The Grad School Thread

[Balesofhay]

Physiology is over! I'm just shooting for a passing grade (B), which is how quickly my dreams for a 4.0 grad school career deteriorated. I made it one semester.

I’m done with classes for forever! Now all I need to do is finish writing. 30 some odd pages down who knows how many to go

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[cheathac]

Hey grad school peeps! I had some questions and wanted your guys' advice. I just finished my second year of veterinary school and am super into lab animal medicine and research itself and have just recently becoming more and more interested in the research part of things. My advisor at school mentioned how research minded I am. I do find myslef asking more about the research itself when doing rounds and I find reading experimental design to be extremely fascinating when looking over protocols. I also have a love for pathology after going through it in second year. I managed to do better on my systemic path final than my clinical skills final My advisor mentioned to me about looking into T32 NIH grants at certain schools that are more comparative base that combine path and lab animal. I almost found it to be a perfect match to do a year or so of lab animal clinical work before starting research to get a PhD (so ultimately a combined residency/PhD). Some programs I'm looking into externing at for this are Wake Forrest, Tulane, and Mizzou. I'm into primates as well. My only concern is that I'm not sure I want to head up my own lab and spend the majority of my life writing grants and such. I'm not closing it off all together I just know that at this point in time I'm not 100% sure I'd want to do that. I would also want some clinical component as part of my career along with doing research projects (maybe be part of a lab just not the sole head of it if that makes sense). Would going the PhD route be futile? I still have some time to decide but I'm going to start contacting places to extern at towards the end of the summer. I will also be externing at clinical programs so I get a bit of both to decide what I want to do. Any advice or thoughts is much appreciated.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Hey grad school peeps! I had some questions and wanted your guys' advice. I just finished my second year of veterinary school and am super into lab animal medicine and research itself and have just recently becoming more and more interested in the research part of things. My advisor at school mentioned how research minded I am. I do find myslef asking more about the research itself when doing rounds and I find reading experimental design to be extremely fascinating when looking over protocols. I also have a love for pathology after going through it in second year. I managed to do better on my systemic path final than my clinical skills final My advisor mentioned to me about looking into T32 NIH grants at certain schools that are more comparative base that combine path and lab animal. I almost found it to be a perfect match to do a year or so of lab animal clinical work before starting research to get a PhD (so ultimately a combined residency/PhD). Some programs I'm looking into externing at for this are Wake Forrest, Tulane, and Mizzou. I'm into primates as well. My only concern is that I'm not sure I want to head up my own lab and spend the majority of my life writing grants and such. I'm not closing it off all together I just know that at this point in time I'm not 100% sure I'd want to do that. I would also want some clinical component as part of my career along with doing research projects (maybe be part of a lab just not the sole head of it if that makes sense). Would going the PhD route be futile? I still have some time to decide but I'm going to start contacting places to extern at towards the end of the summer. I will also be externing at clinical programs so I get a bit of both to decide what I want to do. Any advice or thoughts is much appreciated.

My first question is what your current research experience looks like. Have you spent much time in a lab or have you done much bench work? I think it's one thing to read papers and be interested in research, and another thing to be the one at the bench actually getting your hands dirty. I had a lot of TA lab experience but pretty minimal research experience before starting - I'd done a summer internship with a forestry lab and shadowed/volunteered in a virology lab. I thought I loved bench work. I've been in my program for 9 months now and I'm way more interested in the bioinformatics we do than anything else. Point being, you might surprise yourself by what you like/dislike about research, and that might change your career goals.

As far as being a PhD without being a PI - it sounds like maybe the job you're envisioning is a dual research/diagnostic appointment? Although the anatomic pathologists I know who do research and teaching/diagnostics are either the PI of their lab or joint collaborators with other researchers and share grant writing/etc responsibilities. I definitely don't know much about that world. Paging @kcoughli, @WhtsThFrequency, @JaynaAli for better career ideas and advice.

 

[cheathac]

My first question is what your current research experience looks like. Have you spent much time in a lab or have you done much bench work? I think it's one thing to read papers and be interested in research, and another thing to be the one at the bench actually getting your hands dirty. I had a lot of TA lab experience but pretty minimal research experience before starting - I'd done a summer internship with a forestry lab and shadowed/volunteered in a virology lab. I thought I loved bench work. I've been in my program for 9 months now and I'm way more interested in the bioinformatics we do than anything else. Point being, you might surprise yourself by what you like/dislike about research, and that might change your career goals.

As far as being a PhD without being a PI - it sounds like maybe the job you're envisioning is a dual research/diagnostic appointment? Although the anatomic pathologists I know who do research and teaching/diagnostics are either the PI of their lab or joint collaborators with other researchers and share grant writing/etc responsibilities. I definitely don't know much about that world. Paging @kcoughli, @WhtsThFrequency, @JaynaAli for better career ideas and advice.

Thanks! In undergrad I did some projects with studying neurotoxin paralysis in female mice, adnoviral vectors for influenza virus in mice, and studied canine gaits after amputation surgeries. I did some work with a biotech company mainly doing cardiovascular stent research in pigs (loved that). Last summer I did the Boehringer Ingelheim veterinary scholars program studying changes in the blood-brain barrier rat model after a sonic blast (mimicking IED bombs soliders are exposed to). This summer I'm doing small projects on harvesting spleens in mice looking at C. bovis, a small autoclave study, as well as some primate behavior at a contract research company. I wouldn't say I'm in love with benchtop research but have done it enough to like it more than some aspects of clinical work. I would be more interested in clinical translational type studies vs bench top though I would have to say.

 

[Lupin21]

Thanks! In undergrad I did some projects with studying neurotoxin paralysis in female mice, adnoviral vectors for influenza virus in mice, and studied canine gaits after amputation surgeries. I did some work with a biotech company mainly doing cardiovascular stent research in pigs (loved that). Last summer I did the Boehringer Ingelheim veterinary scholars program studying changes in the blood-brain barrier rat model after a sonic blast (mimicking IED bombs soliders are exposed to). This summer I'm doing small projects on harvesting spleens in mice looking at C. bovis, a small autoclave study, as well as some primate behavior at a contract research company. I wouldn't say I'm in love with benchtop research but have done it enough to like it more than some aspects of clinical work. I would be more interested in clinical translational type studies vs bench top though I would have to say.

What you need to figure out is if you like scientific and grant writing. There is no way around that being a major part of PhD work, both during and after. It will always boil down to needing money for the research.

 

[JaynaAli]

I appreciate the tag, but I don't have a ton to offer advice wise. I've always been more of a clinical-track minded person focused on diagnostics/teaching and am not a fan of basic science research. I did spend some time in vet school with two clinical pathologists at a contract research organization...I can't really give insight into how that would be for an anatomic pathologist but maybe that would be a good way to meld the research+path? It seemed like pathologists in industry do a lot of glass-pushing broken up by meetings with researchers about effects of their studies with maybe a little input on the study design phase, but just a thought of something to maybe look into? Being the pathologist in that situation means you don't have to write grants. My visit to the CRO was enlightening....mostly by confirming that it is not for me, but that is still valuable information.

 

[cheathac]

What you need to figure out is if you like scientific and grant writing. There is no way around that being a major part of PhD work, both during and after. It will always boil down to needing money for the research.

How can I find that out? I actually have always liked writing and haven't minded it. I've written a few essays in veterinary school (one on using primates in research and Chinese veterinary medicine) and what I've found is that if I'm passionate about what I'm writing about then writing comes easily. I feel like I could writing grants if I was taught how to do it. I could start writing a few grants for my clubs and see how that goes?

 

[Lupin21]

How can I find that out? I actually have always liked writing and haven't minded it. I've written a few essays in veterinary school (one on using primates in research and Chinese veterinary medicine) and what I've found is that if I'm passionate about what I'm writing about then writing comes easily. I feel like I could writing grants if I was taught how to do it. I could start writing a few grants for my clubs and see how that goes?

Are you participating in summer research program? The only real way to find out is to design an experiment, run it and collect data, analyze it, then write your abstract short term. As far as writing for paper submission and grant writing, I would first find a lab that meets some of your interests and see if they would let you in on the process. Make friends with a PhD student and shadow them. They can give you the skinny. Always seek out the grad students in a lab anyway before making a commitment as they will be able to tell the you true story of what it's like working in a lab and being the low man on the totem pole.

 

[cheathac]

Are you participating in summer research program? The only real way to find out is to design an experiment, run it and collect data, analyze it, then write your abstract short term. As far as writing for paper submission and grant writing, I would first find a lab that meets some of your interests and see if they would let you in on the process. Make friends with a PhD student and shadow them. They can give you the skinny. Always seek out the grad students in a lab anyway before making a commitment as they will be able to tell the you true story of what it's like working in a lab and being the low man on the totem pole.

Thanks Lupin, this is great advice! I participated in a heavy summer research program last summer and did just what you described. I find myself really liking it if I understand all what's going on if that makes sense. I didn't have this much of an awe in undergrad because I feel like I didn't have that knowledge base to really understand the science and why things happened like they did. I used the abstract to present at ACVP and just submitted it again to possibly present at ALAAS. I can try and shadow a bit in a lab at Covance this summer and see. Still have plenty of time to decide, but I need to start contacting people for summer externships next summer and need to see if I'm interested in doing a combined PhD because that would then determine where I externed at. Still planning on externing at more clinical places too just to see how they're designed.

 

[Lupin21]

Thanks Lupin, this is great advice! I participated in a heavy summer research program last summer and did just what you described. I find myself really liking it if I understand all what's going on if that makes sense. I didn't have this much of an awe in undergrad because I feel like I didn't have that knowledge base to really understand the science and why things happened like they did. I used the abstract to present at ACVP and just submitted it again to possibly present at ALAAS. I can try and shadow a bit in a lab at Covance this summer and see. Still have plenty of time to decide, but I need to start contacting people for summer externships next summer and need to see if I'm interested in doing a combined PhD because that would then determine where I externed at. Still planning on externing at more clinical places too just to see how they're designed.

Coo. I would definitely just keep finding a way to get experience in all the various areas you have an interest in for now, and as you get to fourth year, really hone in on what each path entails. I imagine you have already, but read all the posts WTF et all have offered in this thread about PhD. Eyes wide open and such. Things are generally rosy as people try to get you into research, but it rarely stays that way once you're trapped... er on board. heh

 

[Frozenshades]

Coo. I would definitely just keep finding a way to get experience in all the various areas you have an interest in for now, and as you get to fourth year, really hone in on what each path entails. I imagine you have already, but read all the posts WTF et all have offered in this thread about PhD. Eyes wide open and such. Things are generally rosy as people try to get you into research, but it rarely stays that way once you're trapped... er on board. heh

In the higher education system, unaccomplished researchers are considered especially heinous. In graduate school, the dedicated advisers who train these nitwits are members of an elite squad known as the graduate school faculty. These are their stories.

DUN DUN

"The charge, your honor?"

"Scientific curiosity, in the first degree."

"And how does the admission's committee find?"

"Accepted."

"Very well. Graduate inmate #37632 is hereby denounced to 4-6 years of hard lab-or, with no chance of full funding. Next case."

 

[Frozenshades]

^ This is me slightly buzzed and anxiously procrastinating things related to my candidacy exam on Wednesday.

 

[Lupin21]

^ This is me slightly buzzed and anxiously procrastinating things related to my candidacy exam on Wednesday.

Stressful. I wish you smooth sailing, inmate.

 

[Frozenshades]

Stressful. I wish you smooth sailing, inmate.

Thanks. You know, it is but at the same time I feel some level of catharsis that it’s forward progress either way. I’m tired of school and a long distance relationship, if they give me the shaft not staying will be strongly considered.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

^ This is me slightly buzzed and anxiously procrastinating things related to my candidacy exam on Wednesday.

Exciting! I hope everything goes well!

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

@cheathac I got your PM....will try to respond this week Just got off clinics and back to teaching this wk.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Thanks! In undergrad I did some projects with studying neurotoxin paralysis in female mice, adnoviral vectors for influenza virus in mice, and studied canine gaits after amputation surgeries. I did some work with a biotech company mainly doing cardiovascular stent research in pigs (loved that). Last summer I did the Boehringer Ingelheim veterinary scholars program studying changes in the blood-brain barrier rat model after a sonic blast (mimicking IED bombs soliders are exposed to). This summer I'm doing small projects on harvesting spleens in mice looking at C. bovis, a small autoclave study, as well as some primate behavior at a contract research company. I wouldn't say I'm in love with benchtop research but have done it enough to like it more than some aspects of clinical work. I would be more interested in clinical translational type studies vs bench top though I would have to say.

Can you expand on what you mean by this? Almost all basic science research has benchtop components, and most clinical research does too unless you are doing retrospective studies or survery/report-based ones.

Do you mean you would prefer research with veterinary species/animal models versus more high-tech/in-depth molecular type stuff?

Are you more interested in research that is focused on veterinary species, or research that has more direct application to humans?

 

[cheathac]

Can you expand on what you mean by this? Almost all basic science research has benchtop components, and most clinical research does too unless you are doing retrospective studies or survery/report-based ones.

Do you mean you would prefer research with veterinary species/animal models versus more high-tech/in-depth molecular type stuff?

Are you more interested in research that is focused on veterinary species, or research that has more direct application to humans?

Sorry that I'm confusing! Yes I prefer research with veterinary species/animal models that has a more direct application to humans! That puts it perfectly.

 

[supershorty]

First semester of graduate school is officially done.

 

[Lupin21]

^ This is me slightly buzzed and anxiously procrastinating things related to my candidacy exam on Wednesday.

Hope it went well!!!!

 

[Frozenshades]

Hope it went well!!!!

Passed! Told I did a good job. Thanks!

 

[Balesofhay]

Good new(ish): I scheduled my defense
Bad news: my PI has gone back on his verbal promise for me to stay in the lab and work until I find a job. So now I have less than a month find one. Also yea I know, I shouldn’t have counted on something that we talked about months ago but still. Much stress was to be had today and no writing happened today.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Good new(ish): I scheduled my defense
Bad news: my PI has gone back on his verbal promise for me to stay in the lab and work until I find a job. So now I have less than a month find one. Also yea I know, I shouldn’t have counted on something that we talked about months ago but still. Much stress was to be had today and no writing happened today.

That sounds super stressful. My half-lab mate (is that a thing?) had her master's defense this week and seeing the stress she's been under has been so intimidating. Hang in there.

I would encourage you to job hunt in the Pacific Northwest so we can be neighbors, except we don't really do poultry here.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Lab mate has gotten under my skin a bit recently. Nothing major, and I'm trying to brush it off as it's (probably) not personal. Still, we're getting a new master's student in July and I'm excited to have another person around to maybe break up the weird vibe that's been happening in our lab. Or things could just get worse. Who knows.

 

[Balesofhay]

That sounds super stressful. My half-lab mate (is that a thing?) had her master's defense this week and seeing the stress she's been under has been so intimidating. Hang in there.

I would encourage you to job hunt in the Pacific Northwest so we can be neighbors, except we don't really do poultry here.

I’m ok with not sticking with poultry. I’ve been applying to a lot of biomedical companies up north (aka get me out of Georgia ASAP) but I feel like they don’t realize that my poultry science degree isn’t just chickens

 

[Balesofhay]

I hate me 2 years ago

 

[Balesofhay]

I hate me 2 years ago

Update: words don’t make sense anymore and I’ve used the word Salmonella over 200 times so far. Will I make my self imposed deadline? Who knows

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Update: words don’t make sense anymore and I’ve used the word Salmonella over 200 times so far. Will I make my self imposed deadline? Who knows

You can do it! Just add Salmonella a few more hundred times and you're good, right?

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

Last summer I did the Boehringer Ingelheim veterinary scholars program studying changes in the blood-brain barrier rat model after a sonic blast (mimicking IED bombs soliders are exposed to).

I know the exact professor you did this research with lol. She visited by undergrad last year and presented her research. Super cool stuff!!

 

[cheathac]

I know the exact professor you did this research with lol. She visited by undergrad last year and presented her research. Super cool stuff!!

That's awesome! May I ask where you go to undergrad? I had an undergrad from Earlham College work with me and she spoke here. She has been a great mentor to me in my veterinary career. I went with her to Japan last summer as well and had a fantastic time.

 

[supershorty]

Today was the first time I tried something crazy and it actually worked.

Also the first time I left lab with a smile on my face since I started my PhD.

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

That's awesome! May I ask where you go to undergrad? I had an undergrad from Earlham College work with me and she spoke here. She has been a great mentor to me in my veterinary career. I went with her to Japan last summer as well and had a fantastic time.

Well, I went to Earlham (may delete this name later, don't quote) I graduated last year
It's a great school. The PI I did research with met your prof through Twitter I believe and had her visit our school. She had me show her around Earlham and had dinner with her since I'm the only recent student to apply or go to vet school. Now I'm super curious who you met! I actually almost did a summer research program at Purdue between my junior and senior year (I got in and such) but had to decline because the timing didn't work out with a school trip to Berlin. So I ended up working with neuroscience professor at EC. Small world!

 

[vetmedhead]

I am officially a Master of the Universe an MPH!

 

[Balesofhay]

I am officially a Master of the Universe an MPH!

I plan on calling myself master of chickens within the next month so I feel you

 

[vetmedhead]

I plan on calling myself master of chickens within the next month so I feel you

Master of the Universe makes it sound like I want to be He-Man, but I'm so much more like Skeletor if we're being honest here

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I want to have an office with a TARDIS-blue 'keep calm I'm the doctor' sign some day. That's what I'm hoping to get out of this grad school thing.

 

[Keri]

Officially starting UMN's online and veterinary-focused MPH this summer . Anyone else currently enrolled, or beginning this summer as well? I'd love to connect and potentially learn more about the program and my fellow classmates!

 

[Balesofhay]

Ya girl got a research technician position at a private R1 university. I find it a little funny how I was adamant that I didn’t want to go into academia. Oh well. T minus 19 days until my defense

 

[SkiOtter]

Ya girl got a research technician position at a private R1 university. I find it a little funny how I was adamant that I didn’t want to go into academia. Oh well. T minus 19 days until my defense

Oooo fancy. where ya at???? (Or snap me if you don’t want it public)

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Ya girl got a research technician position at a private R1 university. I find it a little funny how I was adamant that I didn’t want to go into academia. Oh well. T minus 19 days until my defense

CONGRATS!!! That's exciting!

 

[supershorty]

My in vitro validation assays gave me the exact opposite result from my in vivo experiments. Not helpful when I'm trying to wrap this project up and get it published.

 

[Balesofhay]

Nerves have set in for my defense Tuesday. Presentation is done so all I need to do is practice and prepare for the questions

 

[PrincessButterCup]

My in vitro validation assays gave me the exact opposite result from my in vivo experiments. Not helpful when I'm trying to wrap this project up and get it published.

I hope you figure out what's going on! That sounds frustrating.



I'm pissed that a sample I shipped overnight arrived at its destination a full day late, which means the schedule is all messed up and they can't actually run it today, which is when the equipment was booked for (and has been booked for weeks). It took a lot out of me to get this sample ready in time. Cell culture had to happen on-schedule and often these cells do whatever TF they want, which meant I ended up at work until midnight on Tuesday and only had three hours Wednesday morning to clean the sample up and get it ready to ship, but dammit I got it ready, and now it's all screwed up with the damn shipping

I will be extra pissed if the sample isn't usable after being on ice packs a full 24 hours longer than expected. And I have no idea when the next opening on the equipment is.

It's like the world is conspiring to keep this project deadlocked.

 

[KCgophervet]

Guys new concept on poster design for conferences. It's actually genius, I know the video is long but it makes so much sense!

 

[grebes4lyfe]

Guys new concept on poster design for conferences. It's actually genius, I know the video is long but it makes so much sense!

This is amazing. I love it. I just sent it to my advisor.

 

[KCgophervet]

This is amazing. I love it. I just sent it to my advisor.

Riiiight??

 

[vetmedhead]

Guys new concept on poster design for conferences. It's actually genius, I know the video is long but it makes so much sense!

I just saw an NPR article about this with some examples where people implemented it at conferences. Very interesting idea

 

[WildZoo]

Guys new concept on poster design for conferences. It's actually genius, I know the video is long but it makes so much sense!

Heard about this from our librarian through my friend who is going to a couple conferences with me this year. Good timing since I have a poster to make!

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

When I had a poster presentation, I got people to talk to me by yelling "yo sup dawg" as they walked by. It did the job.

 

[Stroganoff]

I've never been to an academic conference, but I assume they're like industry conferences where you have a place to stand and set up. Y'all have been to non-academic conferences right? Just use the same attention-getting techniques and creativity that you see at booths (visual aids, projectors, TVs, games where people have to ask questions about your research in order to play, prizes, actual demos and stuff to play with relevant to the research and development). Posters that are printed out with the Abstract, Methods, Data, etc. are what I normally saw in undergraduate biology departments. It's not what I would expect to see in a conference with actual graduate students and faculty and post-docs. In other words, posters when presenting to an internal audience (your own classmates) is fine. When presenting to an external audience at a conference, use creativity to engage an audience who isn't familiar with your work.

I'd walk by every one of those old school posters if I saw them at a conference -- makes me wonder just how out of touch academia is with the real world re: how conferences and presentations and booths actually work to capture attention.