Forum Members *~*~*~*~Official Pre-Allo Social Thread~*~*~*~*

Started by mmmcdowe
BU Medical Sciences
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Agent B said:
Then eliminate L, B and G, and form a TQ society!
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separatism never seems to be a sustainable political movement.
plus queers and transgendered people don't have any more in common than lesbians and gays do, no real reason from us to strip away from the rest of the group (also the fact that all of us combined make up such a small percentage of the population splitting off from straights isn't even the best idea)
 
touchpause13 said:
wikipedia: Androgyny is a term derived from the Greek words ανήρ, stem ανδρ- (anér, andr-, meaning man) and γυνή (gyné, meaning woman), referring to the combination of masculine and feminine characteristics. This may be as in fashion, gender identity, sexual identity, or sexual lifestyle, or it may refer to biological intersex physicality, especially with regards to plant and human sexuality.

It can refer to intersex, but not always
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How is it fashion?? How would anyone know if someone is surgically modified?

SpaceyWacey said:
But some people do identify as L, B, and G and are perfectly happy with those titles, others are not.
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Always satisfy the masses... :smack: This really shouldn't be in public focus. Who's wise idea put this in public focus? Was it the laws?
 
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touchpause13 said:
separatism never seems to be a sustainable political movement.
plus queers and transgendered people don't have any more in common than lesbians and gays do, no real reason from us to strip away from the rest of the group (also the fact that all of us combined make up such a small percentage of the population splitting off from straights isn't even the best idea)
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Q = L + B + G. Let's not be redundant...

And what caused the political movement? The laws?

Or were the laws a response to the political movement?
 
obviouslyteal said:
Can I just pop in to say that I love, love, love this discussion and the fact that it's on SDN? Finally a riveting conversation that's not about URMs and me banging my head against the wall. Thank you for arguing about something intelligently and listening to each other, on this forum nonetheless!

OK back to your regularly scheduled thread, this queer girl just wanted to interrupt for a second and say hello 🙂

And to reiterate the previous point, some people want to identify as lesbian or gay just as anyone would want to identify as straight, but that doesn't mean that queers can't identify as such as well, and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean that we shouldn't all be allies to one another!
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Glad you enjoyed it. I'm honestly not insulting anyone... I'm just completely confused.
 
Agent B said:
How is it fashion?? How would anyone know if someone is surgically modified?
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fashion as in clothing and other asthetics - not surgery. i can chose to dress in an androgynous manner by cutting my hair short and wearing clothes that are neither expressly feminine nor masculine.

Agent B said:
Q = L + B + G. Let's not be redundant...

And what caused the political movement? The laws?

Or were the laws a response to the political movement?
Click to expand...

NO. Q does not equal L plus B plus G. That's completely incorrect.
There are many times in US history where minority groups have tried to completely isolate themselves from their oppressors and it really doesn't work that well.
 
And I really hate bringing up this point, but I just got more confused. I'm a straight male but often I feel that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body... Am I cis or trans?
 
obviouslyteal said:
Can I just pop in to say that I love, love, love this discussion and the fact that it's on SDN? Finally a riveting conversation that's not about URMs and me banging my head against the wall. Thank you for arguing about something intelligently and listening to each other, on this forum nonetheless!

OK back to your regularly scheduled thread, this queer girl just wanted to interrupt for a second and say hello 🙂

And to reiterate the previous point, some people want to identify as lesbian or gay just as anyone would want to identify as straight, but that doesn't mean that queers can't identify as such as well, and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean that we shouldn't all be allies to one another!
Click to expand...

Queer high-five
tumblr_m6h84mAoMS1rwcc6bo1_500.gif


😍😍😍
 
obviouslyteal said:
Can I just pop in to say that I love, love, love this discussion and the fact that it's on SDN? Finally a riveting conversation that's not about URMs and me banging my head against the wall. Thank you for arguing about something intelligently and listening to each other, on this forum nonetheless!

OK back to your regularly scheduled thread, this queer girl just wanted to interrupt for a second and say hello 🙂

And to reiterate the previous point, some people want to identify as lesbian or gay just as anyone would want to identify as straight, but that doesn't mean that queers can't identify as such as well, and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean that we shouldn't all be allies to one another!
Click to expand...

😀 I agree!! And its nice because we aren't even arguing we are calmly discussing opposing view, which is so rare over the internet. Also hello!
 
Agent B said:
And I really hate bringing up this point, but I just got more confused. I'm a straight male but often I feel that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body... Am I cis or trans?
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oh lawd.
i can say with 99.99% certainty that you are a cis-male
 
touchpause13 said:
fashion as in clothing and other asthetics - not surgery. i can chose to dress in an androgynous manner by cutting my hair short and wearing clothes that are neither expressly feminine nor masculine.



NO. Q does not equal L plus B plus G. That's completely incorrect.
There are many times in US history where minority groups have tried to completely isolate themselves from their oppressors and it really doesn't work that well.
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1. That's metrosexual, not androgynous.
2. How? Q = L + B + G + (1/2) T?
3. Who's oppressing? For instance, before Bill Clinton's Don't Ask Don't Tell, the US didn't care about the LGBTQ.

SpaceyWacey said:
Nope, nope, nope. It's much more.
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See #2.
 
Agent B said:
And I really hate bringing up this point, but I just got more confused. I'm a straight male but often I feel that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body... Am I cis or trans?
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From my little experience in knowing you, I would say you are joking, but right now I think you might just be a little insulting. If you aren't joking well then that is something else entirely...
 
SpaceyWacey said:
From my little experience in knowing you, I would say you are joking, but right now I think you might just be a little insulting. If you aren't joking well then that is something else entirely...
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Oh you know me well... I destroyed you in a tennis match and baseball trivia. But that wasn't a joke nor an insult. It's mixing the L and T... which does happen!
 
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Agent B said:
1. That's metrosexual, not androgynous.
2. How? Q = L + B + G + (1/2) T?
3. Who's oppressing? For instance, before Bill Clinton's Don't Ask Don't Tell, the US didn't care about the LGBTQ.



See #2.
Click to expand...

1. nope. metrosexual isn't really a thing in the LGBTQ community. pretty sure it's something you straight men came up with to feel better about wanting to wear designer jeans

2. Queer is magical because it can be ANYTHING that does not fit into the traditional heterosexual paradigm. I have a female professor who is married to a man who identifies as queer because they are "radically childless" I know polyandrous people who identify as queer. It's an extremely broad label that doesn't have any SET relation to LGBT

3.I was mostly talking about like some 2nd wave feminism stuff (the whole womyn thing) and black panthers
 
Agent B said:
How? If I feel I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body, then I feel that I'm a woman trapped in a man's body who loves other women? Isn't that trans?
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please don't be serious please don't be serious please don't be serious
 
touchpause13 said:
1. nope. metrosexual isn't really a thing in the LGBTQ community. pretty sure it's something you straight men came up with to feel better about wanting to wear designer jeans

2. Queer is magical because it can be ANYTHING that does not fit into the traditional heterosexual paradigm. I have a female professor who is married to a man who identifies as queer because they are "radically childless" I know polyandrous people who identify as queer. It's an extremely broad label that doesn't have any SET relation to LGBT

3.I was mostly talking about like some 2nd wave feminism stuff (the whole womyn thing) and black panthers
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1. That's oppressive. Include the M in the community. It's only fair.

2. Then why is Q part of LGBT?

3. Why would black panthers even care? They were fighting drug gangs.
 
obviouslyteal said:
I actually think you're asking a legitimate question and you're confused about these scenarios... And if I'm interpreting this correctly I would say you're right, you would be trans. If you are a biological male but you feel like you are a gendered female (you don't feel "right" in your male body) AND you are attracted to females (which would make you lesbian as a female), then you are trans.

There's a famous woman named Kimberly Reed, a male to female transgendered person, who made a documentary about her life and family. She is a lesbian now but was born a male, feel free to google!
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That's what I got from Yahoo News some time ago! Glad to see someone understood what I was talking about. 👍
 
Agent B said:
1. That's oppressive. Include the M in the community. It's only fair.

2. Then why is Q part of LGBT?

3. Why would black panthers even care? They were fighting drug gangs.
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1. that's a weak ass joke

2. because LGBT don't fit within the heterosexual paradigm either. we have all been marginalized by society in a similiar way and kinda get lumped together.

3. i was talking about in the 60s yo. not related to the LGBTQ thing at all
 
obviouslyteal said:
I actually think you're asking a legitimate question and you're confused about these scenarios... And if I'm interpreting this correctly I would say you're right, you would be trans. If you are a biological male but you feel like you are a gendered female (you don't feel "right" in your male body) AND you are attracted to females (which would make you lesbian as a female), then you are trans.

There's a famous woman named Kimberly Reed, a male to female transgendered person, who made a documentary about her life and family. She is a lesbian now but was born a male, feel free to google!
Click to expand...

It is a legitimate questions, I just know he isn't being very serious about it.
 
touchpause13 said:
1. that's a weak ass joke

2. because LGBT don't fit within the heterosexual paradigm either. we have all been marginalized by society in a similiar way and kinda get lumped together.

3. i was talking about in the 60s yo. not related to the LGBTQ thing at all
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1. I have no idea anymore... I really wasn't joking...

2. Okay... that sorta makes sense.

3. The Black Panthers were in the 1960s... 😕 The riots happened in 1965 or so.
 
obviouslyteal said:
I actually think you're asking a legitimate question and you're confused about these scenarios... And if I'm interpreting this correctly I would say you're right, you would be trans. If you are a biological male but you feel like you are a gendered female (you don't feel "right" in your male body) AND you are attracted to females (which would make you lesbian as a female), then you are trans.

There's a famous woman named Kimberly Reed, a male to female transgendered person, who made a documentary about her life and family. She is a lesbian now but was born a male, feel free to google!
Click to expand...

I know who that it as well. I wasn't trying to diss that identity is anyway or identity police (sorry!) i was moreso just saying that AgentB is not trans and at least where I am from a lot of straight men like to throw around **** like that to basically get closer to queer ladies and then later ask for sexual favor or "to watch"
You hit a nerve with me dear, that's all and I realize it probably wasn't intentional.
 
obviouslyteal said:
I could definitely see how this would be insulting (a man "wanting" to be a lesbian out of hetero male fantasy about lesbians) but maybe Agent B is being legitimately curious about this scenario? I mean this does happen to people and it confuses straight or otherwise non-LGBTQ oriented people, in that why would a person born a male and attracted to females EVER want to change their sex to female and be a lesbian? I've heard this question before, but there ARE female trans lesbians and it's a legitimately complex but completely valid situation to be in.
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Thanks a lot touchpause. I can't believe you thought me like that. You're no longer awesome. Go away. :cry::cry::cry::cry:

touchpause13 said:
I know who that it as well. I wasn't trying to diss that identity is anyway or identity police (sorry!) i was moreso just saying that AgentB is not trans and at least where I am from a lot of straight men like to throw around **** like that to basically get closer to queer ladies and then later ask for sexual favor or "to watch"
You hit a nerve with me dear, that's all and I realize it probably wasn't intentional.
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It was a serious question and you thought that I was some crazed person. Go away. :cry:
 
Agent B said:
Oh you know me well... I destroyed you in a tennis match and baseball trivia. But that wasn't a joke nor an insult. It's mixing the L and T... which does happen!
Click to expand...

Neither of those ever happened. You wanted to destroy me in tennis, I pretty much said I don't have the time, and you insulted my baseball team/region to which I replied with a resounding I don't even wanna go there....

And yes it does happen, but its not happening to you...and I am almost certain of that, based on what I have heard so far.
 
SpaceyWacey said:
Neither of those ever happened. You wanted to destroy me in tennis, I pretty much said I don't have the time, and you insulted my baseball team/region to which I replied with a resounding I don't even wanna go there....

And yes it does happen, but its not happening to you...and I am almost certain of that, based on what I have heard so far.
Click to expand...

I destroyed you in tennis when I stopped by with mehc and Guero in our motorcycle tour. And it's a fact that West Coast has worse baseball teams than East Coast. Ask ESPN.
 
Agent B said:
Thanks a lot touchpause. I can't believe you thought me like that. You're no longer awesome. Go away. :cry::cry::cry::cry:



It was a serious question and you thought that I was some crazed person. Go away. :cry:
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tumblr_inline_miltvtXNFa1qz4rgp.gif


In all seriousness I wasn't trying to be a dick and I am legit enjoying our conversation and don't think ur Creeper Straight Dude (tm)
I hope your question was answered. I think what you are kind of getting caught up on is defining queer. which is kinda problematic because there isn't really a set definition for queer in the same way there is for gay or lesbian which makes it awesome and difficult at the same time. It's awesome because I feel included with all my weird sexiness and difficult because I end up having to explain myself a lot. Is that starting to make more sense? Also the whole Metro thing is just a bit odd to me because I've never heard of someone identify as that within our community and the fact that it's straight men kinda gives a lot of us the willies (no offense)
 
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Agent B said:
3. Who's oppressing? For instance, before Bill Clinton's Don't Ask Don't Tell, the US didn't care about the LGBTQ.
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What is this I don't even

Police used to raid gay bars and arrest everyone present. In this country. There are social movements that came out of people getting tired of things like that happening. Until the last decade, it's been universally legit to fire people from employment or evict them from housing for being gay. And it happened, a lot. It still happens. The AIDS epidemic disproportionately hit the gay community and because of that, it was a low research priority for years. There are a lot more examples in the world.
 
Agent B said:
I destroyed you in tennis when I stopped by with mehc and Guero in our motorcycle tour. And it's a fact that West Coast has worse baseball teams than East Coast. Ask ESPN.
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Oh sweet, so you did come visit me, even if to "annihilate" me in tennis. Also ESPN = biased
 
rachelkj said:
What is this I don't even

Police used to raid gay bars and arrest everyone present. In this country. There are social movements that came out of people getting tired of things like that happening. Until the last decade, it's been universally legit to fire people from employment or evict them from housing for being gay. And it happened, a lot. It still happens. The AIDS epidemic disproportionately hit the gay community and because of that, it was a low research priority for years. There are a lot more examples in the world.
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Thank you, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who caught this, I was running out of emotional energy to answer it.

Also the police raid thing is interesting in the context of this conversation because you had to have at least (3?) articles of clothing of "your" sex or else you would be arrested. It's been a while since I've read stone butch blues so my pre-stonewall history is a bit fuzzy and i'm sure there is a lot more examples i just can't think of it right now.
 
rachelkj said:
What is this I don't even

Police used to raid gay bars and arrest everyone present. In this country. There are social movements that came out of people getting tired of things like that happening. Until the last decade, it's been universally legit to fire people from employment or evict them from housing for being gay. And it happened, a lot. It still happens. The AIDS epidemic disproportionately hit the gay community and because of that, it was a low research priority for years. There are a lot more examples in the world.
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So, it's positive feedback?

Majority oppressing the minority ---> minority responds by activism ---> increasing activism means increasing calls for reforms ---> many states respond by passing laws restricting minorities to support their traditional outlook ---> more reforms ---> federal involvement ---> federal support of minority ---> everyone's happy until new minority revolts.

SpaceyWacey said:
Oh sweet, so you did come visit me, even if to "annihilate" me in tennis. Also ESPN = biased
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Yeah I did twice. The first time, I caught you in an "awkward" moment. It was so embarrassing that I had to run away immediately, but I accidently broke a vase along the way. Sorry for that. 😳
 
obviouslyteal said:
Also, before I go to bed I just wanted to say one more thing. Here's how I see queers as different but included in the same community as the rest of LGBT:

Queers do not identify as "straight" in the sense that their sexual preferences do not "fit" neatly into heteronormative practices and culture. Whether it be kink, sexual orientation preferences or what have you, they feel the same "closeted" feelings that someone who identifies as gay or straight might. Basically, queer people still feel as though their sexual proclivities aren't accepted as the norm by the majority of their peers, and thus feel the need or desire to identify as such.

They are NOT specifically gay, lesbian or trans because maybe they don't necessarily always prefer homosexual sex, or they feel comfortable in the body they were born in. However, this doesn't make their feelings of queerness, especially in the context of heteronormative sex, any less valid. They still have something important in common with the LGBT community that merits inclusion into that community! Also, queer is a way for many people that can "pass" as straight (i.e. a female who has a boyfriend/husband or mostly dates males but still is attracted to women) to feel a part of a community that they feel captures their identity better than the term "straight."

Ya dig? 🙂
Click to expand...

👍
 
obviouslyteal said:
Also, before I go to bed I just wanted to say one more thing. Here's how I see queers as different but included in the same community as the rest of LGBT:

Queers do not identify as "straight" in the sense that their sexual preferences do not "fit" neatly into heteronormative practices and culture. Whether it be kink, sexual orientation preferences or what have you, they feel the same "closeted" feelings that someone who identifies as gay or straight might. Basically, queer people still feel as though their sexual proclivities aren't accepted as the norm by the majority of their peers, and thus feel the need or desire to identify as such.

They are NOT specifically gay, lesbian or trans because maybe they don't necessarily always prefer homosexual sex, or they feel comfortable in the body they were born in. However, this doesn't make their feelings of queerness, especially in the context of heteronormative sex, any less valid. They still have something important in common with the LGBT community that merits inclusion into that community! Also, queer is a way for many people that can "pass" as straight (i.e. a female who has a boyfriend/husband or mostly dates males but still is attracted to women) to feel a part of a community that they feel captures their identity better than the term "straight."

Ya dig? 🙂
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Wow, that makes so much sense now. You are officially my most favorite and awesome person from the LGBTQ. 😍:biglove:😍
 
obviouslyteal said:
Thanks guys! 😍 I love getting on my little queer soap box and helping people become allies. I added a little chunk their to my original post on the last sentence that I think is also important, regarding the term bisexual (which I still think is also completely valid for people who feel that it describes them well. It's all about how you choose to describe yourself folks, not anyone else!)

Now with my faith in the world mostly intact, I shall go to bed. Thanks for being the coolest on SDN, y'all!
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Well, I'm only allies with you. Rachel's good, but politically radical. Spacey's mad that I caught her in the awkward time and disliked her teams. And some person did provide some very useful advice until she implied I was a womanizer.
 
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Agent B said:
Yeah I did twice. The first time, I caught you in an "awkward" moment. It was so embarrassing that I had to run away immediately, but I accidently broke a vase along the way. Sorry for that. 😳
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Come back and tell me what the heck any of this means!
 
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