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deleted59964
guys - the rest of the world is pissing themselves laughing at the POTUS and therefore the USA, is that what you want? what was once "the leader of the free world" is now literally a laughing stock globally.
there is a lot at stake here.
habibimarwan
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I vote for Trump, he is best president for Muslim peoples, he works hard to increase jobs and pay and he fights ISIS and bad Muslim leaders like IRAN. Biden works hard for rice pudding. Hopefully no stomach ache!!!
habibimarwan
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Joe Biden loves China and he wants China to be more powerful than AMERICA. China put Muslim people Uyghurs in concentration camps. Joe Biden is ok with concentration camps for Muslims?? Joe Biden is not good person!!!
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deleted270145
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deleted643396
Unlimited resources? Have you been hibernating the past 2 months? If resources weren’t scarce then they would be essentially free. That’s how supply and demand works. No one is consciously rationing. We are effectively rationing based on price...supply and demand.
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Abortion. You don't have to go far on the internet to find people who are genuinely confused why we care about 50K COVID-19 deaths but don't care about 500K abortion "murders" every year. They think differently. They care about different things. Evangelicals voted for Trump for the sake of abortion and the Supreme Court. They'll vote for him again for the same reason. They aren't looking for a role model who'd appoint another RBG or Sotomayor. Abortion, abortion, abortion. Trump has appointed two Justices already and a third to replace RBG is hanging in the balance.
Also, immigration.
Also, guns.
Also, the Democrats can't seem to nominate a candidate with a quality more compelling than "not Trump".
Maybe instead of asking why Trump voters won't see the light and vote for Biden and against their top 3 or 4 issues, ask these people why they won't:
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I'm just amused that the "healthcare is a human right" side of the debate is now tossing out the suggestion that health care ought to be withheld for inadequate Social Credit or political views they find distasteful. Quoted again for posterity:
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Think this is honestly the biggest gripe for a lot of sway-able voters. There were a few candidates I actually liked and others I wanted to know more about, but never received any attention. We’re left with a guy that can’t coherently string more than 2-3 sentences together. Oddly enough, he’s swinging further left now that he’s wrapped this thing up when he beat Bernie soundly because of his perceived moderation, not in spite of it.
The good news for the Dems is that they’re running against Trump who just can’t get out of his own way And more importantly, the Vice President pick is at least as important as the candidate in perhaps a first time ever scenario
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While it does exist, the perception of Biden's mental decline is 100x worse than the reality. With Trump, the scenario is exactly the opposite and yet there are a fair number of people who hold a false equivalence between the two, either due to true believer status or extreme, hypocritical cynicism.
Case in point, just look at the rationalizing and minimizing of Trump's pants-on-head statements about UV light and disinfectant. The guy is not qualified to run a lemonade stand let alone the United States of America, and yet people are still trying to gaslight the public about how he was being sarcastic or inquisitive when there is plain as day video showing he was dead serious as he looks at Birx and asks if we're investigating injecting disinfectants into human bodies.
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From COVID 19 - Economics... to abortion?
Please open a new forum and stick to the economics.
Please open a new forum and stick to the economics.
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The perception that those get care while these do not, is a human perception, and has little to do with politics. It has more to do with a feeling of frustration, by people working and taking care of those with covid-19, that economy should trump healthcare resource allocation in a time of a viral pandemic. And while I'm sure plenty of Trump voters can't see a difference between abortion deaths and Covid19 deaths, that's on them and not me, and it doesn't mean that a difference doesn't exist.
Guns, babies (until society needs to support them, then F them if that occurs (and it will certainly occur...)), judges, and immigration. That's all that matters. And everything else gets a pass. We are to the point now where the president can literally question injecting or ingesting lysol to kill covid19. And it's taken seriously by society such that companies have to release statements warning against it. Literally. But yeah, all those guns, babies, judges, and immigrants....
Do I think elitist, leftist, Democrats are any better? No. Is reverting back to the 'status quo' of politics better? Surely not. But if you're like me, and I still have hope that there are tens of millions of Americans out there like me, then the morality of the president of the United States does in fact matter. What they say matters. How they act matters. How they treat people matters. Matter of fact, all of that matters more than Red, Blue, guns, babies, judges, and immigrants.
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Better yet, since a large percentage of the last 60 pages have been more than just COVID economics, how bout just change the title of the thread so we can have one catch-all place for economics, politics, and social stuff.
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deleted643396
Check again. I never said I agreed with it. I merely suggested that those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Ascribing a morality to any form of payment seems a bit off to me.
I also don’t think healthcare is a human right. However, I do think it is a perk we can afford for all our citizens.
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Status quo of when? Clinton, GWB, Obama ... we could sure do worse. 🙂
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I may need to walk back a little about status quo because I'd surely take Obama or GWB right now. Not a Clinton. Just astounding to me that Trump seems to be a rallying cry of stupidity for such a large segment of our country. HCQ!! Oh wait... Lysol!! Really?.... Grab 'em by the p***y!! I have children, daughters in fact, so surely not. Again, the actions of the president matter beyond just 'issues'. I don't believe for a second you've raised your children to only believe in issues. You've likely, like most of us, tried to raise them to be successful, decent, and moral people. And you'll let the chips fall as they may because in your mind you did the best you could. So why, when it comes to a president, the leader of our country who honestly does represent who we are to the world, do we give a pass on everything except the issues? Doesn't make sense to me.
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The last candidate I voted *for* was Bush 1. Since then, I’ve gone into the booth holding my nose, giving my vote to the least of the undesirables. The primary criteria for me has been the President’s power to nominate federal judges.
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As pgg rightly said, Lots of people who voted for him think differently.
Trump will be gone in either 8 months or 4 years 8 months but the changes to the Federal Judiciary will linger for decades. Not just the Supreme Court. All Federal Judgeships are lifetime. An entire branch of government fundamentally changed for a very long time. Even if he is not reelected. There is definitely a rational case to be made depending on what you choose to care about. See the whole chessboard.
What Trump has done to the courts, explained
No president in recent memory has done more to change the judiciary than Donald Trump.www.vox.com
Again, there are plenty of non-fungal Republicans who could appoint conservative judges. Evangelicals, among all, should be judged first for their choices for the holy and morally judgmental soapboxes they like to stand on.
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Sure, federal judge appointees will outlast the president themself so that's important. But no one can convince me that Trump is not actively and acutely tearing apart our country and that my children and grandchildren won't likely pay for some of the mess he's got us in. How a president acts, responds, and runs the country on a world stage matters in ways that outlast their 4 or 8 years. In Trump's case we may never recover.
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The last candidate I voted for was Gary Johnson. I knew he had no chance of winning. I still wish he was president.
We're more resilient than that. Obama got re-elected and the right lost its mind with all the irrevocable damage he was doing. He appointed a bunch of federal judges and a couple of Justices, too. Somehow, the world kept spinning.
If Trump gets re-elected the left will continue to lament all the irrevocable damage he's doing. And the world will keep spinning.
Whatever happens, I wouldn't trade places with anyone in China, or Russia, or Europe, or Japan, or Brazil, or India, or Africa, or Mexico. Our domestic squabbles are a small, small thing compared to the disarray elsewhere.
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deleted171991
When compared to Mr. Grab-them-by-the-*****, it's completely irrelevant. Drop in the ocean.
Trump is so amoral and so corrupt that I am not sure anybody could be more lowlife than him, even among his acolytes. The man makes Nixon look good and presidential.
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deleted171991
I hope you realize how bad it is when you feel the need to compare us with China, Russia, Brazil, India, Africa, and Mexico.
Europe? Japan? Yes. But not "developing" countries, one touch above banana.
Btw, you're right. To an unbiased foreign eye, we look like those countries now, not like the historically great US of A. The entire civilized world has one eye laughing hysterically and one eye crying when watching our crapshow.
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habibimarwan
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deleted171991
If that's how your moral compass feels, maybe you should recalibrate it, because it's off by degrees of magnitude. But I have a feeling you're trolling, so our conversation ends here.
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deleted162650
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deleted171991
An image is worth a thousand words. Thank you, Sir Jester.
Although, to be fair, there should be 1 hand for Biden and 60 for Trump (based on the total number of accusers).
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habibimarwan
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I like men who are not afraid to show affection! It is tender side of men, not every man is brute and smells bad, every man should shower and be gently! But sometime it goes "over line" with young girls, especially if not daughter or cousin!!
Sorry I add picture but it doesn't work!
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Covid economics. With all of the money we have just borrowed and printed, the idea of student loan forgiveness has just evaporated. The govt doesn't make money, it merely takes it through taxation. Hold on to your shorts, the tax man will be knocking on your door, I'd say, just right after the election, no matter who wins. For the love of Pete, with how the Govt continues fail to protect us, 911, 2008 Financial crisis, Covid, PPP,(paycheck protection program), CDC contaminated test kits, empty PPE emergency stockpile, Parkland shooter,( who was known to school, local police, state police and even the FBI), I cannot understand why so many clamor for MORE govt intervention in our lives. It's just Lucy and Charlie Brown trying to kick the football I guess.
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deleted162650
A couple more (trying to stay politically neutral:
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The United States will not take part in the launching of a global initiative on Friday to speed the development, production and distribution of drugs and vaccines against COVID-19, a spokesman for the U.S. mission in Geneva told Reuters.
Why are we trying to alienate ourselves more and more? Now more than ever it seems like we should build strong partnerships with our allies.
ETA: those here who are voting for trump, do you agree with decisions like this?
www.reuters.com
Why are we trying to alienate ourselves more and more? Now more than ever it seems like we should build strong partnerships with our allies.
ETA: those here who are voting for trump, do you agree with decisions like this?
U.S. says will not take part in WHO global drugs, vaccine initiative launch
The United States will not take part in the launching of a global initiative on Friday to speed the development, production and distribution of drugs and vaccines against COVID-19, a spokesman for the U.S. mission in Geneva told Reuters.
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deleted126335
The United States will not take part in the launching of a global initiative on Friday to speed the development, production and distribution of drugs and vaccines against COVID-19, a spokesman for the U.S. mission in Geneva told Reuters.
Why are we trying to alienate ourselves more and more? Now more than ever it seems like we should build strong partnerships with our allies.
U.S. says will not take part in WHO global drugs, vaccine initiative launch
The United States will not take part in the launching of a global initiative on Friday to speed the development, production and distribution of drugs and vaccines against COVID-19, a spokesman for the U.S. mission in Geneva told Reuters.
America First. Also means America alone. America hated.
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deleted171991
Narcissism and megalomania. Nobody comes close to our magnificence, hence everybody needs to pay for the incredible honor of being with us.
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To me "irrevocable damage" is a pretty high bar. And as a general optimist in most things I think we can go pretty far down the wrong path and still change course.
As Churchill is frequently misquoted to have allegedly said, Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, after exhausting every alternative.
Maybe we're arguing semantics here, but I mean, post-9/11 we spent two two-term presidencies burning through blood and treasure in the middle east, for arguably no gain at all. Are we "irrevocably damaged" from that? Certainly the casualties were. The country as a whole has been doing all right though.
Terrible as COVID-19 is, it's not going to break the country. We'll get through it.
I certainly don't agree with everything this president has done but even in the worst case, if you suppose there is terrible damage to our reputation and image and alliances abroad, it can turn around in the blink of an eye. After all, the world's reaction post-GWB (aka the dumb plain-talkin' US president from Tejas that everyone misunderestimated, the man who singlehandedly broke Iraq and the middle east) was to give Obama the Nobel Peace Prize a few months into his administration. The world's opinion is fickle. If everything was peachy in 2009 it can be peachy in 2021 or 2025.
I think we're going to be fine no matter who wins in November.
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I guess it is going to come down to semantics, but I would say yes. And I'm sure as a libertarian you must agree, at least in parts. Beyond the 9/11 casualties, the US military casualties, and the ?200-600k Iraqis killed, the $3+T war cost is irrevocable damage in the eyes of debt hawks who think we're already too far underwater. The AUMF was supposed to be geared towards a response specifically against 9/11 perpetrators but the executive branch a full twenty freaking years later continues to use and abuse the AUMF for whatever suits their whim. And most importantly (imo) let's not forget about the PATRIOT act, which after countless reauths like the AUMF continues to violate American liberties a full 20 years later as well. If at minimum you don't see the regressive (and stubbornly persistent) security state legislation that stemmed from the post-9/11 GWB era as irrrevocable damage, then I just dunno..
Nobody knew that when it first started ramping, and Trump's incompetence dealing with COVID was (is?) a "near-miss." Surely we as anesthesiologists should have some appreciation for the dangers of retrospective "no harm no foul" thinking
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Not helpful.
The dude is smart. I’ve leaned more from him in these threads than anyone else.
his opinion matters just like everyone else’s. Even if I don’t agree with it.
habibimarwan
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Who is working elective "cases" now? I am still without work!! Hopefully it changes soon!!
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deleted59964
I wish
Australia in the Gulf War - Wikipedia
Australia in the Iraq War - Wikipedia
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I’m making no claims about Trump being fit. We should probably consider an upper age limit for the office at some point. Idk why the boomers won’t go away, but their grip remains everywhere. Trump has certainly had cognitive decline. Idk how intelligent he ever was, but those comments were something else.
That said, Biden’s cognitive decline is real. Just compare him as VP to now. Look at any of his videos in the last 6 months. If that dude is my grandfather, we’re having serious discussions about not letting him drive his car, let alone the country. He can’t stay on track for an period of time. During the debates, it appeared he was unaware of his own positions occasionally. This isn’t something that is going to improve and certainly not under the pressure of the office. All that concerns me because who’s going to be the person governing? The Vice President? A cabinet member?
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I watched most of the dem debates and the interviews Biden has given from his home bunker. There is no doubt he has had some cognitive slowdown when he has to reason or analyze on the fly, and that slowdown is distinct from his stutter or gaffe making. That being said, he mostly held his own and his debate performance actually improved as time went on (he still lost all the debates on the arguments though, imo).
Your perception that he's some drooling gomer in a diaper is not reality, and anyone who listens to the first minute of the following can tell so
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deleted162650
Wait. Is @vector2 arguing against government overreach??? WTF is going on? Black is left, up is white, nothing is as it seems!
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And the land mass of the US. Loved visiting Stralia last year. Best trip ever.I wish
Australia in the Gulf War - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
bear in mind we are 3/4 the population of CaliforniaAustralia in the Iraq War - Wikipedia
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Wait. Is @vector2 arguing against government overreach??? WTF is going on? Black is left, up is white, nothing is as it seems!
Barbara Lee (D) was the only Congressional vote against the AUMF. Russ Feingold (D) was the only Senator who voted against the PATRIOT act. And we all know Bernie the socialist's stance on the Iraq War.
Don't confuse neoliberals with the actual left's stance on the American surveillance state, adventurism and imperialism.
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deleted59964
Maybe you need to treat your president like the brits treat the queen.
their opinions given the same consideration as your grand mother‘s at Christmas lunch
their opinions given the same consideration as your grand mother‘s at Christmas lunch
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deleted87051
Speaking of Australia, what are you guys doing?
Australia COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
Australia Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
www.worldometers.info
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Look, Trump isn't very bright and I doubt a true conservative. But, his dementia is very mild vs Biden's intermediate Dementia:
Arch Guillotti
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Why would you doubt he is a true conservative? Is this a joke? Trump has no political allegiance. The right-wing religious wackos have latched on to him, why don't you ask them about his dementia? Wait, they don't care because the douche Brett is now on the SC???
Biden is no saint but he is better than an old gomer that is barely coherent.
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Biden comes across to many as that "old gomer who is barely coherent." Many of his supporters are very worried about the his cognitive ability heading into the debates this Fall.
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