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RANT HERE thread

Discussion in 'Pre-Veterinary' started by flyhi, Jun 17, 2010.

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  1. Elkhart

    Elkhart Iowa 2020 Bronze Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    Also, for whatever it is worth, I don't think that your accent is thick at all, @cdoconn!

    You're awesome, you're going to be an amazing doctor, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! :)
     
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  3. Rwwilliams

    Rwwilliams 5+ Year Member

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    I moved from Australia to America when I was about 7 years old. Obviously, I came with a very thick accent. I'm still very proud to be Australian but these days most people don't know I am until I tell them because I have a very genuine American accent. People laugh about it, oh, I've lived here so long and since I was so young that it's just one of those things that happens! No. I worked very very hard to pursue an American accent because I had such an awful time getting people to understand me, particularly when it came to medical terms. You'd think that as you ascend the ladder from high school, to undergrad, to vet school, that people would be more understanding of differences and make an attempt to be understanding but it's not always the case. I had coworkers that wouldn't let me finish a sentence because they'd beg me to repeat it or insist that they didn't understand just because they liked how I said "water," or "America," or "been." I had a superior tell me what I needed to say "heartworm prevention" like an American because clients didn't understand me. As I get older, I get conflicted between which accent is how I really talk and it's harder to flip flop between the two.
    I am so so sorry that anyone ever told you that you couldn't be a doctor because of your accent. I can't say I know exactly how you feel, but I can empathize. An accent should not be a discriminatory factor when it comes to being a doctor.
     
  4. pinkpuppy9

    pinkpuppy9 Illinois c/o 2019 2+ Year Member

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    We did just get a new counselor, so hopefully she takes advantage of the opportunity.
     
  5. bjeh

    bjeh He was born of an omelet

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    So I feel weird posting this here, but I need to get it off my chest and I like the semi-anonymity of this board (plus everyone on here seems so nice). My grandmother has been dealing with cancer on and off for the past 10 years. Now she’s at the point where it has spread and there’s nothing the doctors can do. She’s still there mentally but physically she’s really bad. I’m helping her get hospice set up at home over the next couple of days. Is there anyone on here who’s dealt with this before with their family members?
     
  6. wheelin2vetmed

    wheelin2vetmed CSU c/o 2020 2+ Year Member

    I assumed the role of sole caregiver for my father until he passed away from esophageal cancer. Send me a PM if you need.
     
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  7. genny

    genny Cats with benefits. 2+ Year Member

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    See, I read this, and my first thought was that poor guy is so stupid that he can't understand when someone is asking for a burrito in a burrito place. Clearly, he is not cut out for the job.
     
  8. cdoconn

    cdoconn Hydration Specialist. Pro-Quivering

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    Realistically I would agree. Geesh
     
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  9. PrincessButterCup

    PrincessButterCup 2+ Year Member

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    You rock, CDO! :highfive: I'm here for you whenever you need to rant. I also have hearing loss (unilateral, left ear is decoration only) but this scenario is usually reversed for me. I have a hard time understanding people, which results in me being the one saying 'can you repeat that' like an idiot over and over. I went to speech therapy in grade school but I still have trouble with pronunciation sometimes. I hate it, but some days are way worse than others. I recently started taking my dog to clicker class, and it's set up in a way that just completely sucks for me. It's in an echo-prone gym, noisy dogs, I can't watch the trainer's lips when she speaks, my dog distracts me when I need my full concentration to listen . . . it can be really tough to try to be normal. I feel so stupid sometimes because I don't understand instructions, but it's because I can't hear them, not because I'm dumb. I wish life came with subtitles. But my hearing loss doesn't limit what I can do (minus military jobs, which I'm not inclined to anyway ;)), and it won't limit you. You'll be an eggcellent vet and I'll be an excellent to-be-determined.

    So if you ever need an ear (hahaha look I'm so funny), I'm here. :)
     
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  10. cdoconn

    cdoconn Hydration Specialist. Pro-Quivering

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    Hey! My right ear is for decoration only, similarly to your left- and then I have a good chunk of my left gone. I feel you on the struggling to hear/ understanding people. It's rough. Loud, echoey places, or loudly beeping machines and I can hear approximately nothing- I recently found a dimmer switch for the really loud one in the lab which is nice! Wouldn't IRL subtitles be the greatest (besides for sign language haha)!! Hahaha and if you need (70% of) an ear, I'm here for you as well!
     
  11. serher

    serher c/o 2021

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    I am so sorry you are having to experience this. I just wanted to say that all of us are here for you if you ever need to vent or talk about it. I unfortunately cannot relate to your exact situation, but I think I and a lot of people on the forum can relate to having a grandparent or other family member with decaying health. I know how incredibly hard and sad it is. Hugs for you and your family during this difficult time :(
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  12. cali_bear

    cali_bear AUCVM Class of 2021!

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    I have a GSD and have also worked with retired contract military working dogs (mostly GSDs but also some Belgian Mals), and I love them! However, I would have to say that many (@DVMDream is not alone in this) in the vet med world are cautious of GSDs. For example, one of my eLOR writers was very unexpectedly bit by a GSD at her old practice and does not favor them in a clinic setting because of that. As much as I hate breed discrimination, it happens all the time. It is important to remember that any dog can bite--provoked or unprovoked. I have been bitten by a Great Dane, a GSD mix, dachshunds, chihuahuas, cats, etc. (this is over a lifetime, btw, only once drawn blood, just saying to make a point). I honestly am more cautious of the smaller breed dogs that are clingy, but again, I am sure it can be looked on as breed discrimination and offend said breed-lover. I have shadowed vets and staff who love GSDs and others who don't. People base their opinions by their personal experiences. As a fellow GSD person, I'm sure you are aware that some GSDs have the reputation of being peculiar because they can be very loyal to their people and cautious of strangers (including vets). That is why some veterinarians feel the way they do. For that reason, I encourage new GSD owners to bring their pups and dogs by to get treats and loving by the vets and staff so they associate the clinic with good, familiar things. I usually opt to muzzle my GSD when being examined because she is a 90 lb dog, and I know she and the vet feel comfortable that way; she knows she will get lots of loving by the vet after she/he is done:love:. I could take to other people's opinions of the breed badly, but I don't. I still like GSDs and am excited to see them in vet med! But, I also understand where others are coming from. It is going to happen wherever you go and switch between breeds based on what people's experiences are. As @Doctor-S said, it is what it is. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  13. Filly Bay

    Filly Bay Don't Panic Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    Was looking at loan repayment plans with my husband today. If I do the 10 year plan, monthly payments are > 3/4 of my monthly intern salary. Husband also commented its more than the mortgage, taxes and home insurance combined. Cool. :hungover:

    (I realize there are other repayment plans I will probably pursue. This factoid just made me vom a little.)
     
  14. LetItSnow

    LetItSnow Skipping the light fandango 5+ Year Member

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    Yup.

    Although it is worth noting the CDC feels that risk is not significant. At least, that used to be their position.

    (PinkPuppy's "there's always an exception to every rule" example aside.)

    As I'm in practice longer, I'm gradually moving more and more towards "We should just make declaws illegal" position. The cons outweigh the pros, and the arguments in favor of it are either not supported by medical data, or are ways to rationalize it that don't really stand up to objective evaluation.

    I've done declaws (a couple). I am not saying they can't be done well. But the longer I practice, the less I see them as a reasonable or necessary procedure. Ditto for ear crops and (most) tail docks. Fortunately, as an ER doc it isn't something I have to fight with either my boss or my clients about. But if I went into GP work as an employee it would be a condition of employment for me: they would never compel me to perform a declaw, ear crop, or tail dock unless I was 100% on board with it as a medically indicated procedure.
     
  15. LetItSnow

    LetItSnow Skipping the light fandango 5+ Year Member

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    Yup. And additionally, I try to tell owners that just like your own personal bedroom where you don't want people busting in on you, let the crate be your dog's safe place where you leave IT alone. Animals need a safe place to be not interrupted, bounced on by the kids, etc. The crate is a great place for a dog that wants some downtime to go, so I encourage owners to not go reaching into the crate, etc., and just leave the dog alone. Call it out, don't pull it out. Let it be a 'safe place'.
     
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  16. that redhead

    that redhead 7+ Year Member

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    My boss has never compelled me to perform one but when I refused (the one where the owner brought the cat for the procedure literally two days after her first appointment with me, where she refused to even attempt to try my suggestions, and wanted it done "because [their] other cat is declawed"), he did it anyway, without local blocks or even systemic analgesia that I would consider standard of care. And then repeatedly pointed to how "fine" the cat was in recovery, as though it would literally speak up if it were not in fact totally happy with the situation. But we all know how much my job rankles me, so.
     
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  17. alohacat319

    alohacat319 c/o 2020 2+ Year Member

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    Sending good thoughts to everyone at Kansas State. So sorry for your loss.

    (I think I'm actually a few days late but I just heard about it... tragic that our profession faces this so frequently)
     
  18. hazelmoo

    hazelmoo Class of 2020! 2+ Year Member

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    I am SHOCKED that many vets are still doing declaws instead of deep digital flexor tenotomies... I haven't done either procedure of course, but learning about it in class and on paper the deep digital flexor surgery seems so much faster, easier, less painful, and has none of the harmful side affects that come from the more traditional declaw.
     
  19. that redhead

    that redhead 7+ Year Member

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    There are a large number of veterinarians out there, my boss included, who are old school fellas (and some ladies, I'm sure) who don't actually care about what is the best up and coming or new thing for whatever. They stick to what they know, they use the same drugs and dosages that they've used for decades, the same treatment plans or surgical protocols and if the pet doesn't die, it was a success. This has been (and continues to be) one of the hardest things about veterinary medicine for me that I did not at ALL expect coming out of school. I can get over it when owners decline diagnostic work ups or elect to let their pet die at home because I tell myself that they don't know any better, that if they knew what I knew they'd probably try harder for their companion. But I really struggle with working alongside some veterinarians who are not at all forward thinking and who do not want to learn to do better. In some cases it's because they've become comfortable in their routines and in other cases it's because they are afraid of looking silly when they don't know something.
     
  20. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes 7+ Year Member

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    It has similar side effects and doesn't address the issue that most owner's are looking to address when declawing. The claws are still present, can scratch, get caught on things, tend to overgrow/grow thicker. The owner still has to keep up on nail trims and the claws are more likely to grow into the paw pads. I'd personally do the declaw over the tenotomy but prefer to stick with doing neither as I currently do.
     
  21. hazelmoo

    hazelmoo Class of 2020! 2+ Year Member

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    We learned that you do still have to keep up with trimming the nails, but they are physically unable to extend their nails to scratch!
     
  22. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes 7+ Year Member

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    But they can still "scratch" simply by the nail being there/being overgrown. They don't need to extend the digit, they will still attempt to scratch. Heck my declawed cats "scratch" all the time, I grimace at the thought of a nail still being there just not extended...it can get caught if long enough. And considering that the majority of people looking to declaw aren't those that are going to be willing to keep up on regular nail trims, I really think the tenotomy is more a disservice to the cat, unless you have a really dedicated owner and considering most of the clients I've discussed the procedure with... you might find 1 out of 100 that would be willing to keep up on nail trims and that is a generous number.

    Not to mention that people claim declawing causes behavioral issues because of the inability to extend the digit/scratch and express normal behavior. A tenotomy doesn't address this issue, the cat still won't be able to express normal behavior.

    The AVMA has a good article describing the differences between the two based on research. A couple of the tenectomized cats were actually later declawed.
     
  23. Devastating

    Devastating VETT to DVM 202X 2+ Year Member

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    I feel sick. Yesterday on the last day of spring break, what should have been a normal day, my family unexpectedly lost our oldest dog Harley. He and the other dogs were outside with me while our old mare was also loose in the front yard--the others spooked her, and he got kicked.

    It is just so surreal to have things change from literally one moment to the next. Not 5 minutes before, my sister was out there with him as he rolled in the sun...and he was HER pup, given to her 12 years ago, so she is taking it the hardest of anyone. When a pet dies of age, or its suffering from a disease is ended when QoL declines, it is still heartbreaking, but there is closure--knowing that it was "their time" and they are free. There is no such closure in the event of an accident, much less an avoidable one. He still had some years ahead of him. All you can think of is the hindsight, the tiny things you could have done and avoided it all...all my sister could say as she cried was "I was just out there playing with him, I could have brought him inside."

    I went to bed very late last night, and got to class a couple minutes late. Clin path had already picked up her homework, so I had to go to her office and hand it in directly. She hands them back graded once her class starts, and with a big "late" written on the corner, she took 10 points off an otherwise-perfect long assignment worth 20. Half off just for barely missing her pick-up, which took my entire grade down a bit. it is a stupid thing to cry over, but on top of all this...once the initial anger faded, it took willpower not to tear up in class.

    I just can't believe that this happened. I was supposed to come home this weekend for my birthday, now there will be one less bark to greet me. It sounds cliche when people talk about taking things for granted, or not thinking that X bad thing could ever happen to you, but this really hit it home. Please hug your pets for me.

    harley2016.jpg
     
  24. nohika

    nohika lurker status Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

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    I'm so sorry. :(
     
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  25. SkiOtter

    SkiOtter

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    I'm so sorry Deva<3
     
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  26. Trilt

    Trilt love doc + puppy snuggler extraordinaire Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

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    ^this. I work in a small town clinic. I probably do a declaw every two weeks or so? If I do them, they get mu opioids, local anesthesia, and nsaids on top of long acting buprenorphine to go home. If either of my bosses do them, they're anesthetized with ket-xy and if the younger one does it, get nsaids at home. If older boss, no pain meds unless I catch it and remind him.

    Cats are second class citizens here. These are the cats that are actually getting to live indoors vs. brutal outdoor lives... I don't love the surgery (and both my personal cats have all claws for sure) but most of these owners are not the kind that are going to consider alternatives or be kind to the cat being a nuisance.

    Iunno. I consider it a lesser of evils and do it as humanely as I can. Maybe I'm just bending and enabling but meh, my conscience is OK.
     
  27. serher

    serher c/o 2021

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    Noooooooooooo Deva I am so sorry :(:(:( Sending many hugs to you and your family.
     
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  28. genny

    genny Cats with benefits. 2+ Year Member

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    I am so sorry for your loss. Accidents suck.
     
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  29. Trilt

    Trilt love doc + puppy snuggler extraordinaire Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

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    Oh Deva... that sucks so much. Thinking of you and your pup.
     
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  30. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes 7+ Year Member

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    So sorry for your loss, Deva.
     
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  31. PippyPony

    PippyPony fun sized Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    This makes me so sad. I really wish people valued cats more, and respected their natural behaviors. They are my favorites :(

    (I can see where you're coming from, Trilt -- I just couldn't see myself working somewhere where declaws are considered the lesser of two evils. I hope there is a better future out there for kitties).
     
  32. genny

    genny Cats with benefits. 2+ Year Member

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    As someone looking for a job right now, I wish I had the luxury of finding a practice that won't do declaws. Maybe when I open my own place in a few years.
     
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  33. PippyPony

    PippyPony fun sized Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    I'm so sorry for your tragedy, @Devastating . Sudden loss is especially hard, I think. Harley looks like he was a wonderful pup.
     
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  34. PippyPony

    PippyPony fun sized Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    Come to our clinic! :)
     
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  35. Trilt

    Trilt love doc + puppy snuggler extraordinaire Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

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    There's a reason I get all the crazy cat ladies at work, lol. I have some very dedicated owners who are fantastic. But a lot more who just want the cat to not annoy them.
    My bosses would have been fine with me saying I didn't want to do them, tbh, I just personally want the skillset and want to do it right... I'm sure you'll be able to find a place with a similar outlook.
     
  36. hazelmoo

    hazelmoo Class of 2020! 2+ Year Member

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    I'm so sorry Deva :( <3
     
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  37. Devastating

    Devastating VETT to DVM 202X 2+ Year Member

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    Thanks for the well-wishes everyone. Typing it all out made me feel a lot better, I don't like to bring up that kind of stuff with IRL acquaintances.
     
  38. Filly Bay

    Filly Bay Don't Panic Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    Deva, I'm sorry to hear that :(
     
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  39. Jilary

    Jilary UPenn c/o 2019 Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    I get this. I mean I HATE declaws, but if you know someone is going to do it no matter what, it's better that you do it using a recommended technique and proper pain control then having them go to someone else who may use outdated methods and no pain management.
     
  40. cowgirla

    cowgirla Oklahoma 2014 7+ Year Member

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    This. I'm not a declaw fan either, and really try to get people to go for other methods first.
    But, for the declaws I do - they get mu opioids (bigger/older cats get CRIs), nsaids, local blocks with bupivicaine/buprenorphine, nsaids/gabapentin/buprenex SR to go home. I keep them two nights in the clinic and they tend to do nicely. Most are trying to bat you through the cage door by the morning post op and playing.
     
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  41. FeenyFee

    FeenyFee 2+ Year Member

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    Not really a rant but just need to vent. I'm so utterly depressed and hopeless right now. My family and I have decided to euthanize our dog for behavioral reasons. We found her walking the streets a year ago and contacted the owner who said they were coming for her... never came. We spent money saved up for our other dogs for vet visits, medications, etc. She has attacked our dogs, escaped, warning bites to my nephews who we just had to take custody of and will be living permanently with us. Her anxiety is a level 8/10 in the crate. I bought a camera to watch her and for 5 hours and she did not stop barking, pacing or salivating. :(

    I feel like I can't even reach out for support to friends for the fear of being judged. I love this damn dog so much and we have sacrificed so much for her. I feel so guilty. But I don't know what to do. At this point, we are all suffering.
     
  42. LetItSnow

    LetItSnow Skipping the light fandango 5+ Year Member

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    Yeah. And that kinda touches on one of the arguments for doing it that I struggled with the most in coming to the conclusion that I just won't do them.....

    .... the whole "I don't want to refuse and have them go to another vet who does a crappy job" argument. The "at least I can make sure it's done well" argument. (Not what you were saying, but in talking about your boss it reminded me of it.)

    I finally decided that is B.S. I mean... I *understand* feeling that way. I certainly did. But the fact is, I shouldn't be doing something I don't believe in just to make sure the next guy down the road doesn't do a crappy job of doing something I don't believe in.

    I'm certainly not out on the street corner selling high-quality crack just to make sure some poor kid doesn't buy some crack laced with arsenic.

    If it's wrong to do, it's wrong to do, and the energy should be put into dragging vet med forward so that we just plain don't do it anymore - not "doing a good job of it" to make sure that some other vet doesn't do a crappy job.
     
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  43. LetItSnow

    LetItSnow Skipping the light fandango 5+ Year Member

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    My last post should not be taken as an attack, or even criticism, of Trilt ... I didn't see Trilt's post, but I literally JUST posted about this argument.

    I bought into that argument as well. And I respect Trilt's practice of medicine. It's up to Trilt to decide if that argument has merit (and currently she thinks it does, apparently). I won't criticize that.

    I just personally don't think that argument holds water ... and that's after literally years of thinking about it.
     
  44. Jilary

    Jilary UPenn c/o 2019 Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    That sucks. I'm sorry. It's not wrong to euthanize a dog that is likely to hurt someone. It sucks, I know. You gave that dog a fairly good year, but it doesn't sound like it's living a happy life even though you have tried so hard to do so.
    I don't think any vet should feel obligated to do it so that somebody else doesn't do a crap job of it, but I do think the client should be educated on the procedure and if they still are adamant they want it done, then maybe some recommendations should be given, like "Hey, I don't do that procedure but my colleague here at this practice/at some other practice uses this method and always gives pain meds to go home. If you are going to have it done, I'd recommend going to said colleague or finding someone that does XYZ because of ABC."

    We had a communication lab recently and they gave us a real life scenario of someone that wanted their dogs ears cropped. The clinic didn't do ear cropping, and the client wasn't offered any advice or recommendations. A few weeks later the guy is back with the dog with raging infections on both mutilated ears. His buddy has done lots of ear crops in his kitchen and said he never had any problems before, so he let said buddy take shears to his fully awake puppy's ears. We talked about how things could have been done differently so the dog didn't end up totally mutilated. I also get sometimes things are really busy and maybe you don't have time for anything more than, no we don't do that here.
     
  45. LetItSnow

    LetItSnow Skipping the light fandango 5+ Year Member

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    Well, sure. It's a legal procedure. So obviously, if you have a client who is 100% set on doing it no matter what you tell them, you should advocate for the patient by doing what you can to make sure they go somewhere the procedure is done well.

    That goes without saying.

    But that's different than saying "Ok, I guess I'll do a procedure I don't really think should be done, just so I know it was done well." That's compromising your integrity. At least, that's what I decided it felt like for me. Like I said - I don't criticize people who do it with that argument in mind... it's certainly a powerful motivator because then you feel like you're doing the best you can for the patient. And it's one argument I bought into for a long time.
     
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  46. kcoughli

    kcoughli Lab Animal Resident 2+ Year Member

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    I think it deserved being said. Jil's point is important and can be overlooked, communication is really important and can be hard to prioritize in a busy GP setting (or ER :p).
     
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  47. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes 7+ Year Member

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    The Dragon School
    Veterinarian
    After nearly a year in practice and offering all the advice/recommendations and explaining possible complications, I'd say I'm lucky if 50% of the people listen. Granted that can change by location and client type, but generally if a client has a certain mindset, they will get it done and generally these aren't the people willing to spend $$$$$ for an ear crop. I don't know, maybe I'm jaded but I've discovered a lot of what they tell you in vet school as far as "scenarios" just don't happen out in the real world GP work, regardless of how hard you try.
     
    that redhead likes this.
  48. Doctor-S

    Doctor-S Professor/Attending (Female) Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

    1,627
    2,988
    Jun 9, 2016
    PhD
    Rocket Scientist
    Faculty
    @Devastating ... your name says it all.

    I feel devastated for you, and for your sister, your family, and for the sudden loss of Harley. Very sorry! RIP to dear Harley.
     
    Devastating likes this.
  49. Devastating

    Devastating VETT to DVM 202X 2+ Year Member

    1,551
    1,392
    Sep 13, 2015
    South TX
    Sorry to hear this--I can't imagine having to make that decision. :( I know most of the general public probably won't understand the implications of a situation like this...but whatever happens, you definitely don't deserve judgment.
     
    LadyOtheFarm, WildZoo and FeenyFee like this.
  50. Great Butts

    Great Butts eater of souls

    606
    732
    Apr 30, 2016
    limbo
    @Devastating I'm a bit late, but I'm sorry that you're going through this.
     
    Devastating likes this.
  51. Doctor-S

    Doctor-S Professor/Attending (Female) Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    Jun 9, 2016
    PhD
    Rocket Scientist
    Faculty
    @FeenyFee ... I cannot begin to put into words how much I empathize with you. Very sorry.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017

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