StardeWW 2: Ginger Island - GAME THREAD

[Lawpy]

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Because PSV/pshelty claimed to be blocked N2

Which Barky apparently verified

But i’m not sure how this rules her out as being a wolf if Staggs did the kills

 

[Lawpy]

@Barkley13 ignore me if this is too direct, but can you tell us what you found out about PSV the other night?

Oh I blocked her on the night there were two kills

Saving for reference

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

Yes but i’m feeling conflicted because even following strictly on the mechanical route and assuming PSV/pshelty’s statements are true, it doesn’t add up and it doesn’t rule out her being a wolf. So i’m lost here

I don’t think the claim is clearing, and as a general rule any mechanical claim made at LyLo has to be viewed as more uncertain. Creating a mechanical pretzel in the dialogue would kind of be the point for mafia.

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

Even if “watcher” is accepted, it’s NAI. There is no confirmation at all of a second block. As far as I am concerned it’s not a question of mechanics. It’s a question of belief.

 

[miranda920]

So Staggs likely killed Zenges N2 and the iridium bomb thingy was used to kill samacs the same night.

So they were not killed in the same manner? Are we suspecting that Stagg killed Zenge and used an item as well? Or that someone else killed samac

 

[Lawpy]

So they were not killed in the same manner? Are we suspecting that Stagg killed Zenge and used an item as well? Or that someone else killed samac

The bomb thingy appeared to be an extra kill item from the writeups

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

Yes, it is difficult to do much with the Barkley block given that Stagg could have delivered both kills. I can't speak for SDN norms, but in my experience that'd be the standard play anyway. Two killers doubles the possibility of getting caught by an investigative role.

 

[Lawpy]

Even if “watcher” is accepted, it’s NAI. There is no confirmation at all of a second block. As far as I am concerned it’s not a question of mechanics. It’s a question of belief.

I don’t have anything to clear PSV/pshelty then.

 

[supershorty]

Sometimes, you just need to ly lo - Day 7 Tally

miranda ()
PSV (2) - Lawpy, JJJ
JJJ (1) - PSV

Missing: @miranda920

Vote closes TODAY, 3/29, at 9 PM CDT (~9 hours).

 

[Lawpy]

The only truly solid village read I have that I think is non-negotiable for me is PSV. Im open to looking anywhere else.

That said, after yesterday I do truly believe that Miranda is village. It's nothing other than tone and how she responded to things yesterday but I do feel quite strongly about it.

Was it you that posted the colour coded tallies yesterday? I think I want to look at them again given Stagg's flip

SAR started out the previous cycle with this

 

[Lawpy]

It still just comes back to the D1 tie and I know there's a ton of WIFOM about how that went down but I just don't see wolf!PSV potentially endangering 3 wolves with that move. That said, if Barks flips village then that does become my weakest village argument so I think I overstated my confidence in that read with all the waffling and reevaluating I've been trying to do

But then ended with this

 

[Lawpy]

This is an interesting post from Stagg because everyone mentioned has flipped except PSV and Barks. I feel in a post like this that mentions so much of the roster, high chance a wolf gets mentioned here especially with Stagg deepwolfing.

So I feel good about the direction we are going with Barks and considering PSV tomorrow if we're still here

Also this

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

SAR definitely came around on that read. She might have had a Dubz-like moment of reevaluation.

 

[Lawpy]

Sorry guys, Mondays are long and I promised my coworkers to bring a gender reveal cake tomorrow so my whole evening has been cakeing and then my buttercream I made yesterday tried to separate so I'm paddling it into submission.

I still intend to finish my Barks iso but I think the vote being either PSV or Barks today is probably the best case scenario given the reevaluating I've done in the past day cycle.

Lawp and Stagg's interactions really make me feel village. I don't see a world in which it's JJJ or Miranda. So while Barks is currently my top, PSV would be my next day elimination.

Also this

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I don’t have anything to clear PSV/pshelty then.

That's because you don't want to.

 

[Lawpy]

That's because you don't want to.

Then help me out pls. Show me where I’m wrong and you’re village.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

JJJ feels like everything is coming from six feet behind him. Like he is speaking through a filter. It's just... off. Again, I can't answer for the deepwolfing. Only he can answer that question, and for obvious reasons, he's not talking.
Lawpy, you can't see how he's been gently nudging you along this entire game like a kid slowly kicking a soccer ball into a net? You're so far in his pocket JJJ's going to start spewing rainbows out of his butt.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Then help me out pls. Show me where I’m wrong and you’re village.

I've tried. What else do you want me to do, exactly?

 

[Lawpy]

JJJ feels like everything is coming from six feet behind him. Like he is speaking through a filter. It's just... off. Again, I can't answer for the deepwolfing. Only he can answer that question, and for obvious reasons, he's not talking.
Lawpy, you can't see how he's been gently nudging you along this entire game like a kid slowly kicking a soccer ball into a net? You're so far in his pocket JJJ's going to start spewing rainbows out of his butt.

Ok deepwolfing aside, what is your case that you’re village and your case that Jays is wolfing? Because i spent a lot of time trying to piece out the mechanics and i’m not sure how that shows you’re village. And is there something concrete and concerning about Jays posts besides feels? Because i’m aware i could be pocketed but i don’t know where. You made a case comparing Jays posts here and in Watch game and they look similar even by your admission except you felt Jays here feels off.

 

[Lawpy]

Like do you think Jays isn’t solving here and is just following my lead by selectively targeting his interaction analyses to give support to my misguided suspicions?

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

JJJ feels like everything is coming from six feet behind him. Like he is speaking through a filter. It's just... off. Again, I can't answer for the deepwolfing. Only he can answer that question, and for obvious reasons, he's not talking.
Lawpy, you can't see how he's been gently nudging you along this entire game like a kid slowly kicking a soccer ball into a net? You're so far in his pocket JJJ's going to start spewing rainbows out of his butt.

I'm off. I'm fake. I'm inauthentic. I'm gently nudging. These blanket assessments of my play are both vague and untrue. I'm trying my best to solve a challenging game, and right now the solve seems most likely to be you.

 

[Lawpy]

I've tried. What else do you want me to do, exactly?

What is your case that you’re village? Because i saw it’s mechanics + Staggs vote. Is there something else?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Ok deepwolfing aside, what is your case that you’re village and your case that Jays is wolfing? Because i spent a lot of time trying to piece out the mechanics and i’m not sure how that shows you’re village. And is there something concrete and concerning about Jays posts besides feels? Because i’m aware i could be pocketed but i don’t know where. You made a case comparing Jays posts here and in Watch game and they look similar even by your admission except you felt Jays here feels off.

What is my case that I'm village?? I don't need a case lol. I have a role PM.
Again, I've stated it multiple times. There is no specific thing I can point to and say "hey, JJJ is totally a wolf!" by process of elimination that is the only thing that makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[Lawpy]

What is my case that I'm village?? I don't need a case lol. I have a role PM.
Again, I've stated it multiple times. There is no specific thing I can point to and say "hey, JJJ is totally a wolf!" by process of elimination that is the only thing that makes any sense whatsoever.

pshelty pls i just need to know your defense

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

Spoiler

My current POE is Santy, Clem, Stagg, lucy, alley, and PSV.

I’d swap PSV and Stagg, with Clem and Barks.

Waiting on AM’s Lawpy read.

Village:
Dubz
Zenge
SAR
JJJ
alley
Lawpy

Lean cause santy:
Clem
lucy

Null
genny
Stagg
miranda
PSV

POE
Nate
Barks


I feel pretty good about alley but maybe something different happened N1.

Jay town dubz town lucy town

So I kinda just want to kill lawpy barky alley in the reverse order and see what happens

Trying to find consolidated reads of some kind for the early game night kills. They may not all be the most recent reads, since they didn't always list people in this organized way. PSV had some support from Zenge with a caveat. Otherwise she was a middling read or worse.

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

Though technically that Zenge post in the spoiler is in response to a Dubz reads list, which was presented most-to-least suspicious. So Zenge's "swap" would place PSV in a more suspicious slot (within the same tier).

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

Their views of miranda seemed to be slightly more positive overall (or less negative). Only Clem was anti-Lawpy.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

pshelty pls i just need to know your defense

My defense.
Okay well mighty was a long lost cause so making a tie between him and vis is risky. Hopping on him would've been a better move.
Vis was a sinking ship but Stagg didn't have to be. Could've worked to preserve the single packmates still alive by pushing you, Miranda, idk who else was still alive at that point.
Leaving Dubz alive til endgame was pretty effective for me last time.
Zero reason to keep you alive. You've been sussing me forever. I wouldn't want you here. You're dead long before SAR or Dubz even.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Clem's dying as soon as he makes the yo mama joke.
I don't like making predictable NKs. I like letting people play. Killing samac and Zenge early followed by AM is about as predictable as it gets.
I voiced excitement to play with samac again. Winning is less important to me than everyone getting to play and have fun-- see me leaving Zenge alone in WWildzoo. I wouldn't have killed samac until at least N3, and it irritates me that she died when she did. Zenge too.
Waffling on vis is useless. Commit to a village read on your packmate or commit to bussing.

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

I am increasingly inclined to believe PSV is the wolf. I really do admire the hustle, but I don't think the defenses apply without significant wifom, and her overall treatment of this LyLo phase (hammering away at me regardless of evidence or argument while locking everyone else quite quickly) does not reconcile with a town mindset in a very confusing game and difficult situation.

I'll still be teaching this evening, but I'll be around over the last couple of hours or so once I finish

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I am increasingly inclined to believe PSV is the wolf. I really do admire the hustle, but I don't think the defenses apply without significant wifom, and her overall treatment of this LyLo phase (hammering away at me regardless of evidence or argument while locking everyone else quite quickly) does not reconcile with a town mindset in a very confusing game and difficult situation.

I'll still be teaching this evening, but I'll be around over the last couple of hours or so once I finish

To you, it's WIFOM. Lawpy KNOWS me. He's wolfed with me. He's villaged with me. He knows what I'm saying is true.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

You've been quiet, @miranda920. This isn't shyLo. What's up?

 

[Lawpy]

Zero reason to keep you alive. You've been sussing me forever. I wouldn't want you here. You're dead long before SAR or Dubz even.

You kept me alive in Bowling and Literary Fiction though

 

[potentialsheltervet]

You kept me alive in Bowling and Literary Fiction though

Well, first of all, those games were both a year or more ago. I can't remember whether you were wolfreading me.
Second, I was a noob in Bowwling and we were all losing our minds in Lit.
Third, I made a whole lot of points. That's the only one you're going to respond to?

 

[Lawpy]

Well, first of all, those games were both a year or more ago. I can't remember whether you were wolfreading me.
Second, I was a noob in Bowwling and we were all losing our minds in Lit.
Third, I made a whole lot of points. That's the only one you're going to respond to?

No i’m going to address the rest but these 2 are important because i don’t know what other games i played with wolf!you

 

[miranda920]

You've been quiet, @miranda920. This isn't shyLo. What's up?

Hi I’m currently vet tech Miranda and my day has not been puppies and kittens ☹️
I’m heading home in the next hour

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

I don't like making predictable NKs. I like letting people play.

Does this mesh with the claim that you'd have killed Lawpy?

 

[Lawpy]

I haven't invoked player salad in a while since it's pretty much dead on The Syndicate, but I doubt anyone has brought it here. So. Player salad!

From Watch game

 

[Lawpy]

Truey was village in that game though

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

From Watch game

Good old player salad! That one was like the prototype version too, but it seems it didn't work that time.

 

[Lawpy]

I feel if Jays is a wolf here, i’d expect a powerwolf not a deepwolf

 

[Lawpy]

Because a wolf!Jays in powerwolf style would aim to take a more democratic leader type of role here by trying to crowd source opinions and directing village to their doom.

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

I certainly prefer the "powerwolf" mode. Coordinating with pack mates and working together might be the only thing that prevents being mafia-aligned from being so miserable that I never play at all.

 

[Lawpy]

While I am not a “never busser”, I do think it’s bad and overdone and also hate playing in opposition to my own team in any alignment. Teamwork is the whole reason I even enjoy playing this game.

Hmm

 

[Lawpy]

This appears to be it from Nate about lucy on Day 1, so mafia probably had no specific reason to think he wasn't voting there.

I’m not sure what you mean here

 

[Lawpy]

unvote PSV
vote Barky

Why the switch?

 

[Lawpy]

The Barky/Stagg interaction definitely needs a deep dive. It was a "light green" in my previous interaction chart, suggesting a sort of low confidence dissociation. We raise the bar at this stage of play, and so I will take another look and probably provide a more thorough review for everyone to take in.

I’m not sure if you followed up on this deep dive at the time. Hold pls

 

[Jagged Jimmy Jay]

Hmm

I've been playing for a long time, so there are few things I have never done. But I do have strong preferences against bussing though.

 

[Lawpy]

Currently reviewing JJJ’s posts because I don’t remember why he was eliminated from the POE

so far I see it was 2 votes each for mighty, vis, and Lucy and he broke it toward mighty but I’m not seeing it as clearing anymore? Because who knows what the conversations were in wolf chat and if/when they decided bussing was the way to go

But I will keep reading

I'd be interested to know how you feel about my interactions with Viscernable.

This was in response to barky’s questioning of jays

 

[Lawpy]

First mention of stagg I’ve found, NAI

I believe this was in response to vis commenting about JJJ asked questions. The interaction could be seen as distancing so still NAI

…I don’t remember what this was referring to

This was an interesting post but could be an attempt at distancing

Mighty mention, NAI

Vis mention, NAI

and then unless I’m missing posts, this vote seemed to come out of nowhere

Mighty’s posts, but no comments on it yet

Asking questions about mighty, NAI

A hedgy view on stagg based on interactions with mighty


A more favorable view on stagg based on interactions with vis
Which fair because pushing for a vis info yeet was a little odd but doesn’t exactly give JJJ any more village points

Linked the game that had been referenced about stagg’s bussing but does have the caveat of “it was quite a long time ago”

Very sudden vote on stagg. Again, unless I missed something then I didn’t see any suspicions leading up to this

Stagg mention coming after the vote

And then explanation for the stagg vote

With regard to Barky's comments:

Some credit for my votes for mighty and Stagg in this game is owed to both samac and Dubz respectively. samac was my top town read throughout the Day 0/1 period, and when she went after mighty that influenced me a lot. When I looked through mighty's posts myself, I found the one that I highlighted that was a big ping (handing samac "village points" for an analysis that he was intent to refute point-by-point struck me as incongruent). So that moment, combined with a healthy amount of samac sheeping, is what put my vote on mighty.

Then it was Dubz' post in the night phase prior to Stagg's elimination. Immediately after voting for Stagg I said this:


because that post was an important mindset-mover for me. She deserves a lot of credit for that, and she went down with a bang. To be clear, it's the same post Barkley referenced a moment ago. When I thought over that and considered the compatibility dynamics I was analyzing all day, in addition to what I was hearing from genny, I decided Stagg was a better vote than miranda.

I have a moment, so I am going to look into some Stagg interactions more thoroughly.

Further response from jays to barky’s case on him + jays post on looking into staggs interactions