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Med School: MD state school
Step 1: low 260s
Step 2 CK: Haven't taken yet, practice scores in the 260s.
Rank: Top quintile
AOA: Yes
Clinical: All honors, pending FM grade.
Research: 2 first author case reports in a medicine subspecialty, 7+ presentations, and a couple of articles currently in submission.
ECs: solid, heavily involved with a couple of different groups.
Letters: solid, great evaluations for Dean's letter.
Programs: MGH, BWH, Hopkins, Mayo, Vandy, Duke, Emory, UAB, UTSW, Baylor, Wake Forest, home program.
Would like to stay in the south, but if the opportunity is right, I will consider leaving. What are my chances at the Harvard/Hopkins programs? How about at the southern powerhouses? My main concern is strong clinical experience and good cardiology/pulmonology critical care matches.
Med School: MD state school
Step 1: low 260s
Step 2 CK: Haven't taken yet, practice scores in the 260s.
Rank: Top quintile
AOA: Yes
Clinical: All honors, pending FM grade.
Research: 2 first author case reports in a medicine subspecialty, 7+ presentations, and a couple of articles currently in submission.
ECs: solid, heavily involved with a couple of different groups.
Letters: solid, great evaluations for Dean's letter.
Programs: MGH, BWH, Hopkins, Mayo, Vandy, Duke, Emory, UAB, UTSW, Baylor, Wake Forest, home program.
Would like to stay in the south, but if the opportunity is right, I will consider leaving. What are my chances at the Harvard/Hopkins programs? How about at the southern powerhouses? My main concern is strong clinical experience and good cardiology/pulmonology critical care matches.
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Your chance is somewhere between 0 and 100%. Possibly closer to the 100%
Seriously - you have top stats and your specific question is whether you can match at Harvard? What arbitrary number would you like?
Hey all, got my step 1 score back last week (250)and didn't hit it out of the park like I'd anticipated. Practice tests and my standardized testing history pointed to a considerably higher score, and I was naively banking on step 1 helping me stand out as an applicant. Just starting third year so no clerkship grades to report yet, but I should have three 1st author pubs and solid ECs with several leadership positions around application time. Attending a top 20 school.
My dream program is Penn, maybe the PC track since I'm interested in policy. Do I have any shot of scoring an interview with a 250? What can I do over the next year to make myself a more competitive applicant (aside from honoring all clerkships)? More research? Shoot for AOA? Can a top notch Step 2 score compensate? Will an audition rotation help? Initially posted this over in the MD forum, which garnered several "don't feed the troll" comments, but I don't feel like my concern is unwarranted - 250 does seem low for top programs. Thoughts?
My dream program is Penn, maybe the PC track since I'm interested in policy. Do I have any shot of scoring an interview with a 250? What can I do over the next year to make myself a more competitive applicant (aside from honoring all clerkships)? More research? Shoot for AOA? Can a top notch Step 2 score compensate? Will an audition rotation help? Initially posted this over in the MD forum, which garnered several "don't feed the troll" comments, but I don't feel like my concern is unwarranted - 250 does seem low for top programs. Thoughts?
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Penn IM matched residents data this yr, taken from the Texas star survey. You're fine.
Step 1 Step 2 #pubs #abstracts, pres, posters
225-229 255-259 4 >10 (PhD)
255-259 260-264 0 0
270+ 270+ 0 2
245-249 245-249 10 >10 (PhD)
235-239 265-269 2 8
250-254 260-264 2 4
225-229 265-269 0 2 (2nd degree)
250-254 265-269 0 2
235-239 240-244 3 >10 (PhD)
245-249 255-259 2 9 (MPH)
265-269 265-269 0 1
Thank you!!! This is exactly what I was looking for. Had been helplessly googling/searching for Penn IM's average step 1. Where does one find this "texas star survey" data?
I think it was only released to certain schools that participated in the survey.
http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/educa...ervices/assets/texas-star-dashboard-guide.pdf
huh, neat! thanks for sharing 🙂
Someone that is worried about a 250 Step 1 has to have something wrong with them. Most people outside of SDN would kill for a score as solid as that
totally fair point - and I know that if I were trying to match at a "top 20" IM program generally, I wouldn't be too worried about my score at all. But due to family/SO/life reasons, I'm hoping to end up in a specific city and still at top program, which narrows my options considerably. Just hoping to set up myself up as best I can to deal with the complete uncertainly of the match.
Good list. @TrashCanMan see above. Also both of you should consider the following: Case Western, Cincinnati, UMinn-Hennepin, UCSD, Robert Wood Johnson, and UMaryland.
Consider UCLA-OV and UCLA-Harbor.
Henry Ford is absolutely an academic program with its main hospital having an exclusive relationship with Wayne State University School of Medicine. Its poised to take over as the main health center of the school too. No need to apply to DMC if you don't want to. If HFHS was in NYC/LA/Houston/Chicago, it would be known on SDN as a solid mid tier or even upper midtier academic program. Since it's in Detroit, a lot of US grads outside Detroit may not rank them highly so they'd rather take highly qualified DO students (like above) than US MDs with <220 Step 1, etc. Their workload is challenging with a good amount of ICU experience, the pathology witnessed is clearly above average, and the program itself is very organized and has a culture of teaching. Sorry I ranted on that point, but Henry Ford is so underrated on SDN. Their fellowship match is decent too. Like every mid tier academic, they have their in house matches for GI/Cards and then they'll have their occasional GI UCLA or Heme-Onc Mayo/Cornell which demonstrates their ability to send the true academic superstars to places.
tl;dr: Henry Ford is an academic mid-tier.
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Your chances would be excellent at my program which appears on your list of academic midwestern programs.
New M3 - Step 1 231 (sigh)
About 5 research abstracts accepted (mostly 3-4 author).
Extracurriculars: Worked in some clinics, shadowed some people, participated in one social organization, etc
Red flag: Failed and successfully remediated female repro M1 year. (I know it's bad, but I'm not sure just HOW bad this is...)
My dream is to be in academic medicine, which my step 1 score proceeded to promptly smash (but if anyone is willing to give me that shred of hope/reality, please do!). I love teaching, I've had great mentors in my experience so far and wish to become one of them, if possible.
Reason for wanting to go to West coast - aside from the same reasons most other people with no ties do, I used to go back there every winter and spring break during jr high - high school - early college for national sports competitions that I participated in, and the friends I have made while competing there have since invited me back to the area frequently. It's definitely not the same as having grown up and lived there (though my mother and I have lived there for a year when I was young), but it was enough for me to appreciate the communities there (compared to the midwest, I find myself as a better fit and happier with the demographics in the west coast. The sun helps).
****ty reason? Maybe, but that's how I feel. Now proceed to shut me down on why this is a stretch.
About 5 research abstracts accepted (mostly 3-4 author).
Extracurriculars: Worked in some clinics, shadowed some people, participated in one social organization, etc
Red flag: Failed and successfully remediated female repro M1 year. (I know it's bad, but I'm not sure just HOW bad this is...)
My dream is to be in academic medicine, which my step 1 score proceeded to promptly smash (but if anyone is willing to give me that shred of hope/reality, please do!). I love teaching, I've had great mentors in my experience so far and wish to become one of them, if possible.
Reason for wanting to go to West coast - aside from the same reasons most other people with no ties do, I used to go back there every winter and spring break during jr high - high school - early college for national sports competitions that I participated in, and the friends I have made while competing there have since invited me back to the area frequently. It's definitely not the same as having grown up and lived there (though my mother and I have lived there for a year when I was young), but it was enough for me to appreciate the communities there (compared to the midwest, I find myself as a better fit and happier with the demographics in the west coast. The sun helps).
****ty reason? Maybe, but that's how I feel. Now proceed to shut me down on why this is a stretch.
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Your reasons are your own. At least you’re honest that it’s not because of the other generic reasons - “family”, for example, always seems to be in Cali or NYC or (insert hip, desirable metro area here). You never see anyone say “I absolutely LOVE the culture in West Virginia and must end up there!” (I’m just having fun, before anyone here gets offended)
I think your failure in M1 will definitely be an issue unfortunately. The step 1 score is ok and the research is great. Your goal in M3 will be to get (a) good grades, (b) good evaluations from your clinical preceptors, and (b) learn a ton of medicine. I’m not sure how you guys do senior AOA but if possible could try to achieve that - it would be a huge mitigating factor to the failure.
Realistically you could probably match a decent academic medical residency but you would need to expand scope outside of Cali to do so. It’s definitely doable.
Accidentally made a separate thread instead of posting here (sorry @gutonc). Any advice on programs to target as a very below average applicant? My and my wife’s families are in Philly, so we want to stay close-ish (maybe 5-6 hour drive tops) and we like urban much more than rural. I’m hoping to go into ID which I gather isn’t the most competitive but want to keep the option open. Academic places preferable but beggars can’t be choosers so anywhere is OK!
Med School: Top 20 Northeast
Step: 216 step 1, expecting not amazing on step 2 (practice ~235)
M3: Half honors (but not medicine)
Research: 3 first-author publications, 3 conference presentations
Other: Leader of sex ed program in two local high schools, did healthcare investment banking for 4 years before med school, no failures/retakes/etc.
Not sure what level I should be targeting, so wanted to get thoughts on the initial list so far (will of course apply to many more) --
Academic (assuming all are reaches): Temple, Drexel, Hofstra, Monte, GW, Georgetown...is it even worth throwing in places like Jefferson, UMD, NYU?
Community: Pennsylvania Hospital, Einstein Philly, SLR + Beth Israel, Jacobi, Bayview (thanks for the rec @DrSLR)
Med School: Top 20 Northeast
Step: 216 step 1, expecting not amazing on step 2 (practice ~235)
M3: Half honors (but not medicine)
Research: 3 first-author publications, 3 conference presentations
Other: Leader of sex ed program in two local high schools, did healthcare investment banking for 4 years before med school, no failures/retakes/etc.
Not sure what level I should be targeting, so wanted to get thoughts on the initial list so far (will of course apply to many more) --
Academic (assuming all are reaches): Temple, Drexel, Hofstra, Monte, GW, Georgetown...is it even worth throwing in places like Jefferson, UMD, NYU?
Community: Pennsylvania Hospital, Einstein Philly, SLR + Beth Israel, Jacobi, Bayview (thanks for the rec @DrSLR)
Solid grades and strong research at a very good school should compensate significantly for low Step 1 score and lack of IM honors. I think your current list is reasonable. Pitt, Jefferson, UMD, and UVA would all be reaches but not wild fantasies. RWJ, Penn State, Stony Brook, and Rochester are all academic programs not too far from Philly that are worth checking out. Your decision to favor strong mid-Atlantic community programs over southern or midwestern academic programs shouldn't keep you from matching in ID.
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Just wanted to update this since I've got a little more information (bolded) and ask for help with my preliminary application list. Still hoping to do academics, still interested in ID but also Heme/onc. Trying to stay in the East but would venture out west for the right opportunity.
Reach:
BWH, Duke, Hopkins, MGH, Michigan, Penn, Stanford, UCSF, Vandy, WashU, Yale
Target:
Baylor, Emory, Indiana, OSU, Pitt, UAB, UNC, UVA, Wake Forest
Safety:
Florida, Georgetown, MUSC, USF, UTMB
Any advice on my chances at some of these places, whether I should change up my list, if I should add more target/safety schools, etc. would be greatly appreciated!
I matched to one of your "reach" places this past cycle and interviewed at most of them with similarly low ranked med school, lower step score, maybe a little more research. You're gonna get AOA for sure unless your class hates you. You're gonna do great- and probably match somewhere fantastic. Make sure your app "tells a story" and don't neglect your personal statement!
Thanks, I appreciate the advice. In the process of working on my PS right now. Do you think I should apply to some more programs in my target/safety range or some more programs in general? And if so, do you have any specific suggestions, particularly programs that have ID and heme/onc research opportunities?
Based on other places that are in your lists
Reach: UChicago, NW, MGH, UWash; UCSD
Target: Wisco, UMinn, Iowa, OHSU
Safety: This list is virtually endless and if you apply all the places in Reach and Target, you probably only need 4 or 5 at the most here.
Thanks for the feedback and advice. I'll definitely keep several of those places in mind. I do have another question - I've been looking into the ABIM research path - do you (or anyone) have any advice about this pathway (ID specifically) and would I even have a chance given my institution and my lack of extensive research? Thanks again.
It's not all that competitive. It's actually designed for MDs without a PhD, but most people that do it have PhDs already.
Hello. I have a question if including my background on my personal statement would be relevant for programs to know or if it would be just a waste of breath. Im from the deep, deep south. First person in my family to leave my town, let alone go to college. Will this help me at all to include or is it all just about the numbers? I have other things i can talk about on the PS, just seeing if this would be worthy. Appreciate the opinions. The goal is go to as good of an academic program as I can get into. One of the big name programs would be a dream. Im very interested in research, teaching, and all the things academia has to offer.
Med School: Ranked in the top 30.
Step 1: 256
Step 2 CK: pending
Rank: Top quartile. Invited to AOA (keeping fingers crossed I get it.)
Clerkship grades: All Honors except High Pass psychiatry
Research: Received a competitive research grant, 3 posters, 2 oral presentations (both placed 2nd at their respective events), 1 2nd author pub
EC's: Probably 500-600 hrs of volunteering during the first 3 years. I really enjoy the under served. I do several leadership positions within the school.
Long-term Goal: Academia
Med School: Ranked in the top 30.
Step 1: 256
Step 2 CK: pending
Rank: Top quartile. Invited to AOA (keeping fingers crossed I get it.)
Clerkship grades: All Honors except High Pass psychiatry
Research: Received a competitive research grant, 3 posters, 2 oral presentations (both placed 2nd at their respective events), 1 2nd author pub
EC's: Probably 500-600 hrs of volunteering during the first 3 years. I really enjoy the under served. I do several leadership positions within the school.
Long-term Goal: Academia
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You can include it (1 sentence max), but the rest of your app is pretty stellar so I doubt it will make much difference. If it's an important part of who you are as a person, and who you hope to become as a physician, it's not a terrible idea to mention it.
Mind if i ask you where did you match?
Your average step 1 score, lack of honors in medicine, and remediation will hold you back like you have identified. Your chances are zero at the Harvards, Hopkins, Penns, Columbias, etc. Upper mid-tier programs are reaches (BUs, Monte, Jefferson, etc) and you should aim for solid mid-tier program (Hofstra, Stonybrook, Rutgers, UMD, etc). I only used northeast programs as examples.
As long as you do well in residency, fellowships should be attainable.
My suggestions are to apply broadly, do IM sub-I in July and crush it, and have your mentors reach out to institutions they have connections to to nab some interviews. Oh and pass step 2 CS.
In your wheelhouse. Although I think your chances at slightly higher tier places aren't all that bad.
I also LOL'd at trying to discriminate 2 tiers that have Monte and Jeff in one but UMD and Rutgers-RWJ in another. Those are absolutely all in the same tier. Hofstra/Northwell/Whatever they change the name to next year and SB I suppose a tad "lower" but not dramatically.
You need to focus on the University Grandma programs. Those are ones that are actually University/Med School programs but that your Grandma hasn't heard of.
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My question is regarding top tier programs (i.e. Big 4, Penn, Columbia, Duke) and their desire for applicants with productive research. Can an advanced degree (in my case a PharmD w/ clinical background) and significant time teaching make up for a lackluster research column? I will apply to these programs but am reluctant to make my application too top heavy. Looking to add more mid tier programs and open to suggestion. Thanks for any insight.
Med School: Top 20, West Coast
Step 1: 265
Step 2 CK: 276, CS pending
AOA: Yes, Junior
Clerkship grades: All Honors with exception of HP in Surgery, Honors surg sub-I (thought I might go into surgery for a time)
Research: Very little--2 or 3 insignificant projects without publications during med school, 2 poster presentations at national meeting prior to med school, oral case presentation at state ACP meeting.
EC's: Member on several committees held 2 multiple leadership positions, 20-25 formal lecture hours throughout my career
Interest: Cards or pulm/cc
Plan to apply: MGH, BWH, JHH, UCSF, Duke, Penn, Stanford, Columbia, Michigan, UTSW, WashU, Mayo, NW, Vanderbilt, UW
Med School: Top 20, West Coast
Step 1: 265
Step 2 CK: 276, CS pending
AOA: Yes, Junior
Clerkship grades: All Honors with exception of HP in Surgery, Honors surg sub-I (thought I might go into surgery for a time)
Research: Very little--2 or 3 insignificant projects without publications during med school, 2 poster presentations at national meeting prior to med school, oral case presentation at state ACP meeting.
EC's: Member on several committees held 2 multiple leadership positions, 20-25 formal lecture hours throughout my career
Interest: Cards or pulm/cc
Plan to apply: MGH, BWH, JHH, UCSF, Duke, Penn, Stanford, Columbia, Michigan, UTSW, WashU, Mayo, NW, Vanderbilt, UW
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Would not worry. You are going to get interviews from most of the programs you've listed. AOA/Top 20 med school/260+ steps/Clinical Honors/ECs will more than compensate for 'lackluster' research. I would select a few mid-tier programs in geographic areas that you are interested in, but any more than that would probably be a waste of your time/money.
Yes, you will match at a university IM program, which btw encompasses more than just University of (insert state name).
Congrats on your stellar med school performance. You will get IVs to 90% of your list. If you are 1) willing to stay at your home institution and 2) have a good sense of whether you'd be a good fit there, then you don't need to add any more programs. I say this because your home institution (which I'm guessing is one of the other non-UCSF west coast powerhouses since you didn't include it in your list) should be trying to keep you as you are a very strong applicant and therefore obviates the need for more 'safety' programs.
If you feel paranoid, then adding 1-2 upper mid tier programs in your location of choice can be helpful, but my guess is you'll be turning down those IVs at the end of the day.
Recently decided to apply IM after debating between this and diagnostic rads. I was wondering if someone could have my chances at a decent academic place. I'm hoping to match in the Northeast, but I'm flexible. Thanks!
Med School: Ranked in the top 20.
Step 1: 242
Step 2 CK: pending
Rank: Middle of the pack/50th percentile
Clerkship grade: pass in peds and surgery, honors in OB, HP in medicine, Neuro, and psych; primary care and medicine sub I pending
Research: poster at school wide research day, pub from undergrad
EC's: Volunteering in several groups, leadership position in interest group
Long-term Goal: fellowship and then practice?
Med School: Ranked in the top 20.
Step 1: 242
Step 2 CK: pending
Rank: Middle of the pack/50th percentile
Clerkship grade: pass in peds and surgery, honors in OB, HP in medicine, Neuro, and psych; primary care and medicine sub I pending
Research: poster at school wide research day, pub from undergrad
EC's: Volunteering in several groups, leadership position in interest group
Long-term Goal: fellowship and then practice?
You need to apply broadly—not sure if 90 is enough? Someone else with more experience may know better.
As to the caliber of program, a us grad with those stats and application without any research or super amazing letters or ec’s Isn’t even a shoe in for an academic program. The average step 1 these days is near 235 and average step 2 above 240. You’re a decent amount below average for both so I suspect you can match but it’ll likely be a lesser known community program and certainly not at a Hopkins Sinai Baylor etc level program. Don’t mean to be harsh, just the truth, Just apply broadly hopefully you’ll get some decent interviews.
If you have published multiple articles in high-impact journals, or have really good connections with big name professors who will personally make phone calls for you, then go ahead and give it a shot, Otherwise, I would not suggest you waste your money. Unfortunately, even matching into a small community program would not be a guarantee given your current package
If only we had a thread for this kind of thing.
If only.
If only.
If the mods would sticky a thread like this it would so helpful.
Yes. You are being too ambitious. A foreign grad three years out from graduation, mediocre step scores, no research that you’ve mentioned - places like Sinai, Hopkins, Yale will not give you the time of day. They most likely would not give an AMG with those step scores a look either unless they were a Hopkins student or whatever.
I would apply very very broadly including community, lower tier academic, and consider a backup specialty as well if your goal is simply to practice as a doctor in the
US
Anyone have any thoughts?
I don't think UW/BIDMC are considered "mid-tier" but you have a solid application and if you apply broadly enough, you should be fine. You will be competitive for most of the programs you listed off.
Should I apply as a backup to IM with my stats? My "heart" is slightly torn and I'd appreciate any advice:
Med School: US-IMG (non-Carib) graduated 2017
Step 1: 233
Step 2 CK: 251/ Step 2 CS Pass/ ECFMG Certified
Rank: no idea?
Clerkship grade: no honors system in my school but highest shelf exams were neuro, internal med, and psych
Research: psych research only including 1 publication
EC's: 2 months of USCE (psych), almost 1 year of ED work since I graduated, volunteering in psych and peds student research groups, leadership position in student council, school award for high grades
Red Flags: IMG? 2017 Grad? (working in ED since grad), does my application scream psychiatry and will anyone consider me?
Where do I want to end-up: NJ/NYC but anywhere since I don't have the luxury of picking (IMG)
Med School: US-IMG (non-Carib) graduated 2017
Step 1: 233
Step 2 CK: 251/ Step 2 CS Pass/ ECFMG Certified
Rank: no idea?
Clerkship grade: no honors system in my school but highest shelf exams were neuro, internal med, and psych
Research: psych research only including 1 publication
EC's: 2 months of USCE (psych), almost 1 year of ED work since I graduated, volunteering in psych and peds student research groups, leadership position in student council, school award for high grades
Red Flags: IMG? 2017 Grad? (working in ED since grad), does my application scream psychiatry and will anyone consider me?
Where do I want to end-up: NJ/NYC but anywhere since I don't have the luxury of picking (IMG)
Any thoughts?
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You should think long and hard about what you want to do as a career. I wouldn't go into the process applying to IM as a backup. Typically, psych is less competitive than IM but of course if your goal is to be a doctor in the US, there are more IM spots out there. I don't think you'll have difficulties matching in psych if you apply broad enough.
What a strange list of programs. You have good scores and a lot of publications, which will open up a lot of doors for you. With that being said, a lot of other applicants have good scores and publications too.
BIDMC/Duke/Michigan/WashU/UW - realistic reaches, you should get a few IVs among this group
BU/Tufts/UNC/Emory/Minn - realistic, you'll get most of these IVs
UT Austin - your home institution? you'll def get IVs in programs similar to UT Austin
Thank you, that's exactly what I needed to hear.
Didn’t psych have a really low match rate this year? It was one of the lowest of all specialties.
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Yes, and that is exactly why I'm afraid of applying only to Psych as an IMG.
Med School: US MD - low ranked school in NE
Step 1: 250+
Step 2 CK: Not taken yet
Rank: most likely 2nd quartile
Clerkship grade: H - medicine SubI, psych, HP - IM, Surgery, ObGyn, P - peds, FM
Research: 10 posters/pubs/papers (4 papers, 1 is 1st author), 2 1st author papers in the works.
EC: average stuff
Wondering what my chances are at academic programs on the East and West Coasts (CA-native)
Super reaches - Stanford, UCSF, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard programs
Reaches - UCLA, UCSD, UW, Yale, NYU
More realistic - California community programs, UCI, UCD, Tufts, BU, GW
Step 1: 250+
Step 2 CK: Not taken yet
Rank: most likely 2nd quartile
Clerkship grade: H - medicine SubI, psych, HP - IM, Surgery, ObGyn, P - peds, FM
Research: 10 posters/pubs/papers (4 papers, 1 is 1st author), 2 1st author papers in the works.
EC: average stuff
Wondering what my chances are at academic programs on the East and West Coasts (CA-native)
Super reaches - Stanford, UCSF, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard programs
Reaches - UCLA, UCSD, UW, Yale, NYU
More realistic - California community programs, UCI, UCD, Tufts, BU, GW
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