There Be Basics WW 2021

[genny]

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for voting for you?

no for "hey guys, don't push sloth too hard, ok?"

 

[sunshinefl]

I definitely don’t mean to come off as increasing cryptic, I was trying to provide a read list of the full roaster but may have done so too prematurely as I’ve now dug myself, what seems like, a very large hole.

the bolded was about Genny.

 

[Aprilthearab]

I definitely don’t mean to come off as increasing cryptic, I was trying to provide a read list of the full roaster but may have done so too prematurely as I’ve now dug myself, what seems like, a very large hole.

That was about genny lol it's okay

 

[PhiloslothicalStudent]

That was about genny lol it's okay

I misread that my bad

 

[sunshinefl]

no for "hey guys, don't push sloth too hard, ok?"

nope more like "hey guys I have warned you across multiple games and dead chats that I don't agree with interrogating people into premature reads and that actually doesn't help the village."

 

[kraskadva]

@kraskadva @LaineyLou @DrRoRo @Acehunter123 @alleycat03 @Dinashadow

You've all been very quiet so far today. Any thoughts?

Slept late and woke up to **** that needed addressing. Catching up now

 

[Aprilthearab]

I definitely don’t mean to come off as increasing cryptic, I was trying to provide a read list of the full roaster but may have done so too prematurely as I’ve now dug myself, what seems like, a very large hole.

Also

Spoiler: Full roaster

 

[WildZoo]

roaster

 

[WildZoo]

Also

Spoiler: Full roaster

DAMMIT APRIL

 

[PhiloslothicalStudent]

I’m obviously still sleep deprived.

 

[genny]

nope more like "hey guys I have warned you across multiple games and dead chats that I don't agree with interrogating people into premature reads and that actually doesn't help the village."

are you going for the wolf merit badge? no questioning any reads D1 now?

 

[sunshinefl]

are you going for the wolf merit badge? no questioning any reads D1 now?

You can question things. I just don't think its helpful in general to be like "genny, give me all your reads!" "genny how do you have all those reads?" "genny how are you so confident in those reads?" "genny you didn't answer fast enough" "genny you are sus." You're creating a situation that is forcing them to dig in on things prematurely. As I stated it can make them throw out incorrect reads that others absorb, or cause others to read the person incorrectly. It's just a bad cycle.

 

[WildZoo]

You can question things. I just don't think its helpful in general to be like "genny, give me all your reads!" "genny how do you have all those reads?" "genny how are you so confident in those reads?" "genny you didn't answer fast enough" "genny you are sus." You're creating a situation that is forcing them to dig in on things prematurely. As I stated it can make them throw out incorrect reads that others absorb, or cause others to read the person incorrectly. It's just a bad cycle.

It's easy enough to say "I haven't formulated reads on so and so yet, but here's the reasoning or feels for the ones I have"

 

[WildZoo]

Like no one is forcing anyone to say anything untrue. If you don't have a read you don't have one. It's ok to say that.

 

[sunshinefl]

It's easy enough to say "I haven't formulated reads on so and so yet, but here's the reasoning or feels for the ones I have"

I mean that's what I would say. But others might feel more pressure. Goes back to the vet-noob dynamics and differences in personality. Sloth hasn't played every game since we both started together with Saturday morning cartoons.

 

[Zenge142]

Rereading the thread and revising reads is unsatisfactory? lol

Ya know? At first, I read what you'd posted about sleeping, getting some breakfast and coffee, re-reading the thread and reassessing your reads.

And I was all "Okay, that's reasonable." And then it sat there, in the air, like a fart in an elevator, and it occurred to me you didn't really answer the question.

As far as I can tell your stated reasoning for being willing to yeet April at a moments go is "you read the thread", and for Dina it's "she's been lurking".

I have to say, for being super basic questions of "why are you willing to yeet them suddenly" I don't really feel like you've given any insight to your thought process.

 

[Crayola227]

nope more like "hey guys I have warned you across multiple games and dead chats that I don't agree with interrogating people into premature reads and that actually doesn't help the village."

The pressure for reads is often where wolves slip up. Case in point Alley's defense of me in Breadsticks and April's reads on noobs in Emojis. Also Kras and WZ's approaches to reads in Emojis was suspect as well. It's a great place where they trip up. AM from what I can tell likes to see reads early on from me (and I can give snap reads with PbPa) because she uses them to read me.

I just felt I had to second Genny's eyeroll on the post by saying why the pressure for reads early and often is key.

 

[sunshinefl]

The pressure for reads is often where wolves slip up. Case in point Alley's defense of me in Breadsticks and April's reads on noobs in Emojis. Also Kras and WZ's approaches to reads in Emojis was suspect as well. It's a great place where they trip up. AM from what I can tell likes to see reads early on from me (and I can give snap reads with PbPa) because she uses them to read me.

I just felt I had to second Genny's eyeroll on the post by saying why the pressure for reads early and often is key.

Yes having a specific question or catching something is super helpful. Just pestering someone is not. It's not fun and doesn't help. Everyone can eyeroll if they want but I stand by this belief.

 

[Crayola227]

You can question things. I just don't think its helpful in general to be like "genny, give me all your reads!" "genny how do you have all those reads?" "genny how are you so confident in those reads?" "genny you didn't answer fast enough" "genny you are sus." You're creating a situation that is forcing them to dig in on things prematurely. As I stated it can make them throw out incorrect reads that others absorb, or cause others to read the person incorrectly. It's just a bad cycle.

It puts villagers at risk but it catches wolves. They are faking their thoughts and the pressure and a potential lack of thinking/strategy can really show.

Case in point me in Breadsticks.

What a wolf says about other people tells you who the wolfs is.

 

[PhiloslothicalStudent]

Village
AM
Alley
Cray
Sunshine

Weak Village
Zenge
VetSchools
Ace

Starting with these

Alley: seems to come off very village-like to me. I am going to keep her there until otherwise noted, more of the “innocent until proven guilty” tactic
AM: I usually always have AM as village due to how active they are, they are always actively wolf hunting, they haven’t said anything to set off any wolfy sense to me quite yet, I am also using an innocent until proven guilty tactic with them.
Cray: I have liked the feeling of pretty much all of her posts so far, even though she harped on my original vote for quite a while, her strategy seems village like
Sunshine: they seem to be actively wolf hunting and wanting to protect the village especially with her post recent posts, but I got this vibe from her even before

Weak Village:
I mostly have these guys in a pile together becasue they give me mostly village vibes I’m just not totally convinced yet, more in a separate category for me to keep an eye on, but not currently on my radar as being sus

Like no one is forcing anyone to say anything untrue. If you don't have a read you don't have one. It's ok to say that.

I usually feel quite a bit of pressure to give reads even if I’m not 100% confident in them, which I never really am, but pretty much in every single game I have played I have fallen into the pressure trap and then struggle with explainations, and every game people think I am wolfy

 

[sunshinefl]

It puts villagers at risk but it catches wolves. They are faking their thoughts and the pressure and a potential lack of thinking/strategy can really show.

This is what I was saying.

 

[genny]

Ya know? At first, I read what you'd posted about sleeping, getting some breakfast and coffee, re-reading the thread and reassessing your reads.

And I was all "Okay, that's reasonable." And then it sat there, in the air, like a fart in an elevator, and it occurred to me you didn't really answer the question.

As far as I can tell your stated reasoning for being willing to yeet April at a moments go is "you read the thread", and for Dina it's "she's been lurking".

I have to say, for being super basic questions of "why are you willing to yeet them suddenly" I don't really feel like you've given any insight to your thought process.

I never said anything about coffee. 🤔

So how do you interpret Ace's take on April?

And yes, it's totally valid to want to yeet Dina for lurking when that's part of her wolf meta.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Starting with these

Alley: seems to come off very village-like to me. I am going to keep her there until otherwise noted, more of the “innocent until proven guilty” tactic
AM: I usually always have AM as village due to how active they are, they are always actively wolf hunting, they haven’t said anything to set off any wolfy sense to me quite yet, I am also using an innocent until proven guilty tactic with them.
Cray: I have liked the feeling of pretty much all of her posts so far, even though she harped on my original vote for quite a while, her strategy seems village like
Sunshine: they seem to be actively wolf hunting and wanting to protect the village especially with her post recent posts, but I got this vibe from her even before

Weak Village:
I mostly have these guys in a pile together becasue they give me mostly village vibes I’m just not totally convinced yet, more in a separate category for me to keep an eye on, but not currently on my radar as being sus


I usually feel quite a bit of pressure to give reads even if I’m not 100% confident in them, which I never really am, but pretty much in every single game I have played I have fallen into the pressure trap and then struggle with explainations, and every game people think I am wolfy

Weren't Dina and Genny on your village list the first time? What happened? Now they're not on your village reads or leans at all.

 

[kraskadva]

I don't think we've heard anything at all from MsP yet (please correct me if I missed her posts) so I'm not sure if she's completely absent or what, but until she shows up I'm thinking that might be a mod kill for inactivity and not where I want to waste my vote.

Is a vote ever wasted? This feels wolfy

I think it's a move Sloth might be trying to capitalize on. Logically, having someone read you village means nothing about the reader's affiliation, but people tend to like to side with those who are reading them village.

Well it was working until everyone started calling it out lol

These made me

You could be right that what I'm analyzing is Sloth's normal gameplay and it is NAI. Personally, my "innocent until proven guilty" involves putting people in neutral as default until I have a reason not to. I feel like putting people into a village pile as default is dangerous because it can affect how others read those people, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and it can keep wolves safely hidden.

Same about Dina, she has barely posted and is square in my neutrals right now.

I kinda agree with this, but also

Besides the brief ones I posted earlier? Sure.

AM is doing the bare minimum to stay just on the village side of neutral. Cray sounds village. You sound village.

Vis hasn't been as aggressive as I'd expect for village. April's bf says she's wolfy. Dina seems awful lurky, which she has been in the past as a wolf.

Dubz isn't village, but good luck yeeting her if she's a wolf.

🤔

i can't type or count unofficial d1 yeet tally

April (3) - alleycat, Viscernable, Acehunter
AM ()
Dina ()
alleycat ()
DubZ (1) - kras
kras ()
Philosloth (1)- supershorty
MsP (2) - Dina, AM
Viscernable (3) - Crayola, DubZ, genny
supershorty (1) - DrRoRo
genny (1) - Zenge
ace (1)- schools

yeet close in ~5.5 hrs
missing April, Lainey, MsP, sloth, sunshine, visc

if i messed this one up i'm quitting trying to make these

I don't like the look of those wagons. While I get the sus of april, an entirely noob(-ish) wagon feels like a misyeet. Conversely, genny/cray/dubz all agreeing on Vis while sussing each other on thread feels like a setup

The lack of explanation from sloth, just a new list, and no answer to my question about how weak village vs strong village reads were determined is interesting.

indeed

i could do with a little less hard probing

or more

then it sat there, in the air, like a fart in an elevator

sir, I v much enjoy your sass, please carry on.

 

[kraskadva]

It started as a joke, but I think imma leave my vote where it is on dubz for now. There's something there.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Is a vote ever wasted? This feels wolfy

I don't see why not, and I don't see why that is AI. I feel like a vote is wasted if it's set on a person who hasn't even appeared as opposed to a top wolf read, for example.

 

[sunshinefl]

And yes, it's totally valid to want to yeet Dina for lurking when that's part of her wolf meta.

I've never seen her wolf before, but I initially wondered about that before with her last game. But then I settled in to my village read, which turned out correct. Also, what she said makes sense with IRL playing. Sometimes I'll be riding in the car (husband driving) and trying to catch up on the thread and reacting, then get home, take my dogs out, unload the groceries, whatever, finish my catchup and finally be able to post. Now someone could see my first reacts when I first got in the car, and then posting 2 hours later, and say a ha! A lurker! It's just how it is when you're playing asynchronous like this and fitting the game into your life. It's NAI to react and then post later.

 

[Crayola227]

This is what I was saying.

Well there's really no way to wolf hunt or vote that doesn't involve some villager risk.

 

[PhiloslothicalStudent]

Weren't Dina and Genny on your village list the first time? What happened? Now they're not on your village reads or leans at all.

I moved Genny back to neutrals because of her feuding with sunshine, it didn’t sit right with me
I also moved Dina since they voted for MsP, which just doesn’t seem very productive since they still haven’t commented anything

 

[Aprilthearab]

It started as a joke, but I think imma leave my vote where it is on dubz for now. There's something there.

Even after wolfing with Dubz, I still have a hard time reading her. Is there anything specific you've noticed?

 

[kraskadva]

I don't see why not, and I don't see why that is AI. I feel like a vote is wasted if it's set on a person who hasn't even appeared as opposed to a top wolf read, for example.

Fo sho, you should vote for your wolf reads, but even village deaths give info. Saying you don't want to waste it feels like you're trying to coordinate pack votes

 

[kaydubs]

****

Spoiler: A GIRLFRIEND NO LONGER

View attachment 329344

CONGRATULATIONS to you both!!!
****

 

[Zenge142]

I never said anything about coffee. 🤔

So how do you interpret Ace's take on April?

And yes, it's totally valid to want to yeet Dina for lurking when that's part of her wolf meta.

Sorry, I didn’t want to search for the post when I was typing and I just sort of assumed coffee was part of it.

My take on Ace is that it’s his first game and I didn’t really want to sheep a new player’s first read in the game, especially when I don’t personally see anything particularly wolfy about the person they’re voting to yeet.

Okay, I guess that’s fair enough about Dina, but being willing to outright yeet Dina, instead of just being sus of Dina and looking to build more of a case to yeet her seemed....rushed? Idk. It just felt wrong, but maybe I’m judging it too harshly for what essentially just amounts to “this is your play style”.

 

[kraskadva]

Even after wolfing with Dubz, I still have a hard time reading her. Is there anything specific you've noticed?

Tone, what she's choosing to respond to, feelz...
I need to go run errands, but remind me later and I'll try to pull quotes

 

[WildZoo]

I usually feel quite a bit of pressure to give reads even if I’m not 100% confident in them, which I never really am, but pretty much in every single game I have played I have fallen into the pressure trap and then struggle with explainations, and every game people think I am wolfy

Anyone who is 100% confident in their reads is either a seer or a wolf. But the game doesn't work if we don't question each other. If you're village, just try your best and be honest about your answers. Don't make up reads you don't believe in just because people are asking you about them, that only makes you look worse.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Fo sho, you should vote for your wolf reads, but even village deaths give info. Saying you don't want to waste it feels like you're trying to coordinate pack votes

I recognize village deaths give info, but I think that someone who hasn't posted a single time is going to offer the least amount of info besides reflecting on the people who yeeted them, but that info is given with any yeet vote.

 

[WildZoo]

Conversely, genny/cray/dubz all agreeing on Vis while sussing each other on thread feels like a setup

I'm not suspicious of cray, and genny voted after me, which I already called her out for

 

[PhiloslothicalStudent]

that only makes you look worse.

Which I am currently learning the hard way, all a part of the WW learning curve!

 

[supershorty]

I mean that's what I would say. But others might feel more pressure. Goes back to the vet-noob dynamics and differences in personality. Sloth hasn't played every game since we both started together with Saturday morning cartoons.

Most of the pressure on sloth is coming from me and April, so the vet-noob thing really doesn't apply here.

Your defense of sloth when there's been pressure to explain a large list, that changed quite significantly with minimal explanation, is interesting to me. Now, I know that I don't tend to read you well - I read you as wolfy when you're not, and I think some of it is just personality/play style differences, but since I'm currently reading sloth as wolfy, your posts telling us to lay off them are pinging my radar a little bit. I'd much rather see someone post what reads they have and feel some confidence in, rather than listing the entire roster (or close to it) and just throwing people into strong village with no justification this early in the game.

 

[sunshinefl]

Well there's really no way to wolf hunt or vote that doesn't involve some villager risk.

That's true, but you have to wolf hunt with some balance and care.

 

[Dinashadow]

I moved Genny back to neutrals because of her feuding with sunshine, it didn’t sit right with me
I also moved Dina since they voted for MsP, which just doesn’t seem very productive since they still haven’t commented anything

....but I've commented on it multiple times

Also thoughts on AM also voting for MsP?

 

[sunshinefl]

Most of the pressure on sloth is coming from me and April, so the vet-noob thing really doesn't apply here.

Your defense of sloth when there's been pressure to explain a large list, that changed quite significantly with minimal explanation, is interesting to me. Now, I know that I don't tend to read you well - I read you as wolfy when you're not, and I think some of it is just personality/play style differences, but since I'm currently reading sloth as wolfy, your posts telling us to lay off them are pinging my radar a little bit. I'd much rather see someone post what reads they have and feel some confidence in, rather than listing the entire roster (or close to it) and just throwing people into strong village with no justification this early in the game.

You are right, you don't read me well. And I have also noticed the personality/play style difference and have tried to set aside my implicit bias with you. Which makes it extra funny that you said the pressure is coming from you since all game I have been sitting here saying to myself that shorty is emulating AM, with whom I also have a personality/play style difference I try to set aside.

I am not telling anyone to lay off of Sloth specifically, I just don't find interrogation to be fun or productive.

 

[kaydubs]

It's Only Day 1 with Plenty to Choose From Yeet Tally

April (3) - alleycat, Viscernable, Acehunter
AM ()
Dina ()
alleycat ()
DubZ (1) - kras
kras ()
Philosloth (1) - supershorty
MsP (2) - Dina, AM
Viscernable (3) - Crayola, DubZ, genny
supershorty (1) - DrRoRo
genny (2) - Zenge, sunshinefl
Acehunter (1) - vetschools

14/18

Missing: @Ms Procrastinator @LaineyLou @Aprilthearab @PhiloslothicalStudent

Yeet/Vote closes at 10pm Eastern, TODAY, Saturday 2/6/2021 (~4 hours)

 

[Crayola227]

You are right, you don't read me well. And I have also noticed the personality/play style difference and have tried to set aside my implicit bias with you. Which makes it extra funny that you said the pressure is coming from you since all game I have been sitting here saying to myself that shorty is emulating AM, with whom I also have a personality/play style difference I try to set aside.

I am not telling anyone to lay off of Sloth specifically, I just don't find interrogation to be fun or productive.

So if we're not going to interrogate potential wolf candidates, how do you propose we flush out wolves on the thread? By saying please wolfy wolfy come here for a treat?

 

[Aprilthearab]

It's Only Day 1 with Plenty to Choose From Yeet Tally

April (3) - alleycat, Viscernable, Acehunter
AM ()
Dina ()
alleycat ()
DubZ (1) - kras
kras ()
Philosloth (1) - supershorty
MsP (1) - Dina, AM
Viscernable (3) - Crayola, DubZ, genny
supershorty (1) - DrRoRo
genny (2) - Zenge, sunshinefl
Acehunter (1) - vetschools

14/18

Missing: @Ms Procrastinator @LaineyLou @Aprilthearab @PhiloslothicalStudent

Yeet/Vote closes at 10pm Eastern, TODAY, Saturday 2/6/2021 (~4 hours)

MsP has two votes

 

[sunshinefl]

So if we're not going to interrogate potential wolf candidates, how do you propose we flush out wolves on the thread? By saying please wolfy wolfy come here for a treat?

sure why not? but seriously I chose interrogate as the verb very specifically. Ask, inquire, note, etc.

 

[kaydubs]

Speaking of, can I get a rules clarification on that? What happens with a mod kill regarding subs? It's my understanding Lawpy is currently subbing? Would Lawpy jump in to replace someone who gets mod killed, or would Lawpy only sub in if someone was like "Hi, realized I can't do this because of time, sorry, gotta bail!"?

@kaydubs but based on games we've modded together, the latter

I did state in signups that I’m not really taking subs for this game.

when subs and mod kills are mutually exclusive (which they likely are NOT in this game), then I will usually indicate in writeup that someone was mod killed. Subs are also usually indicated on thread and in writeup.

does that clarify, @Zenge142 ?

 

[Zenge142]

So if we're not going to interrogate potential wolf candidates, how do you propose we flush out wolves on the thread? By saying please wolfy wolfy come here for a treat?

I mean, you’re going to miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.

It’s worth a shot at least.

Woooooolfy!!! Come here for a treat!

And now we play the waiting game...

 

[Crayola227]

It isn't just how the person pressure responds. Maybe too much attention gets put there (case in point Zenge last game) but equally or even more important are the actions of the pressurers.

 

[kaydubs]

With that being said: POST MINIMUMS FOR PARTICIPATIONS ARE IN THE RULES!! In case any of the players who are missing so far are wondering