Official Rank List Thread 2008-2009

[dreamfox]

So lots of rank threads are popping up, so everyone use this thread to post your rank list or ask for advice about your rank list. I'll start, so how would you rank these for somebody set on cards:

1) Cornell
2) Mt. Sinai
3) Stanford
4) Ucla
5) Ucsd
6) UW
7) Emory
8) NYU
9) Colorado

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[CanIMakeIt]

So lots of rank threads are popping up, so everyone use this thread to post your rank list or ask for advice about your rank list. I'll start, so how would you rank these for somebody set on cards:

THIS IS TOTALLY MY SUBJECTIVE RANKING:

1) Stanford (better name/good weather/expensive)
2) Ucla (good name/awesome residency/nice weather/expensive/traffic)
3) Cornell (Good name/perceived good residency/awesome housing across the street)
4) Mt. Sinai (Good training)
5) UW (not sure about this program ... very good name/highly ranked but not so good cards match list)
6) Emory (hard core residency)
7) UCSD (nice place)
8) NYU (Don't take their own)
9) Colorado (no clue)

 

[CanIMakeIt]

Here is my list in alphabetical order. I also have same question as dreamfox that how would you rank these for someone interested in cards:

1. Baylor- Houston
2. Duke
3. Harbor-UCLA
4. Mayo-Rochester
5. OHSU
6. Tulane
7. UC-Davis
8. UNC
9. UTSW
10. UW - Categorical
11. UW - Primary Care
12. WashU

Thanks.

 

[iatrosB]

11. UW - Primary Care

Thanks.

Why would this be on your list if you really want cards?

 

[iatrosB]

Mine:

University of Missouri Kansas City
Kansas University
University of Missouri Columbia

 

[nasdr]

So lots of rank threads are popping up, so everyone use this thread to post your rank list or ask for advice about your rank list. I'll start, so how would you rank these for somebody set on cards:

i'll preface by saying the same as CanIMakeIt; this is my subjective ranking.

(1) Cornell - strong reputation, sent 21 people in cards in past 2 years, good match list, residents seem very cohesive (likely given the housing across the street), i also like nyc
(2) UCLA - good name, nice weather, i got the impression after interviewing that UCLA is a better training program than stanford and that i'd fit in better with the residents, maybe less bread and butter medicine but residents come out very strong clinically, you will be busy as any other place but there is very little scutwork
(3) Stanford - see above, i'm also not sold on the location
(4) Mt Sinai - good training program, reputation slight notch below cornell maybe
(5) UW - would be higher if interested in something other than cards
(6) Emory - strong cards program and some ppl might move this higher up due to their match list
(7) UCSD/NYC/Colorado - all about the same in my opinion

 

[nasdr]

Why would this be on your list if you really want cards?

he/she may have simply applied to both tracks; i assume it would be a program much lower on the ROL...

 

[ranmyaku]

Why would this be on your list if you really want cards?

Just b/c you are in a Primary Care Track doesn' t mean you can't sub-specialize. It just means your 3 years are slightly different than your categorical colleagues. ie. you prob have 1 or 2 more outpatient months than them. Maybe different lecture series too, geared for ambulatory medicine.

40% of the graduates of the Yale - Primary Care track go on to do Sub-specialty training.

 

[iatrosB]

Just b/c you are in a Primary Care Track doesn' t mean you can't sub-specialize. It just means your 3 years are slightly different than your categorical colleagues. ie. you prob have 1 or 2 more outpatient months than them. Maybe different lecture series too, geared for ambulatory medicine.

40% of the graduates of the Yale - Primary Care track go on to do Sub-specialty training.

yeah, i know that. But most of those people originally wanted to do primary care and then decided later to subspecialize. It just seems to make more sense to go with traditional IM if you want Cards (where more hospital and ICU months will help).

But you're right, at the end of the day an IM grad is an IM grad whether they went with a primary care track or not.

 

[mem141]

Okay, debating my top three: Brigham, MGH, and UCSF. My goal is (at the moment) to stay in general internal medicine and be a clinician-educator. I have applied to the primary care tracks at all three institutions.

In alphabetical order...
Brigham--I like "warm and fuzzy" as a principle. People seemed incredibly nice and willing to help each other out--trade a call weekend so someone could go to a friend's wedding, etc. I think these "little things" may make a big difference in something as hard as residency. Also, the teaching conferences and overall intellectual atmosphere seemed amazing.
But...I am worried that the patient population might not be as interesting and/or underserved as at the other two. I plan to do work with underserved in practice, but not sure how much I need of that in my three years or training. What seems most amazing is the support for individualized career paths here. Want to work at the WHO? Work with IHS? Do policy work? Hang with Paul Farmer? Done. But is all this icing on the cake? What about the rest of the clinical experience?
MGH--was initially worried that they do not have each other's backs and enjoy hard work for hard work's sake, rather than for learning purposes. However, went back for a second look and thought this might be a nice mix of some more underserved while still very academic. It might be exciting to be thrown into the mix with some more autonomy-with-a-safety-net structure. I also like the 24-hour call schedule, but is this a moot point because of IOM recommendations we'll all be doing 24-hour call anyway? Bigelow service is great, but it is not all of MGH--you are still at Ellison a bunch too.
UCSF--got a really great feeling during my day there. Really like that there are no private patients and the three-hospital system. However, also got a sense people here might be even more overworked than the other two programs. I love county hospital exposure but the paper charts, days to get a CT scan...worried that SFGH might prove to be a little demoralizing for training.

I know I can't go wrong, but anyone else having this debate?

 

[CanIMakeIt]

yeah, i know that. But most of those people originally wanted to do primary care and then decided later to subspecialize. It just seems to make more sense to go with traditional IM if you want Cards (where more hospital and ICU months will help).

But you're right, at the end of the day an IM grad is an IM grad whether they went with a primary care track or not.

The reason I applied to both the tracks was because as per my conversation with PD/residents, Categorical vs PC is just a label for their convenience...you can pick and choose what you want for your elective months ... a categorical resident may do all the electives in ambulatory medicine and a PC resident can do all the ambulatory/electives in inpatient medicine. That is my understanding. And PC track will be lower on my ROL.

 

[mem141]

Also...anyone with thoughts on Brigham's DGM vs HVMA pcare programs?
Or UCSF's SFPC vs. UCPC pcare programs?

 

[doc luv]

.

 

[iatrosB]

The reason I applied to both the tracks was because as per my conversation with PD/residents, Categorical vs PC is just a label for their convenience...you can pick and choose what you want for your elective months ... a categorical resident may do all the electives in ambulatory medicine and a PC resident can do all the ambulatory/electives in inpatient medicine. That is my understanding. And PC track will be lower on my ROL.

That makes sense.

 

[indiamacbean]

If it makes the UCSF vs. BWh vs. MGH thing any easier it seems that this is the choice the majority of the peeps were making in my program (UC) when it came to the top of the list. the truth is you will get awesome training in all of these places. why dont you guys decide whether you would prefer to be at Boston vs. SF. this really should be the question. family/friends/SOs/life outside of medicine. From there figure whether there are any particular professional areas which interest you most be it subspecialty training or curricular developments. as to the post about SFGH breaking you as a resident, I really dont think so. each of our spots has ups and downs but I am SO glad that when I get fed up/done with one hospital I am off to the next. change is good. at least for me.

 

[dreamfox]

bump

 

[Freakingout]

also lookin at doing cards. any advice on how to rank these places? thanks

boston university
cedars sinai
harbor-ucla
hopkins bayview
montefiore
rush
tufts
uic
usc
uva

Montefiore: I really liked this program. It's location isn't ideal but I got the sense that residents who trained there are basically trained for anything coming their way. With respect to training I think that Bellevue, Presbyterian and Montefiore are the three best programs in NYC. Unfortunetly the match list is not the strongest and their basic sience is definitely not as good as Columbia. I wish that Montefiore's reputation was more in line with the actual training they receive.

My rank list would probably look like this:
1. Hopkins Bayview
2. UVA
3. BU
4. Montefiore
5. Harbor-UCLA
6. Cedars Sinai

 

[drfunktacular]

I'm couples-matching, so my list wouldn't probably look like this if it were just me. And we may change our mind between now and match day. That said...

1) Baylor
2) Duke
3) UNC
4) Baylor-Dallas
5) UTSW (Not really the place for me, but another option in D/FW)
6) Scott & White
7) Mayo (Would probably have put this higher, but not a great match for my wife)
8) UT-San Antonio
9) UT-Houston
10) Colorado (I loved it, but big, big probs w/ her prospective program)

Not to majorly thread-jack, but does anyone have any +/-'s on the Baylor program? I was initially concerned about institutional upheaval (discussed at length in threads throughout SDN if you're unfamiliar), but they really convinced me that it is a strong, stable program that will train you really well in a variety of settings, i.e.,
a) old people bread-and-butter at nation's largest VA
b) crazy indigent/immigrant end-stage disease at Ben Taub, along with what is quite likely the most intense ER experience a medicine resident is likely to get anywhere in the Ben Taub ER
c) fancy-schmancy tertiary/quaternary pvt-practice orgy-of-unnecessary-spending "standard of care" at St. Luke's (+Texas Heart)
Plus there's just something inspiring about the Texas Med Center.

Anyone else strongly considering BCM?

 

[carter]

Really looking for some help ranking these programs. Interested in subspecialty training, possibly heme/onc or Critical care.

UMinn
Ohio State
Robert Wood
Utah
Dartmouth
UMass
Arizona

Just looking for general impressions and suggestions. Thanks.

 

[kb7878kb]

Among those programs, I think Ohio State stands out slightly more than the others. You would definitely get a lot of exposure to Heme/Onc and all the subspecialties in general.

 

[pseudosista]

Looking to do Hem/Onc, and I'm especially struggling with the Mayo vs. Wash U vs. Michigan decision. I believe BIDMC is my front-runner, however. Any input would be greatly appreciated...
1) BIDMC
2) Mayo-Rochester (just got a really great gut feeling from here. I'm originally from a small, midwest town so although Rochester is not ideal, it would be tolerable)
3) Wash U
4) Michigan
5) Yale
6) Colorado

Thanks everyone! I'll take all the help I can get...

 

[Francis Peabody]

Baylor
Drexel
U Minn
Wayne State
UConn
MGH
U Arizona

 

[Friendly]

1. MGH.
2. JHH.
3. Cornell.
4. University of Rochester.
5. Vanderbilt.
6. University of Maryland.
7. Yale.
8. Emory.
9. Dartmouth.
10. BIDMC.


1-4 are very fluid right now, though.

 

[DantheMan05]

That's kind of an odd list, particularly your 5-10...any particular reason you have BIDMC so low? I love UMaryland as much as the next guy, but we are talking a Harvard hospital with great morale here...

 

[CaliROL2009]

This is in no particular order. Not looking to subspecialize right now, but want to keep the doors open for fellowships if I choose to later on. Would like some research opps, but nothing super-academic (it's just not me). Just want a balance program with strong training and happy residents.

Cedars-Sinai
Habor UCLA
Olive View UCLA
Kaiser Sunset
UCI
UCD
Cal Pacific
Huntington
UCSD
USC

 

[Friendly]

That's kind of an odd list, particularly your 5-10...any particular reason you have BIDMC so low? I love UMaryland as much as the next guy, but we are talking a Harvard hospital with great morale here...

Thanks.....I think. BIDMC is a great place with wonderful, wonderful people.....but it's not for me. I want to be pushed harder than I feel they will push and there are far too many private patients there. I don't give a hoot about prestige or a 'coveted brand name' and, if you're using that as a major selection tool for the ROL, it's utterly foolish in my opinion. UMD is a tough program with amazing substrate in a diverse city. The program has huge success in creating all-rounders, and their fellowship match stats are impressive. On top of that, they have one of the best VA hospitals out there, and I like the VA environment.

 

[nasdr]

Thanks.....I think. BIDMC is a great place with wonderful, wonderful people.....but it's not for me. I want to be pushed harder than I feel they will push and there are far too many private patients there. I don't give a hoot about prestige or a 'coveted brand name' and, if you're using that as a major selection tool for the ROL, it's utterly foolish in my opinion. UMD is a tough program with amazing substrate in a diverse city. The program has huge success in creating all-rounders, and their fellowship match stats are impressive. On top of that, they have one of the best VA hospitals out there, and I like the VA environment.

at cornell, i believe you have private patients (i.e. check in with multiple attendings occasionally). the residents at cornell and BID seemed okay with it, for the most part.

 

[Friendly]

at cornell, i believe you have private patients (i.e. check in with multiple attendings occasionally). the residents at cornell and BID seemed okay with it, for the most part.

I know, but it's a different set-up at Cornell, and I have additional reasons for ranking it higher.

 

[drjitsu]

I don't give a hoot about prestige or a 'coveted brand name' and, if you're using that as a major selection tool for the ROL, it's utterly foolish in my opinion.

Amen brother.

 

[danceforit]

agreed, although it somewhat funny to read someone talking against coveted named programs while their top two ranks are arguably the top two brand names in the country. not that they aren't great, of course

 

[kb7878kb]

Having trouble deciding how to rank these..any opinions would be appreciated. Planning on fellowship in GI. Thanks!

Mayo (Rochester)
UTSW
Emory
UCSD
Vanderbilt
UNC
Pitt

 

[texas29]

really need help with ranking these programs. wanting to do GI. in no particular order,

emory
UNC
WashU
Uni Ill Chicago
Baylor Dallas
UTSW
UTHSCSA
Baylor Houston
UT Houston

 

[dreamfox]

Having trouble deciding how to rank these..any opinions would be appreciated. Planning on fellowship in GI. Thanks!

Mayo (Rochester)
UTSW
Emory
UCSD
Vanderbilt
UNC
Pitt

all good choices, but here's what i would go with:
1) Mayo
2) Vandy
3) UTSW
4) UCSD
5) UNC

don't know anythign about pitt.

 

[autobot]

How would you rank these if you didnt care about GI Cards fellowship match rates. Just want a place with good clinical training, friendly people, Good education, decent location etc. Havent decided about fellowships but likely not GI or Cards, but eventually want to do academics.

UTSW
Baylor Houston
UNC
Univ of Washington
Pitt
Northwestern
U of Michigan
Case Western
Mayo Rochester

 

[CanIMakeIt]

How would you rank these if you didnt care about GI Cards fellowship match rates. Just want a place with good clinical training, friendly people, Good education, decent location etc. Havent decided about fellowships but likely not GI or Cards, but eventually want to do academics.
This is how I would rank them according to my perceived reputation for academic competitiveness .... can't comment on location as that is totally a personal preference (I hate too cold places) :

Univ Washington
Michigan
UTSW = Baylor Houston
Northwestern = Pitt = UNC
Case Western = Mayo Rochester

 

[viostorm]

Just for clarification, is montfiore that I see pop up in many lists is that the UPMC main program?

 

[ForeignBody]

Montefiore is Albert Einstein College of Medicine. Univ of Pittsburgh is UPMC

 

[Gibbles]

1. Gunderson Lutheran (La Crosse)
2. University of Iowa (Iowa City)
3. Abbott-Northwestern (Minneapolis)
4. UNMC (Omaha)
5. Des Moines


I come from a rural area of the midwest and decided that I wanted a program that was more community-based and close to home, because out of the programs that I've rotated with, it's obvious, in my opinion, that community-based programs allow the most autonomy and give you the most chances to do procedures while allowing for significant attending/resident interactions.

At least, that's what I've noted. Plus, I'm interested in doing ID/Critical Care and ID isn't exactly competitive right now.

 

[BGriffin]

Here's my current list, anyone want to give their opinions? I'm interested in cardio for now. I don't really care about the location all that much, just a nice program to be at that doesn't feel abusive and gives me the ability to match into a fellowship. Thanks!

Vanderbilt
Wash U
Michigan
Mayo
Baylor Houston
UTSW
UCSD
UPMC
UC Davis
UVa
Case
Cleveland Clinic

 

[nasdr]

Here's my current list, anyone want to give their opinions? I'm interested in cardio for now. I don't really care about the location all that much, just a nice program to be at that doesn't feel abusive and gives me the ability to match into a fellowship. Thanks!

Vanderbilt
Wash U
Michigan
Mayo
Baylor Houston
UTSW
UCSD
UPMC
UC Davis
UVa
Case
Cleveland Clinic

without knowing anything else about what you're looking for, i'd say:

michigan = washU
vandy = mayo = utsw (all very different programs btw)
uva = baylor = ucsd = upmc (honestly, dont know enough about these)
case = cc = uc davis

several of these programs are not abusive, and fellowship potential is nearly equal for the top 4 or 5 on this list.

 

[BGriffin]

without knowing anything else about what you're looking for, i'd say:

michigan = washU
vandy = mayo = utsw (all very different programs btw)
uva = baylor = ucsd = upmc (honestly, dont know enough about these)
case = cc = uc davis

several of these programs are not abusive, and fellowship potential is nearly equal for the top 4 or 5 on this list.

Thanks for the input. I agree about the UTSW vs mayo comparison--completely opposite ends of the spectrum with regard to their intensity. I like Dallas, but after running into a lot of UTSW students on the interview trail and getting their opinions, I'm less certain I'll be ranking it as highly as I initially thought I would.

 

[orientedtoself]

Here's my current list, anyone want to give their opinions? I'm interested in cardio for now. I don't really care about the location all that much, just a nice program to be at that doesn't feel abusive and gives me the ability to match into a fellowship. Thanks!

Vanderbilt
Wash U
Michigan
Mayo
Baylor Houston
UTSW
UCSD
UPMC
UC Davis
UVa
Case
Cleveland Clinic

michigan = wash u = utsw
vandy = ucsd = uva
baylor = case = pitt
mayo
>>> cleveland clinic

 

[orientedtoself]

really need help with ranking these programs. wanting to do GI. in no particular order,

emory
UNC
WashU
Uni Ill Chicago
Baylor Dallas
UTSW
UTHSCSA
Baylor Houston
UT Houston

utsw = wash u
emory

don't know about others

 

[orientedtoself]

This is in no particular order. Not looking to subspecialize right now, but want to keep the doors open for fellowships if I choose to later on. Would like some research opps, but nothing super-academic (it's just not me). Just want a balance program with strong training and happy residents.

Cedars-Sinai
Habor UCLA
Olive View UCLA
Kaiser Sunset
UCI
UCD
Cal Pacific
Huntington
UCSD
USC

ucsd
harbor-ucla
uc-davis
cedars

 

[orientedtoself]

Baylor
Drexel
U Minn
Wayne State
UConn
MGH
U Arizona

mgh- come on, it's harvard. you can't lose
minnesota- great bmt program

 

[orientedtoself]

Having trouble deciding how to rank these..any opinions would be appreciated. Planning on fellowship in GI. Thanks!

Mayo (Rochester)
UTSW
Emory
UCSD
Vanderbilt
UNC
Pitt

utsw
ucsd
emory
vandy

 

[orientedtoself]

Looking to do Hem/Onc, and I'm especially struggling with the Mayo vs. Wash U vs. Michigan decision. I believe BIDMC is my front-runner, however. Any input would be greatly appreciated...
1) BIDMC
2) Mayo-Rochester (just got a really great gut feeling from here. I'm originally from a small, midwest town so although Rochester is not ideal, it would be tolerable)
3) Wash U
4) Michigan
5) Yale
6) Colorado

Thanks everyone! I'll take all the help I can get...

wash u = michigan = bid
colorado
yale
mayo- but if you think you would be really happy in that program, you should go there. the program you match at will own your life for the next three years. plus you might end up staying for fellowship.

 

[orientedtoself]

Really looking for some help ranking these programs. Interested in subspecialty training, possibly heme/onc or Critical care.

UMinn
Ohio State
Robert Wood
Utah
Dartmouth
UMass
Arizona

Just looking for general impressions and suggestions. Thanks.

minnesota- great bmt program
ohio state- i have heard they have a strong onc fellowship
utah

 

[orientedtoself]

Okay, debating my top three: Brigham, MGH, and UCSF. My goal is (at the moment) to stay in general internal medicine and be a clinician-educator. I have applied to the primary care tracks at all three institutions.

In alphabetical order...
Brigham--I like "warm and fuzzy" as a principle. People seemed incredibly nice and willing to help each other out--trade a call weekend so someone could go to a friend's wedding, etc. I think these "little things" may make a big difference in something as hard as residency. Also, the teaching conferences and overall intellectual atmosphere seemed amazing.
But...I am worried that the patient population might not be as interesting and/or underserved as at the other two. I plan to do work with underserved in practice, but not sure how much I need of that in my three years or training. What seems most amazing is the support for individualized career paths here. Want to work at the WHO? Work with IHS? Do policy work? Hang with Paul Farmer? Done. But is all this icing on the cake? What about the rest of the clinical experience?
MGH--was initially worried that they do not have each other's backs and enjoy hard work for hard work's sake, rather than for learning purposes. However, went back for a second look and thought this might be a nice mix of some more underserved while still very academic. It might be exciting to be thrown into the mix with some more autonomy-with-a-safety-net structure. I also like the 24-hour call schedule, but is this a moot point because of IOM recommendations we'll all be doing 24-hour call anyway? Bigelow service is great, but it is not all of MGH--you are still at Ellison a bunch too.
UCSF--got a really great feeling during my day there. Really like that there are no private patients and the three-hospital system. However, also got a sense people here might be even more overworked than the other two programs. I love county hospital exposure but the paper charts, days to get a CT scan...worried that SFGH might prove to be a little demoralizing for training.

I know I can't go wrong, but anyone else having this debate?

you won't go wrong with any of the harvard programs

 

[orientedtoself]

Here is my list in alphabetical order. I also have same question as dreamfox that how would you rank these for someone interested in cards:

1. Baylor- Houston
2. Duke
3. Harbor-UCLA
4. Mayo-Rochester
5. OHSU
6. Tulane
7. UC-Davis
8. UNC
9. UTSW
10. UW - Categorical
11. UW - Primary Care
12. WashU

Thanks.

uw = wash u = duke = utsw
ohsu
harbor-ucla
mayo