quitting residency

[moxijab2016]

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Hi SDN,
I am a PGY-1 and I am pretty depressed and disappointed with my program. I am not learning very much at all and the rotations I have had so far lack any structure or learning objectives. I have tried to make things better and be more positive but I keep hitting a wall. My rotations as a P4 were more fulfilling and challenging. I am really surprised because my program is pretty established, it's not new at all. I have no idea what to do. I can't believe it's been 4 months or so already and I feel like I've learned nothing and accomplished nothing, except verifying some orders when I staff, which is new of course because I didn't do that as a student. I am debating dropping out and re-applying to better programs next year. I was really motivated and gung-ho as a student and I just don't fit into the culture of my hospital which is chill and borderline lazy/unproductive. Has anyone been through this before or survived through something like this? Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Do people really do residencies to learn something? I thought residencies were like the pledge period in a fraternity, just something one has to "get through".

I would do a search here, I know there was another poster or 2 who wanted to quit their residency. The consensus was that it was a bad idea. It will be extremely unlikely that you would be able to get into another residency program, given their competitiveness. Even when you explain that you quit because you felt unchallenged, other programs will see you as a quitter.

I think your best bet is to muddle through. And what is it that *you* want to learn? Think about how you can make that learning experience for yourself (ie volunteer for a project or area, ask if you can shadow another pharmacist who is doing what you want to do.) You aren't in college anymore, even though residencies should have at least a loose structure of learning, as a post-grad you have to take responsibility for your own learning and education.

 

[gwarm01]

Take this opportunity to self-study any chance you get. This isn't school, they may be expecting you to motivate and direct yourself. I wouldn't quit. If nothing else, keep your head down and get through it. Quitting will look bad and you'll be explaining why you quit for years to come. Even if your program is a nightmare, it will only reflect poorly on you.

A lot of new pharmacists experience this feeling of disappointment. It turns out the daily practice of clinical pharmacy isn't nearly as interesting or glamorous as many of us convinced ourselves in pharmacy school. You put in years of work to land this dream position, only to find out that, well.. it's just a job. This place might not be a great fit for you, but you just have to wait eight short months before you finish and become far more employable. That's a very short time in the grand scheme and you'll be kicking yourself if you quit now.

 

[bacillus1]

Just treat it as another step in getting the job you want, and try to learn as much as you can. Residency often isn't that "glamorous"...I feel like mine also had a few months when I don't think I learned too much, but I would be unable to have the job I have now without that credential.

 

[gwarm01]

Just treat it as another step in getting the job you want, and try to learn as much as you can. Residency often isn't that "glamorous"...I feel like mine also had a few months when I don't think I learned too much, but I would be unable to have the job I have now without that credential.

Posting again to second this. Take it from someone who has had two "dream jobs" that left me disappointed and disillusioned for a while. Get out of your own head, reset your expectations, and get as much value as you can out of the experience. Set goals for the future to keep yourself motivated. This is coming from someone who is pretty anti-residency even. You will be shooting yourself in the foot if you quit.

 

[Dalteparin]

OP, I could have written this post 7 years ago. (In fact, I kind of did...) I agree with what everyone else has said: don't quit! If you think you'll get in at a better program if you quit, think again; nobody's going to take a chance on someone who's already quit a program.

My residency was total chaos and I hated every minute of it. But at the end, I got my paper, gave them the finger, and moved on to greener pastures. This too shall pass, OP. Think about what you want to do when you escape this hellhole and be proactive about getting yourself there.

 

[confettiflyer]

Have you contacted previous residents?

My first gut advice is to tell you to grin and bear it. The job market will not be kind to you and quitting a residency is probably one of the biggest red flags you can attach to your CV. Hands down that would be an immediate back-channel phone call to your old program, and most RPD's know each other in a large geographic area.

I have one coworker who quit PGY-2 because of poor training and she's one of our critical care pharmacists now, but she had the backing of an extensive PGY-1 and came back to a clinical/staffing hybrid position (so no break in employment).

 

[mustang sally]

Agree with BidingMyTime. Residency is just a means to an end...don't quit! There are so many people who would have loved to have your opportunity. Even if it totally sucks, a year is so short. Make the best of it and you will be on to bigger and better things before you know it!

 

[lord999]

I'd also say that there's a lot to learn in a bad residency in terms of what not to do. Almost all of my teaching habits are a result of me consciously avoiding some bad examples of my own (sadistic teacher who screws over students, theoretical to a fault teacher, imprecise examiner). My most instructive clinical professor on rotations was an egomaniac who alienated physicians, talked endlessly about herself, and did not do her clinical case lookups before rounds as she thought herself good enough to wing it. Find some sort of outside outlet though. I agree with the others about quitting a residency is considered damning for a career (you'd have to explain it for the rest of your career why you left).

 

[moxijab2016]

Thanks guys for your thoughts and contributions. I am just really sad at this whole profession....it has turned into quantity over quality. First the pharmacy schools started expanding and now its all these residency programs expanding when some programs are really unsuited to provide any quality training. And it's so easy to just have documents and syllabuses to provide to ASHP to prove that you're "quality".

 

[pharmadentist]

You're almost through man! It's only a PGY1 and you can do it. Every day may be miserable but know that irregardless, you'll have a PGY 1 to put by your name by the end of your year. In an economy where pharmacists are having a hard time, you'll be able to find a job anywhere. Additionally, a US PGY 1 residency is very very respected internationally. You've done well getting into this residency position, and you deserve a pat on the back.

.........and look at the bright side of things. A chill hospital which is lazy and unproductive hopefully means your residency is pretty chill as well. Trust me when I say that's a good thing. One of my own family members had a residency in one of the most stressful hospitals in the USA, he regrets not doing at a chill hospital even now, something like 20+ years later.

So if it means you're getting through a residency without much stress, by all means keep it going. The experience < the credential.

Best wishes to you.

 

[bobisnew]

Agree with above, tough it out for another 8 months. Many folks would love to be in your postion...I'm seeing a lot of east coast hospitals ask for a residency for staffing positions.

You can learn and gain alot of experience from a poorly structured residency. This type of experience may happen to you in the future. Hopefully you're doing less hours than some of my resident friends (60-70hrs/WK). Plus, you can apply to PGY-2s. Best of luck.

 

[owlegrad]

irregardless

Ahhhh my eyes! Do they have PGY2's in not abusing the English language!?

I kid. Good post. That word just made my eyes bleed though 😉

 

[confettiflyer]

Thanks guys for your thoughts and contributions. I am just really sad at this whole profession....it has turned into quantity over quality. First the pharmacy schools started expanding and now its all these residency programs expanding when some programs are really unsuited to provide any quality training. And it's so easy to just have documents and syllabuses to provide to ASHP to prove that you're "quality".

Did any of these concerns come up while you did your due diligence during research and interview period?


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[pharmadentist]

Ahhhh my eyes! Do they have PGY2's in not abusing the English language!?

I kid. Good post. That word just made my eyes bleed though 😉

Oh I didn't even realize that word was so controversial. I actually thought it was a legitimate proper word until this post. Maybe I do need to do that PGY 2 eventually 🙂

Thanks for the information.

 

[moxijab2016]

Did any of these concerns come up while you did your due diligence during research and interview period?


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Not at ALL!!!! Residents from the prior class seemed to thoroughly recommend it....I am wondering if the lack of difficulty and challenge is what they liked. You could go through this year and do the bare minimum and not gain much at all. I am not that type of person though, I need to feel productive and that I'm developing myself (even if it's painful in the moment). Sure I will walk out with a certificate but would I feel proud about it? No....

 

[ldiot]

Take learning into your own hands, be proactive, talk to people... make the best of the situation and finish it. You're already 4 months in... just finish the residency and get a real job. Applying to a new residency is a waste of time and income.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I agree with the above posters. You can basically look at each year of residency "costing" you ~$80,000 (median Rph salary = 120K - 50K stipend = 70K + loan interest for another year).

If you're even considering trying again for 2017-2018, you might as well spend that year completing a PGY2 instead of risking another PGY1 that you might hate. It's costing a total of ~$160K either way.

I'm just a student, but It's my impression that PGY1 hospital residencies are a ripoff anyway (actually I think they're all a ripoff, but that's for another day), designed only as a bridge to qualify you for a PGY2 "specialty," where you might actually gain high-yield education.

 

[confettiflyer]

C'mon now, everyone knows PGY-1 is just the continuation of a much broader campaign of "let's make the millennials jump where baby boomers used to just be able to walk."

Screw on-the-job training, why pay a new hire in the hospital full salary when you have to train them and shake out all the "first time pharmacist" issues....when you can outsource that to your/another hospital's PGY-1 program, pay half the normal salary, and be able to fire them cleanly after a one year trial period, instead of going through the usual HR rigamarole?

If I'm a hospital admin, sign me up, that's like on boarding procedure ever.

 

[rxdawg21]

C'mon now, everyone knows PGY-1 is just the continuation of a much broader campaign of "let's make the millennials jump where baby boomers used to just be able to walk."

Screw on-the-job training, why pay a new hire in the hospital full salary when you have to train them and shake out all the "first time pharmacist" issues....when you can outsource that to your/another hospital's PGY-1 program, pay half the normal salary, and be able to fire them cleanly after a one year trial period, instead of going through the usual HR rigamarole?

If I'm a hospital admin, sign me up, that's like on boarding procedure ever.

Yep, residencies benefit the programs and only benefit the students due to the surplus and the fact many "residency" trained pharmacists are competing just for a staffing position. I got my job without residency and honestly of the 3 residency trained pharmacists here, most of the non-residency trained pharmacists are better then 2 of the residency trained. I don't get the obsession with having a candidate be "residency" trained, when I have seen with my own eyes residency trained pharmacists that are very slow and don't know basic knowledge and always need someone else's opinions.

 

[confettiflyer]

Yep, residencies benefit the programs and only benefit the students due to the surplus and the fact many "residency" trained pharmacists are competing just for a staffing position. I got my job without residency and honestly of the 3 residency trained pharmacists here, most of the non-residency trained pharmacists are better then 2 of the residency trained. I don't get the obsession with having a candidate be "residency" trained, when I have seen with my own eyes residency trained pharmacists that are very slow and don't know basic knowledge and always need someone else's opinions.

Residents are a product of their programs just as employees are a product of their employer. What you're doing is comparing your institution's training for your institution's workflow to another institution's training placed against your workflow.

No difference if a non-residency trained experienced pharmacist shows up at your hospital and is "slow." You'd say "what's wrong with those (insert hospital name here) pharmacists?"

Poor residencies produce poor pharmacists, period. Poor hospitals produce poor pharmacists, period.

It's the definition of poor that is worth arguing about, and is relevant to the OP here.



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[gwarm01]

C'mon now, everyone knows PGY-1 is just the continuation of a much broader campaign of "let's make the millennials jump where baby boomers used to just be able to walk."

Screw on-the-job training, why pay a new hire in the hospital full salary when you have to train them and shake out all the "first time pharmacist" issues....when you can outsource that to your/another hospital's PGY-1 program, pay half the normal salary, and be able to fire them cleanly after a one year trial period, instead of going through the usual HR rigamarole?

If I'm a hospital admin, sign me up, that's like on boarding procedure ever.

While I completely agree, I still maintain the quitting would put a black mark on the OP's work history that simply not doing a residency wouldn't.

 

[Pharm0987]

You are already almost halfway done! Don't quit now. If you feel like your residency is not challenging enough - either speak to your residency director or find ways to challenge yourself outside of the program! If you drop out of your program now the likelihood of you matching with a "better" PGY-1 program is very very low. And focus on the positives - Like Midyear in Vegas! I am so excited to be on the other side of the table this year and see what that's like. And Western states too!

 

[rxdawg21]

Residents are a product of their programs just as employees are a product of their employer. What you're doing is comparing your institution's training for your institution's workflow to another institution's training placed against your workflow.

No difference if a non-residency trained experienced pharmacist shows up at your hospital and is "slow." You'd say "what's wrong with those (insert hospital name here) pharmacists?"

Poor residencies produce poor pharmacists, period. Poor hospitals produce poor pharmacists, period.

It's the definition of poor that is worth arguing about, and is relevant to the OP here.



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I also inserted the basic knowledge part. These pharmacists I am speaking of have also been here longer then most of the non residency trained ones I am speaking of so this other hospital training thing is invalid when they have had a year or more longer to learn the same system a non-residency trained pharmacist has. Some people are just able to learn more quickly, work at a decent pace, not need validation on basic things like can you use Humalog for an insulin pump (if you don't know that look it up, don't ask a fellow colleague) or if an nephrologist can write for a diabetic medication.

I didn't say anything about the residency people being new to the system so your analogy is wrong.

My statement was more referencing the fact this minimum residency trained qualification for jobs is ludicrous when my small sample size has clearly shown no difference to being residency trained. Just because you did a residency doesn't mean you will be better then a non-residency trained pharmacist, yet they are they only ones looked at for many jobs around the country.

Also all the non-resident trained pharmacists that are better came straight from retail to here, and have been here for a shorter period of time then said residency trained pharmacist...

 

[confettiflyer]

Also all the non-resident trained pharmacists that are better came straight from retail to here, and have been here for a shorter period of time then said residency trained pharmacist...

All of the retail escapees I've worked with at 2 other hospitals (we don't hire retail escapees at my current location) have been duds. So I guess our data cancels out.

This forum is polarized in that you have individuals that push residency as the end all/be all, and you have individuals that say all residents are **** and that it's a vast conspiracy. The true answer is in between.


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[confettiflyer]

Just because you did a residency doesn't mean you will be better then a non-residency trained pharmacist, yet they are they only ones looked at for many jobs around the country.

True, I've always agreed with the first line. And proper non-lazy hiring practices means you consider all candidates and evaluate them individually. I don't know any director who would pass up a clinically competent non-residency trained pharmacist.

BUT...there's a decent number of residency trained pharmacists who ARE clinically competent, so why not narrow your pool and ask for PGY-1 + 2-5 years inpatient experience? If you get enough candidates knocking, all you need is one or two.

So it's not the residency thing per se, it's the ability to reduce your screening time/energy.

Sounds like your hospital didn't do such a good job there, that's unfortunate.


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[rxdawg21]

True, I've always agreed with the first line. And proper non-lazy hiring practices means you consider all candidates and evaluate them individually. I don't know any director who would pass up a clinically competent non-residency trained pharmacist.

BUT...there's a decent number of residency trained pharmacists who ARE clinically competent, so why not narrow your pool and ask for PGY-1 + 2-5 years inpatient experience? If you get enough candidates knocking, all you need is one or two.

So it's not the residency thing per se, it's the ability to reduce your screening time/energy.

Sounds like your hospital didn't do such a good job there, that's unfortunate.


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That is true and I get the residency requirements. Just crazy to me it has become the norm. However, it is a known requirement/certainly a leg up so not doing a residency now is foolish if you want out of retail. I am afraid most don't truly consider the retail lifestyle or maybe work at a great store while in pharmacy school. I know that was my case as far as a great store. My biggest beef with retail are the hours (late nights and weekends), no holidays (or very limited), and very hard to get vacation when you want it. All of these can be problems in other aspects of pharmacy but are almost universal in retail. I am in a relatively hard to staff area and these "okay" pharmacists were hired several years ago, only recently has it even been remotely competitive for a job here. The best way to find out if someone will be good is working with them which for some jobs is unfortunately not an option as it is hard to fire someone or let them go certain places (especially after waiting months for them to even start). I wonder if your retail pharmacists were older/out of the game longer. All the ones here were all retail for <3 years and are relatively bright and efficient.

 

[confettiflyer]

The best way to find out if someone will be good is working with them which for some jobs is unfortunately not an option as it is hard to fire someone or let them go certain places (especially after waiting months for them to even start). .

You just hit at the heart of the boon residencies have been for hospital pharmacy. The potential to reduce your "buyer's remorse, non-refundable" staff members is incredible.

Our PGY-1 is such that we get to keep (or fight for) the best residents and release the rest onto the job market -- not that they're horrible or anything, but they'll fit in nicely somewhere.

But I'm not that cynical - hopefully the benefits flow both ways, and for the most part they have.


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[gwarm01]

You just hit at the heart of the boon residencies have been for hospital pharmacy. The potential to reduce your "buyer's remorse, non-refundable" staff members is incredible.

Our PGY-1 is such that we get to keep (or fight for) the best residents and release the rest onto the job market -- not that they're horrible or anything, but they'll fit in nicely somewhere.

But I'm not that cynical - hopefully the benefits flow both ways, and for the most part they have.


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This is a good post. A lot of us are cynical about the "need" for residency, but you can't deny the benefit a pharmacy director has of being able to train and trial new pharmacists for a full year at reduced cost. One of my mentors when I first started had a PGY1 from a VA Hospital, and she was one of the most insightful, intelligent, and pragmatic pharmacists I have ever known. I credit a lot of my success to the ideals she impressed upon me. I've also worked with a lot of people who were far below the expectation of a modern pharmacist, yet tried to used their residency to put them above others who were far more capable. I experienced a lot of frustration when I saw our management buy into that narrative despite the obvious deficiencies. I can think of a few examples of pharmacists who received their residency training at this same institution, were hired on, then several years out were still falling behind new graduates who started at around the same time.

It's like you said, good hiring requires good vetting of individuals and not just looking at on paper qualifications. It really is sad when hiring managers get lazy and don't look at the individual as a whole. It's even worse when you have someone in charge who is a bit delusion, perhaps being one of these subpar individuals who drank the Koolaid themselves, who refuse to even consider potential candidates that don't meet their arbitrary criteria. When you have staff who have been there for 20+ years almost in tears because they think they'll lose their job if they don't get board certified.. oh man, that really upset me.

 

[rxdawg21]

This is a good post. A lot of us are cynical about the "need" for residency, but you can't deny the benefit a pharmacy director has of being able to train and trial new pharmacists for a full year at reduced cost. One of my mentors when I first started had a PGY1 from a VA Hospital, and she was one of the most insightful, intelligent, and pragmatic pharmacists I have ever known. I credit a lot of my success to the ideals she impressed upon me. I've also worked with a lot of people who were far below the expectation of a modern pharmacist, yet tried to used their residency to put them above others who were far more capable. I experienced a lot of frustration when I saw our management buy into that narrative despite the obvious deficiencies. I can think of a few examples of pharmacists who received their residency training at this same institution, were hired on, then several years out were still falling behind new graduates who started at around the same time.

It's like you said, good hiring requires good vetting of individuals and not just looking at on paper qualifications. It really is sad when hiring managers get lazy and don't look at the individual as a whole. It's even worse when you have someone in charge who is a bit delusion, perhaps being one of these subpar individuals who drank the Koolaid themselves, who refuse to even consider potential candidates that don't meet their arbitrary criteria. When you have staff who have been there for 20+ years almost in tears because they think they'll lose their job if they don't get board certified.. oh man, that really upset me.

That hit the nail on the head, while I see the benefit having it as a minimum qualification for a job is asinine, you can use it to weed people out if you get enough good applicants. I've learned a lot of it is who you know and what said people or bosses actually think about you. Getting your foot in the door is the hardest part. It's unfortunate the way the job market has gone, the massive debt being taken out to go to pharmacy school that is relatively new in the last 10 years at least for my state school and the watering down of the job pool with the 15000 pharmacists a year where a lot aren't that good. This is all known and anyone going now and in last few years had ample warning and no one to blame but themselves

 

[ldiot]

All of the retail escapees I've worked with at 2 other hospitals (we don't hire retail escapees at my current location) have been duds. So I guess our data cancels out.

This forum is polarized in that you have individuals that push residency as the end all/be all, and you have individuals that say all residents are **** and that it's a vast conspiracy. The true answer is in between.


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Which is sad because it's not that these pharmacists are incapable, it's just that so much knowledge learned in pharmacy school disappears into thin air and your IQ drops 10 points after dealing with customers and technicians in retail. I guess my point is that maybe the fact that these residency applicants are fresh out of school is just as valueable (or more valueable) than the actual residency itself.

It's frustrating because my curriculum is the same as the med students for the first year and a half, same classes and tests... yet I must do a residency in order to dispense in a hospital or dose a freaking antibiotic? It's just a huge turn-off for me. At the end of the day it just comes down to supply and demand; pharmacy is saturated and nobody wants to work in retail so this is the result. You can package it as "advancing the profession" but it's not.

 

[confettiflyer]

yet I must do a residency in order to dispense in a hospital or dose a freaking antibiotic? It's just a huge turn-off for me.

You don't do a residency to do that, you do a residency so you can have a peer-to-peer discussion with your ID physician specialist and expand your abx stewardship to hospitalists and non-ID docs who don't have the same level of understanding of antibiotic use, and you blend this with your expertise in product procurement and regulatory standards to make sure the hospital saves money and your department appropriately rations and saves on budget and precious technician time.

Or replace "residency" with "on the job training" if you're so inclined, but most places do not have the time and resources to provide the intensity of experience outside of a reduced cost PGY-1/PGY-2.

 

[ldiot]

You don't do a residency to do that, you do a residency so you can have a peer-to-peer discussion with your ID physician specialist and expand your abx stewardship to hospitalists and non-ID docs who don't have the same level of understanding of antibiotic use, and you blend this with your expertise in product procurement and regulatory standards to make sure the hospital saves money and your department appropriately rations and saves on budget and precious technician time.

Or replace "residency" with "on the job training" if you're so inclined, but most places do not have the time and resources to provide the intensity of experience outside of a reduced cost PGY-1/PGY-2.

Hospitals aren't hiring retail escapees to run their antibiotic stewardship program; I assumed he was referring to staffing jobs, and to my understanding most staffing jobs are now requiring residences. Obviously staff pharmacists are looking at CrCl and monitor dosing which is where my comment came from.

 

[Amicable Angora]

What's with all the people telling the OP that he is half way done which clearly is not the case.

 

[gwarm01]

What's with all the people telling the OP that he is half way done which clearly is not the case.

Getting the residency is half the battle!

Listen, I don't care if it's your first day. Unless there are serious ethical issues, you do not quit once you start. Even if they stick you in the basement and ask you to check Pyxis fills all day long. You stick it out for the year and get your credential. You never want to be the person that has to explain why you broke your contract and quit several months into a program.

I guess the one reasonable alternative would be if you managed to line up a really good job. You could just omit the residency, list the job as your first employer, then hope it doesn't come up on a background check. I wouldn't risk it though.

 

[pharmadentist]

Getting the residency is half the battle!

Listen, I don't care if it's your first day. Unless there are serious ethical issues, you do not quit once you start. Even if they stick you in the basement and ask you to check Pyxis fills all day long. You stick it out for the year and get your credential. You never want to be the person that has to explain why you broke your contract and quit several months into a program.

I guess the one reasonable alternative would be if you managed to line up a really good job. You could just omit the residency, list the job as your first employer, then hope it doesn't come up on a background check. I wouldn't risk it though.

Great advice - I couldn't have said it better.

 

[moxijab2016]

I almost want to do it just to make a statement.

 

[Topcat15]

I almost want to do it just to make a statement.

You will prove absolutely nothing to them, they won't care, and you will only be hurting yourself. The program doesn't care because they'll still fill every single one of their slots next year. ASHP doesn't care about actually making sure the programs that it accredits are worth anything. Your program is not unique in being essentially worthless, so there's no guarantee that if you quit and somehow convinced another program to take you that it your new program would be an improvement (in fact, it probably wouldn't, because I doubt an extremely good residency program would be interested in taking on someone who quit their last residency). Just finish and get your certificate and move on with your life.

 

[pharmadentist]

You will prove absolutely nothing to them, they won't care, and you will only be hurting yourself. The program doesn't care because they'll still fill every single one of their slots next year. ASHP doesn't care about actually making sure the programs that it accredits are worth anything. Your program is not unique in being essentially worthless, so there's no guarantee that if you quit and somehow convinced another program to take you that it your new program would be an improvement (in fact, it probably wouldn't, because I doubt an extremely good residency program would be interested in taking on someone who quit their last residency). Just finish and get your certificate and move on with your life.

Seriously.

Your statement means nothing. You leave and their are hundreds who will still apply and hope to get that seat.

The program did you a huge favor by accepting you into their residency program - now you should hold on and finish.

The decision you are making is quite frankly, immature. Come back on this thread in one year's time and tell me I was wrong (if you end up finishing the program)

 

[pharmadentist]

You will prove absolutely nothing to them, they won't care, and you will only be hurting yourself. The program doesn't care because they'll still fill every single one of their slots next year. ASHP doesn't care about actually making sure the programs that it accredits are worth anything. Your program is not unique in being essentially worthless, so there's no guarantee that if you quit and somehow convinced another program to take you that it your new program would be an improvement (in fact, it probably wouldn't, because I doubt an extremely good residency program would be interested in taking on someone who quit their last residency). Just finish and get your certificate and move on with your life.

@Topcat15

By the way your profile picture is legit.

 

[ldiot]

I almost want to do it just to make a statement.

That's like cutting your foot off just so you can throw it at them. More damaging to you than them; they don't care if you quit.

 

[pharmadentist]

That's like cutting your foot off just so you can throw it at them. More damaging to you than them; they don't care if you quit.

Wow that was a good analogy. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[BenJammin]

It really depends on what your end game is. I have a retail buddy at Tom Thumb who did a residency but realized it wasn't for him, he felt like retail was more stimulating to him than hospital. He quit in December and doesn't regret it. If you're like him and you want to do community pharmacy then quit today. If not, you need to stick it out.

 

[Humble Sloth]

Hi SDN,
I am a PGY-1 and I am pretty depressed and disappointed with my program. I am not learning very much at all and the rotations I have had so far lack any structure or learning objectives. I have tried to make things better and be more positive but I keep hitting a wall. My rotations as a P4 were more fulfilling and challenging. I am really surprised because my program is pretty established, it's not new at all. I have no idea what to do. I can't believe it's been 4 months or so already and I feel like I've learned nothing and accomplished nothing, except verifying some orders when I staff, which is new of course because I didn't do that as a student. I am debating dropping out and re-applying to better programs next year. I was really motivated and gung-ho as a student and I just don't fit into the culture of my hospital which is chill and borderline lazy/unproductive. Has anyone been through this before or survived through something like this? Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

PGY is a SCAM perpetuated by PHARMACY ACADEMIC POWER STRUCTURE to ensure continued new student ENROLLMENT in a hyper saturated pharmD market. If you wanted to do anything clinical get your MD/DO.

PHARMACISTS ARE NOT PROVIDERS AND WILL NEVER BE.

repeat this statement ten times.

 

[pharmadentist]

PGY is a SCAM perpetuated by PHARMACY ACADEMIC POWER STRUCTURE to ensure continued new student ENROLLMENT in a hyper saturated pharmD market. If you wanted to do anything clinical get your MD/DO.

PHARMACISTS ARE NOT PROVIDERS AND WILL NEVER BE.

repeat this statement ten times.

I think this is wrong. I respect your opinion though. The PGY 1 really opens doors to new opportunites and clinical pharmacy's importance cannot be understated.

 

[pharmadentist]

None. This is just through seeing those who have made it ahead of me and seeing how they got there. But, you are a Pharmacist (as I can tell from your profile), so you obviously know a lot better. I don't want to argue with someone who is far more qualified than I am. Please forgive me if I came across as condescending.

 

[Dalteparin]

I almost want to do it just to make a statement.

The only statement you'll be making is "I don't care about my reputation and I never want to work hospital again." If that's the statement you want to make, then you do you; if not, stick it out.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I think this is wrong. I respect your opinion though. The PGY 1 really opens doors to new opportunites and clinical pharmacy's importance cannot be understated.

if the oppoprtunities are new, and only attainable by PGY, then why is it that half of the residency directors never did one themselves? Many of them aren't even Pharm.D.

(not knocking BSPharm, it only goes to show what a ripoff residency is)

 

[gwarm01]

I think this is wrong. I respect your opinion though. The PGY 1 really opens doors to new opportunites and clinical pharmacy's importance cannot be understated.

Unfortunately it just opens the doors to the same opportunities the previous generation was afforded without residency required. The whole PharmD, PGY1 paradigm shift was supposed to usher in the area of new clinical jobs, but those have largely failed to materialize. This is just the new normal and it kind of sucks.

 

[Humble Sloth]

I think this is wrong. I respect your opinion though. The PGY 1 really opens doors to new opportunites and clinical pharmacy's importance cannot be understated.

"clinical pharmacy's importance cannot be understated"

oh my. You really drank up the kool aid they gave you eh kid? you got a lot to learn. You will realize the truth once you are out in the "clinical pharmacy industry". Doctors do not give one ---- about a clinical pharmacist's suggestions. MTM and provider status never took off and will NEVER take off. They are a pipe dream designed to increase pharmD enrollment in a hyper saturated environment.