UVM vs. Hofstra

[fatmac]

Hey everyone!

I was lucky enough to already be accepted at my two top choices, UVM and Hofstra North Shore LIJ, and I am having some trouble deciding which one is the right fit for me. They seem to offer quite different styles of learning, and I was hoping to have some input while I am forming my decision. I think the most difficult part of my decision is deciding whether I want to go for a very new school with a PBL heavy curriculum (Hofstra), or stick with a school with a bit more of a reputation, and perhaps a bit more of the traditional teaching style (UVM). I am aware that UVM's integrated curriculum makes it less traditional than others, but it seems Hofstra is even more non-traditional. I should mention that I am Canadian, but a dual citizen, which makes me technically OOS everywhere.

UVM

Pros:
-Older school, established name
-Students seem very happy
-Curriculum seems to have a good balance of early patient exposure and learning style I'm used to
-Close to where I live and extended family (Montreal)
-Burlington is a super cool place (Weather is a non-issue for me, Canadian and in love with snow sports)

Cons:
-Expensive (58k or so since I'm OOS. I don't want finance to be a sole deciding factor but it does matter)
-H/P/F (Not sure if this is an actual Con, but compared to Hofstra which is a true P/F)
-Busier daily schedule, and less time to pursue research/ECs compared to Hofstra

Hofstra

Pros:
-Curriculum looks VERY fun, with lots of early clinical exposure
-True P/F
-Great residency match in their first year
-Near NYC, I'm used to living in a big city and my sister lives there
-Cheaper (47,5k a year, and there seems to be more financial aid options through this school)
-HUGE hospital network

Cons:
-Untested. Residency match looks good in the first year, but they likely selected the best of the best for their inaugural class, and this would expectedly decline in years to come
-Long Island is kind of meh, higher cost of living than Burlington
-Less powder to play in
-School is still being built up, and I might not see the new facilities that they are hoping to build during my 4 years

Thanks in advance! Would love to hear what everyone thinks.

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[Goro]

I'll make it simple for you: cheese or deli+ NY pizza?

 

[Slave to the Game]

Hofstra sounds like the better choice. You already like their curriculum better, fan of their match list, true P/F (still AOA), cheaper, larger network. Your only real cons are whether Hofstra's match list was a fluke, but that shouldn't be a big concern. It just shows that their school can provide all of the resources a student needs to match well.

 

[IlyaR]

Dude, Burlington has awesome beer

 

[Ostallopathic]

UVM is the more established school, so I would go with that. Plus it's closer to family.

 

[IlyaR]

I'll make it simple for you: cheese or deli+ NY pizza?

I'd say Heady Topper vs bagels

 

[Gibbward]

Dude, Burlington has awesome beer

You mean Magic Hat? I'd take Brooklyn Brand over that any day.

 

[IlyaR]

You mean Magic Hat? I'd take Brooklyn Brand over that any day.

Eh I dunno. I live in Brooklyn and I've been to the brewery, but meh

Should try magic hat however

 

[lucin]

Among the med schools, there are a handful of plums. All other medical schools are the same.

 

[RaspberrySlushy]

In this case, I don't think $ should be a big factor. I wouldn't usually say that but it's not a huge difference to begin with and the school w/the lower tuition cones with a greater cost of living, so in the end, I don't think it's a big enough difference to be a critical factor of consideration.

 

[theguardsman]

Among the med schools, there are a handful of plums. All other medical schools are the same.

Do you mean lemons??

 

[Slave to the Game]

Do you mean lemons??

If he's talking about US MD schools, I'd like to know which ones are the purported "plums"/lemons.

 

[deleted718115]

Pick the one closer to family & cheaper.

 

[occams_razor]

Pick the one closer to family & cheaper.

In OP's case UVM is closer to family. It is also older. But Hofstra is about 10k cheaper per year: although Long Island is very expensive/high cost of living compared to Vermont. It's a tough decision

 

[rocklobstr]

You mean Magic Hat? I'd take Brooklyn Brand over that any day.

Burlington also has the The Alchemist, zero gravity, switchback, and the Burlington beer company, among others

 

[fatmac]

It seems like everyone has summed up my sentiments quite well. As occams_razor mentioned, my dilemma is that Burlington is closer to my Montreal family, while Hofstra is cheaper. Hofstra isn't completely remote however, as my sister lives in Manhattan. Burlington seems to be a better city for me to live in, but at a greater cost of tuition, however this might be made up for by cheaper living expenses compared to Long Island. Hofstra seems to offer a cooler curriculum, but until I personally experience it, it's difficult for me to gauge how cool it is. Of course, speaking to students at both schools, the responses are ubiquitously positive, so it's hard to make a comparison on that front as well.

 

[PhillyMed777]

It seems like everyone has summed up my sentiments quite well. As occams_razor mentioned, my dilemma is that Burlington is closer to my Montreal family, while Hofstra is cheaper. Hofstra isn't completely remote however, as my sister lives in Manhattan. Burlington seems to be a better city for me to live in, but at a greater cost of tuition, however this might be made up for by cheaper living expenses compared to Long Island. Hofstra seems to offer a cooler curriculum, but until I personally experience it, it's difficult for me to gauge how cool it is. Of course, speaking to students at both schools, the responses are ubiquitously positive, so it's hard to make a comparison on that front as well.

If its 10k per year savings, that really isn't huge.
What do you mean by Hofstra has a "cool curriculum"?

 

[theguardsman]

It seems like everyone has summed up my sentiments quite well. As occams_razor mentioned, my dilemma is that Burlington is closer to my Montreal family, while Hofstra is cheaper. Hofstra isn't completely remote however, as my sister lives in Manhattan. Burlington seems to be a better city for me to live in, but at a greater cost of tuition, however this might be made up for by cheaper living expenses compared to Long Island. Hofstra seems to offer a cooler curriculum, but until I personally experience it, it's difficult for me to gauge how cool it is. Of course, speaking to students at both schools, the responses are ubiquitously positive, so it's hard to make a comparison on that front as well.

Rather than talking abstractly about money, I would do some calculations and see what the actual figures are.

 

[claduva94]

And no one has mentioned Ben and Jerry's...

 

[fatmac]

If its 10k per year savings, that really isn't huge.
What do you mean by Hofstra has a "cool curriculum"?

Sorry that was a bit vague. Hofstra has a lot more of Problem Based Learning, and a lot less time spent in the classroom. The examinations are all essay based, and quite infrequent (some students have told me they are tested as little as once every 3 months), and a ton of early clinical exposure. Vermont gets into early clinical exposure as well, but not to the same extent as Hofstra. I said it's cool because Hofstra has a lot less class time by using the PBL style, and as a result students are able to do gain clinical experience right from the get-go. That being said, it's hard for me to evaluate, as I haven't actually tried it out yet, so maybe heavier lecture style learning (like Vermont) would be a good fit for me as well.

 

[Cotterpin]

The important thing here is that I have an interview at Hofstra coming up, so OP should choose UVM so my chances are better.

 

[fatmac]

The important thing here is that I have an interview at Hofstra coming up, so OP should choose UVM so my chances are better.

Good luck! Word of advice: don't be rattled if one of your two interviewers is tough on you. Seems to be a common thing that they do on interview day.

 

[hunterjumper14]

Sorry that was a bit vague. Hofstra has a lot more of Problem Based Learning, and a lot less time spent in the classroom. The examinations are all essay based, and quite infrequent (some students have told me they are tested as little as once every 3 months), and a ton of early clinical exposure. Vermont gets into early clinical exposure as well, but not to the same extent as Hofstra. I said it's cool because Hofstra has a lot less class time by using the PBL style, and as a result students are able to do gain clinical experience right from the get-go. That being said, it's hard for me to evaluate, as I haven't actually tried it out yet, so maybe heavier lecture style learning (like Vermont) would be a good fit for me as well.

That would make me nervous. Keep in mind that the tests you take as an MS1, MS2 should be preparing you to take step 1. Testing is a pain, but it seres a purpose when we are all judged based on USMLE scores. You don't want to feel rusty in the test-taking department when you get to the end of MS2. That being said, I don't know a lot about the curriculum at Hofstra, so perhaps they have alternative ways of preparing students. My vote is for UVM. It's more established, and I've lived in VT (it's hard to beat!!). Quality of life is very important!

 

[fatmac]

That would make me nervous. Keep in mind that the tests you take as an MS1, MS2 should be preparing you to take step 1. Testing is a pain, but it seres a purpose when we are all judged based on USMLE scores. You don't want to feel rusty in the test-taking department when you get to the end of MS2. That being said, I don't know a lot about the curriculum at Hofstra, so perhaps they have alternative ways of preparing students. My vote is for UVM. It's more established, and I've lived in VT (it's hard to beat!!). Quality of life is very important!

That was my same hesitation. It seems that Hofstra still did well on the Step 1 in their first few classes, although every school I interviewed at claimed to be "above the national average," so I don't know who to believe.

 

[deleted718115]

Sorry that was a bit vague. Hofstra has a lot more of Problem Based Learning, and a lot less time spent in the classroom. The examinations are all essay based, and quite infrequent (some students have told me they are tested as little as once every 3 months), and a ton of early clinical exposure. Vermont gets into early clinical exposure as well, but not to the same extent as Hofstra. I said it's cool because Hofstra has a lot less class time by using the PBL style, and as a result students are able to do gain clinical experience right from the get-go. That being said, it's hard for me to evaluate, as I haven't actually tried it out yet, so maybe heavier lecture style learning (like Vermont) would be a good fit for me as well.

In this case, choose the school that has the curriculum that fits your learning style better!

 

[fatmac]

Rather than talking abstractly about money, I would do some calculations and see what the actual figures are.

That's a good point. According to the full cost of attendance provided by both schools, (i.e. rent, food, and other miscellaneous expenses), Hofstra comes out to a grand total of ~307k over four years, while Vermont comes out to ~319k over four years. So really not a big difference when accounting for things beyond tuition.

 

[Affiche]

That's a good point. According to the full cost of attendance provided by both schools, (i.e. rent, food, and other miscellaneous expenses), Hofstra comes out to a grand total of ~307k over four years, while Vermont comes out to ~319k over four years. So really not a big difference when accounting for things beyond tuition.

I'm one of the cheapest bastards on this forum and those numbers aren't enough to convince me that Hofstra is a better option.

My vote is for UVM. The students there are happy, it's in a great location and you don't have to worry about an experimental curriculum. Nothing against Hofstra, but I personally tend to stay away from the newer or less traditional curriculums. Also essay-based exams makes me frown.

 

[Ismet]

Moving to SSD forum

 

[Gibbward]

Burlington also has the The Alchemist, zero gravity, switchback, and the Burlington beer company, among others

I have not heard The Alchemist until now, but I will admit their beer selection sounds like it'll blow Brooklyn Brand and Sixpoint out of the water.... Beer points to UVM then!

 

[fatmac]

Is there anyone on this thread who is a current student at UVM, and could comment on what the curriculum/teaching style is like?

 

[claduva94]

Is there anyone on this thread who is a current student at UVM, and could comment on what the curriculum/teaching style is like?

@womanofscience

 

[womanofscience]

@womanofscience

@fatmac
The teaching style is dependent on which course you are in. Foundations of Medicine (FoM) is more lecture-heavy with TBL, Ethics, and small group sessions sprinkled throughout. Human Structure and Function (HSF) is much more independent with maybe one or two lectures per day. The majority of learning is done through team-based activities in anatomy lab and in histology lab. HSF is very dependent on an independent learning style- you get back what you put in.

I do like the curriculum and I am glad that it has a balanced lecture/small group split.

I think you should sit on this decision a little longer. Are you planning on attending second looks? Have you talked to current students? Take your time with it- mull it over. Think about where you felt you fit best.

(I'd also like to mention that UVM COA has a lot of wiggle room. They allot $3000 for travel and $2500 for miscellaneous expenses.)

 

[fatmac]

@fatmac
The teaching style is dependent on which course you are in. Foundations of Medicine (FoM) is more lecture-heavy with TBL, Ethics, and small group sessions sprinkled throughout. Human Structure and Function (HSF) is much more independent with maybe one or two lectures per day. The majority of learning is done through team-based activities in anatomy lab and in histology lab. HSF is very dependent on an independent learning style- you get back what you put in.

I do like the curriculum and I am glad that it has a balanced lecture/small group split.

I think you should sit on this decision a little longer. Are you planning on attending second looks? Have you talked to current students? Take your time with it- mull it over. Think about where you felt you fit best.

(I'd also like to mention that UVM COA has a lot of wiggle room. They allot $3000 for travel and $2500 for miscellaneous expenses.)

Thanks for your reply. I am certainly taking much longer to make my decision, as I have until the end of April to pick one of the schools, and I do also plan on taking a second look. Although I felt very good at both schools, I am eager to see how I feel without interview anxiety influencing how I feel during my visit. I have talked to current students, although I have found some difficulty with that because all of the ambassadors whose contact information I was given on interview day are, maybe unsurprisingly, all quite positive about their own school.

Another step that I am waiting on is filing FAFSA, which I can't do until January, and after that is done, I will hear from Hofstra about what financial aid/scholarship money I am eligible to receive. From the sound of it, quite a lot (55% according to the financial aid officer) of students get scholarship money. Again, I don't want finances to be the driving force in my decision, but it is another thing to consider.

 

[womanofscience]

Thanks for your reply. I am certainly taking much longer to make my decision, as I have until the end of April to pick one of the schools, and I do also plan on taking a second look. Although I felt very good at both schools, I am eager to see how I feel without interview anxiety influencing how I feel during my visit. I have talked to current students, although I have found some difficulty with that because all of the ambassadors whose contact information I was given on interview day are, maybe unsurprisingly, all quite positive about their own school.

Another step that I am waiting on is filing FAFSA, which I can't do until January, and after that is done, I will hear from Hofstra about what financial aid/scholarship money I am eligible to receive. From the sound of it, quite a lot (55% according to the financial aid officer) of students get scholarship money. Again, I don't want finances to be the driving force in my decision, but it is another thing to consider.

I can feel you there! I narrowed it down to two schools and did not decide until April 29. I probably wouldn't have attended UVM without the scholarship because the debt load was extremely daunting so I can appreciate and respect your concerns. Start looking at outside scholarships as well to cut down costs as much as possible!