Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[aCellsLife]

Reading this thread is a little depressing, as a lowly uninitiated M3. About half of the graduates at my coastal mid-tier school end up at top 20s for IM. I doubt all of them have AOA. Some have even had 230s in the last 5 years and have matched in the top tier. While my school doesn't match at a diverse range of top 20s, there are some on the same coast that consistently take 1 or more students from my school. I think the idea that you're limited by costal top tier programs just because you're not AOA or at a top 20 may be an oversimplification.

I know people commenting here have real-world experience so I understand I might be wrong. This system just seems very flawed. I received 9 interviews at top 30 med schools but fell short / didn't attend all of them. Assuming I do well on the rest of my steps/rotations, it seems silly to prioritize AOA membership or top school attendance, which in my opinion can involve more luck than grades or scores.

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[Adjet]

Reading this thread is a little depressing, as a lowly uninitiated M3. About half of the graduates at my coastal mid-tier school end up at top 20s for IM. I doubt all of them have AOA. Some have even had 230s in the last 5 years and have matched in the top tier. While my school doesn't match at a diverse range of top 20s, there are some on the same coast that consistently take 1 or more students from my school. I think the idea that you're limited by costal top tier programs just because you're not AOA or at a top 20 may be an oversimplification.

I know people commenting here have real-world experience so I understand I might be wrong. This system just seems very flawed. I received 9 interviews at top 30 med schools but fell short / didn't attend all of them. Assuming I do well on the rest of my steps/rotations, it seems silly to prioritize AOA membership or top school attendance, which in my opinion can involve more luck than grades or scores.

I think you're probably referring to me so I'll comment.

a) I doubt your school is considered 'mid-tier' if half the IM people end up in top 20 programs. A true mid tier place typically sends ~20-40% of students to 'top 30' IM programs in any given year. You can look this up for yourself - pull up match lists from the full spectrum of med schools and you'll notice a clear trend regarding the perceived med school reputation and where people end up.
b) Agree, if non-AOA and not at a top school, you still very much have the opportunity to match at a top 20 program, but scores, grades, EC/research/letters should be solid. Regional/historical ties between a program and a med school are very much a thing as you suggest. If you want to break out of your region to go to an elite program cards are stacked against you though.
c)Yes AOA and med school rankings can be arbitrary and a flawed way to evaluate applications, but time shows that PDs care about this. Again you can do your own research and pull up resident rosters from top programs. It sucks, but it's hard to blame them at the same time. If you have two equally strong applications, but one comes from a top tier med school and one comes from a low tier one, who would you tend to invite? Same with AOA vs non-AOA. Overall, I tend to think it's better to prepare for the less than ideal outcome.

 

[aCellsLife]

I think you're probably referring to me so I'll comment.

a) I doubt your school is considered 'mid-tier' if half the IM people end up in top 20 programs. A true mid tier place typically sends ~20-40% of students to 'top 30' IM programs in any given year. You can look this up for yourself - pull up match lists from the full spectrum of med schools and you'll notice a clear trend regarding the perceived med school reputation and where people end up.
b) Agree, if non-AOA and not at a top school, you still very much have the opportunity to match at a top 20 program, but scores, grades, EC/research/letters should be solid. Regional/historical ties between a program and a med school are very much a thing as you suggest. If you want to break out of your region to go to an elite program cards are stacked against you though.
c)Yes AOA and med school rankings can be arbitrary and a flawed way to evaluate applications, but time shows that PDs care about this. Again you can do your own research and pull up resident rosters from top programs. It sucks, but it's hard to blame them at the same time. If you have two equally strong applications, but one comes from a top tier med school and one comes from a low tier one, who would you tend to invite? Same with AOA vs non-AOA. Overall, I tend to think it's better to prepare for the less than ideal outcome.

I actually agree with almost all of this. I was more referring to the other poster's claim that coastal or east coastal top institutions are almost "out of one's league" if you're not AOA or come from top 20. If anything, I can match best at the institutions that are regionally close to me, on my coast. Institutional ties for these residencies are real and extend beyond top 20 med schools as you said. Without giving too many specifics, my school is ranked 40-60th.

 

[spicynuggetfiend]

Here goes nothing.

School: Low-tier MD, west of the Mississippi river
Step 1: Around 260
Step 2: Around 250 (no idea what happened here, tbh. practice scores were 255+)
AOA: No
Rank: Top 1/3
Research: 1 second-author publication, 3 posters, 2 talks at regional conferences
Clerkships: Honors in everything (including IM and surgery), except psychiatry (HP)
EC's: Lots of teaching (includes part of the wellness curriculum) and decent volunteering.
Letters: Three IM faculty (including the PD and APD).
Other: Lots of family in California, including a sibling whose a non-IM resident at a big name program

My school list...
Longshots: Stanford, BID/MGH/B&W, Columbia, Cornell, UPenn, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UChicago
Reasonable reaches: UCLA, UCSD, LA+USC, Cedars, Boston, Tufts, NYU, UTSW, Baylor, Mt Sinai, UPMC, OHSU
Targets: UCI, Rush, Jefferson, Loyola Chicago, UA-Tuscon, Mayo AZ, Loma Linda, Houston Methodist, UT Houston
Safeties: Bunch of community programs out west

Kinda worried if the disconnect between my step 1 and step 2's gonna hurt me. I appreciate any advice/feedback

 

[whoknows2012]

Reading this thread is a little depressing, as a lowly uninitiated M3. About half of the graduates at my coastal mid-tier school end up at top 20s for IM. I doubt all of them have AOA. Some have even had 230s in the last 5 years and have matched in the top tier. While my school doesn't match at a diverse range of top 20s, there are some on the same coast that consistently take 1 or more students from my school. I think the idea that you're limited by costal top tier programs just because you're not AOA or at a top 20 may be an oversimplification.

I know people commenting here have real-world experience so I understand I might be wrong. This system just seems very flawed. I received 9 interviews at top 30 med schools but fell short / didn't attend all of them. Assuming I do well on the rest of my steps/rotations, it seems silly to prioritize AOA membership or top school attendance, which in my opinion can involve more luck than grades or scores.

People’s definition of “mid tier” might be different. Additionally if we want to be objective about this it’s best to compare apples to apples. Which are the programs that half of your graduating class in IM are matching at? Step score is fairly irrelevant if you have a great app ie good research, AOA etc. I’m sure some programs may use cut offs >240 but I suspect most don’t. I’m sorry if this scares you or makes you nervous. The top of IM is incredibly competitive

 

[schwiftyguy]

And away we go...

School: Mid/Low Tier US MD in SE
Step 1 248
Step 2 261
AOA: Applied but alas no
Rank: Top 20%
Research: 1 national poster presentation, 1 local. 1 first author manuscript submitted, 2 review articles
Clerkships: Straight As
ECs: Free clinic coordinator, minor volunteer stuff, significant work experience prior to med school in cardiology. Didn't cure Ebola.
Letters: PI from research, 2 IM Professors, 1 IM director letter

I am pretty much open to anywhere in the US except maybe ND. (no offense) Looking to do GI or Cards.

Target:

Reach: Stanford, Northwestern, UChicago, Vandy, Duke, Michigan, Cornell, UCLA, UW, BIDMC
Target/ Have a solid chance: Mt. Sinai, Baylor, UTSW, NYU, UVA, UPMC, UNC, Colorado, UCSD, UAB, Emory, Rush, GT, GW, Wake, BU, OHSU
Safety: MUSC, MCG, VCU, UF

How do you think I will fair at the upper end of my list without AOA? I see a lot of doom and gloom for people coming from low/mid-tier schools without it. Do I need more safeties? Appreciate the feedback.

 

[Adjet]

Here goes nothing.

School: Low-tier MD, west of the Mississippi river
Step 1: Around 260
Step 2: Around 250 (no idea what happened here, tbh. practice scores were 255+)
AOA: No
Rank: Top 1/3
Research: 1 second-author publication, 3 posters, 2 talks at regional conferences
Clerkships: Honors in everything (including IM and surgery), except psychiatry (HP)
EC's: Lots of teaching (includes part of the wellness curriculum) and decent volunteering.
Letters: Three IM faculty (including the PD and APD).
Other: Lots of family in California, including a sibling whose a non-IM resident at a big name program

My school list...
Longshots: Stanford, BID/MGH/B&W, Columbia, Cornell, UPenn, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UChicago
Reasonable reaches: UCLA, UCSD, LA+USC, Cedars, Boston, Tufts, NYU, UTSW, Baylor, Mt Sinai, UPMC, OHSU
Targets: UCI, Rush, Jefferson, Loyola Chicago, UA-Tuscon, Mayo AZ, Loma Linda, Houston Methodist, UT Houston
Safeties: Bunch of community programs out west

Kinda worried if the disconnect between my step 1 and step 2's gonna hurt me. I appreciate any advice/feedback

I mean the step thing is going to look a little odd, but I don't think it will necessarily make a huge difference in the long run since your scores are still pretty good and pass all the cut offs. Your list is fine, would even move usc, cedards, boston, tufts to targets/safeties.

And away we go...

School: Mid/Low Tier US MD in SE
Step 1 248
Step 2 261
AOA: Applied but alas no
Rank: Top 20%
Research: 1 national poster presentation, 1 local. 1 first author manuscript submitted, 2 review articles
Clerkships: Straight As
ECs: Free clinic coordinator, minor volunteer stuff, significant work experience prior to med school in cardiology. Didn't cure Ebola.
Letters: PI from research, 2 IM Professors, 1 IM director letter

I am pretty much open to anywhere in the US except maybe ND. (no offense) Looking to do GI or Cards.

Target:

Reach: Stanford, Northwestern, UChicago, Vandy, Duke, Michigan, Cornell, UCLA, UW, BIDMC
Target/ Have a solid chance: Mt. Sinai, Baylor, UTSW, NYU, UVA, UPMC, UNC, Colorado, UCSD, UAB, Emory, Rush, GT, GW, Wake, BU, OHSU
Safety: MUSC, MCG, VCU, UF

How do you think I will fair at the upper end of my list without AOA? I see a lot of doom and gloom for people coming from low/mid-tier schools without it. Do I need more safeties? Appreciate the feedback.

Your best bet is to look through the recent match lists from your school and see if any non-AOA people were able to break into those 'upper end' programs. Those are probably the programs you have a reasonable shot at. You'll get enough invites from that list to match somewhere decent.

 

[sunshinefl]

DO-Florida
Level 1 478
Step 1 223
Level 2–taking this week
Step 2–November?
PE—November?

1 pre-clinical course remediation
3rd quartile preclinical (class rank officially locks here)
Top half clinical (this is on the MSPE)
No honor society memberships
Weird unpredictable pandemic effects
LOR: academic dean (IM) of M3 core hospital, IM residency faculty M3 core hospital, General surgery residency faculty M3 core hospital, APD critical care M4 away, community hospitalist M4 elective
EC: pretty unremarkable, volunteering, worked PRN as a nurse into fall of M2, no research

Career Goal: General IM to primary care (90% sure) vs hospitalist (10% chance). No fellowships. Would like to stay in Florida.

programs: 102 total, every single Florida program, plus other programs in the Southeast corner of US (FL, TX, LA, MO, AR, MS, AL, GA, SC, NC, TN) Some reaches, some HCA, some communiversity, some rural community programs, everywhere in between. I favor primary care track, strong generalist training, and/or X+Y scheduling.

Favorite programs on my list (no order, d/t geography/features/both): UF-Gainesville, UF-Jax, Mayo-Jax, Naples Community Hospital, FSU Sarasota, Advent Health Orlando, USF, FAU, Largo Medical Center, Manatee Memorial, NFRMC/UCF, Ocala Regional/UCF, Orange Park Medical, UT-San Antonio, UTMB.

 

[getfat]

DO-Florida
Level 1 478
Step 1 223
Level 2–taking this week
Step 2–November?
PE—November?

1 pre-clinical course remediation
3rd quartile preclinical (class rank officially locks here)
Top half clinical (this is on the MSPE)
No honor society memberships
Weird unpredictable pandemic effects
LOR: academic dean (IM) of M3 core hospital, IM residency faculty M3 core hospital, General surgery residency faculty M3 core hospital, APD critical care M4 away, community hospitalist M4 elective
EC: pretty unremarkable, volunteering, worked PRN as a nurse into fall of M2, no research

Career Goal: General IM to primary care (90% sure) vs hospitalist (10% chance). No fellowships. Would like to stay in Florida.

programs: 102 total, every single Florida program, plus other programs in the Southeast corner of US (FL, TX, LA, MO, AR, MS, AL, GA, SC, NC, TN) Some reaches, some HCA, some communiversity, some rural community programs, everywhere in between. I favor primary care track, strong generalist training, and/or X+Y scheduling.

Favorite programs on my list (no order, d/t geography/features/both): UF-Gainesville, UF-Jax, Mayo-Jax, Naples Community Hospital, FSU Sarasota, Advent Health Orlando, USF, FAU, Largo Medical Center, Manatee Memorial, NFRMC/UCF, Ocala Regional/UCF, Orange Park Medical, UT-San Antonio, UTMB.

UCF-Gainesville (North Florida Hospital) and USF-West FL (Bayonette pointe) would really like your app.

 

[gutonc]

DO West
USMLE Step 1: 220
USMLE Step 2 CK: 258
COMLEX Level 1: 559
COMLEX Level 2 CE: 634
Class rank: 3rd quartile
AOA: no
Honors: H Surg; HP IM, ObGyn, Psych, Peds, FM
Research: 4 co-author manuscripts (1 submitted), 3 co-author abstracts, 2 co-author posters (did not present), 3 oral presentations
LOR: strong IM x2, strong cardiologist

WAMC at these programs?

Santa Clara Valley
Cedars Sinai
USC
Scripps Clinic/Scripps Green
UC Irvine
UCLA-Olive View
Harbor-UCLA
Kaiser LA
Loma Linda
Pennsylvania Hospital UPenn
Mount Sinai Beth Israel
Rutgers
BU
Tufts
Georgetown
George Washington
Cleveland Clinic
Case Western
Rush
Dartmouth
UW
OHSU
Mayo Arizona
UNLV
UTHSC
Oklahoma
UF Gainesville
Missouri-Columbia
UAB
UTHSC

Seems like a pretty reasonable list. Not sure why Mt. Sinai/BI is even still pretending to have a residency program but please don't do that.

A few of those places are not going to happen for you, but it's a small number, and I might be wrong so go for it. Your list is pretty "target" heavy, which is a good place to be.

 

[Valsartan]

Seems like a pretty reasonable list. Not sure why Mt. Sinai/BI is even still pretending to have a residency program but please don't do that.

A few of those places are not going to happen for you, but it's a small number, and I might be wrong so go for it. Your list is pretty "target" heavy, which is a good place to be.

I heard that Mt. Sinai/BI is going through this weird transition period and the hospital itself has units closing. What happens to the residents in the program?

 

[gutonc]

I heard that Mt. Sinai/BI is going through this weird transition period and the hospital itself has units closing. What happens to the residents in the program?

My understanding (from 3 years ago now) was that they were just going to not accept new classes and just phase out the residency along with the inpatient units. But that's clearly not what's happened.

If you think you're going to get a backdoor spot at real Mt. Sinai if you're an intern at BI when they finally close the place down, think again.

 

[Valsartan]

My understanding (from 3 years ago now) was that they were just going to not accept new classes and just phase out the residency along with the inpatient units. But that's clearly not what's happened.

If you think you're going to get a backdoor spot at real Mt. Sinai if you're an intern at BI when they finally close the place down, think again.

On their website it seems like they just rotate around at Mt. Sinai affiliated hospital. Definitely wouldn't get a backdoor spot at main site. This sucks since it's a hospital in a desirable location for me with a pretty diverse patient population.

 

[steadyhand]

Seems like a pretty reasonable list. Not sure why Mt. Sinai/BI is even still pretending to have a residency program but please don't do that.

A few of those places are not going to happen for you, but it's a small number, and I might be wrong so go for it. Your list is pretty "target" heavy, which is a good place to be.

How’s my shot at the Cali programs? Santa Clara Valley, UC Davis, Cedars Sinai, USC, Scripps Clinic/Scripps Green, UC Irvine, UCLA-Olive View, Harbor-UCLA, Kaiser LA, Loma Linda

 

[AlteredScale]

How’s my shot at the Cali programs? Santa Clara Valley, UC Davis, Cedars Sinai, USC, Scripps Clinic/Scripps Green, UC Irvine, UCLA-Olive View, Harbor-UCLA, Kaiser LA, Loma Linda

SCV-maybe
UC Davis-maybe
Cedars Sinai-no
USC-no
Scripps green-no
Scripps mercy-maybe
UC Irvine-maybe
UCLA OV-maybe
Kaiser LA-maybe most likely no
Loma Linda-maybe

You probably want to add more community programs if staying in CA is a huge priority for you.

 

[AlteredScale]

How’s my shot at the Cali programs? Santa Clara Valley, UC Davis, Cedars Sinai, USC, Scripps Clinic/Scripps Green, UC Irvine, UCLA-Olive View, Harbor-UCLA, Kaiser LA, Loma Linda

SCV-maybe
UC Davis-maybe
Cedars Sinai-no
USC-no
Scripps green-no
Scripps mercy-maybe
UC Irvine-maybe
UCLA OV-maybe
Kaiser LA-maybe most likely no
Loma Linda-maybe

You probably want to add more community programs if staying in CA is a huge priority for you.

 

[AlteredScale]

How’s my shot at the Cali programs? Santa Clara Valley, UC Davis, Cedars Sinai, USC, Scripps Clinic/Scripps Green, UC Irvine, UCLA-Olive View, Harbor-UCLA, Kaiser LA, Loma Linda

SCV-maybe
UC Davis-maybe
Cedars Sinai-no
USC-no
Scripps green-no
Scripps mercy-maybe
UC Irvine-maybe
UCLA OV-maybe
Kaiser LA-maybe most likely no
Loma Linda-maybe

You probably want to add more community programs if staying in CA is a huge priority for you.

Are the three manuscripts published and pubmed indexed?

 

[steadyhand]

SCV-maybe
UC Davis-maybe
Cedars Sinai-no
USC-no
Scripps green-no
Scripps mercy-maybe
UC Irvine-maybe
UCLA OV-maybe
Kaiser LA-maybe most likely no
Loma Linda-maybe

You probably want to add more community programs if staying in CA is a huge priority for you.

Are the three manuscripts published and pubmed indexed?

Ok will be realistic and yes they are! How about Kaiser SF, Kaiser Santa Clara, Harbor-UCLA?

 

[steadyhand]

SCV-maybe
UC Davis-maybe
Cedars Sinai-no
USC-no
Scripps green-no
Scripps mercy-maybe
UC Irvine-maybe
UCLA OV-maybe
Kaiser LA-maybe most likely no
Loma Linda-maybe

You probably want to add more community programs if staying in CA is a huge priority for you.

Are the three manuscripts published and pubmed indexed?

Ok will be realistic and yes they are! How about Kaiser SF, Kaiser Santa Clara, Harbor-UCLA? Trying to finalize my list as the days count down

 

[AlteredScale]

Ok will be realistic and yes they are! How about Kaiser SF, Kaiser Santa Clara, Harbor-UCLA? Trying to finalize my list as the days count down

Kaiser SF- theres not a single DO in their entire roster

KaIser SC- maybe (few DOs from touro)
UCLA harbor- maybe

“Maybe” = apply.

 

[Blue29]

Attempting to scale down my list. I attend a top 40 med school, steps 255-260, decent research, ECs, letters, so-so clinical grades. Looking to pursue cardiology. Do not want difficult/long commute to hospital. Currently have 12 reach, 26 target, and 12 safety programs (49). Which programs below should I trim off and how much geographic bias will I experience applying from a southern school?

Case Western
Iowa
Rush
Jefferson
CCF
Maryland
Cincinatti
Loyola
Ohio State

 

[Adjet]

Attempting to scale down my list. I attend a top 40 med school, steps 255-260, decent research, ECs, letters, so-so clinical grades. Looking to pursue cardiology. Do not want difficult/long commute to hospital. Currently have 12 reach, 26 target, and 12 safety programs (49). Which programs below should I trim off and how much geographic bias will I experience applying from a southern school?

Case Western
Iowa
Rush
Jefferson
CCF
Maryland
Cincinatti
Loyola
Ohio State

Those are all decidedly mid-tier programs that you would be well-qualified if not overqualified for. Of those programs, CWRU, Ohio State, and UMD probably have the best reputation, but not by a ton, and everything else is about the same. Theoretically if you applied, some of these programs may not give you an invite if you don't have any ties to the particular area, but it wouldn't be because you're unqualified. You'll certainly get enough invites in general so would just apply to the few cities or programs you would actually be OK matching to from that list (or apply to none of them and you'll still be fine).

 

[Tomatoblast]

School: Mid-tier Pennsylvania MD

Step 1:242
Step 2:250
AOA: Probably not
GHHS: Nope
Rank: 2nd quarter
Research: 8 papers in peer reviewed journals (1 basic science, rest clinical research,ranging from 2nd to 6th author), 1 oral presentation, several poster presentations
Clerkships: H in psych/neuro, HP everything else(met clinical cutoffs for honors but the shelves have been the death of me and likely holding me back from AOA), H in subI/GI (4th year)
LORs: 1 from subI, 1 from GI, 1 from MS3

Hoping for a strong academic IM program that can help me match Heme/Onc down the line. No geographic preference, happy to move to a different region for the 3 years.

Reach:
Penn
UPMC
Beth-Israel
NW
WashU
CW(?)
UTSW

Target:
Jeff
Temple
Cooper
RWJ
NJMS
Tufts
BU
Rush
UMiami
UF
Dartmouth
Brown
Mt.Sinai
GW
Emory
UVA
Cleveland Clinic
Rochester
UMD
Loyola
UMich(?)
Baylor(?)
Duke(?)

I know the no AOA and honors in IM are killers so I'm hoping to see if you have any programs that I should consider applying to.

Thanks a lot and appreciate your help!

 

[whoknows2012]

School: Mid-tier Pennsylvania MD

Step 1:242
Step 2:250
AOA: Probably not
GHHS: Nope
Rank: 2nd quarter
Research: 8 papers in peer reviewed journals (1 basic science, rest clinical research,ranging from 2nd to 6th author), 1 oral presentation, several poster presentations
Clerkships: H in psych/neuro, HP everything else(met clinical cutoffs for honors but the shelves have been the death of me and likely holding me back from AOA), H in subI/GI (4th year)
LORs: 1 from subI, 1 from GI, 1 from MS3

Hoping for a strong academic IM program that can help me match Heme/Onc down the line. No geographic preference, happy to move to a different region for the 3 years.

Reach:
Penn
UPMC
Beth-Israel
NW
WashU
CW(?)
UTSW

Target:
Jeff
Temple
Cooper
RWJ
NJMS
Tufts
BU
Rush
UMiami
UF
Dartmouth
Brown
Mt.Sinai
GW
Emory
UVA
Cleveland Clinic
Rochester
UMD
Loyola
UMich(?)
Baylor(?)
Duke(?)

I know the no AOA and honors in IM are killers so I'm hoping to see if you have any programs that I should consider applying to.

Thanks a lot and appreciate your help!

I see Sinai but no other programs from NY. Is that purposeful?

also NJMS and cooper I wouldn’t consider “targets,” But safeties. May not even need to apply to these

If considering NY Monte would be a target program and NYU Columbia cornell
Would all be reaches (best shot at Cornell/NYU, possibly an edge to Cornell)

Also GW but not Georgetown? Georgetown is the better program

 

[Tomatoblast]

I see Sinai but no other programs from NY. Is that purposeful? also NJMS and cooper I wouldn’t consider “targets.” If considering NY Monte would be a target program and NYU Columbia cornell Would all be reaches (best shot at Cornell/NYU, possibly an edge to Cornell) Thanks for the suggestions, I will look into them! And no real bias against NY programs, I am still researching most of them so I decided to not include them yet.

 

[merlinnus66]

Hey all! Just posting again after making a list with a few advisors.
School: Mid-Tier NE State School
Step 1: 218
Step 2: 235
AOA: nope
Clerkships: 2 HP (Neuro, IM), 3 P (FM, Psych, OB from shelves, clinical honors in all 3) Peds and Psych are P/F because covid
Research: 1 poster, 4-5 pubs in submission at the moment
LORs: 1 Department, 2 subI, 1 from Research mentor that I worked with in clinic as well

Hoping for academic program for fellowships (Cards/Onc) down the line:

Reach:
Hopkins Bayview
Jefferson
Duke
UNC
Emory
Dartmouth
BU
UVA
Tufts
UMD
Rochester
Pitt

Target for interview:
Cooper
NJMS
Einstein
Northwell
GW
Temple
Penn State
Christiana/TJU
RWJ
VCU
Maine Medical
Temple
Stony Brook
Mt. Sinai Beth Israel
MU South Carolina
UVermont
Nashville
UTennessee
NYU Winthrop
Inova Fairfax
Georgetown
Albany

Likely:
Uconn
Umass
Buffalo

Maybe:
Uminnesota
UIC
Loyola
Wayne State
Hospitals and Clinics - WI
MCW
Ann Arbor
Cleveland
Mayo

Thanks so much!

 

[whoknows2012]

Hey all! Just posting again after making a list with a few advisors.
School: Mid-Tier NE State School
Step 1: 218
Step 2: 235
AOA: nope
Clerkships: 2 HP (Neuro, IM), 3 P (FM, Psych, OB from shelves, clinical honors in all 3) Peds and Psych are P/F because covid
Research: 1 poster, 4-5 pubs in submission at the moment
LORs: 1 Department, 2 subI, 1 from Research mentor that I worked with in clinic as well

Hoping for academic program for fellowships (Cards/Onc) down the line:

Reach:
Hopkins Bayview
Jefferson
Duke
UNC
Emory
Dartmouth
BU
UVA
Tufts
UMD
Rochester
Pitt

Target for interview:
Cooper
NJMS
Einstein
Northwell
GW
Temple
Penn State
Christiana/TJU
RWJ
VCU
Maine Medical
Temple
Stony Brook
Mt. Sinai Beth Israel
MU South Carolina
UVermont
Nashville
UTennessee
NYU Winthrop
Inova Fairfax
Georgetown
Albany

Likely:
Uconn
Umass
Buffalo

Maybe:
Uminnesota
UIC
Loyola
Wayne State
Hospitals and Clinics - WI
MCW
Ann Arbor
Cleveland
Mayo

Thanks so much!

Given your app I’d say Monte belongs in your reach group (more similar to those programs) and as far as the maybe’s are you saying you don’t know if you should apply or that it’s unclear whether you’ll receive an IV? If the latter Mayo CCF Uminn Umich and mayo would all be reaches. In particular mayo UMich would be very unlikely get an IV but no harm in applying


In addition to the above, I’d add Jacobi and Sinai west and remove Sinai BI

 

[anon12380]

Hi there, looking any advice:

• USDO
• Step 1: 243
• Step 2: 237
• No red flags in an otherwise generic app; 2 pubs (before medical school); some work experience

I am planning on applying EM and IM since even now I can't decide between the two, and have enjoyed both pretty well. The sub-specialty flexibility of IM though is appealing to me as I enjoyed my Cardiology rotation a lot during third year. Anyways, my app has been pretty EM-oriented with a SLOE, sub-specialty SLOE (ultrasound), and a SLOE from a community EM doc. On the IM side of things I actually have three LORs ready -- none of which are nearly as strong as my EM LORs. I have not done an IM sub-i either, but plan to do one in the coming months.

My first question is: is my app competitive for university IM programs and/or university-affiliated IM programs? I'm from FL, and so my working list of programs to apply to is heavily tilted to the South (although I have no geographical limitations). Programs that I am considering:

• UF Jax
• PRISMA Health
• Augusta University
• UCF Osceola
• Orlando Health
• USF
• UAB
• UConn
• George Washinton
• University of Buffalo
• UPMC
• Allegheny
• RowanSOM
• St. Luke's
• Any program that has >60% DOs that is a university or university-affiliated community program (lol -- I really don't care where I go)

Seems geographical connections may matter more this year than in year's past; while I am from FL, I did my first two years of medical school in PA. Like I said, I am applying to both EM and IM -- I plan on doing an IM sub-i in December to help improve my decision.

Thank you for reading and any advice or criticism of app.

 

[merlinnus66]

Given your app I’d say Monte belongs in your reach group (more similar to those programs) and as far as the maybe’s are you saying you don’t know if you should apply or that it’s unclear whether you’ll receive an IV? If the latter Mayo CCF Uminn Umich and mayo would all be reaches. In particular mayo UMich would be very unlikely get an IV but no harm in applying


In addition to the above, I’d add Jacobi and Sinai west and remove Sinai BI

Thanks for the reply! The 'maybe' list isn't an expectation of whether or not I'll get interviews, but a working list of which ones to pick out of that collection. I'm going for 3-4 midwest apps which would come from those. I'll take those out for sure.

I'll also add those two thank you

 

[AlteredScale]

Hi there, looking any advice:

• USDO
• Step 1: 243
• Step 2: 237
• No red flags in an otherwise generic app; 2 pubs (before medical school); some work experience

I am planning on applying EM and IM since even now I can't decide between the two, and have enjoyed both pretty well. The sub-specialty flexibility of IM though is appealing to me as I enjoyed my Cardiology rotation a lot during third year. Anyways, my app has been pretty EM-oriented with a SLOE, sub-specialty SLOE (ultrasound), and a SLOE from a community EM doc. On the IM side of things I actually have three LORs ready -- none of which are nearly as strong as my EM LORs. I have not done an IM sub-i either, but plan to do one in the coming months.

My first question is: is my app competitive for university IM programs and/or university-affiliated IM programs? I'm from FL, and so my working list of programs to apply to is heavily tilted to the South (although I have no geographical limitations). Programs that I am considering:

• UF Jax
• PRISMA Health
• Augusta University
• UCF Osceola
• Orlando Health
• USF
• UAB
• UConn
• George Washinton
• University of Buffalo
• UPMC
• Allegheny
• RowanSOM
• St. Luke's
• Any program that has >60% DOs that is a university or university-affiliated community program (lol -- I really don't care where I go)

Seems geographical connections may matter more this year than in year's past; while I am from FL, I did my first two years of medical school in PA. Like I said, I am applying to both EM and IM -- I plan on doing an IM sub-i in December to help improve my decision.

Thank you for reading and any advice or criticism of app.

UAB and UB are probably a waste of money. GWU is a maybe. The rest are fine. Sub-I In December not worth it honestly. Be careful applying EM and IM at the same program.

 

[Prehealth1011]

UAB and UB are probably a waste of money. GWU is a maybe. The rest are fine. Sub-I In December not worth it honestly. Be careful applying EM and IM at the same program.

Hey @AlteredScale stupid question - waste of money as in too ****ty to apply to based on his stats?

 

[AlteredScale]

Hey @AlteredScale stupid question - waste of money as in too ****ty to apply to based on his stats?

As in He’s not competitive enough for UAB. UB had a higher chance looking at their roster now.

 

[anon12380]

UAB and UB are probably a waste of money. GWU is a maybe. The rest are fine. Sub-I In December not worth it honestly. Be careful applying EM and IM at the same program.

On a practical level, what is the concern? PDs sharing lists? It may be unavoidable for me that is why I ask! Thanks for taking the time to answer my original post too.

 

[AlteredScale]

On a practical level, what is the concern? PDs sharing lists? It may be unavoidable for me that is why I ask! Thanks for taking the time to answer my original post too.

It’s def possible that lists are shared. Who knows. That stuff is always under wraps but I’ve always been told to be careful dual applying. To be safe maybe ask ahead of time if a program cares?

 

[veebo]

Having trouble with finalizing a list and wanted some help here. Currently sitting around 40 but really don't know if this is necessary I'd rather work my way down to 25-30. I'm wanting to shoot high but don't really know what to expect in terms of invites from top programs. Our PD said to apply with a goal of at least 12-13 interviews and that applying broadly is important when applying to top places which is understandable.

Low-Mid tier USMD school - not really sure the ranking spot or difference but it would fall somewhere in these categories
No red flags
Step 1 - 261
Step 2 - 270
Honored all 7 core rotations
AOA yes - 1st quartile but this isn't stated anywhere in our application for our school this year
2 pubs, 3 posters, 1 oral presentation from 3 research experiences with a couple more pubs in the future
5-7 work and volunteer experiences each that I'm confident in talking about
Sending 2 IM attending, 1 psych attending, and a chair letter out

Hopefully looking to wean some of these off my list and see what places I should be confident in or not expect anything. Trying hard not to over apply but kind of clueless in what to expect this cycle. I plan on doing a fellowship in heme/onc and my research is focused in that so if any of these programs aren't great for heme/onc I'd be happy to know about that as well.

Baylor/MDACC
Beth Israel Deaconess
Boston U
BWU
Cedar Sinai
Cleveland Clinic
Duke
Emory
Mt. Sinai
Indiana
Johns Hopkins
Mass Gen
Mayo Clinic
Northwestern
South Carolina
Columbia
Cornell
Ohio State
Rush
Stanford
UCLA
UC-Irvine
UC-San Diego
UCSF
UC-Davis
UChicago
Cinci
Colorado
UIC
Michigan
UNC
Penn
USCali
UTexas-HSC
UT-Southwestern
Utah
Virginia
UWashington
Wisconsin
Vandy
WashU
Yale

 

[Adjet]

Having trouble with finalizing a list and wanted some help here. Currently sitting around 40 but really don't know if this is necessary I'd rather work my way down to 25-30. I'm wanting to shoot high but don't really know what to expect in terms of invites from top programs. Our PD said to apply with a goal of at least 12-13 interviews and that applying broadly is important when applying to top places which is understandable.

Low-Mid tier USMD school - not really sure the ranking spot or difference but it would fall somewhere in these categories
No red flags
Step 1 - 261
Step 2 - 270
Honored all 7 core rotations
AOA yes - 1st quartile but this isn't stated anywhere in our application for our school this year
2 pubs, 3 posters, 1 oral presentation from 3 research experiences with a couple more pubs in the future
5-7 work and volunteer experiences each that I'm confident in talking about
Sending 2 IM attending, 1 psych attending, and a chair letter out

Hopefully looking to wean some of these off my list and see what places I should be confident in or not expect anything. Trying hard not to over apply but kind of clueless in what to expect this cycle. I plan on doing a fellowship in heme/onc and my research is focused in that so if any of these programs aren't great for heme/onc I'd be happy to know about that as well.

Baylor/MDACC
Beth Israel Deaconess
Boston U
BWU
Cedar Sinai
Cleveland Clinic
Duke
Emory
Mt. Sinai
Indiana
Johns Hopkins
Mass Gen
Mayo Clinic
Northwestern
South Carolina
Columbia
Cornell
Ohio State
Rush
Stanford
UCLA
UC-Irvine
UC-San Diego
UCSF
UC-Davis
UChicago
Cinci
Colorado
UIC
Michigan
UNC
Penn
USCali
UTexas-HSC
UT-Southwestern
Utah
Virginia
UWashington
Wisconsin
Vandy
WashU
Yale

You'll get a good number of invites so probably don't need too many safeties. You could probably apply to just a few from the following and be totally fine: Boston U, Cedars Sinai, CCF, Indiana, MUSC, Ohio State, Rush, UCI, UCD, Cinci, UIC, USC, UTH, Utah, Wisconsin. Everything else is target/low reach

 

[dwarfhotot]

Hi! I know this is last minute, but was wondering how my list looks. I'm not entirely sure how I measure up.
Mid-tier MD, midwest
Rank - 2nd quartile
Step 1 - 220-224
Step 2 - 230-234
AOA - lol no
GHHS - yes
Clerkships: H (IM + sub-i, psych, OBGYN), HP (FM, peds, neuro). Covid rotation was P/F, so passed surgery.
Research: All benchwork, abt 3yrs of stuff between undergrad and early med school. 2 pubs as 3rd/4th author, 2 abstracts, 1 abstract pending.
Other EC: Some preclinical student club leadership, 4 types of other volunteering/service, mentoring and teaching M1/M2s
LORs: 1 DOM, 1 v strong letter, 2 good letters (not as close to these letter writers)
Would love to teach, but generally want to work with underserved communities. Not sure if I want to specialize, prob would be interested in something medium/less competitive, but want to try to keep doors open. Would prob be pretty happy with primary care or as a hospitalist.

I'd love to be in Chicago, connections to the area. Otherwise, family in midwest, so anywhere around here would be fine. Applying broadly overall. Most curious to see what would be safe for me, as well as what is on target. Aiming for like 60 programs at the suggestion of my school's IM PD, since I'm open to going anywhere.

Midwest:
Adv Lutheran
Adv Masonic
Adv Christ/UIC
UIC
Loyola
Loyola MacNeal
UChicago Northshore
UChicago
SIU
U of Illinois - Peoria
Indiana
St. Vincent
SLU
Iowa
Iowa - Des Moines
Iowa Medical Edu Collab
Wisconsin
Medical College of Wisconsin
Henry Ford/WS
Wright State
U Cincinatti
OSU
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic
Nebraska
Creighton
Kansas
Arkansas
Minnesota
Hennepin

NE:
U Vermont
UConn
Lehigh Valley
NYU Winthrop
Hofstra/Northwell at Lenox Hill
Temple
Maine Medical Center
Rochester

East:
U Virginia
VCU
U West Virginia
Hopkins Bayview
Wake Forest
Atrium

SE:
U Kentucky
Louisville
Tennessee (Nashville, Memphis)
Mayo Jax
USF
UF
UMiami

SW:
Tulane
LSU (all?)
?? I don't know anything about TX schools

W:
UW - Boise Idaho
Spokane Teaching Health Center
Huntington Memorial
Kaisers (all?)
UCLA Harbor
UCLA Olive
Scripps Green
UC Irvine
UC Riverside
U Nevada - LV, Reno

 

[Adjet]

Hi! I know this is last minute, but was wondering how my list looks. I'm not entirely sure how I measure up.
Mid-tier MD, midwest
Rank - 2nd quartile
Step 1 - 220-224
Step 2 - 230-234
AOA - lol no
GHHS - yes
Clerkships: H (IM + sub-i, psych, OBGYN), HP (FM, peds, neuro). Covid rotation was P/F, so passed surgery.
Research: All benchwork, abt 3yrs of stuff between undergrad and early med school. 2 pubs as 3rd/4th author, 2 abstracts, 1 abstract pending.
Other EC: Some preclinical student club leadership, 4 types of other volunteering/service, mentoring and teaching M1/M2s
LORs: 1 DOM, 1 v strong letter, 2 good letters (not as close to these letter writers)
Would love to teach, but generally want to work with underserved communities. Not sure if I want to specialize, prob would be interested in something medium/less competitive, but want to try to keep doors open. Would prob be pretty happy with primary care or as a hospitalist.

I'd love to be in Chicago, connections to the area. Otherwise, family in midwest, so anywhere around here would be fine. Applying broadly overall. Most curious to see what would be safe for me, as well as what is on target. Aiming for like 60 programs at the suggestion of my school's IM PD, since I'm open to going anywhere.

Midwest:
Adv Lutheran
Adv Masonic
Adv Christ/UIC
UIC
Loyola
Loyola MacNeal
UChicago Northshore
UChicago
SIU
U of Illinois - Peoria
Indiana
St. Vincent
SLU
Iowa
Iowa - Des Moines
Iowa Medical Edu Collab
Wisconsin
Medical College of Wisconsin
Henry Ford/WS
Wright State
U Cincinatti
OSU
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic
Nebraska
Creighton
Kansas
Arkansas
Minnesota
Hennepin

NE:
U Vermont
UConn
Lehigh Valley
NYU Winthrop
Hofstra/Northwell at Lenox Hill
Temple
Maine Medical Center
Rochester

East:
U Virginia
VCU
U West Virginia
Hopkins Bayview
Wake Forest
Atrium

SE:
U Kentucky
Louisville
Tennessee (Nashville, Memphis)
Mayo Jax
USF
UF
UMiami

SW:
Tulane
LSU (all?)
?? I don't know anything about TX schools

W:
UW - Boise Idaho
Spokane Teaching Health Center
Huntington Memorial
Kaisers (all?)
UCLA Harbor
UCLA Olive
Scripps Green
UC Irvine
UC Riverside
U Nevada - LV, Reno

Fine list. Think you have a reasonable shot at the mid tier chicago programs

 

[merlinnus66]

Random question to y'all: I was told by my school to wait 2 weeks post ERAS to contact schools in different regions (Midwest) for the purpose of expressing interest. Given that this is a delayed cycle already and it's super weird, is it too jumpy of me to contact them end of this week/Monday of next?

 

[gutonc]

Random question to y'all: I was told by my school to wait 2 weeks post ERAS to contact schools in different regions (Midwest) for the purpose of expressing interest. Given that this is a delayed cycle already and it's super weird, is it too jumpy of me to contact them end of this week/Monday of next?

What crappy school is giving this horrible advice?

 

[johnpablo85]

What crappy school is giving this horrible advice?

What is good advice in this situation then?

 

[gutonc]

What is good advice in this situation then?

Don't bug PD's and PC's. They're busy enough right now. They know you're interested, you sent them an application.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Don't bug PD's and PC's. They're busy enough right now. They know you're interested, you sent them an application.

But then if you wait 4 weeks later, some programs may have already filled all their spots by then. I've seen so many mixed messages about this.

 

[gutonc]

But then if you wait 4 weeks later, some programs may have already filled all their spots by then. I've seen so many mixed messages about this.

Then you're getting a mixture of good and bad advice.

An LOI is NOT going to magically convince a program that wasn't going to interview you that you're now the perfect person for their program. It's just not. Stop the madness.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Didn't feel like this question deserved it's own thread and thought it was most relevant to this one so....

What is the most popular month for IM interviews in a normal ERAS cycle? I'm trying to plan some life things for next year and I'm currently under the impression that most take place between Nov-Dec. Is this correct? Regardless, from my understanding you typically get offered a range of dates, so if I had something planned on a weekend in mid/late October (basically this time next year) it shouldn't really negatively impact interviews right?

 

[gutonc]

Didn't feel like this question deserved it's own thread and thought it was most relevant to this one so....

What is the most popular month for IM interviews in a normal ERAS cycle? I'm trying to plan some life things for next year and I'm currently under the impression that most take place between Nov-Dec. Is this correct? Regardless, from my understanding you typically get offered a range of dates, so if I had something planned on a weekend in mid/late October (basically this time next year) it shouldn't really negatively impact interviews right?

Mid-Nov to Mid-Jan. I had interviews (over a decade ago, so take that for what it's worth) as early as the first week of October and as late as mid-February.

 

[AlteredScale]

Didn't feel like this question deserved it's own thread and thought it was most relevant to this one so....

What is the most popular month for IM interviews in a normal ERAS cycle? I'm trying to plan some life things for next year and I'm currently under the impression that most take place between Nov-Dec. Is this correct? Regardless, from my understanding you typically get offered a range of dates, so if I had something planned on a weekend in mid/late October (basically this time next year) it shouldn't really negatively impact interviews right?

For me last year it was oct-dec. I got most of my invites in oct/nov. i got a few maybe 3-4 before this time.

Since next year may switch back to actually interviews potentially, you need to be available. I’ve been given IIs where the latest interview slot was 2 weeks out. So take with that what you will and if you are willing to risk not interviewing at a program if you will be traveling.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

For me last year it was oct-dec. I got most of my invites in oct/nov. i got a few maybe 3-4 before this time.

Since next year may switch back to actually interviews potentially, you need to be available. I’ve been given IIs where the latest interview slot was 2 weeks out. So take with that what you will and if you are willing to risk not interviewing at a program if you will be traveling.

Yeah I'm not talking about anything major, literally just not being available for like 2 days around this time next year. I would be available for any other time, but life must go on too haha, so just wanted to make sure it wouldn't be a huge deal.

 

[merlinnus66]

Then you're getting a mixture of good and bad advice.

An LOI is NOT going to magically convince a program that wasn't going to interview you that you're now the perfect person for their program. It's just not. Stop the madness.

Fully understand that no amount of interest is going to convince a program to take you if you're not the right fit for them. However, I have heard that in order to even be considered for some programs in the midwest, especially if coming from the east/west coast, it's advisable to reach out to them personally to let them know your intentions. That's why I was wondering when an acceptable time range might be. Since we're saying to give them a break, I'm getting the feel of a week past submission to give some time to cool down?

 

[qwwerty]

Sooo this is probably too late but want to know if I need to apply for more programs...very anxious right now.

Northeast school, unranked/(low tier?) MD
Rank - 4nd quartile
Step 1 - 23x
Step 2 - 24x
AOA - lol nope
GHHS - nope

Clerkships: No honors 3rd yr (good clinicals but terrible with shelf until getting avg/above avg the latter half of the year...)
HP (IM, peds, neuro, surg), P (OBGYN, psych), HP in sub-I in IM (team only did admissions & VERY low patient volume cause of covid :/ )
Honored my last two 4th yr IM electives but I hear it doesn't matter.

Research: ~3 years in college basic science, 2 yrs full time translational science bench work for clinical studies (gap years), 1 summer after MS1.
(1) 1st author pub & (1) 3rd author from gap years, (1) 1st author pub thats a literature review from that summer.

Other EC: Pretty bare bones, no leadership positions but volunteer work at the free clinic and community clinic/outreach work with underserved + music related volunteer work throughout college -> gap years -> med school.

LORs: 1 DOM, 2 I believe to be strong LOR, 1 probably good

Not exactly sure what my goal is but just hoping for a decent program to train to be a doc (ideally back home in CA or NY where I went to school). Don't know if I want to specialize but still want to keep my options open at this point.

CA
Adventist Memorial
Alameda
CPMC
Huntington Memorial
Kaiser Oakland, SF, SC, LA, SoCal
Loma Linda
LA County Habor
Olive View
Riverside Community
UC Riverside
SB Cottage
Santa Clara Valley
Scripps Green & Mercy
St. Mary Long Beach
St. Mary SF
Stanford
UCLA
UC Irvine
UCSF
UCSF/Fresno
UC Davis
USC

Oregon & Washington:
OHS
Providence (both programs)
Virginia Mason
Legacy health

NY
Cedars Sinai
Family Health @ NYU
Mt Sinai BI
Mt Sinai Morningside
Mt Sinai
Jacobi
Montefiore Moses/Weiler
Columbia
Cornell
NYU
Stony Brook
SUNY Downstate
Zucker Lenox Hill
Zucker Hofstra/Northwell

Boston:
Boston U
Mt Auburn
Tufts

Pennsylvania:
Loyola
Rush
Jefferson
Temple
Pennsy hospital
UPMC

Rest:
Bayview
Rutgers Newark
Tulane
U of Chicago northshore
U of I at Chicago
U of Maryland
U of Miami
Medstar Georgetown