The ultimate COVID thread

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vector2 said:
Just out of curiosity, who all is overseeing SC's plan? Was the following the consensus of a joint panel that actually included physicians, epidemiologists, and public health experts?
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I couldn't find exactly everyone who is on the management team who is advising the governor but its lead by the acting director of our public health and environmental control department's public health division and the head epidemiologist of the state is on it as well. I also found that the Chief of Staff of said agency is on it as well (environmental law background).
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Have you read nothing I've posted in the last 3 hours?

Let me try again:


Not all states who are starting to re-open are doing it in the same reckless way
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Not all states are, but many are pushing for that. This is a problem because people travel. Higher infection rates in one state tend to rapidly diffuse elsewhere
 
Mad Jack said:
Not all states are, but many are pushing for that. This is a problem because people travel. Higher infection rates in one state tend to rapidly diffuse elsewhere
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I would hope that hotels/AirBnB would be some of the last things allowed to reopen. I know we're not planning on opening those anytime soon, and at one point (might still, not sure) we had mandatory quarantine for people coming from areas with a high prevalence.
 
Spikebd said:
I supported the quarantine in the early phases. Governor Newsom did the correct and laudable action for his constituents and locked down California early on. The state should be thankful for his efforts.
Now that some time has passed, its time for re-assessment of the situation to see how long a quarantine is necessary. Anecdotally, I see a lot of deaths being chalked up as “COVID related” even if they’re from patients with metastatic cancer, COPD, with a hx of PVD s/p BKA two months ago.
The numbers I’m seeing indicate to me that some governors can now look into slowly easing restrictions in their states. Minnesota, Wyoming, Montana - all could reasonably consider lifting certain restrictions
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I'm not sure who was responsible for getting it into the CARES act, but apparently classifying Medicare and Medicaid patients as COVID + increases hospital reimbursement by 20%....I'm sure that's not going to have any confounding of the true death rates
 
Spikebd said:
Now that some time has passed, its time for re-assessment of the situation to see how long a quarantine is necessary. Anecdotally, I see a lot of deaths being chalked up as “COVID related” even if they’re from patients with metastatic cancer, COPD, with a hx of PVD s/p BKA two months ago.
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well you can have all those things and still be killed by covid...
 
though with that said, i think death rate also varies a lot due to how they classify as deaths from covid..

like Qatar has 6500 cases but 9 deaths?? Saudi arabia 11000 cases with 6 deaths? possibly true i guess but that would be impressive
 
I absolutely agree with opening businesses in states with low Covid numbers.

I seriously don’t understand opening beaches, gyms, etc. this makes no sense to me. These should be the last to reopen along with schools.

I also don’t like the SC governor leaving it up to towns to decide.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I would hope that hotels/AirBnB would be some of the last things allowed to reopen. I know we're not planning on opening those anytime soon, and at one point (might still, not sure) we had mandatory quarantine for people coming from areas with a high prevalence.
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People stay with friends or family. When NYC went bad, my little PA area got flooded with NY plates as people fled to family and summer homes, despite there being zero hotels open
 
Mad Jack said:
People stay with friends or family. When NYC went bad, my little PA area got flooded with NY plates as people fled to family and summer homes, despite there being zero hotels open
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I think at this point we're both past the fleeing stage and we know to put restrictions in place about that - during the stage is when my state implemented a "if you're from NY/NJ you must quarantine upon entering the state" plan.
 
dipriMAN said:
I absolutely agree with opening businesses in states with low Covid numbers.

I seriously don’t understand opening beaches, gyms, etc. this makes no sense to me. These should be the last to reopen along with schools.

I also don’t like the SC governor leaving it up to towns to decide.
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First, social distancing will still be enforced at the beach meaning the DNR will break up groups of more than whatever the current number is unless its a single family unit. So this isn't much different than having the sidewalks in my neighborhood open for walking/jogging in that its open air. Second, you leave it up to the towns so that if they want to be more restrictive they can unlike what we saw in Georgia. When this news broke on Sunday lots of the beaches around Charleston were prepared to defy the governor and stay closed. This way they can be and not have to defy him.

McMaster caught a bunch of flak for overriding locations that wanted to shut down non-essential business before he did it statewide so I think this is him trying to correct that mistake.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
I think at this point we're both past the fleeing stage and we know to put restrictions in place about that - during the stage is when my state implemented a "if you're from NY/NJ you must quarantine upon entering the state" plan.
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There is no way people will comply. And even absent fleeing, people are going to be visiting elsewhere. Hell, even with current restrictions I know people that have traveled to NYC, DC, CT, and Long Island during lockdown
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
First, social distancing will still be enforced at the beach meaning the DNR will break up groups of more than whatever the current number is unless its a single family unit. So this isn't much different than having the sidewalks in my neighborhood open for walking/jogging in that its open air. Second, you leave it up to the towns so that if they want to be more restrictive they can unlike what we saw in Georgia. When this news broke on Sunday lots of the beaches around Charleston were prepared to defy the governor and stay closed. This way they can be and not have to defy him.

McMaster caught a bunch of flak for overriding locations that wanted to shut down non-essential business before he did it statewide so I think this is him trying to correct that mistake.
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Beaches are nothing like going outside for a walk or jog. The weather gets nice and the beach is a destination. I don’t see how they will keep social distancing up or enforce it, the mere act of opening beaches will ease peoples thoughts about it.
 
dipriMAN said:
Beaches are nothing like going outside for a walk or jog. The weather gets nice and the beach is a destination. I don’t see how they will keep social distancing up or enforce it, the mere act of opening beaches will ease peoples thoughts about it.
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Well see we have these things called police that can use a motorized buggy (often known as a car) to drive up and down the beaches. They generally do things like enforce the law.
 
Mad Jack said:
There is no way people will comply. And even absent fleeing, people are going to be visiting elsewhere. Hell, even with current restrictions I know people that have traveled to NYC, DC, CT, and Long Island during lockdown
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So its already a problem then
 
Mad Jack said:
One that will enormously expand once these people are able to interact widely with the public and a greater number are emboldened to do as they please
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Except, at least in my state, they still aren't. Stores are limited in the number of people they allow in. You're still not supposed to travel outside your city if you don't have to - although this was a guideline never a hard rule. Hotels/rentals are still closed as are restaurants, movie theaters, sporting events, you get the idea.

Now I fully expect cases to go up after this (how could they not?), but the key is to not overwhelm the system. I'd be surprised if that happens with this. I only speak for SC in this as I haven't been following other states very closely.
 
BLADEMDA said:
That only encourages more people to avoid taxation, look for loopholes and avoid W-2 work.
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Not only that, Socialism incentivizes people to not improve their skills and to barely work at all, to let others pull their weight, to receive full benefits of a "living wage" without adding their fair share of productivity. Look at the controlled experiments of Germany and North Korea and tell me how well the government controlled side did.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Except, at least in my state, they still aren't. Stores are limited in the number of people they allow in. You're still not supposed to travel outside your city if you don't have to - although this was a guideline never a hard rule. Hotels/rentals are still closed as are restaurants, movie theaters, sporting events, you get the idea.

Now I fully expect cases to go up after this (how could they not?), but the key is to not overwhelm the system. I'd be surprised if that happens with this. I only speak for SC in this as I haven't been following other states very closely.
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I'm all about states using common sense measures
 
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Mad Jack said:
The smart thing to do is wait it out as experts recommend. Society shouldn't reward stupidity and punish following expert advice when lives are at stake
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Wait out what exactly? A vaccine that best case scenario is 12-18 months away? Worst case scenario is never developed. Wait out herd immunity that would take many many years with an effective mitigation shutdown? Waiting it out indefinitely simply is not an option.
 
Ezekiel2517 said:
I said it before, the people in this country are nowhere near as relentless as this virus. We're seeing that now already. We don't have what it takes. This is a country that wants the easy way out of everything. The easiest path possible. And also a country that needs to learn everything the hard way.
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Yup, welcome to modern Socialism. What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine.
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
You missed her other sign:
If I have the freedom to kill babies why can't I kill granny too?
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1. The lump of cells within a woman's uterus that you're referring to is called a fetus, not a baby. You're a physician, right? Use terminology befitting of the profession and not buzzwords and phrases meant to play on human emotions.

2. As has been stated many times already, comparing abortion (i.e., woman doing something to her own body that does not affect the health of other individuals) to vaccinations and public health (i.e., someone becoming infected with COVID can spread it to other individuals, thereby directly putting other individuals at risk) is a false equivalence. Nice try.
 
vector2 said:
Well, I surely wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of the somewhat competent GOP governors so here's a diagram I think is fair

qgPluNN.png






Last week there were 7 states still without stay at home orders, some of which possibly hadn't peaked in cases, and all 7 were exclusively led by GOP governors. I really can't understand where your defensiveness is coming from since there is a small signal coming exclusively from one side.
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Your ven diagram shows almost as many independent governors as Republican and Democrat, and you feel they are all *****s.
 
Charles E. Cheeze said:
....woman doing something to her own body that does not affect the health of other individuals
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You mean other than the one she is carrying that is killed off? Oh wait, I'll sound more doctorly and refer to it as a cell lump.

Charles E. Cheeze said:
.....thereby directly putting other individuals at risk) is a false equivalence.
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Given the choice I'd rather be at covid risk than abortly terminated. So you're right, it was a false equivalence.
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
You mean other than the one she is carrying that is killed off? Oh wait, I'll sound more doctorly and refer to it as a cell lump.
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It's not a baby until it's out of the womb, and to describe it as "killing" would necessitate it being viable in the first place, whereas a fetus that is, say, 10 weeks old is certainly not viable. Therefore, to call the abortion of a 10 week fetus as "the freedom to kill babies" is, indeed, just emotionally-charged, over-the-top rhetoric in order to get a rise out of people.


We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
Given the choice I'd rather be at covid risk than abortly terminated. So you're right, it was a false equivalence.
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You didn't refute my argument at all.
 
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No point beating that to death. Regarding talk that the econo-centrics put others at risk, I think of the old Valvoline commercial, You can pay me now or pay me later. We have come to realize we won't suppress Covid out of existence, so any increase in risk now because of increased spread means less risk later.

If we have no cure or treatment (yes, I know we might) herd immunity is met when enough citizens get sick. So it's not the worse idea ever that the knucklehead in the picture spreads corona among his peers while you hide out in the bunker. You have to come out eventually. Why not come out later and have decreased risk then provided to you by the econo-centrics (and the idiot pictured)?
 

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Thread title is COVID-19 Economics, and recent posts debate Roe v Wade. I look forward to reading a few pages into the future about solving Einstein’s Unified Field theory and perfecting cold water tabletop nuclear fusion. Under the title COVID-19 Economics.
 
yes please to stay with economic topic. I don't like reading about you telling me what to do with women bodies. If you ask me, easy answer where I come from!!!
 
If you like me, we need work. No work, no food or family future. This is not good. Please open up surgery schedule before too late!!
 
Monty Python said:
Thread title is COVID-19 Economics, and recent posts debate Roe v Wade. I look forward to reading a few pages into the future about solving Einstein’s Unified Field theory and perfecting cold water tabletop nuclear fusion. Under the title COVID-19 Economics.
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You must be new here
 
Opening the economy with serious restrictions in place is a perfectly reasonable thing to do if your healthcare system has capacity and you are tracking infection numbers and hospitalization numbers very closely. You need to have a plan in place to shut down again when a surge is likely. Again, this is all dictated by healthcare capacity. New York, Boston, and Philadelphia probably shouldn’t open just yet. I’m not sure why there continues to be talk about red vs blue or GOP vs dems? Maybe too much Fox News during quarantine? This is a numbers game, not a social media game.

We should also demand access to everyone’s social media accounts and if you were one of the *****s who contracted the virus from one of your idiotic rallies then you get denied care...or at least charged exorbitant fees. This is a situation where we need to ration care and rationing based on stupidity seems to be a reasonable approach.
 
GravelRider said:
Opening the economy with serious restrictions in place is a perfectly reasonable thing to do if your healthcare system has capacity and you are tracking infection numbers and hospitalization numbers very closely. You need to have a plan in place to shut down again when a surge is likely. Again, this is all dictated by healthcare capacity. New York, Boston, and Philadelphia probably shouldn’t open just yet. I’m not sure why there continues to be talk about red vs blue or GOP vs dems? Maybe too much Fox News during quarantine? This is a numbers game, not a social media game.

We should also demand access to everyone’s social media accounts and if you were one of the *****s who contracted the virus from one of your idiotic rallies then you get denied care...or at least charged exorbitant fees. This is a situation where we need to ration care and rationing based on stupidity seems to be a reasonable approach.
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Is there anywhere in the country that has healthcare capacity? We are not in a hard hit area but we are still being rationed N95 masks and surgical masks.
 
impreza said:
In my opinion, the mass testing and tracing strategy is what you should push for if you really want the lockdown to end, instead of pushing for reopening the economy too early without any good plan.
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Our official case count is 800k and our actual case count is probably in the millions. How do you contact trace that many cases? I think we could have done contact tracing in February but that is not possible now.
 
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Not sure why we are loosening things up when we just hit an all time record on daily COVID deaths.
 
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nimbus said:
Is there anywhere in the country that has healthcare capacity? We are not in a hard hit area but we are still being rationed N95 masks and surgical masks.
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Probably not, but there are areas that have very few cases and could consider reinstating local commerce on a limited basis. It probably wouldn’t “fix” the economy, but some dudes could get their mullets cut. I just don’t understand how this ever became a political issue...beyond billionaires prodding people via social media.

It’s a simple math question. Can your healthcare system handle a surge in patients? Is there a plan in place to handle such a surge?
 
nimbus said:
Is there anywhere in the country that has healthcare capacity? We are not in a hard hit area but we are still being rationed N95 masks and surgical masks.
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We live in a Covid rich state 1.2 mil metro area, 1,000 Covid cases, 150 in hospital, 76 inICU, 46 on vent. One of our 8 regional med centers could handle all cases. Our cases are thankfully starting to drop, local university is starting to do elective procedures. Keeping our fingers crossed! Praying for all first responders. PPE is scarce but not reusing.
 
GravelRider said:
Probably not, but there are areas that have very few cases and could consider reinstating local commerce on a limited basis. It probably wouldn’t “fix” the economy, but some dudes could get their mullets cut. I just don’t understand how this ever became a political issue...beyond billionaires prodding people via social media.

It’s a simple math question. Can your healthcare system handle a surge in patients? Is there a plan in place to handle such a surge?
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Believe it or not in the majority of the USA (3/4) the answer will be yes in May 2020. For some areas May 04th for others May 18th.
 
Angus Avagadro said:
We live in a Covid rich state 1.2 mil metro area, 1,000 Covid cases, 150 in hospital, 76 inICU, 46 on vent. One of our 8 regional med centers could handle all cases. Our cases are thankfully starting to drop, local university is starting to do elective procedures. Keeping our fingers crossed! Praying for all first responders. PPE is scarce but not reusing.
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You have more cases in the hospital than many Metro areas in my state combined.
 
In my state the 3 counties in South Florida (Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach) are the only ones with a large number of Covid + patients. Tampa is next with a 1,000 cases (They have MANY hospitals). The rest of the state is hardly being impacted and represents millions of people. The way I see it only 3 counties in my state shouldn't re-open yet. The rest could re-open in 2 weeks.

ArcGIS Dashboards

ArcGIS Dashboards
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BLADEMDA said:
Believe it or not in the majority of the USA (3/4) the answer will be yes in May 2020. For some areas May 04th for others May 18th.
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Yes to what? I don’t understand what you are saying? What are these dates? I’m fine with certain areas ending restrictions now if they go into that decision with a clear plan in place. The I-95 corridor in the Northeast, on the other hand, is a place that should remain shutdown until the curve trends downward. The social distancing in NY metro worked and probably prevented a humanitarian crisis unlike anything we’ve ever seen in this country.
 
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