Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[deleted1016251]

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nvm

 

[throwaway1000000]

Could I get your advice on this one, @throwaway1000000

Hey, yeah, you have an excellent app but not will be limited due to your DO status.
I can't honestly comment much since I am not sure how DO apps play out in the IM. I have no doubt you will match into an academic program. I do think U michigan is probably out of reach. Didn't get an interview there with similar stats and MD. Unless you are from Michigan in which case that might help?
I can just give broad advice which is apply to a wide net of programs. This is not the time to save money. I am from the mid-west, sounds like you are as well. Definitely apply to all the solid mid-west mid-tiers: Ohio state, Case Western, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Rush, Loyola, UIC, Indiana, (these are probably reaches given your DO status but given your app you might match into one of them). I know aways are tough now but I would have recommended an away at one of these places because your app is really good.
The places where I think you will be very competitive at: Nebraska, SLU, MCW?, Cincinnati Memphis?, Kentucky? (didn't apply to some of these programs but they seem to be a tier below the above programs so I think you should be competitive here)
That's all I pretty much have. Unfortunately, I am not too sure how the match works for DO IM candidates. Your best bet would be come up with a list using doximity, old sdn threads, IM spreadsheets (find the applications with your similar stats and DO and see where they got interviews). Also look at class rosters of above programs and see how many DOs are in each class.
In terms of making yourself more competitive, you pretty much did everything. Take step 2, get good letters, try to get a good grade in your sub-i
All said and done, you will match into an academic program which should keep your doors open to any fellowship provided you continue to work hard.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Alas, Michigan and any top-30 IM residencies are completely our of your reach. Even upper mid tier residencies are unrealistic. Your best best are low-id tier residencies who take DOs. Quick look at resident list at Rush did not reveal any obvious DOs. UC Irvine has taken DOs so that can be a target. Apply broadly, do your homework (i.e. look up which residencies take DOs), and good luck.

Are you serious? lol Low tier IM programs for @Danger_Dog ??? Man this thread is harsh. At least mid tier University programs are in reach come on now. Gtown, wake, brown, dartmouth are solid mid tier unis that have taken DOs and im sure they would consider this guy. At my DO school just this past year we had a Wake and Gtown IM match and i doubt these kids had an app like danger dog

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Are you serious? lol Low tier IM programs for @Danger_Dog ??? Man this thread is harsh. At least mid tier University programs are in reach come on now. Gtown, wake, brown, dartmouth are solid mid tier unis that have taken DOs and im sure they would consider this guy. At my DO school just this past year we had a Wake and Gtown IM match and i doubt these kids had an app like danger dog

Just being realistic. OP has good Step scores and GHHS, but no research, multiple passes in clinical rotations (does his school not have HP?), and I assume good but no breathtaking extracurriculars. I think he/she will end up at low to mid tier academic program. The programs you mentioned are all within reach, but would you stake your entire medical school career on those? Furthermore, the OP specifically asked about Michigan, Rush, and UC Irvine. Michigan is completely out of reach. Personally, I think Gtown/Wake may be stronger than Rush but Rush has not taken DOs in the past couple of years. Even amongst mid-tier programs, the DO bisa is real. Therefore, I would advise applying broadly and have a good number of safety programs. Most importantly, OP should be targeting programs who have taken DOs in the past.

M3, MD

Med school: Top 10
Step 1: >260
Step 2: Probably will not take before applying
Clerkships: HP in IM, had it first. H in everything else
SubI: Probably can't do one before applying 2/2 COVID
Class rank: n/a
AOA: Not decided, but I bet I will not get it - my class is pretty elite
Research: A couple publications, a couple abstracts
EC: Pretty standard, nothing remarkable
LORs: Should be good, I had really good clinical evals throughout clerkships
PS, interviews should be pretty solid.

Interested in hem/onc which matches with research and ECs.

I know I'm fairly competitive given step/ med school.
q1: does the HP in medicine f** me though for top 10 programs? my Chair's letter will hopefully explain that it was my first rotation and my evals were great.
q2: my program list is about ~20 and they're almost all top programs. Is that overconfident?
q3: am I alright in not taking CK before applying?

Thank you!

1. Don't worry about it. You will be just fine
2. I would add 3-5 upper-mid tier 'safety' programs in your desired geographical area. You may opt for 3 if you are confident your home institution will take you... but rather be safe than sorry
3. No need to take Step 2

 

[Deecee2DO]

Just being realistic. OP has good Step scores and GHHS, but no research, multiple passes in clinical rotations (does his school not have HP?), and I assume good but no breathtaking extracurriculars. I think he/she will end up at low to mid tier academic program. The programs you mentioned are all within reach, but would you stake your entire medical school career on those? Furthermore, the OP specifically asked about Michigan, Rush, and UC Irvine. Michigan is completely out of reach. Personally, I think Gtown/Wake may be stronger than Rush but Rush has not taken DOs in the past couple of years. Even amongst mid-tier programs, the DO bisa is real. Therefore, I would advise applying broadly and have a good number of safety programs. Most importantly, OP should be targeting programs who have taken DOs in the past.



1. Don't worry about it. You will be just fine
2. I would add 3-5 upper-mid tier 'safety' programs in your desired geographical area. You may opt for 3 if you are confident your home institution will take you... but rather be safe than sorry
3. No need to take Step 2

Since when do ECs matter. Steps in that range and no red flags should get him a good amount of mid tier academic IM programs. I still think youre being overly harsh. He/shes got a great app. SDN is brutal sometimes. Go get em @Danger_Dog

 

[Matched2020]

I wanted to drop in on this thread, which was really scary reading through when I was applying, to say that this is NOT an end all be all in terms of recommendations. I applied with very low stats, no AOA or H in IM, but with solid research/ECs/prior work experience from a mid-tier school.

I ended up matching at my #1, top 10 IM program, with several other invites to top 30-50 programs. Based on the feedback from this thread, I would have been only able to match to a community program.

If you are in this situation, apply very broadly! I did definitely get lucky, but I think I was able to craft a solid personal statement and overall application to catch those schools that don't auto-filter. They are out there--best of luck this year!

 

[whoknows2012]

I wanted to drop in on this thread, which was really scary reading through when I was applying, to say that this is NOT an end all be all in terms of recommendations. I applied with very low stats, no AOA or H in IM, but with solid research/ECs/prior work experience from a mid-tier school.

I ended up matching at my #1, top 10 IM program, with several other invites to top 30-50 programs. Based on the feedback from this thread, I would have been only able to match to a community program.

If you are in this situation, apply very broadly! I did definitely get lucky, but I think I was able to craft a solid personal statement and overall application to catch those schools that don't auto-filter. They are out there--best of luck this year!

This is great news for you, congrats. This is also unhelpful for those applying as it doesn’t give any context. Please help other posters by explaining your situation. Thanks in advance

 

[Matched2020]

This is great news for you, congrats. This is also unhelpful for those applying as it doesn’t give any context. Please help other posters by explaining your situation. Thanks in advance

I thought I did a decent job of explaining the context, what more would you like to know?

I did do some letters of interest with a little success (unclear if I got an II d/t LOI though since they were not time-related) and I did not do this for my #1 though.

Like I already said, I think the best thing I did was apply super broadly and develop a cohesive application playing up my research/work.

 

[medikle]

Hi everyone,
First time poster, sorry if I do this wrong.

Med school rank: Top 10
Step 1: 261
Clerkship Grades: All HP except Honors in Medicine and 1 other.
Class rank: probably 2nd quartile, not AOA.
EC: Pretty standard
Pubs: a couple from undergrad, only first author for case reports.

Wondering if it's still reasonable to have hopes for any of the Big 4. Would really appreciate input. Thanks guys. @throwaway1000000 @MyTachyBradyHeart

 

[throwaway1000000]

Hi everyone,
First time poster, sorry if I do this wrong.

Med school rank: Top 10
Step 1: 261
Clerkship Grades: All HP except Honors in Medicine and 1 other.
Class rank: probably 2nd quartile, not AOA.
EC: Pretty standard
Pubs: a couple from undergrad, only first author for case reports.

Wondering if it's still reasonable to have hopes for any of the Big 4. Would really appreciate input. Thanks guys. @throwaway1000000 @MyTachyBradyHeart

You will match at a top 10 program. I would apply to 30-40 programs to be on the safe side (you don't need to but what's another few hundred bucks in the grand scheme of medical education). I would apply to more than needed and decline interviews later.
Do well on your sub-i. Get good letters. Do well on step 2. That's pretty much it. If you do all these well, you will for sure match at a top 10 program. If you falter at one of these things whether that's your letters, step 2 or sub-i you might dip down to top 20, but I doubt it.
Just continue to work hard and you will match at a stellar program.

 

[medikle]

You will match at a top 10 program. I would apply to 30-40 programs to be on the safe side (you don't need to but what's another few hundred bucks in the grand scheme of medical education). I would apply to more than needed and decline interviews later.
Do well on your sub-i. Get good letters. Do well on step 2. That's pretty much it. If you do all these well, you will for sure match at a top 10 program. If you falter at one of these things whether that's your letters, step 2 or sub-i you might dip down to top 20, but I doubt it.
Just continue to work hard and you will match at a stellar program.

Thanks so much, thats definitely encouraging. I think I needed that to have the fire in me to push even harder during Sub-Is.

I was actually planning on taking Step 2 after ERAS submission. Based on your response, sounds like that might not be the best idea then? tbh i got super lucky and dont know if I can reproduce that.

 

[throwaway1000000]

Thanks so much, thats definitely encouraging. I think I needed that to have the fire in me to push even harder during Sub-Is.

I was actually planning on taking Step 2 after ERAS submission. Based on your response, sounds like that might not be the best idea then? tbh i got super lucky and dont know if I can reproduce that.

I think that should be okay. I timed step 2 so that I got my score very soon after ERAS submission. (Take it about 3 weeks before ERAS is due and you can time it to pretty much get it a few days after ERAS is due)
I did pretty well, so I just uploaded my score to ERAS and emailed programs. I thought that was a decent strategy.

 

[deleted1016251]

Just being realistic. OP has good Step scores and GHHS, but no research, multiple passes in clinical rotations (does his school not have HP?), and I assume good but no breathtaking extracurriculars. I think he/she will end up at low to mid tier academic program. The programs you mentioned are all within reach, but would you stake your entire medical school career on those? Furthermore, the OP specifically asked about Michigan, Rush, and UC Irvine. Michigan is completely out of reach. Personally, I think Gtown/Wake may be stronger than Rush but Rush has not taken DOs in the past couple of years. Even amongst mid-tier programs, the DO bisa is real. Therefore, I would advise applying broadly and have a good number of safety programs. Most importantly, OP should be targeting programs who have taken DOs in the past.



1. Don't worry about it. You will be just fine
2. I would add 3-5 upper-mid tier 'safety' programs in your desired geographical area. You may opt for 3 if you are confident your home institution will take you... but rather be safe than sorry
3. No need to take Step 2

Yeah, our school doesn’t have a high pass. The threshold for honoring is super high on shelf exams (at least in my opinion, not sure what other schools have it), but basically we need to score in roughly the top 12-15% of COMAT shelf exam takers to honor. It’s rough

 

[Señor S]

I wanted to drop in on this thread, which was really scary reading through when I was applying, to say that this is NOT an end all be all in terms of recommendations. I applied with very low stats, no AOA or H in IM, but with solid research/ECs/prior work experience from a mid-tier school.

I ended up matching at my #1, top 10 IM program, with several other invites to top 30-50 programs. Based on the feedback from this thread, I would have been only able to match to a community program.

If you are in this situation, apply very broadly! I did definitely get lucky, but I think I was able to craft a solid personal statement and overall application to catch those schools that don't auto-filter. They are out there--best of luck this year!

Are you URM? Did you have some kind of insider connection? And what do you define as a top 10 program? Your experience is atypical. The most competitive IM programs have huge classes and get thousands upon thousands of applications; they do not have time to do a deep read of every application prior to offering interviews. At that stage you are absolutely judged on the basic, superficial parts of your app. An applicant from a mid-tier school with "low stats" (low Step scores) and no AOA is generally going to get screened out unless he won a Nobel prize.

But I agree that applying broadly is a good idea. You never know. Applications are the cheapest part of this process.

 

[bigfootisreal]

Can someone provide some insight or maybe some ranges for stats that would make an applicant competitive for low to mid tier academic IM residencies? I'm thinking more for the student who could see themselves practicing as a general IM but may also want to leave the option to sub-specialize later on. Preferably looking for US MD students or US DO students.

Thanks so much!

 

[DrJackRyan]

I'm a DO that just matched into a mid-tier university IM program. I scored a mid 230s and mid 250s on USMLE and mid 500s and high 700s on COMLEX. Had 2 first author publications and 2 poster presentations at the time of interviews. No AOA, passes in all 3rd year rotations except OB (honors). Got interviews at basically all of the university programs within the states touching my home state plus 1 or 2 from outside my region. Didn't receive any interviews in the top 25ish range and also didn't get interviews at programs I should have been competitive for but were outside of the south where my home state is located. Hopefully you'll get some other people to post what their experience was so you can get more than n=1.

 

[bigfootisreal]

I'm a DO that just matched into a mid-tier university IM program. I scored a mid 230s and mid 250s on USMLE and mid 500s and high 700s on COMLEX. Had 2 first author publications and 2 poster presentations at the time of interviews. No AOA, passes in all 3rd year rotations except OB (honors). Got interviews at basically all of the university programs within the states touching my home state plus 1 or 2 from outside my region. Didn't receive any interviews in the top 25ish range and also didn't get interviews at programs I should have been competitive for but were outside of the south where my home state is located. Hopefully you'll get some other people to post what their experience was so you can get more than n=1.

That’s a super helpful start. Thank you so much!

 

[Matched2020]

Are you URM? Did you have some kind of insider connection? And what do you define as a top 10 program? Your experience is atypical. The most competitive IM programs have huge classes and get thousands upon thousands of applications; they do not have time to do a deep read of every application prior to offering interviews. At that stage you are absolutely judged on the basic, superficial parts of your app. An applicant from a mid-tier school with "low stats" (low Step scores) and no AOA is generally going to get screened out unless he won a Nobel prize.

But I agree that applying broadly is a good idea. You never know. Applications are the cheapest part of this process.

ORM, no insider connection. Top 10 to me is: MGH, JHH, BWH, USCF, Duke, Columbia, WashU, Michigan, Penn, Stanford. I definitely did not get a Nobel prize either 😉.

 

[whoknows2012]

ORM, no insider connection. Top 10 to me is: MGH, JHH, BWH, USCF, Duke, Columbia, WashU, Michigan, Penn, Stanford. I definitely did not get a Nobel prize either 😉.

With your research resume no one would’ve said you were destined for a community program, which was Originally what I took issue with. Your research background is more than solid from the other thread you posted in. Solid for a med student is 1-2 abstracts and a middle author pub along with lengthy research experience. So long as a program is willing to get past your less than average board scores (since you go to a good med school this was likely no problem) you would get a major look. Top programs are looking for academicians and you meet their criteria with your research resume

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Yeah, our school doesn’t have a high pass. The threshold for honoring is super high on shelf exams (at least in my opinion, not sure what other schools have it), but basically we need to score in roughly the top 12-15% of COMAT shelf exam takers to honor. It’s rough

No dog in this fight but Rush does in fact have 2 DO categorical interns.

I mixed up undergraduate and medical schools when looking at Rush's list of residents. My apologies. Looking at DrJackRyan's post, he had lower scores but significantly more research and unfortunately only matched to a mid-tier academic program. Can't draw conclusions on n=1 but at least gives you a sense of your range (to use a poker term). I think you will match academic no doubt; my point was that you should aim for programs who have taken DOs in the past. Don't waste money on programs who have never taken DOs before.

I wanted to drop in on this thread, which was really scary reading through when I was applying, to say that this is NOT an end all be all in terms of recommendations. I applied with very low stats, no AOA or H in IM, but with solid research/ECs/prior work experience from a mid-tier school.

I ended up matching at my #1, top 10 IM program, with several other invites to top 30-50 programs. Based on the feedback from this thread, I would have been only able to match to a community program.

If you are in this situation, apply very broadly! I did definitely get lucky, but I think I was able to craft a solid personal statement and overall application to catch those schools that don't auto-filter. They are out there--best of luck this year!

Congratulations on your match; unfortunately, you are in the minority. Most top programs screen heavily and has bias towards other top medical schools. I applied from a below-mid tier school and luckily matched into a top program but had other outstanding aspects to my application. Seems like you did too. Sdn is an unforgiving place for advice but that is exactly its appeal also. Posters should take into account the full range of advice and make the best decision for him/herself.

 

[deleted709825]

@Matched2020 When you say "very low stats" do you mean ~ 220s Step 1, or like almost failed?

 

[Matched2020]

@Matched2020 When you say "very low stats" do you mean ~ 220s Step 1, or like almost failed?

<<220

 

[Diphyllobothrium latum]

FMG, scores below. No USCE in any form. Non-US research experience with multiple publications currently under submission, many of them as first author. Would I stand any chances in this year's match cycle if I were to apply without a Step 2CS result, assuming that application deadlines are not pushed back and no rescheduling is possible before July 18th (deadline for this year's reporting period ending on Sep 16th). As you can guess my exam got cancelled due to coronavirus outbreak.

 

[dawoo14]

Adding my experience for a data point.

Mid tier med school in NE.
Step 1: 260+
Step 2: 260+
Clerkships: H in all
Class rank: Top 1%
AOA: Yes
Research: Clinical. 1 co-first author pub, several posters and oral presentations
EC: Some unique stuff. Was on the board of a medical reference company. Tutoring, headed a school interest group, etc.

Interviews in top 10: BWH, MGH, JHH, Penn, Columbia, Stanford, Vandy. Ghosted by Duke, UCSF
Interviews in top 25: Cornell, NW, UChicago, Yale, BIDMC, Sinai, NYU. Ghosted by Pitt, Emory.

Matched at #1.

 

[deleted762362]

Hey all, grateful for any advice. Thank you for this thread and the insight. Worried about my grade in IM.

Med school rank: Low tier, South
USMLE Step 1: 246
USMLE Step 2: Anticipating 260s +
Class rank: Probably 3rd quartile
AOA: no
Honors: P in Medicine and Surgery, HP OBGYN, Family, Pediatrics, Psych
Research: 2 Pubs, one in high rank journal, posters and presentations
LOR: Working on them
EC: One unique, and a lot of volunteerwork, fundraising, tutoring, school club

Worried about my P in Medicine, was due to personal circumstances (family death)

Do you think it will hold me back from academic programs? Realistically what can I shoot for? Am I locked out of good programs?

 

[throwaway1000000]

Hey all, grateful for any advice. Thank you for this thread and the insight. Worried about my grade in IM.

Med school rank: Low tier, South
USMLE Step 1: 246
USMLE Step 2: Anticipating 260s +
Class rank: Probably 3rd quartile
AOA: no
Honors: P in Medicine and Surgery, HP OBGYN, Family, Pediatrics, Psych
Research: 2 Pubs, one in high rank journal, posters and presentations
LOR: Working on them
EC: One unique, and a lot of volunteerwork, fundraising, tutoring, school club

Worried about my P in Medicine, was due to personal circumstances (family death)

Do you think it will hold me back from academic programs? Realistically what can I shoot for? Am I locked out of good programs?

You will match at an academic program. Not so sure about which south-mid tier programs (didn't apply to those) but in the midwest think case western, wisconsin, iowa, minnesota, rush, uic, indiana, and loyola. Didn't interview but cincy, osu are supposed to be pretty decent too.
I think the class rank and lack of AOA will probably be a roadblock in terms of matching to the next tier midwest programs like WashU, Mayo, and Northwestern.

 

[deleted762362]

You will match at an academic program. Not so sure about which south-mid tier programs (didn't apply to those) but in the midwest think case western, wisconsin, iowa, minnesota, rush, uic, indiana, and loyola. Didn't interview but cincy, osu are supposed to be pretty decent too.
I think the class rank and lack of AOA will probably be a roadblock in terms of matching to the next tier midwest programs like WashU, Mayo, and Northwestern.

Hey Doctor thank you so much. You don’t know how grateful I am for this guidance. Wishing you the best, i’ll apply everywhere. Thank you

 

[throwaway1000000]

Hey Doctor thank you so much. You don’t know how grateful I am for this guidance. Wishing you the best, i’ll apply everywhere. Thank you

No problem. Look at some of the sdn's threads where people list out their stats and what interviews they got. should give you a good idea of where you stand.

 

[AlteredScale]

Adding experience to hopefully help so other hopefully DOs wanting IM:

USMLE: none, not ideal and not planned
Comlex level 1: 632
Comlex level 2: 550 (ouch)
Comlex level 2 PE: pass first attempt
Clerkships: H in IM, P all others
Preclinical class rank: top quartile
Clinical class rank: top third

Research: additional research year, 10ish co author on accepted abstracts to national conferences in GI, cards, gen IM, Med Ed, three of them as first author. 3 co-author (2nd author for two of them) full manuscripts at time of ERAS submission, spent 3 months in lab of vice chair of research for university hospital nearby

ECs: admissions ambassador, tutor, officer for IM club, steering committee for local CCFA chapter event set up

Total apps sent: 58 (4-5 reach programs)

Rejections: 6 throughout cycle including MCW, Dartmouth, Albert Einstein (philly). Ghosted by a lot of west coast programs

Interview Invites: 16 total (University of Missouri Columbia and KC, Virginia Tech/Carillon, Geisinger, UCSF Fresno, KU, KU Wichita)

Matched: #1 (uni)

Tips: honestly, TAKE USMLE, if I had taken it that probably would have gotten me a better pull from uni programs. But alas sometimes thats not what happens and you have to make do with what you have. Use the resources provided like FRIEDA and if unsure call and check. The idea of “trust but verify” will be your friend in selected programs to apply to as a Comlex only applicant wanting to go university IM.

 

[throwaway1000000]

Adding experience to hopefully help so other hopefully DOs wanting IM:

USMLE: none, not ideal and not planned
Comlex level 1: 632
Comlex level 2: 550 (ouch)
Comlex level 2 PE: pass first attempt
Clerkships: H in IM, P all others
Preclinical class rank: top quartile
Clinical class rank: top third

Research: additional research year, 10ish co author on accepted abstracts to national conferences in GI, cards, gen IM, Med Ed, three of them as first author. 3 co-author (2nd author for two of them) full manuscripts at time of ERAS submission, spent 3 months in lab of vice chair of research for university hospital nearby

ECs: admissions ambassador, tutor, officer for IM club, steering committee for local CCFA chapter event set up

Total apps sent: 58 (4-5 reach programs)

Rejections: 6 throughout cycle including MCW, Dartmouth, Albert Einstein (philly). Ghosted by a lot of west coast programs

Interview Invites: 16 total (mixture of community, communiversity, and university). Attended 12. ranked 11.

Matched: #1 (university)

Tips: honestly, TAKE USMLE, if I had taken it that probably would have gotten me a better pull from uni programs. But alas sometimes thats not what happens and you have to make do with what you have. Use the resources provided like FRIEDA and if unsure call and check. The idea of “trust but verify” will be your friend in selected programs to apply to as a Comlex only applicant wanting to go university IM.

If you feel comfortable, post the universities where you got invites, will be helpful.

 

[AlteredScale]

If you feel comfortable, post the universities where you got invites, will be helpful.

Done

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Adding experience to hopefully help so other hopefully DOs wanting IM:

USMLE: none, not ideal and not planned
Comlex level 1: 632
Comlex level 2: 550 (ouch)
Comlex level 2 PE: pass first attempt
Clerkships: H in IM, P all others
Preclinical class rank: top quartile
Clinical class rank: top third

Research: additional research year, 10ish co author on accepted abstracts to national conferences in GI, cards, gen IM, Med Ed, three of them as first author. 3 co-author (2nd author for two of them) full manuscripts at time of ERAS submission, spent 3 months in lab of vice chair of research for university hospital nearby

ECs: admissions ambassador, tutor, officer for IM club, steering committee for local CCFA chapter event set up

Total apps sent: 58 (4-5 reach programs)

Rejections: 6 throughout cycle including MCW, Dartmouth, Albert Einstein (philly). Ghosted by a lot of west coast programs

Interview Invites: 16 total (University of Missouri Columbia and KC, Virginia Tech/Carillon, Geisinger, UCSF Fresno, KU, KU Wichita)

Matched: #1 (uni)

Tips: honestly, TAKE USMLE, if I had taken it that probably would have gotten me a better pull from uni programs. But alas sometimes thats not what happens and you have to make do with what you have. Use the resources provided like FRIEDA and if unsure call and check. The idea of “trust but verify” will be your friend in selected programs to apply to as a Comlex only applicant wanting to go university IM.

Do you think you could have gotten uni without that extra research year but with a USMLE step 1 and 2 CK scores?

 

[AlteredScale]

Do you think you could have gotten uni without that extra research year but with a USMLE step 1 and 2 CK scores?

Absolutely.

But, even if I had usmle I would have taken the research year because the goal in mind is to hopefully stay on the research side of things as long as possible.

 

[InternistDO]

Med School: Caribbean.
USMLE STEP 1: 232
STEP 2 CK: TBD
Class Rank: Bottom 10%.
Honors: Honors in psych/peds. Pass in obgyn and surg. (was 2 weeks into a medicine rotation before covid happened so no grade yet ).
Research: 2 journal pubs, and 1 case report and 1 poster. no first author in any of them. clinical. 3 cardio related, 1 ID related.
LOR: 2 solid ones. Looking to get more once i go back onto medicine rotation.
ECs: 1 Leadership role for 1 year, volunteering.

Red Flags: Took 5 months off for medical leave after finishing pre-clinicals which i also used to extend my dedicated period.

Studying my ass off for CK during this COVID break. Practice scores are in the 255- 260 range so far. Aiming to take it mid August. Then again, I was hitting 250s on UWSA/NBME assessments for Step 1, but got crushed cause of nerves.

I'm aiming to match into a Long Island, NY program or NYC. Looking to go into internal medicine. Been looking up stats for South Nassau, but it's a super new program. That would be the ideal program for me based on location. I could save a crazy amount of money living at home. I plan to apply to all the NYC/NJ img friendly programs. I know a 232/ bottom 10% brings me down a lot, but I'm hoping to pull through with the CK score.

Ultimately, I want to go into cardio.

If you want to go into cardio, I'd recommend against going to small, brand new programs like South Nassau and instead focus on programs that have a record of accepting Carib grads and putting them into cardio fellowship or have their own in house fellowship. Places like Mount Sinai St Lukes/West or NYP Queens in the NY area, or maybe Einstein in Philly if you're willing to be a bit further away. Obviously you should apply broadly and take whatever interviews you can get, but when it comes time to make your rank list you'll need to balance your desire to live at home and save money with the desire to do cardiology, which will be hard enough as a carib IMG (a group where only 50% of cardio applicants match).

 

[Meridian32]

Ugh, for real? Best I can do is low to mid tier programs? All cause of the DO thing? I knew it would be a bit of a handicap, but I thought working my ass off all through med school would change that.

UW (in Seattle) is a really strong program that occasionally takes DOs and has a couple on the current roster. I would apply there.

 

[InternistDO]

Thank you for the response! Do you know of any resource that shows specific Step scores for programs? Trying to get an idea of how competitive or how un-competitive I am for all these mount sinai programs and so many other ones (NYU winthrop, etc). I am aware a lot of them are img friendly, but just want to see how much a 232 makes a dent in my application.

It might be down right now but Residency Explorer has that data, as does Freida (though that might be less accurate). It takes time but looking at the actual residency websites and seeing where their graduates go for fellowship is also a good idea, especially for affiliate programs where the brand name sounds nice but the program may be subpar.

I can't imagine a 232 holding you back from NYP Queens, Downstate, Winthrop, or similar programs though.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Recently matched applicant here to offer advice!

About me: unranked state school in the northeast, 25X step 1, 26X step 2, AOA. Incredibly weak research. Matched to a top 10 program (and my number 1 choice!). Interviewed at ~13 of the top 20 programs (including 2 of the "big 4.") I was told last year (and on this thread I think), that "top tiers" were a reach for me.

What is the point of this post? To remind everyone that this thread can be over-critical. You're probably more competitive than you think. With this being said, here are some observations from this cycle from me and others at my institution:

-AOA seems to be the big divider for interviews coming from a low tier school. If everything is excellent about your app, but you don't have AOA, you can expect a few of the top 20 interview invites (coming from a low tier MD school at least), but much less than if you have AOA.
-Step 2 is very important (but still not as important as step 1).
-Don't underestimate clinical grades (third-year IM grade is particularly important).
-Don't underestimate leadership/volunteering (can be as important as research at a lot of the big names).
-List unique hobbies. These were the biggest talking points in my interviews.

Overall, I think the application process is much more holistic than I had originally thought. Certain strengths in your app can make up for weaknesses.

Good luck, and reach out with questions!

Agree with everything youre saying except volunteering. Since when is that important unless youre premed

 

[Funny_Current]

Looking for thoughts on where to apply and what my chances are. Want to stay on the east coast.

I'm in an East coast mid-tier MD program

Step 1: 211
Step 2: 235

M3 Clerkships:
Honors: IM, FM, Psych
High pass: Peds
Pass: OBGYN, Neuro
Pass in Surgery b/c of COVID:

Class rank:
Preclinical was P/F, but I think internally I was ranked at 50%
Clinical: I don't know yet

Activities:
Student Interest groups (SIG): president of radiology SIG, lesser roles in urology and military med SIGs, other small leadership activities
Student government: senator for med student government
Volunteer: Red Cross for many years, Medical Reserve Corps, American Heart Association committee member, AAMC learner feed back panel
tldr: nothing special

LORs: don't have any yet, but I know of 2 people who said they will write me strong letters. Haven't done AI yet, but I expect it to go well.

Other: no red flags, no disciplinary actions, no failures/repeats

*I am a **** test taker, always have been, and I know my scores are garbage. But, I do feel like I shine in the clinic based on feedback, IM honors, and the offers to write me strong LORs. I know this is going to be an uphill battle, but I also don't have aspirations to go to a top tier academic center. An IM residency at a respectable academic center in the southeast US would be fine with me.

Thank you all in advance.

 

[Splenda88]

@Funny_Current

Your chances are not great for U of Florida, U of South FL, Emory, Tulane, UAB, Vandy, UNC, Wake Forest, U of Virginia, and even U of Miami with that 211 step1. These are the 'respectable' academic centers in the southeast I can think of... However, you have a great chance to match at a good university program, but it might be a low tier. You might want to come up with a list of ~40 programs so people here can tell where you will have great shot at matching.

 

[deleted762362]

Sorry to repost, regarding specific program:

Med school rank: Low tier, South
USMLE Step 1: 246
USMLE Step 2: Anticipating 260s +
Class rank: Probably 3rd quartile
AOA: no
Honors: P in Medicine and Surgery, ObGYN, HP, Family, Pediatrics, Psych
Research: 5~ Pubs, one in high rank journal, posters and presentations
LOR: Working on them, one should be from strong academic center
EC: One unique, and a lot of volunteerwork, fundraising, tutoring, school club

Worried about my P in Medicine, was due to personal circumstances (family death)

My goal is Philly, ideally Temple or Jefferson, I have family there. Do you think I would have even a shot? Really nervous with the grade. Hoping my step 2 is higher (just took it)

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Looking for thoughts on where to apply and what my chances are. Want to stay on the east coast.

I'm in an East coast mid-tier MD program

Step 1: 211
Step 2: 235

M3 Clerkships:
Honors: IM, FM, Psych
High pass: Peds
Pass: OBGYN, Neuro
Pass in Surgery b/c of COVID:

Class rank:
Preclinical was P/F, but I think internally I was ranked at 50%
Clinical: I don't know yet

Activities:
Student Interest groups (SIG): president of radiology SIG, lesser roles in urology and military med SIGs, other small leadership activities
Student government: senator for med student government
Volunteer: Red Cross for many years, Medical Reserve Corps, American Heart Association committee member, AAMC learner feed back panel
tldr: nothing special

LORs: don't have any yet, but I know of 2 people who said they will write me strong letters. Haven't done AI yet, but I expect it to go well.

Other: no red flags, no disciplinary actions, no failures/repeats

*I am a **** test taker, always have been, and I know my scores are garbage. But, I do feel like I shine in the clinic based on feedback, IM honors, and the offers to write me strong LORs. I know this is going to be an uphill battle, but I also don't have aspirations to go to a top tier academic center. An IM residency at a respectable academic center in the southeast US would be fine with me.

Thank you all in advance.

Your step 1 score will very much limit you. Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, UVA, UNC are completely out of reach for you. MUSC, UF, and UAB are likely mega-reaches also. Reach programs include Wake, Tulane, and other programs of this caliber. More realistically, some of the FL programs, VCU, MCG, Louisville, Kentucky, UK, etc should be your targets. Apply broadly and good luck.

Sorry to repost, regarding specific program:

Med school rank: Low tier, South
USMLE Step 1: 246
USMLE Step 2: Anticipating 260s +
Class rank: Probably 3rd quartile
AOA: no
Honors: P in Medicine and Surgery, ObGYN, HP, Family, Pediatrics, Psych
Research: 5~ Pubs, one in high rank journal, posters and presentations
LOR: Working on them, one should be from strong academic center
EC: One unique, and a lot of volunteerwork, fundraising, tutoring, school club

Worried about my P in Medicine, was due to personal circumstances (family death)

My goal is Philly, ideally Temple or Jefferson, I have family there. Do you think I would have even a shot? Really nervous with the grade. Hoping my step 2 is higher (just took it)

Temple is realistic. Jefferson a reach. Einstein Philly and Cooper are other targets. Obviously Baltimore and NY are pretty close to Philly and you'll have a lot more programs to choose from.

 

[toxicmegacologne]

Sorry to repost, regarding specific program:

Med school rank: Low tier, South
USMLE Step 1: 246
USMLE Step 2: Anticipating 260s +
Class rank: Probably 3rd quartile
AOA: no
Honors: P in Medicine and Surgery, ObGYN, HP, Family, Pediatrics, Psych
Research: 5~ Pubs, one in high rank journal, posters and presentations
LOR: Working on them, one should be from strong academic center
EC: One unique, and a lot of volunteerwork, fundraising, tutoring, school club

Worried about my P in Medicine, was due to personal circumstances (family death)

My goal is Philly, ideally Temple or Jefferson, I have family there. Do you think I would have even a shot? Really nervous with the grade. Hoping my step 2 is higher (just took it)

Send a LOI to Temple and Jeff. You have a shot.

 

[deleted762362]

Send a LOI to Temple and Jeff. You have a shot.

Thank you Doc!!! Grateful for the advice! Wish you the best

Your step 1 score will very much limit you. Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, UVA, UNC are completely out of reach for you. MUSC, UF, and UAB are likely mega-reaches also. Reach programs include Wake, Tulane, and other programs of this caliber. More realistically, some of the FL programs, VCU, MCG, Louisville, Kentucky, UK, etc should be your targets. Apply broadly and good luck.



Temple is realistic. Jefferson a reach. Einstein Philly and Cooper are other targets. Obviously Baltimore and NY are pretty close to Philly and you'll have a lot more programs to choose from.

Thank you very much for the advice! Will heed what both of you suggest. Hoping for that good step 2 score. Wish you both the best.

 

[steadyhand]

DO
USMLE Step 1: 22x
USMLE Step 2: Anticipating >250
Class rank: 3rd quartile
AOA: no
Honors: H Surg; HP IM, OBGYN, Psych, Peds, FM
Research: 5 co-authors, 9 presentations
LOR: solid, not necessarily strong

What are my chances at academic/strong community programs in the west and Cali? Still have to get through VSAS this season and get more LORs as well. Thanks!

 

[HeisenbergIsTheGOAT]

Med school: Low tier MD in the Southeast
Step 1: 225
Step 2: Pending
Class Rank: 3rd quartile
Grades: Average
AOA: no
GHHS: yes
Research: 2 publications, 1 poster conference
LORs: anticipate them to be above average.

Tulane, Rutgers, UMD, Rush, Baylor, MUSC, Temple, Loyola, Ohio State, Carolinas Medical, USF, Tufts, Fairfax, Wake Forest, VCU, Case Western, Georgetown, UT-Nashville, George Washington, LSU, UF Gainesville, University of Louisville, UT-Houston, UT-Memphis, University of South Carolina, UT Austin. Cleveland Clinic, UT Chattanooga + Knoxville, Orlando Health

Can I get a feedback on my list so far if my end goal is wanting to end up in heme/onc?
And should my personal statement talk about why I want to go into heme/onc or general Internal medicine?

 

[gutonc]

Med school: Low tier MD in the Southeast
Step 1: 225
Step 2: Pending
Class Rank: 3rd quartile
Grades: Average
AOA: no
GHHS: yes
Research: 2 publications, 1 poster conference
LORs: anticipate them to be above average.

Tulane, Rutgers, UMD, Rush, Baylor, MUSC, Temple, Loyola, Ohio State, Carolinas Medical, USF, Tufts, Fairfax, Wake Forest, VCU, Case Western, Georgetown, UT-Nashville, George Washington, LSU, UF Gainesville, University of Louisville, UT-Houston, UT-Memphis, University of South Carolina, Case Western, UT Austin. Cleveland Clinic, UT Chattanooga + Knoxville, Orlando Health

Can I get a feedback on my list so far if my end goal is wanting to end up in heme/onc?
And should my personal statement talk about why I want to go into heme/onc or general Internal medicine?

Your list is a good mix of Sweet Spot and safety and only really one reach I can see in there. Can't hurt (anything other than your wallet) to apply to a few more reaches like UAB, Emory, Hopkins-Bayview, UNC, etc (based on your apparent geographic preferences).

As for the PS, you're applying for a job as an internal medicine resident, not as an oncology fellow. Write it accordingly. You can have 1-2 sentences about hem/onc, but that should not be your focus.

 

[AlteredScale]

DO
USMLE Step 1: 22x
USMLE Step 2: Anticipating >250
Class rank: 3rd quartile
AOA: no
Honors: H Surg; HP IM, OBGYN, Psych, Peds, FM
Research: 5 co-authors, 9 presentations
LOR: solid, not necessarily strong

What are my chances at academic/strong community programs in the west and Cali? Still have to get through VSAS this season and get more LORs as well. Thanks!

A few questions:
What are your level scores? Because those still matter and may matter even more with your lower Step 1 score.
Did you get SSP?
Where are your letters from? (university hospital?)
Do you have a focus on pursuing research since you have pretty high productivity? Do you have a letter from your research mentor if this is all form the same lab?

Programs worth applying to:
CA
Loma Linda, UC Irvine, UC Riverside/Davis (if from the region will help), UCLA Harbor, UCLA Olive, UCSF Fresno, Kaiser Permanente, Scripps Green and Mercy
PNW
Virginia Mason, Legacy Emmanuel, Providence, UW - Boise Idaho, Good Samaritan, Spokane Teaching Health Center

Apply to some of these but don't expect much response (because of step score and being DO):
OHSU, UW, UCSD, UCLA, UCSF, USC, Stanford, Cedars Sinai. You can possibly better your chances at these places by doing a Sub-I and landing a letter there.

 

[steadyhand]

A few questions:
What are your level scores? Because those still matter and may matter even more with your lower Step 1 score.
Did you get SSP?
Where are your letters from? (university hospital?)
Do you have a focus on pursuing research since you have pretty high productivity? Do you have a letter from your research mentor if this is all form the same lab?

Programs worth applying to:
CA
Loma Linda, UC Irvine, UC Riverside/Davis (if from the region will help), UCLA Harbor, UCLA Olive, UCSF Fresno, Kaiser Permanente, Scripps Green and Mercy
PNW
Virginia Mason, Legacy Emmanuel, Providence, UW - Boise Idaho, Good Samaritan, Spokane Teaching Health Center

Apply to some of these but don't expect much response (because of step score and being DO):
OHSU, UW, UCSD, UCLA, UCSF, USC, Stanford, Cedars Sinai. You can possibly better your chances at these places by doing a Sub-I and landing a letter there.

Thanks so much for the response! Will definitely keep those sites in mind
My Level was slightly better around 50th percentile (Step avg was 231 this year)
Did get SSP
Letters will most likely be from community hospitals (from those mentioned sites)
Had various mentors on different projects throughout med school, aiming to pursue research during residency, hopefully at an academic/university-affiliated program



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[AlteredScale]

Thanks so much for the response! Will definitely keep those sites in mind
My Level was slightly better around 50th percentile (Step avg was 231 this year)
Did get SSP
Letters will most likely be from community hospitals (from those mentioned sites)
Had various mentors on different projects throughout med school, aiming to pursue research during residency, hopefully at an academic/university-affiliated program



Sent from my iPhone using SDN

I think most of the places I suggested had cutoffs of step 1 > 220, so it should be fine.

Do you have any publications as of now?

 

[steadyhand]

I think most of the places I suggested had cutoffs of step 1 > 220, so it should be fine.

Do you have any publications as of now?

No first authors yet but 5 co-author manuscripts in basic science and clinical research. Planning to grind out a few more before ERAS too


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