Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[medstudent2088]

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Hey guys, just wanted to gauge which programs are my target schools and realistic shot at so any help/advice would be great!

4th year DO student
Step 1: 247
Step 2: 250-255
COMLEX 1: 657
COMLEX 2: pending
3rd year: all P's only (we don't do HP, can only H if u honored shelf exam, which i didn't)
Extracurriculars: good amount of consistent volunteer experiences thru 1st/2nd year
Research: none
LOR: 3 solid

Would like to go to west coast CA and AZ (grew up in CA) and will put CA address and express my interest. My goal is a mid-tier university program/solid community program that would keep fellowship options open.

West: UCI, UC Davis, USC, Scripps Mercy, Scripps Green, UCLA Harbor, UCLA Olive View, U of Arizona Phoenix, U of Arizona Tucson, U of Arizona South, Mayo AZ, White Memorial, Cedars Sinai, Kaiser Oakland, Kaiser LA, Oregon H&S, Santa Clara Valley Medical Center, Arrowhead Regional, UWashington

Rest: UT Houston, UT San Antonio, UT Austin, UIC, KU, Rush, Loyola, Cleveland Clinic, Case Western, UMKC, Colorado, Miami

How competitive am I for these IM programs? This is not my full list (and I know some are reaches), will apply to 50-60 bc DO student, but these are the ones at the top of my list. Any to add? Thanks!

Bump - any thoughts?

 

[dpodd1010]

Ok here are my stats:

Green Card IMG from China, with MD from Beijing
graduated in 2013, but received Masters in United States
Step 1: 224
Step 2: 248
Step 2 CS: waiting for results
Observership cardio critical care in New England
Observership Interventional Cardiology
Observership Family Medicine

I have 3 solid letters of recommendation and a couple of connections to programs through the doctors recommending me.

I am applying very broadly to IM and Family.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

 

[Jinxapotato]

Ok here are my stats:

Green Card IMG from China, with MD from Beijing
graduated in 2013, but received Masters in United States
Step 1: 224
Step 2: 248
Step 2 CS: waiting for results
Observership cardio critical care in New England
Observership Interventional Cardiology
Observership Family Medicine

I have 3 solid letters of recommendation and a couple of connections to programs through the doctors recommending me.

I am applying very broadly to IM and Family.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

I personally know several IMGs from China, they often have 250+ Step 1 and yet they still match to community programs...My guess is that you'll have to focus on applying to community programs as well...Granted, they don't have the green card, but for community programs they don't really care about visa anyway.

 

[dpodd1010]

I personally know several IMGs from China, they often have 250+ Step 1 and yet they still match to community programs...My guess is that you'll have to focus on applying to community programs as well...Granted, they don't have the green card, but for community programs they don't really care about visa anyway.

I'm totally fine with community programs!

 

[nontrad78]

What are the recommendations for DOs taking Step 2? Does having something north of 220, as low as that is, helpful?

 

[whoknows2012]

What are the recommendations for DOs taking Step 2? Does having something north of 220, as low as that is, helpful?

Get as high as you can? It can already be an uphill battle as far as matching into an academic program (if those are your wishes) but even if matching to just a desirable program are your wishes having something >240 would be ideal. Why did you pick 220? Average is 235-240?

 

[nontrad78]

Get as high as you can? It can already be an uphill battle as far as matching into an academic program (if those are your wishes) but even if matching to just a desirable program are your wishes having something >240 would be ideal. Why did you pick 220? Average is 235-240?

I’d love higher, but my first UWSA was a 228, so I’m just looking at how helpful/harmful it could be if I don’t move up much when I take it in a couple of weeks.

 

[whoknows2012]

I’d love higher, but my first UWSA was a 228, so I’m just looking at how helpful/harmful it could be if I don’t move up much when I take it in a couple of weeks.

Sorry I guess my question was why would you think a below average score would be helpful? If your question is how harmful it will be well it depends on your aspirations and what you got on step 1

 

[nontrad78]

Sorry I guess my question was why would you think a below average score would be helpful? If your question is how harmful it will be well it depends on your aspirations and what you got on step 1

My aspirations are for a low tier university program in Texas. I’ll be plenty happy if things don’t go that way and I end up at a community program in the state. I also have a below average Step I score (214). If I’m unable to score above a 230 on the next UWSA, I’ll probably forego taking step 2. If I score above, I’m considering pulling the trigger. For the programs I’m interested in, I think a 230 could help. I’m just not sure how much a 220-230 hurts, when weighing benefits and costs.

 

[whoknows2012]

My aspirations are for a low tier university program in Texas. I’ll be plenty happy if things don’t go that way and I end up at a community program in the state. I also have a below average Step I score (214). If I’m unable to score above a 230 on the next UWSA, I’ll probably forego taking step 2. If I score above, I’m considering pulling the trigger. For the programs I’m interested in, I think a 230 could help. I’m just not sure how much a 220-230 hurts, when weighing benefits and costs.

I see what you’re saying now. I think you’re in a tough position. If I were you, with a 214 on step 1 i’d Almost definitely take step 2 and bust your butt to get >230 bc if not it looks equally bad if not worse. If you’re att 228 already some intense studying for a couple wks can get you that >230. Ultimately though I’d still aim for >240, as 230 itself is I impressive given the relatively high average score

 

[nontrad78]

I see what you’re saying now. I think you’re in a tough position. If I were you, with a 214 on step 1 i’d Almost definitely take step 2 and bust your butt to get >230 bc if not it looks equally bad if not worse. If you’re att 228 already some intense studying for a couple wks can get you that >230. Ultimately though I’d still aim for >240, as 230 itself is I impressive given the relatively high average score

I feel like there’s more up side than down side. If it doesn’t go too well, my safeties list doesn’t exactly change. I may lose what chance I had at a handful of uni programs without having step 2. We’ll see. I’ll bust it the next few weeks and see what uwsa2 gives me.

 

[supersloth]

I'm an M4 at a top tier school in the Midwest planning on applying to IM this fall. Step 1 and 2 are in the 250s. A couple of papers (but no first authors), and a few posters/presentations at national conferences. However, unfortunately, as I tend to be quieter/less assertive in group settings, my clinical grades suffered...despite my best efforts to improve throughout the year. All passes (including Medicine) except 1 High Pass in Neuro. Thoughts on where I should look to apply? No regional preferences.

 

[whoknows2012]

I feel like there’s more up side than down side. If it doesn’t go too well, my safeties list doesn’t exactly change. I may lose what chance I had at a handful of uni programs without having step 2. We’ll see. I’ll bust it the next few weeks and see what uwsa2 gives me.

We’re in agreement I think you need to take step 2 no matter what but I was suggesting you aim for better than 230

 

[885815]

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[gig123]

How much do the top tier programs care about improvement from Step 1 to Step 2? I scored a 238 on step 1 and was able to jump to 264 on CK. The other aspects of my application are competitive (decent research with 2-3 accepted publications by application submission + couple national conference posters, 6/7 core rotation honors including IM, IM subi honors, decent ECs/volunteer hours) and I do go to a US News Top 20 school. However, I realize the average step 1 at the top tier programs is crazy these days so I'm wondering what are my chances to land an interview at programs like Brigham/Penn/Columbia. Interested in academic Heme onc down the road and have some personal ties to East Coast. Wondering if my step 1 score will screen me out automatically at those type of programs or whether its a reasonable shot. Thanks for your help guys!

 

[gutonc]

How much do the top tier programs care about improvement from Step 1 to Step 2? I scored a 238 on step 1 and was able to jump to 264 on CK. The other aspects of my application are competitive (decent research with 2-3 accepted publications by application submission + couple national conference posters, 6/7 core rotation honors including IM, IM subi honors, decent ECs/volunteer hours) and I do go to a US News Top 20 school. However, I realize the average step 1 at the top tier programs is crazy these days so I'm wondering what are my chances to land an interview at programs like Brigham/Penn/Columbia. Interested in academic Heme onc down the road and have some personal ties to East Coast. Wondering if my step 1 score will screen me out automatically at those type of programs or whether its a reasonable shot. Thanks for your help guys!

You'll make the Step cuts at most of those places, especially with the solid bump in scores. The rest is hard to say.

 

[xBODOMx]

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[MyTachyBradyHeart]

I'm an M4 at a top tier school in the Midwest planning on applying to IM this fall. Step 1 and 2 are in the 250s. A couple of papers (but no first authors), and a few posters/presentations at national conferences. However, unfortunately, as I tend to be quieter/less assertive in group settings, my clinical grades suffered...despite my best efforts to improve throughout the year. All passes (including Medicine) except 1 High Pass in Neuro. Thoughts on where I should look to apply? No regional preferences.

If by top-tier you mean Northwestern/Michigan/WashU etc, then you have a good chance at matching into a upper mid tier program if you tend to be better in 1-on-1 situations. The more important question will be whether your letter writers can vouch for your clinical judgment, since your standardized test scores are good but clerkship grades were only ok (is it because of your personality, or is it because you are better at answering test questions rather than diagnosing the patient in front of you?). In terms of applications, would advise you to apply broadly across the country with focus on upper mid tier programs and and pick a number of top tier programs in a region of your choice.

Looking to do residency back in CA both for weather and family reasons (not only do I have a social support system there, but I also need to be a source of support for my parent who is relatively newly divorced, suffers from medical and mental conditions etc.)
I'm considering sub-specializing possibly in cardiology but I'm still exploring the many fields of IM because I'm still unsure. My main goal is to go back to CA but I'm open to applying to programs outside CA.

CA native at an MD school in the Northeast
Med school rank: not ranked yet as it's relatively new
USMLE Step 1: 240s
USMLE Step 2: mid-220s
USMLE CS: TBD (just took it, results come out Oct/Nov)
Class rank: TBD but let's pretend it's 4th quartile
AOA: none, school doesn't have it (yet at least)
Honors: H (Psych), HP (Peds, IM Sub-I, ICU), P (all other third year rotations and EM). Cardiology elective TBD (only pass/fail)
Research: no official publications atm
-ongoing capstone project I've been working on for 3+ years, planning on submitting manuscript for publication
-abstract presentation at national ACP (abstract published on webpage)
-premed: stem cell research project during senior year of college, paid research for anemia research during one summer in college
ECs: many
-clinical skills preceptor for junior med students
-co-founder and former president of an interest group
-many volunteer activities (hospice, admissions interviewer, student-run free clinic)
-used to work as a pharmacy technician for a couple of years before med school
-honors and awards: $20,000 community service scholarship at the med school, full-tuition scholarship at college
LORs: one from IM attending (very good), one from sub-I attending (unsure - he said he was happy to write one for me but I know he has very high standards), one from primary care preceptor, two pending (one from cardiology attending and one from research mentor)

My concerns:
-Big drop from Step 1 to Step 2. Not sure what happened as I was scoring average 230s-240s on the Step 2 practice tests.
-P in IM, only HP in sub-I. I reached out to the clerkship director and emailed reasons why I think I deserved Honors (worked well with team, gave detail-oriented and prepared presentations, presented papers), but my sub-I attending has high standards and was basically the reason why I only got HP. The clerkship director said that many students get HP and still match in CA. I'm still bitter about it because my other classmate also did their sub-I at the same site and same time, but got honors and he had one different attending who is much nicer. I don't think our clinical abilities are that different.
-Some of my evals mentioned that I appear apprehensive at first (but later warmed up), one said I need self confidence and need more involvement, one psych attending said that I am shy. I worry that there are some discrepancies because other evals mentioned that I am personable, diligent, professional, respectable, and enthusiastic. What do experienced readers of MSPEs/evals think about this?

I have many aways in CA planned (a couple of UCs, a few community programs). I know it's not necessary for IM, but I know that interviews are guaranteed at some, and I think I'm an affable person and work well with others. I just need to prepare for the medical knowledge I'll be tested on during rotations.

I plan to apply to almost all CA programs and I'm open to any programs outside CA if they have a good reputation for fellowships etc.!

You should match in CA, although don't hold your breath for UCSF/Stanford/UCLA/UCSD/Washington.

DO Student
Step 1: 235
Step 2: 265
Level1: >675
Level2: >850
PE: Pass. First attempt.
Rank: 10-20/160-170s

Third year: All "A"s. 99th percentile on all shelves but not included in MSPE :/

Research: two clinical experiences in undergrad none for medical school.

LOR: 2 very good FM. 1 decentish CCM. 1 likely generic chair IM.

Not doing any aways.

From the West but school in the Southeast.

No restrictions on geography, I'll go anywhere, but main goal is eventually CCM. Pure CCM preferred over combined. But would still be happy as hospitalist if I can't match CCM.

I don't care for giant cities. Would actually prefer smaller places but still want good training.

I don't have the slightest clue where to apply since I have a weaker step one, no real research, non great IM letters.

First of all, I commend you for having the attitude of "I'll be happy as hospitalist if I can't match into [insert specialty]" because that is what people should think going into IM.

To answer your question, you should plan on applying broadly, to 50+ places. You've identified your weaknesses as an applicant (DO, no research, no great letters) and need to focus on low tier academic programs and community programs. Research where students from your school have matched recently and get a sense of what your targets should be. I wouldn't even think about pure CCM rather than combined pulm/CC as you will need to match to IM first so can't be too picky.

 

[xBODOMx]

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[MyTachyBradyHeart]

You really think I'll have to apply majority of community with 235/265?

I never said a majority of community programs. You should match at an academic institution, but my suggestion is you apply broadly and target appropriately. Your scores are ok, but that by itself won't overcome the DO bias and the otherwise so-so application. My suggestion is: 5-10 "reach" upper mid-tier programs (i.e. Monte, etc) who will take DOs, 20-40 "target" mid tier programs (i.e. Georgetown, CCF, etc), and another 20+ "safety" low tier/community programs. And depending on your DO school's track record, more "safety" programs should be added on.

You can always cancel interviews if you find that everyone wants you. That's better than not having enough interviews because you thought more highly of your application than what it turned out to be.

 

[beingandtime]

Hi, I'm beginning my third year at a state MD school. I scored a 207 on the STEP 1. I'm happy to pass, but I was really beat down by the score that I received. I was expecting something in the Mid 220's per my NBME's.

I have decent extracurriculars, leadership experiences, prior employment experiences, and 2 publication by the time I apply.

I would love to be in the NYC (or surrounding area), Boston, New England, Minneapolis, Madison, or Chicago areas.
What are my chances at Low-tier academic programs and non-sweatshop community programs in the Northeast or the Midwest?

My desire is to stop after IM, and not fellowship.

Any specific program recommendations would be extremely helpful as well. Thank you.

 

[gatewasani]

You'll be a good candidate for community programs because you are a USMD
University programs, depending on the tier will be tougher but still achievable.
A strong step 2 score and strong sub-I performance and your preferred institution would go a long way.

Don't fret too much, you'll be fine.

Also a lot of community programs are actually nicer to be at than university programs, more perks, lower stress environments (maybe not in NY, i'm not sure) the downside is less research available, less ppl interested in research, less in house fellowships, and definitely harder to match fellowship especially (GI, cards etc...) If you're fairly certain you don't want fellowship, you can get excellent training at a strong community program, that maybe doesn't have ICU fellows for example and relies more on its residents, thus more autonomy and opportunity for learning/procedures and whatnot.

 

[rokshana]

Hi, I'm beginning my third year at a state MD school. I scored a 207 on the STEP 1. I'm happy to pass, but I was really beat down by the score that I received. I was expecting something in the Mid 220's per my NBME's.

I have decent extracurriculars, leadership experiences, prior employment experiences, and 2 publication by the time I apply.

I would love to be in the NYC (or surrounding area), Boston, New England, Minneapolis, Madison, or Chicago areas.
What are my chances at Low-tier academic programs and non-sweatshop community programs in the Northeast or the Midwest?

My desire is to stop after IM, and not fellowship.

Any specific program recommendations would be extremely helpful as well. Thank you.

get a better CK score and do extremely well on your 3rd year rotations ...you will have a good chance if you apply broadly.

 

[lulu09]

Hi, I'm beginning my third year at a state MD school. I scored a 207 on the STEP 1. I'm happy to pass, but I was really beat down by the score that I received. I was expecting something in the Mid 220's per my NBME's.

I have decent extracurriculars, leadership experiences, prior employment experiences, and 2 publication by the time I apply.

I would love to be in the NYC (or surrounding area), Boston, New England, Minneapolis, Madison, or Chicago areas.
What are my chances at Low-tier academic programs and non-sweatshop community programs in the Northeast or the Midwest?

My desire is to stop after IM, and not fellowship.

Any specific program recommendations would be extremely helpful as well. Thank you.

Hey, I was in almost the same position as you a few years ago and freaking out. My step 1 was essentially the same as yours. I just graduated from a mid-tier academic residency program, so it's totally doable, but you'll have to do the following things:

1) take CK early, and kill it (aim for at least 30 point increase, 40-50 even better)
2) try to honor your medicine clerkship
3) you absolutely have to do your medicine sub-i early, and try to get a letter from your sub-i attending by the time of applications.

If you do all of the above, these are some specific feasible programs:

NYC - almost all places other than the "top 4" - unfortunately, you are mostly out of running for the Manhattan top 4, but the other academics (Northwell, RWJ, Montefiore, Downstate, Stony Brook (ok, NYC might be a stretch lol)) would still love to have you. You don't need to dip below to community programs in NYC.

Boston - coin toss - Tufts and BU maybe, but my experience was they were still very scores-driven. Mount Auburn (Harvard's "community program") yes. No chance at Harvard programs.

Chicago - Rush, Loyola, and UIC. Again, you don't need to dip into the community programs, but U Chicago and Northwestern won't look at your application.

I know nothing about the Midwest outside of Chicago as I didn't apply there.

The difficulty with a low Step 1 is that your app gets filtered out at the elite ultra-competitive programs, so people don't really review your application in depth essentially. However, if you have a strong supporting application, then the lower academics who actually read your application would still invite you for interviews. My experience was that the only place in the country where you would need to dip into community programs with this Step 1 is California. If you were going on to fellowship, I would still say that there is an edge to an academic program, regardless of tier, and you should aim for that. However, if you are planning on stopping after residency, then it doesn't matter as much. I would personally then balance the local reputation with the amount of scut they have you do. There are some really terrible community programs in NYC, so be careful.

 

[whoknows2012]

Hey, I was in almost the same position as you a few years ago and freaking out. My step 1 was essentially the same as yours. I just graduated from a mid-tier academic residency program, so it's totally doable, but you'll have to do the following things:

1) take CK early, and kill it (aim for at least 30 point increase, 40-50 even better)
2) try to honor your medicine clerkship
3) you absolutely have to do your medicine sub-i early, and try to get a letter from your sub-i attending by the time of applications.

If you do all of the above, these are some specific feasible programs:

NYC - almost all places other than the "top 4" - unfortunately, you are mostly out of running for the Manhattan top 4, but the other academics (Northwell, RWJ, Montefiore, Downstate, Stony Brook (ok, NYC might be a stretch lol)) would still love to have you. You don't need to dip below to community programs in NYC.

Boston - coin toss - Tufts and BU maybe, but my experience was they were still very scores-driven. Mount Auburn (Harvard's "community program") yes. No chance at Harvard programs.

Chicago - Rush, Loyola, and UIC. Again, you don't need to dip into the community programs, but U Chicago and Northwestern won't look at your application.

I know nothing about the Midwest outside of Chicago as I didn't apply there.

The difficulty with a low Step 1 is that your app gets filtered out at the elite ultra-competitive programs, so people don't really review your application in depth essentially. However, if you have a strong supporting application, then the lower academics who actually read your application would still invite you for interviews. My experience was that the only place in the country where you would need to dip into community programs with this Step 1 is California. If you were going on to fellowship, I would still say that there is an edge to an academic program, regardless of tier, and you should aim for that. However, if you are planning on stopping after residency, then it doesn't matter as much. I would personally then balance the local reputation with the amount of scut they have you do. There are some really terrible community programs in NYC, so be careful.

A bit disingenuous to say “nyc programs outside top 4 would love to have him/her.” I don’t think that’s good advice. Also I’d be surprised if they got an interview at BU. Tufts maybe but also doubtful. Low tier academic absolutely is within reach and possibly a mid tier academic in a less desirable area. Apply broadly knock step 2 out of the park

 

[885815]

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[Happycc]

Hello guys, I need some advices please, if you could kindly share your opinions, I’d be greatly appreciate it!

1. What are my chances of matching into IM program in New York with my following credentials: step 1: 210 I know 🙁 step 2: 237, IMG graduating Jan 2019, US citizen, no publications

2. Should I still be applying to those programs with a higher step 1 requirement? Some programs require a minimum step 1 of 230 🙁

3. I was also told that many programs apply a score filter where they automatically filter out low step 1 applicants, and my application would definitely get filtered out without reaching the PDs 🙁 is there any way to bypass such filter? If I were to contact the PD regarding this matter, what should I say in the email that could make them take a second look at my application?

Thank you guys!

 

[lulu09]

Above is my app info. Here is a list I made of programs I plan to apply. I am thinking 40 programs. Also, what is the recommended distribution of programs (% reach, target, safety)? Question marks for those that I know I won't get an interview but applying anyway because 1) the Match/NRMP is unpredictable, and 2) this is the only time I'll be applying to residency programs anyway. Open to feedback in terms of which to add, which to remove. Again, goal is to go back to CA, and unsure of whether to pursue fellowship but would like to have the resources available to keep my options open (so academic program would be best).

California
UCSF?
Stanford?
UCLA?
UCSD?
Cedars-Sinai
USC
Harbor-UCLA
UC Davis
Olive View-UCLA
UCSF-Fresno
UC Irvine
Kaiser LA
Scripps Green
Loma Linda
SCVMC
Kaiser Oakland
Kaiser SF
Kaiser Santa Clara
Scripps Mercy
Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital
CPMC
Alameda-Highland
Kern
Huntington Memorial
White Memorial
UC Riverside
St Mary's in SF
St Mary's in Long Beach

Out of state
Mayo Clinic in Arizona
U Arizona Tucson
U Arizona Phoenix
U Arizona South Campus
Maricopa
U Nevada Reno
U Nevada Las Vegas
Oregon State
Legacy Emmanuel
Providence Health - Providence
Providence Health - St Vincent
Virginia Mason
U New Mexico
U Colorado
U Hawaii
Loyola
Rush
U Illinois
Rosalind Franklin - Lovell
Some East Coast programs for the heck of it (Brown? Yale?)

Your step 1 is ok, you're also AMG which is good. Things that will hurt you are your med school reputation, low class rank (I assume you mean last quartile), and the pass in medicine/HP in sub-i. From when I applied to California 3 years ago --

"In-range" -- Fresno, all the Kaisers (I didn't interview at LA, but in the Bay I would say Oakland > SF >> Santa Clara), Loma Linda, Valley, Scripps Mercy, CPMC, Highland, Riverside
In-between -- Olive View, Harbor, Irvine
Reaches - USC, Davis, Cedars, Scripps Green
Very minimal chance - UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, UCSD

The other Cali programs on your list SB Cottage, Kern, Huntington, White, St. Mary's x 2 are FMG/IMG heavy, which means that you can apply to them but I'm not sure if they will necessarily be interested in your application per se. I suppose you can apply and see what happens but they're definitely a tier below the other community programs for AMGs at least.

Also, I think you might be applying to too many community programs out of state. Probably can pick one out of the community programs in Portland and nix Rosalind Franklin in Chicago. Maricopa should be interested in you, Colorado and OHSU difficult, and you'll get anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 between Loyola/Rush/UIC.

If your goal is to stay out west, I would probably not apply to any further east coast programs as you'll likely get something with all these programs you're applying to. Remember that even high end community programs (CPMC, Valley, Cedars) in Cali are better than some low-tier academic programs on the east coast (Drexel, Downstate) so you don't need to go crazy applying everywhere if your goal is to stay on the west coast. You can prob consider applying to your home program and the 2-3 regional programs that your med school has connections to and call it a day. Finally, I would probably do a 60-40 (academic/low-academic plus community) mix.

 

[Mad Jack]

Filters exist for a reason. If you could bypass them by just making contact with the PD, everyone would do so and the PD would be flooded with letters. The only reasonable way to get past a filter is to rotate at a place or have someone that knows you and also knows the PD in question vouch for you.

Your chances in NY are low- it is the second or third most competitive region in the US if you mean NYC, and not much better if you mean the entire state. Your app is, barring some strong ECs/research, not competitive. You can still potentially match IM if you cat a broad net, but don't count on NYC.

As to whether you should apply to programs with filters, it doesn't hurt as some listed cutoffs are incorrect. But most of that money will be wasted, so be ready to spend a lot of cash that provides very little payoff.

Good luck!

 

[rokshana]

Filters exist for a reason. If you could bypass them by just making contact with the PD, everyone would do so and the PD would be flooded with letters. The only reasonable way to get past a filter is to rotate at a place or have someone that knows you and also knows the PD in question vouch for you.

Your chances in NY are low- it is the second or third most competitive region in the US if you mean NYC, and not much better if you mean the entire state. Your app is, barring some strong ECs/research, not competitive. You can still potentially match IM if you cat a broad net, but don't count on NYC.

As to whether you should apply to programs with filters, it doesn't hurt as some listed cutoffs are incorrect. But most of that money will be wasted, so be ready to spend a lot of cash that provides very little payoff.

Good luck!

There are plenty of low tier undesirable to amgs residency programs in nyc

 

[Mad Jack]

There are plenty of low tier undesirable to amgs residency programs in nyc

Plenty, sure, but they have plenty of people to pick from that have far better scores than OP. Like I said, apply and hope for the best, but realize that you only get one good shot at the match, so apply broadly and do it right if you want to end up in IM.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Agree with above--you have a chance at some lower tier programs, but you are not competitive enough to be able to cast a narrow net. Apply to a bunch (100+) of programs including some that are in rural areas far from where you would like to be, and you're likely to get something.

To answer your other question, if they say 230+ they probably mean it and will screen you out. You can try to apply anyways and see what happens, but it's likely wasted money. Frankly, since you have no publications, I'm not sure what you could tell them in an email that would be so compelling that they would consider you.

 

[QueensFinesf]

I studying in Cuba.204 step 1,241step 2,passed cs. All the programs I applied to had a step 1 requirement of 220 . I applied to 35 programs only in queens and Brooklyn . No real research. I had done some medical missions . My personal statement was about growing up in nyc and wanting to come home to help heal and lead my community. I’m at the only academic hospital in Brooklyn. They actually rejected me and then called me in for an interview. I knew nobody there. I knew I nailed the interview. I think the ps and the interview got me in.

 

[GoSpursGo]

That's cool, and yes that can happen. Only the OP knows if it's worth the money to apply to programs that he/she doesn't meet the cutoffs for and hope for the best.

Regardless, I think it would be a poor decision to apply to 35 programs, but I'm glad it worked out for you.

 

[Anicetus]

Above is my app info. Here is a list I made of programs I plan to apply. I am thinking 40 programs. Also, what is the recommended distribution of programs (% reach, target, safety)? Question marks for those that I know I won't get an interview but applying anyway because 1) the Match/NRMP is unpredictable, and 2) this is the only time I'll be applying to residency programs anyway. Open to feedback in terms of which to add, which to remove. Again, goal is to go back to CA, and unsure of whether to pursue fellowship but would like to have the resources available to keep my options open (so academic program would be best).

California
UCSF?
Stanford?
UCLA?
UCSD?
Cedars-Sinai
USC
Harbor-UCLA
UC Davis
Olive View-UCLA
UCSF-Fresno
UC Irvine
Kaiser LA
Scripps Green
Loma Linda
SCVMC
Kaiser Oakland
Kaiser SF
Kaiser Santa Clara
Scripps Mercy
Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital
CPMC
Alameda-Highland
Kern
Huntington Memorial
White Memorial
UC Riverside
St Mary's in SF
St Mary's in Long Beach

Out of state
Mayo Clinic in Arizona
U Arizona Tucson
U Arizona Phoenix
U Arizona South Campus
Maricopa
U Nevada Reno
U Nevada Las Vegas
Oregon State
Legacy Emmanuel
Providence Health - Providence
Providence Health - St Vincent
Virginia Mason
U New Mexico
U Colorado
U Hawaii
Loyola
Rush
U Illinois
Rosalind Franklin - Lovell
Some East Coast programs for the heck of it (Brown? Yale?)

I obsessed over finding out stats the cali places we’re looking for over the last season. Based on your scores I’m pretty sure based on step 1 alone you’ll get interviews at cedars and usc as people matched there this last cycle with worse numbers than yours unless they decide to heavily weigh in step 2 this year. The word from the vine was that they only used step 1 to screen which was like mid 220s unless they were from usc or UCLA med school where all they needed was a pulse to get interviews at their respective IM programs (cedars as the loose affiliate). UCI similarly.

UCSD was slightly more competitive than the above.

The rest of the communities you listed are for sure places that would interview you.

 

[885815]

I obsessed over finding out stats the cali places we’re looking for over the last season. Based on your scores I’m pretty sure based on step 1 alone you’ll get interviews at cedars and usc as people matched there this last cycle with worse numbers than yours unless they decide to heavily weigh in step 2 this year. The word from the vine was that they only used step 1 to screen which was like mid 220s unless they were from usc or UCLA med school where all they needed was a pulse to get interviews at their respective IM programs (cedars as the loose affiliate). UCI similarly.

UCSD was slightly more competitive than the above.

The rest of the communities you listed are for sure places that would interview you.

I'm thinking about calling the programs anonymously to ask whether they screen using Step 1 and/or 2, and whether they would drop my application since I scored worse on Step 2. Thanks!

 

[885815]

.

 

[lulu09]

Found out that I'm in the third quartile of the class but not sure if that really changes anything. I also took a look at the resident roster of the CA community programs you mentioned but it doesn't seem like the IMGs make up the majority at least in the intern class...

Here is my updated list. Please help me narrow down to 40 programs or fewer if you think I should. This shows 50. Bold are additions. A=academic, C=community, M=mixed academic and community (all according to FREIDA):

California
(A) UCSF?
(A) Stanford?
(A) UCLA?
(A) UCSD?
(M) Cedars-Sinai
(A) USC
(A) Harbor-UCLA
(A) UC Davis
(M) Olive View-UCLA
(M) UCSF-Fresno
(A) UC Irvine
(M) Kaiser LA
(M) Scripps Green
(A) Loma Linda
(M) SCVMC
(M) Kaiser Oakland
(M) Kaiser SF
(M) Kaiser Santa Clara
(M) Scripps Mercy
(C) Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital
(M) CPMC
(M) Alameda-Highland
(M) Kern
(M) Huntington Memorial
(M) White Memorial
(M) UC Riverside
(M) St Mary's in SF
St Mary's in Long Beach

Out of state
(M) Mayo Clinic in Arizona
(A) U Arizona Tucson
(A) U Arizona Phoenix
(A) U Arizona South Campus
(M) Maricopa
(M) U Nevada Reno
(M) U Nevada Las Vegas
(A) Oregon State
(M) Legacy Emmanuel
(M) Providence Health - Providence
(M) Providence Health - St Vincent
(C) Virginia Mason
(A) U New Mexico
(A) U Colorado
(M) U Hawaii
(A) Loyola
(A) Rush
(A) U Illinois
(A) Rosalind Franklin - Lovell
(A) U Texas Southwestern
(A) U Texas Medical Branch Hospitals
(A) U Texas Houston
(A) U Texas San Antonio
(A) Tulane
A few programs affiliated with my school (mostly mixed academic/community)

I feel like I should add more pure academic programs but I'm stuck on which to add. Open to any feedback from SDNers. Thanks.

I can only tell you based on my experience, but I would take out Kaiser Santa Clara, Scripps Mercy as I came close to not even ranking them (or I may not have ranked them, can't remember). I was under the impression that those other LA community programs are mainly FMGs but I may be mistaken (note that if you just look at the intern roster it might be misleading as there is a lot of AMGs that do their prelim year at these "chiller" community programs - St. Mary's in SF when I applied had intern AMG prelims that matched extremely competitive advanced positions at UCSF)

Where do you want to be geographically the most? Seems likely you're open to most places west of the Mississippi. I think you can keep Colorado. You can apply to Baylor (+Methodist if you're at it), Utah. Tulane is a great program. There's a bunch of midwest programs (Iowa, Indiana, Cincinnati, Wisconsin...etc.) which I think you will have a good shot at but I don't really know as I didn't apply there. If you really want to diversify there's a bunch of programs in Florida. If you're ok with NYC add RWJ, Montefiore, Downstate, Northwell (main +/- Lenox Hill if you want).

If your innermost desire is to stay out west (ideally California) even if it means going to a good community program, I think you'll do just fine not adding Texas or even Chicago. I loved CPMC and Valley and I think you would be an attractive candidate.

 

[Anicetus]

I'm thinking about calling the programs anonymously to ask whether they screen using Step 1 and/or 2, and whether they would drop my application since I scored worse on Step 2. Thanks!

You may just get the generic bull**** that is “we look at the whole applicant and consider all aspects of the application.... oh what? A cutoff? Oh we don’t use cutoffs... thanks have a good day as well!”

In reality you may just have to ask people in the med schools who know the inside scoop.

Just apply. If you get an interview just come up with a damn good reason as to why your step 2 dropped so much.

 

[885815]

I can only tell you based on my experience, but I would take out Kaiser Santa Clara, Scripps Mercy as I came close to not even ranking them (or I may not have ranked them, can't remember). I was under the impression that those other LA community programs are mainly FMGs but I may be mistaken (note that if you just look at the intern roster it might be misleading as there is a lot of AMGs that do their prelim year at these "chiller" community programs - St. Mary's in SF when I applied had intern AMG prelims that matched extremely competitive advanced positions at UCSF)

Where do you want to be geographically the most? Seems likely you're open to most places west of the Mississippi. I think you can keep Colorado. You can apply to Baylor (+Methodist if you're at it), Utah. Tulane is a great program. There's a bunch of midwest programs (Iowa, Indiana, Cincinnati, Wisconsin...etc.) which I think you will have a good shot at but I don't really know as I didn't apply there. If you really want to diversify there's a bunch of programs in Florida. If you're ok with NYC add RWJ, Montefiore, Downstate, Northwell (main +/- Lenox Hill if you want).

If your innermost desire is to stay out west (ideally California) even if it means going to a good community program, I think you'll do just fine not adding Texas or even Chicago. I loved CPMC and Valley and I think you would be an attractive candidate.

You may just get the generic bull**** that is “we look at the whole applicant and consider all aspects of the application.... oh what? A cutoff? Oh we don’t use cutoffs... thanks have a good day as well!”

In reality you may just have to ask people in the med schools who know the inside scoop.

Just apply. If you get an interview just come up with a damn good reason as to why your step 2 dropped so much.

Thank you both for your advice! Really appreciate it.

 

[doctordoctorgimmethenews]

US MD student from southern academic institution
USMLE Step 1: 238
USMLE Step 2: 256
USMLE CS: pass
Class rank: top quartile
AOA: yes, junior AOA
Clerkship grades (ABCDF scale): all A's except B in surgery
Research: 3 projects in med school (1 benchwork, 1 chart review, 1 QI) + 1 undergrad project, no publications
LOR: 3 from full professors

Open to suggestions on where to apply.
How competitive am I for programs on the coasts?
Thanks for the help!

 

[275471]

US MD student from southern academic institution
USMLE Step 1: 238
USMLE Step 2: 256
USMLE CS: pass
Class rank: top quartile
AOA: yes, junior AOA
Clerkship grades (ABCDF scale): all A's except B in surgery
Research: 3 projects in med school (1 benchwork, 1 chart review, 1 QI) + 1 undergrad project, no publications
LOR: 3 from full professors

Open to suggestions on where to apply.
How competitive am I for programs on the coasts?
Thanks for the help!

I'm definitely curious to see other's input on this as well but I suspect nothing is out of reach. However, with not a top step 1 and somewhat limited research, I do think that some at the top will be reaches just because it can be so competitive at the top. I think you'll get some interviews at your reaches given your AOA and good step2ck score - but will depend somewhat on which school you go to.

Reaches: JHH, MGH, UPenn, BWH, Duke, UCSF, Columbia
Good shot: BID, Mt Sinai, NYU, Vandy, UTSW, UCSD, UWashington, Cornell, Emory, Michigan, UAB, Northwestern, UChicago, Mayo, Pitt

Other good options to consider: UNC, UVA, Baylor, Colorado

Best of luck!

 

[EastOfSalinas]

Long-time occasional lurker, appreciate the advice I've gotten over the years on here. I'm applying this cycle, and haven't yet made a list of programs to apply to. My (unoriginal) preference is to live in a major, coastal city, and I'm looking for a career in research/industry. Is it unrealistic to narrow the programs I consider to academic university programs in cities like Seattle, SF, LA, NYC, Boston and Philly? I'm wondering how much I should look into programs in areas where I wouldn't want to stay or where I don't have family/friend connections.

School: Top 5

Step 1: mid 250s
Step 2: 270+

Class rank: TBD
AOA: 50% chance? so let's call it A + O
Non-MD Degrees: MS
Clerkships: H in majority including IM, HP in two
Research: 1-2 first author abstracts, 1 first author paper, 1-2 reviews in submission, one as first and one as second, another paper that may be submitted in time as second author, two posters in college
ECs: Ehhhhhhhhh
LoRs: Fine

Thanks!

 

[Adjet]

Long-time occasional lurker, appreciate the advice I've gotten over the years on here. I'm applying this cycle, and haven't yet made a list of programs to apply to. My (unoriginal) preference is to live in a major, coastal city, and I'm looking for a career in research/industry. Is it unrealistic to narrow the programs I consider to academic university programs in cities like Seattle, SF, LA, NYC, Boston and Philly? I'm wondering how much I should look into programs in areas where I wouldn't want to stay or where I don't have family/friend connections.

School: Top 5

Step 1: mid 250s
Step 2: 270+

Class rank: TBD
AOA: 50% chance? so let's call it A + O
Non-MD Degrees: MS
Clerkships: H in majority including IM, HP in two
Research: 1-2 first author abstracts, 1 first author paper, 1-2 reviews in submission, one as first and one as second, another paper that may be submitted in time as second author, two posters in college
ECs: Ehhhhhhhhh
LoRs: Fine

Thanks!

You will get an interview pretty much wherever you want.

 

[Jinxapotato]

Long-time occasional lurker, appreciate the advice I've gotten over the years on here. I'm applying this cycle, and haven't yet made a list of programs to apply to. My (unoriginal) preference is to live in a major, coastal city, and I'm looking for a career in research/industry. Is it unrealistic to narrow the programs I consider to academic university programs in cities like Seattle, SF, LA, NYC, Boston and Philly? I'm wondering how much I should look into programs in areas where I wouldn't want to stay or where I don't have family/friend connections.

School: Top 5

Step 1: mid 250s
Step 2: 270+

Class rank: TBD
AOA: 50% chance? so let's call it A + O
Non-MD Degrees: MS
Clerkships: H in majority including IM, HP in two
Research: 1-2 first author abstracts, 1 first author paper, 1-2 reviews in submission, one as first and one as second, another paper that may be submitted in time as second author, two posters in college
ECs: Ehhhhhhhhh
LoRs: Fine

Thanks!

Very impressive, I'd start with #1 on doximity rank and go down to 30 and stop there lol

 

[traveler123]

Hi there,

I am an AMG, graduated this past June 2018. During my fourth year, I decided to postpone applying to residency because my husband was working as a pilot in a different country and had almost two years left on his contract in that country. By to postponing my application until the next cycle (which is now), it enabled me to move after graduation to join my husband where he is located and avoid being in a 16-hour long distance marriage as a PGY1. He will be able to move back to the USA with me when I start residency in June 2019. I am currently applying to IM, my questions are:

1. Will not applying during 4th year and taking this time off greatly reduce my chances of matching?
2. Will some programs assume I didn’t match and I’m re-applying? Or will they know it is my first time applying?
3. How much of my personal circumstances (aka my Red Flag of not applying as an MS4) should I explain on my personal statement?

About me:
-Graduated at top 25% of my class (GPA 3.92)
-Alpha Omega Alpha since MS3
-Step 1 235
-Step 2 Ck 234
-Step 2 CS: scheduled for October
-Currently volunteering, can’t work as I am on a visitor visa in this new country

I appreciate any input you can give me 🙂

 

[AdmiralChz]

This would have been a good question to ask LAST year before you did this, now the question is sort of moot. The big issue is you have been doing no clinical work (and won’t?) for a year prior to starting - most academic programs will probably pass, even with your strong application. You can almost certainly still match, though, but you likely won’t be able to target a metro area to live - apply broadly to low-level academics and community.

Best thing you can do is detail why this happened in your PS, honestly. That way programs know what the deal is.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I agree, you probably should have asked last year--the best route might have been to ask for a leave of absence last year, come back and do MS4 this year that way you would still be applying as a graduating senior. Alas, no sense thinking about the past now.

The no clinical work is a real problem I think, but probably not insurmountable as long as you apply broadly. Do be explicit about what's up with your app in your personal statement.

 

[EastOfSalinas]

Thank you both. Do you think I could get away with applying to 15-20 programs scattered across those cities? +Chicago

 

[Anicetus]

Thank you both. Do you think I could get away with applying to 15-20 programs scattered across those cities? +Chicago

I did almost exactly what you did with worse stats and was successful. You don’t even need Chicago. I was just desperate to go back to a desirable city lol.