PokeWWon: A Wild Kanto Adventure - Champs Season 12 Practice Game Thread

[samac]

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It's PSV isn't it?

I think this has been hard for me to come to because I was also in the mayo village club so I can see how PSV's mind would work through everything. But the big thing is interactions between mayo and PSV pick up after Zenge's tracker stuff. Significantly. Almost like distancing.

Spoiler

town
town
true null (fight me)
town
town

self
town
town
town
scum

Why is Clem village?

Not trying to start a new wagon, but like, why?

Explain please?

Is town being encouraged to collaborate or combust?

I'm not loving my mayo vote with current thread state but also don't live the two leading wagons

Unyeet mayo
Yeet zenge?

I don't feel KayJay's posts were wolfy as compared to legit busy and I don't love a D1 genny as previously stated

Why Zenge?
And can you please answer approximately how many games we've played together?

Brief genny ISO:

This was clearly a joke regarding Clem's participation. But also have the niggling feeling there might be a packmate among those listed. Just a niggle.

Defense of JJJ, pocketing/whiteknighting or soft packmate defense. Given threadstate it's more likely the former

Wishy washy on samac

Bringing up Zenge and Mayo, making sure to leave room for shifties on both, chooses mayo in the end.

Ultimately, from genny's statements, mayo is most cleared. Now for the reverse.

So this was originally intended to be an analysis of all genny mentions but wow there are a lot! So I'll summarize.

Spoiler: Quotes and Thoughts

JJJ: initial soft townlean on genny, Jaynalysis, genny in his POE consistently, ultimately votes genny very early, supportive of genny wagon
Conclusion: strong support for Jay
Mayo:

Between this and genny's sus on him, feel confident with Mayo
AM: hopped off of me and onto genny at Santy's behest. Zero reason to hammer in a vote on a packmate like that. AM
moon: a bit of questioning from genny. More importantly, highly unlikely to be genny's packmate based on vote movements and momentum. moon
Samac: sat on the moon wagon for bit and was hesitant to switch to genny but ultimately did at a time when genny's death was not yet certain. samac
madrigal: tipped genny into the lead out of a 3-way tie at a time when they knew they were going to be off-thread. Likely unpaired. madrigal
SAR/vamp are a bit inconclusive. SAR mentions not minding a genny yeet but not wanting to do it D1, then chooses to vote Zenge instead. Personally think this comes more from a village POV but it's not definitive. Vampy has been scum-reading genny pretty consistently but was technically only on genny when she was already going down.
Dina called genny scum in the GTH exercise but I didn't see an explanation for that thought nor any kind of progression there. As samac pointed out, Dina was following her/Zenge's vote movements but ultimately stayed on moon rather than moving to genny. Not good. Dina
Now, Zenge... yeah, looks really bad. Strong defense of genny, saying she feels like Alabama, and starting a moon wagon when genny was in danger. Reading his ISO that includes genny thoughts is just incredibly pairing. Zenge

No, not interested in mayo. He was very vocally pro a genny vote. He's also independently shown a strong inclination to solve. Sorry, wolf papa. He's a pigeon villager.

They don't explode if you're making scrambled eggs!

@Zenge142 what is your POE outside of Mayo?

I'm using my posts judiciously!

To clarify, Zenge, you have only mayo as a solid wolfread and Clem as a wolf lean for general Clemmery. In a world where mayo is consensus village and Clem is Clem, where are you looking?

My mayo read is still town for the reasons stated previously.

I really, really enjoy you. I hope you stick around.

genny is more than happy to sacrifice herself for the good of the pack, or at least she has been when I've wolfed with her. So that is a possibility. A deepwolf lurker is also theoretically possible.

Mulling it over, two scenarios
1. Zenge is a wolf and is fakeclaiming. This fakeclaim is immediately invalidated if Zenge is yoten (obviously) or Mayo is yoten and is not mafia. It's a short-lived fakeclaim either way. Potentially buys him more time if he's the mafia vig, but then he'll die tomorrow.
2. Zenge is a villager and Mayo is a wolf.
3. Zenge and Mayo are both villagers.

Zenge, why haven't you considered mayo is a villager?

Thank you for understanding.
Let me lay it out specifically:
Worst case scenario is Zenge is the village tracker. Mayo is the odd night doctor and tried to doctor Santy last night, but Santy was strongarm killed. Then there are zero scum killed.

Oh no
Unvote mayo
Vote Zenge

Most common to fire off asap here.
The only thing I can see for holstering is mayo is not the vig and they knew they’d keep the shot for tonight and wanted to use a different power?

I'm not seeing in the rules that mafia can't use more than one power a night

I think if mayo were genuinely having a laugh, he'd push to kill you or AM given his stated dislike of plot armor.

I don't see any evidence against a Clem/mayo/genny trio. And then if that's the case, that would mean genny talking about him feeling towny when he hadn't posted yet was genny having a laugh.
She probably laughed either way, though.

Mayo was trying to tentatively get a vampy vote off the ground yesterday, too. So could've been "ugh this won't take off".

Also. Looks like mayo's only mention of Clem is asking why he's village read. So not out of the realm of possibility.

Zenge hadn't been tracked visiting the murderee so I don't think it's the same situation. Me exploring mafia teams also isn't preventing the search for the odd night doctor.

It's x1. It doesn't matter anymore, yeh?

Rn I am pondering, in no particular order:

Google Chrome
samac
JaggedJimmyJay
Animal Midwife
moonster

Firefox
KJQ
Dina
SAR
madrigal

Microsoft Edge
Clem
mayo*

well
this is probably obvious to everyone else, but this at least means Dina/mayo aren't packmates

I agree. The path forward is pretty clear.

I’m not even that upset if I get misyeeted. Because it still helps the village today.

I’m not sure what else I can say about it at this point.

I protected Santa for obvious reasons. I was certain zenge was wolfing and was trying to out the actual tracker on his way out.

I’ll stand by the tunnel. We both could have played it better, but it’s coming out in the villages favor.

I believe the odd doctor is Dina. Her claiming first, mayo messing up the name of his alleged PR, and I also believe wolf!mayo would CC for fun for the lulz but that's neither here nor there.
However, the mechanical tomfoolery of everyone visiting the same person N1 AND the tracker tracking one of the players to that person is astounding.

Why would I think zenge knew I visited anyone?

I thought he was an outed wolf trying to get the real tracker to role claim.

I don’t think he knew I was a PR at all.

Did Zenge's multiple attempts to get people on you despite threadstate not make you suspicious he'd seen something? Especially when no one CC'd tracker? And he claimed tracking you TO Santy?

And he happened to pick the one villager, in your view, who had actually visited Santy? Information he would almost certainly have had no way of knowing?
I don't buy it.

He said I killed Santy in a last minute fake claim.

That was not worth outing myself as a PR.

If he had claimed earlier, we could have talked and I probably would have role revealed.

It wasn't a fakeclaim, and agree to disagree on outting yourself. I mean, you were around for a bit after his claim, and you meme'd a bit, said his post was a hatecrime, then left. There was over an hour left to close at that point. So I just... don't get it.

It's not confirmed, but I am at this point rather confident I'll be voting for mayo. Obvious difference check between him and Dina and his claim just isn't making sense.
So I'm going to tentatively hunt the genny/mayo triplet.

This is an overt claim. Mayo was still on at this time.

I didn’t see that then, or now that I can remember.

You did. You responded to it. You called it a hate crime.

Several people today are saying that I should have role revealed last night to save zenge.

No, I don't think so. I'd say maybe five games? But I could be the one who's way off.

I don't think that's an accurate representation.

Yeah this was approaching EOD1.
Then again, no one was voting Clem at this time so it could theoretically be seen as a safe time to throw shade at a packmate. And D3 interactions are a lot harder to evaluate given mayo knew it was time to save face.

Looking at the timing of everything, the moon wagon was born and genny wagon solidified too rapidly for moon (if she is a wolf) and mayo to do anything. Zenge remained the most salient known village counterwagon the entire time, and thus there was nowhere else to go. The only possible wagon that seemed to be scouted was mine when AM voted me, but right after that the moon wagon took off and Zenge was a safer place to sit than attempt to get more momentum on me.
Moon is the last wolf. If she isn't, kill me tomorrow.

 

[samac]

Also voiced genny more likely to be wolf than moon, did not vote to save moon and minimal genny interactions (but I think we're all minimal there so less stock)

How often have you played with SAR? It surprises me that you would be sus of Zenge for being lurky on D1 yet claim a meta on SAR.

Agree to disagree.

Off the top of my head I know Zenge was a wolf in BoWWling because I also was, but at this point that was a long time ago.

Now that Dina quoted it. genny did seemed to me like, trying to blen in thread or like, awfully in line with thread consensus instead of being like, in their genny line of thoughts. The clem mention was a joke and should be take. as NAI .

I also agree with Jay saying the vote on PSV from Zenges is kinda uncharitable to PSV but idk. Mulling it over

what about when I quoted it 😔

It makes me feel like that was the outcome of the GTH exercise when I did it. I can't answer your second question because, quite frankly, I have no idea what affiliation anyone else is. I'm playing it based on my thoughts and feelings, not perceptions of town vs mafia control.

I am saying I believe wolfchat is necessary for his point to be believable. And yes, I am still village reading him.

It isn't good and I strongly disagree with her assertion that this JJJ is not the same JJJ who pocketed Lawpy. However, statistically and ethically, it is usually wrong to vote yeet genny D1.

Let me present the thread state.
Jay: this player feels towny. I'm super open to considering another possibility.
also Jay: I shall designate this player green
Jay, later: yes, you guys are right. Maybe we SHOULD vote there.
Examples: genny, vamp, KJQ, Zenge, myself.

So let me ask this, Jay. You have consistently argued for a strong town core. Why, then, are you nodding and agreeing with every possible yeet?

the top two contenders for a yeet both seem unreasonable? I have zero context for the whole "yeeting genny on D1 typically leads to them having been a towny", and i don't think it's fair to KJQ to not allow them to explain themselves and provide their own reads-- however, now that makes it extremely biased due to the *checked hand* 16 pages worth of reads and conversation between them stating their absence and elimination time.

i am unfortunately, once again leaning towards abstaining as unfavorable as that is, i cannot find a justification for either yeets. i don't see why others with scum reads arent put under more pressure? samac and i had our little back and forth, KJQ and genny are the top 2 contenders with scum/maf reads..

the current visual representation of my mind:

You can always just go off wagon!

If it comes down to it moon is more likely town than genny

Brief genny ISO:

This was clearly a joke regarding Clem's participation. But also have the niggling feeling there might be a packmate among those listed. Just a niggle.

Defense of JJJ, pocketing/whiteknighting or soft packmate defense. Given threadstate it's more likely the former

Wishy washy on samac

Bringing up Zenge and Mayo, making sure to leave room for shifties on both, chooses mayo in the end.

Ultimately, from genny's statements, mayo is most cleared. Now for the reverse.

So this was originally intended to be an analysis of all genny mentions but wow there are a lot! So I'll summarize.

Spoiler: Quotes and Thoughts

JJJ: initial soft townlean on genny, Jaynalysis, genny in his POE consistently, ultimately votes genny very early, supportive of genny wagon
Conclusion: strong support for Jay
Mayo:

Between this and genny's sus on him, feel confident with Mayo
AM: hopped off of me and onto genny at Santy's behest. Zero reason to hammer in a vote on a packmate like that. AM
moon: a bit of questioning from genny. More importantly, highly unlikely to be genny's packmate based on vote movements and momentum. moon
Samac: sat on the moon wagon for bit and was hesitant to switch to genny but ultimately did at a time when genny's death was not yet certain. samac
madrigal: tipped genny into the lead out of a 3-way tie at a time when they knew they were going to be off-thread. Likely unpaired. madrigal
SAR/vamp are a bit inconclusive. SAR mentions not minding a genny yeet but not wanting to do it D1, then chooses to vote Zenge instead. Personally think this comes more from a village POV but it's not definitive. Vampy has been scum-reading genny pretty consistently but was technically only on genny when she was already going down.
Dina called genny scum in the GTH exercise but I didn't see an explanation for that thought nor any kind of progression there. As samac pointed out, Dina was following her/Zenge's vote movements but ultimately stayed on moon rather than moving to genny. Not good. Dina
Now, Zenge... yeah, looks really bad. Strong defense of genny, saying she feels like Alabama, and starting a moon wagon when genny was in danger. Reading his ISO that includes genny thoughts is just incredibly pairing. Zenge

In a world where it isn't Zenge/Dina, it might be time to hunt in the realm of Clem. But at this point Zenge unfortunately comes off the worst genny-wise.
I do hope he comes back, though.

Didn't like the moon wagon and didn't want to vote genny because she wasn't here and hadn't been for many hours. Generally speaking, I don't super love yeeting people when they aren't present because it feels kinda stinky. But I said I would've hopped to genny to break a tie between her and moon if need be. Ultimately my vote was unnecessary to flip genny so I just stayed put.

 

[samac]

Whoops. Forgot my spoiler.

 

[samac]

I cannot find a single time of genny interacting with PSV.

 

[samac]

madrigal and mayo didn't interact one time. Not once.
He only quoted her once in a wall of don't claim posts.
All mentions from mayo about mad appear to be in relation to Zenge.


gbjlkdhkjshkjbgkljbghkbjhbgfkljlhbg

Spoiler

Current thoughts before bedtime:

- Not a huge fan of "falling on one's own sword" Zenge
- Finding out that I voted correctly was more adrenaline then I've had in months
- Rip santy
- Still obsessed with Vamp's humor, I'm towning her until I'm dead purely for that
- Side-eyeing everyone who didn't vote for genny seems to be the way to go rn, and since there are two factions there I'm thinking Moon/Mayo or Zenge/Dina WW pairings
- I like chaos, I will continue to thonk anyone who mentions me

[1]

11 townies left, 2 mafia left. Even if we're wrong tonight, that's still much better odds for town. My confidence is at a 7.5

Least Likely: Samac, Vampyrica, AM

Me being a deeply mistrustful person: JJJ, PSV, Moon, SAR

More Likely: Dina, Zenge, KJQ

PoE: Mayo (worst condiment), Clem

Random quotes, but this was the state of the thread. Confidence that this was a fake claim and reconditions NOT to counter claim.

People were saying if it wasn’t zenge then they would vote me, which I encouraged because I knew I could role reveal to save myself if I needed to.

That didn’t work out as I expected, but we still got a wolf

Dina reads town to me, but maybe we shouldn't yeet mayo off a plane. That seems kinda ouchie

Not a fan of the clem is gonna clem excuse, but I have no meta to go off of smooth grind quota fight psychology

Gonna wait to cast so we don't hammer but unless something changes in the next 83 minutes mayo seems the way to go

I did not like how she reacted to me mentioning her at all last night and when she voted genny the vote was tied 2/2/2 with genny and mayo on the board.
She does not get to coast on her vote today.
She must do more than coast on that vote today.

I mean, alright, we can talk about this!


1. I saw you mentioned me and wanted to ask you about it, that's about all that happened. Like you said, been kinda coasting (I guess noob status helps a little there), so was excited to maybe be iso'd or be part of any other discussion.
2. I don't think that's true? There are s o m a n y posts here and I was getting ready to go to class but I'm pretty sure I voted genny when she was majority or was talked up to be. No matter what, if I was a wolf and had the opportunity to sway the vote away from genny or mayo that first night, why wouldn't I take that option/vote for whoever the third person was?
3. Let me know what I can do to sway your opinion, as I offered last night (or overreacted as you claim). Finally starting to get my bearings game-wise and while I'm pretty far from creating spreadsheets I'm happy to help!

____________________________________(so full disclaimer who knows if I'm iso'ing correctly but here's my attempt?)______________________________________

Right off the bat yeeting mayo, strategy? meta? who knows, not i

oh okay she's good, be scared

oh okay she's good, be scared

immediately hops off the mayo suspicion (while not unyeeting them)? before said mayo ever posted? again no clue what's meta and what's strategy here but okay

Goes directly for the noobs. hm.

Oh there we go, tries to dispel suspicion odd but okay. tmi influence?

Makes fun of someone else doing it when she also did. I am looking.

Well that aged like milk

Well that aged like milk.

Really no clue where this came from and then jumped down my throat when I dared ask. Not a fan.

Conclusion: Super spicy villager or wolf? The world may never know

I thought she was spicy just coming after me but ngl the out the gate pointing fingers three days in a row (mayo -> dina -> me), immediately trying to clear mayo from any suspicion presumably after she actually looked at her role for the first time, and two potentially catastrophic reads (the wolf as town and doctor as wolf) makes me a lot more suspicious of her. I'm leaning wolfy now 😬

PSV- I see those best wolf awards, I know she's good and this is lowkey just because I needed a fourth

Samac- *gestures at this entire day* Also not a fan of the out the gate accusing of all three days and general reads

Clem- Haven't seen too much, also not interested in solving, and the mayo relations too

Moon- Some suspicion in general, seems to be paired with genny by other people, also why you trying to get clem and gang up on me hello

I’ve had a lot of people ask me my thoughts on AM, but I want to know yours independently.
Outside of her voting genny and mayo how do you feel about her? Do you think we’re getting duped? Why is she still alive? Should be looking there more seriously?
Thoughts?
@madrigal01 @KayJayQueue @moonstermash @SARdoghandler @potentialsheltervet

Sorry y'all had class but just quick thoughts before I go to bed. Have some appointments through out the day but will at least be reading and will hop on hopefully after everything to try and help. I know I haven't been as active as anyone else, just been a bad time for such an involved game!

If I'm doing everything right (please correct me if I'm wrong) there are 7 people left, 6 Vanilla Town and one Ninja Mafia. The ninja and roleblocker flavors don't seem too important now if I'm reading this right? It's mostly if other PRs are in play, and now there are none left. I think we're in a generally safe spot right now, potentially could choose wrong 2 "days" in a row and still come out on top, though obviously not the best option.

I don't really have any thoughts on the remaining players. I'm honestly shocked I've made it this far tbh
The numbers of posts are really interesting work, thanks for putting it together AM.
Most everyone's posts for me have been NAI. I've come to realize it's a lot harder to play mafia online than in person, body language is a huge thing for me I guess lol

I still don't like Samac's way of playing, but I'm unsure if that should make her a wolf. I do think the abrupt switch on mayo is suspicious though, as Moon mentioned.

I would like to hear AM's reasoning for voting PSV out of the gate. It was my understanding that Moon being next was consensus, but obviously we don't have JJJ to lead the charge anymore so.

SAR's been quiet these past couple days but I'm not one to talk, real life always comes first so I get it

I like that KJQ has been defending me as noob/town a lot, but even that can be wolfy sometimes. I think I mostly have a townread on them though, they seem genuinely interested in trying to solve.

I'm kinda with KJQ here where I'm confused as to why they're calling themselves mechanically cleared. I'm happy that they voted the two wolves but so did most everybody lol so I don't think that town clears them specifically. They haven't had particularly strong takes outside of today so I understand why they are still alive; why would a wolf kill someone that isn't causing them to be accused? Other than knowing they come from MU that's about all my thoughts on them

 

[samac]

I have class in 5 minutes, so I have to get going. I have little suspicion, but like y'all said it's mostly been based on meta of which I have none being noob. Not proud of bandwagoning, but I quite literally have nothing to go off of so 🤷‍♀️

#### yeet Genny ####

This is the only thing referencing genny.
hnnnnnghhhhhh

 

[samac]

SAR/genny
I feel very null about this.

Spoiler

i like what santy, jjj, SAR, and Clem have done so far.

All my reads are vibes.

Are you vibing any particular direction right now?

@JaggedJimmyJay GTH reads, in roster order because that was easier to find. And likely still biased from thread state earlier today due to my skim read being superficial at best

1. Animal Midwife - town?
2. JaggedJimmyJay - town
3. genny - scum
4. Clem J - scum
5. holdthemayo - scum
6. Dinashadow - town?
7. Zenge142 - scum
8. KayJayQueue - town
9. potentialsheltervet - town
10. Santygrass - town
11. moonstermash - town?
12. vampyrica - scum
13. madrigal01 - town
14. SARdoghandler - town
15. samac - town

?s are for weaker reads, but committed due to the GTH of the exercise. Moonster has slipped a little from my early D1 more town read

I don't hate a genny yet because I haven't felt the genny way. But I do kinda hate it on D1 for reasons already long stated

I'm not loving my mayo vote with current thread state but also don't live the two leading wagons

Unyeet mayo
Yeet zenge?

I don't feel KayJay's posts were wolfy as compared to legit busy and I don't love a D1 genny as previously stated

I'm bowing out for tonight y'all because my country is deciding their date and I'm more anxious than I thought I would be about it all so cannot dedicate headspace to finding wolves until tomorrow

I agree though that after how that went down, Dina and Zenge need to be solved. I want to re-read Dina tomorrow with fresh eyes and re-evaluate my test of moving the Zenge yeet forward yesterday in a possible Zenge-genny pack world to see if it changes the village point I gave to him for the lack of jumping it seemed to cause

I wanted to reply to this early JJJ since I know you said you may not be here closer to close. I had initially voted Zenge because of the soft scum lean but also because at that time it pushed us closer to a 3 way tie and I wanted to see who jumped to question me about it, and whether anyone would jump ship from the other yeet wagons. My hope was that it would give me more information to sort Zenge's slot better.

Once the scrambling started happening I got spooked that my "test vote" would accidentally end up with Zenge yeeted - and my brain was telling me that he can often go down early and I felt bad about that without having a solid case for the argument. I didn't want to yeet genny D1 as I previously stated, especially with her seemingly not being on thread to defend herself. Moonster had slipped to the low end of my village pile at that time, but I also wasn't going to vote there. I ended up on Clem as I hadn't seen any village contribution from him so he's higher on my scum list than all the other players mentioned here

(Tl;Dr I'm too sentimental for this game)

Okay so I went back to re-look at the timing and reactions around my Zenge vote for yesterday as I said I would. So when I jumped onto Zenge, KJQ had 4 votes and genny had 3 votes. Zenge had been up and down in votes the whole cycle so in addition to having him in my mafia GTH reads, I thought it would be interesting to put him into a potential tie situation and see if anyone jumped. By voting Zenge, I brought him up to 3 votes as well. The KJQ yeet seemed to be losing steam by that point.

I figured that if there was a sudden pile on, that it was more likely that Zenge was actually village and maybe wolves would use that as a justifyable opportunity to push away from another packmate (be it KJQ or genny). Interestingly, it was right after this that the moonster yeet started and the scramble to genny shortly after. With the knowledge now that genny was a wolf and that the KJQ yeet was starting to face more pressure - a genny/Zenge pack is not out of the realm of plausible given that particular vote pattern I think.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

madrigal and mayo didn't interact one time. Not once.
He only quoted her once in a wall of don't claim posts.
All mentions from mayo about mad appear to be in relation to Zenge.


gbjlkdhkjshkjbgkljbghkbjhbgfkljlhbg

I believe he mentioned her once. I saw at one point he brought up "the noob" and said "Encanto is town"

 

[samac]

I believe he mentioned her once. I saw at one point he brought up "the noob" and said "Encanto is town"

Ah. Makes it hard when im searching name variations. Was the noob her or vamp?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Ah. Makes it hard when im searching name variations. Was the noob her or vamp?

The noob he was mentioning was actually KJQ. I believe this is in part why she put "not new noob" in her profile lol
He was putting her in his POE. When someone responded to that questioning if that meant mad, he clarified with "Encanto is town"

 

[potentialsheltervet]

The Mafia Factional Kill is Mandatory. If the mafia do not submit a target for their kill, then someone will be chosen at random from among the players not on their team, and a random player among the mafia will be chosen to carry out the kill.

alright mayo, let's play a game - who do you think my partner is?

Gun to my head
Clem, PSV, SAR or the noob

Probably in that order

noob meaning madrigal?

why?

The other one

Bruno?

KJQ

The encanto kid is village

Here

 

[SARdoghandler]

I am trying so hard to pay attention at work but keep refreshing the thread hoping someone has an aha moment lol

Agree. And my day is packed work appointments so I don't have time to do isos until tonight.

My gut says it's PSV. My heart wants it to be won't because she sounded so villagey off the bat but it makes logical sense

I also feel like the ghost of AM will personally spank us all if we let PSV slide and lose. 😂

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Oh. Ignore the top quote. I was going to quote it for a discussion that has passed

 

[samac]

Oh. Ignore the top quote. I was going to quote it for a discussion that has passed

..... that's a rojo isn't it?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

My gut says it's PSV. My heart wants it to be won't because she sounded so villagey off the bat but it makes logical sense

BUT IT AIN'T

 

[samac]

ooftha

 

[SARdoghandler]

I know that mechanically voting to no vote is the correct move today. But that puts the final day on Friday and if I get dragged to end game I will barely be around as that's my long work day. My heart wants to be done today, for better or worse

 

[potentialsheltervet]

..... that's a rojo isn't it?

Not at all. I had quoted it during discussion last night about LYLO because I was going to talk about the kill being mandatory so the wolf having to narrow the POE if the POE is everyone, but then I didn't wind up making a post.
Why would I quote the rules for wolfchat?

 

[samac]

I know that mechanically voting to no vote is the correct move today. But that puts the final day on Friday and if I get dragged to end game I will barely be around as that's my long work day. My heart wants to be done today, for better or worse

I don't think it is mechanically the right move. As it stands today 3/4 villagers have to vote together. Someone can **** off and do their own thing. In F3 there's 2 villagers and they have to find each other and be right. I don't like it

 

[potentialsheltervet]

The reason I'm pro not voting is two-fold. One, because I know voting me today is what is likely to happen and that means losing the game, but also because of the aforementioned POE thing. If we're at a point where no one is truly cleared, the wolf has to narrow the POE through the factional kill

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I don't think it is mechanically the right move. As it stands today 3/4 villagers have to vote together. Someone can **** off and do their own thing. In F3 there's 2 villagers and they have to find each other and be right. I don't like it

OH. Oh. I just realized something.
Yes, we should absolutely not no-vote today. Just don't vote me.

 

[samac]

The reason I'm pro not voting is two-fold. One, because I know voting me today is what is likely to happen and that means losing the game, but also because of the aforementioned POE thing. If we're at a point where no one is truly cleared, the wolf has to narrow the POE through the factional kill

You mentioned earlier you're keeping me clear. Is that not the case?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

OH GOD MY CLASS STARTED SIX MINUTES AGO

 

[SARdoghandler]

The reason I'm pro not voting is two-fold. One, because I know voting me today is what is likely to happen and that means losing the game, but also because of the aforementioned POE thing. If we're at a point where no one is truly cleared, the wolf has to narrow the POE through the factional kill

But if we agree on top suspects, the wolf would just use that to guide who they take to f3 and then only need to convince one villager.

Unless we literally discuss nothing today so as to not give them the ability to use that against us but that's not helpful either

 

[potentialsheltervet]

You mentioned earlier you're keeping me clear. Is that not the case?

I don't freaking know anymore. I need to go back and reread day one.
But regardless I'm talking about the collective idea of the POE. KJQ is casing you atm

 

[samac]

SAR/mayo
I just don't think I can get over SAR putting both genny and mayo as wolves in the GTH, voting mayo with genny when everything was tied up.
But the interactions aren't clearing.

Spoiler

Asking me questions based on meta is not going to be a strong suit of mine.

That said, isn't mayo one of the players that always has a policy yeet? In which case, I'd expect him to make the same opening post regardless, but perhaps with more dedication to it if wolf in an attempt to get that village read for consistency

As the architype of serious players, I can't help but question this take. While on one hand, a casual adherence to an underlying freewheeling, even epicurean extremes these games, I don't want to see them descend to the hedonistic depths I've seen in the past.

Let me share a story. I had a friend in elementary school, Billy John. I never understood why he had two first names, but he did.

Anyway, we used to be really serious about our games of connect-four. One spring recess, we decided to put a wager on it. SEVEN DOLLARS!

That was all the money I had at the time. You have to realize, I was a child. That was serious money.

Billy John won.

I was devestated.

"Double or nothing!" I said, knowing that I could never make good on the debt if I lost.

Billy John agreed. I lost again.

"Double or nothing" I said. Billy John agreed again and once again I was in the hole more money than I could ever possibly hope to pay back. My parents gave me an allowance of a dollar a week. That was fair at the time, but it would take half a year to earn back what I had lost.

"Double or nothing"

I shocked myself as the words left my mouth.

This time however, fate was on my side. I WON!!!

Confidently, I was back to zero. Billy John was devastated. A fortune having been ripped from his grasp, I could tell he was mad. Honestly, I was mad.

"Loser has to leave, forever" These were the terms that Billy John laid down for the final game. Despite myself, I accepted.

I'd never played for the like before, or since.

It was an epic game. We filled the entire board. With the last piece, the very last piece, my red checker slid into place for a diagonal win. "Connect Four!"

I had won.

To my eternal regret, Billy John was a man of his word.

I don't know what he said to his parents to convince them, but the next week they moved out of town. Not just out of town. Not just out of state, but all the way to Iowa.

It's been 20 years and I haven't seen him since.

I've never seen a greater representation of sportsmanship, and honestly, I'd be offended if I see anything less during this game.

Having not even actually read Mayo's post, THIS is Mayo's based 😂

Unyeet SAR
Yeet mayo

Are you seeing a parallel from Mayo's wolfing games to this one? Or is this based on finding something in this game specifically to be questionable?

Of the people with enough of a presence on thread to evaluate, I'm trying to decide if I feel worse about Zenge's thought process feeling opportunistic (but may just be that it's different to how I process, which I think happens not infrequently between me and zenge) or about Mayo popping in but not really contributing anything besides his usual **** posting

Going to

Yeet Mayo

I need to see more town effort than what he has done so far. He can be a solid villager when he wants but I haven't seen any evidence for that in his posts so far

I think the mayo I'm voting for is the same as the mayo the others are voting for, actually 😂

V
V
V
V
V

Stating the obvious, JJJ is clearly and aggressively town
Santy and SAR appear both have been active and Santy is trying to solve

AM voting on me early because she is frustrated I'm not playing the way she wants me to is very on brand for D1 village AM. I don't think she would try that play as a wolf since she knows I'll call her on it.

PSV and Moon are both village leans right now

Of the votes on me genny feels the most disingenuous. Path of least resistance without having to justify it later. I expect more from Genny

Samac said scum on the list above, but it's more that she feels off. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she is distracted by her monopoly tournament, but she's not her normal aggressive villager yet.

Zenge - the JJJ Zenge interactions actually remind me of how Zenge usually catches an early game wolf by noticing something none of the rest of us have.


The three noobs - Need to see more
Dina - need to see more
Clem - Has never been village to my knowledge. Also need to see more.

I'm not loving my mayo vote with current thread state but also don't live the two leading wagons

Unyeet mayo
Yeet zenge?

I don't feel KayJay's posts were wolfy as compared to legit busy and I don't love a D1 genny as previously stated

Okay I went back and also did a skim of early D2 given Zenge's claim

I don't like that it took a long time for him to bring up anything about Mayo and then when he did it was... Lukewarm? Like in a village!Zenge world if he had been NKed there's absolutely nothing prior to his self-yeet that would have drawn me to the conclusion that he had tracked Mayo as he claimed. On the other hand, the way he went about yeeting Mayo and then himself does feel very frustrated villager. The problem is that I think Zenge is a good enough player to be able to construct that when he's wolfing

I agree that I think we need his flip in order to validate the parking

He hasn't outright said I don't think? But has heavily implied Mayo

Gun to my head
Clem, PSV, SAR or the noob

Probably in that order

Yeah I don't buy mayo suspecting Zenge from d2 if he is actually the odd night doctor. How else would Zenge have known Mayo visited Santy if he wasn't the village tracker? Wolves don't have a tracker I think?

Clearly I need to go read all the JOAT abilities again

Crap nevermind, depending on which wolf genny was, there was both a tracker and a watcher wolf power possibly in play. However, mayo has never said that Zenge may have used one of those abilities to see him visit Santy in the wolf!Zenge theory yesterday so I still kind of hate Mayo's progression yesterday

Yes, today. I'm trying to make Mayo's progression and thoughts from yesterday make sense if he is not exactly wolf!Mayo but I'm finding more points for wolfish defense who knows he's caught rather than a village doctor trying to figure out why his action was seen

This. The logic isn't followable even when trying to from a village perspective. Mayo is a much higher wolf hit chance than Dina today

Why samac specifically for mayo?

Do you think this could potentially be a wolf trying to distance from mayo knowing that the jig was up and trying to gain credit.

I'm also reading PSV village here but if we end up stuck later, that's something that jumped out from your analysis

I’ve provided town and wolf reads, but happy to do so again.


Town:
JJJ - obvious. Has been driving the discussion toward a solid village bloc. Getting as much information out as possible. Doesn’t fit well with Dina.

AM - Gennyvote clears her. I was reading her village before, but would be either way

Samac - was sus of her D1 but came around based on Genny vote and gameplay since

Madrigal - no big aha moment, but is playing like a friendly new townie making a good effort.

Fringes, likely town:

SAR - felt great D1, but has fizzled over the past day or two. Could be busy IRL, but the inconsistency is there. Fits with Dina in theory

Moon - Based on content, I can’t help but call moon village. The point about the D1 moon wagon makes sense,

KJQ - has moved up my reads as she has become more engaged with the game today. Still compatible with Dina, but less likely that the three below.


Wolf:
Dina - this is the only read I can say with 100% certainty

PSV - probably pairs the best with Dina leading up until today.

Today, Some of the questioning of me seemed a bit disingenuous. Both suggesting I should and shouldn’t have acted differently with last night without really suggesting what that would have been. Timeline doesn’t add up super well.

Clem - Has contributed nothing of value that I’ve seen. That may be NAI for Clem. He’s the player that is most compatible with a Hail Mary CC in my book.

Okay. Brain fogging. Advantage of 24/24 is that I have a whole other day to recover from whatever bug I picked up

Yeet Mayo

FAIR WARNING MAYO IS ONE VOTE FROM HAMMER

so that hopefully I don't mess anyone up

 

[potentialsheltervet]

But if we agree on top suspects, the wolf would just use that to guide who they take to f3 and then only need to convince one villager.

Yeah I had been thinking it would be better for the wolf to kill once for maximum chaos and because of the narrowing POE thing but then I remembered hammering and was like oh. Duh.
fart

 

[potentialsheltervet]

SAR/mayo
I just don't think I can get over SAR putting both genny and mayo as wolves in the GTH, voting mayo with genny when everything was tied up.
But the interactions aren't clearing.

Yeah I agree. I maintain that if SAR is wolfing here, this was a genius move and she deserves to win.

 

[samac]

I don't freaking know anymore. I need to go back and reread day one.
But regardless I'm talking about the collective idea of the POE. KJQ is casing you atm

I get she is casing me, she has cased me on and off the whole game. I'm not surprised by that.
I am a little surprised by you though because you know me.

I think if we do go to F3 I am likely to die tonight and if I was village I wouldn't want to lose my most sure village read from the voting pool.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

hooooooooonestly my POE is probably most accurately madrigal/KJQ. KJQ would have to be pulling off magnificent wolf theatre with mayo. But with madrigal, I totally see genny saying "blessed noob, go forth".
The JJJ kill N4 is still baffling to me from a wolf!mad view though.

 

[samac]

Yeah I agree. I maintain that if SAR is wolfing here, this was a genius move and she deserves to win.

If she is my trust of her would be significantly diminished in future games.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Idk why I can't tag madrigal but hello mad, can we have some opinions? Thoughts?

 

[samac]

Idk why I can't tag madrigal but hello mad, can we have some opinions? Thoughts?

@madrigal01

 

[potentialsheltervet]

@madrigal01

Thank you, SDN wouldn't let me for some reason

 

[samac]

Also @KayJayQueue do you have an example of your wolf games I could look at?

 

[samac]

@potentialsheltervet can you point me to the interactions between KJQ and mayo that you think are damning?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

@potentialsheltervet can you point me to the interactions between KJQ and mayo that you think are damning?

I wouldn't say damning, a few things feel super unlikely to be wolf theatre to me.

Spoiler: Within

Don't give up man.
We just want that classic Zenge magic if you are town
Just because I think this push is nonsense doesn't mean I want you to give up

That’s not what it seemed like tbh

What did it seem like?
I'd love to hear more thoughts from you. Especially as an outsider

This comes down to SND meta. Which, to be honest, is something that drives me crazy and is probably responsible for the crazy village win ratio on this site.

There are several players who NEVER EVER bus (AM, shorty)
There are several players who almost never bus (samac, zenge, psv)
A lot of us are fine with bussing if the moment calls for it (Me, others)
There are a few players who will bus anything that howls... but they rarely play

It seemed like you were trying to shut him up and acted like his posting was legitimately offensive and/or insulting and not worth your time. That doesn’t really read as “hey don’t give up!”

I thought/think, it was a weak push. He knows AM and Samac's metas very well. AM would never bus and Samac would never do it in a last minute scramble unless it was maybe to save herself.

That push was bad and he knows it, so it makes me sus. Mostly because he has a long history of being a great player. I am annoyed that he would ask a question of me that he knows both of us know the answer to. I don't think town zenge would waste a post on that.

Regardless of affiliation, I like the guy and don't want him to quit.

I agree, but on SDN you are wrong

Well maybe since there are a few new players that wouldn’t know any of the things you stated here, maybe be a bit more charitable about not basing so much on unwritten rules that everyone except for three of us (that are all still alive) would apparently understand. Because without this explanation, your actions didn’t make sense to me and felt extremely harsh. And if this continues, it basically makes it impossible for the three of us to contribute successfully towards a town win if meta is the main basis for everyone’s solves outside of us three.

Oh cool. Guess I’m not needed here then.

First off, this is super towny.

Secondly, sorry if it seemed like I was targeting new players. There is a long and well established history of certain players opinions on bussing. You might not know that, and I would have gladly explained for your benefit, but Zenge knows the answer to that question. He's literally married to a player who is the answer to that question.

Fwiw, I have been pretty opposed to yeeting new players due to differences in play style from other sites and might appreciate a reciprocal consideration.

 

[samac]

I wouldn't say damning, a few things feel super unlikely to be wolf theatre to me.

I was just looking through those, thanks

 

[samac]

I wouldn't say damning, a few things feel super unlikely to be wolf theatre to me.

fair enough. and that is all d1 so before the debacle.

Here was what I compiled, and if it was all post track I'd be concerned but it wasn't.

Spoiler

I don't like the KJQ vote today. They haven't done anything at all.

I just don't see it on D1

Don't give up man.
We just want that classic Zenge magic if you are town
Just because I think this push is nonsense doesn't mean I want you to give up

That’s not what it seemed like tbh

What did it seem like?
I'd love to hear more thoughts from you. Especially as an outsider

This comes down to SND meta. Which, to be honest, is something that drives me crazy and is probably responsible for the crazy village win ratio on this site.

There are several players who NEVER EVER bus (AM, shorty)
There are several players who almost never bus (samac, zenge, psv)
A lot of us are fine with bussing if the moment calls for it (Me, others)
There are a few players who will bus anything that howls... but they rarely play

It seemed like you were trying to shut him up and acted like his posting was legitimately offensive and/or insulting and not worth your time. That doesn’t really read as “hey don’t give up!”

Well as someone with no meta on anyone in this game, I won’t be influenced by meta that can be manipulated to get those familiar with each other to falsely read them as town if they are scum. Meta is never foolproof or there’d be no reason to play mafia.

I thought/think, it was a weak push. He knows AM and Samac's metas very well. AM would never bus and Samac would never do it in a last minute scramble unless it was maybe to save herself.

That push was bad and he knows it, so it makes me sus. Mostly because he has a long history of being a great player. I am annoyed that he would ask a question of me that he knows both of us know the answer to. I don't think town zenge would waste a post on that.

Regardless of affiliation, I like the guy and don't want him to quit.

I agree, but on SDN you are wrong

Well maybe since there are a few new players that wouldn’t know any of the things you stated here, maybe be a bit more charitable about not basing so much on unwritten rules that everyone except for three of us (that are all still alive) would apparently understand. Because without this explanation, your actions didn’t make sense to me and felt extremely harsh. And if this continues, it basically makes it impossible for the three of us to contribute successfully towards a town win if meta is the main basis for everyone’s solves outside of us three.

Oh cool. Guess I’m not needed here then.

First off, this is super towny.

Secondly, sorry if it seemed like I was targeting new players. There is a long and well established history of certain players opinions on bussing. You might not know that, and I would have gladly explained for your benefit, but Zenge knows the answer to that question. He's literally married to a player who is the answer to that question.

Fwiw, I have been pretty opposed to yeeting new players due to differences in play style from other sites and might appreciate a reciprocal consideration.

Good to know, that reasoning hold no weight with me

I have a feeling that if you flip town, I’d be the target day 4 (day 3 will be Dina, I can’t say how I think that flip will go, I haven’t looked into it yet) and I’ll be accused of having TMI and white knighting by defending you after that. It’ll be fun to watch those that were clearing me today turn on me by week’s end but at least that means they won’t kill me!

If you flip scum, gg you got me lol

Oops I didn’t know that reply to mayo was still chilling in the text box lol I thought I was being too sassy and decided not to post it…but there it is.

For any of the noobs I would be glad to answer.

AM has never, ever, bussed. She would throw a game before doing so.

Samaca would almost never bus. The chaotic events of last night make it hard for me to believe that Samac would do a last-minute waffle off of a villager onto a packmate. She definitely wouldn't have jumped packmate to packmate. I can't actually remember her bussing, but maybe @Animal Midwife can correct me. This doesn't fit her wolf meta at all. She's a powerwolf.

For the record, I am not sus of AM. Just samac.

Town
Moon
madrigal
JJJ
AM
Townlean
Vamp
Zenge
PSV
Null
SAR
Scumlean
dina
clem
Scum
mayo
samac

vote mayo

Same. I have no idea, but the first thing I thought of was mayo having a laugh

Or maybe since the eyes would be on mayo today the second scum could slip underthe radar and the only person that’s been against Clem all game was vamp. Maybe trying to silence the only person actively against the last scum if that’s the team. Just a world to consider.

But locking zenge as scum wasn’t premature? Or was a lesson learned lol

If I had to guess. It’s a way to test the odd night doctor so I can’t block the double kill tonight. It’s not the craziest plan ever.

Why would there be a double kill tonight? Why do you assume a kill wasn’t blocked last night?

Mayo: Clem, samac
Dina: Clem

I got pretty scummy vibes from samac both D1 and D2 and I think it makes sense in a genny/mayo/samac world to see what we saw yesterday. I’d expand but I need to get to the airport so maybe in a couple hours when I’m waiting to board. I think at least 1 scum was pushing zenge yesterday and I wouldn’t say clem or Dina was so it leave me with mayo. One wolf had to help the thread state stay in a position to secure the mislim imo so I just don’t think Dina is scum. If she is I’ll reevaluate if I fully think it’s Clem or if there’s someone flying under the radar.

Updated reads


Town
madrigal
AM
PSV
Moon
Townlean
SAR
JJJ
dina
Scumlean
samac
Clem
Scum
mayo

I’ve provided town and wolf reads, but happy to do so again.


Town:
JJJ - obvious. Has been driving the discussion toward a solid village bloc. Getting as much information out as possible. Doesn’t fit well with Dina.

AM - Gennyvote clears her. I was reading her village before, but would be either way

Samac - was sus of her D1 but came around based on Genny vote and gameplay since

Madrigal - no big aha moment, but is playing like a friendly new townie making a good effort.

Fringes, likely town:

SAR - felt great D1, but has fizzled over the past day or two. Could be busy IRL, but the inconsistency is there. Fits with Dina in theory

Moon - Based on content, I can’t help but call moon village. The point about the D1 moon wagon makes sense,

KJQ - has moved up my reads as she has become more engaged with the game today. Still compatible with Dina, but less likely that the three below.


Wolf:
Dina - this is the only read I can say with 100% certainty

PSV - probably pairs the best with Dina leading up until today.

Today, Some of the questioning of me seemed a bit disingenuous. Both suggesting I should and shouldn’t have acted differently with last night without really suggesting what that would have been. Timeline doesn’t add up super well.

Clem - Has contributed nothing of value that I’ve seen. That may be NAI for Clem. He’s the player that is most compatible with a Hail Mary CC in my book.

Let’s go back to NKA. Why vamp? What makes sense for Dina worlds and mayo worlds?

Boarded my next plane. It’s probably not worth buying the Wi-Fi since I’m likely to be teeter regardless. Last chance for questions if anyone is here.

Otherwise gonna settle in and get to know KJQ. At least I assume that the tech bro sitting next to me is her. ITS WHAT I WAS PROMISED

Yes that’s me.

Your shoes look expensive. But they also look like bowling shoes.

Good choice on the sparkling wine before takeoff.

Why did you look confused when I said KJQ without context?

I wanted to gaslight you. Did it work lol

We need to yeet one of Dina or mayo because one is confirmed to be scum since they are in a direct double claim and both can’t be the odd night Doctor.

I have an empty seat next to me so I guess mayo has an invisibility cloak lol

I will revote mayo if needed I just didn’t want a premature hammer

I am on mayo in spirit

All he’s (seemingly) done is vote me for my Day 1 posts and then when pressed on it… eventually unvoted and votes mayo. He also voted vamp for a bit D2 while she was lining him up as her biggest sus before she was killed. If he’s done anything else noteworthy, it wasn’t memorable to me in any way, so maybe someone can correct me.

This does nothing to tell me he’s town. So is there a reason I shouldn’t think he’s scum?

Does anyone have a read on Clem one way or another?

I’d like to know your thoughts too. Maybe ISOing me might change your mind. Besides day 1 where I was unavailable, I feel like I’ve been the most correct with my reads. Besides accusing me of TMI, I don’t see what I’ve done that would make sense in a me/genny/mayo team. Why wouldn’t they just push the vote back onto me since I was MIA? If I was the 3rd in that team I’d be the one cut loose, not genny.

I probably have a chip on my shoulder from being judged for my day 1 and inability to post even though I feel like I’ve more than made up for it with my day 2-3. After day 1. I’ve been extremely involved and had the correct reads on both days (zenge town, mayo scum) yet I was told things like “you’re wrong” when I pushed back against having meta shoved down my throat. And treated like my opinions and reads are less important than the group that plays together here since my reads aren’t informed by meta therefore I couldn’t possibly have my reads trusted, I guess. And then when I am right, it’s sussed as TMI instead of helpful to town. Maybe no one realizes it, but this is a very tough spot to be in. I have the WIM but no one knows me so they don’t seem to really want my help and I feel a bit ostracized.

Madigal would’ve voted me at the time they voted if they were scum. No reason to vote genny. No reason genny/mayo would’ve directed madrigal to vote genny over me there. I think this is clearing. If madrigal is in the PoE, I think it should be as the last person we vote in the 4.

I thought we couldn’t be sure that mayo is confirmed strongman since the edge case of Dina being roleblocked can’t be completely dismissed just because it’s improbable. It was just as unlikely that zenge tracked the exact wolf that killed but here we are.

Do you think mayo would put a scum partner in this exercise? If so, I think only one vote makes sense for you today. If not, why not?

[/spoiler[

 

[samac]

I did not widen my POE with the exercise and didn't make myself feel any more strongly about anything.
GG samac.

 

[samac]

I feel like I'm stuck between which way would hurt me if I lost more:
1) Ignoring my noob bloodlust and letting everyone talk me out of it
2) Ignoring AM and getting those I told you so's for the rest of my life

They both hurt. If its KJQ or SAR at least those wouldn't hurt.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

2) Ignoring AM and getting those I told you so's for the rest of my life

I know you can't believe me at this point, but there will not be any "I told you so"s.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Geez, unless JJJ died specifically so the legacy involved "don't kill madrigal". But idk.
I need her to come back and have a chat.

 

[samac]

I know you can't believe me at this point, but there will not be any "I told you so"s.

Your reaction to KJQ's I quit village doesn't deserve this was also the same way I looked at it in the moment and felt so pure.

GAH
NEVER BRING ME HERE AGAIN
IM HAPPY TO BE MOST LIKELY TO DIE N1 AGAIN THANKS

 

[samac]

Geez, unless JJJ died specifically so the legacy involved "don't kill madrigal". But idk.
I need her to come back and have a chat.

It's also a ballsy move to take me this far with her as someone who has had consistent pressure on her since about D2.
I'm trying to remember if from the get go I liked killing people who supported me or if I developed that taste later.

 

[samac]

Geez, unless JJJ died specifically so the legacy involved "don't kill madrigal". But idk.
I need her to come back and have a chat.

but then her reaction of someone dragging me to f3 with her felt almost like she TMI'd me town when I haven't left the bottom half of her reads for days

 

[potentialsheltervet]

It's also a ballsy move to take me this far with her as someone who has had consistent pressure on her since about D2.
I'm trying to remember if from the get go I liked killing people who supported me or if I developed that taste later.

Oh I got an idea

x1 Mafia Jack of All Trades (x1 Vigilante, x1 Role Cop, x1 Watcher) | Cycle 2+ | Alignment Flip Only

I suppose she could've watched someone N2 and saw JJJ pay a visit?

 

[SARdoghandler]

I think if mads is having this kind of game as a noob wolf I wouldn't even be mad to lose to her

But I lack the noob bloodlust that you have, Samac 😂

 

[KayJayQueue]

Oh I got an idea

I suppose she could've watched someone N2 and saw JJJ pay a visit?

But why kill vamp N2? Mayo was still alive so he could’ve influenced this decision, of course. Was it only to be a distraction? That gives the last scum an extra day, sure, and with holding the shot I suppose their plan worked. But I don’t see madrigal doing that. I think scum has more experience.

My PoE is samac/SAR.

 

[KayJayQueue]

I think if mads is having this kind of game as a noob wolf I wouldn't even be mad to lose to her

But I lack the noob bloodlust that you have, Samac 😂

I agree with this statement 100%. If madrigal is scum, I say gg to her and I’ll be very impressed and happy to congratulate her. She deserves the win if that’s the case. I just don’t think it’s likely.

I’m not going to entertain any more scum!madrigal worlds.