When are Med students getting covid vaccine?

[readmypostsMD]

Thoughts?

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[Skarl]

I posted a thread on this a few weeks back when initial analysis data were released for Pfizer, Moderna. Despite the prevailing SDN and echo chamber sentiment that med students would NOT be prioritized, my school at least has informed us that medical students would be prioritized with other healthcare workers in the 1A phase, with clinical students before pre-clinical. And the decision makes sense considering the presence of students in the hospital being a potential source of infection, of students and patients.

 

[Lawpy]

I posted a thread on this a few weeks back when initial analysis data were released for Pfizer, Moderna. Despite the prevailing SDN and echo chamber sentiment that med students would NOT be prioritized, my school at least has informed us that medical students would be prioritized with other healthcare workers in the 1A phase, with clinical students before pre-clinical. And the decision makes sense considering the presence of students in the hospital being a potential source of infection, of students and patients.

Reality contradicts SDN many many times so this is no surprise.

 

[calivianya]

As early as next week. I’m a third year and they’ve decided to vaccinate all the staff (including us) in waves because of the severity of the reactions being seen in the UK, so that if we have bad reactions, we’re not all out at the same time. Vaccinations start next week at my facility. No idea when I’m getting it personally.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

We’re supposedly in the 1a phase here so hopefully soon.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

If a med school prioritizes pre-clinical students in their first round it’s a gross misutilization of resources.

 

[DrRiker]

I posted a thread on this a few weeks back when initial analysis data were released for Pfizer, Moderna. Despite the prevailing SDN and echo chamber sentiment that med students would NOT be prioritized, my school at least has informed us that medical students would be prioritized with other healthcare workers in the 1A phase, with clinical students before pre-clinical. And the decision makes sense considering the presence of students in the hospital being a potential source of infection, of students and patients.

Will medical students be prioritized in coronavirus vaccine distribution?

With recent news of Pfizer's vaccine showing promising data in first analysis, the question of vaccine distribution has become increasingly relevant. Frontline healthcare workers and at risk populations will obviously receive initial doses, but where do medical students fall in the queue...

forums.studentdoctor.net

I'm not surprised and I think that other schools will follow suit. Regardless of whether vaccinating students is a misutilization of resources from a patient care perspective, having unvaccinated students in the wards is a liability. Med students will be vaccinated as soon as hospitals have enough vaccines for their patient care staff.

 

[7331poas]

We are the very last of all the clinical staff.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

My school has cancelled all clinical activities for M1/M2, so I assume that means we are pushed to the back. M3/M4s will be getting it in the first wave though.

 

[Yankee845]

The real question is-how long will it take for the vaccine to be recalled after it either doesn’t work or it causes adverse effects in the few people who have already gotten it

 

[NicMouse64]

The real question is-how long will it take for the vaccine to be recalled after it either doesn’t work or it causes adverse effects in the few people who have already gotten it

Never. Got any more trolling you would like to do?

 

[ohmanwaddup]

The real question is-how long will it take for the vaccine to be recalled after it either doesn’t work or it causes adverse effects in the few people who have already gotten it

In my head cannon every who got covid will die when they get the vaccine.

Obviously this is absurd though. This vaccine is on par with the moon landing in showing what can be accomplished when governments make science a legit priority.

 

[Yankee845]

In my head cannon every who got covid will die when they get the vaccine.

Obviously this is absurd though. This vaccine is on par with the moon landing in showing what can be accomplished when governments make science a legit priority.

Just saying-it takes a lot more than a couple of months to a year to develop a new vaccination that is effective and safe to use in mass quantities. There is also nothing wrong with casting doubt on something that has a 50/50 chance of even working at all

 

[Westcoaststudent95]

Just saying-it takes a lot more than a couple of months to a year to develop a new vaccination that is effective and safe to use in mass quantities. There is also nothing wrong with casting doubt on something that has a 50/50 working at all

"Has a 50/50 working at all" Lol do you have a source for that or do you just enjoy making things up in your free time?

 

[Yankee845]

"Has a 50/50 working at all" Lol do you have a source for that or do you just enjoy making things up in your free time?

Dr. Anthony Fauci says there's a chance coronavirus vaccine may not provide immunity for very long

If Covid-19 acts like other coronaviruses, "it likely isn't going to be a long duration of immunity," Dr. Fauci warns.

www.cnbc.com

A few months old but relevant nonetheless.

Note this line too:
"It’s a record-breaking time frame for a process that normally takes about a decade for an effective and safe vaccine. The fastest-ever vaccine development, mumps, took more than four years and was licensed in 1967."

Just because the 21st century is not used to being in the midst of a pandemic, does not change the dynamics of effectively creating a vaccine from scratch nor the reality that millions upon millions of doses of a rushed product may end up not doing as much good as the media suggests.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

"Has a 50/50 working at all" Lol do you have a source for that or do you just enjoy making things up in your free time?

well since it seems like 50% of Americans wont take it, technically he is right

 

[Angus Avagadro]

The vaccine is not nearly as important as a therapeutic. Regeneron's polyclonal antibody therapy may be the game changer. A reminder that there is no AIDS vaccine after nearly 30 yrs. Yet Magic Johnson is doing very well after all these years on therapeutics.

 

[Lawpy]

The vaccine is not nearly as important as a therapeutic. Regeneron's polyclonal antibody therapy may be the game changer. A reminder that there is no AIDS vaccine after nearly 30 yrs. Yet Magic Johnson is doing very well after all these years on therapeutics.

How? It looks like steroids are doing the heavy lifting here for hospitalized and severely ill covid patients. Lots of evidence for vitamin D being effective for early covid stages. I'm not sure what antibodies are doing that makes it different from things like remdesivir

 

[ciestar]

How? It looks like steroids are doing the heavy lifting here for hospitalized and severely ill covid patients. Lots of evidence for vitamin D being effective for early covid stages. I'm not sure what antibodies are doing that makes it different from things like remdesivir

Many pulmonologists i work with arent convinced remdes does a ton. Steroids are the money.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Many pulmonologists i work with arent convinced remdes does a ton. Steroids are the money.

I think the NEJM had a article showing Remdes basically did nothing. Could be misremembering though

 

[Lawpy]

Many pulmonologists i work with arent convinced remdes does a ton. Steroids are the money.

What did they think about the Regeneron/Eli Lilly antibodies?

 

[Med Ed]

The vaccine is not nearly as important as a therapeutic.

Wut. An ounce of prevention is always preferable to a pound of therapeutic.

A reminder that there is no AIDS vaccine after nearly 30 yrs. Yet Magic Johnson is doing very well after all these years on therapeutics.

And yet there are effective vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, Haemophilus influenza type b, pertussis, rotavirus, polio, pneumococcus, varicella, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, meningococcus, and tetanus.

HIV has been impossible to crack for a number of reasons, primarily because there is no known natural protective immune response to the virus. That's not the case with COVID.

 

[ciestar]

What did they think about the Regeneron/Eli Lilly antibodies?

They see promise in it

 

[Med Ed]

Dr. Anthony Fauci says there's a chance coronavirus vaccine may not provide immunity for very long

If Covid-19 acts like other coronaviruses, "it likely isn't going to be a long duration of immunity," Dr. Fauci warns.

www.cnbc.com

A few months old but relevant nonetheless.

Six months ago Dr. Fauci was trying to temper expectations. We now have real data that indicate some, if not all, of the vaccines developed thus far are efficacious with no observed decline in conferred immunity. I would say this article has transitioned out of relevance.

Note this line too:
"It’s a record-breaking time frame for a process that normally takes about a decade for an effective and safe vaccine. The fastest-ever vaccine development, mumps, took more than four years and was licensed in 1967."

Just because the 21st century is not used to being in the midst of a pandemic, does not change the dynamics of effectively creating a vaccine from scratch nor the reality that millions upon millions of doses of a rushed product may end up not doing as much good as the media suggests.

1967 was over half a century ago.

If hundreds of millions of doses of effective vaccine are administered it will do an immense amount of good. It doesn't take "the media" to translate any of this.

 

[Lawpy]

They see promise in it

Ok that's surprising. I thought they were similar to remdesivir but guess not.

 

[Westcoaststudent95]

Dr. Anthony Fauci says there's a chance coronavirus vaccine may not provide immunity for very long

If Covid-19 acts like other coronaviruses, "it likely isn't going to be a long duration of immunity," Dr. Fauci warns.

www.cnbc.com

A few months old but relevant nonetheless.

Note this line too:
"It’s a record-breaking time frame for a process that normally takes about a decade for an effective and safe vaccine. The fastest-ever vaccine development, mumps, took more than four years and was licensed in 1967."

Just because the 21st century is not used to being in the midst of a pandemic, does not change the dynamics of effectively creating a vaccine from scratch nor the reality that millions upon millions of doses of a rushed product may end up not doing as much good as the media suggests.

"Relevant nonetheless" Not really though? Having read through that article, there isn't anywhere that mentions a "50/50 chance" so that just kinda feels like you pulled numbers out of nowhere to seem controversial. It's just an article where Dr. Fauci mentions that he feels "cautiously optimistic" about the future vaccine. Well guess what, it's now the future and we have that vaccine. And Dr. Fauci himself says that "we're confident that it's safe and that it is certainly very efficacious". I'm not saying Dr. Fauci is the definitive source for all things vaccine related, but if you pulled him up as a source then I think it's fair to show how he feels as of now, not as of 6 months ago.

 

[Med Ed]

My country (Ireland) seems to be taking a wait and see approach. Use the UK as guinea pigs and if they randomly start getting random PEs or something we obviously won't invest. I remember someone presenting a study that concluded antibodies to covid-19 result in a more severe illness when they were inevitably reinfected. The old professor/doctor exclaimed "They will publish anything during a time of crisis" in criticism. Anyway, what was the question again?

How many times can you use some permutation of the word "random" in a sentence?

 

[DrRiker]

Ok that's surprising. I thought they were similar to remdesivir but guess not.

Isn't the idea that regeneron is most effective if COVID is caught early, before diffuse viral replication takes place? I'm not well read on COVID at all, just asking for curiosity.

 

[Lawpy]

Isn't the idea that regeneron is most effective if COVID is caught early, before diffuse viral replication takes place? I'm not well read on COVID at all, just asking for curiosity.

That's the idea which makes it confusing because vitamin D works just as well and is a lot cheaper and more readily available.

 

[ciestar]

Ok that's surprising. I thought they were similar to remdesivir but guess not.

Keep in mind n=2 lol
More subjects and data itself is required.

 

[Yankee845]

"Relevant nonetheless" Not really though? Having read through that article, there isn't anywhere that mentions a "50/50 chance" so that just kinda feels like you pulled numbers out of nowhere to seem controversial. It's just an article where Dr. Fauci mentions that he feels "cautiously optimistic" about the future vaccine. Well guess what, it's now the future and we have that vaccine. And Dr. Fauci himself says that "we're confident that it's safe and that it is certainly very efficacious". I'm not saying Dr. Fauci is the definitive source for all things vaccine related, but if you pulled him up as a source then I think it's fair to show how he feels as of now, not as of 6 months

Why are you being so temperamental acting as if you are the one who personally developed the vaccine I am casting the slightest amount of doubt on?

There are other sources by the way that question the efficacy of a vaccine developed in such a short time frame. If you are a medical student, I am sure you know that vaccine trials take years to implement and ensure that the final product does not come with any adverse effects that can be catastrophic in a situation like this where they are literally expecting the entire planet to receive doses. Not to mention the unthinkable amount of money that could be wasted if the vaccine proves to be ineffective.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

How? It looks like steroids are doing the heavy lifting here for hospitalized and severely ill covid patients. Lots of evidence for vitamin D being effective for early covid stages. I'm not sure what antibodies are doing that makes it different from things like remdesivir

I believe the antibodies coat the virus, filling up the gaps between the spikes. This prevents the spikes from attaching to the cell. How it was explained to me.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Wut. An ounce of prevention is always preferable to a pound of therapeutic.


And yet there are effective vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, Haemophilus influenza type b, pertussis, rotavirus, polio, pneumococcus, varicella, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, meningococcus, and tetanus.

HIV has been impossible to crack for a number of reasons, primarily because there is no known natural protective immune response to the virus. That's not the case with COVID.

You are right. I could have framed that better. I was just pointing out that Aids survival has improved dramatically due to therapeutics and not by a vaccine. I wasn't trying to say vaccines weren't important. I stand corrected.

 

[NicMouse64]

So have any med students at any schools been offered the vaccine? we got an initial email about a week ago but since then....*crickets*.

 

[Med Ed]

There are other sources by the way that question the efficacy of a vaccine developed in such a short time frame. If you are a medical student, I am sure you know that vaccine trials take years to implement and ensure that the final product does not come with any adverse effects that can be catastrophic in a situation like this where they are literally expecting the entire planet to receive doses. Not to mention the unthinkable amount of money that could be wasted if the vaccine proves to be ineffective.

In case you haven't noticed, we are already in a catastrophic situation, both in terms of illness/death and negative economic impact.

The COVID vaccines have been developed quickly for a number of reasons:
1. Decades of research on other coronaviruses (this was huge, as the basic virology was already worked out)
2. New technology - after the first recognized cases in Wuhan it took only 10 days to sequence the viral genome, HIV-1 wasn't fully sequenced until 2009
3. Nearly unprecedented global cooperation between scientists, companies, and governments
4. No financial constraints
5. Clinical trials that combined Phases 2 and 3

 

[Kardio]

The real question is-how long will it take for the vaccine to be recalled after it either doesn’t work or it causes adverse effects in the few people who have already gotten it

Just saying-it takes a lot more than a couple of months to a year to develop a new vaccination that is effective and safe to use in mass quantities. There is also nothing wrong with casting doubt on something that has a 50/50 chance of even working at all

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being skeptical, or even pessimistic, about the long term efficacy of the new vaccines. It’s interesting, though, that you’re willing to go back 6 months in time (i.e., halfway between today and the start of the pandemic) to appeal to authority when it matches your perspective but ignore much more recent quotes from the same authority figure when sharing your opinion.

well since it seems like 50% of Americans wont take it, technically he is right

Many people are vaccine-hesitant. This is, in part, because of @Yankee845 ‘s point about the product being ‘rushed.’ The % of vaccine-hesitant people will change as these folks meet others who are vaccinated and grow more comfortable with it.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

As Med Ed more eloquently said, the speed that the vaccine was developed is not really the issue. That it took 4 years to develop a vaccine in 1967 and only 1 year now isn't surprising -- we're better / faster at this stuff. Lots of things took longer in 1967.

We know some facts quite clearly:

• These vaccines work in the short term. Unless you want to suggest that all the data is fake,
• This illness can be quite severe. Early fatality rates appeared to be 1/1000. That seems improved now. But other long term complications are possible -- cardiomyopathy, POTS, severe fatigue, etc. How likely these are is unknown.
• Almost certainly, someone will die of anaphylaxis to the vaccine if we give out enough doses. I expect this will be quite rare, but we will see.
• EDIT: Some people will get sick after getting the vaccine. Whether their illness is related to the vaccine, or just random, will be very difficult to tell. But anyone who becomes seriously ill after getting the vaccine is likely to blame it for their problems.

Are there unknowns about these vaccines? Sure:

• Do they work in the long term, and how long does immunity last? Unknown
• Infection with COVID-19 after vaccination / immunity wanes causes more serious illness? Possible, all speculation
• Infection with COVID-19 after vaccination / immunity wanes causes less serious illness so that repeat vaccination isn't needed? Possible, all speculation
• The vaccine has some long term toxicity / complication which we are unaware of? Possible / speculation

Personally, I think the known risk of a bad outcome from a COVID-19 infection is well worth the unknown, and probably very low, risk of some bad outcome from the vaccine. The data that any current non-COVID vaccine actually causes harm is quite weak (ignoring the mess with the inactivated polio vaccine that wasn't actually inactivated and instead infected a bunch of people). When I "calculate" the risk of a bad outcome from a COVID-19 infection, I include the chance that I get very ill plus the chance that I infect someone else who gets very ill -- that's my decision, others may appropriately decide otherwise. But if I didn't get vaccinated, got infected somewhere, infected my wife, and she died -- I'd feel pretty bad about that.

When people say that they don't want the vaccine because it was developed "too quickly" -- that makes no sense. But if what they actually mean is that it hasn't been tested for a long enough period of time to ensure that there isn't some late complication, that could be seen as a reasonable concern. I wouldn't fault someone for declining for that reason -- it's not the choice I'd make, though.

In the end, the difficult issue here is that this is really a population decision / issue. Whether or not any individual actually gets a vaccine or not won't really matter to them. If they don't get the vaccine and they get infected, they will most likely be fine (at least 99% of the time). If they do get the vaccine they are most likely going to be fine. So, in the end, it doesn't matter to them. But if we want to prevent the uncommon COVID outcomes (severe illness and death, cardiomyopathy, etc) then we need to vaccinate the population since we can't really tell whom will get the severe disease.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I took the vaccine today. M3-4s are A1 here too. The students are all set to be getting their shot in January after the holiday.

There are risks. It’s scary. No one will be forced to get it. But let me tell you, when you’re really, really facing down the barrel of covid - hands on patients them when you know it’s gonna get your stethoscope all COVIDy - it changes your opinions.

My opinion is no healthcare worker signed up to fight covid, no one should be mandated to vaccinate, or forced to treat covid pts if they don’t want. But this is a war and if you want to go to the front lines, you’d better arm yourself.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Clerkship students here are in first wave. My class starts clerkship in a month and will get them at our first rotation sites.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

My school did a 180 and now says we are at the mercy of our core sites on with we get the vaccine, but we are not allowed to ask when we might get it

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Anyone think away sites might not let us rotate without a covid vaccine?

 

[NicMouse64]

My school did a 180 and now says we are at the mercy of our core sites on with we get the vaccine, but we are not allowed to ask when we might get it

Our school basically said the same "we don't have any vaccines". It's so maddening how much money our schools make but how little they give a f*** about giving us protection.

 

[ciestar]

Anyone think away sites might not let us rotate without a covid vaccine?

My program isn’t even requiring it so i would that won’t happen.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Anyone think away sites might not let us rotate without a covid vaccine?

Considering the EUA and it being voluntary, I doubt it.

 

[ciestar]

Got it today but i’m feeling pretty crummy tonight. Half convinced I have COVID of course. Ive seen so much of it the past two months

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Got it today but i’m feeling pretty crummy tonight. Half convinced I have COVID of course. Ive seen so much of it the past two months

A fire fighter friend of mine said a few people at his house felt pretty ****ty the night of and the next day, including some fevers. It went away after a day.

 

[ciestar]

A fire fighter friend of mine said a few people at his house felt pretty ****ty the night of and the next day, including some fevers. It went away after a day.

Yeah this is why i got it on a friday so i can die on the weekend lol

 

[Captain_Falcon]

Yeah this is why i got it on a friday so i can die on the weekend lol

Keep us updated! Feel better

 

[odyssey2]

I was in the Pfizer trial and they’re offering vaccines now to people who got placebo, so I got mine this week. My med school doesn’t seem anywhere close to offering vaccines to the students though.

 

[stickgirl390]

Students are being included in the first wave at my program, but were in “group 3” of that first wave. So far our hospital only received enough vaccines for group 1.