of those OOS scholarships that would drop it down to IS tuition rate, I would go MSU, but without it, there is way in hell MSU could offer anything that is almost twice as good as any other school, let alone everything.

 

[newno55]

i would agree, but not in the case of MSU's OOS tuition.

OP- I didn't read most of the posts, and yes MSU has more programs, but the tuition is almost double NSUs. That is insane. If you can snag one of those OOS scholarships that would drop it down to IS tuition rate, I would go MSU, but without it, there is way in hell MSU could offer anything that is almost twice as good as any other school, let alone everything.

I know... MSU's tuition is a little outrageous. I will be recieving the Canadian Student Scholarship... so that at least helps.

Thanks for the tips guys/ girls. I'm pretty sure I will be sticking with MSU 👍

 

[FrkyBgStok]

since you are a canadian, i would say definitely go with MSU. they seem to be working really hard to get DOs into canada more. And MSU has an allo program and being that you have to do a ACGME residency (based on what I have read on the forums, but I am not certain) to practice in Canada, MSU would overall be a better choice.

 

[newno55]

since you are a canadian, i would say definitely go with MSU. they seem to be working really hard to get DOs into canada more. And MSU has an allo program and being that you have to do a ACGME residency (based on what I have read on the forums, but I am not certain) to practice in Canada, MSU would overall be a better choice.

Yes yes, you need to have completed an ACGME residency to practice in Canada 🙂 (also from what I've read).

Talked to Dr. Falls, and he actually told me many of the residency positions that students get into after studying at MSUCOM are actually dual acredited! Still going to really try to come home for residency, that is really important to me 🙂

 

[p1acebo]

MSU, like a boss.

 

[DrMediterranean]

MSU, like a boss.

Like a DOS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_za-p_eu4Dk

 

[drgioiadds]

This one is my favourite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUR8C7ZCFfk