Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[hemolysis12]

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You do have a shot at the Big 4 given your outstanding performance in medical school; it's a good indicator if your school has sent a handful of people to those programs in the past.

You'll get plenty of invites from that list. If you don't have any geographic restrictions, other good programs you can consider applying to are Columbia, Cornell, Mt. Sinai, Yale, UTSW, UCSF, Stanford, WUSTL, BIDMC among others

Agree. Add more.
Your only true reaches will be the Big 4 (aren't they always?).
You'll match well into ID from any program you'll match into.
H/O will be more choosey, but you'll still do just fine.

Thank you both for the advice. I'll definitely add some more of those programs. Should I add some more safeties? Are my safeties "safety" enough? I know this year is strange so I don't want to go in over-confident or anything. Thanks again!

 

[tumorlysissyndrome]

At least 10 of those programs (I used the "strikethrough" command are going to be donations to the ERAS holiday party fund. The rest are totally in your wheelhouse. Feel free to apply to the whole list, and I wouldn't spit out my coffee if you told me you got an interview at at least one of those 10, but don't hold your breath.

You have a fine app. But there's nothing outstanding about it. And those programs are looking for something outstanding, like Top 10 school + PhD + AOA, etc.

Thanks for the replies gutonc and adjet. I appreciate the honesty. Any recs for programs to add instead of donating to the eras party fund?

 

[benegesserit4]

School: Mid-tier Midwest MD
Step 1: 250-255
Step 2: 265-270
AOA: No
Rank: Top 20%
GHHS: No
Research: 1 first author pub, 1 2nd author pub, 1 first author editorial, several case reports & poster presentations
Clerkships: HP IM, Pass surgery, Honors everything else
EC's: ~6 volunteer experiences

Feel like lack of AOA and honors in IM will hold me back. Applying broadly except don't want East coast. Are there too many reaches and not enough targets here? Nervous about the bloodbath of applications this year

Baylor
Brown
CWRU
Duke
Emory
Mayo
Northwestern
Ohio State
OHSU
Rush
Tulane
UCLA
UAB
U of A
UC-Davis
UC Irvine
UCSD
U Chicago
UIC
U Iowa
U Michigan
U Minnesota
UNC
USC
UTSW
Utah
U Wash
UPMC
Vanderbilt
WashU
Wisconsin
Yale

 

[Adjet]

School: Mid-tier Midwest MD
Step 1: 250-255
Step 2: 265-270
AOA: No
Rank: Top 20%
GHHS: No
Research: 1 first author pub, 1 2nd author pub, 1 first author editorial, several case reports & poster presentations
Clerkships: HP IM, Pass surgery, Honors everything else
EC's: ~6 volunteer experiences

Feel like lack of AOA and honors in IM will hold me back. Applying broadly except don't want East coast. Are there too many reaches and not enough targets here? Nervous about the bloodbath of applications this year

Baylor
Brown
CWRU
Duke
Emory
Mayo
Northwestern
Ohio State
OHSU
Rush
Tulane
UCLA
UAB
U of A
UC-Davis
UC Irvine
UCSD
U Chicago
UIC
U Iowa
U Michigan
U Minnesota
UNC
USC
UTSW
Utah
U Wash
UPMC
Vanderbilt
WashU
Wisconsin
Yale

Unfortunately the non-honors and lack of AOA coming from a mid-tier school will significantly decrease your chances at a lot of the T20 programs despite good step scores, but your list seems appropriate given that. Of that list, WashU, Yale, Northwesten, UChicago, Duke, Michigan, UWashington, UCLA, Vanderbilt are clear reaches (you might get an invite from one of these programs in your region if lucky). UPMC, UNC, UTSW, UCSD, OHSU, Emory, Mayo are also reaches but less so (could get a few here, but def not guaranteed). The rest are target or safety of which you seem to have 15 or so (I would throw on Colorado). If you don't want east coast, you are missing out on a lot of a lot of solid mid-tier programs, but you should be able to match from the list you currently have.

 

[benegesserit4]

Unfortunately the non-honors and lack of AOA coming from a mid-tier school will significantly decrease your chances at a lot of the T20 programs despite good step scores, but your list seems appropriate given that. Of that list, WashU, Yale, Northwesten, UChicago, Duke, Michigan, UWashington, UCLA, Vanderbilt are clear reaches (you might get an invite from one of these programs in your region if lucky). UPMC, UNC, UTSW, UCSD, OHSU, Emory, Mayo are also reaches but less so (could get a few here, but def not guaranteed). The rest are target or safety of which you seem to have 15 or so (I would throw on Colorado). If you don't want east coast, you are missing out on a lot of a lot of solid mid-tier programs, but you should be able to match from the list you currently have.

thanks for the insight! What are some target East coast programs for my application? I really don’t know much about them. Appreciate the help!

 

[Adjet]

@benegesserit4 UVA, BU, UMD, Einstein/Monte, Jefferson, Temple, Brown are some solid mid-tier options you are qualified for. If you don't want to live in any of those areas though, you'll be fine if you didn't want to apply.

 

[merlinnus66]

Seeing a lot of these crazy 250+ numbers thrown out there lol

School: NE Mid-Tier
Step 1: 218
Step 2: 235
AOA: No
GHHS: No
Research: 1 poster, 3 publications
Clerkships: HP IM and Neurology, P - FM, OB, Psych, Covid Pass Surgery and Pediatrics; Sub-I also Covid pass
EC's: Plenty of leaderships

How do I even begin going about looking for lists? I was told by advisors that it's a pretty sizable jump from 1->2 and that our school has a pretty great match list. Idk, am I still in the mid-tier lists (and where do I find said mid-tier names?).

I'll do my own due diligence in searching as well, but hoping y'all could help me get started!

 

[disorder]

Seeing a lot of these crazy 250+ numbers thrown out there lol

School: NE Mid-Tier
Step 1: 218
Step 2: 235
AOA: No
GHHS: No
Research: 1 poster, 3 publications
Clerkships: HP IM and Neurology, P - FM, OB, Psych, Covid Pass Surgery and Pediatrics; Sub-I also Covid pass
EC's: Plenty of leaderships

How do I even begin going about looking for lists? I was told by advisors that it's a pretty sizable jump from 1->2 and that our school has a pretty great match list. Idk, am I still in the mid-tier lists (and where do I find said mid-tier names?).

I'll do my own due diligence in searching as well, but hoping y'all could help me get started!

Do your homework, come up with a list like the rest of them.
Your step 1 and lack of H in medicine will get you filtered out of a lot of places, unfortunately.

Apply broadly!

 

[Adjet]

Seeing a lot of these crazy 250+ numbers thrown out there lol

School: NE Mid-Tier
Step 1: 218
Step 2: 235
AOA: No
GHHS: No
Research: 1 poster, 3 publications
Clerkships: HP IM and Neurology, P - FM, OB, Psych, Covid Pass Surgery and Pediatrics; Sub-I also Covid pass
EC's: Plenty of leaderships

How do I even begin going about looking for lists? I was told by advisors that it's a pretty sizable jump from 1->2 and that our school has a pretty great match list. Idk, am I still in the mid-tier lists (and where do I find said mid-tier names?).

I'll do my own due diligence in searching as well, but hoping y'all could help me get started!

Almost every medical school has an affiliated hospital with an internal medicine residency program so I would start there

 

[Deecee2DO]

Unfortunately the non-honors and lack of AOA coming from a mid-tier school will significantly decrease your chances at a lot of the T20 programs despite good step scores, but your list seems appropriate given that. Of that list, WashU, Yale, Northwesten, UChicago, Duke, Michigan, UWashington, UCLA, Vanderbilt are clear reaches (you might get an invite from one of these programs in your region if lucky). UPMC, UNC, UTSW, UCSD, OHSU, Emory, Mayo are also reaches but less so (could get a few here, but def not guaranteed). The rest are target or safety of which you seem to have 15 or so (I would throw on Colorado). If you don't want east coast, you are missing out on a lot of a lot of solid mid-tier programs, but you should be able to match from the list you currently have.

Yales a reach? I was under the impression Yale IM doesnt quite have the same reputation that its medical school has. Its certainly a great program but not in the same league as the other programs you listed it with. I always thought it was (upper) mid-tier not top tier but maybe I’m wrong

 

[Adjet]

Yales a reach? I was under the impression Yale IM doesnt quite have the same reputation that its medical school has. Its certainly a great program but not in the same league as the other programs you listed it with. I always thought it was (upper) mid-tier not top tier but maybe I’m wrong

It may be slightly less competitive than the others due to location, but their fellowship match list is right up there with other 'top tier' IM programs.

 

[Adjet]

School: Mid-tier MD in NE
Step 1: mid 240's
Step 2: high 250's
AOA: No
Rank: No ranking
GHHS: No
Research: several poster presentations, 1 x middle author pub in basic sciences from undergrad
Clerkships: 3/6 honors (including IM and surgery), rest high pass
EC's: Scattered volunteering and mentoring w/ unique COVID experience (research, administration, educational component).

After reading the profiles from above, I see that Top 20 is likely off the table for me (correct me though if I'm wrong). My dream still would be a name-brand program that will have similar fellowship prospects.


Questions:

How do my prospects look for programs like UVA, BU, Einstein/Monte, Brown, Dartmouth, Rochester, Tufts, etc?

Also, should I consider adding community programs?

You should be in excellent shape for all of those. With decent scores and clinical grades I don't think top 20 is necessarily out of the question, even though you're not AOA and come from a mid-tier school. Some of it will depend on where your school has sent non-aoa people in the past but stuff along the lines of BIDMC, UPMC, UTSW, Emory, UNC, NYU etc. are within reach and maybe a few 'better' programs bite

 

[johnpablo85]

School: California DO

Step 1: 250+
Step 2: 260+
AOA: n/a
GHHS: No
Research: 1 poster presentation
Clerkships: Honors in IM, surgery, psych
LORS: 2 SubI, 1 Chair, 1 3rd year IM, 1 3rd year surgery

Hoping for a SoCal program with a chance at doing Heme-One in the future.

Reach:
UCSD
Cedars Sinai
Kaiser LA
USC/LAC

Target:
UCI
Scripps Green
Scripps Mercy
Loma Linda
UCR
Huntington Memorial
UCLA Olive View
UCSF Fresno

Other:
Adventist White Memorial
Community Memorial Ventura
Desert Regional
Eisenhower
Riverside Community
Santa Barbara Cottage
West Anaheim
OPTI West Long Beach
San Ysidro

Hey guys I'm back again, after doing some more research on fellowship prospects and maybe rethinking my priorities I am wondering what my chances are for some programs outside of California.

UArizona Tuscon
UArizona Phoenix

UMiami Jackson Memorial
University of South Florida
UFlorida Gainesville
UFlorida Jacksonville

Texas A&M Scott and White Temple
UT San Antonio
Methodist Houston

Thanks!

 

[AlteredScale]

Hey guys I'm back again, after doing some more research on fellowship prospects and maybe rethinking my priorities I am wondering what my chances are for some programs outside of California.

UArizona Tuscon
UArizona Phoenix

UMiami Jackson Memorial
University of South Florida
UFlorida Gainesville
UFlorida Jacksonville

Texas A&M Scott and White Temple
UT San Antonio
Methodist Houston

Thanks!

These are all solid programs to add to your list. Since your shooting down south I Would consider adding UT Houston, UTMB, UNLV, LSU-NOLA, UT-Memphis.

 

[johnpablo85]

These are all solid programs to add to your list. Since your shooting down south I Would consider adding UT Houston, UTMB, UNLV, LSU-NOLA, UT-Memphis.

Thanks as always for the input AlteredScale, I will likely be adding all of these to my list.

Any idea which programs are reach or target for me?

I think the UMiami is a reach but I'm not sure about the other programs

 

[AlteredScale]

Thanks as always for the input AlteredScale, I will likely be adding all of these to my list.

Any idea which programs are reach or target for me?

I think the UMiami is a reach but I'm not sure about the other programs

UMiami Jackson seems to have a good handful of DOs per class. So I would say you have a solid chance there. The other programs are just fine for your application.

 

[johnpablo85]

UMiami Jackson seems to have a good handful of DOs per class. So I would say you have a solid chance there. The other programs are just fine for your application.

Thanks altered scale, I'm hoping to minimize donations to the eras party fund.

 

[teeshake]

School: Non US IMG
Step 1: 252
Step 2: 267
Step 2 CS: Was canceled due to covid, so applying thru the pathways. Application for pathways hasn't been submitted yet by me as my OET exam got postponed to the end of this month due to covid, again. So no Step 2 CS equivalent on my app either when I apply.
AOA: No
Class rank: top quartile
GHHS: No
Research: 2 research abstracts (1 published in a major US subspecialty journal, 1 presented at an international conference)
Clerkships: 3 months USCE, 1 US LoR, waiting on 2nd US LoR

Do I have a shot at any low-tier university based programs? I should be grateful to match anywhere tbh considering my situation, but still would like to know.

 

[Blue29]

School: Top 40
Step 1: 255-260
Step 2: 255-260
AOA: No
GHHS: No
Class rank: unranked
Research: 1 IM case report, 1 1st author review paper, 1 oral presentation, 1 poster presentation, 1 published abstract
Clerkships: H in IM, HP in surgery & neuro, P in Ob/Gyn, FM, Psych, (great comments from rotations on MSPE, although no honors)
ECs: numerous teaching/mentoring experiences in undergrad and med school
LORs: Hoping for great IM Chair letter, one IM faculty, one PCCM on AI

Aiming for a Cardiology fellowship (or slight possibility of PCCM). Left off DC, Chicago, some Ohio, Pennsylvania, NYC, Boston, Cali (west coast), and Louisiana programs due to either high COL or location unless someone has other advice/impressions. Not sure if the tiers are correct for my stats - appreciate any feedback.

Reach:
Emory
CCF
JHH
Michigan
Mayo
Wash U
Duke
Ohio State
Vandy
BCOM
UTSW
Wisconsin

Target:
Colorado
UAB
UF
U Miami - Jackson
Indiana
Iowa
Maryland
Minnesota
Dartmouth
UNC
CWRU
UTHSC - Memphis
Utah
UVA
Nebraska
UT Houston

Safety:
Wake Forest
Tulane
VCU
USF
Louisville
UK
LSU??? Which programs?
South Alabama
Mississippi
MUSC
UT Chattanooga
UT Knoxville

 

[disorder]

School: Top 40
Step 1: 255-260
Step 2: 255-260
AOA: No
GHHS: No
Class rank: unranked
Research: 1 IM case report, 1 1st author review paper, 1 oral presentation, 1 poster presentation, 1 published abstract
Clerkships: H in IM, HP in surgery & neuro, P in Ob/Gyn, FM, Psych, (great comments from rotations on MSPE, although no honors)
ECs: numerous teaching/mentoring experiences in undergrad and med school
LORs: Hoping for great IM Chair letter, one IM faculty, one PCCM on AI

Aiming for a Cardiology fellowship (or slight possibility of PCCM). Left off DC, Chicago, some Ohio, Pennsylvania, NYC, Boston, Cali (west coast), and Louisiana programs due to either high COL or location unless someone has other advice/impressions. Not sure if the tiers are correct for my stats - appreciate any feedback.

Reasonable list if avoiding said geographic areas.
I know very little about the south.

Reach:
Emory maybe
CCF yes
JHH no
Michigan yes
Mayo maybe
Wash U maybe
Duke no
Ohio State yes
Vandy yes
BCOM yes
UTSW maybe
Wisconsin yes

Target:
Colorado yes
UAB yes
UF yes
U Miami - Jackson yes
Indiana yes
Iowa yes
Maryland yes
Minnesota yes
Dartmouth yes
UNC maybe
CWRU yes
UTHSC - Memphis yes
Utah yes
UVA yes
Nebraska yes
UT Houston yes

Safety: yes to all
Wake Forest
Tulane
VCU
USF
Louisville
UK
LSU??? Which programs?
South Alabama
Mississippi
MUSC
UT Chattanooga
UT Knoxville

 

[Blue29]

Thanks! Could you elaborate on which programs stand out for cardiology? Specifically of the target/safety ones?

 

[disorder]

Thanks! Could you elaborate on which programs stand out for cardiology? Specifically of the target/safety ones?

Check the match lists, that should give you a good idea.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

DO student
Step 1: low 240s
Step 2: low 220s
COMLEXs: who cares lol
LORs: will be average quality
ECs: nothing outstanding, I have a few pubs before med school

No idea what to apply to -- would like to do fellowship in PCCM or at least keep my options open. So I think low-tier university programs or community programs with in-house fellowships should be my priority? I'm pretty upset at my Step 2 score but I took the exam in suboptimal conditions (will briefly address in PS). Not really sure how my app will be perceived score-wise.

Anyways, any advice is welcome and thank you!

 

[AlteredScale]

DO student
Step 1: low 240s
Step 2: low 220s
COMLEXs: who cares lol
LORs: will be average quality
ECs: nothing outstanding, I have a few pubs before med school

No idea what to apply to -- would like to do fellowship in PCCM or at least keep my options open. So I think low-tier university programs or community programs with in-house fellowships should be my priority? I'm pretty upset at my Step 2 score but I took the exam in suboptimal conditions (will briefly address in PS). Not really sure how my app will be perceived score-wise.

Anyways, any advice is welcome and thank you!

Give us a list of what ur thinking g and we can better help you.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Give us a list of what ur thinking g and we can better help you.

To be honest, I don't really have a focused list. I intend to apply broadly especially since I am not geographically limited. I guess I was more interested in a snapshot in terms of any specific programs? I worry I am DOA at a lot of university or university-affiliated community programs. I don't have much to go off other than my alumni list which will guide my apps of course. But that being said, off the top of my head:

UF-Jax
UCF Osceola
UConn
Baystate
VCU
St. Luke's
RowanSOM
Allegheny
University of Buffalo
Aria Health
Augusta Health
St Luke's
University of Louisville
Wayne State
Henry Ford
Summa Health

Open to more suggestions...

 

[AlteredScale]

To be honest, I don't really have a focused list. I intend to apply broadly especially since I am not geographically limited. I guess I was more interested in a snapshot in terms of any specific programs? I worry I am DOA at a lot of university or university-affiliated community programs. I don't have much to go off other than my alumni list which will guide my apps of course. But that being said, off the top of my head:

UF-Jax
UCF Osceola
UConn
Baystate
VCU
St. Luke's
RowanSOM
Allegheny
University of Buffalo
Aria Health
Augusta Health
St Luke's
University of Louisville
Wayne State
Henry Ford
Summa Health

Open to more suggestions...

Ur app isn’t DOA. The drop
Isnt good but it’s not something I would say is a “don’t waste your money applying” sort of tactic here.

Those programs look fine. I’m not sure about your chances at VCU, UB, and Wayne Statte. Is there a specific region you are interested in?

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Ur app isn’t DOA. The drop
Isnt good but it’s not something I would say is a “don’t waste your money applying” sort of tactic here.

Those programs look fine. I’m not sure about your chances at VCU, UB, and Wayne Statte. Is there a specific region you are interested in?

No -- I am completely okay going anywhere. I'm from FL if that changes anything (perhaps regional connections will matter more this year than in years' past idk?) and did my first two years of medical school in PA.

I listed UB and Wayne because IIRC they are IMG/DO heavy (or as heavy as a university program can be).

 

[rushmountmore]

School: Southern DO
Step 1: 252
Step 2: 253
COMLEX1: 626 COMLEX2: 653
Rank: top quarter
Research: 1 poster, no publications
EC's: standard stuff nothing exciting
LORs: IM letter from community hospital residency program director, IM outpatient letter, EM letter from ED director
Goals: Not really seeking any fellowships as of now, planning to work as a hospitalist or outpatient IM practice.

Looking to match in FL for family reasons, ideally would like to try for USF, UF or Miami. Applying to pretty much every other IM program in the state excluding most HCA programs and some of the south FL programs like Larkin. Gonna throw some applications to more university programs out of state like Wake, MUSC, OSU. Any other suggestions for similar programs to look at? Appreciate the feedback!

 

[disorder]

DO student from NYC. Some research experience from major university in Philly, no pub. A considerable amount of volunteer experience, pretty unique experiences.
We are given letter grades for rotations, I had all A's during third year. Class rank likely in the 50th to 75th percentile for preclinical grades. Not sure how third year grades change my rank.

Step 1 208 Level 1 497
Step 2 234 Level 2 584

Would like to be close to NYC for residency. Strong ties to New Jersey as well. My school is in Florida so I have some connections there also. Long term goal is heme onc or GI

Programs I am interested in: NJMS, Stony Brook, Downstate, NYMC, Lenox Hill, St Lukes Roosevelt, NYU Winthrop, Staten Island University Hospital, Hackensack University Medical Center, Morristown Medical Center, Einstein Philly, Lankenau, Atlantic Health, Christiana Care, Westchester, UConn, Greenwich, Kent, Lehigh valley, St.Lukes, Lahey, Allegheny, Mt. Auburn, Albany, Baystate, Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami, UMiami Jackson, UMiami JFK, UF Jax, UF, USF

I am open to programs in other parts of the country, however I have a preference for being close to the east coast. I'm not sure what programs I can be competitive for so the list is relatively short and lacking. Are there university programs that are worth applying to for me? I know my step 1 will filter me out of most programs in general but maybe someone can share some wisdom.

DO, low step 1, no pubs. It's gonna be really tough at any university program. You may have luck with affiliated programs.
You should literally apply to ALL NJ and NYC programs if location is most important.
As far as other programs in the country, look at your match list and start there.

 

[dinomite00]

School: Mid-tier Northeast MD
Step 1: 240-245
Step 2: 270-275
AOA: No
Rank: Top 20%
GHHS: No
Research: 1 pub (not first author), several poster and oral presentations
Clerkships: Honors on everything except OB (HP)
EC's: 2 work experiences and ~ 5 volunteering experiences
Letters: strong

1. NJMS
2. RWJ
3. Sinai
4. Cornell
5. Columbia
6. NYU
7. Northwell Hofstra
8. Einstein
9. Jefferson
10. Temple
11. UPenn
12. GW
13. Georgetown
14. Tufts
15. BU
16. BWH
17. BI
18. MGH
19. Brown
20. Vanderbilt
21. Duke
22. Emory
23. Wash u in St. Louis
24. Yale
25. Univ of Pittsburgh
26. Hopkins
27. UTSW
28. Baylor
29. University of MD
30. UChicago
31. Northwestern

 

[gutonc]

School: Mid-tier Northeast MD
Step 1: 240-245
Step 2: 270-275
AOA: No
Rank: Top 20%
GHHS: No
Research: 1 pub (not first author), several poster and oral presentations
Clerkships: Honors on everything except OB (HP)
EC's: 2 work experiences and ~ 5 volunteering experiences
Letters: strong

1. NJMS
2. RWJ
3. Sinai
4. Cornell
5. Columbia
6. NYU
7. Northwell Hofstra
8. Einstein
9. Jefferson
10. Temple
11. UPenn
12. GW
13. Georgetown
14. Tufts
15. BU
16. BWH
17. BI
18. MGH
19. Brown
20. Vanderbilt
21. Duke
22. Emory
23. Wash u in St. Louis
24. Yale
25. Univ of Pittsburgh
26. Hopkins
27. UTSW
28. Baylor
29. University of MD
30. UChicago
31. Northwestern

Is there a question here? You'll match. Hopefully before you get to the crappy programs in your 20-31 range. What a sad day that will be for you.

 

[dinomite00]

Is there a question here? You'll match. Hopefully before you get to the crappy programs in your 20-31 range. What a sad day that will be for you.

Sorry should have been more clear, question is whether I’m too top heavy or I should apply to more lower tier programs. Just haven’t gotten any clear direction on where I’d be competitive and what programs I should be shooting for :/

 

[whoknows2012]

Sorry should have been more clear, question is whether I’m too top heavy or I should apply to more lower tier programs. Just haven’t gotten any clear direction on where I’d be competitive and what programs I should be shooting for :/

you don’t have the “it” factor for the top tier programs though wouldn’t be surprised if you got some interviews at for example a Sinai or Cornell BIDMC vandy, etc. But I had similar stats to you (step 2 260 not 270+) but didn’t even get an IV at the top tier programs and matched at my number 1, Monte. So I expect the caliber of programs including BU UMD Monte, Jeff, etc would be in your wheelhouse. You also have a lot of non-northeast programs that are highly ranked and your chances of interviewing there are less certain. Id think more likely than the nyc northeast topprograms (like UPenn and Hopkins) but still not a guarantee

 

[whoknows2012]

What is this “it” factor btw? I go to a Top 30 and half my class end up matching Top 20. Doubt they all have an “it” factor, but likely all got good clinical grades.

going to a top school is one of them...
PhD
AOA
1st author nature publication

 

[dinomite00]

going to a top school is one of them...
PhD
AOA
1st author nature publication

hey thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it! Yeah I agree I don’t have one of those I was nominated for AOA twice but didn’t get it (shady process tbh) so can’t change anything there. Did what I couldso gotta make the most of what I have on my app at this point :/

 

[whoknows2012]

hey thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it! Yeah I agree I don’t have one of those I was nominated for AOA twice but didn’t get it (shady process tbh) so can’t change anything there. Did what I couldso gotta make the most of what I have on my app at this point :/

you’ll match well that’s all that matters. Can’t dwell on things you can’t change

 

[Adjet]

School: Mid-tier Northeast MD
Step 1: 240-245
Step 2: 270-275
AOA: No
Rank: Top 20%
GHHS: No
Research: 1 pub (not first author), several poster and oral presentations
Clerkships: Honors on everything except OB (HP)
EC's: 2 work experiences and ~ 5 volunteering experiences
Letters: strong

1. NJMS
2. RWJ
3. Sinai
4. Cornell
5. Columbia
6. NYU
7. Northwell Hofstra
8. Einstein
9. Jefferson
10. Temple
11. UPenn
12. GW
13. Georgetown
14. Tufts
15. BU
16. BWH
17. BI
18. MGH
19. Brown
20. Vanderbilt
21. Duke
22. Emory
23. Wash u in St. Louis
24. Yale
25. Univ of Pittsburgh
26. Hopkins
27. UTSW
28. Baylor
29. University of MD
30. UChicago
31. Northwestern

Scores and clinical grades are solid, but no AOA from a mid-tier school does make it tough to crack into elite programs as @whoknows2012 mentions. Would say programs like NW, Chicago, Hopkins, BWG/MGH, Columbia, Duke, Penn are reaches. Places like Sinai, NYU, WashU, Cornell, BIDMC, Yale, UTSW, Emory, UPMC, Vandy, Baylor are more realistic programs where you might be able to nab some interviews. The rest of the ~12 programs you should be well qualified for so you should get enough invites to match. Will say though that this year even more people are going over-apply and thus you may not get some invites that you were expecting based on previous years.

 

[disorder]

you don’t have the “it” factor for the top tier programs though wouldn’t be surprised if you got some interviews at for example a Sinai or Cornell BIDMC vandy, etc. But I had similar stats to you (step 2 260 not 270+) but didn’t even get an IV at the top tier programs and matched at my number 1, Monte. So I expect the caliber of programs including BU UMD Monte, Jeff, etc would be in your wheelhouse. You also have a lot of non-northeast programs that are highly ranked and your chances of interviewing there are less certain. Id think more likely than the nyc northeast topprograms (like UPenn and Hopkins) but still not a guarantee

Damn, medicine has become a blood bath. A lot has changed in 8 years.

 

[MedstudenttoIMres]

Looking at the first poster in this thread compared to now is incredible. In 5 years has every program really become that much more competitive? Step 1 averages have only increased by a few points, what has changed?

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Looking at the first poster in this thread compared to now is incredible. In 5 years has every program really become that much more competitive? Step 1 averages have only increased by a few points, what has changed?

Number of medical students increased by ~15%. Number of spots in the Top 20 have increased by zero (although a bunch of lower tier IM residencies have been added to take in the surplus)

 

[whoknows2012]

The top of IM has always been incredibly competitive. At least for the last decade where I have had direct experience. The only people this has not been obvious to were applicants coming from top medical schools where that alone is many times enough to guarantee a spot at a t~20 IM program.

 

[disorder]

The top of IM has always been incredibly competitive. At least for the last decade where I have had direct experience. The only people this has not been obvious to were applicants coming from top medical schools where that alone is many times enough to guarantee a spot at a t~20 IM program.

Yup. And those top medical schools like to take those from top colleges...

 

[IM_throwaway_1234]

School: Low?-tier MD in midwest. Idk, its a new school but previous classes matched pretty well.
Step 1: 256
Step 2: 269
AOA: No
Rank: Top 25%
GHHS: No
Research: 1 pub, 1 poster
Clerkships: Mostly honors. IM during COVID was graded as pass/fail, but smoked the Shelf
EC's: a few work experiences, and a few volunteering experiences with evidence of leadership. Probably average overall
Letters: think they will be strong from IM attendings I rounded with

*I have no geographical limitations and will be applying broadly. Have aspirations for fellowship, maybe GI. Is my list appropriate? Any other programs I should consider? My concern would be that my list is too top-heavy coming from a new "low-tier" school.
Reach:
BWH
MGH
Duke
Hopkins
UCSF

Target (a few might be reaches, idk):
Beaumont Royal Oak
BIDMC
Boston University
Brown
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic
DMC/Wayne State
Emory
Henry Ford/Wayne State
Mt Sinai
Indiana
Loyola
Mayo (Arizona)
Mayo (Rochester)
Northwestern
Columbia
Cornell
NYU
Ohio State
UPenn
Rush
Spectrum Health
UCLA
Stanford
UCSD
U Chicago
U of Michigan
UW
Wisco
Vandy
Yale

 

[whoknows2012]

School: Low?-tier MD in midwest. Idk, its a new school but previous classes matched pretty well.
Step 1: 256
Step 2: 269
AOA: No
Rank: Top 25%
GHHS: No
Research: 1 pub, 1 poster
Clerkships: Mostly honors. IM during COVID was graded as pass/fail, but smoked the Shelf
EC's: a few work experiences, and a few volunteering experiences with evidence of leadership. Probably average overall
Letters: think they will be strong from IM attendings I rounded with

*I have no geographical limitations and will be applying broadly. Have aspirations for fellowship, maybe GI. Is my list appropriate? Any other programs I should consider? My concern would be that my list is too top-heavy coming from a new "low-tier" school.
Reach:
BWH
MGH
Duke
Hopkins
UCSF

Target (a few might be reaches, idk):
Beaumont Royal Oak
BIDMC
Boston University
Brown
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic
DMC/Wayne State
Emory
Henry Ford/Wayne State
Mt Sinai
Indiana
Loyola
Mayo (Arizona)
Mayo (Rochester)
Northwestern
Columbia
Cornell
NYU
Ohio State
UPenn
Rush
Spectrum Health
UCLA
Stanford
UCSD
U Chicago
U of Michigan
UW
Wisco
Vandy
Yale

this might come off as harsh but there are about 10 programs on your target list that should be in the reach category including NW BIDMC Sinai Columbia Cornell vandy umich Stanford UPenn Etc. you have very good board scores good grades but no AOA, research that isn’t setting you apart from the crowd. I think you need to be more realistic in your expectations. That being said especially in the non westcoast non northeast highly ranked programs I do expect you do get some interviews, so you’ll absolutely match well, but make sure you know where you stand first...

 

[IM_throwaway_1234]

this might come off as harsh but there are about 10 programs on your target list that should be in the reach category including NW BIDMC Sinai Columbia Cornell vandy umich Stanford UPenn Etc. you have very good board scores good grades but no AOA, research that isn’t setting you apart from the crowd. I think you need to be more realistic in your expectations. That being said especially in the non westcoast non northeast highly ranked programs I do expect you do get some interviews, so you’ll absolutely match well, but make sure you know where you stand first...

Thanks I appreciate that, I kind of figured that there were some reaches in the target section. Do you think I have enough true target programs?

 

[Adjet]

Thanks I appreciate that, I kind of figured that there were some reaches in the target section. Do you think I have enough true target programs?

No AOA coming from a relatively unknown med school will knock you out of contention at a lot of programs despite good scores/grades. From your list, you should be well qualified for Beaumont Royal Oak, Boston University, Brown, Case Western, Cleveland Clinic, DMC/Wayne State, Henry Ford/Wayne State, Indiana, Loyola, Mayo (Arizona), Ohio State, Rush, Spectrum Health, Wisco, UCSD, Emory (these last two borderline reach/target). So enough to match I think.

 

[aCellsLife]

Reading this thread is a little depressing, as a lowly uninitiated M3. About half of the graduates at my coastal mid-tier school end up at top 20s for IM. I doubt all of them have AOA. Some have even had 230s in the last 5 years and have matched in the top tier. While my school doesn't match at a diverse range of top 20s, there are some on the same coast that consistently take 1 or more students from my school. I think the idea that you're limited by costal top tier programs just because you're not AOA or at a top 20 may be an oversimplification.

I know people commenting here have real-world experience so I understand I might be wrong. This system just seems very flawed. I received 9 interviews at top 30 med schools but fell short / didn't attend all of them. Assuming I do well on the rest of my steps/rotations, it seems silly to prioritize AOA membership or top school attendance, which in my opinion can involve more luck than grades or scores.

 

[Adjet]

Reading this thread is a little depressing, as a lowly uninitiated M3. About half of the graduates at my coastal mid-tier school end up at top 20s for IM. I doubt all of them have AOA. Some have even had 230s in the last 5 years and have matched in the top tier. While my school doesn't match at a diverse range of top 20s, there are some on the same coast that consistently take 1 or more students from my school. I think the idea that you're limited by costal top tier programs just because you're not AOA or at a top 20 may be an oversimplification.

I know people commenting here have real-world experience so I understand I might be wrong. This system just seems very flawed. I received 9 interviews at top 30 med schools but fell short / didn't attend all of them. Assuming I do well on the rest of my steps/rotations, it seems silly to prioritize AOA membership or top school attendance, which in my opinion can involve more luck than grades or scores.

I think you're probably referring to me so I'll comment.

a) I doubt your school is considered 'mid-tier' if half the IM people end up in top 20 programs. A true mid tier place typically sends ~20-40% of students to 'top 30' IM programs in any given year. You can look this up for yourself - pull up match lists from the full spectrum of med schools and you'll notice a clear trend regarding the perceived med school reputation and where people end up.
b) Agree, if non-AOA and not at a top school, you still very much have the opportunity to match at a top 20 program, but scores, grades, EC/research/letters should be solid. Regional/historical ties between a program and a med school are very much a thing as you suggest. If you want to break out of your region to go to an elite program cards are stacked against you though.
c)Yes AOA and med school rankings can be arbitrary and a flawed way to evaluate applications, but time shows that PDs care about this. Again you can do your own research and pull up resident rosters from top programs. It sucks, but it's hard to blame them at the same time. If you have two equally strong applications, but one comes from a top tier med school and one comes from a low tier one, who would you tend to invite? Same with AOA vs non-AOA. Overall, I tend to think it's better to prepare for the less than ideal outcome.

 

[aCellsLife]

I think you're probably referring to me so I'll comment.

a) I doubt your school is considered 'mid-tier' if half the IM people end up in top 20 programs. A true mid tier place typically sends ~20-40% of students to 'top 30' IM programs in any given year. You can look this up for yourself - pull up match lists from the full spectrum of med schools and you'll notice a clear trend regarding the perceived med school reputation and where people end up.
b) Agree, if non-AOA and not at a top school, you still very much have the opportunity to match at a top 20 program, but scores, grades, EC/research/letters should be solid. Regional/historical ties between a program and a med school are very much a thing as you suggest. If you want to break out of your region to go to an elite program cards are stacked against you though.
c)Yes AOA and med school rankings can be arbitrary and a flawed way to evaluate applications, but time shows that PDs care about this. Again you can do your own research and pull up resident rosters from top programs. It sucks, but it's hard to blame them at the same time. If you have two equally strong applications, but one comes from a top tier med school and one comes from a low tier one, who would you tend to invite? Same with AOA vs non-AOA. Overall, I tend to think it's better to prepare for the less than ideal outcome.

I actually agree with almost all of this. I was more referring to the other poster's claim that coastal or east coastal top institutions are almost "out of one's league" if you're not AOA or come from top 20. If anything, I can match best at the institutions that are regionally close to me, on my coast. Institutional ties for these residencies are real and extend beyond top 20 med schools as you said. Without giving too many specifics, my school is ranked 40-60th.

 

[spicynuggetfiend]

Here goes nothing.

School: Low-tier MD, west of the Mississippi river
Step 1: Around 260
Step 2: Around 250 (no idea what happened here, tbh. practice scores were 255+)
AOA: No
Rank: Top 1/3
Research: 1 second-author publication, 3 posters, 2 talks at regional conferences
Clerkships: Honors in everything (including IM and surgery), except psychiatry (HP)
EC's: Lots of teaching (includes part of the wellness curriculum) and decent volunteering.
Letters: Three IM faculty (including the PD and APD).
Other: Lots of family in California, including a sibling whose a non-IM resident at a big name program

My school list...
Longshots: Stanford, BID/MGH/B&W, Columbia, Cornell, UPenn, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UChicago
Reasonable reaches: UCLA, UCSD, LA+USC, Cedars, Boston, Tufts, NYU, UTSW, Baylor, Mt Sinai, UPMC, OHSU
Targets: UCI, Rush, Jefferson, Loyola Chicago, UA-Tuscon, Mayo AZ, Loma Linda, Houston Methodist, UT Houston
Safeties: Bunch of community programs out west

Kinda worried if the disconnect between my step 1 and step 2's gonna hurt me. I appreciate any advice/feedback