The Good PWWace - GAME THREAD

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I don't think removing the Bad Place demon(s) from the game is necessary or sufficient for village to win based on the rules, the flips we have so far, and my own wincon.

I think that's all I can say about it :thinking:

Essentially you're saying we can just ignore the individual wincons and win by playing the game like it's a normal wolf vs village game. I reject that assertion. From a mod perspective it would make very little sense.
 
WildZoo said:
Essentially you're saying we can just ignore the individual wincons and win by playing the game like it's a normal wolf vs village game. I reject that assertion. From a mod perspective it would make very little sense.
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That's a fair take
 
GoSpursGo said:
Cooking on my legacy... AM what did you mean by this, in relation to CG? Do you still feel this way, and if so, why?
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I remember her joining the Clem wagon when it was still feasible to yeet Zenge but I've yet to look at the surrounding context.
 
I'm know some people are in the 3p!Clem camp, but then why didn't he close day early? Nothing to lose, right?
 
Animal Midwife said:
Right. And he was a wagon on D2. So he knew time was limited. So why not submit on N2?
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Would you submit an ability that would close the day early knowing the most likely outcome was taking away any chance you had of wriggling out of the vote?

It said early day close, not day cancel
 
CeeGee14 said:
My thought process as well.

What would an early day close have done? Would we just skip D3 and go straight to N3?
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I very much doubt this or else it would have been called a day cancel
 
WildZoo said:
Would you submit an ability that would close the day early knowing the most likely outcome was taking away any chance you had of wriggling out of the vote?

It said early day close, not day cancel
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None of his posts indicated any sort of self-preservation. He only popped in to meme. So, again, why wouldn't he just close it early so he could end on a troll note?
 
Animal Midwife said:
None of his posts indicated any sort of self-preservation. He only popped in to meme. So, again, why wouldn't he just close it early so he could end on a troll note?
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Tbh I can't answer that question. I don't know the mind of Clem.

What's your alternative for why he didn't use it?
 
WildZoo said:
It says "1x early day close with a time that had to be submitted during the preceding night cycle."
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I missed that and thought he had to submit it and then had free range choose any time the next day like normal. But since he could choose at night, I can't think of a single reason he wouldn't just pick 9 PM and just have the yeet randed, giving him the highest probability of living another cycle. So now my belief is even stronger.
 
Animal Midwife said:
I missed that and thought he had to submit it and then had free range choose any time the next day like normal. But since he could choose at night, I can't think of a single reason he wouldn't just pick 9 PM and just have the yeet randed, giving him the highest probability of living another cycle. So now my belief is even stronger.
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Like essentially use it as a day cancel? From a mod perspective I don't think I would allow that lol if they wanted him to have a day cancel they'd have given him one.

Anyway if that were the possible idk why he wouldn't use it that way as any affiliation rather than letting himself die?

Like I get what you're saying about getting his packmates on the vote but
1) I still think it would have been MOST beneficial to coordinate them doing that early and
2) if they hadn't already been bussing prior, jumping on d3 wasn't going to get them much cred anyway
 
Alrighty, here's my best without the opportunity to review as in depth as I have previously (oops this was a lie--Spurs at the end of writing this). Still worth considering impact of who is chosen for NK, esp if it isn't one of the ones that I think we all suspect are prime candidates.

Scum reads for me, in no particular order, is @_rae_ , @genny , @CeeGee14 , @samac . Individually sus, IMO, and largely not compatible which is problematic. But I think 1-2 of these are scum. Importantly, even if I say they are not compatible on the same agenda, they could have separate scum agendas that are compatible
-genny: still grinding gears. Still limited needling of her apparent POE. Honestly, the longer I look at it the more I suspect they're just super busy, and came in yesterday when Clem was already a clear wagon so there was limited opportunity to do much yesterday. But I don't have any good reason to move her out of this group. Probably not compatible with rae as scum with the same agenda, but if we were to entertain the idea of more than one faction they could be using each other to push separate agendas..
-rae: I have spent a lot of time needling rae over the last 48h, and I just don't like her reads. Don't like the people in the village blocc. Either they just fundamentally see the game very differently from me, or they are pushing an agenda. Probably not compatible with genny or samac as scum with the same agenda, but if we were to entertain the idea of more than one faction they could be using each other to push separate agendas.
-CG: Has tried to be more active in the last couple of days, but I find it interesting to me that despite apparently thinking the village is still trying to eliminate demons, CG is still mostly talking about mech (or at least that is what has stuck out most to me). I think compatible with all, though tbh I have not done an in depth vote analysis.
-samac: As I mentioned, sure seems like not village based on available info. Even if 3P... nothing says they have an agenda that is compatible with village agenda. Probably not compatible with rae as scum with the same agenda, but if we were to entertain the idea of more than one faction they could be using each other to push separate agendas.; I would need to go back and look at interactions closer to know if compatible with genny.

Possible scum: @screamqueenbee
-SQB Still a little all over the place, either play style or could be pushing an agenda. Compatible with all of the above players I think with possible exception of rae.

I guess lean village, in no particular order: @WildZoo , @finnickthedog .
-dubZ: Originally had paired with samac, and said W/W pairing was unlikely, so if I think samac is likely scum I think dubZ is likely not scum. I'll be honest, there is... a LOT of mech, which I don't love, but it's also interspersed with player reads. Maybe just the inner mod and game designer coming out? I'll stay with what I originally said about this not being a W/W pair with samac, so lean village.
-finn: Ironically, despite saying that yesterday wasn't wasted, finn was one of the players I wanted to see speak up a little more yesterday. Really was focused almost solely on Clem for a good while, and now pretty focused on rae. That said, does get credit for being early on vote for Clem, but I'm watching a little closer here.

Currently town in my reads, in no particular order: @Animal Midwife , @Barkley13 , @kitzsuna . I have seen nothing in particular from these players to raise a red flag for me. I like AM's questioning, Barks has been less active but looked to me like they were making an effort to at least explore a few players outside Clem, and kitz is heart of the village n00b.
 
GoSpursGo said:
Alrighty, here's my best without the opportunity to review as in depth as I have previously (oops this was a lie--Spurs at the end of writing this). Still worth considering impact of who is chosen for NK, esp if it isn't one of the ones that I think we all suspect are prime candidates.

Scum reads for me, in no particular order, is @_rae_ , @genny , @CeeGee14 , @samac . Individually sus, IMO, and largely not compatible which is problematic. But I think 1-2 of these are scum. Importantly, even if I say they are not compatible on the same agenda, they could have separate scum agendas that are compatible
-genny: still grinding gears. Still limited needling of her apparent POE. Honestly, the longer I look at it the more I suspect they're just super busy, and came in yesterday when Clem was already a clear wagon so there was limited opportunity to do much yesterday. But I don't have any good reason to move her out of this group. Probably not compatible with rae as scum with the same agenda, but if we were to entertain the idea of more than one faction they could be using each other to push separate agendas..
-rae: I have spent a lot of time needling rae over the last 48h, and I just don't like her reads. Don't like the people in the village blocc. Either they just fundamentally see the game very differently from me, or they are pushing an agenda. Probably not compatible with genny or samac as scum with the same agenda, but if we were to entertain the idea of more than one faction they could be using each other to push separate agendas.
-CG: Has tried to be more active in the last couple of days, but I find it interesting to me that despite apparently thinking the village is still trying to eliminate demons, CG is still mostly talking about mech (or at least that is what has stuck out most to me). I think compatible with all, though tbh I have not done an in depth vote analysis.
-samac: As I mentioned, sure seems like not village based on available info. Even if 3P... nothing says they have an agenda that is compatible with village agenda. Probably not compatible with rae as scum with the same agenda, but if we were to entertain the idea of more than one faction they could be using each other to push separate agendas.; I would need to go back and look at interactions closer to know if compatible with genny.

Possible scum: @screamqueenbee
-SQB Still a little all over the place, either play style or could be pushing an agenda. Compatible with all of the above players I think with possible exception of rae.

I guess lean village, in no particular order: @WildZoo , @finnickthedog .
-dubZ: Originally had paired with samac, and said W/W pairing was unlikely, so if I think samac is likely scum I think dubZ is likely not scum. I'll be honest, there is... a LOT of mech, which I don't love, but it's also interspersed with player reads. Maybe just the inner mod and game designer coming out? I'll stay with what I originally said about this not being a W/W pair with samac, so lean village.
-finn: Ironically, despite saying that yesterday wasn't wasted, finn was one of the players I wanted to see speak up a little more yesterday. Really was focused almost solely on Clem for a good while, and now pretty focused on rae. That said, does get credit for being early on vote for Clem, but I'm watching a little closer here.

Currently town in my reads, in no particular order: @Animal Midwife , @Barkley13 , @kitzsuna . I have seen nothing in particular from these players to raise a red flag for me. I like AM's questioning, Barks has been less active but looked to me like they were making an effort to at least explore a few players outside Clem, and kitz is heart of the village n00b.
Click to expand...
Holy wall post, Batman
 
GoSpursGo said:
Alrighty, here's my best without the opportunity to review as in depth as I have previously (oops this was a lie--Spurs at the end of writing this). Still worth considering impact of who is chosen for NK, esp if it isn't one of the ones that I think we all suspect are prime candidates.

Scum reads for me, in no particular order, is @_rae_ , @genny , @CeeGee14 , @samac . Individually sus, IMO, and largely not compatible which is problematic. But I think 1-2 of these are scum. Importantly, even if I say they are not compatible on the same agenda, they could have separate scum agendas that are compatible
-genny: still grinding gears. Still limited needling of her apparent POE. Honestly, the longer I look at it the more I suspect they're just super busy, and came in yesterday when Clem was already a clear wagon so there was limited opportunity to do much yesterday. But I don't have any good reason to move her out of this group. Probably not compatible with rae as scum with the same agenda, but if we were to entertain the idea of more than one faction they could be using each other to push separate agendas..
-rae: I have spent a lot of time needling rae over the last 48h, and I just don't like her reads. Don't like the people in the village blocc. Either they just fundamentally see the game very differently from me, or they are pushing an agenda. Probably not compatible with genny or samac as scum with the same agenda, but if we were to entertain the idea of more than one faction they could be using each other to push separate agendas.
-CG: Has tried to be more active in the last couple of days, but I find it interesting to me that despite apparently thinking the village is still trying to eliminate demons, CG is still mostly talking about mech (or at least that is what has stuck out most to me). I think compatible with all, though tbh I have not done an in depth vote analysis.
-samac: As I mentioned, sure seems like not village based on available info. Even if 3P... nothing says they have an agenda that is compatible with village agenda. Probably not compatible with rae as scum with the same agenda, but if we were to entertain the idea of more than one faction they could be using each other to push separate agendas.; I would need to go back and look at interactions closer to know if compatible with genny.

Possible scum: @screamqueenbee
-SQB Still a little all over the place, either play style or could be pushing an agenda. Compatible with all of the above players I think with possible exception of rae.

I guess lean village, in no particular order: @WildZoo , @finnickthedog .
-dubZ: Originally had paired with samac, and said W/W pairing was unlikely, so if I think samac is likely scum I think dubZ is likely not scum. I'll be honest, there is... a LOT of mech, which I don't love, but it's also interspersed with player reads. Maybe just the inner mod and game designer coming out? I'll stay with what I originally said about this not being a W/W pair with samac, so lean village.
-finn: Ironically, despite saying that yesterday wasn't wasted, finn was one of the players I wanted to see speak up a little more yesterday. Really was focused almost solely on Clem for a good while, and now pretty focused on rae. That said, does get credit for being early on vote for Clem, but I'm watching a little closer here.

Currently town in my reads, in no particular order: @Animal Midwife , @Barkley13 , @kitzsuna . I have seen nothing in particular from these players to raise a red flag for me. I like AM's questioning, Barks has been less active but looked to me like they were making an effort to at least explore a few players outside Clem, and kitz is heart of the village n00b.
Click to expand...
Did you do all this on mobile? If so, respect
 
WildZoo said:
Like essentially use it as a day cancel? From a mod perspective I don't think I would allow that lol if they wanted him to have a day cancel they'd have given him one.
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Day cancel is an EOD thing without death. Early close is an any time thing with death. So they're not at all similar.
WildZoo said:
Anyway if that were the possible idk why he wouldn't use it that way as any affiliation rather than letting himself die?

Like I get what you're saying about getting his packmates on the vote but
1) I still think it would have been MOST beneficial to coordinate them doing that early and
2) if they hadn't already been bussing prior, jumping on d3 wasn't going to get them much cred anyway
Click to expand...
That's exactly why I'm suspicious. When he was literally village, he vigged less than 10 minutes into SOD1 solely because he thought it'd be hilarious and he fully knew such a move would likely get him killed in retaliation if wrong. So why be careful now when the worst case scenario was him dying anyway?
 
Animal Midwife said:
Day cancel is an EOD thing without death. Early close is an any time thing with death. So they're not at all similar.
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Regardless of how you want to semantics it, being able to cancel the entire day cycle before it starts is not really the intention behind an early close ability
 
Animal Midwife said:
That's exactly why I'm suspicious. When he was literally village, he vigged less than 10 minutes into SOD1 solely because he thought it'd be hilarious and he fully knew such a move would likely get him killed in retaliation if wrong. So why be careful now when the worst case scenario was him dying anyway?
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Idk man I just don't think that any of this indicates he was just a wolf?

Good to see you participating in the tinfoil though 😉
 
WildZoo said:
Regardless of how you want to semantics it, being able to cancel the entire day cycle before it starts is not really the intention behind an early cancel ability
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It's not a cancel though. It's an early close.
 
Animal Midwife said:
It's not a cancel though. It's an early close.
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Sorry, I meant an early close ability.

I just don't think he would have been allowed to use it the way you're proposing. But even if it did, in your world, wolf!Clem closes early and it rands...what's to stop it from randing onto a packmate?
 
WildZoo said:
Idk man I just don't think that any of this indicates he was just a wolf?

Good to see you participating in the tinfoil though 😉
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It's not a tinfoil if it's based on verifiable evidence. My point is that Clem has nothing to lose even if something is technically antivillage. Which frustrates me a lot but may finally be coming into use for comparing playing in a way that's irregular for him.
 
WildZoo said:
Sorry, I meant an early close ability.

I just don't think he would have been allowed to use it the way you're proposing. But even if it did, in your world, wolf!Clem closes early and it rands...what's to stop it from randing onto a packmate?
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Free cred, all the better for him.
 
Animal Midwife said:
It's not a tinfoil if it's based on verifiable evidence. My point is that Clem has nothing to lose even if something is technically antivillage. Which frustrates me a lot but may finally be coming into use for comparing playing in a way that's irregular for him.
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I would consider calling Clem a wolf tinfoil, sorry. You're warping the provided structure of the game to fit your worldview.
 
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