Official 2011-2012 IM "How To Rank" Thread

[jdh71]

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Real quick, just wanted to get some quick feedback about my top two choices at the moment. I'm between UTSW and mayo rochester. They're different programs and I liked them both almost equally, but for different reasons. I think I would be a lot more sold on UTSW if it weren't for the almost half a year of ICU that could conceivably be required intern year, which does worry me slightly. It seemed like mayo residents published more and could possibly be a bit more competitive for future specialties? Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Sounds to me like you've already answered your own question. You have mentioned more negatives in your mind of one place and more positives in your mind of the other.

 

[jdh71]

So I'm slowly finishing up my final list, just wanted to get some thoughts. Interested in cards. I have a general gut feeling of most places, I just need help regarding if there is any gap in academic reputation within my list . Taking location, family and gut feeling into place my list is as follows:

1.Indiana
2.Iowa
3.VCU
4.UIC
5.Loyola
6.U. Cincinnati

7-11....

Would all these be considered in the same tier? I know they are really similar and I plan on going with my gut just curious what the consensus on academic reputation was between these institutions. Thank you.

Looks fine to me.

 

[jdh71]

I have an idea with my top 2 choices but need help with the following

UCLA, UCSD, Yale, Yale PC, Vandy, Wash U, BIDMC, Pitt, UVA, Mayo, Maryland, Bayview, Jefferson

interested in GI

Thanks!

WashU = Vandy
BID = Yale = Mayo = UCLA
UVA = Pitt = UCSD
Maryland = Yale PC
Bayview = Jeff

 

[jdh71]

I have some sort of idea, but would like your opinion. Future goals GI or Pulm/CC.

UCSF
Stanford
Penn
Duke
BWH
MGH
Cornell
Vandy
WashU

 

[jdh71]

Interested in academics, likely fellowship (not cards, but anything else is fair game).

Mostly on academic strength, how would you rank the following (I have an idea how the top half looks, but no idea on the bottom half):

Case
Loyola
Temple
Minn
New Mexico
Louisville
MCW
Vermont
Kaiser SC
Providence St. Vincent

Thanks!

Minn
Vermont = Case
Loyola = Temple = MCW = Louisville = New Mexico
rest

 

[adagio]

rofl

 

[jdh71]

Interests are GI or Cards or Heme/Onc and perhaps Academic medicine -(I think I wanna be a program chairman.).

Houston native and would love to stay, but for career moves, will move. (Return to Texas heart Cards?)

Not too big on what city I'm in except that NYC seems toooo big and save me from too much social work.

okay, Im pretty sold on my top 1 and 2.

1,2 -X

Rank :
Mayo - Rochester
UPenn
UTSW
Columbia
Wash U
Vandy
OHSU
Baylor
Cornell
UT- Houston
BID (Harvard)

since it is a very real possibility I will get my 3rd, how does UTSW compare to the above?

Also, I work when I have to but I'm really not looking to be worked to death, especially if I could go to a better and more "chill" place.

Any well grounded advice is appreciated.😕

Generally that list looks fine for anything you'd want to do. UTSW isn't going to be "chill", but if you liked it, you liked it. The more "chill" spots on your list are OHSU and BID (plus Mayo, but you've already got that pencilled in).

 

[jdh71]

Hi guys, i have finally finished my interview season and am so glad that I am done. I need some help figuring out my top 8. I would like a city but am willing to forgo that for better career opportunities/fellowship match. I am interested in cards/gi. Here is what I thought so far
1. Cornell (although underwhelmed by interview day) vs Michigan
3. NU vs Washu vs Pitt
6. NYU
7. UVA vs Mayo

As you can tell I am really undecided. if anyone has any input i would really appreciate it.

Mich > Cornell
WashU > the rest
Mayo > UVA (unless asschester is too much to take)

 

[jdh71]

rofl

What?

People show up here and basically list every single top 10 program and then ask how to rank. It doesn't matter - things will be FINE at any top 10 program. Some people stress too many details. The people I think we can kind of help are people who's program list kind of runs the lower half of the upper tier to the mid tier.

 

[adagio]

What?

People show up here and basically list every single top 10 program and then ask how to rank. It doesn't matter - things will be FINE at any top 10 program. Some people stress too many details. The people I think we can kind of help are people who's program list kind of runs the lower half of the upper tier to the mid tier.

I was rofling because you had the exact same face I had when I read that list .. only mine was more of a 😵

 

[nocturnal55]

looking at nyu, emory, bcm, pitt, usc, uic, rush

factors of importance:
1) fun city
2) work life balance (hoping to actually enjoy the aforementioned fun city)
3) program with strong fellowship matches
4) reputation of program

thanks for any input!

the impression i got was that in terms of reputation, nyu=emory=bcm=pitt...is this a fair assessment?

 

[armstud]

Mich > Cornell
WashU > the rest
Mayo > UVA (unless asschester is too much to take)

would you put washu above michigan?

 

[kraken]

Was thinking nephrology vs. cards, would like the option to end up doing fellowship in the northeast. thoughts on cornell vs. wisconsin and how best to rank 3-10.

1/2:
Cornell vs. Wisconsin

3-10:
Case
UF
Temple
Rochester
BU
Maryland
Dartmouth
VCU

 

[drrockstar140]

.

 

[Space Wrangler]

Duke vs UW

Undecided about future plans - probably CC or academic hospitalist. I like both programs a lot. Seattle is probably a cooler location, but Duke residents seem to have their way fellowship-wise. Thoughts?

 

[drrockstar140]

What?

People show up here and basically list every single top 10 program and then ask how to rank. It doesn't matter - things will be FINE at any top 10 program. Some people stress too many details. The people I think we can kind of help are people who's program list kind of runs the lower half of the upper tier to the mid tier.

Somewhat off topic....but which tier would you assign Mayo-Arizona?

 

[obiwan]

Real quick, just wanted to get some quick feedback about my top two choices at the moment. I'm between UTSW and mayo rochester. They're different programs and I liked them both almost equally, but for different reasons. I think I would be a lot more sold on UTSW if it weren't for the almost half a year of ICU that could conceivably be required intern year, which does worry me slightly. It seemed like mayo residents published more and could possibly be a bit more competitive for future specialties? Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

I would beg to differ that Mayo residents are more competitive that UTSW residents for fellowship all things being equal.

 

[justanotherapp]

Interested in cardiology.
Would like to be in a big city (NYC, Chicago, LA). Program with good work/life balance.
Any input appreciated, thank you!

University of washington
UPitt
Cornell
NYU
Northwestern
University of Chicago
Cedars-Sinai
Yale
Jefferson
Boston University
Dartmouth

anyone?

 

[gold&black2005]

Ignoring geography (since you seemed to do that too) and thinking only about program strength:

Vandy
WU
Mayo
--------
BIDMC
Pitt
Yale
UCLA
UCSD
UVA
--------
Yale PC
Maryland
Bayview
--------
Jefferson

Cut out UCSD and UVA, merge the top two groups - otherwise agree

 

[gold&black2005]

anyone?

If balance equals cush ...
NW
Cedars
Everywhere else

(note - not how i'd rank for cards, even with cities in mind, otherwise - just separating out as requested)

 

[gold&black2005]

Duke vs UW

Undecided about future plans - probably CC or hUacademic hospitalist. I like both programs a lot. Seattle is probably a cooler location, but Duke residents seem to have their way fellowship-wise. Thoughts?

UW ain't gonna hurt for either career homie - rank with your gut

 

[jdh71]

looking at nyu, emory, bcm, pitt, usc, uic, rush

factors of importance:
1) fun city
2) work life balance (hoping to actually enjoy the aforementioned fun city)
3) program with strong fellowship matches
4) reputation of program

thanks for any input!

the impression i got was that in terms of reputation, nyu=emory=bcm=pitt...is this a fair assessment?

Based on your factors, I'm having a hard time putting together a list. Stronger academic programs tend to work you a little harder. You should have enough free time at all of those programs to be able to see the city. Rank based on how you liked the program.

 

[jdh71]

would you put washu above michigan?

Eh. They're pretty neck and neck. Depends on the day you catch me maybe.

But I'd probably give WashU the edge.

 

[jdh71]

Was thinking nephrology vs. cards, would like the option to end up doing fellowship in the northeast. thoughts on cornell vs. wisconsin and how best to rank 3-10.

1/2:
Cornell vs. Wisconsin

3-10:
Case
UF
Temple
Rochester
BU
Maryland
Dartmouth
VCU

Cornell has the bigger academic name IMO, easily. Also easier to get back to the NE for fellowship. Wisconsin just has such a nice program though . . . it might come down to city vs very urbane college town

Dartmouth
Maryland
VCU
Case = BU = Roch
UF
Temple

 

[jdh71]

Duke vs UW

Undecided about future plans - probably CC or academic hospitalist. I like both programs a lot. Seattle is probably a cooler location, but Duke residents seem to have their way fellowship-wise. Thoughts?

You'll have your way coming out of UW too, especially for CC or Pulm/CC

 

[jdh71]

Somewhat off topic....but which tier would you assign Mayo-Arizona?

Mid-tier

 

[RonPaul]

Ignoring geography (since you seemed to do that too) and thinking only about program strength:

Vandy
WU
Mayo
--------
BIDMC
Pitt
Yale
UCLA
UCSD
UVA
--------
Yale PC
Maryland
Bayview
--------
Jefferson

is jeff way below these? it seemed like a nice program with a good match list (obviously isn't penn or hopkins) but seemed like a strong program

 

[gutonc]

is jeff way below these? it seemed like a nice program with a good match list (obviously isn't penn or hopkins) but seemed like a strong program

To quote jdh, "this is why it's your rank list" (although it's somebody else's, not yours per se).

I guess you could move it up with Bayview/UMD but I wouldn't rank it higher than that.

 

[nocturnal55]

Based on your factors, I'm having a hard time putting together a list. Stronger academic programs tend to work you a little harder. You should have enough free time at all of those programs to be able to see the city. Rank based on how you liked the program.

which of the programs on the list (bcm, pitt, emory, rush, nyu, uic, usc) would you classify as the stronger academic ones?

thanks so much for your input jdh71!

 

[DrVanNostran]

What?

People show up here and basically list every single top 10 program and then ask how to rank. It doesn't matter - things will be FINE at any top 10 program. Some people stress too many details. The people I think we can kind of help are people who's program list kind of runs the lower half of the upper tier to the mid tier.

After interviewing at these places, I realized that any of these programs will serve my personal goals. I may not end up at MGH for a fellowship, but I could be competitive for any fellowship provided I work hard.

P.S. Thanks for the words of advice on UIC/Rush.

My Top 5 keeps shifting around with discussions with the wife.

Rush, UIC, UC-Northshore, Mayo, Baylor, UCI, OHSU are all big winners for me. After looking at things more, I'm not quite sure if I want to be in a college town. Wisconsin's program is amazing, but I'm not sure how it will factor in my list.

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a community program mixed into their upper 1/2 of ranks?

 

[DrVanNostran]

which of the programs on the list (bcm, pitt, emory, rush, nyu, uic, usc) would you classify as the stronger academic ones?

thanks so much for your input jdh71!

Pitt is a beast these days. If I was ranking this list soley based on academics I would have:

Pitt
Emory=Baylor
NYU=USC=UIC=Rush

 

[DrVanNostran]

is jeff way below these? it seemed like a nice program with a good match list (obviously isn't penn or hopkins) but seemed like a strong program

Do you have strong ties to Philly? If not, you have a really nice set of interviews. I would probably keep them pretty low with your list.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Interests are GI or Cards or Heme/Onc and perhaps Academic medicine -(I think I wanna be a program chairman.).

Houston native and would love to stay, but for career moves, will move. (Return to Texas heart Cards?)

Rank :
Mayo - Rochester
UPenn
UTSW
Columbia
Wash U
Vandy
OHSU
Baylor
Cornell
UT- Houston
BID (Harvard)

since it is a very real possibility I will get my 3rd, how does UTSW compare to the above?

Also, I work when I have to but I'm really not looking to be worked to death, especially if I could go to a better and more "chill" place.

Any well grounded advice is appreciated.😕

I would beg to differ that Mayo residents are more competitive that UTSW residents for fellowship all things being equal.

I agree with obiwan. I was very impressed with the clinical training of UTSW- perhaps this is because if closely paralells the program I chose and always has. As an aside, a family member of mine did his IM training there and then Cards at Duke. He felt his time at UTSW was the thing that made him a strong clinician (not that duke is a slouch). UTSW has a very strong rep in the south. I think that the reason that you don't see as many matches to the NE from UTSW is because those that go there choose to stay in the south.

I was somewhat less impressed with BIDMC and the training there- not that it is bad in anyway but compared to many on that list, it pales in comparison. You have a ton of great programs in that list.

I'd rank
Top: Columbia, Penn, UTSW, WashU Vandy
Next- Cornell, BIDMC, OHSU, Mayo-R
Next- Baylor (baylor probably could also go in the middle group), UTH

 

[36639119]

So I am making my rank list soon and am extremely confused as of right now and could use a little advice. I'm prolly interested in cards/GI so I know name matters a lot, but I definitely want a good work/life balance. However, I also love NYC and have seen that this city may not be too conducive to this, esp with the ancillary services. Here is my list of programs (in no particular order).

NYU
Emory
UIC
Rush
Montefiore (NYC)
NorthShore LIJ (NYC)
BU
GW
Jefferson
Brown
Robert Wood (NJ)
Maryland

Maybe some categories or leagues would be appreciated? Not a big fan of Baltimore at all, but everybody on here seems to love their program. Also I dunno if I'd move to Chicago, but the programs (esp Rush) were very nice. If I did go to Chicago I'd prolly move east for fellowship.. Thanks for any help!

 

[mgboilerup]

Need opinions on ranking. I'm a carib grad. Mostly all midwest program. No particular order.
Cleveland clinic
Wright State
Wayne state/DMC
Henry Ford
St .John's (detroit)
St. Joseph Mercy (ann arbor)
West Suburban (chicago)
IU Ball memorial (muncie, IN)
University of south florida
St. Vincent (indianapolis)
Jewish Hospital (cincinnati)

Thank you for any opinions

 

[jdh71]

which of the programs on the list (bcm, pitt, emory, rush, nyu, uic, usc) would you classify as the stronger academic ones?

thanks so much for your input jdh71!

Maybe like this:
Emory
Pitt
BCM
NYU
USC
Rush = UIC

 

[nocturnal55]

Pitt is a beast these days. If I was ranking this list soley based on academics I would have:

Pitt
Emory=Baylor
NYU=USC=UIC=Rush

totally agree that pitt is a beast and definitely seems to have a manageable residency schedule...just not sure about living there for 3-6 years, would definitely have to hide my true football affiliations to bond with the patients. definitely glad i wasn't interviewing there when the steelers lost in the playoffs LOL

Maybe like this:
Emory
Pitt
BCM
NYU
USC
Rush = UIC

hmm emory=pitt=bcm in terms of medschool reputations. does nyu just not get as much respect as emory/pitt/bcm in terms of its IM program reputation?

 

[jdh71]

hmm emory=pitt=bcm in terms of medschool reputations. does nyu just not get as much respect as emory/pitt/bcm in terms of its IM program reputation?

Not as an academic spot, within the context of the greater general gestalt, no.

Too often people seem to hear that if you don't put a program at the top of some list it equals "that place sucks". NYU is a great place. If you're forcing me to organize them, that's how I would.

You make your list. 😉

 

[DrVanNostran]

totally agree that pitt is a beast and definitely seems to have a manageable residency schedule...just not sure about living there for 3-6 years, would definitely have to hide my true football affiliations to bond with the patients. definitely glad i wasn't interviewing there when the steelers lost in the playoffs LOL



hmm emory=pitt=bcm in terms of medschool reputations. does nyu just not get as much respect as emory/pitt/bcm in terms of its IM program reputation?

I'm not sure why NYU doesn't get the recognition. But, they seem to be a mixed bag. Some people love it, others hate. Plus the NY stigma is that residents work a lot harder than other places. Out of all your places, I think Pitt has the best mix from what I hear. Great reputation, good schedule, solid placement, and a decent city. Obviously not NY or Chicago, but they have a lively city. I personally think Pitt is a clear number 1 on your list. Number 2=NYU Vs Emory.

 

[gutonc]

Plus the NY stigma is that residents work a lot harder than other places.

It's not a stigma...it's a reality. And NYU is the king of that. Not that it's the NYC program where residents get scutted the most (there are a lot of other HHC programs where the residents get worked harder) but, of the "name" programs in NYC, NYU stands out as the one with the least support and most scut.

That all said, you will do yourself no disservice if you wind up there. It's a solid program with excellent fellowship and research opportunities and a name that will take you places. Just make sure you bring your clogs with the handles on them and the lube...you'll need 'em.

 

[nocturnal55]

wow, thanks for all your insights and help you guys!!! i sincerely appreciate it 🙂

 

[bostampa2007]

- Beth Israel Medical Center, Albert Einstein SOM
- Robert Wood Johnson, New Brunswick, UMDNJ
- Virginia Commonwealth University
- New Jersey Medical School, Newark, UMDNJ
- SUNY Downstate
- East Carolina University, Brody School of Medicine

thanks guys

 

[cardsorbust]

Please post it in the:Official 2011-2012 IM "How To Rank" Thread

Don't worry. The same people who have at most only attended or did a rotation at one of these residencies or may not have even interviewed at any of these places are happy to share their unfounded, hearsay opinions about these programs too!

 

[mizvp23]

Could you please help me rank my top 5 programs? I'm interested in Cardiology, so looking for the best option for Cards in a non-malignant atmosphere---and please give reason why it was put there.

Harbor-UCLA
Baylor Houston
UC Irvine
Scripps Green
Cedars Sinai

(other programs also--Mayo Arizona and Florida, U of FL, Kaiser Oakland/San Fran, UT San Antonio, UT Houston, and USC)

Thanks for the help!

 

[agathodemon]

interested in h/o, clinical and research. no particular location preference, but would prefer to stay in the same place for the fellowship. Liked Yale PC on the interview day, but wonder re: its rep for h/o fellowships. Also liked NYU and Dartmouth, but also wonder how they stacks up for the fellowship. In no particular order --

Yale PC
Dartmouth
NYU
BU
UVM
UMass
UConn

Much appreciate!

 

[gold&black2005]

interested in h/o, clinical and research. no particular location preference, but would prefer to stay in the same place for the fellowship. Liked Yale PC on the interview day, but wonder re: its rep for h/o fellowships. Also liked NYU and Dartmouth, but also wonder how they stacks up for the fellowship. In no particular order --

Yale PC
Dartmouth
NYU
BU
UVM
UMass
UConn

Much appreciate!

As of the last three years (YPC only):
Yale x2 (one combined w geriatrics)
MSKCC
Fred Hutch (UW)

 

[gutonc]

interested in h/o, clinical and research. no particular location preference, but would prefer to stay in the same place for the fellowship. Liked Yale PC on the interview day, but wonder re: its rep for h/o fellowships. Also liked NYU and Dartmouth, but also wonder how they stacks up for the fellowship. In no particular order --

Yale PC
Dartmouth
NYU
BU
UVM
UMass
UConn

Much appreciate!

Actually, the way you have them is more or less how I'd rank that group. Although I'd personally move UMass above BU (in spite of the program being located in Worst-er).

 

[go lakers]

Could you please help me rank my top 5 programs? I'm interested in Cardiology, so looking for the best option for Cards in a non-malignant atmosphere---and please give reason why it was put there.

Harbor-UCLA
Baylor Houston
UC Irvine
Scripps Green
Cedars Sinai

(other programs also--Mayo Arizona and Florida, U of FL, Kaiser Oakland/San Fran, UT San Antonio, UT Houston, and USC)

Thanks for the help!

1. cedars
2. harbor
3. baylor
4. scripps green
5. uci

cedars is the opposite of a malignant program imo. they match well for cards. harbor has 4 in house spots and loves to take their own. i didn't go to my baylor interview so can't really comment. scripps green is a very small program but puts people in to cards in house and outside of scripps. uci is solid, but you're limited to in-house usually.

 

[nomorelaziness]

possibly considering fellowship (but unsure as to what... less likely GI or Cards?)

yale PC
jefferson
temple
.... and considering
UMD
montefiore

just worried a little about yale PC , if going there is gonna hurt my chances of possibly doing fellowship...

thanks!

 

[horhay1241]

Hey Guys-
Any help here would be greatly appreciated. These 3 keep battling it out in my head and I'm having a tough time trying to decide. I'm interested in Cards for whatever thats worth. The way I have them right now is:

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Utah

but that order changes daily. Thanks for the help