Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[Crayola227]

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So sorry. This sounds pretty bad to be honest. I don't say that to squash your hopes or to tell you not to try your damndest.

My advice would be to focus on the least competitive programs in the least competitive specialty in the least competitive areas and apply broadly. This is not the time to shoot for the stars. Read online about any and everything you can do to boost your app for an IMG. Externships, observorships, research, networking. When you fit into the category of not looking good on paper, you have to figure out other ways to make connections and have people want to help/hire you despite what is on paper.

As far as your PS, I hope people more knowledgeable than me can say, but given you are IMG and the red flags you have said are not the kind to not be immediately apparent, I would address this in the PS but please get confirmation on that advice from someone besides me.

Godspeed.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Applied to around 200 programs. 2 invites thus far. About 30 or so rejections.
Step 1- 210
CS- passed
Ck- 229
Passed all on first attempt. US citizen IMG, med school in Europe. All US rotations. Good LOR's, 2 IM and 1 FM.
I also applied to about 60 FM spots as well. No love on the FM side yet.
Should I be extremely worried at this point?

Your Step 1 score is probably the biggest hurdle here to be honest. It's below average even for an AMG and very below avg for an IMG. Also no research

I'm not sure honestly when FM starts to invite people but they can't be surely as competitive as the IM match. Also not sure where you went geographically - you can easily do just 200 programs east and west coast combined and ignore the south and Midwest which may be a much better place to try for

 

[useless123]

So sorry. This sounds pretty bad to be honest. I don't say that to squash your hopes or to tell you not to try your damndest.

My advice would be to focus on the least competitive programs in the least competitive specialty in the least competitive areas and apply broadly. This is not the time to shoot for the stars. Read online about any and everything you can do to boost your app for an IMG. Externships, observorships, research, networking. When you fit into the category of not looking good on paper, you have to figure out other ways to make connections and have people want to help/hire you despite what is on paper.

As far as your PS, I hope people more knowledgeable than me can say, but given you are IMG and the red flags you have said are not the kind to not be immediately apparent, I would address this in the PS but please get confirmation on that advice from someone besides me.

Godspeed.

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate your honesty. I'm interested in IM. The sad thing is, that when you don't count the failures, my grades are B+ on average overall. With them I fall somewhere into C+ category. I was working really hard to overcome my issues, and tried as hard as I could to Ace the boards, but from what your saying it's all for nothing.

 

[jdh71]

If only we had a thread for these types of questions . . .

Alas . . .

 

[premedk]

I have below average scores and am in the bottom of my class(mid tier US-MD), no other red flags. I applied to a bunch of mid/low tier academic places in my region and some unknown community programs. I got invited to most of the community places(6), but only 2 academic programs(out of ~20). My chair and dean sent out emails to 6 academic places last week begging for interviews. I'm hoping to get at least 2 more interviews, so I can rank the academic places first and match in my top 4. Is it reasonable to expect a couple more academic interviews and are programs still sending out invites?

 

[Crayola227]

It's still mid Nov so there is still *some* hope of more invites. Yes sometimes they do them in batches. Sometimes they get cancelations and start working down the list.

My feeling that I share with people is that if you are not in the top half of the class, be prepared to go a tier down. There are like 3x as many nobody community programs as academic ones, and like what, 90% of students are coming from an academic institution? So do the math. A lot of people are going to go from academic to community. Who is that likely to be?

Seriously guys, you need to get real with yourselves. If you were not a rockstar at your med school but just the average joe trying to get by, you are looking at an average joe residency. Most of those spots are at community programs. Meaning, you were likely a rockstar in college. Do you feel that when you went to med school that stayed the case? Or did it feel like a big drop for you? If that is the case and med school was like demotion for you, then reach down not up, you need to match or.... I won't even finish that.

Interviewing at 4 academic programs and then ranking them 1-4 does not mean you will match at any one of those places despite the rosy statistics you read. That only applies to people who had good strategy on where they applied, interviewed, were liked, and ranked. If they rank you toward the bottom of the list, and the people ahead of you on their list rank them as you do, then you will be out of luck. If you do not go on enough interviews where you are competitive, you will be out of luck.

That said, yes you should always rank according to your true preference. Don't believe me check out NRMP website which does a good job explaining that.

I would beg not only for interviews at academic institutions which are not pouring from heaven right now, but also some of the community programs if it gets down to it. Personally I couldn't let out a breath until I had 12-15 interviews lined up, maybe more. From anywhere.

INTERVIEW MATCH INTERVIEW MATCH

 

[235009]

I have below average scores and am in the bottom of my class(mid tier US-MD), no other red flags. I applied to a bunch of mid/low tier academic places in my region and some unknown community programs. I got invited to most of the community places(6), but only 2 academic programs(out of ~20). My chair and dean sent out emails to 6 academic places last week begging for interviews. I'm hoping to get at least 2 more interviews, so I can rank the academic places first and match in my top 4. Is it reasonable to expect a couple more academic interviews and are programs still sending out invites?

If you give us the names of the specific programs we can potentially give a more directed answer but in general with those stats you shouldn't hold your breath about any of those places you haven't heard back from and if you do hear from them at this point after your chair and Dean have "begged" for you then you can expect to be riding the end of their rank list or not ranked at all. It depends on what you're considering mid tier but your stats are not on par with applicants who match at those programs. Keep in mind also that deans and program chairs are many times out of touch with how competitive IM has become. A program that in the recent past have people with your stats a shot may now filter you out because of your scores or class rank.

 

[IMreshopeful]

If you give us the names of the specific programs we can potentially give a more directed answer but in general with those stats you shouldn't hold your breath about any of those places you haven't heard back from and if you do hear from them at this point after your chair and Dean have "begged" for you then you can expect to be riding the end of their rank list or not ranked at all. It depends on what you're considering mid tier but your stats are not on par with applicants who match at those programs. Keep in mind also that deans and program chairs are many times out of touch with how competitive IM has become. A program that in the recent past have people with your stats a shot may now filter you out because of your scores or class rank.

Agree very much with this. IM is becoming competitive. That being said I feel like people don't actually understand what is a "mid-tier" or high tier residency - I think SDN is partly to blame due to disproportionate number of neurotic people who are clearly the best in their class stats wise and are worried about matching to MGH instead of BWH or Hopkins, as opposed to most normal human beings.

 

[premedk]

If you give us the names of the specific programs we can potentially give a more directed answer

I have letters of support to UF-Jax, Carolinas(higher tier community), MUSC(reach, but our school has good relationship with that program), UF-Mayo, USC-Columbia, GW(I have a strong public health background), East Carolina U. Fortunately I generally get along with people pretty well so faculty was very happy to do this for me, I just don't know if it will make a different.

Earlier in the season, home PD said I should only be "looking into academic programs" and that's despite knowing my numbers. Said they were nothing to be ashamed of and that I'm not high risk for failing boards. I don't know if they were trying to sabotage me or what but that was his advice.

My chair and PD said I would likely rank high in our program. But that's pretty vague and I'm not sure what that means. As far as being ranked at other places,i've gotten good feedback that I would be "a good fit" and that "I hope you choose to come here". But reading sdn, I've seen that programs make such comments all the time and sometimes there're just bs'ing.

Personally, I have no problem going to a community place and may have a better experience at such a program. But unfortunately academic snobbery is very real and fellowship directors prefer residents from known academic programs and look down on community program especially unknown and new community programs which several of my interviews have been at. I've met with several subspecialty faculty members including my home program PD, who basically scoffed at the idea of considering a community program. "only if you don't want to do a competative fellowship" they said.

 

[IMreshopeful]

I have letters of support to UF-Jax, Carolinas(higher tier community), MUSC(reach, but our school has good relationship with that program), UF-Mayo, USC-Columbia, GW(I have a strong public health background), East Carolina U. Fortunately I generally get along with people pretty well so faculty was very happy to do this for me, I just don't know if it will make a different.

Earlier in the season, home PD said I should only be "looking into academic programs" and that's despite knowing my numbers. Said they were nothing to be ashamed of and that I'm not high risk for failing boards. I don't know if they were trying to sabotage me or what but that was his advice.

My chair and PD said I would likely rank high in our program. But that's pretty vague and I'm not sure what that means. As far as being ranked at other places,i've gotten good feedback that I would be "a good fit" and that "I hope you choose to come here". But reading sdn, I've seen that programs make such comments all the time and sometimes there're just bs'ing.

Personally, I have no problem going to a community place and may have a better experience at such a program. But unfortunately academic snobbery is very real and fellowship directors prefer residents from known academic programs and look down on community program especially unknown and new community programs which several of my interviews have been at. I've met with several subspecialty faculty members including my home program PD, who basically scoffed at the idea of considering a community program. "only if you don't want to do a competative fellowship" they said.

So they are not wrong when they say that coming from most community programs, matching a competitive fellowship like GI or cardiology is hard. It's not just academic snobbery. There's less opportunity for research, which is a must, and fewer well known people to write letters of recommendation for you. That being said not all community programs are made equal and there are some with a great reputation who do just fine matching fellowship. And your home program can't be very committal in saying if they'd take you even if you are number 1 because it reflects badly if the match doesn't work out in their favor.

My advice is to reach out to those programs and see if they've reviewed your apps. You probably have enough places to match, but if you are really interested then definitely give those places a call or an email.

 

[Crayola227]

I have letters of support to UF-Jax, Carolinas(higher tier community), MUSC(reach, but our school has good relationship with that program), UF-Mayo, USC-Columbia, GW(I have a strong public health background), East Carolina U. Fortunately I generally get along with people pretty well so faculty was very happy to do this for me, I just don't know if it will make a different.

Earlier in the season, home PD said I should only be "looking into academic programs" and that's despite knowing my numbers. Said they were nothing to be ashamed of and that I'm not high risk for failing boards. I don't know if they were trying to sabotage me or what but that was his advice.

Guessing it wasn't intentional. Kids, don't take anyone's word on how safe to play this. If you don't match you don't match and their life goes on. It's up to you to be aggressive in applying broadly and realistically.

My chair and PD said I would likely rank high in our program. But that's pretty vague and I'm not sure what that means. As far as being ranked at other places,i've gotten good feedback that I would be "a good fit" and that "I hope you choose to come here". But reading sdn, I've seen that programs make such comments all the time and sometimes there're just bs'ing.

They are always blowing smoke up your bum. Don't believe a word that comes out of their mouths. Nothing any program says or does should reduce the number of places you apply, how low you apply, decrease the number of interviews you go on, or affect the order of your rank list. This is a numbers game and you are looking out for number one. They certainly are looking out for themselves don't be naive on that one.

Personally, I have no problem going to a community place and may have a better experience at such a program. But unfortunately academic snobbery is very real and fellowship directors prefer residents from known academic programs and look down on community program especially unknown and new community programs which several of my interviews have been at. I've met with several subspecialty faculty members including my home program PD, who basically scoffed at the idea of considering a community program. "only if you don't want to do a competative fellowship" they said.

Yeah, sorry, that's the reality. Don't do IM if you're not prepared to be a hospitalist, work outpt, or do a less competitive less highly paying subspecialty, like rheum (which is becoming more competitive I hear). Anyone going to med school should be prepared to be forced into primary care if **** hits fans.

Naw, I don't mean to be hard on you. The match sneaks up on people and schools can be a little laissez faire about advising. After things settle out let your advisors know what you learned here on SDN and what your outcome was with getting interviews back.

 

[premedk]

My advice is to reach out to those programs and see if they've reviewed your apps. You probably have enough places to match, but if you are really interested then definitely give those places a call or an email.

Thanks, I'll do that for those programs. Not holding my breath though. Apparently none of the programs replied back, which is annoying and pretty rude to the chair and dean.

Kids, don't take anyone's word on how safe to play this. If you don't match you don't match and their life goes on. It's up to you to be aggressive in applying broadly and realistically.

I agree, which is why I applied to a couple of small community programs, all of which I got interviews to and was well liked at. I personally know some of the faculty, and am very sure I'll match at least one of those places if it came down to it. But honestly, I actually felt sorry for most of the people I interviewed with at those programs; some were out of medicine for several years, some had board failures, and all were foreign medical graduates many without visas. One of the faculty members was honest enough to admit(to me) that some were very "desperate" just to get in somewhere. It would be pretty upsetting if I have to go to such a program. I just got another interview to a program in its second year in south Florida, I may just skip that interview.

I still need to check the scramble statistics to see if it's better to not rank those potentially sketchy programs and risk SOAPing. I am now at 7 academic/reputable community places now. I would be 11 including sketchy(FMG mills and brand new) programs.

 

[Crayola227]

Check with someone else who knows more here, but I wouldn't use statistics to work that out.

The stats on SOAPing are not good, SOAP is to be avoided at all costs unless you really feel going unmatched, un-SOAPed, having a year off, and going through the whole ERAS & interview process a second time is preferable to program # 11 and it is a risk you are willing to take, people have chosen to leave a program off the list and accept the above and try to SOAP to something they like better, but read through the post history of the last SOAP cycle. Sounded horrifically brutal.

EDITED:
*SOAP you have less control than in regular match process.
1) You can't control where the slots will be left after the match.
At start of the match can apply anywhere, at least be put through ERAS filter of program, can apply to as many programs as can afford. Not true of SOAP.
2) NRMP website explains how algorithm they use for creating match between your rank preference list and that of programs gives some small priority to your preference. This is not the case at all for SOAP. You apply to programs and programs reject or extend an offer. That's it. You exert less control and are less likely to get what you want from SOAP. Read it. (irks my tater how many students don't bother to read or understand how the match & algorithm actually works).
3) Competition fiercer for slots compared to main match.
Last year for IM I believe only ~120 spots for all of IM were available for the first round of SOAP. Many many more applicants than that were SOAPing. Programs may get hundreds of apps for one empty slot. Some applicants will get multiple offers and some applicants will get shut out and totally fail. How this is different than the main match is related to numbers (the start of the match is a more open playing field, once at the SOAP process severe bottleneck has occurred, etc)
4) Quality of spots most likely to end up in SOAP is poor.
There are flukes where Harvard doesn't fill. Many of the vacancies are at the sort of program you indicate you are tempted to leave off your rank list, only at least by interviewing and ranking such a place in the regular process you know they are interested in you and you have a chance to see the place, in the SOAP scenario you will not have either small advantage.
5) More of a sight unseen quality to getting a SOAP position as above.

So that is why ranking and matching to a less desirable program still beats trying to match via SOAP. This is also why SOAP is not going to make your prospects any better than they are now, it is literally damage control not a chance at the jackpot no matter what "soaped into Stanford" stories you may have heard.

Below here I'm trying to address what stats can't. Why would someone with a short list and is at risk of not matching at all still choose to forego listing a program entirely despite all of the above? Isn't ANY residency spot better than none and being a second cycle ERAS applicant?

A rare instance where you should NOT rank a program &
embrace the risk of being the pariah that a never matched ERAS re-applicant is, is for the following :
unacceptable level of risk to your career in taking the position, programs you are not convinced you can complete intern year. Clinical med career suicide almost always.

Somewhere you thought was malignant & miserable to point of permanently damaged/ended careers:
leading to resignation, dismissal, significant issue with medical board/licensing, poor supervision leading to significant med mal etc, self harm/serious health decline, the sort of PD that makes a point of trying to ruin careers if a resident doesn't work out (resigns for medical reasons, wants to change specialties, legit things to NOT ruin a lost resident's career over but happen despite best intentions at times). Family and wrecked marriages might be a factor but depends on your priorities. I would you argue you are better off never matching at all to such a place if the risk of the above is high enough. You don't figure the above out by stats so much, which is why you go on interviews and stalk SDN to create a gut feel.

You should say no to potentially matching to such programs. They do exist. One man's paradise residency can be another man's noose.

If you left such programs off your list and didn't match as a result, you would have a gap year, but no grave that you have dug by poor performance (regardless if it's your own issue or more a product of the program's environment), no evil PD over your shoulder, no decrease in your Medicare funding dollar years, you are basically an unknown entity with the same number of years post-grad only none of the baggage that going to a program and it NOT working out can do. No data is better than bad data in this case.

I go into this because I want you to understand what needs to be at stake before you consider leaving off programs and any action that could lead to SOAP or second round ERAS. Students are told to match at all costs but they are also told not to rank programs they don't really want to go to, but it wasn't until I read through SDN for hours and hours over the years and back from my ROL deadline that I put together from what I read here and my own sense of being highly risk averse that I was able to come up with my own answer which I now give you for what your threshold to take a pass on a program should be, and when you should risk SOAP or having to do ERAS a second time. YMMV.

TL, DR:
Rank. Don't soap. Match at all costs or else risk of serious career harm or death is high.
Caveat is if you think the program itself would lead to career death defeating the purpose of matching to begin with. You are better off as a never-matched pariah than a matched-and-washed-out pariah in a second ERAS cycle if things go really south. Otherwise don't leave programs off your rank list as a general rule any position is better than none.


EDIT: heavily edited based on @gutonc 's kind post that it didn't make sense... sorry working to improve.

 

[gutonc]

Check with someone else who knows more here, but I wouldn't use statistics to work that out.

The stats on SOAPing are not good, SOAP is to be avoided at all costs unless you really feel going unmatched, un-SOAPed, having a year off, and going through the whole ERAS & interview process a second time is preferable to program # 11 and it is a risk you are willing to take, people have chosen to leave a program off the list and accept the above and try to SOAP to something they like better, but read through the post history of the last SOAP cycle. Sounded horrifically brutal.

This up here^...good advice.

As long as you accept what may happen not ranking a program, how you have even less control, chances, prospects in SOAP (there was I think only ~120 spots open last year, mostly in NY programs so not high on totem pole, intense competition for those spots, the algorithm give the program rank list higher priority unlike with the match where it is the applicant's list), and that you may end up with a gap year, if you find that more palatable than sad sack program #11, sure.

Last note, yes, it can be safer not to go to a malignant program where you will fail get washed out and go through ERAS a second time.
A failed residency is a much worse red flag and the PD can essentially irrevocably ruin your career singlehandedly, so I would forgo a position to be an ERAS unmatched re-applicant if I felt that was the best way to keep the slate clean. You realistically get one bid to complete a residency, so yeah you need it to stick. That said, you will always be most attractive 1st round ERAS, then it goes down with SOAP, then 2nd round ERAS, all this >>>> than a failed position and back to ERAS.

This up here^...I have no idea what is going on.

 

[IMrankhelp13]

Personally, I have no problem going to a community place and may have a better experience at such a program. But unfortunately academic snobbery is very real and fellowship directors prefer residents from known academic programs and look down on community program especially unknown and new community programs which several of my interviews have been at. I've met with several subspecialty faculty members including my home program PD, who basically scoffed at the idea of considering a community program. "only if you don't want to do a competative fellowship" they said.

It's not 'snobbery' to choose applicants coming from rigorous academic programs with long histories over applicants from brand new programs. In case you hadn't noticed, docs are extremely risk averse people. Choosing fellowsis arguably one of the most consequential duties programs have. Not only will faculty hav to work with who they choose over ext three yrs, they will also be apart of the institution's 'brand' for the rest of their careers. Obviously I am not saying all academic residents are better than all residents at new community programs, but in the end people go with what they know. If you wants cards/GI/pulm CC, maybe check your ego at the door and go to a program that has a track record.

 

[socccer4lfe]

Hey guys I know this site is designed more for the elite students but my school doesn't give me much guidance. I go to a DO school with average usmle scores step 1/2. I see everyone on here with perfect scores so I just wanted to see where people with average scores and no research match. I have about 18 md interviews, half university and half community hospitals. I doubt I will be ranked to match at the university programs just purely based on everyone having way better scores, but does that matter? Do I still have a chance, lets say at Robert Wood Johnson or NSLIJ forrest hills? Any insight would be helpful. Thanks for your time.

 

[tantacles]

Hey guys I know this site is designed more for the elite students but my school doesn't give me much guidance. I go to a DO school with average usmle scores step 1/2. I see everyone on here with perfect scores so I just wanted to see where people with average scores and no research match. I have about 18 md interviews, half university and half community hospitals. I doubt I will be ranked to match at the university programs just purely based on everyone having way better scores, but does that matter? Do I still have a chance, lets say at Robert Wood Johnson or NSLIJ forrest hills? Any insight would be helpful. Thanks for your time.

If you have 18 interviews, you're in a very good place. Just do your best. You're very likely to match if you go on all of them.

 

[235009]

Hey guys I know this site is designed more for the elite students but my school doesn't give me much guidance. I go to a DO school with average usmle scores step 1/2. I see everyone on here with perfect scores so I just wanted to see where people with average scores and no research match. I have about 18 md interviews, half university and half community hospitals. I doubt I will be ranked to match at the university programs just purely based on everyone having way better scores, but does that matter? Do I still have a chance, lets say at Robert Wood Johnson or NSLIJ forrest hills? Any insight would be helpful. Thanks for your time.

Go on the interviews and rank them as you like them regardless of how good you think your chances are there because that's how the match works.

If you go on 18 interviews you'll match somewhere.

Unfortunately none of the regular posters here have any insight into interviewing as a DO at specific programs. For some reason our DO colleagues do not find it necessary to stick around and give advice (at least on a regular basis) once they match.

 

[AlmadeDr]

As a DO graduate who was in your position last year and interviewed at 11 ACGME programs, I have a few general comments. I cannot speak to your chances at the specific programs you have mentioned because they were not places that I interviewed or applied.

You have already passed the barrier of being granted the interviews. And you have 18 with a good proportion being university programs. Your chances at each individual program will depend on that program's previous experience with DOs. Some are very open and will take whoever they feel is best and some of them seem to hold open a few spots for DOs each year and take only the most impressive ones.

Regardless, you've done the tough work of getting the interview and scheduling it. The only 2 things you still have remaining within your control are how you present yourself at interview and how you make your rank list. Do these 2 things to the best of your ability and true to your preferences and you'll be okay

I had 5 university interviews, decided to rank them at the top of my list and ended up at my 6th ranked program, ie my first-choice community program, although at a ”large academic " community hospital. And I actually really love it and am very glad that I am here. My experience might seem to suggest a poor chance for DOs at university hospitals, but all 5 of the places I interviewed at were more of the type where they take a few very special DOs per year and the number never really seems to change. Your university programs may very well be of the other variety.

Good luck with your interviews and enjoy this crazy time of year!

 

[HatGuy]

Hey guys I posted here earlier this cycle. I'm sort of getting worried at this point. I haven't had much love from any of the Midwest and south programs I applied to, including SLU, KU, UMKC, Rush, UIC, UTH, UTSA. I have 7 interviews (4 university) so not bad but I expected to hear from more by now. DO student, USMLE step 1/2 232/244, class rank is top quartile and I'm in SSP (DO equivalent of AOA), 1 poster pub and presentation, great LOR's (I think), A's in medicine and Sub-I, going to add an LOR from sub-I bc I figure it can't hurt at this point.

Is IM that much more competitive this year? Bc my friends who applied last year with lower stats seemed to hear back from some of these same programs with lower stats

 

[Crayola227]

You should've added plenty of quality community programs and DO friendly programs to the list.

Not everyone even with great stats etc etc from an academic institution is going to get to go to a uni program. Period. You have to play the match safe given the stakes of not getting enough interviews or not matching.

This advice may not be all that helpful to you in your current shoes, but it's just advice I'm giving all involved in trying to match safely.

 

[HatGuy]

You should've added plenty of quality community programs and DO friendly programs to the list.

Not everyone even with great stats etc etc from an academic institution is going to get to go to a uni program. Period. You have to play the match safe given the stakes of not getting enough interviews or not matching.

This advice may not be all that helpful to you in your current shoes, but it's just advice I'm giving all involved in trying to match safely.

I understand that and I did it this way bc I'm not too worried as I'm pretty sure I have a good chance at my safeties including my home institution. I just was trying to figure out whether it was my stats and application and if I needed to search for a red flag or if it's just that IM has gotten that much more competitive this year.

 

[medstudent7860]

I understand that and I did it this way bc I'm not too worried as I'm pretty sure I have a good chance at my safeties including my home institution. I just was trying to figure out whether it was my stats and application and if I needed to search for a red flag or if it's just that IM has gotten that much more competitive this year.

It's my opinion that it has gotten more competitive this year, for whatever reason. But like I said, this is my opinion, so I'm not sure if it's true. Anyone else have any input?

 

[gutonc]

It's my opinion that it has gotten more competitive this year, for whatever reason. But like I said, this is my opinion, so I'm not sure if it's true. Anyone else have any input?

Yes. It's definitely your opinion.

 

[tylenol3]

.

 

[Animalcules]

SUPER late WAMC! Long time lurker, recently joined and looking for input on chances of matching. Thanks in advance.

US-citizen IMG at a caribbean school looking for a solid IM program that'll get me to fellowship.

- Med school: Ross University
- Step 1: 246
- Step 2 CK: 255
- Step 2 CS: Pass first attempt
- Class rank: we aren't given one, but 3.86 gpa, I would argue top 10% for sure
- Clinical's: Two years at ACGME accredited hospitals in the US, got A;s throughout, great evals for my MSPE
- LORs - I have 4, should be strong
- Research: Two poster presentations but nothing substantial
- Volunteer: Lots of non-profit work in a third world country, tutoring and stuff too

I don't really have much guidance on my shot for decent (and reachable for Carib students) IM programs that are university based (or affiliated) with good fellowship placement:

So hit me with it.

My top 20(ish) programs:

CA - LAC+USC, Cedars Sinai
CT: UConn, Yale-New Haven
AZ: Mayo AZ, Univ or Arizona
NJ: Rutgers RWJ, Rutgers NJMS/Newark
NY: SLR, Downstate, BI, Lenox Hill, Montefiore AE
PA: Drexel, Temple, UPMC
DC: Georgetown, GWash U
NH: Dartmouth
MA: UMass, Tufts

Thanks in advance!!

I don't get it. Are you applying this cycle and these are your interviews? If so, you might match to any of them. Or are you trying to figure out where to apply next year?

 

[tylenol3]

I don't get it. Are you applying this cycle and these are your interviews? If so, you might match to any of them. Or are you trying to figure out where to apply next year?

Applying next year and figured I'd get a head start on where to apply/whether they'd interview me/etc. I know it isn't the right forum but hey, thought I'd give it a shot! (since there isn't a WAMC for next year yet)

 

[235009]

SUPER late WAMC! Long time lurker, recently joined and looking for input on chances of matching. Thanks in advance.

US-citizen IMG at a caribbean school looking for a solid IM program that'll get me to fellowship.

- Med school: Ross University
- Step 1: 246
- Step 2 CK: 255
- Step 2 CS: Pass first attempt
- Class rank: we aren't given one, but 3.86 gpa, I would argue top 10% for sure
- Clinical's: Two years at ACGME accredited hospitals in the US, got A;s throughout, great evals for my MSPE
- LORs - I have 4, should be strong
- Research: Two poster presentations but nothing substantial
- Volunteer: Lots of non-profit work in a third world country, tutoring and stuff too

I don't really have much guidance on my shot for decent (and reachable for Carib students) IM programs that are university based (or affiliated) with good fellowship placement:

So hit me with it.

My top 20(ish) programs:

CA - LAC+USC, Cedars Sinai
CT: UConn, Yale-New Haven
AZ: Mayo AZ, Univ or Arizona
NJ: Rutgers RWJ, Rutgers NJMS/Newark
NY: SLR, Downstate, BI, Lenox Hill, Montefiore AE
PA: Drexel, Temple, UPMC
DC: Georgetown, GWash U
NH: Dartmouth
MA: UMass, Tufts

Thanks in advance!!

You're almost certainly wasting your money with Tufts, UPMC, Monte, Yale. The majority of the remainder are reasonable reaches and you have a good chance at some. I hope you're planning on adding 50+ community and low-tier academic programs in less desirable locations to the places you listed here.

 

[Animalcules]

Applying next year and figured I'd get a head start on where to apply/whether they'd interview me/etc. I know it isn't the right forum but hey, thought I'd give it a shot! (since there isn't a WAMC for next year yet)

Got it, thanks for clarifying. I was confused by the "very late WAMC" comment. I'll PM you.

 

[Animalcules]

You're almost certainly wasting your money with Tufts, UPMC, Monte, Yale. The majority of the remainder are reasonable reaches and you have a good chance at some. I hope you're planning on adding 50+ community and low-tier academic programs in less desirable locations to the places you listed here.

I would disagree with this. Similar app, IMG, more research. Got invites from some top 4 places, most of mine are top 30, whatever this means. Tylenol has a decent shot at UPMC IST, Mayo, Tufts. No guarantees, maybe I am misjudging the situation, but my recent experience.

 

[235009]

I would disagree with this. Similar app, IMG, more research. Got invites from some top 4 places, most of mine are top 30, whatever this means. Tylenol has a decent shot at UPMC IST, Mayo, Tufts. No guarantees, maybe I am misjudging the situation, but my recent experience.

Ok. Gotta defer to you. I'm just taking a guess as I have little info about how IMGs fare. If you're at sgu I think that makes a difference. I encourage you to keep contributing after you match.

 

[tylenol3]

I would disagree with this. Similar app, IMG, more research. Got invites from some top 4 places, most of mine are top 30, whatever this means. Tylenol has a decent shot at UPMC IST, Mayo, Tufts. No guarantees, maybe I am misjudging the situation, but my recent experience.

Thats pretty encouraging! My school is kind of clueless as to what to do with students like me with pretty strong scores and ambition (lol..?) so I'm deferring to your advice.

I'm planning on tossing a few more top(ish) programs in the mix because the hell not. Might as well burn some extra money after four years of this right? 🙂

 

[tylenol3]

Got it, thanks for clarifying. I was confused by the "very late WAMC" comment. I'll PM you.

Sounds good! cheers

 

[tylenol3]

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[TAVR2sday]

I'm not aware of any traditional Yale IM residents from the last few years from Ross or any Caribbean schools. Perhaps the Yale primary care program?

 

[tylenol3]

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[tryptophan321]

The reason I've included Yale is because Ross currently has a resident there in IM - figured if they've taken one of us before they might consider again.

SGU has a stronger match list than Ross. Of the Caribbean 4 major schools it is definitely the one that's most recognizable. Followed by Ross, and then AUC, and Saba (basically the only 4 that are accredited in all 50 US states). Just a little info on carib IMG's for ya!

But you're right - I have back up programs to these. This list is comprised of my top picks only, realistic reach programs for us carib-US-citizen-IMGs.

As an AMG with slightly better stats that was placed on the waitlist at Yale, I can tell you it will be a pretty far reach. UPMC probably also a reach. Tufts and Monte I think are reasonable to shoot for.

 

[whoknows2012]

I think he might've been prelim for radiology. We just had another guy interview there this year though. Ill just toss my hat into the mix for ****s and giggles.[/QUOTE

As an AMG with slightly better stats that was placed on the waitlist at Yale, I can tell you it will be a pretty far reach. UPMC probably also a reach. Tufts and Monte I think are reasonable to shoot for.

its reasonable to apply to monte but I can tell you there have been no Carib grads in the categorical or pc/sm programs for at least 4 years. Not sure how many (if any) are interviewed.

 

[tylenol3]

its reasonable to apply to monte but I can tell you there have been no Carib grads in the categorical or pc/sm programs for at least 4 years. Not sure how many (if any) are interviewed.

Any thoughts of Tufts, USC+LAC, Rutgers RWJ, Georgetown??

 

[tylenol3]

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[whoknows2012]

Georgetown definitely. And it's a very solid program. I have some med school friends that went there for IM and they were all solid students. They just matched for fellowship and they did excellently. RWJ as well you should be competitive at and I suppose there's a good shot at an interview. Not sure about the others. I don't think it hurts to apply to all programs though who knows what will happen. Hope this helps!

 

[tryptophan321]

Any thoughts of Tufts, USC+LAC, Rutgers RWJ, Georgetown??

Those are all worth applying to. USC is known to give out a ton of interviews but looks like their classes are largely AMGs. Tufts draws competitive applicants due to location but are also IMG friendly. Not that familiar with the other programs specifically but I don't think they're highly competitive.

 

[tylenol3]

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[tryptophan321]

Sounds good.

And yeah I've talked to a USC former chief resident who told me that in the last 4-5 years they've really cut down on their IMG friendliness.

Are most of these places pretty similar in terms reputation, fellowship placement, research output, procedures, and quality of education?

(Location doesn't really matter to me, these are all great cities).

Yale and UPMC are in a different league than the others. Temple, Tufts, Dartmouth and Monte I would consider similar. The rest below that with fewer fellowship options.

 

[tylenol3]

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[IMreshopeful]

You wouldn't say that fellowship options coming out programs like Georgetown, GWU, USC, UConn, Rutgers are relatively comparable?

From the matches they've listed on their websites it seems that in terms of numbers, residents from most of these programs do quite well too (maybe to not as prestigious programs but %'ge of those landing fellowships spots seems similar). Thoughts?

Just to clarify, Rutgers has two programs - RWJMS and NJMS, which are separate medical schools and residencies. They're very different from each other. NJMS is much more DO and IMG friendly than RWJ but both have a reasonable fellowship match (admittedly RWJ has a better academic reputation at least by word of mouth). Gtown and GWU are both okay programs clinically but with reasonably good fellowship matches; GWU tends to be more IMG or Caribbean friendly of the two. I'm sure they each have their own strengths as well (Georgetown to my recollection does particularly well with the oncology match).

Ultimately it's what you feel you want. If your intent is to become chief of cardiology at the Brigham and publish 1000 papers, then you are fighting an uphill battle to try and go to a top residency and subsequently a top fellowship. If you want to go into practice in whatever fellowship specialty and see patients, then these programs will help you out just fine getting you to that goal.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Yale and UPMC are in a different league than the others. Temple, Tufts, Dartmouth and Monte I would consider similar. The rest below that with fewer fellowship options.

Those programs (as I know residents in nearly all of them save for UConn) all match residents very well into their specialties of choice.

 

[tylenol3]

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[gutonc]

Final question: Any comments on the regional bias in regards to what the student is putting down as the permanent address in ERAS? I've heard that NJ/PA/Mass are three tough states for those not from the northeast. And comparably so California favors their own. I have the opportunity to place either an east or west coast address as my permanent. Thoughts on whether I should risk some programs on the east coast for the slim chance of a solid CA slot, or just forgo the CA residencies and stick to east coast. (Location isn't important, just looking at maximizing my chances for a solid program).

Appreciate all the helps guys!

I honestly didn't experience that regional bias at all when I applied (although I'm not a Carib grad). I got interviews from LA to Boston, Seattle to Raleigh/Durham (which was as far south as I applied), Minneapolis to St. Louis, with an NYC address and a "home" on the West Coast.

TL;DR...I think you should use the permanent address that will get you mail in a timely fashion as needed.

 

[asdfTT123]

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