Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

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Did well on CK, 260+. Should I update programs through email (updated on ERAS already)? @gutonc . Not sure if some programs screened me out in these 10 days because of lack of step 2 score. Did well on step 1 as well.
 
docy17 said:
Hey guys, my stats

Non-US FMG, EU (Need J1)

USMLE Step 1: 248
USMLE Step 2: 260
USMLE Step 2 CS: Pass 1st time
Year of graduation: 2015 , no gaps (working in military hosp in home country)
Volunteer exp: medical service at refugee RC in Europe
Other: school of military officers graduate

USCE: not yet
Research: 5 pubs oral and posters (4 first name, 1 second name) in home country medical conferences
LORs: not yet

WAMC to match a descent uni or uni affiliated IM program + how can i ramp up my chances and solidify my bio please??
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I imagine pretty good. Do some US clinical rotations and work hard. You should be fine.
 
Hello!

I am an MBBS graduate from NUS Singapore, currently in my intern year. I hope to undertake IM residency as well as general and interventional cardiology fellowships in the US. I have a few queries regarding the process, would really appreciate your input.

My USMLE step scores taken are as follows:
Step 1: 265 Step 2 CK: 270 Step 2 CS: Pass Step 3: 252

1. I understand that time since graduation is an important factor in residency admissions. In Singapore, after 5 years of medical school and 1-year internship, doctors have a 5-year bond with the Singapore government. As a male who disrupted from National Service, I will also be serving 1.5 years out of these 5 years in the Singapore army as a Medical Officer. The bond is valued at 500000 SGD, hence it does not make sense to break it from a financial standpoint.

2. Are my chances of obtaining IM residency and subsequent fellowships in the US affected due to my time since graduation when I will be starting residency? Is it possible to apply to and secure a US IM residency spot and apply for deferment to start the residency later once my bond with Singapore is completed?

3. What are the best ways to obtain opportunities for US clinical experience and recommendation letters? Would letters from doctors attached to Duke-NUS medical school in Singapore suffice?

4. Between clinical research and clinical medicine, what is viewed more favorably in IM residency applications? Would someone with extensive research experience and publications in public health be preferred over another person who has not had many publications but has been in active clinical practice?

5. Do residency programs sponsor the H1B1 visa for their residents?

Would deeply appreciate any answers to these questions. Thank you very much.
 
AORiverContra said:
Hey guys, here are my stats:

From California, attending mid-tier MD school out of state.
Step 1: 235-239
Step 2: 241-245
M3 clerkships: mostly pass, I got a pass in IM. Got honors in 4th year subI
Publications: 3 poster presentations
ECs: some volunteering, leadership positions during med school

I would like to attend an academic program in South/Southwest region. Any idea which programs I would be competitive for? I have applied but only have an interview from my home program so far, so wondering if I should add more.
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UAB
 
WAMC at top tier programs? Mid 250s step 1, good but not great northeastern school, 3 pubs (surgical subspecialty) with 5-6 abstracts/posters and working on project in IM field now, preclinical top 10% or so, now midway through third year w/ 3 HP and 1 honors in medicine. Standard ECs and unlikely to make AOA but we haven’t found out yet for sure.
 
WPmed0209 said:
WAMC at top tier programs? Mid 250s step 1, good but not great northeastern school, 3 pubs (surgical subspecialty) with 5-6 abstracts/posters and working on project in IM field now, preclinical top 10% or so, now midway through third year w/ 3 HP and 1 honors in medicine. Standard ECs and unlikely to make AOA but we haven’t found out yet for sure.
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You'll get a number of IVs to top 20 programs. AOA would really, really help and all but guarantee you'll match at top 20. Otherwise, apply broadly and find out.
 
Really want to do a GI fellowship and end up at a decent medicine program to set me up well for this. What are my chances?
Step 1: 250
Step 2: 275
Top 25% of my class at a mid-tier USMD school with Honors in my medicine clerkship.
5 first-author pubs in ophtho (had a last minute change of heart and decided to apply medicine)
Haven't done a medicine sub-I. Had fourth year geared towards optho but hated my electives in it 🙁
Thanks in advance!
 
WPmed0209 said:
WAMC at top tier programs? Mid 250s step 1, good but not great northeastern school, 3 pubs (surgical subspecialty) with 5-6 abstracts/posters and working on project in IM field now, preclinical top 10% or so, now midway through third year w/ 3 HP and 1 honors in medicine. Standard ECs and unlikely to make AOA but we haven’t found out yet for sure.
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@WPmed0209 I think the above poster is overestimating your odds. You have very good but not great step 1 and most everything else seems average to below average for top programs. Things that help you get those top 20 interviews include top medical school, AOA, phd / very strong research, URM, very strong / unique extracurriculars. You don't seem to have any of that. You should certainly match a strong university program just probably not one of the places you were thinking when you said "top tier programs."
 
Any advice is appreciated:

USMD Step 1 <215, Step 2 yet to take
all Passes/High Passes third year including Pass in IM. Clinical evals were good, but shelf scores brought my overall grade down
4 pubs, 1/2 author in most, 3 poster presentations
multiple ECs
Strong LORs

Looking at mid tier/solid community IM programs in Northeast. Do i have a shot?
 
ehtsuperstar said:
Really want to do a GI fellowship and end up at a decent medicine program to set me up well for this. What are my chances?
Step 1: 250
Step 2: 275
Top 25% of my class at a mid-tier USMD school with Honors in my medicine clerkship.
5 first-author pubs in ophtho (had a last minute change of heart and decided to apply medicine)
Haven't done a medicine sub-I. Had fourth year geared towards optho but hated my electives in it 🙁
Thanks in advance!
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AOA would push you into the very competitive category, even at top-20. Without it, you still have a strong application. Apply to a few safeties, then pick your poison from the upper-mid tier and top-20 programs, all of which will set you up nicely for fellowship.

bobjonesbob said:
@WPmed0209 I think the above poster is overestimating your odds. You have very good but not great step 1 and most everything else seems average to below average for top programs. Things that help you get those top 20 interviews include top medical school, AOA, phd / very strong research, URM, very strong / unique extracurriculars. You don't seem to have any of that. You should certainly match a strong university program just probably not one of the places you were thinking when you said "top tier programs."
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I disagree. Without AOA, I think you'll still get a number of IVs to top 20 as you have good scores (anything above 250 generally raises an eyebrow) and top research. Also, "a number" means a few, which is < 50% as there are 20-25 programs in the "top 20". With AOA, your application is that much stronger and your chances of matching in that tier increases significantly. Still no guarantees, which is why I advised you to apply broadly and find out.

For reference, I had scores 260+ with AOA, 100% lower ranked medical school, and no publications but with abstracts/presentations. I got "a number of" IVs to top-20s and matched there.

blahblahpremeds said:
Any advice is appreciated:

USMD Step 1 <215, Step 2 yet to take
all Passes/High Passes third year including Pass in IM. Clinical evals were good, but shelf scores brought my overall grade down
4 pubs, 1/2 author in most, 3 poster presentations
multiple ECs
Strong LORs

Looking at mid tier/solid community IM programs in Northeast. Do i have a shot?
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Yes. Your scores and grades leave a lot to be desired, but if your research, ECs, and LOR are as strong as you make them to be, then you'll match at academic programs in the NE. No shot at top 20, but places like Monte, Jefferson, UMD, Tufts, BU are reaches and may give you a look. Everything below that is fair game. You should apply to >30 programs just to be safe.
 
Posting for a friend who does not want to sign up for SDN forums

US-IMG who went to overseas Medical School in China
Step 1 228
Step 2CK 240
Step 2 CS - Failed ICE - He is a native English speaker but severely underestimated the clinical aspects of the test.
Passes and Honors in his core courses (though this was done at an overseas medical school and may not mean as much)
Strong LORs from US Sub-I and electives

He is aiming to do FM or IM without any desired geographic locations and with an intention to do primary care in an underserved area.

He did get one IM interview despite the failed Step 2 CS but has not gotten anything else.

AS he will likely end up in the Scramble, will PDs for unfilled IM and FM spots consider accepting him with the caveat that he must pass Step 2 CS on his own time? He is otherwise a native English speaker and is "normal." He just had a bad day with Step 2 CS.
 
InnerCityQueens said:
Posting for a friend who does not want to sign up for SDN forums

US-IMG who went to overseas Medical School in China
Step 1 228
Step 2CK 240
Step 2 CS - Failed ICE - He is a native English speaker but severely underestimated the clinical aspects of the test.
Passes and Honors in his core courses (though this was done at an overseas medical school and may not mean as much)
Strong LORs from US Sub-I and electives

He is aiming to do FM or IM without any desired geographic locations and with an intention to do primary care in an underserved area.

He did get one IM interview despite the failed Step 2 CS but has not gotten anything else.

AS he will likely end up in the Scramble, will PDs for unfilled IM and FM spots consider accepting him with the caveat that he must pass Step 2 CS on his own time? He is otherwise a native English speaker and is "normal." He just had a bad day with Step 2 CS.
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As an IMG, it will be difficult. Chances are slim-to-none for this cycle. Retake and apply broadly the following year and I think he/she probably will match FM; IM might be a bit more difficult.
 
InnerCityQueens said:
Posting for a friend who does not want to sign up for SDN forums

US-IMG who went to overseas Medical School in China
Step 1 228
Step 2CK 240
Step 2 CS - Failed ICE - He is a native English speaker but severely underestimated the clinical aspects of the test.
Passes and Honors in his core courses (though this was done at an overseas medical school and may not mean as much)
Strong LORs from US Sub-I and electives

He is aiming to do FM or IM without any desired geographic locations and with an intention to do primary care in an underserved area.

He did get one IM interview despite the failed Step 2 CS but has not gotten anything else.

AS he will likely end up in the Scramble, will PDs for unfilled IM and FM spots consider accepting him with the caveat that he must pass Step 2 CS on his own time? He is otherwise a native English speaker and is "normal." He just had a bad day with Step 2 CS.
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Your "friend" will not get anything, in the Match or SOAP, without a passed 2CS. The end. The time to retake this was the week after the failing score was received.
 
gutonc said:
No, you really don't.

I never bothered to look at that list until just now but, holy hell what a load of horsesh** that thing is.
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The one that really sticks out is CCF! That ranking is hilarious along with the entire list. But hey, at least it's not an uphill battle if OP wants to match there.
 
Hello everyone,

Still early in the career planning process, but I am fairly certain I would like to do IM (preferably at a university affiliated program), and was wondering if anyone could give me an idea of the types of residency programs I could reasonably expect to apply.

I'm a:

MD-PhD from a mid-tier US MD school.
Step 1: 223 (sigh. from a year in which the average was probably 227).
Step 2: Not taken yet
Clinical grades: H in IM. HP in everything else.

Publications: 2 first authors and 2 second-authors. So a fairly ho-hum PhD.

I have no location biases but I am from NYC and only really familiar with the NY programs. I understand that the Step 1 score is a liability that will exclude me from top tier programs.

I was thinking primarily of lower and mid tier IM programs such as Northshore LIJ, Rutgers, Mt. Sinai- Beth Israel, Jeff, Temple, etc. But would really appreciate suggestions on programs across the country that could round out my target list.

Thanks
 
boetius said:
Hello everyone,

Still early in the career planning process, but I am fairly certain I would like to do IM (preferably at a university affiliated program), and was wondering if anyone could give me an idea of the types of residency programs I could reasonably expect to apply.

I'm a:

MD-PhD from a mid-tier US MD school.
Step 1: 223 (sigh. from a year in which the average was probably 227).
Step 2: Not taken yet
Clinical grades: H in IM. HP in everything else.

Publications: 2 first authors and 2 second-authors. So a fairly ho-hum PhD.

I have no location biases but I am from NYC and only really familiar with the NY programs. I understand that the Step 1 score is a liability that will exclude me from top tier programs.

I was thinking primarily of lower and mid tier IM programs such as Northshore LIJ, Rutgers, Mt. Sinai- Beth Israel, Jeff, Temple, etc. But would really appreciate suggestions on programs across the country that could round out my target list.

Thanks
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Your Step 1 score will be balanced nicely by your PhD. If you can get AOA too, so much the better. I had similar scores to you, fewer pubs and HP in IM and I got a heaping helping of top tier interviews (and a bunch of solid mid-tiers) across the country. All of the programs you named are well below where you should be aiming. If you're focused on the NYC area and surrounding, apply to all the Manhattan university programs and Einstein. All the Boston places. Penn and Jeff. Rutgers RWJ. Yale. Then expand geographically and see what happens.
 
Hey everybody,

Wondering what "tier" programs I should aim for & how many total programs I should apply to in the 2020 cycle (my school recommends 30.)

Interested in matching at a university program with in-house fellowships, with a preference for programs within proximity to (or easy travel to) KC, MO (SO will be matching here, so it would be nice to stick around if possible.)

DO 3rd Year
Step1/Comlex1: 243/631
Step2/Comlex2: tbd/tbd (255+ is my goal for Step2; I recognize it's only a goal)
Comats (DO shelf exams): honored IM, passed the rest
Research: 1 project/poster in undergrad; working on a chart review project now
Other ECs: lots of volunteering & other stuff in undergrad (idk if it matters?), MBA (dual degree), & a some other typical stuff in med school (nothing too unique)

Programs Currently on my List (b/c of proximity/easy travel & having DOs): UMKC - Colombia, Mercy Hospital St. Louis, SLU, St. Luke’s Hospital Program (couldn't find resident list for this one), WashU, University of Kansas, University of Kansas (Wichita), Research Medical Center/Overland Park Regional, Creighton University (Omaha), University of Nebraska, Mayo (AZ), University of Arizona, Midwestern Mesa (AZ), Midwestern Cottonwood (AZ), Creighton St. Joseph (AZ), Creighton Maricopa (AZ), & Midwestern Sierra Vista (AZ)

Going to look into programs in Oklahoma & Colorado as well
 
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NecrotizingFasciitis said:
Hey everybody,

Wondering what "tier" programs I should aim for & how many total programs I should apply to in the 2020 cycle (my school recommends 30.)

Interested in matching at a university program with in-house fellowships, with a preference for programs within proximity to (or easy travel to) KC, MO (SO will be matching here, so it would be nice to stick around if possible.)

DO 3rd Year
Step1/Comlex1: 243/631
Step2/Comlex2: tbd/tbd (255+ is my goal for Step2; I recognize it's only a goal)
Comats (DO shelf exams): honored IM, passed the rest
Research: 1 project/poster in undergrad; working on a chart review project now
Other ECs: lots of volunteering & other stuff in undergrad (idk if it matters?), MBA (dual degree), & a some other typical stuff in med school (nothing too unique)

Programs Currently on my List (b/c of proximity/easy travel & having DOs): UMKC - Colombia, Mercy Hospital St. Louis, SLU, St. Luke’s Hospital Program (couldn't find resident list for this one), WashU, University of Kansas, University of Kansas (Wichita), Research Medical Center/Overland Park Regional, Creighton University (Omaha), University of Nebraska, Mayo (AZ), University of Arizona, Midwestern Mesa (AZ), Midwestern Cottonwood (AZ), Creighton St. Joseph (AZ), Creighton Maricopa (AZ), & Midwestern Sierra Vista (AZ)

Going to look into programs in Oklahoma & Colorado as well
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With your scores and your goals you really should be looking into mainly university programs and cutting or minimizing community programs without strong fellowship match lists/in house fellowship.

WashU has 1 DO in their program and is in the primary care track. Don't be surprised if they don't give you any love.

I suggest looking at the following programs for consideration: University of Iowa (main and Des Moines), University of New Mexico, University of Colorado (potentially a reach, St. Joseph (Denver), University of Minnesota, University of Chicago Northshore, Loyola, Advocate Christ, Indiana University, Beaumont, Wayne State, Henry Ford, Cleveland Clinic, University of Cincinnati, Case Western MetroHealth, Mercy St Vincent (IN), Medical College of Wisconsin, University of Louisville, UT Knoxville, Oklahoma University, University of Arkansas.
 
Looking for recommendations on if to send residency programs letters of intent? If its a good idea -- whats the best way to word it.
 
Analfissure said:
Looking for recommendations on if to send residency programs letters of intent? If its a good idea -- whats the best way to word it.
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You mean a "ranking you #1" letter?

Do it if it makes you feel like you've done everything you can to match. Understand that the PD will assume you're lying and sending the same email to 27 other programs as well.
 
Med school: Low tier MD in the Southeast
Step 1: 225
Step 2: Haven’t taken yet
Class Rank: Middle of the pack
Grades: Average clinical grades, but good comments
AOA: no
GHHS: yes
Research: 2 publications, 1 poster conference
LORs: anticipate them to be above average.

No geographical preference - just want to be in a fairly nice city. Unsure about future goals but would like to match in the best program I can.

Can I get feedback on the school list I’ve made so far? Which ones I should omit and suggestions on which to add? Not sure how to classify reach/attainable/safeties.

Tulane
Hofstra/Northwell
Rutgers
UMD
JH/Bayview,
LSU - Baton Rouge,
Rush,
Baylor,
MUSC,
Temple,
Loyola,
Ohio state,
Carolinas Medical,
USF,
Tufts,
Fairfax,
Wake Forest,
VCU
Case Western,
Georgetown,
UT-Nashville,
Mount Sinai,
George Washington,
LSU - New Orleans,
UF Gainesville
University of Louisville
UT-Houston
St. Louis University
Cone Health
Greenville Health
UT-Memphis
University of South Carolina
University of Kansas
Methodist Health - Dallas
St Vincent
Case Western
UT Austin
MUSM - Savannah
Brookwood Baptist
Rutgers
Cleveland Clinic
UT Chattanooga + Knoxville
U Chicago NorthShore
Ochsner Clinic
Orlando Health
 
Splenda88 said:
@HeisenbergIsTheGOAT

Your list is good, but too many programs. You probably can cut your list by 10-15.
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Or even 20.

Start by dropping all the places that aren't university-based. And you clearly do have a regional bias to the SE, midwest and mid-Atlantic. You could put together 10+ good programs in any one of those regions.
 
Hi all, MS3 here looking for some input on where I stand applying to IM
Med school: Mid tier MD in the south
Step 1: Mid 240’s
Step 2: TBD
Clerkships: H in IM, Surgery, and FM. Rest are HP.
Class rank: Lower end
AOA: No
GHHS: TBD
Research: 1 first author pub, a few poster conferences in different states while in medical school. Poster presentation in undergrad, research experience during gap year.
EC: Volunteering at multiple events, leadership positions etc

No geographic preference, just trying to get into the best program that my application will allow

Is my application competitive enough for some of the big name programs (MGH, UCSF, BWH, etc)?

Thanks for the help!
 
@AbruptioPlacentae

You should be ok for midtiers... Chances are low for top programs coming form a midtier school, no AOA etc... You can always apply but should not count on them.
 
AbruptioPlacentae said:
Thanks for the heads up. Will not going to the big four limit my opportunities to enter sub specialties?
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Not at all. I am at low tier university program and we have people matched into the most competitive subspecialties (eg., GI, cardio etc...). Obviously, you do have to do extremely well in residency and have some research under belt...
 
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AbruptioPlacentae said:
Hi all, MS3 here looking for some input on where I stand applying to IM
Med school: Mid tier MD in the south
Step 1: Mid 240’s
Step 2: TBD
Clerkships: H in IM, Surgery, and FM. Rest are HP.
Class rank: Lower end
AOA: No
GHHS: TBD
Research: 1 first author pub, a few poster conferences in different states while in medical school. Poster presentation in undergrad, research experience during gap year.
EC: Volunteering at multiple events, leadership positions etc

No geographic preference, just trying to get into the best program that my application will allow

Is my application competitive enough for some of the big name programs (MGH, UCSF, BWH, etc)?

Thanks for the help!
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Probably not, but no reason not to apply. You definitely won't get an interview at a program you don't apply to.

Your CV is solid. Not stellar, but solid. Some of the big names will take a look at you. No idea which ones up front though so go for it and see what happens.
 
gutonc said:
Probably not, but no reason not to apply. You definitely won't get an interview at a program you don't apply to.

Your CV is solid. Not stellar, but solid. Some of the big names will take a look at you. No idea which ones up front though so go for it and see what happens.
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Thanks for the help! I've heard of FREIDA, but are there any other websites where I can find IM programs that I should apply to?
 
dlev92 said:
Hey everyone,

Would like some input on my chances at some programs!

DO Student
Step 1: 243
Step2:TBD
Rotations: Honored IM, Honored Surgery,
Publications: 1 publication (during graduate school), 1 case report publication (currently being reviewed)
Presentations: 2 posters, potentially 1 more in June (abstract being reviewed)
Research: Anesthesia Research during under grad, Neurosurg Research during medical school
Advocacy: Student leadership position in 2 national medical associations MD/DO
Volunteer: student clinics, work with underserved communities

Programs I'd like input on (USC, UCI, UCLA-Harbor, UCLA-Oliveview, Cedars).
*from Cali

Thanks again!
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Your research is all over the place with listing grad school pubs, Gas pubs, and neurosurg pubs. What were the 2 posters on and what conferences were they presented at and were you first author or co-author?

Chances at UCI, UCLA-Harbor and Oliveview are reasonable.

Chances at USC and Cedars Sinai not so much. Even with it's large class size, there are no DO's in the entire cohort for any year. Safe to say that the reason for this wasn't because there were no DO's applying with 240+ step scores. Same with cedars.

Beyond that, your application is what most other applications are going to look like so just have some sort of good story. I suggest either considering expanding your application list to include more programs like Loma Linda, UC Davis, UC Riverside, UCSF-Fresno. Also consider community programs like Arrowhead, Desert Regional, the Kaiser Programs if you ar dead set on staying in CA. You can also expand to include programs in the PNW and AZ like OHSU, Virginia Mason, Providence, Legacy, UArizona.
 
Recently matched applicant here to offer advice!

About me: unranked state school in the northeast, 25X step 1, 26X step 2, AOA. Incredibly weak research. Matched to a top 10 program (and my number 1 choice!). Interviewed at ~13 of the top 20 programs (including 2 of the "big 4.") I was told last year (and on this thread I think), that "top tiers" were a reach for me.

What is the point of this post? To remind everyone that this thread can be over-critical. You're probably more competitive than you think. With this being said, here are some observations from this cycle from me and others at my institution:

-AOA seems to be the big divider for interviews coming from a low tier school. If everything is excellent about your app, but you don't have AOA, you can expect a few of the top 20 interview invites (coming from a low tier MD school at least), but much less than if you have AOA.
-Step 2 is very important (but still not as important as step 1).
-Don't underestimate clinical grades (third-year IM grade is particularly important).
-Don't underestimate leadership/volunteering (can be as important as research at a lot of the big names).
-List unique hobbies. These were the biggest talking points in my interviews.

Overall, I think the application process is much more holistic than I had originally thought. Certain strengths in your app can make up for weaknesses.

Good luck, and reach out with questions!
 
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toxicmegacologne said:
Recently matched applicant here to offer advice!

About me: unranked state school in the northeast, 25X step 1, 26X step 2, AOA. Incredibly weak research. Matched to a top 10 program (and my number 1 choice!). Interviewed at ~13 of the top 20 programs (including 2 of the "big 4.") I was told last year (and on this thread I think), that "top tiers" were a reach for me.

What is the point of this post? To remind everyone that this thread can be over-critical. You're probably more competitive than you think. With this being said, here are some observations from this cycle from me and others at my institution:

-AOA seems to be the big divider for interviews coming from a low tier school. If everything is excellent about your app, but you don't have AOA, you can expect a few of the top 20 interview invites (coming from a low tier MD school at least), but much less than if you have AOA.
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I too went to an "unranked state school in the NE" and would second the bolded. Even back in the day when I matched (2 SARS epi/pan-demics ago), the saying at my school was "you need 3 extra letters on your app to get Top 10 interviews, AOA or PhD". I suspect that's even more true today.
 
M3 looking for some advice on applying IM!

Med school: mid tier MD school
Step 1: 245+
Step 2: 260+
Clerkships: H in all rotations
Class rank: Top 1/3ish? Not really sure
AOA: Don’t know. Potentially senior AOA.
Research: minimal
EC: Normal med student volunteer stuff too.

I’m hoping to stay in the South, but that is not a must. Interested in GI and cardio at the moment but also not dead set on anything. Not really sure on # of programs to plan on applying to.
 
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Throwaway101 said:
M3 looking for some advice on applying IM!

Med school: Unranked southern MD school
Step 1: 245-250
Step 2: ???? (thx rona)
Clerkships: H in all rotations completed but haven’t had my IM rotation due to shutdown...
Class rank: Top 1/3ish?
AOA: Don’t know
Research: 1st author abstract with multiple presentations from surgery project (national meeting as well as local/state); publication fell apart due to staff turn over. Hoping to get some IM research going with new mentor.
EC: Dual degree student (MD + MBA/MPH/MHA type degree) with unique activities through it. Normal med student volunteer stuff too.

I’m hoping to stay in the South/Midwest, but that is not a must. Interested in GI at the moment but also not dead set on anything. I’m mainly concerned about the potential missing IM clerkship grade from my application and how that impacts the number/tier of programs I should apply to. My school’s current plan is to makeup M3 clerkships next spring. Any thoughts?
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Hey! I think the ambiguity set by COVID leaves a lot in the air for many people, however you shouldn’t be docked for not having an IM grade in, especially with those other solid grades.

I would email your registrar and see your class rank and/or your AOA coordinator to see if you’re eligible. You’re on the cusp of being competitive for T20 programs, but AOA will be the deciding factor. Either way apply to upper/mids in the south (UVA, UAB, UF) all of which set you up very well for fellowship in GI.

With or without AOA, you’re most competitive for regional T20 programs (Emory). I would still apply to programs in the NE and see what bites.
 
toxicmegacologne said:
Hey! I think the ambiguity set by COVID leaves a lot in the air for many people, however you shouldn’t be docked for not having an IM grade in, especially with those other solid grades.

I would email your registrar and see your class rank and/or your AOA coordinator to see if you’re eligible. You’re on the cusp of being competitive for T20 programs, but AOA will be the deciding factor. Either way apply to upper/mids in the south (UVA, UAB, UF) all of which set you up very well for fellowship in GI.

With or without AOA, you’re most competitive for regional T20 programs (Emory). I would still apply to programs in the NE and see what bites.
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Awesome to hear. Definitely will reach out to our registrar and try to get that figured out. Those programs all would be incredible to train at, so that is exciting to hear. Thanks for the feedback!
 
Danger_Dog said:
Here is essentially my entire residency application in brief:

1. Current 3rd year DO student
2. Completed pre-clinicals in the top quarter of my class
3. Step 1: 255
4. Level 1: 630
5. Finished all of my core rotations this year before the coronavirus cut the school year short. I had only 2 electives remaining
6. Honors in Internal Medicine, General Surgery, and Pediatric rotations.
7. Pass in Family Med, OBGYN, Psych, and OMM
8. Took part in research as an OMS-2 for the entire year, but only got a poster out of it
9. No publications other than the aforementioned poster (if that even counts)
10. I currently have only one Letter of Recommendation but it's a strong one and it's from a cardiologist I did a 4 week rotation with. I was planning to get another one before the end of the year, but now I won't be doing the rotation I was targetting for that second letter, so I'll just have to try and get 2 more LORs on my auditions.
11. Very active in terms of extracurriculars and leadership at my med school during the first two years
12. Member of Sigma Sigma Phi Academic honors society and Gold Humanism Honors Society

For the sake of argument, let's assume I get a 260 on Step 2 CK, which is the only exam I have to study for between now and when I have it scheduled in the first week of June. My target score is a 265 since I know the average increase between Step 1 and Step 2 is about 10 points, but lets go with 260 to be conservative. I'm typically a strong test taker and I'm more than ready to study as hard as I can while on quarantine.

The reason I'm asking this question is because right now I'm applying for audition rotations all over the country, and I'd like to identify and hone in on a few Internal Medicine residency programs that I would have a good shot of getting an interview at if I were to go there for an audition in July, August, September, or October.

I've busted my butt these past three years trying to put together the best residency application I can muster and it feels like there's finally a light at the end of the tunnel for me soon. I wanna finish strong without letting up. It's very unfortunate that so many great Internal Medicine programs discriminate against D.O applicants because I know if I were from an average MD school with this application I would really be able to go somewhere outstanding, but it is what it is and so I'm just trying to make the most of what I can before I submit my application in September.

Could you guys give me an idea of roughly where I should be targeting in terms of IM programs? I assume places like the University of Michigan are out of reach no matter what I do, but what about somewhere like UC Irvine or Rush University medical center? Is that a realistic target?

Also, is there anything else that someone can reasonably accomplish between now and mid-September to improve odds for residency placement other than study for board exams? If so, let me know and I'll gladly do them!

I should also say that I'm willing to go anywhere in the country. Don't care where, just want to get into the best program I can
Click to expand...

Alas, Michigan and any top-30 IM residencies are completely our of your reach. Even upper mid tier residencies are unrealistic. Your best best are low-id tier residencies who take DOs. Quick look at resident list at Rush did not reveal any obvious DOs. UC Irvine has taken DOs so that can be a target. Apply broadly, do your homework (i.e. look up which residencies take DOs), and good luck.
 
MyTachyBradyHeart said:
Alas, Michigan and any top-30 IM residencies are completely our of your reach. Even upper mid tier residencies are unrealistic. Your best best are low-id tier residencies who take DOs. Quick look at resident list at Rush did not reveal any obvious DOs. UC Irvine has taken DOs so that can be a target. Apply broadly, do your homework (i.e. look up which residencies take DOs), and good luck.
Click to expand...
Ugh, for real? Best I can do is low to mid tier programs? All cause of the DO thing? I knew it would be a bit of a handicap, but I thought working my ass off all through med school would change that.

I really thought that my Step 1 score would make up for all that. I mean even at really competitive programs like the University of Chicago, FREIDA says that the average Step 1 scores of their current residents and fellows is between a 226-235. I was really hoping that my Step 1 score would help me get past that DO bias.

I still intend to apply to places like that of course, but I just didn't realize that my chances were that slim.

On another note, do you have any input on the importance of research? I don't have much as you can see, but it's really just because access to those kinds of opportunities are scarce at DO schools. Do PDs really care that much about publications when you're still just a med student? Like if I were to spend 3 years at a university residency program, I'd be able to contribute to research significantly more, so I don't see why my past research experience is all that relevant at this point. Not like med students are really doing anything groundbreaking to begin with.

Idk, it's just frustrating
 
Danger_Dog said:
Thanks, I didn't know that this thread existed!

Do you have any feedback on my post by any chance? @gutonc ?
Click to expand...
I'm a little less pessimistic than @MyTachyBradyHeart but there are definitely a bunch of Top X (where X is a number between 4 and 100) programs that won't even look at your app because you're a DO.

Recommend looking at the last 3-5 years of your schools match lists and the lists of matched students at programs you're interested in, and see if you can find a good list. There's no reason (other than ego and money) to not apply to all the programs you want, just recognize the bias (regardless of whether it's fair or not) and move on with your life.
 
Danger_Dog said:
Ugh, for real? Best I can do is low to mid tier programs? All cause of the DO thing? I knew it would be a bit of a handicap, but I thought working my ass off all through med school would change that.

I really thought that my Step 1 score would make up for all that. I mean even at really competitive programs like the University of Chicago, FREIDA says that the average Step 1 scores of their current residents and fellows is between a 226-235. I was really hoping that my Step 1 score would help me get past that DO bias.

I still intend to apply to places like that of course, but I just didn't realize that my chances were that slim.

On another note, do you have any input on the importance of research? I don't have much as you can see, but it's really just because access to those kinds of opportunities are scarce at DO schools. Do PDs really care that much about publications when you're still just a med student? Like if I were to spend 3 years at a university residency program, I'd be able to contribute to research significantly more, so I don't see why my past research experience is all that relevant at this point. Not like med students are really doing anything groundbreaking to begin with.

Idk, it's just frustrating
Click to expand...
gutonc said:
I'm a little less pessimistic than @MyTachyBradyHeart but there are definitely a bunch of Top X (where X is a number between 4 and 100) programs that won't even look at your app because you're a DO.

Recommend looking at the last 3-5 years of your schools match lists and the lists of matched students at programs you're interested in, and see if you can find a good list. There's no reason (other than ego and money) to not apply to all the programs you want, just recognize the bias (regardless of whether it's fair or not) and move on with your life.
Click to expand...

IM at the top is very competitive. For reference, I am MD, AOA, 260/270+ Steps 1/2, with more research than you... and didn't get IVs to many programs. However, you will be competitive for many, many low-mid tier IM academic programs and will get good clinical training regardless.

Research matter a lot more for you, since you're disadvantaged applying as a DO. That is one way DOs can sometimes break into the mid/upper-mid tier academic programs. Unfortunately, your research does not stand out, which IMO rules you out for the mid-tier programs I am thinking of that has taken DOs in the past (i.e. Georgetown).

My advice stands: apply to at least 100 programs (can always cancel interviews once they start to roll in), a mix of low-mid tier academic and solid community programs. Research every program you are thinking of and see if they've take DOs in the past couple of years. If the answer is no, then don't waste your money on those programs.
 
Hello, wondering what my chances are at top 25ish northeastern programs? 254 Step 1, 5 honors third year (including IM) and 3 HP, 1 2nd author manuscript (with two others manuscripts submitted now but not in IM related field), 8ish posters/abstracts with a couple published (2 of these are in IM related field), some good extracurricular with an emphasis on teaching/tutoring (I want to do med ed). Eligible for AOA, not yet decided. I go to a top 50ish northeastern medical school
 
Phrasing said:
Hello, wondering what my chances are at top 25ish northeastern programs? 254 Step 1, 5 honors third year (including IM) and 3 HP, 1 2nd author manuscript (with two others manuscripts submitted now but not in IM related field), 8ish posters/abstracts with a couple published (2 of these are in IM related field), some good extracurricular with an emphasis on teaching/tutoring (I want to do med ed). Eligible for AOA, not yet decided. I go to a top 50ish northeastern medical school
Click to expand...
If you get AOA you are pretty guaranteed to match into top 25. Probably top 10 or 15.
If you don't get AOA, I think you will still match top 25 maybe not top 15.
Just work on getting good letters and doing well on your sub-i.
 
ramses99 said:
M3, MD

Med school: Top 10
Step 1: >260
Step 2: Probably will not take before applying
Clerkships: HP in IM, had it first. H in everything else
SubI: Probably can't do one before applying 2/2 COVID
Class rank: n/a
AOA: Not decided, but I bet I will not get it - my class is pretty elite
Research: A couple publications, a couple abstracts
EC: Pretty standard, nothing remarkable
LORs: Should be good, I had really good clinical evals throughout clerkships
PS, interviews should be pretty solid.

Interested in hem/onc which matches with research and ECs.

I know I'm fairly competitive given step/ med school.
q1: does the HP in medicine f** me though for top 10 programs? my Chair's letter will hopefully explain that it was my first rotation and my evals were great.
q2: my program list is about ~20 and they're almost all top programs. Is that overconfident?
q3: am I alright in not taking CK before applying?

Thank you!
Click to expand...

Expand your program list to more than 20. You spent a lot of money going to med school. Applying to extra 20 programs is not going to break your bank. Decline interviews later.
Having said that, you are probably guaranteed to match into those 20 you have picked.
Not sure about CK. Got my results two wees after ERAS was due. Did pretty well (260s). Don't believe it fetched me any extra interviews but hard to say given I had a pretty good step 1 and programs were probably OK enough with s1.
 
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