Official 2011-2012 IM "How To Rank" Thread

[gutonc]

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Please help!!!!

Interested in heme/onc or endocrinology fellowship

My ROL:
1. Maryland
2. Thomas Jefferson
3. Jackson Memorial Hospital
4. Minnesota
5. Temple

I hope you have more than 5 places, but, anyhoo...

UMD
UMinn
Jeff
Temple
The other 14 places I hope you interviewed
Jackson Memorial

 

[gutonc]

Interested in Hospitalist Medicine

Maryland
VCU
UVA
GW
Penn State
Jefferson
UMDNJ- Robert Wood Johnson
Temple
Georgetown
EVMS
Wake Forest
Drexel
Albert Einstein- Montefiore

By tiers:

Maryland
UVA
----------
VCU
UMDNJ- Robert Wood Johnson
Albert Einstein- Montefiore
Wake Forest
----------
Penn State
Jefferson
----------
GW
Temple
Georgetown
EVMS
Drexel

 

[gutonc]

Hi All,

Just wondering if I can get some advice on how to rank the following programs...I am interested in pursuing a GI or Cardiology fellowship right after IM residency:

UC Irvine
U of Utah
U of Nebraska
U of Arkansas
U of Louisville
Rush
Loyola
U of Illinois - Peoria
Brown
Penn State
Tulane

Some factors in my decision are: which program will prepare me to be competitive applicant for GI or Cardiology fellowship, city with a lower cost of living, and a non-malignant environment. Any advice would be appreciated. Also, would you recommend doing a second look at any of these programs, particularly Brown or UC Irvine?

Thanks!

By tiers:

UC Irvine
U of Utah
-----
U of Nebraska
Rush
Loyola
Tulane
-----
Brown
Penn State
-----
U of Louisville
U of Arkansas
-----
U of Illinois - Peoria

 

[gutonc]

On the contrary most the residents I met during my rotation there (recent) didn't like it. Most of them were GI/ Cards aspirants and were not able to put in some effort into research at a continuous stretch. Anyways, rest is just my opinion.

FWIW, the 3+1 (or some version thereof, 4+1, 6+2, whatever) is going to become the de facto standard unless the IM RRC changes their ******* rules about clinic time so don't hate on (or spooge over) any particular program for having it in place.

 

[gutonc]

Hey all,

Need some help with a few of the latter programs on my list. Looking to pursue hospitalist vs GI in the future. I'm not completely set on academic medicine, but would like to keep it open as an option. I'd eventually like to practice on the west coast, preferably Cali, if that matters.

Scripps Green (mostly for location/have their own fellowships/cushness)
UMich
Yale
OHSU
USC

If this is the bottom half of your list I wouldn't even begin to sweat it since you're unlikely to go down that far (and if you do, you could do a lot worse than wind up at any of these programs). But since you asked so nicely...

Based on academic strength:
UMich
OHSU/Yale
USC
Scripps

Based on location/lifestyle:
Scripps/OHSU
USC
Yale
UMich

 

[applegeek1234]

Hi everyone,

I keep changing my mind about the programs on the latter part of my list; would you guys be able to help me out? Two most important factors: 1) interested in cards vs heme/onc vs pulm/cc, 2) would appreciate a city where I can meet girls girls girls.

Based on academic strength:
Case
UCI
USC
SLU
CPMC

Based on location/lifestyle:
CPMC (SF)
UCI (the OC)
USC (LA)
SLU (St. Louis)
Case (Cleve-what?)

Putting it all together:
UCI
USC
CPMC
Case
SLU


If tagging people would work on SDN, then @jdh @gutonc (I worship you guys).

 

[MassiveAttack]

sorry wrong forum

 

[spherocyte]

my apologies, here is how I have my programs ranked so far. Appreciate thoughts very much. Curious especially thoughts on Virginia Mason. May want to do hemeonc fellowship but brown is quite far from family on the west coast.

Thanks


Virginia Mason in Seattle
Providence Portland in Oregon
Brown University in Rhode Island
Huntington in Pasadena, California
Alameda County in Oakland, California
Cambridge Health Alliance in Boston

 

[jdh71]

Any takers? Thanks again

UVa = UAB
Indiana = VCU
Case = OSU
Wake = Kentucky
CCF
Tennessee
Virginia Mason Western

 

[jdh71]

Hey guys, I'd appreciate some help with my situation!

I am couples matching, however, due to the competitiveness of my significant other's specialty we only got 3 locations where we'd be able to be together.

My question is, will it affect my opportunities for fellowship and being involved in academic medicine if I trained in UMass or UConn vs. Rush, UVA ?

We have in common, UMass, UConn (on my end, he has another great Institution in CT) and our home Institution. If I matched at Rush or UVA and he at his other Institutions, we wouldn't be close.

We already decided on our first option. But now it's a matter of deciding where I'd like my #2, #3, #4, to be. The rest will fall into place after that decision.

Thanks !

As has been said before, if you're an excellent resident, it opens doors for fellowship. It might be difficult to climb from a UConn or UMass to a place like Hopkins or Penn or UW for fellowship (depending on what you want to do, of course - if you're into Rheum or Endo the world is wide open), but then I imagine that you'll be dealing with similar "couples issues" come fellowship time, and that Mass/Conn area can't be beat for density of fellowships in that area of NE. Hell just in the city of Boston there's the Harvards, BU, UMass, and Tufts (did I miss one?) all of which have fellowships for instance.

I think you'll be fine.

 

[jdh71]

Hey all, I have most of my list finalized, but I'm having some trouble deciding Baylor vs. UAB. I'm definitely set on cardiology. UAB seemed like the stronger IM program on the interview day, but I liked Baylor as well (and the THI affiliation is definitely attractive). Houston > Birmingham IMHO, but I have family near both places. I'm basically trying to get a sense if training at UAB over Baylor (or vice versa) would help keep more doors open, especially if I want to move to a different region of the country for fellowship. I might just be splitting hairs at this point, but I figure I'd throw it out to SDN if anyone has inside knowledge of these programs. Thanks!

I'd say splitting hairs. If you like Baylor better, then go to Baylor. UAB doesn't add that much more to the application by "name only". Once could argue that the formal academic clinical training is better at UAB - as they are known for this tradition - but how that will ultimately translate in fellowship matching is tough to tell.

 

[jdh71]

Any inputs on University of Arizona Categorical program? Thanks

I've heard good things, though I didn't interview there. They do have a hard time recruiting to Tucson. Learn to speak spanish.

 

[jdh71]

If you completely disregard the location factor, how would you rank these programs?

colorado
ohsu
brown
boston university

no particular interest in sub-specialty yet.

OHSU
Colorado
Brown
BU

 

[jdh71]

Was hoping for some insight.I am stuck. I am currently trying to decide between these 4 programs - Wash U, Vanderbilt, U of Wash and Colorado.
I am about 90% sure my heart lies in hospital medicine and I was very intrigued by the Leaders Track of the hospitalist pathway at Colorado. I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice regarding this pathway and any possible advantages of it versus going to the other three programs on my list that from what I have seem many on this forum consider a teir above CU?
Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

The hospitalist track looks great! I'd bet if you wanted to make an academic clinical hospitalist career you'll need a program like that, or something like a hospitalist fellowship. If its what you why like, then you're not crazy for ranking above some of the heavy hitters. Plus Denver is a sweet town.

 

[jdh71]

Wayne State - Other than Detroit factor, what do you think?

University of Arizona-?? how does it stand

Thanks

Wayne state is actually a solid middle tier spot. They've also got their own fellowships.

 

[jdh71]

Hey guys. What do you think about my ROL? I'm thinking about doing academic cards, but still very much open to other specialties like Pulm/CC or GI. Some caveats, currently a student in Texas and planning to return to Texas for fellowship, but I want to see how medicine is done in other places and would like to avoid "inbreeding" factor.

1. Michigan
2. Wash U
3. Northwestern
4. UTSW
5. U Chicago (I've heard things about them being superspecialized and lacking general medicine. Not sure if true?)
6. UW
7. Baylor
8. UCSD
9. Emory
10. NYU

Thanks!

list looks fine

 

[jdh71]

Cedars, NW, UChicago, Dartmouth, Jefferson, Brown, BU, NYU, Tufts, UWash, UPitt.

Importance: Big city, quality of life/happiness, cards fellowship.
Have received no love letters from any programs, am slightly worried from reading these forums.

NYU- great city, but with changes in administration (PD, Chairman) concerned about malignancy and future direction of program.

UW
UChicago
NWern
Pitt
Dartmouth
BU = NYU
Brown
Jeff = Tufts = Cedars

 

[jdh71]

So I am having a real hard time creating my list. I keep changing my list of my top 5-6: WashU, NU, Cornell, Michigan, Pitt. I go to school on the east but was intrigued by some of the midwest programs.
-I want to do cards so I am looking for the program that will most likely get me there
-Based on academic rep alone are all of them in the same category or are Washu and Michigan much better?
-People here and at my school seem to think Pitt is an average program. I had a great feeling while there but my advisors dont think I should rank it that highly. Will I shoot myself in the foot by doing so.
-Can anyone comment on Michigan's program. Is it as rigorous as it is made out to be? There was a resident on my interview day that said he has Vit D deficiency cause he never sees daylight. Anyone else get a similar feel?

Thanks for the input. Only 9 days left! Have to figure this out soon

Pitt is an up and coming program, and form what I understand they are run like a well oil machine (and I think they added the most NIH money in the last few years. If you're gunning for Cards, I don't know about ranking them over WashU and Michigan UNLESS you liked Pitt more than WashU or Mich. And yes Michigan is that rigorous, but then I don't think you should expect to see the sun in the morning or the evening during the winter in programs with higher latitudes.

 

[jdh71]

I second this statement. I liked the program and from US World News ranking, UPMC is actually #12 and their GI program is #10 (I'm considering GI in the future). However, I'm trying to decide b/t UPMC vs. WashU vs. Vanderbilt for my #2 spot. SDN doesn't seem to give much love for Pitt. Are people still in a past mindset over UPMC or is there something else Armstud and I are missing?

I'm not convinced Pitt is the same program as a WashU or a Vandy, but I think it has that potential in the next 10 years. The most up and coming program in the country is Pitt.

 

[jdh71]

I am interested in Hospitalist Medicine and good patient variety... Any thoughts on ranking the following:

Maryland
VCU
UVA
GW
Georgetown
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Wake Forest
Penn State- Hershey
EVMS
Albert Einstein- Montefiore
UMDNJ- RWJ
Washington Hospital Center

Thanks for the help!!!

UVA
Maryland
VCU
Wake
Jeff = Monte = RWJ
Temple
Drexel
Georgetown
GW

?Penn State- Hershey
?EVMS
?Washington Hospital Center

The last three . . . eh . . . you won't match that far down your list

 

[jdh71]

Interested in academic Heme/Onc; no geographic preference. Need help with the following:

UT Houston
UMass
Loyola
Louisville
UMDNJ, Newark
West Virginia U, Morgantown

Thanks

UT Houston = UMass = Loyola =Louisville
West Virginia U, Morgantown
UMDNJ, Newark

 

[jdh71]

What do you guys think of this rank list, if you disagree why?

1)West Virginia University
2)Dallas Methodist
3)Missouri-Columbia (Mizzou)
4)Mississippi University
5)Arkansas University

Looks fine if that's the way you liked it.

 

[jdh71]

please help me rank the following 9 programs:
fellowship goal: pulmonary critical care or cardiology

this is my current order 🙂

-NJMS - Newark, UMDNJ (possible disbanding from UMDNJ ??)
-ECU -East Carolina University, NC (little too south)
-BI - Beth Israel Medical Center, Albert Einstein (everyone considers it as a community program ??)
-SUNY downstate (good school, but the internal med program is not too strong)
-Eastern Virginia Medical School (is their program rigorous enough?)
-Carilion Clinic, Virginia Tech School of Medicine
-Washington Hospital Center
-Jacobi Medical Center, Albert Einstein
-SUNY Buffalo

We'd all be really splitting very small hairs to rank all of these.

My advice: rconsider those programs with IN HOUSE cards and pulm/crit higher, otherwise just rank how you liked them.

 

[jdh71]

so..

Ohsu or georgetown? Program quality is important, but so are the job opportunities for the spouse. Are they in different leagues, or fairly close?

Thanks!

ohsu >>>>> gt

 

[jdh71]

So above is what my prelim rank list is… BUT, the more I think about it the more worried I get-- I feel that I "fit in" best at Tulane. However, my top 3 were def the places I liked the people best… And if I made my list based on people, my list would've gone: Tulane>Utah>Dartmouth. But since I liked the people at all 3 programs, I felt I should let "quality of training" set those 3 apart-- hence my original list quoted above.

This is where I need help-- are Tulane, Dartmouth and Utah all in the same league? Or would I sacrifice quality of training/future opportunities to an extent if I chose Tulane above Utah or Dartmouth??

Thanks y'all, any help would be appreciated!!!

It's a prelim year. Go where you like it.

 

[jdh71]

here are my top programs:

1a. nyu
1b. emory
3. pitt
4. baylor
5. rush
6. uic

nyu and emory might still flip flop in the next couple of days but i am leaning towards nyu. i labeled them as such b/c i would be ever so happy to match at either one-they are both my #1 choices and indistinguishable in my mind (hence the indecision). anyone see any glaring errors in judgement with this rank list? for some further clarification, i would like to do a fellowship after residency, im just not sure yet. have not crossed off the idea of the super competitive fellowships though. thanks!

No serious concerns with that list

 

[jdh71]

Hi folks. Lurker, first time poster. Would love input from those farther along this road.

Current ROL:
Duke
Vandy
Mayo Rochester
UAB
UNC
UVA
UMich
Yale
UChicago
Wake Forest

Considerations:
-I’m a non-traditional, older, married applicant with a husband who is partial to the south
-I’d prefer ease of living (proximity/affordability) to a big city
-I am leaning towards pursuing a cardiology fellowship, but I have a public health background, and I’m also considering becoming an administrator with a strong public health research component

looks fine

 

[jdh71]

Hey guys, just wondering what you guys thought with the top of my list. Leaning toward doing cards fellowship.

Loyola
Indy
VCU
UIC
Cinci
Florida
USF
-----------

Loyola isn't the strongest reputation wise on that list, but I think it's a nice place to train. If you really liked it best, then the list looks fine, if not, then Indy and VCU should probably top out the list.

 

[jdh71]

which do you guys think is a stronger/better program? I want to go into a competitive fellowship.

uva >>>>> uth

 

[jdh71]

Hi all. Long time lurker, first time poster and I’d appreciate some advice for ranking. I'm currently torn between Mayo Rochester and WashU for my number 1. I'm interested in medical education and cardiology.

I felt like Mayo was a great program. They had strong clinical research, good fellowship matches, and a very strong emphasis on medical education. Also, the residents seemed very relaxed and happy with their lives. But I'm a little concerned because Mayo's schedule and patient loads seem lighter than WashU's. Does Mayo offer comparable training to WashU despite the decreased workload?

I also really liked WashU. WashU had a more impressive fellowship match than Mayo. But I was a little nervous about the happiness of the residents. Some of the residents I talked with seemed jaded about their patient population because WashU serves many inner-city patients with multiple social issues. Maybe I just talked with a few grumpy residents on interview day, so I’m curious if others got the same impression as me. Additionally, I felt like resident education was less emphasized at WashU compared with Mayo. An example of this is that residents didn’t have protected time during didactics or conferences.

I realize that both are great programs but I’d appreciate any help because I’m really torn right now.

Go where you'll think you'll be happy. You don't gain that much by taking care of patient's with a 1000 social issues. WashU probably does win the clinical side of things, and you have a good shot of getting back to Mayo for Cards from WashU - you also have an excellent shot at cards at Mayo form Mayo

I think you're trying to split too many hairs. I hear you saying you like Mayo best. Don't let your gut talk you out of it.

 

[jdh71]

Would love some more advice on my list. I'm starting to freak out about dropping below my top 5 or so.

Hey guys, I appreciate the advice on my list. I've grouped them according where they generally fall, but I can't decide within each grouping on a rank. I don't have a preference for a specific location or specialty prestige. I do want to stay in academic medicine.

MGH
Hopkins
Penn

Duke
Stanford
UNC

Michigan
BID
Uchicago
NW

Uhhhhhh . . . why would you "freak" about dropping below your top 5? You think nobody will love you if you wind up at, oh I don't know . . . Standford? or Michigan? 😕

 

[jdh71]

I agree with you that Mayo seems like a great program to suit your needs. One thing to think about is that most people stay at their home program for the fellowship match. When you rank your programs I would choose a place where you and your husband could live for 6-7 years, not 3 years.

Most people? I don't don't know about that. Where you end up for fellowship is largely the choice on the applicant. If people stay at their home institution it is largely because they wanted to, not because they had to.

 

[jdh71]

Having trouble ranking the following programs. I would appreciate yall's advice.

Wash U
Emory
UAB
MUSC
UK
Baylor - Houston
UT memphis
Tulane

The order you listen them looks fine, maybe Tulane over UT

 

[jdh71]

Is this true? It would make my rank list look different if I knew I was 'stuck' in a place for fellowship. Is it that people usually cannot match somewhere else for fellowship, or choose not to? What percentage of IM residents stay at their home program for fellowship? I would potentially want to do fellowship on the other end of the country from residency. I don't have any problem uprooting myself, I live light. In fact, I can't live in one place more than 3-4 years, I get restless.

No it's not universally true. Where you end up for fellowship will largely be your choice. Leaving your home institution for fellowship is not a big deal.

 

[jdh71]

Can anyone recommend how to rank these programs only based on 1. strength of academic reputation and 2. Competitiveness for a GI or Cardiolog fellowship at a top 50 fellowship program? If I go to the University of Utah, I don't necessarily want to stay there for fellowship...

Any advice would really help me out!

Didn't I already give an opinion on this one?

 

[jdh71]

Hey all,

Need some help with a few of the latter programs on my list. Looking to pursue hospitalist vs GI in the future. I'm not completely set on academic medicine, but would like to keep it open as an option. I'd eventually like to practice on the west coast, preferably Cali, if that matters.

Scripps Green (mostly for location/have their own fellowships/cushness)
UMich
Yale
OHSU
USC

I've seen where you were invited to interview and think you're making mountains out of molehills here.

Mich
OHSU
Yale
USC
SG

 

[jdh71]

hey everyone,

would greatly appreciate some thoughts on these programs, these are the top ones I really liked. I am not sure if I want to do fellowship honestly.

PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME, HOW WOULD YOU RANK THESE, THESE ARE IN RANDOM ORDER NOW.

Virginia Mason in Seattle
Providence Portland in Oregon
Alameda County in Oakland, California
Huntington in Pasadena, California
Brown University in Rhode Island
Cambridge Health Alliance in Boston

Appreciate all help thanks!!

Brown
VM
Providence
the rest

 

[Zebda]

Nephro vs endocrine vs heme/onco...

My ROL:

1. UVA
2. Brown
3. Maryland
4. Thomas Jefferson
5. Rush
6. Tufts
7. Minnesota
8. Jackson Memorial Hospital
9. Temple
10. UIC
11. UT Houston

Thanks so much in advance! I just want to get this done and put it away TODAY 🙂

 

[jdh71]

Please help!!!!

Interested in heme/onc or endocrinology fellowship

My ROL:
1. Maryland
2. Thomas Jefferson
3. Jackson Memorial Hospital
4. Minnesota
5. Temple

Minnesota
Maryland
Jeff
Temple
JMH

 

[jdh71]

I didn't see it answered so I've gotta ask: Rush vs UIC?

UIC > Rush for academic rep

Rush is however a nice program. You might be splitting hairs.

 

[jdh71]

Thanks for the response. How do you feel about Northwestern vs. Wash U? Chicago's obviously a more attractive city than St. Louis, but I'm not sure in terms of training and reputation.

I think WashU owns NWern

 

[jdh71]

FWIW, the 3+1 (or some version thereof, 4+1, 6+2, whatever) is going to become the de facto standard unless the IM RRC changes their ******* rules about clinic time so don't hate on (or spooge over) any particular program for having it in place.

Word

All the clinic is ******ed for IM when most of us will be going into a sub-specialty or doing hospitalist. I know they are trying to get more primary care experience, but I'm not sure how they expect to make that a reality when all they do is make us HATE clinic that much more by making us do more of it.

Honestly, I think IM should define it's area of practice more finely and get out of the business of routinely seeing most primary care patients. Let the FP's, PA's, and NP's see the basic patients and make IM clinic a referral sub-specialty for more complex patients. Patients that have more than 3 serious co-morbidities that need someone who can triage the appropriate medical and surgical sub-specialists. We need to go back to being the "doctor's doctor" and get out of the business of titrating lisinopril.

 

[jdh71]

Hi everyone,

I keep changing my mind about the programs on the latter part of my list; would you guys be able to help me out? Two most important factors: 1) interested in cards vs heme/onc vs pulm/cc, 2) would appreciate a city where I can meet girls girls girls.

Based on academic strength:
Case
UCI
USC
SLU
CPMC

Based on location/lifestyle:
CPMC (SF)
UCI (the OC)
USC (LA)
SLU (St. Louis)
Case (Cleve-what?)

Putting it all together:
UCI
USC
CPMC
Case
SLU


If tagging people would work on SDN, then @jdh @gutonc (I worship you guys).

Well, outside of Miami the best looking women in the country are in southern california. Hell, an "8" anywhere else in the country is a "6-7" in LA.

I think your list looks fine. You'll be able to find a pulm/crit spot easily enough out of any of those programs, including CPMC (which has it's own nice pulm/crit). Cards might be tougher coming from a community spot, but not anywhere near impossible. You can find a spot somewhere.

And don't worship me, I'm just one more a-hole with an opinion - a strong opinion, no doubt. 😀

 

[nocturnal55]

No serious concerns with that list

thanks! i'm thinking of ranking baylor above pitt-any concerns with that?

 

[jdh71]

thanks! i'm thinking of ranking baylor above pitt-any concerns with that?

Not if you liked them more

 

[Elixir86]

Someone's been a busy boy....

 

[jdh71]

Someone's been a busy boy....

I promised I'd be back 😀

Me, my coffee, and SDN

 

[DdrumbumD]

o

 

[homeground]

looks fine

Hi folks. Lurker, first time poster. Would love input from those farther along this road.

Current ROL:
Duke
Vandy
Mayo Rochester
UAB
UNC
UVA
UMich
Yale
UChicago
Wake Forest

Considerations:
-I’m a non-traditional, older, married applicant with a husband who is partial to the south
-I’d prefer ease of living (proximity/affordability) to a big city
-I am leaning towards pursuing a cardiology fellowship, but I have a public health background, and I’m also considering becoming an administrator with a strong public health research component

I really appreciate everyone's comments, and thanks for the "catch up" reply, JDH.

After a few more days my husband and I decided Mayo was just too much of a stretch in terms of geographically/climate/employment for him. We've moved UVA up to #3 on the basis of "where we'd love to be."

Is it fair to say that UVA = Mayo = UNC = UAB in terms of placement power for a cards or GI fellowship (assuming that I perform well as a resident at those places)?

Thanks again.

 

[jdh71]

Here I am right now. Want to do cards, can't decide between mayo-AZ and UIC...much diff in size, volume

JH bayview
Mayo-Arizona
UIC
Indy
Ohio State
Loyola
CCF...others

I don't know man. Mayo-AZ does have a nice cards fellowship, but UIC might open a few more doors. But if you really like Mayo-AZ more then, then all things otherwise being generally equal, I don't see any huge, huge problems there. I personally like the Phoenix area and Scottsdale is a really nice area, but it's basically a community program with a Mayo association. With all that said, I know a guy there, and he thinks the limited patient population seen by Mayo-AZ hurts the clinical acumen of the residents.