PCOM Discussion thread 2008-2009

[nevinleiby]

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So....anyone get post-secondary rejected yet?

The silence is killing me. I officially got the axe from CCOM the other day (I wouldn't have gone anyways) but I'm hoping that it's not indicative of my chances with PCOM.

And, ILikeFood, it's not that cold in Philly. Weather.com has it in the mid to high 40's this week. Now, Chicago, that place is cold. And windy. Brrrr.

LOL!

I interviewed at DMU during the cold spell with the lowest recorded temp in 30 years. I stayed downtown at the Marriott (Don't...there is no wifi in the rooms and you have to pay for corded ethernet...it's a rip off at that price!!), but it seemed a little cool in my room. I wasn't surprised that it was cold...it was -19F not considering the wind chill, with wind it was pulled down to -34F or something very according to the weather.

I tried to close the curtains a little more, so I opened them a little to expose the window...AAAHHH! ...the condensation in my room had FROZEN along the window frame! 😱

 

[nevinleiby]

Hmm you are probably right, but I think the "As long as the application talks about how they improved and changed" part is where the unsuccessful reapplicants lose wind. Its difficult to drastically improve a weak app in 5 months (without retaking the MCAT in this person's case). Of course it can be done.. its done probably more than a thousand times a year, but you don't want to unnecessarily put yourself in that position if you can help it. Stigma or not, the general rule is to wait to apply until you are competitive.?

Good advice 👍, imho, even though you can probably get into different programs with a so-so application even if you are running late.

The problem becomes what to do when you get the first acceptance with a late so-so application...

 

[Bacchus]

Awesome!!! I was just accepted!! I am so excited! I interviewed on Monday, holy cow that was quick. My roommate called me and read the letter to me today as I was eating lunch at my LECOM interview. I couldn't jump up and down or anything, it was hard. Couple of things my interview group asked during breakfast how many spots were left. We were told the class is still only half full - so there's still hope everyone. Also $250 is due to secure a seat and $2000 dollars is due by April 15th (tax day). Hope this helps. I am so excited!!

PS: Erie seems great as well, the PBL pathway seems like a really interesting idea and I think that it will really help some students. I am from Philly and have been living here for awhile, hence my decision.

I would have hooted and hollered. No shame, at least for me. Would have scared LECOM into accepting you .

 

[Bleurberry]

I would have hooted and hollered. No shame, at least for me. Would have scared LECOM into accepting you .

Haha! I can see myself politely excusing myself to the bathroom to call family.

 

[Homebrew13]

When was your interview? And did you receive it by snail mail today? No emails?

I interviewed at PCOM on the 26th, I got the letter, by snail mail, yesterday the 30th. It is dated the 28th. Hope that helps.

Lovepark: I tried to do just that and had no reception at all 20 feet down the hall in the bathroom. I couldn't even send a text in the bathroom.

Bacchus: I think I had a grin on my face that nothing could erase. It's funny all my nervousness just disappeared. Being a non-traditional student I think made it even better, I felt like a monkey was finally off my back. The fact that it snowed about 3 inches from 8 AM to 2 PM and I had to drive back to Philly kept me a little calm. I didn't want to die on the way home.

Hope to meet you two soon.


Chucks Right Foot: Thanks!!!

 

[Bacchus]

This depends on your situation. If you have been estranged from your parents I'd assume the letter would be the way to go. If you're like me, living at home for the summer and working, that doesn't constitute independence.

 

[phigirl56]

I'm in!!!!!!!! I am so excited... I love this school. I cant wait to meet all of my future class mates!! I'm slightly torn because I have an acceptance at LECOM as well, and I really wanted to do PBL. However, PCOM just feels like home.😍

 

[rc4ch]

I am in as well. 🙂 Who was at the 1/13/09 interview?

 

[Bleurberry]

I interviewed at PCOM on the 26th, I got the letter, by snail mail, yesterday the 30th. It is dated the 28th. Hope that helps.

Lovepark: I tried to do just that and had no reception at all 20 feet down the hall in the bathroom. I couldn't even send a text in the bathroom.

Bacchus: I think I had a grin on my face that nothing could erase. It's funny all my nervousness just disappeared. Being a non-traditional student I think made it even better, I felt like a monkey was finally off my back. The fact that it snowed about 3 inches from 8 AM to 2 PM and I had to drive back to Philly kept me a little calm. I didn't want to die on the way home.

Hope to meet you two soon.


Chucks Right Foot: Thanks!!!

Non-trad's rule.
Thanks for the bathroom story, I laughed!

 

[Bleurberry]

Bacchus is right. But if I were to leave out parent's info, I'd have a freaking good reason.
And then you must send along your letter of explanation, ultimately it's their call whether your reasoning for the omission is sound.

Do I need to submit copies of my parents’ tax return?​

All students must submit copies of their parents’ 2007 federal tax return; or alternative documentation and a copy of the 2007 student (and spouse) federal tax return, in order to be given consideration for institutional need-based funds. These funds are gift aid that does not have to be returned. For further information regarding the application process for institutional need-based funds, please visit the Financial Aid section of the PCOM Web site.​

How do I apply for grants and scholarships at PCOM?

To be considered for PCOM need-based grants and scholarships, students need to complete parental data on the FAFSA and provide the parents' federal tax return. If you are unable to provide parental data on your FAFSA, or if you feel that the data inappropriately represents your personal financial situation, you may submit to the Financial Aid Office, alternative documentation in the form of a detailed letter that describes your living situation and financial circumstances. You must also include a copy of your (and your spouse) 2007 federal tax return. Recommended websites for private sources of grants and scholarships are www.aacom.org for medical students and www.free-4u.com for all students. Students may also complete a national scholarship search at www.fastweb.com.​

It looks like your parent's tax information is actually not required. Please try to show me otherwise though.​

If a letter is sufficient, do you think it will still put these people at a disadvantage?​

 

[udsoccer7]

Hey guys,

There is actually a series of questions on the FAFSA site that determines whether you can or can not declare yourself independent. Everyone will get the financial aid that they need, regardless as to whether they submit their parents information or not. I do know that at PCOM, if you do submit your parent's info, they will give mini scholarships to certain students in financial need. But, if you have been independent for 3 years, you really don't need to go and get your parents income information.

 

[ARR]

I got my acceptance letter on Friday. I interviewed on 1/15. I am so excited! PCOM is my no.1 school!

Good luck to all waiting.

 

[nevinleiby]

 

[Bleurberry]

Hey guys,

There is actually a series of questions on the FAFSA site that determines whether you can or can not declare yourself independent. Everyone will get the financial aid that they need, regardless as to whether they submit their parents information or not. I do know that at PCOM, if you do submit your parent's info, they will give mini scholarships to certain students in financial need. But, if you have been independent for 3 years, you really don't need to go and get your parents income information.

Good call, but you can be 40 and still need to fill in the parental info if you want a shot at need based grants.

 

[Bleurberry]

I got my acceptance letter on Friday. I interviewed on 1/15. I am so excited! PCOM is my no.1 school!

Good luck to all waiting.

Congrat's!

 

[engineeredout]

uhh what is going on PCOM. I sent in my secondary in october and probly complete since late Oct/early Nov...and Ive called/emailed them so many times and I'm still under review. ..and they said interviews go til April by the way.

Same here, no word/status updates. Frustrating!!

 

[Bacchus]

Its not April yet. Relax.

 

[phillypd]

whoa.......i finally got a interview..........YEY i'm very nervous

 

[Animus]

whoa.......i finally got a interview..........YEY i'm very nervous

Congrats, do not be nervous you will do fine and the interviewers here are great peeps.

When do you come? I will wave on my way to class, haha.

 

[dsjar]

congrats phillypd!
I'm still waiting for my interview...it's getting really frustrating
do you mind sharing your stats!?

 

[jcrewtriathlete]

so i was complete first week of jan (got behind sending out the secondary cuz of the holidays..), got the acknowledgement letter that my file was complete last week (i.e. three weeks later).. how long before anyone started hearing back for interviews? or rejections? i wish i had been complete sooner but budgeting forced me to spread out my applications...

thanks!

 

[237696]

so i was complete first week of jan (got behind sending out the secondary cuz of the holidays..), got the acknowledgement letter that my file was complete last week (i.e. three weeks later).. how long before anyone started hearing back for interviews? or rejections? i wish i had been complete sooner but budgeting forced me to spread out my applications...

thanks!

Got my file complete letter in the mail on 11/29 and an e-mail interview invitation on 12/18... but the interview date was for more than two months away.

 

[phillypd]

wow really.................2 months away!!!!! mine is in two weeks......can someone tell me what to expect......was anyone here questioned about the not so stellar grades they got? What did they ask you?

 

[jcrewtriathlete]

Got my file complete letter in the mail on 11/29 and an e-mail interview invitation on 12/18... but the interview date was for more than two months away.

hmmm i wonder if the delay was because of the holidays? i'm mainly freaking out because of how slow i was to send in my secondary... anyone else feel like posting how long it took between "file complete" letter to hearing anything or getting an interview invite? my gpa is rotten but my mcat is pretty competitive and i have some great LORs and plenty of clinical experience so i guess i'll have to wait and see...

 

[Bacchus]

I had the pleasure of having Deb as one of my interviewers. She happened to be a math major (if I heard her correctly) so "naturally" she asked me why I didn't do well in PChem (C). For me, it was simple. It was the material. I said this and also threw in that I was the one at fault and no one else could be blamed--the professor responsible for the course also taught biochemistry which I did well in. That was it, we never talked about it again.

The other "grade" question I got was how I brought my MCAT up by 3 points.

 

[phillypd]

ok....b/c some of my grades are boarderline......but i brought up my mcat 9 points......its just the very average GPA that i worry about

 

[CKG85]

Hm...my file has been complete here for quite some time also. Anyone know roughly how many seats are already filled before I call them up? PCOM seems like too wonderful a school for me, haha. 😉

 

[237696]

wow really.................2 months away!!!!! mine is in two weeks......can someone tell me what to expect......was anyone here questioned about the not so stellar grades they got? What did they ask you?

Yeah, I know, I thought it was weird to notifiy me so quickly and then have the date be so far away. I've been reading about people getting invites in the last few weeks for interview dates that are before mine, which is weird, but I don't know what to make of it. On the one hand the quick turnaround with offering an interview made me think they really liked me, but then scheduling me so far away makes me think I'm at the bottom of their list. Who knows. I don't go until 2/24 though.

 

[PipiChen]

mine was completed back in late Dec 08, still no news.... meh 🙄

how quickly r they going through the pile? or they r simply not interested in mine oh well haha😱

 

[nevinleiby]

Any idea why PCOM's mcat scores to see fairly low relative to the other programs? I get the impression that the 8,8,8 (24) is just to meet the minimums, rather than the average of the current class. Anyone else?

It doesn't make me change my opinion of the program, but it seemed a little odd. Especially considering that some programs (KCUMB, Touro-NV) really seemed to seek me out, offering an interview without a secondary, even though I barely met the average mcat scores.

 

[bigyihoroi]

So today when I went to get the mail I found TWO envelopes from PCOM. They looked identical from the outside. And when I opened them...they were identical on the inside too...? 2 letters from dean of admission, exactly the same, with the supplemental application. Just thought I'd share in case anyone wants an extra 😀

If it's the supplemental application, one might be from PCOM-GA and the other one is from PCOM-PA. Just a thought!! 👍

 

[bigyihoroi]

Any idea why PCOM's mcat scores to see fairly low relative to the other programs? I get the impression that the 8,8,8 (24) is just to meet the minimums, rather than the average of the current class. Anyone else?

It doesn't make me change my opinion of the program, but it seemed a little odd. Especially considering that some programs (KCUMB, Touro-NV) really seemed to seek me out, offering an interview without a secondary, even though I barely met the average mcat scores.

I really wanna know too. PCOM seems to have the most people applying to among all D.O. schools (I believe second most is NYCOM). I remember Rebecca (Dean) said that they had 5500 applicants last year (for class of 2012) and the number for this year should continue to rise. If the pool of PCOM applicants have been going up every year, I would assume that it will become increasingly competitive and the admission should become more and more selective. So shouldn't the average MCAT be going up as well? But it doesn't seem to be happening but rather remains at the score of 24. 😕

 

[niranjan162]

I really wanna know too. PCOM seems to have the most people applying to among all D.O. schools (I believe second most is NYCOM). I remember Rebecca (Dean) said that they had 5500 applicants last year (for class of 2012) and the number for this year should continue to rise. If the pool of PCOM applicants have been going up every year, I would assume that it will become increasingly competitive and the admission should become more and more selective. So shouldn't the average MCAT be going up as well? But it doesn't seem to be happening but rather remains at the score of 24. 😕

thats probably a couple years old.

 

[Bleurberry]

I really wanna know too. PCOM seems to have the most people applying to among all D.O. schools (I believe second most is NYCOM). I remember Rebecca (Dean) said that they had 5500 applicants last year (for class of 2012) and the number for this year should continue to rise. If the pool of PCOM applicants have been going up every year, I would assume that it will become increasingly competitive and the admission should become more and more selective. So shouldn't the average MCAT be going up as well? But it doesn't seem to be happening but rather remains at the score of 24. 😕

I think the average now is much closer to 27 from the feedback I've been getting (not SDN feedback).

 

[bigyihoroi]

I think the average now is much closer to 27 from the feedback I've been getting (not SDN feedback).

hmm...really!!!but from what the admission staff told me on my interview day...they said that last year's average is 24. Maybe not this year i guess..

 

[Bacchus]

Nevermind, its finaid info.

 

[tdittyx2x3]

I think the average now is much closer to 27 from the feedback I've been getting (not SDN feedback).

According to a woman in the admission's office, the average is 8, 8, 8 for a total of 24.

I specifically asked her for 2012's matriculate data. She repeated back to me that she was looking at the 270 (or so) matriculates from the most recent class.

I agree that it is hard to believe with so many applicants. You would think that the admissions staff would make improving the avg MCAT a bit of a priority.

 

[phillypd]

Well is there anybody who was interviewed at this school and wait listed or rejected? I'm nervous.........always....

 

[EyeDR_oo]

According to a woman in the admission's office, the average is 8, 8, 8 for a total of 24.

I specifically asked her for 2012's matriculate data. She repeated back to me that she was looking at the 270 (or so) matriculates from the most recent class.

I agree that it is hard to believe with so many applicants. You would think that the admissions staff would make improving the avg MCAT a bit of a priority.

In all honesty I hope that the MCATs go down for all schools (not really, but my point is there). I know there is no other standardized measure for medical school, but I dont think i'm alone when I say #$#@ the mcats!

 

[phillypd]

i agree......................MCATS SUCKS

 

[tdittyx2x3]

Why would I prefer that the average MCAT for my future institution go down? Doesn't make much sense. Yea the test is hard but its not that hard. Anyone with reasonable intelligence and enough diligence (the much more important factor) can score a 24 on that exam.

 

[engineeredout]

Why would I prefer that the average MCAT for my future institution go down? Doesn't make much sense. Yea the test is hard but its not that hard. Anyone with reasonable intelligence and enough diligence (the much more important factor) can score a 24 on that exam.

Agreed. The science you have to know is very basic. Its all about being a good test taker.

 

[EyeDR_oo]

Why would I prefer that the average MCAT for my future institution go down? Doesn't make much sense. Yea the test is hard but its not that hard. Anyone with reasonable intelligence and enough diligence (the much more important factor) can score a 24 on that exam.

I just dont think its a valid exam to assess your abilities as a doctor seeing that it also tests other factors of your psychological mindset that may not be completely relevant. Thats all, just an opinion...I actually think its this pt. that osteo's dont solely discriminate on which often times lead them to making better doctors, but again just an opinion - and I only applied to osteos

Anyway good luck to all you PCOM'ers!! Its a great school, we had lots of events in Philly with your older guys; you should be looking forward to a great community!

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

It isn't supposed to assess your ability as a doctor. It's supposed to assess your abilities as a pre-med student. And I totally agree it has limited usefullness. Testing will never be 100% at predicting success in school or as a physician, but it is better than relying on LORs and GPA alone.

 

[rc4ch]

I got accepted to PCOM and my stats were killed by my MCAT(I hate that test).

Overall GPA: 3.88
Science GPA: 3.88
MCAT: 25

I think I got in because of my LOR from a DO that went to PCOM. I didn't even get an interview to CCOM, they just rejected me outright.

I really do think that shadowing a DO, even for only 3 days(3 hours each) like I did and getting that LOR really helps you. I shadowed an MD for 90 some hours, but the DO LOR is important. Also they asked about it in my interviews.

 

[237696]

I actually think standardized tests are a very valuable and necessary part of any admissions process. But what I resent about the MCAT, more than with any other standardized test like the SAT or LSAT, is the enormous potential for raising one's scores in a relatively short time with a $2000 prep course or other intensive prep strategies focused on cramming in content and test-taking strategies. This puts prospective applicants on uneven ground based on access and ability to pay for these options.

The math/verbal SAT's and the LSAT test critical thinking, comprehension, logic skills and, dare I say, to some extent plain old basic intelligence. You cannot buy that. Of course there are test taking strategies but there's really no way to "teach" someone who just doesn't get it and hasn't already mastered the material over years and years of formal education. I personally think they are a better measure of aptitude (not necessarily a great one, of course, but better in comparison).

The MCAT on the other hand (aside from the verbal section) focuses far more heavily on content knowledge which can be crammed and regurgitated by probably just about anyone given enough repetition and practice. Yes, even if you know all the science information but lack critical thinking skills you won't score super high. But someone who is highly intelligent and capable of learning very complicated material, and critically applying that material later on in practice, just doesn't have a chance of scoring very highly if they don't know certain specific definitions, reactions, formulas, etc. Which is where paying outrageous sums of money for intensive prep courses makes the difference- unfairly IMO.

You read stories of people here on SDN who took all the pre-req courses and then got like a 25 or 26 on the MCAT. Then they went and took a Kaplan course and two or three months later they got a 33. I guarantee you wouldn't see variability like that following an SAT or LSAT prep, no matter how expensive. So how valid and reliable a measure of aptitude for medical school can it really be if the scores can vary so much in a such a short time?

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

I actually think standardized tests are a very valuable and necessary part of any admissions process. But what I resent about the MCAT, more than with any other standardized test like the SAT or LSAT, is the enormous potential for raising one's scores in a relatively short time with a $2000 prep course or other intensive prep strategies focused on cramming in content and test-taking strategies. This puts prospective applicants on uneven ground based on access and ability to pay for these options.

The math/verbal SAT's and the LSAT test critical thinking, comprehension, logic skills and, dare I say, to some extent plain old basic intelligence. You cannot buy that. Of course there are test taking strategies but there's really no way to "teach" someone who just doesn't get it and hasn't already mastered the material over years and years of formal education. I personally think they are a better measure of aptitude (not necessarily a great one, of course, but better in comparison).

The MCAT on the other hand (aside from the verbal section) focuses far more heavily on content knowledge which can be crammed and regurgitated by probably just about anyone given enough repetition and practice. Yes, even if you know all the science information but lack critical thinking skills you won't score super high. But someone who is highly intelligent and capable of learning very complicated material, and critically applying that material later on in practice, just doesn't have a chance of scoring very highly if they don't know certain specific definitions, reactions, formulas, etc. Which is where paying outrageous sums of money for intensive prep courses makes the difference- unfairly IMO.

You read stories of people here on SDN who took all the pre-req courses and then got like a 25 or 26 on the MCAT. Then they went and took a Kaplan course and two or three months later they got a 33. I guarantee you wouldn't see variability like that following an SAT or LSAT prep, no matter how expensive. So how valid and reliable a measure of aptitude for medical school can it really be if the scores can vary so much in a such a short time?

I think in general I agree with you, with one caveat. MCAT prep books with most of the material are available at about $25-$75 and free at libraries across the nation. The same level of practice can be done without the Kaplan or TPR course. It takes more gumption but is doable (and probably involves buying the AAMC practice tests).

 

[237696]

I think in general I agree with you, with one caveat. MCAT prep books with most of the material are available at about $25-$75 and free at libraries across the nation. The same level of practice can be done without the Kaplan or TPR course. It takes more gumption but is doable (and probably involves buying the AAMC practice tests).

Okay, fair point. I think the review courses are way superior to going it alone with a prep book, but let's just assume one can reap the same points gain by burying their head in a review book for six weeks. That removes the cost discrimination angle but all my other points are basically still there.

What exactly is the MCAT supposed to measure? Whatever it is, I don't think it's something that should be subject to statistically significant improvement following a few weeks or even months with test prep material. A standardized exam should ideally measure those things which grades/transcripts and LORs cannot uniformly reveal- perhaps an element of basic intelligence/logical reasoning and then also the depth to which one has mastered scientific material over the course of several college years. It should attempt to predict natural aptitude and potential for learning the rigorous content in medical school. It shouldn't measure trivial knowledge or one's ability to engage in effective last-minute test prep cramming, and that's why I kind of feel that these tests should be designed in such a way that they are more or less immune to the effects of short-term content cramming and are almost entirely dependent upon the broad knowledge and critical thinking ability that one has honed over all their years in school.

I know some people have argued that this is the way future standard exams (COMLEX or USMLE) will work, but I argue that these tests are measuring different things. Those are tests of actual content mastery and clinical competence, not an aptitude predictor. The MCAT should predict whether you can do it (learn the med school material), then those tests assess whether you have done it. They shouldn't be compared in regards to design.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

the depth to which one has mastered scientific material over the course of several college years

Once you add this element it becomes something that is teachable. And influenced over the short term. I didn't study the 2nd time I took the MCAT, I just taught for a year for Kaplan. I didn't become smarter, I just became faster.

I totally agree it is imperfect and there are flaws, but I would say it is better than non-content related material for testing. And nothing is going to be a perfect predictor.

 

[niranjan162]

I actually think standardized tests are a very valuable and necessary part of any admissions process. But what I resent about the MCAT, more than with any other standardized test like the SAT or LSAT, is the enormous potential for raising one's scores in a relatively short time with a $2000 prep course or other intensive prep strategies focused on cramming in content and test-taking strategies. This puts prospective applicants on uneven ground based on access and ability to pay for these options.

The math/verbal SAT's and the LSAT test critical thinking, comprehension, logic skills and, dare I say, to some extent plain old basic intelligence. You cannot buy that. Of course there are test taking strategies but there's really no way to "teach" someone who just doesn't get it and hasn't already mastered the material over years and years of formal education. I personally think they are a better measure of aptitude (not necessarily a great one, of course, but better in comparison).

The MCAT on the other hand (aside from the verbal section) focuses far more heavily on content knowledge which can be crammed and regurgitated by probably just about anyone given enough repetition and practice. Yes, even if you know all the science information but lack critical thinking skills you won't score super high. But someone who is highly intelligent and capable of learning very complicated material, and critically applying that material later on in practice, just doesn't have a chance of scoring very highly if they don't know certain specific definitions, reactions, formulas, etc. Which is where paying outrageous sums of money for intensive prep courses makes the difference- unfairly IMO.

You read stories of people here on SDN who took all the pre-req courses and then got like a 25 or 26 on the MCAT. Then they went and took a Kaplan course and two or three months later they got a 33. I guarantee you wouldn't see variability like that following an SAT or LSAT prep, no matter how expensive. So how valid and reliable a measure of aptitude for medical school can it really be if the scores can vary so much in a such a short time?

I totally disagree with this. Ive never taken the LSAT, but when I took the SATs there was no critical thinking involved. You cant do the analogies without knowing the words and the math problems were math problems, straight forward, except for the 7 word problems or whatever it was. Ive heard the LSAT is pretty similar. The MCAT isnt a perfect test and I agree it may not be the best predictor of success or ability, but it definitely takes more intelligence to do good on the MCAT than the SATs. Often times questions in the PS part of the test combine knowledge from chemistry and physics, but they put in tricks that you have to think about.

The reason you have people who score 25 then take the course and do better is because they didnt have the disipline to study on their own and the course forces them to adhere to a schedule.

How good a predictor is this for med school I have no idea.