Penn vs. Yale vs. UCLA

[surfinghaole]

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I am admitted to Penn and Yale, waitlisted at UCLA, but think if I wrote an LOI I might have a good chance at getting in.

I am from Los Angeles originally and I go to college in Los Angeles right now. I love socal a lot, but I would be willing to go to the east coast if it's worth it (I am not a fan of the east coast though).

My Current perception:

Penn is the best all around

Yale is at least as good if not better than Penn in research, but almost definitely weaker in clinical education

UCLA is not as good as either (especially in global health, an area I am very interest in) but has the best location

My Current leaning:

I am leaning towards Yale, because the Yale system seems ideal. I am not a big studier at all. During undergrad, I spent most of my time pursuing all kinds of random stuff outside of class and just studying for class as much as I needed to. It seems like the Yale system grants a lot of freedom to students to experience what they think is most valuable in their education and study what they want to learn. That seems like my style. My perception is that Yale would also be a bigger partying med school, as Penn is not Pass/Fail like Yale for the first two years. I like social life. Maybe this is wrong though... someone should probably tell me.

Anyway, what do people think?

 

[bobdogsam43]

UCLA is as good as the others, in fact, you could argue it offers the most comprehensive medical education in the country. So IMO, unless you have a gut feeling about a particular school, there's no reason to leave LA for Penn or Yale. All are excellent schools but everything that Penn or Yale has UCLA will have plus it has the location and tuition advantages. Since you mentioned grading, UCLA is completely/truly P/F for all four years.

If you are into rankings, you will spend your third and fourth years in the #3 medical center in the country.

This process is deeply personal so at the end of the day make sure you choose a school that you feel most comfortable at...

 

[DrMattOglesby]

I voted UCLA because 1) it's a damn fine school, 2) it's in a damn fine locale, and 3) it's damn cheap (unless you're a HI resident??). 👍

 

[copingmethods]

I am leaning towards Yale, because the Yale system seems ideal. I am not a big studier at all. During undergrad, I spent most of my time pursuing all kinds of random stuff outside of class and just studying for class as much as I needed to. It seems like the Yale system grants a lot of freedom to students to experience what they think is most valuable in their education and study what they want to learn. That seems like my style. My perception is that Yale would also be a bigger partying med school, as Penn is not Pass/Fail like Yale for the first two years. I like social life. Maybe this is wrong though... someone should probably tell me.

Anyway, what do people think?

As bobdogsam mentioned, UCLA is also P/F. I know people in the class of 2012, and the class does a lot of partying!

 

[Penguick]

Any of these options would be great, though I would say that your gut instinct is probably going to be the right one. If you liked Yale more, then most likely that will be where you will be happiest, regardless of what we tell you.

 

[itsallthesame]

realize that many medical schools are pass fail. that does not mean that every grade of every exam that you take is not being recorded. it does not mean that when you dean's letter is written your exact rank for m1/2 won't be available, simply that your transcript will read all passes. who will ever look at your transcript? ever? every test matters no matter where you go.

i worry about ucla because they don't take full call and residents that i have talked to have felt their students to be under prepared as interns. this comes from within their system. plus, west la sucks. new haven also blows, although the sweetness of yale makes up for it. penn is very solid and philly is great. however, both of these schools have winter. if you are set on living in cali for the long term, go ucla. if you want the best all around pick, penn. if you want the quirky, cool, amazing research, but in a lame city school... yale.

 

[sevenmints]

realize that many medical schools are pass fail. that does not mean that every grade of every exam that you take is not being recorded. it does not mean that when you dean's letter is written your exact rank for m1/2 won't be available, simply that your transcript will read all passes. who will ever look at your transcript? ever? every test matters no matter where you go.

i worry about ucla because they don't take full call and residents that i have talked to have felt their students to be under prepared as interns. this comes from within their system. plus, west la sucks. new haven also blows, although the sweetness of yale makes up for it. penn is very solid and philly is great. however, both of these schools have winter. if you are set on living in cali for the long term, go ucla. if you want the best all around pick, penn. if you want the quirky, cool, amazing research, but in a lame city school... yale.

obviously, you don't know west la, if you think it sucks. it's a nice place to live for its weather, space, and safety. it's also right in the middle of the rest of southern california... which has different things in every direction... clubs, bars, restaurants, athletics, movies, beaches, forests, skiing, deserts, mexico, even farms... if you're so inclined to visit the central valley.

 

[surfinghaole]

yale actually doesn't rank students. most tests are optional and it is anonymous whether you pass or fail

 

[quirks]

yale actually doesn't rank students. most tests are optional and it is anonymous whether you pass or fail

I think you want to go to Yale. Go. 🙂
You don't need our permission or validation and going to one of these over the other is not an obvious mistake.

 

[bobdogsam43]

i worry about ucla because they don't take full call and residents that i have talked to have felt their students to be under prepared as interns

I don't worry about UCLA.......I could find just as many residents that say Penn, Yale, Harvard, and UCSF kids are all poorly prepared for their internships.....there's just no proof that UCLA kids aren't prepared.

 

[usermike8500]

If you're interested in global health, I'd say go to Yale. People outside the medical discipline will be most impressed with you if you go to this famous Ivy. Since global health entails a lot of politics and business, I think this is an important consideration.

 

[surfinghaole]

I think you want to go to Yale. Go. 🙂
You don't need our permission or validation and going to one of these over the other is not an obvious mistake.

I did say I was leaning there. I am just having trouble, because I am not at all research centric. I am interested in a future of clinical care (possibly at the international level involving public health policy). And it seems like clinical care seems to be weakest at Yale, even though I like their system best.

I also struggle, because I lived in Washington, DC for six months, and the weather there made me pretty miserable, so I don't know how I am going to take the northeast. I am a big surfer as well, and at Yale I would have to drive like an hour plus to go surf in freezing rhode island or long island.

In the end, I think it really comes down to balancing 3 issues of concern:
1. Location
2. Strength of Resources and Opportunities to Do What I Want to Do
3. Structure of the Curriculum

Right now for me, UCLA wins location, Yale wins structure of curriculum and Penn wins best resources for me.

How do I balance this, am I wrong to say that Penn wins in resources?

 

[quirks]

I also struggle, because I lived in Washington, DC for six months, and the weather there made me pretty miserable, so I don't know how I am going to take the northeast. I am a big surfer as well, and at Yale I would have to drive like an hour plus to go surf in freezing rhode island or long island.

The weather does suck in the north east. Although New Haven's actually not as bad as the rest of the state, it's still pretty bad. It's cold and rainy or just cold much of the year (early to mid Fall, Summer and mid to late Spring are nice though; Fall is beautiful, actually). Whenever Spring finally comes around, my base mood is much happier and it takes me a few days to realize that it's because it's finally warmer and sunny again.

That said, I'm still alive. I'm still sane, and I would live here for five years again if I had to. 🙂 I went from growing up in West Africa to going to school further in CT and yeah, that was a pretty miserable climate change, but I was okay then too. And it looks like it's gonna be another four years at least before I live somewhere sunny year round.

Weather affects people differently. Some crazy people even love the cold. I've learned to tolerate it, and I'm now at the point where it's not a huge deciding factor for me in terms of location. I still think if you're leaning toward Yale, it's worth it, but I can't really say for sure.

 

[Textuality]

Obviously I'm biased since I go to (and love) Penn.

Just wanted to weigh in real quick and say that Penn is very laid back, and there's pretty much a party going on every weekend (some are bigger and crazier than others of course). Also, Philly is a big metropolitan city, so there's a lot to do and a lot of culture here.

Also, while Yale's Pass/fail sounds ideal, it also means it's harder to distinguish yourself if you're trying to go for a really competitive residency. Whereas at Penn, those who have their heart set on RadOnc can bust their butts to get Honors, and have that show on their applications. This is all speculation since I'm just a first year, but I've heard it has merit.

Although in all honesty, I think UCLA is definitely the best location in terms of weather 🙂

Go with your gut, all 3 are great and you can't go wrong. Good luck!

 

[surfinghaole]

Thanks for all the help. All of you SDNers are awesome!!! I wish I discovered this site before I had already turned in all my aps and I was just waiting. It is a great support structure.

 

[FunRun]

Thanks for all the help. All of you SDNers are awesome!!! I wish I discovered this site before I had already turned in all my aps and I was just waiting. It is a great support structure.

where are you leaning towards?

 

[Jack28]

Disclosure: I'm going to Yale and know little to nothing about the other two schools. What I can offer you, though, are my own reasons for picking Yale. This is my thought process: You don't have to take any tests for the first two years at Yale since those grades don't actually matter for getting residency(some residency adcoms say that it does matter, but studies have shown that the grades you get the first two years don't really correlate well with clinical aptitude). This means you can build your studying around the USMLE Step 1 (which is arguably the most important factor for determining residency eligibility) from the very beginning, which has to increase your score. This is especially appealing to me because I always put off the long-term studying to prepare for the immediate. I guarantee you that no first-year is thinking about USMLE prep when they have an anatomy test at the end of the week. This will probably not be the case at Yale. So whereas most med schools will give you 1-3 months of "pure" study time, Yale gives you 2 years. Of course, that much freedom could hurt you, but it also means you can prepare for a ridiculously long time and kick major ass on Step 1. This is not to mention that that much freedom will be more conducive to getting you in the lab/community/wherever you want to be.

For the clinical years, Yale is Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail, so you can still distinguish yourself where you need to. I really don't think Yale's curriculum can be beat, so the only thing that should dissuade you is already knowing what kind of residency you want to do. Each of these schools has their various strengths in residency programs (no med school is "best" in every category), and you should take the time to see which med schools are affiliated with which residency programs and how strong these are recognized to be. The reason you should care is because you're probably going to be receiving letters of recommendation from the residents in that department, and if you're getting a LOR from someone at a very distinguished residency, that can open all sorts of doors (either because of connections or prestige, whatever). Additionally, a lot of the residency programs tend to be "inbred," that is, take students from their own med schools, simply because they know them better and "The devil you don't know is worse than the devil you do know." If you don't believe me, pick any residency at each of those schools and check where the current residents did medical school. The home institution is nearly always heavily over-represented. So if you ultimately want to live in LA, you should go to UCLA Med. If you wanted a residency at Penn because it's more prestigious, your chances of getting that residency are best at Penn. If you have no clue what kind of residency you want to do, then I think you make the choice based on where you think you can excel most.

I apologize for the lack of organization, but that's a basic summary of what I've found after reading books/online forums/etc.

Hope that helps,

 

[Jack28]

Haha, he/she picked Yale. Democracy Fail (according to the poll)

 

[pntgrd]

1. UCLA
2. Penn

(some distance)

3. Yale

 

[surfinghaole]

i chose yale over penn...

I am still waitlisted at UCLA. If I get in, I will think about UCLA when the time comes.

but yes, democracy fails... besides this is biased towards CA, there are way more CA kids on here than other places.

 

[bobdogsam43]

i chose yale over penn...

I am still waitlisted at UCLA. If I get in, I will think about UCLA when the time comes.

but yes, democracy fails... besides this is biased towards CA, there are way more CA kids on here than other places.

well thats one possible explanation but UCLA is arguably the best school on that short-list so the poll results arent too surprising

 

[scarletgirl777]

well thats one possible explanation but UCLA is arguably the best school on that short-list so the poll results arent too surprising

DEFINITELY the Cali bias talking. It's not any more arguable that UCLA is the best than that Penn or Yale is the bestt.

 

[bobdogsam43]

DEFINITELY the Cali bias talking. It's not any more arguable that UCLA is the best than that Penn or Yale is the bestt.

no bias....just my opinion. As far as I can tell in this thread there's no evidence of a California bias...no one knows where anyone is from.....that poll is supposed to be democratic lolll. The OP hasnt even been accepted at UCLA which makes this a double lol.....I don't entirely understand comparing schools you are accepted and waitlisted at.

 

[Jack28]

no bias....just my opinion. As far as I can tell in this thread there's no evidence of a California bias...no one knows where anyone is from.....that poll is supposed to be democratic lolll. The OP hasnt even been accepted at UCLA which makes this a double lol.....I don't entirely understand comparing schools you are accepted and waitlisted at.

You're lolzy without even realizing it.

 

[bobdogsam43]

You're lolzy without even realizing it.

nothing like an annoying 17 day bump