RANT HERE thread

[LetItSnow]

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I don't think any vet should feel obligated to do it so that somebody else doesn't do a crap job of it, but I do think the client should be educated on the procedure and if they still are adamant they want it done, then maybe some recommendations should be given, like "Hey, I don't do that procedure but my colleague here at this practice/at some other practice uses this method and always gives pain meds to go home. If you are going to have it done, I'd recommend going to said colleague or finding someone that does XYZ because of ABC."

Well, sure. It's a legal procedure. So obviously, if you have a client who is 100% set on doing it no matter what you tell them, you should advocate for the patient by doing what you can to make sure they go somewhere the procedure is done well.

That goes without saying.

But that's different than saying "Ok, I guess I'll do a procedure I don't really think should be done, just so I know it was done well." That's compromising your integrity. At least, that's what I decided it felt like for me. Like I said - I don't criticize people who do it with that argument in mind... it's certainly a powerful motivator because then you feel like you're doing the best you can for the patient. And it's one argument I bought into for a long time.

 

[KCgophervet]

Well, sure. It's a legal procedure. So obviously, if you have a client who is 100% set on doing it no matter what you tell them, you should advocate for the patient by doing what you can to make sure they go somewhere the procedure is done well.

That goes without saying.

But that's different than saying "Ok, I guess I'll do a procedure I don't really think should be done, just so I know it was done well." That's compromising your integrity. At least, that's what I decided it felt like for me. Like I said - I don't criticize people who do it with that argument in mind... it's certainly a powerful motivator because then you feel like you're doing the best you can for the patient. And it's one argument I bought into for a long time.

I think it deserved being said. Jil's point is important and can be overlooked, communication is really important and can be hard to prioritize in a busy GP setting (or ER 😛).

 

[DVMDream]

That sucks. I'm sorry. It's not wrong to euthanize a dog that is likely to hurt someone. It sucks, I know. You gave that dog a fairly good year, but it doesn't sound like it's living a happy life even though you have tried so hard to do so.

I don't think any vet should feel obligated to do it so that somebody else doesn't do a crap job of it, but I do think the client should be educated on the procedure and if they still are adamant they want it done, then maybe some recommendations should be given, like "Hey, I don't do that procedure but my colleague here at this practice/at some other practice uses this method and always gives pain meds to go home. If you are going to have it done, I'd recommend going to said colleague or finding someone that does XYZ because of ABC."

We had a communication lab recently and they gave us a real life scenario of someone that wanted their dogs ears cropped. The clinic didn't do ear cropping, and the client wasn't offered any advice or recommendations. A few weeks later the guy is back with the dog with raging infections on both mutilated ears. His buddy has done lots of ear crops in his kitchen and said he never had any problems before, so he let said buddy take shears to his fully awake puppy's ears. We talked about how things could have been done differently so the dog didn't end up totally mutilated. I also get sometimes things are really busy and maybe you don't have time for anything more than, no we don't do that here.

After nearly a year in practice and offering all the advice/recommendations and explaining possible complications, I'd say I'm lucky if 50% of the people listen. Granted that can change by location and client type, but generally if a client has a certain mindset, they will get it done and generally these aren't the people willing to spend $$$$$ for an ear crop. I don't know, maybe I'm jaded but I've discovered a lot of what they tell you in vet school as far as "scenarios" just don't happen out in the real world GP work, regardless of how hard you try.

 

[Doctor-S]

I feel sick. Yesterday on the last day of spring break, what should have been a normal day, my family unexpectedly lost our oldest dog Harley. He and the other dogs were outside with me while our old mare was also loose in the front yard--the others spooked her, and he got kicked.

It is just so surreal to have things change from literally one moment to the next. Not 5 minutes before, my sister was out there with him as he rolled in the sun...and he was HER pup, given to her 12 years ago, so she is taking it the hardest of anyone. When a pet dies of age, or its suffering from a disease is ended when QoL declines, it is still heartbreaking, but there is closure--knowing that it was "their time" and they are free. There is no such closure in the event of an accident, much less an avoidable one. He still had some years ahead of him. All you can think of is the hindsight, the tiny things you could have done and avoided it all...all my sister could say as she cried was "I was just out there playing with him, I could have brought him inside."

I went to bed very late last night, and got to class a couple minutes late. Clin path had already picked up her homework, so I had to go to her office and hand it in directly. She hands them back graded once her class starts, and with a big "late" written on the corner, she took 10 points off an otherwise-perfect long assignment worth 20. Half off just for barely missing her pick-up, which took my entire grade down a bit. it is a stupid thing to cry over, but on top of all this...once the initial anger faded, it took willpower not to tear up in class.

I just can't believe that this happened. I was supposed to come home this weekend for my birthday, now there will be one less bark to greet me. It sounds cliche when people talk about taking things for granted, or not thinking that X bad thing could ever happen to you, but this really hit it home. Please hug your pets for me.

View attachment 216473

@Devastating ... your name says it all.

I feel devastated for you, and for your sister, your family, and for the sudden loss of Harley. Very sorry! RIP to dear Harley.

 

[Devastating]

Not really a rant but just need to vent. I'm so utterly depressed and hopeless right now. My family and I have decided to euthanize our dog for behavioral reasons. We found her walking the streets a year ago and contacted the owner who said they were coming for her... never came. We spent money saved up for our other dogs for vet visits, medications, etc. She has attacked our dogs, escaped, warning bites to my nephews who we just had to take custody of and will be living permanently with us. Her anxiety is a level 8/10 in the crate. I bought a camera to watch her and for 5 hours and she did not stop barking, pacing or salivating. 🙁

I feel like I can't even reach out for support to friends for the fear of being judged. I love this damn dog so much and we have sacrificed so much for her. I feel so guilty. But I don't know what to do. At this point, we are all suffering.

Sorry to hear this--I can't imagine having to make that decision. 🙁 I know most of the general public probably won't understand the implications of a situation like this...but whatever happens, you definitely don't deserve judgment.

 

[Great Butts]

@Devastating I'm a bit late, but I'm sorry that you're going through this.

 

[Doctor-S]

Not really a rant but just need to vent. I'm so utterly depressed and hopeless right now. My family and I have decided to euthanize our dog for behavioral reasons. We found her walking the streets a year ago and contacted the owner who said they were coming for her... never came. We spent money saved up for our other dogs for vet visits, medications, etc. She has attacked our dogs, escaped, warning bites to my nephews who we just had to take custody of and will be living permanently with us. Her anxiety is a level 8/10 in the crate. I bought a camera to watch her and for 5 hours and she did not stop barking, pacing or salivating. 🙁

I feel like I can't even reach out for support to friends for the fear of being judged. I love this damn dog so much and we have sacrificed so much for her. I feel so guilty. But I don't know what to do. At this point, we are all suffering.

@FeenyFee ... I cannot begin to put into words how much I empathize with you. Very sorry.

 

[LyraGardenia]

So sorry for your loss @Devastating. 🙁 I went through something similar a few years ago when one of our cats was killed unexpectedly by two neighbor dogs. Just focus on the good times you had with Harley, not on what you could have done differently.

 

[Trilt]

My last post should not be taken as an attack, or even criticism, of Trilt ... I didn't see Trilt's post, but I literally JUST posted about this argument.

I bought into that argument as well. And I respect Trilt's practice of medicine. It's up to Trilt to decide if that argument has merit (and currently she thinks it does, apparently). I won't criticize that.

I just personally don't think that argument holds water ... and that's after literally years of thinking about it.

No attack or offense taken, no worries. If I were in a different region or different working situation it's totally possible I'd have a different opinion.

As it is, making some solid lemonade out of my lemons nowadays. 😉

 

[Skimble]

After nearly a year in practice and offering all the advice/recommendations and explaining possible complications, I'd say I'm lucky if 50% of the people listen. Granted that can change by location and client type, but generally if a client has a certain mindset, they will get it done and generally these aren't the people willing to spend $$$$$ for an ear crop. I don't know, maybe I'm jaded but I've discovered a lot of what they tell you in vet school as far as "scenarios" just don't happen out in the real world GP work, regardless of how hard you try.

But at least some did listen and you can know you tried when the ones who didn't listen come back in with complications.

 

[that redhead]

If it's wrong to do, it's wrong to do, and the energy should be put into dragging vet med forward so that we just plain don't do it anymore - not "doing a good job of it" to make sure that some other vet doesn't do a crappy job.

I guess it's kind of similar to convenience euthanasias in a way - if a client brings you a healthy dog they want you to euthanize for no appreciably good reason, do you do it because you know you can provide the peaceful, humane death and because they might take it out back and bludgeon it to death instead? Or do you turn it away and hope that because every veterinarian declines, they decide they'll keep the dog after all? In the end, it's whatever lets you sleep at night.

 

[dyachei]

I've probably done....6-7 since I started (which is almost 6 freaking years. what's up with that????). Most of the time they had tried and failed other options (soft paws, appropriate scratching surfaces, etc).

the one the @LetItSnow assisted on was for a cat with an immunocompromised owner. And I do appropriate analgesia, education and post-op care. I don't like doing them and I certainly try to talk every owner out of them. But doing 1 every so often? well, I'd rather it be done right and with education.

 

[FeenyFee]

@FeenyFee ... I cannot begin to put into words how much I empathize with you. Very sorry.

Thank you so much.

 

[that redhead]

When your 32lb dog eats the 32ml bottle of meloxicam...sigh.

 

[wallydo]

I have a periapical abscess (wisdom tooth that's 2/3 of the way erupted) that just came out of nowhere. Had some minor ear/throat pain this weekend but by the end of the day yesterday I couldn't open (and still can't) my mouth > 1 cm and swallowing is challenging. It is some pretty painful. Yesterday was my first day in a GP practice that I'll be working at so I toughed it out during the day and think that may have made it worse. I was supposed to take my Physio exam at 6 PM last night but ended up going to Urgent Care and getting started on antibiotics. My professor graciously accepted my doctor's note and is allowing for a make-up exam but only on Friday at 5:10 (the day of my second scheduled shift!). I'm in touch with my practice manager and sent along medical notes to her, and offered to come in as soon as my exam is over to help with the last appointments of the night/evening treatments, but definitely feeling a weak link right now. :-/ What a crappy week for this to come out of the blue.

 

[vetmedhead]

Does anyone have advice for making headaches die? Sincerely, someone who's been hiding under the covers all afternoon

 

[Doctor-S]

I have a periapical abscess (wisdom tooth that's 2/3 of the way erupted) that just came out of nowhere. Had some minor ear/throat pain this weekend but by the end of the day yesterday I couldn't open (and still can't) my mouth > 1 cm and swallowing is challenging. It is some pretty painful. Yesterday was my first day in a GP practice that I'll be working at so I toughed it out during the day and think that may have made it worse. I was supposed to take my Physio exam at 6 PM last night but ended up going to Urgent Care and getting started on antibiotics. My professor graciously accepted my doctor's note and is allowing for a make-up exam but only on Friday at 5:10 (the day of my second scheduled shift!). I'm in touch with my practice manager and sent along medical notes to her, and offered to come in as soon as my exam is over to help with the last appointments of the night/evening treatments, but definitely feeling a weak link right now. :-/ What a crappy week for this to come out of the blue.

@wallydo that sounds awful. Hope you get some relief soon - your mouth must be aching big time! Ouch ... no fun. Very sorry!

 

[Coopah]

Does anyone have advice for making headaches die? Sincerely, someone who's been hiding under the covers all afternoon

No screens of any kind, no lights, caffeine, and some motrin. No movement if possible. Hope you feel better.

 

[Doctor-S]

Does anyone have advice for making headaches die? Sincerely, someone who's been hiding under the covers all afternoon

Wish I could offer an "instant" headache-be-gone remedy - very sorry you're feeling badly!

Probably good idea to stay in bed ... as expertly modeled by a furry patient below.

 

[Frozenshades]

No screens of any kind, no lights, caffeine, and some motrin. No movement if possible. Hope you feel better.

Excedrin has always been my go to. Stuff works man.

 

[wallydo]

@wallydo that sounds awful. Hope you get some relief soon - your mouth must be aching big time! Ouch ... no fun. Very sorry!

View attachment 216516

Thank you, Dr S. My work was extremely accommodating so I feel much better about that. I feel instantly fortunate to be apart of this team - even with a toothache, I loved my first day! Today I've been feeling nauseous and then it clicked... 4ish years ago I had a pilonidal cyst abscess and the SMZ TMP made me really sick. Well, we weren't sure if it was the medication or the infection (I went to the ER and into surgery not long after). After today, I think it's safe to say it's the medication. Hoping switching medication won't be too terrible!

@vetmedhead - I'm sorry for your terrible headache... hope you're on the mend soon!!

 

[LetItSnow]

I guess it's kind of similar to convenience euthanasias in a way - if a client brings you a healthy dog they want you to euthanize for no appreciably good reason, do you do it because you know you can provide the peaceful, humane death and because they might take it out back and bludgeon it to death instead? Or do you turn it away and hope that because every veterinarian declines, they decide they'll keep the dog after all? In the end, it's whatever lets you sleep at night.

I think we need to quit accepting responsibility for things that aren't our responsibility.

It's my job to provide a peaceful euthanasia for patients my clients want euthanized that I feel are reasonably euthanized.

If someone brings in a pure convenience euthanasia - I'm not responsible for that patient if I refuse to provide that service (and I am super grateful my employer allows me that discretion). What they do with the patient - go throw it in a river, bludgeon it, set it on fire ... that is on their shoulders, not mine. I obviously don't want that animal to suffer, but I simply can't take responsibility for every animal just because I don't want them to suffer. That road leads to depression, exhaustion, and burn out.

It's too much.

That's the conclusion I eventually came to. It's the same way I can go home at night and sleep perfectly fine when a client declines care for an animal that's truly critical. I sent home a DKA cat a few months back that I thought probably would die on the way home, but the owners just insisted on it. *shrug* Not my responsibility. I offered help. They declined. That patient's suffering is on them.

I get what you're saying - I really do. I just finally came to the conclusion that that way of thinking would drive me crazy. But you're totally on target: we have to do what lets us sleep well at night. As long as it is within the boundaries of accepted medicine, it's all good.

 

[vetmedhead]

No screens of any kind, no lights, caffeine, and some motrin. No movement if possible. Hope you feel better.

Wish I could offer an "instant" headache-be-gone remedy - very sorry you're feeling badly!

Probably good idea to stay in bed ... as expertly modeled by a furry patient below.

View attachment 216517

Excedrin has always been my go to. Stuff works man.

Thank you, Dr S. My work was extremely accommodating so I feel much better about that. I feel instantly fortunate to be apart of this team - even with a toothache, I loved my first day! Today I've been feeling nauseous and then it clicked... 4ish years ago I had a pilonidal cyst abscess and the SMZ TMP made me really sick. Well, we weren't sure if it was the medication or the infection (I went to the ER and into surgery not long after). After today, I think it's safe to say it's the medication. Hoping switching medication won't be too terrible!

@vetmedhead - I'm sorry for your terrible headache... hope you're on the mend soon!!

Thanks for the advice everybody. I ended up skipping one of my afternoon classes, taking some aleve, and sleeping with my head under the covers for a few hours and that helped it go down enough that I could go to my evening class.

 

[that redhead]

Dog has been on fluids and gastroprotectants at work and is now home with me still on iv fluids. I'm paranoid that despite his cone he will somehow chew his line and bleed everywhere and aaagghh. Exhausted from today but not looking like a lot of sleep tonight. Everyone do their happy organ dances tonight before bed...

 

[Skimble]

I get what you're saying - I really do. I just finally came to the conclusion that that way of thinking would drive me crazy. But you're totally on target: we have to do what lets us sleep well at night. As long as it is within the boundaries of accepted method, it's all good.

I really couldn't agree with this anymore.

 

[PippyPony]

I think we need to quit accepting responsibility for things that aren't our responsibility.

It's my job to provide a peaceful euthanasia for patients my clients want euthanized that I feel are reasonably euthanized.

If someone brings in a pure convenience euthanasia - I'm not responsible for that patient if I refuse to provide that service (and I am super grateful my employer allows me that discretion). What they do with the patient - go throw it in a river, bludgeon it, set it on fire ... that is on their shoulders, not mine. I obviously don't want that animal to suffer, but I simply can't take responsibility for every animal just because I don't want them to suffer. That road leads to depression, exhaustion, and burn out.

It's too much.

That's the conclusion I eventually came to. It's the same way I can go home at night and sleep perfectly fine when a client declines care for an animal that's truly critical. I sent home a DKA cat a few months back that I thought probably would die on the way home, but the owners just insisted on it. *shrug* Not my responsibility. I offered help. They declined. That patient's suffering is on them.

I get what you're saying - I really do. I just finally came to the conclusion that that way of thinking would drive me crazy. But you're totally on target: we have to do what lets us sleep well at night. As long as it is within the boundaries of accepted method, it's all good.

I obviously haven't had to make these kinds of decisions yet, but I've spent a lot of time thinking about similar scenarios because I'm interested in ethics.

This pretty beautifully articulates the stance I've settled on.

I think it's easy for the lines of responsibility to get muddied in a field like this, and for me, I could see guilt becoming an overwhelming burden if I didn't draw some crystal clear boundaries for my own role.

People make choices in life. It is up to the individual to make those choices after they have been advised of the options that are available to them. Personally, I think I would go insane (and probably end up depressed) if I took responsibility for bad decisions made by other people. For my part, I can only do the best job I know how to do in terms of educating the client and providing reasonable options for care that are within the scope of things that I feel are ethically ok.

Gotta find your own true north and stay the course.

 

[Gemgrrrl]

I've discovered a lot of what they tell you in vet school as far as "scenarios" just don't happen out in the real world GP work, regardless of how hard you try.

Truth

 

[Gemgrrrl]

So I feel weird posting this here, but I need to get it off my chest and I like the semi-anonymity of this board (plus everyone on here seems so nice). My grandmother has been dealing with cancer on and off for the past 10 years. Now she’s at the point where it has spread and there’s nothing the doctors can do. She’s still there mentally but physically she’s really bad. I’m helping her get hospice set up at home over the next couple of days. Is there anyone on here who’s dealt with this before with their family members?

I'm so sorry to hear this. I've lot of experience with Hospice - my father, mother in law, and both grandmother's in the last 5 years, and my mom was a Hospice nurse for 11 years. Please send me a PM. I'm happy to help or just lend an ear.

 

[Gemgrrrl]

I'm in a place where I'm just really, really frustrated with all of the bs that comes with vet school. The box checking, competitiveness, loneliness, feeling like I have so little control over what is happening... I usually reach a point towards the end of the every semester where I'm exhausted and start questioning my life choices, but this time I've been fighting it since 2 weeks in.

Other current (and former) vet students - how do you pull yourself out of a funk like this?

 

[LetItSnow]

I'm in a place where I'm just really, really frustrated with all of the bs that comes with vet school. The box checking, competitiveness, loneliness, feeling like I have so little control over what is happening... I usually reach a point towards the end of the every semester where I'm exhausted and start questioning my life choices, but this time I've been fighting it since 2 weeks in.

Other current (and former) vet students - how do you pull yourself out of a funk like this?

Alcohol.

I know, really poor choice. But there you have it.

 

[Gemgrrrl]

Alcohol.

I know, really poor choice. But there you have it.

 

[LetItSnow]

Lol.

I mean. I joke, but only sorta.

Taking an evening off - or a half evening off - to just decompress with friends... laugh... bitch about school... that always helped.

Or with family.

Or just with me and my dog/dogs going for a super long walk.

But there were a lot of nights I just came home, drank a couple beers, and kept reminding myself "it's just 4 years. there's a light at the end if I just plod along and don't think about all 4 years all at once."

It sucks, but you'll make it. The problems don't get easier after school, but at least you have some choices you can make to improve things. Way easier to switch workplaces if you don't like it then to switch schools.

 

[battie]

I'm in a place where I'm just really, really frustrated with all of the bs that comes with vet school. The box checking, competitiveness, loneliness, feeling like I have so little control over what is happening... I usually reach a point towards the end of the every semester where I'm exhausted and start questioning my life choices, but this time I've been fighting it since 2 weeks in.

Other current (and former) vet students - how do you pull yourself out of a funk like this?

I've been feeling this way throughout the last quarter into the current one. We've had four people drop to the incoming class and my grades were on the fence for a bit (picked them up last quarter), so last quarter was high stress.

I have just been doing me. Not hanging around negative people, taking alone time if I need it, getting at least 6 hours of sleep a night, and looking at what I want to do. Keeping the dream alive so to speak. If other people want something from me, they gotta take a number; I'm the most important thing in my immediate life. The family and most friends have been super supportive of this life choice. 9/10 recommend (and that 1/10 can pay my tuition if they don't like it 😉)

 

[Trilt]

I'm in a place where I'm just really, really frustrated with all of the bs that comes with vet school. The box checking, competitiveness, loneliness, feeling like I have so little control over what is happening... I usually reach a point towards the end of the every semester where I'm exhausted and start questioning my life choices, but this time I've been fighting it since 2 weeks in.

Other current (and former) vet students - how do you pull yourself out of a funk like this?

time. just doing enough to get through and focusing on other, happier things in life. maybe a little bit of drinking.

but honestly just time and trudging through mostly. Fourth year got way better because everything was only two weeks, or a month, and there was always something new on the horizon.

 

[dyachei]

fwiw, on headaches sometimes using an ice pack on the back of the neck while sitting and resting your head on a desk can be helpful.

 

[vetmedhead]

Spring break is supposed to be rejuvenating or something, but all it ever does is kill my motivation completely and make me hate all my classes.

 

[cdo96]

Spring break is supposed to be rejuvenating or something, but all it ever does is kill my motivation completely and make me hate all my classes.

SAME. (She says as she SDNs from her Statistics class, a course that she no longer needs for veterinary school but DOES need to graduate. She is painfully aware of this, and she decides that C's get degrees and she'll focus all of her dedication on Physics 2... and WW.)

 

[Coopah]

SAME. (She says as she SDNs from her Statistics class, a course that she no longer needs for veterinary school but DOES need to graduate. She is painfully aware of this, and she decides that C's get degrees and she'll focus all of her dedication on Physics 2... and WW.)

DUDE! Stats rocks! (Said from a current statistician and stats major) You look me up if you need help.

 

[cdo96]

DUDE! Stats rocks! (Said from a current statistician and stats major) You look me up if you need help.

It's elementary statistics and it's not hard at all! It's just really... boring... The professor speaks extremely monotonously and I'm just sleepy.

 

[nohika]

DUDE! Stats rocks! (Said from a current statistician and stats major) You look me up if you need help.

😳 I've never been to a university that had an undergrad stats program. Do you guys still do like, modeling and whatnot? (I've only ever taken grad-level stats.)

 

[Coopah]

😳 I've never been to a university that had an undergrad stats program. Do you guys still do like, modeling and whatnot? (I've only ever taken grad-level stats.)

Yeah, it's basis Stats 1 then it gets complicated with probability and Stats 2 with ANOVA. And the only thing I remember about stats three was designing an experiment to get the most hang time out of a paper helicopter and the last class of the semester we all competed against each other for the most hang time. (We came in second!) I also took grad classes as before I switched to vet med I thought I'd get a master's in it. There was also your basic risk assessment and other smattering of courses that were mostly unnecessary (I'm looking at you linear algebra 2).

 

[nohika]

Yeah, it's basis Stats 1 then it gets complicated with probability and Stats 2 with ANOVA. And the only thing I remember about stats three was designing an experiment to get the most hang time out of a paper helicopter and the last class of the semester we all competed against each other for the most hang time. (We came in second!) I also took grad classes as before I switched to vet med I thought I'd get a master's in it. There was also your basic risk assessment and other smattering of courses that were mostly unnecessary (I'm looking at you linear algebra 2).

Interesting...that sounds nifty. 😳 I hated my first year of stats classes, and then started loving it after that. I never made it to Calculus but I've taken eight grad-level stats courses. 🙄 No idea if they'll count, though.

 

[battie]

Pro-tip: don't get a speeding ticket in Texas. It's expensive.

 

[Doctor-S]

Yeah, it's basis Stats 1 then it gets complicated with probability and Stats 2 with ANOVA. And the only thing I remember about stats three was designing an experiment to get the most hang time out of a paper helicopter and the last class of the semester we all competed against each other for the most hang time. (We came in second!) I also took grad classes as before I switched to vet med I thought I'd get a master's in it. There was also your basic risk assessment and other smattering of courses that were mostly unnecessary (I'm looking at you linear algebra 2).

A full year of stats was required for one of my degrees. At first, everyone in the class was agitated (and frustrated) about this year-long stats requirement because we didn't think stats was super-important at that time. Plus, the class was known to be challenging because the prof only taught stats, and nothing else. He lived, breathed, and loved stats; and assigned lots of homework every week. So, everyone was freaked out about the prof and the mountain of weekly homework. Well, guess what? Now, years later, I make sure many of my students are comfortable with stats, too. Reason: if they don't understand general stats, they'll often be at a disadvantage when they review journal articles, analyze data/identify patient treatments that can have a meaningful impact on outcomes, etc. Although I do not use stats everyday, it sure feels nice to be comfortable with stats. So, I can relate to @Coopah's comments in a very positive way.

 

[nohika]

A full year of stats was required for one of my degrees. At first, everyone in the class was agitated (and frustrated) about this year-long stats requirement because we didn't think stats was super-important at that time. Plus, the class was known to be challenging because the prof only taught stats, and nothing else. He lived, breathed, and loved stats; and assigned lots of homework every week. So, everyone was freaked out about the prof and the mountain of weekly homework. Well, guess what? Now, years later, I make sure many of my students are comfortable with stats, too. Reason: if they don't understand general stats, they'll often be at a disadvantage when they review journal articles, analyze data/identify patient treatments that can have a meaningful impact on outcomes, etc. Although I do not use stats everyday, it sure feels nice to be comfortable with stats. So, I can relate to @Coopah's comments in a very positive way.

I'm TAing intro stats this semester, and one thing I told students at the beginning of the class is that a good stats education means you get into a lot of fights on the internet. 😉 (Because you see and can refute the click-bait).

And will help with understanding treatments, etc. But it's important to be able to see what other people are doing and understand when stats are being manipulated.

 

[cdo96]

Pro-tip: don't get a speeding ticket in Texas. It's expensive.

I'm in Oklahoma 9 months out of a year, and then in Texas for the remainder of the year. I never get stopped in Oklahoma, I got a speeding ticket last Monday in Texas for going 11 over because they recently changed the speed limit from 55 to 45 and I was going 56. $148, not including changes to insurance.

Luckily I was able to request to do a defense driving course so all in all it'll be ~$150. It sucks. So yeah, I feel you bats.

 

[WildZoo]

I'm in Oklahoma 9 months out of a year, and then in Texas for the remainder of the year. I never get stopped in Oklahoma, I got a speeding ticket last Monday in Texas for going 11 over because they recently changed the speed limit from 55 to 45 and I was going 56. $148, not including changes to insurance.

Luckily I was able to request to do a defense driving course so all in all it'll be ~$150. It sucks. So yeah, I feel you bats.

My ticket in TN was only a little cheaper than that and they had bumped it down to the lowest category

 

[vetmedhead]

I'm in Oklahoma 9 months out of a year, and then in Texas for the remainder of the year. I never get stopped in Oklahoma, I got a speeding ticket last Monday in Texas for going 11 over because they recently changed the speed limit from 55 to 45 and I was going 56. $148, not including changes to insurance.

Luckily I was able to request to do a defense driving course so all in all it'll be ~$150. It sucks. So yeah, I feel you bats.

My ticket in TN was only a little cheaper than that and they had bumped it down to the lowest category

These numbers feel cheap to me. I've never gotten a speeding ticket but I remember when my dad got them in Phoenix they would often be close to $250 or more (granted - this was 5 years ago and also my dad is possibly the single worst driver on planet earth, so I may not be remembering this correctly).

But I did just pull this article from last year from AZ Central and it still looks like they're charging about that much if you're pulled over by an officer (it's less if you're caught on a traffic camera I believe): http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...-phoenix-traffic-ticket-becomes-243/79375008/

 

[WildZoo]

These numbers feel cheap to me. I've never gotten a speeding ticket but I remember when my dad got them in Phoenix they would often be close to $250 or more (granted - this was 5 years ago and also my dad is possibly the single worst driver on planet earth, so I may not be remembering this correctly).

But I did just pull this article from last year from AZ Central and it still looks like they're charging about that much if you're pulled over by an officer (it's less if you're caught on a traffic camera I believe): http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...-phoenix-traffic-ticket-becomes-243/79375008/

That would basically be my food budget for a month, jesus

 

[battie]

I'm in Oklahoma 9 months out of a year, and then in Texas for the remainder of the year. I never get stopped in Oklahoma, I got a speeding ticket last Monday in Texas for going 11 over because they recently changed the speed limit from 55 to 45 and I was going 56. $148, not including changes to insurance.

Luckily I was able to request to do a defense driving course so all in all it'll be ~$150. It sucks. So yeah, I feel you bats.

It's $255, and no option to do the driving course cause I can't do it down there/aren't a resident. I want to look at google maps and actually see the road. I don't remember the speed limiting being 55 before the cop (who was parked around a blind turn in front of the 55 mph sign), and I could have definitely be slowed down to 55 by that sign as I pulled over ten feet after it. I'm normally way good around small towns after living in Nebraska for so long.