Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[gutonc]

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Would love some suggestions. Kind of in a weird spot.

DO student applying both AOA and ACGME
Research with poster presentation but no pubs.
2 remediations during preclinicals
Step1/COMLEX: 198/443
Step2/COMLEX 2: 230/438
PE: Pass

Applying to approximately 100 programs both community and low/mid tier academic. My question is do I have a real shot at ACGME? I've gotten audition rotations with rec letters at mid-tier academic institutions. Do I have a shot at these institutions or am I just dreaming? I'm afraid my comlex 1+2, 2 remediations, and usmle 1 might screen me out but is my step 2 jump good enough to compensate?

Nobody cares about your preclinical remediations. Your Step 1 is kind of a problem and might get you screened from a lot of places. But your COMLEX scores aren't great either so....

You'll get interviews, but you probably shouldn't completely discount the AOA match.

 

[soop]

WAMC

Career switch > Caribbean x-fer to low tier US Allo 3rd year.
Step 1 265+
Step 2 270+
Senior AOA
Top 25% quartile all rotations (no honors in our school)
Involved in big community projects + lots of other volunteer/work experiences, VP of student council
Rock solid LORs
Zero research, 1 presentation at a service leadership conference

Interested in cardio & teaching. Applying to top 20 academic programs but hoping to get into top 5.

 

[JustAnotherMedStudent2000]

Med school rank: 60-70, state school
USMLE Step 1: 223
USMLE Step 2: 260
Class rank: my school doesn’t do that
AOA: No
Honors: medicine with glowing comments and Peds, all others HP
Research: several posters, several manuscripts in progress
EC: Lots Of volunteer work and leadership
LOR: pretty good I think
Other: previous career in healthcare prior to med school

Really hoping for Pacific Northwest, west coast ideally. also applied to a bunch of reaches just for fun.
My top choices are:
Ohsu, UC davis, UT Austin

 

[JustAnotherMedStudent2000]

Help me!

Long story short I applied to Family Medicine on Friday due to my Step 1 score (211), and passes in all clerkships. My advisor told me it was the "safest move" for me. But I really want to go into Internal Medicine. I'm currently preparing a last minute application. 2 of my letter writers have agreed to modify their letters for me and submit them before the end of the weekend. I think I'll apply to 80-100 programs by midnight. Should I target mostly community programs? Where should I apply to? I would like to stay in the north east if at all possible.

My medical school is in New Jersey, and I went to NYU for undergrad. My fiance is living in the city but she has some ability to move with her job. But she doesn't want to move to the south or out west.

Gracias in advance 🙂

You’re advisor is a jerk. You’re plenty qualified for IM. Just apply to a good mix of academic programs and community programs and some family med if you want.... but do IM if its what you want!

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

WAMC

Career switch > Caribbean x-fer to low tier US Allo 3rd year.
Step 1 265+
Step 2 270+
Senior AOA
Top 25% quartile all rotations (no honors in our school)
Involved in big community projects + lots of other volunteer/work experiences, VP of student council
Rock solid LORs
Zero research, 1 presentation at a service leadership conference

Interested in cardio & teaching. Applying to top 20 academic programs but hoping to get into top 5.

You'll match somewhere well. Just have 6-8 upper-mid tier programs as backup. Your lack of research may hurt you at the top 5 but otherwise you are very competitive across the board.

Med school rank: 60-70, state school
USMLE Step 1: 223
USMLE Step 2: 260
Class rank: my school doesn’t do that
AOA: No
Honors: medicine with glowing comments and Peds, all others HP
Research: several posters, several manuscripts in progress
EC: Lots Of volunteer work and leadership
LOR: pretty good I think
Other: previous career in healthcare prior to med school

Really hoping for Pacific Northwest, west coast ideally. also applied to a bunch of reaches just for fun.
My top choices are:
Ohsu, UC davis, UT Austin

All three are within your reach, and you should be competitive for UoWash as well if you have ties to the Pacific Northwest.

 

[gutonc]

WAMC

Career switch > Caribbean x-fer to low tier US Allo 3rd year.
Step 1 265+
Step 2 270+
Senior AOA
Top 25% quartile all rotations (no honors in our school)
Involved in big community projects + lots of other volunteer/work experiences, VP of student council
Rock solid LORs
Zero research, 1 presentation at a service leadership conference

Interested in cardio & teaching. Applying to top 20 academic programs but hoping to get into top 5.

That's just not going to happen. Sorry. You don't have what the "Top X" programs are looking for other than your steps and AOA. The other folks looking at those programs come from Top X programs themselves, have research and pubs, etc. I'm not saying you shouldn't apply (it's just money), and I'd be happy for you if I was wrong. But you need to dramatically broaden your application well beyond the "Top 20" (whatever that means), or you're going to be disappointed.

 

[toastee]

Hello!

I applied to IM with below average scores. I applied to over 150 academic programs (basically I went to each state and picked any program affiliated with an university). I haven't gotten any interview invitations and got rejected from a lower ranked program already.

Stats:
School: Top 20 US MD
Step Scores: 207 Step 1, Step 2 CK (pending), Step 2 CS (passed)
Grades: P in medicine core, H in SubI. Rest is a mixture of P, HP and P.
Research: 5 peer reviewed publications in IM, Urology, Pediatrics. A ton of posters, oral presentations, etc.
AOA: No
Rank: Bottom 50%

My question is, should I be applying for more programs right now? I didn't apply to many community programs probably only 5-10... Are programs waiting on my Step 2 CK score? If my Step 2 CK score comes out in mid October is that going to severely limit my interviews (because most of the Interview invitations have gone out)? Thank you!

No, programs are waiting on your MSPE letter coming out on October 1st. You'll definitely be able to get into an academic program in the U.S. But for right now, I wouldn't stress about it until the 3rd week of October.

 

[alias80138]

208 usmle and 541 comlex. I want to be in Colorado or West of Colorado, California of course preferred as I have college and family ties there. I don't mind DO residencies. Critical Care/Pulm fellowship would be the goal. I thought I wanted to be family all along until my internal rotation the past two months and loved the in depth nature of internal. Bottom half of class, 83% average in classes, three Cs, the rest Bs, two As, one honor. Good extracurriculars, volunteering to teach ESL, and completing a research project . Getting great evaluations and letters so far (on 3rd rotation), but got a pass on internal (first rotation). Haven't taken other shelfs yet, and feel like I know how to better study now. I do much better on the wards and in person than on the shelves. Should I stick with family or is this possible?

 

[IgAddict]

non-us IMG
Step 1: 233
Step 2: 221
Step 2CS: Pass
YOG: 2010
IM residency +4 years working at univ. hospital in Brazil
2 years of research at VERY BIG cancer center (3 posters - 3 pubs)
3 LOR's from cancer center/ 1 from Dept chair ( couldn't leave my research project)
125 applications / 0 IV

when do they start arriving ? my step scores suck , but i should a least receive 1, right ?

 

[lulu09]

Hello!

I applied to IM with below average scores. I applied to over 150 academic programs (basically I went to each state and picked any program affiliated with an university). I haven't gotten any interview invitations and got rejected from a lower ranked program already.

Stats:
School: Top 20 US MD
Step Scores: 207 Step 1, Step 2 CK (pending), Step 2 CS (passed)
Grades: P in medicine core, H in SubI. Rest is a mixture of P, HP and P.
Research: 5 peer reviewed publications in IM, Urology, Pediatrics. A ton of posters, oral presentations, etc.
AOA: No
Rank: Bottom 50%

My question is, should I be applying for more programs right now? I didn't apply to many community programs probably only 5-10... Are programs waiting on my Step 2 CK score? If my Step 2 CK score comes out in mid October is that going to severely limit my interviews (because most of the Interview invitations have gone out)? Thank you!

You'll be OK -- I had a very similar application during the 2014-15 cycle (same caliber of med school, same step 1 score, same clerkship grades, same rank) and matched easily at a major academic medical center. I did, however, have an early CK (although I don't think this will matter too much at this time - the places that care won't invite you until they have a score, and the places that don't care will invite you anyways).

I attended 24 interviews, about 1/3 community and 2/3 academic, and I think I applied to 65 programs or something like that. I was more geographically limited (didn't want to go to Nowhere, USA) so I didn't apply to academic places in rural states and instead applied to community programs in urban places but was fine in the end. Just be prepared that most "top 20" places won't even really glance at your application (I had 1 other "top 20" interview and that's it). If you think your home institution might consider you and you want to stay, lobby hard now, as it will probably be your best program. I think you already know this after you got your Step 1 score, but just being realistic.

 

[ac2012]

Med school rank: state school, NE, mid-tier
USMLE Step 1: 222
USMLE Step 2: 231
CS: Pass
Class rank: 3rd quartile
AOA: no
GHHS: yes
Grades: HP all of 3rd year including medicine, H-subI and H-ICU
Research: 2-1st author publications, 1 3rd author pub, 3 abstracts, 12 posters at national and regional conferences, national award for research abstract
EC: Lots of volunteer work and leadership
LOR: strong as far as I know
Other: at the NIH for six years before medical school

Interested in staying on the east coast
Reach: UVA, Jefferson
Moderate Reach: GWU, Tufts, Temple, Jackson, Brown, Montefiore, Georgetown, UMD, VCU, St. Lukes, Jacobi, Drexel, U Conn, Rush, WHC, Dartmouth, U Mass, SUNY



So far I've received 1 interview at one of the moderates I'm interested in and 9 other interviews. Worried my steps and overall grades are too low for the schools above.

 

[Boricua27]

@Boricua27 It's very risky applying to only 10 programs with such a low step1 score...

By the way, there are only 8 IM programs listed in AAMC for PR

Hi w19, thank you for your reply. I will apply to those 8, among others. I think I may have a shot at programs with hispanic communities that are looking for bilingual candidates. Which programs would you recommend for me in Florida? Thanks.

Florida IM programs are:
FL Atlantis University of Miami/JFK Medical Center Palm Beach Regional GME Consortium Program 1401131535 P
FL Aventura Aventura Hospital and Medical Center Program 1401100924 P
FL Boca Raton Florida Atlantic University Charles E. Schmidt College of Medicine Program 1401100923 P
FL Bradenton Blake Medical Center Program 1401100944 P
FL Bradenton Manatee Memorial Hospital Program 1401100948 P
FL Brandon Brandon Regional Hospital Program 1401100940 P
FL Brooksville Oak Hill Hospital Program 1401100928 P
FL Fort Lauderdale Broward Health Medical Center Program 1401100945 P
FL Fort Lauderdale University of Miami Miller School of Medicine/Holy Cross Hospital Program 1401100929 P
FL Gainesville University of Central Florida College of Medicine/HCA GME Consortium (Gainesville) Program 1401100938 P
FL Gainesville University of Florida Program 1401121098 P
FL Hialeah Palmetto General Hospital Program 1401100953 P
FL Hudson Regional Medical Center Bayonet Point Program New Program! 1401100951 P
FL Jacksonville Mayo Clinic College of Medicine and Science (Jacksonville) Program 1401121509 P
FL Jacksonville University of Florida College of Medicine Jacksonville Program 1401121099 P
FL Largo Largo Medical Center Program 1401100946 P
FL Miami Jackson Memorial Hospital/Jackson Health System Program 1401121100 P
FL Miami Kendall Regional Medical Center Program 1401100926 P
FL Miami Beach Mount Sinai Medical Center of Florida Program 1401112101 P
FL Naples Naples Community Hospital, Inc Program 1401100942 P
FL Ocala University of Central Florida College of Medicine/HCA GME Consortium (Ocala) Program 1401100939 P
FL Orange Park Orange Park Medical Center Program 1401100937 P
FL Orlando Florida Hospital Medical Center Program 1401131539 P
FL Orlando Orlando Health Program 1401131102 P
FL Orlando University of Central Florida College of Medicine/HCA GME Consortium Program 1401100909 P
FL Pembroke Pines Memorial Healthcare System (Hollywood, Florida) Program 1401100950 P
FL Pensacola University of Florida College of Medicine (Pensacola) Program 1401100949 P
FL Sarasota Florida State University College of Medicine (Sarasota) Program 1401100947 P
FL St Petersburg Northside Hospital Program 1401100943 P
FL Tallahassee Florida State University College of Medicine (Tallahassee) Program 1401100894 P
FL Tampa University of South Florida Morsani Program 1401121104 P
FL Weston Cleveland Clinic (Florida) Program 1401121528 P

 

[W19]

@Boricua27 I think you should apply to almost all assuming you have the money. But your chance at UMiami, USF, UF Gainesville and Mayo will be slim.

 

[Redpancreas]

Med school rank: state school, NE, mid-tier
USMLE Step 1: 222
USMLE Step 2: 231

Interested in staying on the east coast
Reach: UVA, Jefferson
Moderate Reach: GWU, Tufts, Temple, Jackson, Brown, Montefiore, Georgetown, UMD, VCU, St. Lukes, Jacobi, Drexel, U Conn, Rush, WHC, Dartmouth, U Mass, SUNY



So far I've received 1 interview at one of the moderates I'm interested in and 9 other interviews. Worried my steps and overall grades are too low for the schools above.

Jersey schools should also belong in your moderate reach column regardless of what Doximity says.

 

[ac2012]

Jersey schools should also belong in your moderate reach column regardless of what Doximity says.

Thank you endoscopy! I have applied to the Jersey schools as well. WAMC for the schools above?

 

[Redpancreas]

Thank you endoscopy! I have applied to the Jersey schools as well. WAMC for the schools above?

I'm applying too so I won't be advising anyone on this unless I get to help my future PD. Also my opinion on these places is based on my own thread-scouring. What I'll say is if you're still in the running for VCU, you were more competitive than me for them and all my IIs are in the tier of your mod reaches. Good luck 🙂

 

[AnalisCanalis]

Med school rank: Non-US FMG (Need J1 Visa)
USMLE Step 1: 270+
USMLE Step 2: Will take next year, should do ok
Year of graduation: Mid-2018, should apply next cycle
Class rank: Top quartile
USCE: 3 months of clerkships in university IM programs, 1+ yr research experience in North America
Research: 10+ PubMed-indexed original research papers (2 first authors for now, many 2nd and 3rd authorships)
LOR: All US (1 research mentor + 3 US physicians)

Do I have a solid chance at research-intensive university programs (think Doximity top 50+, even though that list is reviled here)?

yes

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Hey everyone, originally liked Ortho the most, but I've been leaning a lot more toward GI lately. Would appreciate any feedback, I'm in the middle of third year.

Med school: UM Miller
USMLE Step 1: 246
USMLE Step 2: Will take right after third year
Class rank: Upper 2nd quartile
AOA: Most likely not
Honors: My school doesn't do Honors or High Pass, it's just P/F with a number grade. B's in FM and ambulatory med, IM grade not back yet, currently in surgery rotation
Research: 2 Ortho projects (1 submitted as abstract - 1st or 2nd author, the other not submitted yet - 4th author maybe? Both will hopefully become published by next application cycle). Looking to get into GI research very soon.
EC: Average
LOR: None yet

I don't want to go further north than Pennsylvania or further west than Missouri (except for UTSW b/c my school sends a bunch of people there every year).

Reaches: Duke, Penn, UTSW
More likely but still tough?: Vandy, Wash U, Georgetown, UNC, UPMC, Jefferson, UVA, Cleveland Clinic, Baylor
Target?: UF, Iowa, Indiana, Wake Forest, MUSC, Miami (home program), Cincy, Tulane, USF, VCU, SLU, UK, Louisville, Mizzou, Carolinas

Basically, I'm not sure of my competitiveness at all due to it being still middle of third year and me not knowing which programs in the south, southeast, midwest, and east coast I should be applying to realistically. Thanks in advance, y'all.

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Hey everyone, originally liked Ortho the most, but I've been leaning a lot more toward GI lately. Would appreciate any feedback, I'm in the middle of third year.

Med school: UM Miller
USMLE Step 1: 246
USMLE Step 2: Will take right after third year
Class rank: Upper 2nd quartile
AOA: Most likely not
Honors: My school doesn't do Honors or High Pass, it's just P/F with a number grade. B's in FM and ambulatory med, IM grade not back yet, currently in surgery rotation
Research: 2 Ortho projects (1 submitted as abstract - 1st or 2nd author, the other not submitted yet - 4th author maybe? Both will hopefully become published by next application cycle). Looking to get into GI research very soon.
EC: Average
LOR: None yet

I don't want to go further north than Pennsylvania or further west than Missouri (except for UTSW b/c my school sends a bunch of people there every year).

Reaches: Duke, Penn, UTSW
More likely but still tough?: Vandy, Wash U, Georgetown, UNC, UPMC, Jefferson, UVA, Cleveland Clinic, Baylor
Target?: UF, Iowa, Indiana, Wake Forest, MUSC, Miami (home program), Cincy, Tulane, USF, VCU, SLU, UK, Louisville, Mizzou, Carolinas

Basically, I'm not sure of my competitiveness at all due to it being still middle of third year and me not knowing which programs in the south, southeast, midwest, and east coast I should be applying to realistically. Thanks in advance, y'all.

I doubt you'll get more than 1 interview at Duke, Penn, UTSW, Vandy, or Wash U (mega-reach group).

Reach programs include Pitt and Emory (if you chose to apply there)

More realistic programs include Georgetown, GW, UVA, UNC, Wake, MUSC, FL programs, Iowa, Tulane, CCF, Baylor, Jefferson. You should apply to UMD and UAB as well as they would be in your geographic region of interest.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

I doubt you'll get more than 1 interview at Duke, Penn, UTSW, Vandy, or Wash U (mega-reach group).

Reach programs include Pitt and Emory (if you chose to apply there)

More realistic programs include Georgetown, GW, UVA, UNC, Wake, MUSC, FL programs, Iowa, Tulane, CCF, Baylor, Jefferson. You should apply to UMD and UAB as well as they would be in your geographic region of interest.

Oh wow I completely forgot about Emory being in the south lol.

Dang, didn’t realize the competition was that fierce for all the programs right below the big 4 and one more level down. Wait, so does this mean everyone applying to my “realistic” list of programs will have 240+ steps, average to better than average research, average ECs, mid tier school, etc.? I thought it was not difficult to match somewhere good for IM for applicants of my caliber.

Also, would having more research done in 10 months make any difference?

 

[Señor S]

Oh wow I completely forgot about Emory being in the south lol.

Dang, didn’t realize the competition was that fierce for all the programs right below the big 4 and one more level down. Wait, so does this mean everyone applying to my “realistic” list of programs will have 240+ steps, average to better than average research, average ECs, mid tier school, etc.? I thought it was not difficult to match somewhere good for IM for applicants of my caliber.

Also, would having more research done in 10 months make any difference?

Your stats are good but at every one of your reaches a typical matched resident will have some combination of 250+ Step 1, top 20 school, AOA and 1+ first-author journal articles, none of which you have. Which isn't to say you have no chance, but it will be tough. Remember that the "average" for IM includes a bunch of low-end community programs that match almost exclusively DOs/IMGs (if they match anyone at all); the SD is much higher than it is for, say, plastic surgery.

With that said if you apply to all the programs you listed you'll match, most likely in the "tough" group. Agree with adding UAB and UMD and Emory. Would also consider Case Western and OSU. If you were willing to relax your geographic restrictions (which I admit I don't really get) just a tad you could add Mayo and Wisconsin.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Your stats are good but at every one of your reaches a typical matched resident will have some combination of 250+ Step 1, top 20 school, AOA and 1+ first-author journal articles, none of which you have. Which isn't to say you have no chance, but it will be tough. Remember that the "average" for IM includes a bunch of low-end community programs that match almost exclusively DOs/IMGs (if they match anyone at all); the SD is much higher than it is for, say, plastic surgery.

With that said if you apply to all the programs you listed you'll match, most likely in the "tough" group. Agree with adding UAB and UMD and Emory. Would also consider Case Western and OSU. If you were willing to relax your geographic restrictions (which I admit I don't really get) just a tad you could add Mayo and Wisconsin.

Thanks! I’ll def add all these schools you and tachybrady mentioned. My geographic restrictions come from me wanting to stay in the south (I’m from NC) and not really wanting to live somewhere that is super cold most of the time. I’m also not a huge fan of big cities and would rather not train at or eventually practice in one of them. Also no programs out west because COL and no connections probs mean no chances...unless there are some great west coast programs that would be realistic for me?

 

[agnes5]

Oh wow I completely forgot about Emory being in the south lol.

Dang, didn’t realize the competition was that fierce for all the programs right below the big 4 and one more level down. Wait, so does this mean everyone applying to my “realistic” list of programs will have 240+ steps, average to better than average research, average ECs, mid tier school, etc.? I thought it was not difficult to match somewhere good for IM for applicants of my caliber.

Also, would having more research done in 10 months make any difference?

This is often the perception that a lot of people have unfortunately. The top programs in IM are all super competitive. It doesn't help that the people who will eventually match at the big 4 are also applying to 20-25 programs each.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

This is often the perception that a lot of people have unfortunately. The top programs in IM are all super competitive. It doesn't help that the people who will eventually match at the big 4 are also applying to 20-25 programs each.

Does this mean that I and other applicants like me are doomed to only match at mid-tier programs at best? Are there really that many superstars applying IM nowadays?

 

[gutonc]

Does this mean that I and other applicants like me are doomed to only match at mid-tier programs at best? Are there really that many superstars applying IM nowadays?

When you consider that "mid-tier" includes a lot of really amazing programs, and the "Top X" programs are basically just the places your grandma has heard of, then yes...you are "doomed" to match somewhere that will provide you excellent training, good research opportunities and a high likelihood of matching a fellowship of your choosing.

Sorry for your loss. Thoughts and prayers...thoughts and prayers.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

When you consider that "mid-tier" includes a lot of really amazing programs, and the "Top X" programs are basically just the places your grandma has heard of, then yes...you are "doomed" to match somewhere that will provide you excellent training, good research opportunities and a high likelihood of matching a fellowship of your choosing.

Sorry for your loss. Thoughts and prayers...thoughts and prayers.

Sorry, I was not trying to discredit how good mid-tier programs are even tho I might have come off that way. And I am not obsessed with chasing prestige, I just want to train somewhere great and be able to match into GI later if I still desire that then. Thank you everyone for all the feedback so far. I will probably provide an updated WAMC post once it comes much closer to application time.

 

[Señor S]

Thanks! I’ll def add all these schools you and tachybrady mentioned. My geographic restrictions come from me wanting to stay in the south (I’m from NC) and not really wanting to live somewhere that is super cold most of the time. I’m also not a huge fan of big cities and would rather not train at or eventually practice in one of them. Also no programs out west because COL and no connections probs mean no chances...unless there are some great west coast programs that would be realistic for me?

Well FWIW I don't think Rochester and Madison are too terribly much colder than Cleveland or Iowa City. But I hear you. Your list is good and you should have no problem matching imo.

 

[Deecee2DO]

It's the equivalent of the pre-med 38 MCAT/3.9 should I apply to Carribean?

LMAO

 

[rochester2019]

Hi folks,

I'm someone who became interested in internal medicine late. I thought I was going to be a surgeon of some sort for the longest (and still might), but I really liked my IM rotation, and loved my Cardiology electives. Unfortunately however, IM was my first rotation, and I only got a High Pass as I was still getting my bearings (Honors is for the top 15%). But since, I've mainly done IM, and luckily had the CHief of Cardiology as my preceptor (who told me I was one of the best med students he'd worked with, and is willing to write me a strong LOR)

Here are my Stats:
Med school: In the 25-35 range (should not be hard to figure out given my username lol)

Step 1: 259

Grades: FM: High Pass, IM High Pass, Surgery : Honors. Psych: Honors. Neuro: Honors I havent taken OBGYN or Peds yet.

LOR: Will probably be strong

Research: 3 papers (in surgery), and likely 2-3 abstracts (and maybe 1 paper) in urology. Am also starting a Cardiology project with the chief of Cards

What are my chances at the Top 10 IM programs? Top 20? I'd really like to do Cardiology

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Hi folks,

I'm someone who became interested in internal medicine late. I thought I was going to be a surgeon of some sort for the longest (and still might), but I really liked my IM rotation, and loved my Cardiology electives. Unfortunately however, IM was my first rotation, and I only got a High Pass as I was still getting my bearings (Honors is for the top 15%). But since, I've mainly done IM, and luckily had the CHief of Cardiology as my preceptor (who told me I was one of the best med students he'd worked with, and is willing to write me a strong LOR)

Here are my Stats:
Med school: In the 25-35 range (should not be hard to figure out given my username lol)

Step 1: 259

Grades: FM: High Pass, IM High Pass, Surgery : Honors. Psych: Honors. Neuro: Honors I havent taken OBGYN or Peds yet.

LOR: Will probably be strong

Research: 3 papers (in surgery), and likely 2-3 abstracts (and maybe 1 paper) in urology. Am also starting a Cardiology project with the chief of Cards

What are my chances at the Top 10 IM programs? Top 20? I'd really like to do Cardiology

Your chances at top 20 programs are high. The very top is a crapshoot so I'm sure you'll get an invite MGH but not to BWH (or vice versa). I assume you're from Rochester; Charles Lowenstein is very well connected and programs with a cardiologist PD will know of him. You'll match somewhere great. After you match, focus on being the best IM resident you can be and getting cardiology research done.

 

[wiloghby]

Hi folks,

I'm someone who became interested in internal medicine late. I thought I was going to be a surgeon of some sort for the longest (and still might), but I really liked my IM rotation, and loved my Cardiology electives. Unfortunately however, IM was my first rotation, and I only got a High Pass as I was still getting my bearings (Honors is for the top 15%). But since, I've mainly done IM, and luckily had the CHief of Cardiology as my preceptor (who told me I was one of the best med students he'd worked with, and is willing to write me a strong LOR)

Here are my Stats:
Med school: In the 25-35 range (should not be hard to figure out given my username lol)

Step 1: 259

Grades: FM: High Pass, IM High Pass, Surgery : Honors. Psych: Honors. Neuro: Honors I havent taken OBGYN or Peds yet.

LOR: Will probably be strong

Research: 3 papers (in surgery), and likely 2-3 abstracts (and maybe 1 paper) in urology. Am also starting a Cardiology project with the chief of Cards

What are my chances at the Top 10 IM programs? Top 20? I'd really like to do Cardiology

My experience and that of my classmates this year seems to be that a nice Step 1 score in and of itself is not enough for an interview at the Top 10 programs.

Research will help, but lack of Honors in IM plus a lack of AOA will hold you back at a lot of places. So my advice would be: 1) Apply for AOA and cross your fingers and 2) take your medicine AI early in 4th year (June or July) and get Honors with a strong letter.

I'm only applying this year and haven't matched yet, but in terms of landing interviews, AOA & Step 1 250+ & H in IM and/or AI & some research & glowing LORs will get you interviews at many (but not all) top 10 programs, and plenty of top 20 programs. Whether or not it's good enough to match? I'll let you know on March 16.

 

[polylux]

Currently in middle of my third year and wanted to get a bit of guidance moving forwards. My end goal is Pulm/CC, maybe IP.

Med school: DO
Step 1: 250+
Level 1: 670+
Class rank: 2nd quartile
Clinical grades: all honors thus far, including IM, Pulm/CC, Surg
LORs: strong thus far but only have 2 atm
Research: 1 first author, 1 case report, 3 posters, 1 oral presentation

My questions:
1. For a solid DO applicant, what is the upper limit for higher tier academic IM programs? Do I have any chance at places like UNC, Duke, Tufts, UPMC, U Colorado, Northwestern, BU, UCLA, Yale? Am I solid applicant for places like UConn, UMass, Rutgers, Cooper, Lahey, CA programs like UC Davis/Irvine/SD, Kaiser Santa Clara, etc?

2. From what I understand, away rotations in IM aren't typically necessary -- but should I consider doing away rotations at some reach programs do being a DO to boost my app? What locations would be most "worth it" for away rotations?

 

[coffeeclothesaddict]

Currently in middle of my third year and wanted to get a bit of guidance moving forwards. My end goal is Pulm/CC, maybe IP.

Med school: DO
Step 1: 250+
Level 1: 670+
Class rank: 2nd quartile
Clinical grades: all honors thus far, including IM, Pulm/CC, Surg
LORs: strong thus far but only have 2 atm
Research: 1 first author, 1 case report, 3 posters, 1 oral presentation

My questions:
1. For a solid DO applicant, what is the upper limit for higher tier academic IM programs? Do I have any chance at places like UNC, Duke, Tufts, UPMC, U Colorado, Northwestern, BU, UCLA, Yale? Am I solid applicant for places like UConn, UMass, Rutgers, Cooper, Lahey, CA programs like UC Davis/Irvine/SD, Kaiser Santa Clara, etc?

2. From what I understand, away rotations in IM aren't typically necessary -- but should I consider doing away rotations at some reach programs do being a DO to boost my app? What locations would be most "worth it" for away rotations?

From experience you're definitely beyond a solid applicant for UConn, UMass, Rutgers, Cooper. I cant comment on the other programs you listed which are more competitive, but your scores are as good as they can be really. Theres still a lot of DO bias from what ive seen, but you did great and will get lots of interviews if you apply broadly. good job! If youre willing to work extremely hard aways can be a huge help at getting your foot in the door, but don't be surprised if they dont turn into an interview for IM. Its much more important in other specialities. IM doesnt care so much about aways, but if its your number one program- go, work hard, and make it known that you are applying and its your first choice.

 

[Señor S]

1. For a solid DO applicant, what is the upper limit for higher tier academic IM programs? Do I have any chance at places like UNC, Duke, Tufts, UPMC, U Colorado, Northwestern, BU, UCLA, Yale?

Alas, probably not.

Am I solid applicant for places like UConn, UMass, Rutgers, Cooper, Lahey, CA programs like UC Davis/Irvine/SD, Kaiser Santa Clara, etc?

I suppose so, but there's a lot of daylight between these places and your first group, and you're missing a lot of much better programs that sometimes/regularly take DOs.

From what I understand, away rotations in IM aren't typically necessary -- but should I consider doing away rotations at some reach programs do being a DO to boost my app? What locations would be most "worth it" for away rotations?

I think DOs are one group where aways will generally do more good than harm, which is to say that you still probably won't match to an anti-DO place, but you at least might get some consideration versus having your application trashed sight-unseen. The locations where you'd probably have the most luck are those that currently have DO residents or have had them at some point in the recent past such as UColorado, UWashington, OHSU, Mayo, maybe Yale?

 

[polylux]

Thanks for the replies! I appreciate any insight. Just trying to get a realistic gauge of my chances in the upper echelons of academic IM.

I suppose so, but there's a lot of daylight between these places and your first group, and you're missing a lot of much better programs that sometimes/regularly take DOs.

I primarily listed the last group as a "am I safe to make these my 'safeties' or do I need to apply to more community programs" kind of thing. But to be honest, I'm still a bit unfamiliar with what counts as good programs vs not, could you clarify what programs you are referring to here? Thank you very much in advance!

 

[Dwan]

Thanks for the replies! I appreciate any insight. Just trying to get a realistic gauge of my chances in the upper echelons of academic IM.



I primarily listed the last group as a "am I safe to make these my 'safeties' or do I need to apply to more community programs" kind of thing. But to be honest, I'm still a bit unfamiliar with what counts as good programs vs not, could you clarify what programs you are referring to here? Thank you very much in advance!

I wouldn't consider the UC's as safety for a DO, in particular not UCSD which is in line with several on your "higher tier" list (although you should apply).

 

[nontrad78]

OMS-III historically interested in FM, but now considering hospitalist work, so looking a little more at IM programs now. Here's my numbers:
Step 1: 214
COMLEX 1: 566
Class Rank: 2nd quartile
Should have strong letters, and high clinical grades.
Anyone have any input on what my chances to Texas (particularly Houston and Austin) IM programs would be? I'm quite sure Baylor and Methodist are not in striking distance, but would UTMB, McGovern (UT Houston), Dell (UT Austin) also be stretches?

 

[W19]

OMS-III historically interested in FM, but now considering hospitalist work, so looking a little more at IM programs now. Here's my numbers:
Step 1: 214
COMLEX 1: 566
Class Rank: 2nd quartile
Should have strong letters, and high clinical grades.
Anyone have any input on what my chances to Texas (particularly Houston and Austin) IM programs would be? I'm quite sure Baylor and Methodist are not in striking distance, but would UTMB, McGovern (UT Houston), Dell (UT Austin) also be stretches?

Did not know if Methodist was such a good program... I thought methodist was the weakest program among all the ones you listed.

By the way, I got an invite at methodist. FWIW, step1~ 220 and step2~mid 220s. I go to a low tier US MD.

 

[nontrad78]

Did not know if Methodist was such a good program... I thought methodist was the weakest program among all the ones you listed.

By the way, I got an invite at methodist. FWIW, step1~ 220 and step2~mid 220s. I go to a low tier US MD.

That's interesting, Methodist lists their minimum Step 1 on FREIDA as being 230. Then again, their average is listed as 221-240. Guess the numbers they list there are not always reflective of what the program is really looking. That leaves the door open even more potentially. Thanks for the response. I guess a lot will depend on how I do on Step 2 as well.

 

[W19]

That's interesting, Methodist lists their minimum Step 1 on FREIDA as being 230. Then again, their average is listed as 221-240. Guess the numbers they list there are not always reflective of what the program is really looking. That leaves the door open even more potentially. Thanks for the response. I guess a lot will depend on how I do on Step 2 as well.

I think if you do well on step2 (240+), you might have a shot at most of these programs except Baylor... I don't think these numbers in FREIDA are reliable.

 

[nontrad78]

I think if you do well on step2 (240+), you might have a shot at most of these programs except Baylor... I don't think these numbers in FREIDA are reliable.

Yeah, I just looked at the Methodist IM homepage, and their minimum USMLE is 220, but I do meet their minimum COMLEX. Not sure if that means I'm in good standing for them or not. I'll have to start making some calls here soon to get more info.
Whatever the case, I agree that doing well on Step 2 is going to be pretty key for me at this point.

 

[Cards7]

Haha so much trolling

 

[AnalisCanalis]

Hi guys I just need a bit of assurance here that I can match lol. I am a current 4th year who has applied for internal medicine and has had 10 interviews. My step 1 and 2 are in 250s and 260s respectively and I am an AOA. The rest of the application is pretty generic with decent research and extracurricular stuff.

So, I have done only 10 interviews and I was wondering if that is good enough to match. According to NRMP, the median rank order list for matched US allopathic seniors is 11. So this has made me a little worried. What do you guys think regarding my chances of matching?

Thanks!

Step 1 and CK below 270? Yeah, you probably won't match.
/s

 

[wiloghby]

Hi guys I just need a bit of assurance here that I can match lol. I am a current 4th year who has applied for internal medicine and has had 10 interviews. My step 1 and 2 are in 250s and 260s respectively and I am an AOA. The rest of the application is pretty generic with decent research and extracurricular stuff.

So, I have done only 10 interviews and I was wondering if that is good enough to match. According to NRMP, the median rank order list for matched US allopathic seniors is 11. So this has made me a little worried. What do you guys think regarding my chances of matching?

Thanks!

words...just...no words...wow.

 

[unnumzaan]

How someone can get this far and be so daft is beyond me.

 

[W19]

Med school: Low-tier/unranked MD school in Northeast
Step 1: 240s
Class rank: 1st or 2nd quartile (not released yet and school does not have AOA).
Clinical grades: H in IM, psych; HP in Surg, ObGyn; P in peds, family.
Research: 1 first author publication, 3 middle authors publications, 1 international conference oral (1st author), 5 national conference posters (4 1st authors)

What are my chances at matching at a top tier program on the west coast (UCSD, UCLA, UCSF, Stanford) given my schools lack of prestige and my less than perfect grades? Not dead set on matching at these places but was wondering if my research could possibly make up for some of my weaknesses.

Not good to be honest...

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Med school: Low-tier/unranked MD school in Northeast
Step 1: 240s
Class rank: 1st or 2nd quartile (not released yet and school does not have AOA).
Clinical grades: H in IM, psych; HP in Surg, ObGyn; P in peds, family.
Research: 1 first author publication, 3 middle authors publications, 1 international conference oral (1st author), 5 national conference posters (4 1st authors)

What are my chances at matching at a top tier program on the west coast (UCSD, UCLA, UCSF, Stanford) given my schools lack of prestige and my less than perfect grades? Not dead set on matching at these places but was wondering if my research could possibly make up for some of my weaknesses.

Agree with W19. You probably won't get more than 1 interview offers from those 4 places you mentioned. For reference, I had step scores above 260, H in everything + AOA, less research, and only got 1 interview (admittedly at UCSF, quick rejections from the other 3). IM is very competitive at the top. Doesn't hurt to apply, but I'd target Washington,Oregon,USC,etc and even they might be reaches unless you have very strong reasons to head back to the West Coast.

 

[ortnakas]

@bletkqru before you totally panic, you're a competitive IM applicant for a lot of programs-- just not those four. If you're slightly less geographically and "prestige"-ly picky, you'll land somewhere good.

 

[helicasejeans]

Med school: Mid-tier MD program
Step 1: 254
Class rank: 1st quartile, AOA not available to apply to yet
Clinical grades: H in IM and Surgery, HP in Peds, rest of the rotations are yet to come
Research: 1 home institution presentation, no publications, 3 current research projects
Lots of community service volunteering and a paid position during M2/M3 year as an M1 tutor
Letters: 2 strong, hopefully will get a strong sub-I letter during summer

I really want to go back home to California, where all my family and my SO live. How competitive am I for the top-tier and mid-tier programs, especially with my glaring lack of research publications? I know that top-tier places love research, so I'm trying to squeeze something out of my current projects ASAP. It would really help me to get your opinions so I could decide on which away/audition rotations to shoot for.

 

[HouseOfTheKnick]

Med school rank: Top 30
Step 1: 247 in 2012 when avg was 224 - crazy how things change, Will take CK prior to apps
Class rank: Top Quartile
AOA: Yes
3rd year grades: H: IM/Peds/OB HP: Rest, this was good enough for top quartile
Research: Phd from a Top 4, 14 publications - 2 solid first authors, many 2nd authors, a couple of patents
Extracurriculars, etc: Strong leadership - was president of class during 1 and 2nd year, developed and lead fundraising effort to fund open and fund a student run clinic; strong teaching background

Looking to go into Cardio

WAMC for: MGH/BWH/UCSF/JHH/Penn/Columbia/Duke/Vandy/UPMC/Cornell/NW/Chicago/Stanford/UMich/BID/Mayo/UTSW

I think you are very competitive for those elite programs. Probably will not get an interview at all, because while your Step 1 is very good for medicine, it is not outstanding, especially for the MGH's of the world. I would not be surprised if you get multiple interviews from the "Big 4" (MGH/BWH/UCSF/JHH) and many of the rest that you mentioned. If you interview decently, will probably match a top 10 program.