The ultimate COVID thread

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Stock futures point to more losses Friday following market’s worst day since ‘Black Monday’
PUBLISHED THU, MAR 12 20206:05 PM EDTUPDATED 26 MIN AGO
Just think of how bummed out you would be if you didn’t have that huge gain in 2019. This was going to happen and it makes it an easy decision to start buying again. I expect a huge loss but short lived. Things were way over inflated this past year
 
For FFP I have a graph to show just how much lower we can go. We will use the 2014 market as a potential bottom because 2009 was a crisis of the financial system. The fear was the entire system was going to collapse. Covid 19 simply isn't at that level despite the hysteria and panic:
Note the number 1850. That was a level we re-tested several times over the years 2014-2016. If you are a true pessimist then 1850 is your market bottom. I prefer the 2150 level from 2016 but your guess is as good as mine. FYI, 1850 represents a 45% market decline from the recent all time highs.
2150 is more likely which represents a 35% decline from the recent highs. That is more in line with the expected Bear markets.

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Feel free to ignore this because it is too basic/I am not an anesthesiologist but the search parameters I have tried have not worked.

Why do you predict market bottoms at previous lows? What is protective (from additional decreases) about some indexed value from the past?
 



Lol, “78%” approval guys, guess it’s all over pack it up.






But seriously, Trump is an irresponsible idiot and you’re an irresponsible idiot if you don’t vote for literally anyone else

No need to call people idiots for voting for the candidate they like. We all find different things important to us and vote accordingly. Instead of calling people or their candidates names, maybe explain what issues we should find more important and which candidates better advocate for that topic. You only further make people defensive and dig in their heels when you attack them.

That being said, I’m pretty sure Biden’s got dementia...
 
Why do you predict market bottoms at previous lows? What is protective (from additional decreases) about some indexed value from the past?
Nothing. It's just handwaving and speculation, confidently stated. Graphs with lines and tangents and colors and best-fit curves are all just smoke to help retail investors justify decisions with an illusion of data.

Black swan events beget black swan events. What happens if North Korean regime collapses and refugees flood China and South Korea? What happens if Iran starts some **** with Saudi Arabia to wag their dog? What if the worldwide peak of this is in July, and Trump wins reelection in a landslide with GOP Senate and House majorities? Nobody knows.

People who pretend they know where hard stops and bottoms will fall are delusional.

Here's the only thing that matters: do you believe the world economy will be larger in 10 or 20 years? Yes? Keep your stocks, keep buying according to your plan and asset allocation. This is only complicated if you want it to be.
 
Look at the graph above. 2350 is pretty much a foregone conclusion (December 2018 lows) followed by 2100-2150. If we fall below 2100 the next re-test will be 1850.

Putting lines on graphs is not really how the stock market works and I always find the picking random numbers out of a hat to estimate tops or bottoms or whatever to be the equivalent of somebody walking around with a divining rod and acting like they know anything.

It is what it is. Making correct decisions on asset allocation does not require any pretending to predict the future and knowing what will happen. When individual stocks (or the market) are so damn cheap that you just can't help yourself, jump on in and buy some stock and wait for the eventual windfall. No need to try to guess the bottom.
 
What Blade is talking about is a style of what is called technical analysis, which predicts future stock valuations based on historical pricing and volume, rather than on the fundamental underpinnings of stock valuations (profits, earnings, credit ratings, and other macro and micro economic factors). In application, he is blending an understanding of both when making a decision where/when to place his money.

The technical analysis theory has soundness to it, and it has historically been a very successful way to trade and invest for both institution and retail. However, there are no absolutes in the market, black and white swan events do happen, and there are some reasons that technical analysis fails.

Without getting too far into technical woo land, or breaking any NDAs, I'll try to outline why technical analysis works and briefly touch on why it doesn't.

There are two primary reasons that technical analysis works.

First, a somewhat fundamental reason, and the reason technical analysis was discovered/invented in the first place. There truth is, stocks do have "support" at certain levels, and some of these levels have stronger support than others. This "support" is due to the reality of volume, and it is pretty easy to understand why.

Let's say that a theoretical company has developed a novel drug, and has a million shares outstanding. Then, let's follow the stock price from $1,000 to $10,000, and back down. At first a few insiders get wind and buy a total of 50,000 shares at $1,000. Then, institutional investors see the news, believe in the company, and buy 290,000 shares at $2,500. Retail traders notice the action, and get the news, and want to get in on the action. They drive the price up rapidly from $2,500 to $5,000, but only buy 10,000 shares total. Seeing the quick doubling of stock price, some of the big money players move in, and buy up 600,000 shares at $5,000. Other traders take note, and the remaining 100,000 shares are bought at a price between $5,000 and $10,000. Then, disappointing phase one results are announced, and the stock starts to drop. The drop from 10k back to 5k is precipitous. It doesn't take long for those 100k shares to trade hands. However, there is huge support at the 10k mark because 600,000 shares need to trade hands before the stock can fall below that price point. Once the price drops below 5k, however, the rapid drop resumes because there are so few shares to trade between $2,500 and $5,000. However, the drop is a bit slower as people who bought above $5,000 start to take their losses. When we hit $5,000 we see another big "support" level.

The market has similar "support" levels where massive buys have happened in the past. The stock market doesn't pause/ turn around at these levels because they are somehow magical, it does so because there are simply so many shares that need to change hands for the market to drop below them. When the market drops below these "floors", the "floor" can become a "ceiling" where trading will slow down on the way back up.

Side note, the market was never going to sustain the recent highs. The buy and hold volume was simply too low. Most of the volume in the market was just speculative trading.

A second reason that technical analysis works is that it has been around for a long time, it is well understood, and a lot of people have been successful trading based on the underlying assumptions. When it comes right down to it, the market moves by herd mentality. If you can accurately predict where the herd is going to buy, and where they are going to sell, then you can trade successfully. So, technical analysis works because so many others are/were doing it.

Now, why is it woo, and why does it fail.

One reason is that technical analysis doesn't just use those "support" levels. It also uses prior support levels to chart the trend of the stock price, and buy in before the price hits the support. The reality is, those big money investors aren't going to sit idly by and wait for the stock to get back to the $5,000 mark before they start selling. They may set their stops at $5,500 or $6,000. Technical analysis tries to predict where the stops are going to be, and where the volume is going to come back into the market. This is fraught with risk because you are starting to build assumption upon assumption. If your assumptions match everyone else's, then you are successful. If your assumptions aren't the same, you can lose a lot of money.

Another reason it may fail is that the floor is weak. Let's say that 80% of the shares bought at a floor were bought by true buy and hold investors. They aren't selling, no matter what. The floor is then only 20% as strong as you thought it was.

But the biggest bugaboo in technical analysis today is the evolution of algorithms/quant trading. You have to understand that all of your technical analysis presuppositions are built into the algos. The algos are built by mathematicians that are way smarter than you, and have nothing better to do than study the market, and use that knowledge to build better algos. They are faster than you. They can turn on and buy or sell at an incredibly fast rate. They know where the "support" levels are, way better than you ever could, and they use that knowledge against you.

It is not uncommon to see the market crash just below a technical "support" level, see retail traders, and institutions, capitulate and flood the market with cheap shares, only to see the market suddenly bounce. The algos waited until you capitulated, bought up all your shares, then reversed the market, leaving you holding the bag. They also do it on the upside. They will drive up the market, convincing you to buy their overpriced share, then they will crash the market, leaving you holding the bag. It is both beautiful and disgusting at the same time.

This is one of those weird things in life where what PGG said is largely true, and what Blade is saying is also largely true. There are no absolutes in the market, and the reality is that quant/algo trading has supplanted both technical and fundamental analysis for the big money that truly determines what happens to the market. Perhaps it is more correct to say that technical and fundamental analysis is incorporated into quant/algo models, and they use it against you.

That is why traders almost always lose. The big money is working against you, and your only advantage is the fact that you are moving a, relatively, small amount of money around. You can reverse your positions much, much faster, because you don't have to unload, or buy, thousand of shares at a time. But understand, you are playing against the house, and the house (almost) always wins.
 
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No need to call people idiots for voting for the candidate they like. We all find different things important to us and vote accordingly. Instead of calling people or their candidates names, maybe explain what issues we should find more important and which candidates better advocate for that topic. You only further make people defensive and dig in their heels when you attack them.

That being said, I’m pretty sure Biden’s got dementia...

Lol, you think his supporters is going to be convinced to abandon strong daddy due to a cogent, rational argument? Because that's a ridiculously naive take. People made up their minds about Trump mostly before the election and definitely by 3 months into his term, as evidenced by the most static approval ratings in modern presidential history. FFS, there was a poll this past week revealing that conservatives are washing their hands at a lower rate on purpose, presumably because dear leader said something about a hoax.

We are far past the "well, good sir have you considered that your position is perhaps not as well-founded as you thought because of blah blah cheerio good day" stage and have reached the "stop it you goddamn ***** because you're gonna get yourself a bunch of other people killed" stage.




Biden has some cognitive decline, for sure. And I say a couple things to that: 1. Trump's decline is probably just as bad (watch a video of him talking in 1990 and compare it to now). 2. Biden will be surrounded by qualified people who actually want to work in government instead of a bunch of unqualified sycophants 3. Even if you don't vote for a dem, jfc, vote for Weld or the libertarian candidate



 
We used to be comforted by the fact that Trump’s harm to the United States was tempered by his and his administration’s incompetence. Now his incompetence has the very real possibility of causing harm.
 
What Blade is talking about is a style of what is called technical analysis, which predicts future stock valuations based on historical pricing and volume, rather than on the fundamental underpinnings of stock valuations (profits, earnings, credit ratings, and other macro and micro economic factors). In application, he is blending an understanding of both when making a decision where/when to place his money.

The technical analysis theory has soundness to it, and it has historically been a very successful way to trade and invest for both institution and retail. However, there are no absolutes in the market, black and white swan events do happen, and there are some reasons that technical analysis fails.

Without getting too far into technical woo land, or breaking any NDAs, I'll try to outline why technical analysis works and briefly touch on why it doesn't.

Here's the thing, technical analysis doesn't work long term. It always falls apart. It only looks good in backtests. I am well versed in what it is and how do go about it, I just came to understand it isn't a useful decision making tool that will help you long term and it's why I laugh at the charts and the attempts to precisely define levels of support and what not.

(that's not to say a short term trader can't get some useful data, but none of us should be short term traders)
 
We're about a week behind Italy, give or take, so expect infections to begin mounting and events, consumer demand, and supply chains to evaporate. The earliest a vaccine will likely be available will be sometime in mid-to-late 2021, but the bulk of infection will have already occurred. Markets are going to remain rocky until any certainty becomes apparent. If you buy now expect further losses that you'll probably recoup when things swing around. The market won't hit bottom until we're establish what the new normal is going to be, and I predict that being about a month out.

I'm just some guy though, what do I know.
 
For FFP I have a graph to show just how much lower we can go. We will use the 2014 market as a potential bottom because 2009 was a crisis of the financial system. The fear was the entire system was going to collapse. Covid 19 simply isn't at that level despite the hysteria and panic:
Note the number 1850. That was a level we re-tested several times over the years 2014-2016. If you are a true pessimist then 1850 is your market bottom. I prefer the 2150 level from 2016 but your guess is as good as mine. FYI, 1850 represents a 45% market decline from the recent all time highs.
2150 is more likely which represents a 35% decline from the recent highs. That is more in line with the expected Bear markets.

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I'm thinking more like 1,250-1,500. Unlike prior recessions, which had issues with overvaluation, this will be a true depression brought on by foundational problems in the global economic system. Supply chain disruption and weak demand will lead to massive job loss on a global scale without serious government intervention. And intervention will not come cheap, so even if it occurs, growing debt burdens will hamper economic growth for years.
 
If the greatest investor of all times (Warren Buffett) can't predict the market after 80 years of investing (and many other great investors agree), I think non-professional laymen like us don't stand a chance.

I think Wall Street people are not proactive, but reactive, and they tend to overreact to both good and bad news. I also think they have no friggin' idea what's coming. For example, as I write, the market is up 3%, while there is really no reason for optimism. The Chinese cannot be trusted about their case numbers (they have now come up with the idea that Covid-19 is of American origin), and no other country has reported decreasing numbers of infected.

The only good thing that may happen is indeed that the virus calms down for the spring/summer; even then, things won't change in the fall, because we won't have a mass-produced vaccine for another 1-1.5 years (that's how long it takes to test it, so it doesn't harm). This virus won't get truly under control until a big swath of population undergoes infection and becomes (somewhat) immune to it, hence we have a degree of herd immunity, or until that famous R0 number drops, most likely due to a mutation. Right now, the only mutation we know about has made it more virulent; one of the two strains is much more lethal. Also, as long as we don't have enough cheap tests, to prove to people that most infections are mild/asymptomatic, the mass psychosis will only get worse, as everybody will know at least a person who died because of the virus. Let's not mention the epidemiological and clinical value of tests.

I think the responsible investor has to do a kind of Monte Carlo simulation in his mind, taking into account every possibility and their likelihoods, including more black swans. To me, these are not the times to invest at 40% off the peak, and I don't believe this market will drop only as low as in usual cycles. This is more akin to a world war situation, economically, so look at the 1940s, not at the 2000s. I'm curious what Ray Dalio will say; this is his field of expertise.

Good luck and health to us all!
 
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Lol, “78%” approval guys, guess it’s all over pack it up.






But seriously, Trump is an irresponsible idiot and you’re an irresponsible idiot if you don’t vote for literally anyone else

I agree that Trump has proven his incompetence beyond ANY doubt, during this epidemic. All he cares about is Trump, and how he looks on TV. Thank gods we are not in a real war, or we may not have a country anymore. This emperor is naked, and the world record-holder at lying.

I also tend to agree that, even with a mildly demented Biden, one simply cannot justify voting for Trump, unless one has some character/IQ issues. A players hire A players, B players hire C players, C hire D, and so on till Z. Trump's problems are 1. that he is far from A, 2. that he surrounds himself with weak sycophantic yesmen, not experts, and 3. that he doesn't listen even to the mediocrities he hires.

Biden's TEAM came out with a better plan than the White House, which is scary. But it's also reassuring that one is not voting just for Biden, but for a competent team whom he would listen to, unlike YouKnowWho.
 
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We used to be comforted by the fact that Trump’s harm to the United States was tempered by his and his administration’s incompetence. Now his incompetence has the very real possibility of causing harm.

Just curious who is "we" when you say people were comforted? I'm 100% sure this administration has been causing harm for awhile now. I won't give anecdotes as I'm sure one could do research to find many examples. But for example when an administration has white supremacists Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon as advisors it seems like it would be hard to ignore harm that is being caused, but clearly that's not the case. Of course I'm not saying that no other president has caused harm ever in history, but trump causing direct harm is not anything new for many people.
 
As the markets continue to tank, do any of you guys have any experience trading SOXS or similar ETFs? One of my partners bought in while the markets were in free fall and made a killing.
 
Just curious who is "we" when you say people were comforted? I'm 100% sure this administration has been causing harm for awhile now. I won't give anecdotes as I'm sure one could do research to find many examples. But for example when an administration has white supremacists Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon as advisors it seems like it would be hard to ignore harm that is being caused, but clearly that's not the case. Of course I'm not saying that no other president has caused harm ever in history, but trump causing direct harm is not anything new for many people.

What I mean by that is we’ve assumed that his incompetence would prevent him from doing something truly irreversible to the fabric of society in the United States. Everything he’s done can be reversed by voting in a more competent administration. To me, Trump, and the weird cult that worships him, is more of a symptom of deep-rooted economic and social anxieties in this country that have multiple causes. If we got to the root of those problems then Trumpism and the malevolence thats comes with it would vanish. All we had to do in the meantime was avoid major war and other major cataclysms (e.g. a pandemic) because that is when the incompetence becomes dangerous.
 
What I mean by that is we’ve assumed that his incompetence would prevent him from doing something truly irreversible to the fabric of society in the United States. Everything he’s done can be reversed by voting in a more competent administration. To me, Trump, and the weird cult that worships him, is more of a symptom of deep-rooted economic and social anxieties in this country that have multiple causes. If we got to the root of those problems then Trumpism and the malevolence thats comes with it would vanish. All we had to do in the meantime was avoid major war and other major cataclysms (e.g. a pandemic) because that is when the incompetence becomes dangerous.
History shows that, if we don't fix this now, we are in for much more than just another 4 years of trumpism. Institutional damage tends to become more hardly reversible as time passes (think Venezuela, Hungary, Russia). Already people don't even flinch at weekly preposterous things that would have gotten a president impeached just 3-4 decades ago. The biggest protests were right after his inauguration (the Women's March). Our democracy is sick.

It all started by voting for a p-ssy grabber and habitual liar, which would have been inconceivable just a few years before. It only goes downhill from that (character is destiny).
 
What I mean by that is we’ve assumed that his incompetence would prevent him from doing something truly irreversible to the fabric of society in the United States. Everything he’s done can be reversed by voting in a more competent administration. To me, Trump, and the weird cult that worships him, is more of a symptom of deep-rooted economic and social anxieties in this country that have multiple causes. If we got to the root of those problems then Trumpism and the malevolence thats comes with it would vanish. All we had to do in the meantime was avoid major war and other major cataclysms (e.g. a pandemic) because that is when the incompetence becomes dangerous.

Ahh got it. I see your point, but I guess I'll agree to disagree. Myself and many of my friends/people I work with in organizations didn't make those assumptions. I never saw his incompetence as only dangerous with your 2 examples. Things that happen on the micro level affect things at the macro level. His incompetence has been harming people for awhile now.
But I completely see your point and not surprised that everyone has buried their heads the past 3.5 years about the affects of his incompetence. I mean they voted him in so these are the consequences.

The fact that he's tweeting and blaming Obama and Biden for what is happening now is truly disgusting, but he's showed his true colors from the beginning, so this is what we get. Ultimately, those less privileged than us are feeling the worse of this faster, instead of worrying about how much money to put in the stock market, they're worrying about how to pay the rent or afford their medications in 2 weeks.
 
Ahh got it. I see your point, but I guess I'll agree to disagree. Myself and many of my friends/people I work with in organizations didn't make those assumptions. I never saw his incompetence as only dangerous with your 2 examples. Things that happen on the micro level affect things at the macro level. His incompetence has been harming people for awhile now.
But I completely see your point and not surprised that everyone has buried their heads the past 3.5 years about the affects of his incompetence. I mean they voted him in so these are the consequences.

The fact that he's tweeting and blaming Obama and Biden for what is happening now is truly disgusting, but he's showed his true colors from the beginning, so this is what we get. Ultimately, those less privileged than us are feeling the worse of this faster, instead of worrying about how much money to put in the stock market, they're worrying about how to pay the rent or afford their medications in 2 weeks.
One of the greatest sources of bad decisions in the world is what Charlie Munger calls "error-causing psychological tendency, bias from consistency and commitment tendency, including the tendency to avoid or promptly resolve cognitive dissonance. Includes the self-confirmation tendency of all conclusions, particularly expressed conclusions, and with a special persistence for conclusions that are hard-won."

As he explains:
"Well, what I’m saying here is that the human mind is a lot like the human egg, and the human egg has a shut-off device. When one sperm gets in, it shuts down so the next one can’t get in. The human mind has a big tendency of the same sort. And here again, it doesn’t just catch ordinary mortals, it catches the deans of physics. According to Max Planck, the really innovative, important new physics was never really accepted by the old guard.

Instead, a new guard came along that was less brain-blocked by its previous conclusions. And if Max Planck’s crowd had this consistency and commitment tendency that kept their old inclusions intact in spite of disconfirming evidence, you can imagine what the crowd that you and I are part of behaves like."

I.e. most people have a very hard time changing their minds. Hence the disdain for "flip-floppers", while any smart person knows that one should change one's opinions based on new data all the time.
 
Ahh got it. I see your point, but I guess I'll agree to disagree. Myself and many of my friends/people I work with in organizations didn't make those assumptions. I never saw his incompetence as only dangerous with your 2 examples. Things that happen on the micro level affect things at the macro level. His incompetence has been harming people for awhile now.
But I completely see your point and not surprised that everyone has buried their heads the past 3.5 years about the affects of his incompetence. I mean they voted him in so these are the consequences.

The fact that he's tweeting and blaming Obama and Biden for what is happening now is truly disgusting, but he's showed his true colors from the beginning, so this is what we get. Ultimately, those less privileged than us are feeling the worse of this faster, instead of worrying about how much money to put in the stock market, they're worrying about how to pay the rent or afford their medications in 2 weeks.

I’m being even more critical of Trump than you. I’m saying his decisions that have unraveled some of our important institutions were driven by an almost spiteful and cynical greed likely designed to enrich himself and his cronies. His weakness at doing that with such resounding success would be his incompetence (and vanity). This is evidenced by the firings or resignations of the more competent people in his administration. It seemed at every turn his malevolence was thwarted by his ineptitude. It’s in a situation like this where the incompetence comes into play as being the undesirable characteristic of this administration.
 
One of my favorite things in the last few weeks is that we can absolute abolish any notion the crypto fanboys have about Bitcoin (and the like) being similar to a digital gold that can store value in a crisis situation. Bitcoin is down 50% in the last month which is way, way, way worse than the stock markets let alone things like bonds (or even gold).
 
One of my favorite things in the last few weeks is that we can absolute abolish any notion the crypto fanboys have about Bitcoin (and the like) being similar to a digital gold that can store value in a crisis situation. Bitcoin is down 50% in the last month which is way, way, way worse than the stock markets let alone things like bonds (or even gold).
In times of calamity, people go to cash and useful goods. Gold cannot be eaten, and loses a lot of value.
 
In times of calamity, people go to cash and useful goods. Gold cannot be eaten, and loses a lot of value.

please don't get me wrong, I am saying nothing positive about gold. I have argued for a long time that it has no real place of value in a retirement portfolio, I'm just pointing out the true insanity of the bitcoin believers who have touted a main benefit of the cryptocurrency being the ability to maintain and store value during future unknown disasters.

Bitcoin is speculative BS. It has no real value except in the belief by others that it should have value and we are seeing right now how strongly mistaken that is.

At least gold hasn't dropped like a rock. Bitcoin, on the other hand, could be tanking a lot farther than it already has.
 
please don't get me wrong, I am saying nothing positive about gold. I have argued for a long time that it has no real place of value in a retirement portfolio, I'm just pointing out the true insanity of the bitcoin believers who have touted a main benefit of the cryptocurrency being the ability to maintain and store value during future unknown disasters.

Bitcoin is speculative BS. It has no real value except in the belief by others that it should have value and we are seeing right now how strongly mistaken that is.

At least gold hasn't dropped like a rock. Bitcoin, on the other hand, could be tanking a lot farther than it already has.
Because Tiffany's sells so much jewelry made of bitcoin...
 
In times of calamity, people go to cash and useful goods. Gold cannot be eaten, and loses a lot of value.
In a minor crisis, cash is king. In a major one, bullets, food, water, and daily necessities reign supreme. If you tried offering a family a nugget of gold for their much-needed canned goods in Syria, they'd send you walking, or shoot you and take the gold if it seemed convenient and they didn't particularly like you.

Gold indexes will probably perform strong if we go into a recession/depression, but they'll probably be overvalued within months just as in 2008.
 
Haha, that's probably a much more rational pick. SOXS is 3x bear market ETF, trying to hedge myself on those days for when things get really bad.
Never let the tides of the market drag you under. Things will recover. Unless you're a gambler and willing to admit you're such, try and stick with tried-and-true strategies rather than trying to beat the market. Consistent investment and holding on to a wide range of assets is key
 
I invested 1/2 my dry powder so far. I’m keeping my other 1/2 dry for below an S and P 500 of 2350. If I miss it that’s fine as I have increased my equity allocation already and I don’t really want an S and P 500 of 2350!
 
Here's the thing, technical analysis doesn't work long term. It always falls apart. It only looks good in backtests. I am well versed in what it is and how do go about it, I just came to understand it isn't a useful decision making tool that will help you long term and it's why I laugh at the charts and the attempts to precisely define levels of support and what not.

(that's not to say a short term trader can't get some useful data, but none of us should be short term traders)

I don't disagree, and I wasn't defending technicals, just explaining what Blade was doing. There was a time when one could successfully trade technicals, including the trend lines. That time is gone. As I said, the algos have all your technicals programmed in, and they manipulate the market to break you at your calculated levels. I actually don't think it is useful at all for the short term trader anymore, but it is for a true buy and hold investor, who has a lump sum to put into the market, and is just looking for an entry. But not the drawn in trend lines. Those are no longer useful for anyone.
 
I don't disagree, and I wasn't defending technicals, just explaining what Blade was doing.

oh I was well aware of what he was doing. I have chuckled at it for years.
 
It's interesting to watch the market during the press conference. It seems right now they have been reassured (as during an optimistic earnings call). Gods forbid all these people don't keep their promises, because that will be the next market carnage.

I am also trying to understand what they are thanking Trump for.

And there we go again about politics, oil, energy... and cult of personality from Pence. Where have I seen this before? 🙄
 
It's interesting to watch the market during the press conference. It seems right now they have been reassured (as during an optimistic earnings call). Gods forbid all these people don't keep their promises, because that will be the next market carnage.

I am also trying to understand what they are thanking Trump for.

the way this has been going futures will be down the max heading into Monday morning
 
the way this has been going futures will be down the max heading into Monday morning
The market will close 7% up, and that's what Trump wanted.

Oh, 9% up. CBS News has a delayed ticker.
 
The market will close 7% up, and that's what Trump wanted.

Oh, 9% up. CBS News has a delayed ticker.

I know, I'm saying the recent big jump up days have been followed by massive drops
 
Well if you're watching trump's speech right now, he's playing us real good. Definitely will pick up the stock market with this nonsense, which I'm sure he's mostly concerned about.
 
OMG, he went again to the swine flu lies. Everything is about him.

I personally enjoyed the questions about how he was recently exposed to someone with the virus and if he was planning to self-quarantine. It was especially amusing in light of how during the early stages of the press conference he proceeded to shake everyone’s hand. Talk about a lack of situational awareness.
 
Loved this line in the recent email update from our hospital

"If the employee’s job duties cannot be performed remotely and the employee is unable to make other arrangements for child care, annual leave should be submitted. If the employee does not have annual leave, unpaid time off should be submitted. Employees on leave without pay (unpaid time off) will not be subject to disciplinary action due to these circumstances. "


Administrators feel comfortable sending emails like this in the wealthiest country in the world, but sure, Bernie is the crazy one
 
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What Blade is talking about is a style of what is called technical analysis, which predicts future stock valuations based on historical pricing and volume, rather than on the fundamental underpinnings of stock valuations (profits, earnings, credit ratings, and other macro and micro economic factors). In application, he is blending an understanding of both when making a decision where/when to place his money.

The technical analysis theory has soundness to it, and it has historically been a very successful way to trade and invest for both institution and retail. However, there are no absolutes in the market, black and white swan events do happen, and there are some reasons that technical analysis fails.

Without getting too far into technical woo land, or breaking any NDAs, I'll try to outline why technical analysis works and briefly touch on why it doesn't.

There are two primary reasons that technical analysis works.

First, a somewhat fundamental reason, and the reason technical analysis was discovered/invented in the first place. There truth is, stocks do have "support" at certain levels, and some of these levels have stronger support than others. This "support" is due to the reality of volume, and it is pretty easy to understand why.

Let's say that a theoretical company has developed a novel drug, and has a million shares outstanding. Then, let's follow the stock price from $1,000 to $10,000, and back down. At first a few insiders get wind and buy a total of 50,000 shares at $1,000. Then, institutional investors see the news, believe in the company, and buy 290,000 shares at $2,500. Retail traders notice the action, and get the news, and want to get in on the action. They drive the price up rapidly from $2,500 to $5,000, but only buy 10,000 shares total. Seeing the quick doubling of stock price, some of the big money players move in, and buy up 600,000 shares at $5,000. Other traders take note, and the remaining 100,000 shares are bought at a price between $5,000 and $10,000. Then, disappointing phase one results are announced, and the stock starts to drop. The drop from 10k back to 5k is precipitous. It doesn't take long for those 100k shares to trade hands. However, there is huge support at the 10k mark because 600,000 shares need to trade hands before the stock can fall below that price point. Once the price drops below 5k, however, the rapid drop resumes because there are so few shares to trade between $2,500 and $5,000. However, the drop is a bit slower as people who bought above $5,000 start to take their losses. When we hit $5,000 we see another big "support" level.

The market has similar "support" levels where massive buys have happened in the past. The stock market doesn't pause/ turn around at these levels because they are somehow magical, it does so because there are simply so many shares that need to change hands for the market to drop below them. When the market drops below these "floors", the "floor" can become a "ceiling" where trading will slow down on the way back up.

Side note, the market was never going to sustain the recent highs. The buy and hold volume was simply too low. Most of the volume in the market was just speculative trading.

A second reason that technical analysis works is that it has been around for a long time, it is well understood, and a lot of people have been successful trading based on the underlying assumptions. When it comes right down to it, the market moves by herd mentality. If you can accurately predict where the herd is going to buy, and where they are going to sell, then you can trade successfully. So, technical analysis works because so many others are/were doing it.

Now, why is it woo, and why does it fail.

One reason is that technical analysis doesn't just use those "support" levels. It also uses prior support levels to chart the trend of the stock price, and buy in before the price hits the support. The reality is, those big money investors aren't going to sit idly by and wait for the stock to get back to the $5,000 mark before they start selling. They may set their stops at $5,500 or $6,000. Technical analysis tries to predict where the stops are going to be, and where the volume is going to come back into the market. This is fraught with risk because you are starting to build assumption upon assumption. If your assumptions match everyone else's, then you are successful. If your assumptions aren't the same, you can lose a lot of money.

Another reason it may fail is that the floor is weak. Let's say that 80% of the shares bought at a floor were bought by true buy and hold investors. They aren't selling, no matter what. The floor is then only 20% as strong as you thought it was.

But the biggest bugaboo in technical analysis today is the evolution of algorithms/quant trading. You have to understand that all of your technical analysis presuppositions are built into the algos. The algos are built by mathematicians that are way smarter than you, and have nothing better to do than study the market, and use that knowledge to build better algos. They are faster than you. They can turn on and buy or sell at an incredibly fast rate. They know where the "support" levels are, way better than you ever could, and they use that knowledge against you.

It is not uncommon to see the market crash just below a technical "support" level, see retail traders, and institutions, capitulate and flood the market with cheap shares, only to see the market suddenly bounce. The algos waited until you capitulated, bought up all your shares, then reversed the market, leaving you holding the bag. They also do it on the upside. They will drive up the market, convincing you to buy their overpriced share, then they will crash the market, leaving you holding the bag. It is both beautiful and disgusting at the same time.

This is one of those weird things in life where what PGG said is largely true, and what Blade is saying is also largely true. There are no absolutes in the market, and the reality is that quant/algo trading has supplanted both technical and fundamental analysis for the big money that truly determines what happens to the market. Perhaps it is more correct to say that technical and fundamental analysis is incorporated into quant/algo models, and they use it against you.

That is why traders almost always lose. The big money is working against you, and your only advantage is the fact that you are moving a, relatively, small amount of money around. You can reverse your positions much, much faster, because you don't have to unload, or buy, thousand of shares at a time. But understand, you are playing against the house, and the house (almost) always wins.
Thank you, and pgg for your write-ups!
 
I don't disagree, and I wasn't defending technicals, just explaining what Blade was doing. There was a time when one could successfully trade technicals, including the trend lines. That time is gone. As I said, the algos have all your technicals programmed in, and they manipulate the market to break you at your calculated levels. I actually don't think it is useful at all for the short term trader anymore, but it is for a true buy and hold investor, who has a lump sum to put into the market, and is just looking for an entry. But not the drawn in trend lines. Those are no longer useful for anyone.

That's what I am doing. Increasing my equity allocation from 60% to 70-75% during this bear market. With my remaining 25% I have more than enough reserves to ride out this Bear for the next 3-5 years if needed. Once we return to full BULL mode I will re-allocate back down to 55-60%. Yes, at my age and remaining career shelf life I must re-allocate back down for better risk tolerance/lower volatility even if it means lower returns.
 
Screenshot_20200313-200958_Samsung Internet.jpg

I have been warning people for months. Honestly these numbers, even their high number of deaths, could be low, as it fails to account for overwhelming of hospital and ventilator capacity. I hope it won't go over 1.7 million, but it could go as high as 3.
 
What Blade is talking about is a style of what is called technical analysis, which predicts future stock valuations based on historical pricing and volume, rather than on the fundamental underpinnings of stock valuations (profits, earnings, credit ratings, and other macro and micro economic factors). In application, he is blending an understanding of both when making a decision where/when to place his money.

The technical analysis theory has soundness to it, and it has historically been a very successful way to trade and invest for both institution and retail. However, there are no absolutes in the market, black and white swan events do happen, and there are some reasons that technical analysis fails.

Without getting too far into technical woo land, or breaking any NDAs, I'll try to outline why technical analysis works and briefly touch on why it doesn't.

There are two primary reasons that technical analysis works.

First, a somewhat fundamental reason, and the reason technical analysis was discovered/invented in the first place. There truth is, stocks do have "support" at certain levels, and some of these levels have stronger support than others. This "support" is due to the reality of volume, and it is pretty easy to understand why.

Let's say that a theoretical company has developed a novel drug, and has a million shares outstanding. Then, let's follow the stock price from $1,000 to $10,000, and back down. At first a few insiders get wind and buy a total of 50,000 shares at $1,000. Then, institutional investors see the news, believe in the company, and buy 290,000 shares at $2,500. Retail traders notice the action, and get the news, and want to get in on the action. They drive the price up rapidly from $2,500 to $5,000, but only buy 10,000 shares total. Seeing the quick doubling of stock price, some of the big money players move in, and buy up 600,000 shares at $5,000. Other traders take note, and the remaining 100,000 shares are bought at a price between $5,000 and $10,000. Then, disappointing phase one results are announced, and the stock starts to drop. The drop from 10k back to 5k is precipitous. It doesn't take long for those 100k shares to trade hands. However, there is huge support at the 10k mark because 600,000 shares need to trade hands before the stock can fall below that price point. Once the price drops below 5k, however, the rapid drop resumes because there are so few shares to trade between $2,500 and $5,000. However, the drop is a bit slower as people who bought above $5,000 start to take their losses. When we hit $5,000 we see another big "support" level.

The market has similar "support" levels where massive buys have happened in the past. The stock market doesn't pause/ turn around at these levels because they are somehow magical, it does so because there are simply so many shares that need to change hands for the market to drop below them. When the market drops below these "floors", the "floor" can become a "ceiling" where trading will slow down on the way back up.

Side note, the market was never going to sustain the recent highs. The buy and hold volume was simply too low. Most of the volume in the market was just speculative trading.

A second reason that technical analysis works is that it has been around for a long time, it is well understood, and a lot of people have been successful trading based on the underlying assumptions. When it comes right down to it, the market moves by herd mentality. If you can accurately predict where the herd is going to buy, and where they are going to sell, then you can trade successfully. So, technical analysis works because so many others are/were doing it.

Now, why is it woo, and why does it fail.

One reason is that technical analysis doesn't just use those "support" levels. It also uses prior support levels to chart the trend of the stock price, and buy in before the price hits the support. The reality is, those big money investors aren't going to sit idly by and wait for the stock to get back to the $5,000 mark before they start selling. They may set their stops at $5,500 or $6,000. Technical analysis tries to predict where the stops are going to be, and where the volume is going to come back into the market. This is fraught with risk because you are starting to build assumption upon assumption. If your assumptions match everyone else's, then you are successful. If your assumptions aren't the same, you can lose a lot of money.

Another reason it may fail is that the floor is weak. Let's say that 80% of the shares bought at a floor were bought by true buy and hold investors. They aren't selling, no matter what. The floor is then only 20% as strong as you thought it was.

But the biggest bugaboo in technical analysis today is the evolution of algorithms/quant trading. You have to understand that all of your technical analysis presuppositions are built into the algos. The algos are built by mathematicians that are way smarter than you, and have nothing better to do than study the market, and use that knowledge to build better algos. They are faster than you. They can turn on and buy or sell at an incredibly fast rate. They know where the "support" levels are, way better than you ever could, and they use that knowledge against you.

It is not uncommon to see the market crash just below a technical "support" level, see retail traders, and institutions, capitulate and flood the market with cheap shares, only to see the market suddenly bounce. The algos waited until you capitulated, bought up all your shares, then reversed the market, leaving you holding the bag. They also do it on the upside. They will drive up the market, convincing you to buy their overpriced share, then they will crash the market, leaving you holding the bag. It is both beautiful and disgusting at the same time.

This is one of those weird things in life where what PGG said is largely true, and what Blade is saying is also largely true. There are no absolutes in the market, and the reality is that quant/algo trading has supplanted both technical and fundamental analysis for the big money that truly determines what happens to the market. Perhaps it is more correct to say that technical and fundamental analysis is incorporated into quant/algo models, and they use it against you.

That is why traders almost always lose. The big money is working against you, and your only advantage is the ïfact that you are moving a, relatively, small amount of money around. You can reverse your positions much, much faster, because you don't have to unload, or buy, thousand of shares at a time. But understand, you are playing against the house, and the house (almost) always wins.

With all due respect, there are significant inaccuracies in that. Technical Analysis is real because human behavior has hardly had enough time to evolve and change over the short history of the stock market. The patterns, trends lines, areas of support/resistance, inflection points, etc are incredibly repetitive because human behavior of fear and greed is repetitive. It doesn't mean you'll make money on TA because it is extremely complicated. You often see it after the fact, or you might have the point of significant inflection correct, but guess the inflection direction incorrectly, but without question it exists. If you don't have an extremely high math IQ and don't have experience looking at thousands and thousands and thousands of charts and trends, you are still entitled to your opinion but you should realize you simply aren't qualified to make that statement.

I'll give a small example. Remember, it would take large volumes to even scratch the surface of this. Look at the common double top and then crash. You can find thousands of charts that do this long term, short term, even in the course of a day. A stock has some sort of sustainable up slope to it for the time being in log form. It's really almost magical because you wonder how the stock price knows to grow at that pace.. but it does. Then let's say it shoots off into a faster higher slope. It's going up way too fast. It hits a peak where enough people say I gotta get out of here and cash in. Now it crashes back to the original lesser slope trendline as fast as it shot up, and begins to grow again at that slower pace. Now you're left with a boatload of investors saying, I knew it, I knew I should have sold at the high of 100 (Cause isn't that what every investor says? Doesn't every investor look back and know for certain that's when they knew they should have sold? Right at the high. It's human behavior, simple and repetitive). So what happens when the stock growing slower makes that second peak matching the first peak? A significant number say I won't screw up again, I'm out! The stock falls below the long term trendline and good night Charlie. Simple minded repressive predictable humans. That's technical analysis.

Technical Analysis is not something that happens because everyone is now reading about technical analysis and that causes the pattern to happen, like a self fulfilling thing. Not even close, actually the opposite. Charts were so crisp and clean 20, 30, and more years ago before all the bozos with a computer came along and think they are TA geniuses and are always guessing what the TA will be instead of letting their innate behavior determine it. They have actually screwed up TA quite a bit rather than created it.

A couple of other quick points. In your example you mentioned 600,000 sellers are now needed to drop below support in your example. No, you just need more sellers than buyers. If no one is buying its going thru the support with a fraction of 600,000 sellers. And I have such a pet peeve with the term big money haha. Nothing personal. But few things are as inaccurate as Big Money came in and manipulated price and made all this money etc. Big Money has repeatedly been shown to be worse at stock picking than a Monkey throwing darts, for real. Now if you say Inside Money, I'm completely with you. But Big Money very rarely knows jack.

Lastly, I think we all get to a point where we realize only an extremely small number of people really make us think and reevaluate our thoughts. Most people's opinions are just noise to us. Pgg has been that person on here more than anybody than when he would challenge my thoughts I'd be like, Oh hell what did I not see this time? haha. So I'm surprised to see such a dismissive post by pgg regarding TA. I can say without the slightest doubt those repetitive patterns are extremely real.
 
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