The Grad School Thread

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Definitely speak with his students if you can. Will you be able to visit in person before you apply? Is it a poultry lab, or something completely different than what you've done for your MS? If it doesn't feel right it's definitely worth while to take time off and find a better fit for your career and research goals.

I'm convinced the GRE is a bull **** measurement of potential. It's always nice to do well on those things, but I wouldn't let a low score convince you that you'll do poorly in coursework. There's a reason my department doesn't require the GRE for applicants.
Yea he told me to talk to his current students and a student I know who’s taken his class.

He’s mostly animal genetics but collaborated with people in Poultry Science so it wouldn’t be too foreign to me. I’m just worried about the math side. He told me he’s want me to do 4 years instead of 3 because I need to catch up on math courses but would figure out funding. The funding which he is 80% sure of.
 
Yea he told me to talk to his current students and a student I know who’s taken his class.

He’s mostly animal genetics but collaborated with people in Poultry Science so it wouldn’t be too foreign to me. I’m just worried about the math side. He told me he’s want me to do 4 years instead of 3 because I need to catch up on math courses but would figure out funding. The funding which he is 80% sure of.

Are you looking at other labs as well?
 
Yea he told me to talk to his current students and a student I know who’s taken his class.

He’s mostly animal genetics but collaborated with people in Poultry Science so it wouldn’t be too foreign to me. I’m just worried about the math side. He told me he’s want me to do 4 years instead of 3 because I need to catch up on math courses but would figure out funding. The funding which he is 80% sure of.


Anything less than 100% sure is 0% sure in term of research funding. "Figuring out funding" is worrisome language.
 
With where you ended up in the end, do you think you could have ended up in the same/similar place had you gone through a non-DVM avenue (whether it be grad school only vs. MD pathologist/PhD)? And if so, would you have preferred to have gone that route? Do you feel like vet pathology is still your passion. And is the path you've taken one you would take again, if you were to do this over again?

A long, somewhat complicated, but ultimately somewhat positive answer awaits. Probably Monday when I have a better keyboard than my iPad.
 
Are you looking at other labs as well?
VT is my #1 and I have my current lab as back up possibly.

Which reminds me. Yell at me if I don’t finish that app tomorrow
 
Anything less than 100% sure is 0% sure in term of research funding. "Figuring out funding" is worrisome language.
Yea that’s what I’m thinking. It was originally a USDA grant that I would be working under but that ran out. And I can’t afford the program without the funding. Hopefully I get into VT so I wouldn’t need to worry
 
With where you ended up in the end, do you think you could have ended up in the same/similar place had you gone through a non-DVM avenue (whether it be grad school only vs. MD pathologist/PhD)? And if so, would you have preferred to have gone that route? Do you feel like vet pathology is still your passion. And is the path you've taken one you would take again, if you were to do this over again?


Grad school only? Meh. If I had wanted a research career, I would have had 4-6 years of post-doc work after my PhD anyway, so it wouldn't have likely been that much faster. Plus, I've become very disillusioned in the ponzi scheme that is academic research, and can't imagine spending the rest of my life living on the edge of grant money and losing my job, spending all my time in an office writing grants, obsessing over publication count, and dealing with the myriad of political bull**** all of that entails.

MD pathologist? Sure I could have done it. Probably would have liked it. I would have missed the species variation as well as disease diversity, though. MD pathologists have me way beat on depth of knowledge in immunostaining and all the expensive and finer points of diagnosis...many of them work within even more finely detailed specialities such as renal path or GI path....however, I have more breadth. I can look at any organ, from any animal, in any disease process and do so on a regular basis. Was it worth the pay cut? The jury's still out.

A slight rant on passion (not a negative response to your question, but the word always just makes me think) -

I guess you could say pathology is still my passion....but I'll be honest. It's my job and what I'm interested in. Not my passion. My passion is what is outside of my job. Around the time I turned 30 I began looking at my "career" in a much different light. Because you know what? Your "career" means jack in terms of the universe. No one wishes they worked harder or worked more hours on their deathbeds. They wish they had spent more time enjoying other things.

Now, these are some people whose work is absolutely their passion, and their one and only. The Elon Musk and Steve Jobs types of the world. And those people are amazing. But most of us aren't like that, and if we try to make our jobs (which are really only there to put money on the table and give us a basic sense of fulfillment) our main passion and give up everything for them...we're going to end up neglecting the things that are just as (and often more so ) important - our health, our hobbies, our families and friends.

Do I like my job? Of course! The students are great, my coworkers are great, I'm learning a lot about modern teaching methods, and seeing all the crossover in human med is awesome. But it is still just my job. That's it. I don't make it any more than it is. My happiness comes from my SO and my non-work activities and interests. THAT is the **** you live for an remember. Again, only a crazy person is going to thinking at 70 years old: "Man, I wish I had lived apart from my SO for longer to keep advancing my career" or "Man, I wish I had spent even less time with my kids so I could have gotten those extra awards" or "Damn, I shoulda spent more time in the office and less time hiking in Iceland". To heck with that noise.

Now, this isn't a pink frosted DO WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY type of advice column here. In fact, this is why I often caution people interested in vet school - because the debt and lifestyle makes it very, very hard to cultivate these other essential aspects of your life.

So would I have done it again for the position I'm in? Yes. I really freaking love vet med, for all its faults. However, this comes with a caveat - I would have been miserable as a GP. I would have never done a DVM alone. I don't know how all of you GP heroes do it. If I hadn't gotten a residency, I probably would have done a PhD after vet school and tried to get into comparative med another way.

Are their aspects of my choices I regret? Sure. I do regret the PhD, even though I could argue it was almost a necessity to attain the flexibilityI needed in the job market. It was a hardest 5 years of my life and miserable. It was just to get it on my resume so I would be competitive and have more jobs open to me - again, so I could have that flexibility, have more doors open, and be able to work the other parts of my life around my job. I'm 34 and let me tell you, I'm DONE with school and trying to advance myself into infinity with letters after my name. I'm going to enjoy what I have and excel in different areas. Becoming a better and better educator. Becoming a better and better person. Becoming a happier person.

Should I have gone MD? Probably, and I probably would have been happy doing that as well. I like vet med better.....but I would potentially have been able to get a similar position to the one I have without the PhD (at least as far as I have seen, MDs can easily be professors at med schools, while vet schools seem to want their faculty to be DVM+PhD - not a hard and fast rule, but seemingly a significant trend). And its hard to argue with that.

But this long road has taught me more about what I should be really enjoying and focusing on in life - and that's not your job. Sure, you have to like it a little bit. If you love it, great! But this idea of the perfect job that if you just get enough degrees you'll end up in is BS. There is no use busting your ass your entire life until you're too old to reap the rewards.
 
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I read a lot of the posts here but do not comment hardly anymore as many of the vets here are finding out that veterinary medicine is far from being "the greatest profession". WTF points out very important points that any veterinarian who aspires to research must work harder and longer for less reward and less security. I think it is much better to either go PhD and specialize early in a field of your interest and strengths rather than dither in the multiple subjects getting a DVM then getting a PhD. MD pathology, especially forensic pathology would be exciting for sure. Or maybe just get an engineering/physical science degree where you could work in tech industries for more money sometimes than veterinary medicine after getting experience in those tech fields. I cannot see how anyone in veterinary academia believes spending longer time in education and training than a physician is going to be worthwhile to the individual veterinarian not in academia.

I must also say that the DVM-PhD is definitely no guarantee to a great job as I know of three of them now in meat inspection with USDA-FSIS who were in my same training class. One I spent time with at a poultry slaughter plant has a PhD in microbiology, board certified in veterinary microbiology and worked in research in most of her career from the early 1980s the last years as an associate professor in a human medical school. She said the focus of the research changed and so she joined FSIS to look at chickens and manage food inspectors overnight (ie make sure they come to work and do their job). Her sister in law is an MD who does research in neurological disease and travels around the world with just an MD, no PhD There were also two other vets in our training group who were boarded in lab animal medicine and neurology(which flabbergasted me and my wife, a former DVM). So really how great is it spending all that time getting more and more letters behind the name when it might not even carry you through a full career in research or whatever else those letters prepared you to do.

What really is sad is the lack of common sense of these academic leaders to change the system to improve the chances for success for DVMs. In the poultry industry from what I have read, there is a need for poultry veterinarians (which there are not enough residency slots) who can make a very good living as well as MS/PhDs in poultry science to help bring in depth expertise to raising poultry on less antibiotics. preventing disease in birds and people who eat them as well as becoming more efficient in producing protein for the world. I always thought animal health in the agriculture sector should be the one area where the DVM should be supreme but the schools tend to pay lip service to that idea anymore. And I only see it is going to get harder for current and future DVMs to get anywhere, be successful and be relevant.
 
In the poultry industry from what I have read, there is a need for poultry veterinarians (which there are not enough residency slots) who can make a very good living as well as MS/PhDs in poultry science to help bring in depth expertise to raising poultry on less antibiotics. preventing disease in birds and people who eat them as well as becoming more efficient in producing protein for the world.
Oh hi! I’m actually a Poultry Science grad students so I can confirm that there is a need for poultry vets. Most of the foreign grad students do have DVMs and my school has a good program for DVMs wanting to specialize in Poultry Med. There are definitely several projects looking at antibodics alternatives aiming to reduce salmonella, campylobacter, clostridium, and coccidiosis
 
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Oh hi! I’m actually a Poutry Science grad students so I can confirm that there is a need for poutry vets. Most of the foreign grad students do have DVMs and my school has a good program for DVMs wanting to specialize in Poutry Med. There are definitely several projects looking at antibodics alternatives aiming to reduce salmonella, campylobacter, clostridium, and coccidiosis
You've forgotten quite a few "L"s here...
 
Oh hi! I’m actually a Poultry Science grad students so I can confirm that there is a need for poultry vets. Most of the foreign grad students do have DVMs and my school has a good program for DVMs wanting to specialize in Poultry Med. There are definitely several projects looking at antibodics alternatives aiming to reduce salmonella, campylobacter, clostridium, and coccidiosis
One one of these sites(Zoeis sponsored) they interviewed Dr Jackwood from the Poultry Disease Research Center in Athens who said tha they could train more poultry vets if they had more money for more slots and he also said in a sly way that the regular DVM curriculum does not teach enough poultry medicine and husbandry for vets to get jobs in the industry. It reinforces the truth that the DVM curriculum is just spread to thin among too many subjects and species today and that they are relying on post DVM education and training too much instead of specializing during school and providing the needed training for a particular sector rather than relying on DVMs essentially choosing after graduation and often trying to find "mentorship" at best or training yourself. I doubt any poultry company would look at a DVM without a poultry residency and board certification today and the American College of Poultry Veterinarians bylaws are slanted toward an academic program.
 
I’m very impatient waiting on the application review. Deadline was yesterday so it’s just a waiting game.

On the bright side I applied to graduate. Now to finish up that thesis
 
However...... at the end of the day.....you are an indentured servant who has very little say, and they will absolutely sugar-coat things and tell white lies to get you to do what they want and stay a happy little student (e.g. ok you'll graduate this semester! ok, well, you'll graduate maybe next semester when this project is done...ok, definitely next semester when this project is done....etc) You are there to make them look good. You are there to do work that can get them grants, to get them papers, to increase their prestige and enhance their tenure applications. They will dangle carrots all over the place and very rarely will you actually get one. Learn how to say no, learn how to question them, and take care of yourself first. Never take everything they say for granted. There is always another angle at play.
Wonder if the battle scars, cynicism, and loss of naivete from some experience in industry could help navigate the politics in a graduate program vs. the traditional route of undergrad-->grad in one's early 20s. Being able to "manage up," being more assertive with setting boundaries, and not falling for the carrot-dangling and stringing along just to continue one's role as cheap labor. Being able to say "No, my plate is not only full, but it's overflowing. Delegate this scutwork to another resource." It's bull**** to be artificially held back. Should be: Complete contractually-written requirements, successfully finish project, complete and defend dissertation, GTFO.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there's enough sideways mobility for PhD students to transfer to entirely different schools if things aren't working out well. In industry, it's like "You're stringing me along and being a dick? FU, thanks for the 1-2 years here, but I'm off to Company B who will pay me more and let me progress in my career." I don't see graduate students having that amount of political leverage, since it seems more like a "PI's market," who won't hesitate to capitalize on the high friction involved in a student jumping ship to another PI in the same school let alone transferring to an entirely different school without having to start from scratch.
 
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Wonder if the battle scars, cynicism, and loss of naivete from some experience in industry could help navigate the politics in a graduate program vs. the traditional route of undergrad-->grad in one's early 20s. Being able to "manage up," being more assertive with setting boundaries, and not falling for the carrot-dangling and stringing along just to continue one's role as cheap labor. Being able to say "No, my plate is not only full, but it's overflowing. Delegate this scutwork to another resource." It's bull**** to be artificially held back. Should be: Complete contractually-written requirements, successfully finish project, complete and defend dissertation, GTFO.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there's enough sideways mobility for PhD students to transfer to entirely different schools if things aren't working out well. In industry, it's like "You're stringing me along and being a dick? FU, thanks for the 1-2 years here, but I'm off to Company B who will pay me more and let me progress in my career." I don't see graduate students having that amount of political leverage, since it seems more like a "PI's market," who won't hesitate to capitalize on the high friction involved in a student jumping ship to another PI in the same school let alone transferring to an entirely different school without having to start from scratch.
I can't tell you how much I miss working in industry. Hoping to end up back there post-residency. It's a completely different environment than academia.
 
Wonder if the battle scars, cynicism, and loss of naivete from some experience in industry could help navigate the politics in a graduate program vs. the traditional route of undergrad-->grad in one's early 20s. Being able to "manage up," being more assertive with setting boundaries, and not falling for the carrot-dangling and stringing along just to continue one's role as cheap labor. Being able to say "No, my plate is not only full, but it's overflowing. Delegate this scutwork to another resource." It's bull**** to be artificially held back. Should be: Complete contractually-written requirements, successfully finish project, complete and defend dissertation, GTFO.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there's enough sideways mobility for PhD students to transfer to entirely different schools if things aren't working out well. In industry, it's like "You're stringing me along and being a dick? FU, thanks for the 1-2 years here, but I'm off to Company B who will pay me more and let me progress in my career." I don't see graduate students having that amount of political leverage, since it seems more like a "PI's market," who won't hesitate to capitalize on the high friction involved in a student jumping ship to another PI in the same school let alone transferring to an entirely different school without having to start from scratch.

Grad students have essentially zero leverage unless it is a case of downright toxicity or abuse from a PI (and sometimes not even then). If you don't want to take the ****, there are hundreds behind you who will. Especially hundreds of foreign graduates who will work far longer than you, harder than you, and for less money that you because of they are away from their families and have no other choice than success or else back home they go.

However, yes, you are absolutely right in that part of this problem is you have naive 22 year olds coming into graduate school who don't know how to do anything except roll over when treated poorly. How could they? Most have no experience negotiating and have never dreamed of standing up to their superiors.
 
I was at a conference all last week. I had won a travel grant to attend, and because of that I was also invited to give a presentation in one of the workshops. The poster sessions were the day after my presentation. I had a few people stop by my poster and give me nice, encouraging comments. All of the questions they asked were things I could confidently answer, and I was having a lot of fun talking to everyone who came by. Then this lady comes up. She starts asking questions about the statistics behind our analyses, and I answered to the extent of my knowledge. She kept probing and asking more detailed questions that I knew were out of my depth - I had never even heard of the terms she was throwing out, and I was honest about not being able to answer those questions. She then said something along the lines of "you should not have given a presentation because obviously you know nothing about this research" and walked away.

:bag::barf:

Once the poster session was over I looked up some of the things she'd been asking about, and it turns out this lady was full of ****. I'd assumed she was a PI and I was a little shaken by the whole encounter. Nope, she's actually a grad student, and her work is really similar to mine, except our study found more significant results than hers did. I'm assuming she applied to the same travel grant that I won and was pissed that a first year student was chosen over her. Apparently I have an arch enemy now. :shrug:
 
I was at a conference all last week. I had won a travel grant to attend, and because of that I was also invited to give a presentation in one of the workshops. The poster sessions were the day after my presentation. I had a few people stop by my poster and give me nice, encouraging comments. All of the questions they asked were things I could confidently answer, and I was having a lot of fun talking to everyone who came by. Then this lady comes up. She starts asking questions about the statistics behind our analyses, and I answered to the extent of my knowledge. She kept probing and asking more detailed questions that I knew were out of my depth - I had never even heard of the terms she was throwing out, and I was honest about not being able to answer those questions. She then said something along the lines of "you should not have given a presentation because obviously you know nothing about this research" and walked away.

:bag::barf:

Once the poster session was over I looked up some of the things she'd been asking about, and it turns out this lady was full of ****. I'd assumed she was a PI and I was a little shaken by the whole encounter. Nope, she's actually a grad student, and her work is really similar to mine, except our study found more significant results than hers did. I'm assuming she applied to the same travel grant that I won and was pissed that a first year student was chosen over her. Apparently I have an arch enemy now. :shrug:
Having an archnemesis means you’re doing something right. Good job on your presentation!!!!!!
 
I was at a conference all last week. I had won a travel grant to attend, and because of that I was also invited to give a presentation in one of the workshops. The poster sessions were the day after my presentation. I had a few people stop by my poster and give me nice, encouraging comments. All of the questions they asked were things I could confidently answer, and I was having a lot of fun talking to everyone who came by. Then this lady comes up. She starts asking questions about the statistics behind our analyses, and I answered to the extent of my knowledge. She kept probing and asking more detailed questions that I knew were out of my depth - I had never even heard of the terms she was throwing out, and I was honest about not being able to answer those questions. She then said something along the lines of "you should not have given a presentation because obviously you know nothing about this research" and walked away.

:bag::barf:

Once the poster session was over I looked up some of the things she'd been asking about, and it turns out this lady was full of ****. I'd assumed she was a PI and I was a little shaken by the whole encounter. Nope, she's actually a grad student, and her work is really similar to mine, except our study found more significant results than hers did. I'm assuming she applied to the same travel grant that I won and was pissed that a first year student was chosen over her. Apparently I have an arch enemy now. :shrug:
welcome to research. My old PI has the same problem as they (her arch nemesis) both work in the same subject matter and when we as her grad students would go to a conference, she would question all our results and poo poo our methods. lol
 
We were out of town at a conference over the first week of school and I'm not bouncing back. We've been home a week and a half now and I'm behind on everything - research stuff, class stuff. I took on a cell culture project last fall and it was great before we needed to produce a greater volume of cells. Growing flasks in bulk has controlled my life for the past seven days. I had a 14 hr day yesterday and it's so frustrating that we can't confirm that this protocol is working until we actually send our samples off for analysis - and there can be errors on their end, too. It's been a busy few weeks and there's no break in sight. :dead:
 
We were out of town at a conference over the first week of school and I'm not bouncing back. We've been home a week and a half now and I'm behind on everything - research stuff, class stuff. I took on a cell culture project last fall and it was great before we needed to produce a greater volume of cells. Growing flasks in bulk has controlled my life for the past seven days. I had a 14 hr day yesterday and it's so frustrating that we can't confirm that this protocol is working until we actually send our samples off for analysis - and there can be errors on their end, too. It's been a busy few weeks and there's no break in sight. :dead:
I'm sorry peebs, hope it gets better and less busy
 
Over the last year and a half I have learned the art of saying "No, I'm not interested in that" to my PI when he comes up with ideas for things that he wants me to do that I don't see the value in. I still do some things for other people, if it looks like something I can learn from, but my own research comes first and I re-iterate that in no uncertain terms whenever I feel overwhelmed by requests to do menial things for other people's research. It has changed my life. I'm lucky that I have that opportunity. Just a musing.

edit: To be frank, part of the reason that I have the opportunity is that I only have limited and set timeframes when I'm actually in the lab, because the agreement that we made when we signed me up for this combined residency/Ph.D. is that research time is protected from clinical obligations, and clinical time is protected from research obligations. So if my PI knows that I will be going back on clinics in 5 weeks and won't be back in the lab until August, he knows that I have to be allowed to get done what I need to get done in that timeframe and so it needs to come first.
 
Grad school only? Meh. If I had wanted a research career, I would have had 4-6 years of post-doc work after my PhD anyway, so it wouldn't have likely been that much faster.

This caught my eye. My PI shared a posting today for a 2-year post-doc position. I know some people do two post-docs, but is 4-6 years really the norm? That's just longer than I was expecting. Oof.

We were out of town at a conference over the first week of school and I'm not bouncing back. We've been home a week and a half now and I'm behind on everything - research stuff, class stuff. I took on a cell culture project last fall and it was great before we needed to produce a greater volume of cells. Growing flasks in bulk has controlled my life for the past seven days. I had a 14 hr day yesterday and it's so frustrating that we can't confirm that this protocol is working until we actually send our samples off for analysis - and there can be errors on their end, too. It's been a busy few weeks and there's no break in sight. :dead:

This post feels like so much longer than three weeks ago. :laugh: I'm feeling a lot less overwhelmed now. I'm currently passing advanced phys (our first exam was pretty rough, so there was some doubt for a bit there). One of the big projects I've had hanging over me is almost off and submitted and that feels so great. Still no break in sight, but I don't feel like I need one as badly anymore.

If I could keep this optimism until May - please and thank you?
 
This caught my eye. My PI shared a posting today for a 2-year post-doc position. I know some people do two post-docs, but is 4-6 years really the norm? That's just longer than I was expecting. Oof.



This post feels like so much longer than three weeks ago. :laugh: I'm feeling a lot less overwhelmed now. I'm currently passing advanced phys (our first exam was pretty rough, so there was some doubt for a bit there). One of the big projects I've had hanging over me is almost off and submitted and that feels so great. Still no break in sight, but I don't feel like I need one as badly anymore.

If I could keep this optimism until May - please and thank you?

Yeah, it's a lot. And there doesn't seem to be much consistency. One of my committee members is a DVM/PhD who was hired as tenure track faculty without doing a post-doc. I also worked for a prof during my undergrad that didn't do a post-doc. But on the other side there are people who seem to be forever post-docs who have been doing that for 6-8+ years.
 
Yeah, it's a lot. And there doesn't seem to be much consistency. One of my committee members is a DVM/PhD who was hired as tenure track faculty without doing a post-doc. I also worked for a prof during my undergrad that didn't do a post-doc. But on the other side there are people who seem to be forever post-docs who have been doing that for 6-8+ years.

I think it depends a lot on your subject area. Basic science? Yeah, more likely than not you need a postdoc or two. Clinical science? Not so much.
 
I find it kind of entertaining how I seem to be a novelty in one of my courses - we have to introduce ourselves to whomever is lecturing each week and my being a DVM/PhD student always seems to intrigue them (a vet student? Interesting!).
 
I find it kind of entertaining how I seem to be a novelty in one of my courses - we have to introduce ourselves to whomever is lecturing each week and my being a DVM/PhD student always seems to intrigue them (a vet student? Interesting!).

I felt kinda bad when graduate students took some of the DVM courses. Having to walk in randomly for one class for 100 people to be like who tf is that
 
I felt kinda bad when graduate students took some of the DVM courses. Having to walk in randomly for one class for 100 people to be like who tf is that
I was almost one of them
 
I felt kinda bad when graduate students took some of the DVM courses. Having to walk in randomly for one class for 100 people to be like who tf is that
Omg yes, and it was super awkward when the poor unsuspecting grad student took a seat in the lecture hall, and some mean vet student would be all like, "excuse me, but that's MY seat" and kick them out so that they'd have to wander to some corner of the lecture hall where it might be safe to sit
 
Omg yes, and it was super awkward when the poor unsuspecting grad student took a seat in the lecture hall, and some mean vet student would be all like, "excuse me, but that's MY seat" and kick them out so that they'd have to wander to some corner of the lecture hall where it might be safe to sit

Which is so ridiculous. I hate how vet students think they own their "class" room. The graduate school here had a distinguished speaker come once during an afternoon when the students were downstairs in lab. They left all their **** everywhere around the room, rather than take it down to the cubbies. Like it was their personal lounge and storage area, not a room in a university owned building that is used for other purposes than their classes. We booked the room online, etc. of course, right in the middle of the talk, we had students waltzing in and out of the room, grabbing and packing up their stuff, letting doors slam, etc. it was the rudest thing I have ever seen. This happened on multiple occasions and the entitlement to a room (which is available for use by the entire college and doesn't belong to anyone) was astounding.
 
Hmm. Our rooms kind of are more...ours I guess. I mean, we're in there all day almost every day. It's comforting, for me at least, to have my space and make it my own. The first year classroom gets used for other things sometimes but I guess our 2nd and 3rd year classrooms are in inconvenient enough locations that they don't really get used for anything else very often. And if they are going to be, administration typically lets us know so we can move our stuff out.
 
Which is so ridiculous. I hate how vet students think they own their "class" room. The graduate school here had a distinguished speaker come once during an afternoon when the students were downstairs in lab. They left all their **** everywhere around the room, rather than take it down to the cubbies. Like it was their personal lounge and storage area, not a room in a university owned building that is used for other purposes than their classes. We booked the room online, etc. of course, right in the middle of the talk, we had students waltzing in and out of the room, grabbing and packing up their stuff, letting doors slam, etc. it was the rudest thing I have ever seen. This happened on multiple occasions and the entitlement to a room (which is available for use by the entire college and doesn't belong to anyone) was astounding.
Yeah... unfortunately vet students aren't known for their ability to function as adults.

Though if the students usually are allowed to leave their **** there for the day, the admin could have announced in the morning or before lunch that the room was going to be used and therefore everyone needed to get their **** out and not disturb the lecture hall. But geez, how embarrassing for the distinguished speaker to speak in that environment.
 
Hmm. Our rooms kind of are more...ours I guess. I mean, we're in there all day almost every day. It's comforting, for me at least, to have my space and make it my own. The first year classroom gets used for other things sometimes but I guess our 2nd and 3rd year classrooms are in inconvenient enough locations that they don't really get used for anything else very often. And if they are going to be, administration typically lets us know so we can move our stuff out.

See that's the thing - the students are there most of the time. 8-12 and sometimes afternoon, but more often downstairs or OC labs in afternoon usually. B ut the rooms are routinely booked for other things - MS and PhD defenses, visiting speakers, club meetings, etc. If such behavior had happened during a PhD defense, I can only imagine how that would have thrown off the presenter, and reflected badly on the school in the mind of the external examiners, who typically travel from other institutions. I would have been livid, myself - I defended in a vet school classroom that I booked, and there was stuff everywhere, but thank goodness only 1 or 2 people snuck in to grab stuff (the downstairs cubbies are there for a reason, students just don't use them out of laziness or IDK.

The administration has let the students know about this behavior multiple times. IMO, just because you (the generic you, not you in particular WZ) use the room most of the time does not make it yours - it is a public, university-owned room that can be used for anything, and it should be treated as such. Would you leave your belongings all over your chemistry lecture hall in undergrad just because you're a chemistry major and spend a lot of time there? No. Same principle.

Yeah... unfortunately vet students aren't known for their ability to function as adults.

Though if the students usually are allowed to leave their **** there for the day, the admin could have announced in the morning or before lunch that the room was going to be used and therefore everyone needed to get their **** out and not disturb the lecture hall. But geez, how embarrassing for the distinguished speaker to speak in that environment.

The online schedule for the room is always available, as well as on a touchscreen digital thing near the room entrance, and posters were all over the place for the speaker. Emails aren't generally sent out for everything (announcement emails with event, time, and place are, but no specific instructions to move your stuff) because booking the rooms for other things is not that uncommon, although I suppose it would have helped. I guess I just feel like that type of email (hey, move your **** out of the classroom) shouldn't need to be sent, because people should respect the shared space. Now that I've been on both sides - vet student and graduate student - I'm much more sensitive to the whole "forgotten graduate school" aspect of veterinary colleges. Grad students have even had vet students come up to them and get all pissy like "Um who are you, are you supposed to be here? This is our area " when they use common study spaces as well.
 
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See that's the thing - the students are there most of the time. 8-12 and sometimes afternoon, but more often downstairs or OC labs in afternoon usually. B ut the rooms are routinely booked for other things - MS and PhD defenses, visiting speakers, club meetings, etc. If such behavior had happened during a PhD defense, I can only imagine how that would have thrown off the presenter. I would have been livid, myself - I defended in a vet school classroom that I booked, and there was stuff everywhere, but thank goodness only 1 or 2 people snuck in to grab stuff (the downstairs cubbies are there for a reason, students just don't use them out of laziness or IDK.

The administration has let the students know about this behavior multiple times. IMO, just because you (the generic you, not you in particular WZ) use the room most of the time does not make it yours - it is a public, university-owned room that can be used for anything, and it should be treated as such. Would you leave your belongings all over your chemistry lecture hall in undergrad just because you're a chemistry major and spend a lot of time there? No. Same principle.



The online schedule for the room is always available, as well as on a touchscreen digital thing near the room entrance, and posters were all over the place for the speaker. Emails aren't generally sent out for everything (announcement emails with event, time, and place are, but no specific instructions to move your stuff) because booking the rooms for other things is not that uncommon, although I suppose it would have helped. I guess I just feel like that type of email (hey, move your **** out of the classroom) shouldn't need to be sent, because people should respect the shared space. Now that I've been on both sides - vet student and graduate student - I'm much more sensitive to the whole "forgotten graduate school" aspect of veterinary colleges. Grad students have had vet kids come up to them and get all pissy like "Um who are you, are you supposed to be here? This is our area " when they use common study spaces as well.
Absolutely interrupting is not ok, and we have had people do that during elective meetings and stuff and it's annoying because you can look in the window of the door and see there is someone speaking.

I'm just saying if people always keep their stuff in there and are allowed to do so, then a heads up that "hey there's going to be a big thing going on so make sure to move your stuff" doesn't seem unreasonable. If the room schedule is posted somewhere easily visible then yeah, people should have the common sense to bring the stuff they need with them so they don't have to interrupt to get it.

But I don't really know the environment at other schools. We're encouraged to make our classrooms our own, they are even referred to as such (1st year classroom, 2nd year classroom, 3rd year classroom), so even if they are used for other things we are always told if it's going to be during an unusual time (not during lunch or after classes are done for the day) or a larger part of the day.

I guess I just don't think of it as an undergrad class. I never spent all day every day in the same room in undergrad. In 2nd year when we had our larger room, the desks were like our office spaces. We also have lockers (somewhere...) but nobody uses them because there isn't much point in putting the blanket I keep in class in a locker every day if most of the time no one else is using the room except for the occasional lunchtime club meeting. I guess it's different if the rooms are more frequently used for other, more fancy things.

That last part is ridiculous though. Our library is shared with the entire Ag school even though it's in the vet school building, so grad students and undergrads and everybody uses it. I only get annoyed when undergrads take up our parking spaces 😛
 
Absolutely interrupting is not ok, and we have had people do that during elective meetings and stuff and it's annoying because you can look in the window of the door and see there is someone speaking.

I'm just saying if people always keep their stuff in there and are allowed to do so, then a heads up that "hey there's going to be a big thing going on so make sure to move your stuff" doesn't seem unreasonable. If the room schedule is posted somewhere easily visible then yeah, people should have the common sense to bring the stuff they need with them so they don't have to interrupt to get it.

But I don't really know the environment at other schools. We're encouraged to make our classrooms our own, they are even referred to as such (1st year classroom, 2nd year classroom, 3rd year classroom), so even if they are used for other things we are always told if it's going to be during an unusual time (not during lunch or after classes are done for the day) or a larger part of the day.

I guess I just don't think of it as an undergrad class. I never spent all day every day in the same room in undergrad. In 2nd year when we had our larger room, the desks were like our office spaces. We also have lockers (somewhere...) but nobody uses them because there isn't much point in putting the blanket I keep in class in a locker every day if most of the time no one else is using the room except for the occasional lunchtime club meeting. I guess it's different if the rooms are more frequently used for other, more fancy things.

That last part is ridiculous though. Our library is shared with the entire Ag school even though it's in the vet school building, so grad students and undergrads and everybody uses it. I only get annoyed when undergrads take up our parking spaces 😛

I think there's some merits to either argument and largely depending on the situation. I think you can reserve the lecture halls here for use, but besides vet student classes and club meetings in the evenings I've never seen them used for much else. The lecture halls here are also now kept locked with access restricted to whoever they give it to (not sure if all vet students or just that class year and relevant faculty?) - never tried but I'm assuming my badge wouldn't let me in. Not so much overnight, but people would definitely leave stuff in there during the day during lunch, labs, etc. And the locked lecture hall doors are new, that wasn't a thing when I was a vet student.
 
That's so weird. With how prevalent on-campus theft is -- an every day occurrence -- I wouldn't leave my stuff unattended anywhere. The liability and replacement cost and loss of all my notes and supplies would be a massive hit. Criminy, even a laptop and/or tablet nowadays.

Yeah... unfortunately vet students aren't known for their ability to function as adults.
Welp! That sucks.

vets

*leaves forum*
 
I felt kinda bad when graduate students took some of the DVM courses. Having to walk in randomly for one class for 100 people to be like who tf is that

I took one DVM course prior to vet school during my Masters degree (the veterinary genetics course, naturally) and I was literally introduced by the professor in front of the entire class of 2013. It was a bit awkward and I had no idea what to do/where to sit but luckily the class of 2013 was great and it wasn't too bad after the first day.
 
That's so weird. With how prevalent on-campus theft is -- an every day occurrence -- I wouldn't leave my stuff unattended anywhere. The liability and replacement cost and loss of all my notes and supplies would be a massive hit. Criminy, even a laptop and/or tablet nowadays.


Welp! That sucks.

vets

*leaves forum*
As far as I know there has never been anything stolen from our classrooms during the day HOWEVER we did have a bunch of blankets stolen over a long weekend, which was just...weird as ****.
 
Hello, I have spent the last five months (nearly six) trying to get this protocol working and I'd really love to get some results eventually. At this point I've lost some of my "we'll figure it out eventually!" and moved into "if this doesn't work soon I'm selling my soul to the nearest devil just to be done with this project." The lab took this on about a year ago, and apparently a previous student had had SOME success with it, so that's fun. It's a collaborative thing and the next step can't happen until we get this working, so yeah, no big deal, just a ton of people waiting on me . . .

Oh but hey, finals are almost here and I can be done with physiology!
 
Hello, I have spent the last five months (nearly six) trying to get this protocol working and I'd really love to get some results eventually. At this point I've lost some of my "we'll figure it out eventually!" and moved into "if this doesn't work soon I'm selling my soul to the nearest devil just to be done with this project." The lab took this on about a year ago, and apparently a previous student had had SOME success with it, so that's fun. It's a collaborative thing and the next step can't happen until we get this working, so yeah, no big deal, just a ton of people waiting on me . . .

Oh but hey, finals are almost here and I can be done with physiology!

What is it that you are currently working on? (If you are able to say)
 
Me: Can I take the lead on this super important paper? I know I'll be in clinics but I should have time for it

PI: yes, and we want to submit for publication by August

Me: oh ****
 
Me: Can I take the lead on this super important paper? I know I'll be in clinics but I should have time for it

PI: yes, and we want to submit for publication by August

Me: oh ****
Good luck! You're crazy Dubz 😉
 
Good luck! You're crazy Dubz 😉
Someone else in the lab emailed me to ask if they could start working on the methods section, but wanted to make sure they weren't stepping on any toes, and I was like "YES GOD PLEASE I HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED THE THING, H E L P"

Suuuuuper important topic though. Like a BIG DEAL, PI thinks it has the potential to be published in Science. I am scare.
 
Someone else in the lab emailed me to ask if they could start working on the methods section, but wanted to make sure they weren't stepping on any toes, and I was like "YES GOD PLEASE I HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED THE THING, H E L P"

Suuuuuper important topic though. Like a BIG DEAL, PI thinks it has the potential to be published in Science. I am scare.
That's awesome! We got reviewer's notes back on my short communications this week and they want major revisions. I don't think it'll be too difficult to make the changes they suggest (knock on wood) but this publishing thing is hard. And this is a short communication paper in a low impact journal. :dead:
 
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