Agreed. I'm aiming for top 20 programs because I'm interested in competitive fellowships (GI/Cards) and strong research opportunities. I'm guessing the big 4 will be a reach (like it will be for most) but was hoping top 10 may be reasonable shots.
I agree with you both. I did not mean to imply clinical training was better at top 10 institutions, just that prestige and networking may be enhanced. In fact, I think there is an argument to be made that the clinical training at top 10 institutions may be worse than lower ranked places because the career goals of people at those institutions may be more likely to be research focused. More time in didactics/research = less emphasis on clinical care = worse training.
If you want to practice in Florida, then apply to all Florida programs you want and then some regionally close by. As a DO, over-applying is not as bad as under-applying. I think about 50-60 programs would be appropriate if you don't care about prestige.
The crossed-out programs are going to be donations to ERAS/AAMC. Feel free to apply, but you won't get any satisfaction there. And if UM is Michigan, cross that one out too.
Your list is a little all over the place, both geographically and in terms of competitiveness. You have some extremely competitive programs (Duke, Vanderbilt, UW) and some very not competitive programs (Drexel doesn't even have an IM program anymore FYI, but would have fallen into that group).
Thanks for the response. As for specifically the crossed out CA schools, I am from CA, does this change any of that calculus or are they simply out of my shooting range? Should've clarified by UM I meant University of Miami.
Add U South Florida, not very competitive for IM but Moffitt is a legit cancer center.
Hey not the person who responded to you originally, but I'd recommend applying to all the places that were crossed out. Your step 1 score is within batting range and you'd be surprised by the interviews you'll get and the ones you don't.. Attendings read these apps and they sometimes aren't the most objective, inviting random people. Think of the weirdoes you probably have at your med school. That was my experience this cycle. The trend is to apply to more programs so definitely aim for the stars and apply to all of them and more. You only have one shot at this so make it count.
1. CCC status is completely irrelevant to your training in IM, or Oncology. It's about available patient support services, clinical trial opportunities and R01 funding for basic science researchers. It has absolutely nothing to do with your training. I mean, if you're comparing a NYC, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc program with CCC status vs not, I guess that might be somewhat useful. But in the rest of the country, it's irrelevant.
I'm not sure what a "community based MD program" means. Is this a school anyone has heard of? Where have people gone for IM from your school in the recent past?
Would add:
1. All screens are dynamic. Don't obsess over them since there's nothing you can do about them. Be realistic and practical.
Research isn't really a huge deal for IM like it is for other subspecialties. It's nice to have, but you seem to have extensive involvement in other extracirriculars which should be fine. The much more important factor is clinical grades. If you haven't done your IM rotation yet, focus really hard to Honor. Honestly, without knowing your IM rotation grade, it's difficult to provide an accurate assessment of your chances at all those places. Without being AOA, many of the programs @gutonc highlighted would be very difficult to recieve interviews from (since you go to a mid-tier school).
You seem to have a strong application but I think you may be underestimating the affect coming from a DO school has on your chances of matching at top IM programs.
Thanks for weighing in but how are Brown and Dartmouth reaches there are DOs who match there every year? UNC and BU also have DOs and UVA has matched DOs in the past 3 years. With 250s steps all honors in third year and first author research if there are DOs on the roster then id imagine I have a pretty good shot at Brown Dart UNC Pennsy BU and UVA? Also Pennsy is not HUP its the easier of the two and they have many DOs there several from my DO school (2 matched there last year). @AlteredScale where you at
I’ll start off by saying that you appear on paper at least to have an excellent CV and app, especially if you hit that 270+ on step 2. The problem with wanting T25 isn’t that you’re not a strong enough candidate; all else being equal you’re actually quite a strong candidate as I’m sure you realize. The issue as has been mentioned is the DO bias that still persists at many academic programs. Many won’t interview DOs and if they do, it’s a very small number. It’s an uphill battle here but you are well situated to match at an academic program though T25 is a stretch in my opinion; and also a totally irrelevant target IMO given that you’ll get good training and research opportunities at so many of these programs on your list that aren’t considered T25
thanks! Tufts has no DOs and UNC BU and UVA do thats why I had the latter three as targets-i figure any IM program with DOs id have a solid shot. Also idk why i have cornell on there lmao I dont wanna go there at all so I apologize for putting that on there. I want to stay away friom NYC. Also dont want to apply to any community programs at all (only academic/uni). I also completely understand that i may not match T25 because I am a DO but I at least want to try (Duke Yale or Vandy would be my dream but I realize its a huge stretch). As far as what DO school I come from I got to RowanSOM which I would say is one of the more established programs but wouldnt that be irrelevant since to most academic programs DO=DO=DO lol
Makes sense. That’s fine re; nyc was just curious bc Cornell was on there. It’s true that for all intents and purposes, you have a shot at any program that has DO’s. That suggests they won’t screen you but keep in mind how academic programs in particular may use filters; it’s not necessarily all applicants with ->230 for example, it actually could be all applicants >230 from certain programs. They use filters differently for different types of applicants so just to keep in mind for accurate expectations
Thanks! Id imagine the best way to increase my chances is to keep pumping out pubs, try and get my PI from wake to make calls on my behalf, and try and do Sub-Is at my reaches crush them and get letters from them? The latter Obviously easier said than done but I will do whatever it takes. My PI is very well connected in academics and said he would make calls if he needs to
I guess it boils down to how we define reach versus target. I realize some of the programs I labeled as reach have a few DOs, but they are few and far between. So I would label all of those as a reach, not impossible, but also not likely. Programs that regularly take DOs I would label as target programs.
I mean that kinda sucks with how hard I worked that even the places with few DOs (UNC BU Brown and Dartmouth) are reaches for me since I am not sure what they had that I dont at this point. Damn that sucks haha I want namebrand ill be completely honest and Ive worked my ass off to have a strong shot there so to hear they are reaches kills me
If you want name brand I’ll put in another plug to at least apply to nyc metro programs and it’ll give you more options. Alternatively if you already know you’ll hate it or really don’t want to even give it a shot, then ignore the programs listed below. Also re; only applying to academic programs-Cleveland clinic FL Mayo az and Florida and Pennsy are academic affiliated community programs. Also I should’ve said if you meant UPMC main campus that’s definitely reach, not target.
Are those namebrand? I kind of want to get out of NY/NJ but would consider RWJ however they never take DOs and the PD i heard is super super anti DO from several kids who are current MS4s about to graduate. They told me RWJ class avg Step is like 215-225 and some of kids at my school with 250s didnt even get interviews kinda sad but its reality. Didnt know that about Mayo Pennsy and CC so thanks for letting me know! Its crazy how much being a DO sucks in my position feels like all my hard work was a waste when im more likely to match at academic places where DOs have worse stats than me. I truly was under the impression that Brown UVA UNC BU and Dartmouth were targets (especially Dartmouth and Brown since tons of kids in the class above me that had strong apps with 250s got interviews at both but didnt rank them high)
On the name brand question it would give you more opportunities to match into competitive fellowships at least more so than 1/2 of your target programs (talking specifically about Monte, Rutgers, northwell in particular). Re Rutgers not sure how they would know the class step average given that it is not something that is public knowledge but 🤷♂️. I was chief resident and was directly involved in recruitment and interviewing at a large academic program and though I could probably estimate I wouldn’t have the slightest idea what the step 1 average was of the program.
Monte does take DOs though it’s only a few (ie 1-3 per year).When I was there the first year we opened up to interviewing DOs we invited 10 for interviews ranked 5 and I believe 2 matched?
Yeah I think Dartmouth and Brown some of my favorite places. Ive talked with many of the DO residents there now and actually very few of them had any research surprisingly. 1 poster or like a case report they wrote up but thats it with like 240s or 250s steps. But yeah Rowan had several students interview at Brown and Dartmouth this past year but they all said Brown was too far and Dartmouth too remote and cold lol plus rowan students are known to stay in the tri state area we had like 2 students match NJMS and 6 match at Cooper
Yeah Monte is a strong program I think ill add it to my list
I think so yes as long as you’re still working on the service with IM residents and/or IM subspecialty faculty
Good question lol regardless all i know is being at a Top 20 med school goes a long way in top tier IM so keep your head up! Are you AOA?
I think you should still be able to get some of the names in the first group
My school eliminated AOA, so no one in the class gets it... idk if this is a helpful or hurtful thing. Maybe helpful in my case because I doubt I would've got it based on my clinical grades
Good chance at the former given pedigree, but 2nd tier also very likely. Make sure you prep well for interviews and do well on step 2. IM is likely gonna be more competitive with the EM people shunting over. Just FYI, Cleveland Clinic is probably a tier below the rest (still good but lot of controversy)
IM is gonna be more competitive bc of EM job market? that sounds like a stretch
at least a few years ago, the schools that eliminated AOA weren't schools that needed it in the first place
Not to be a downer and not trying to be rude, but judging by your list you think you are way more competitive than you actually will be. You are a DO (there's not really such a thing as a "top tier" DO school), in the bottom half of your class, with a below average step 1 score, and no extracurriculars.
That's a weird-ass list, but probably driven by a combination of "grandma programs", places you're going to be competitive at and some apparent random googling (VM, Spokane?!?).
Looks like we're targeting the same region/programs. Good luck friend! Maybe we'll run into each other on the trail.
Yup! Good luck to you as well! Maybe we might not run into each other if interviews are virtual this year haha.
