supershorty
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Can you explain TME's position?
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Here I am feeling bad that I haven’t checked the thread yet this morning and I’m DED????? RUDE WOLVES!!!
Go village 🥳🥳
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Here I am feeling bad that I haven’t checked the thread yet this morning and I’m DED????? RUDE WOLVES!!!
Go village 🥳🥳
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I think I'm leaning to a Mel/Cubs pack or an April/Cubs pack.
Which probably leads my vote to Cubs.
Cubs, anything else you want to add to the discussion?
Which probably leads my vote to Cubs.
Cubs, anything else you want to add to the discussion?
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I actually agree that Mel is starting to give me feels, it’s cycle 3 and he hasn’t thrown any shade at all my way. Highly unusual. Which is troubling since we both are reading you the same way.
I'm revising my Mel read in light of AM's lean.
The two reads Mel had I thought were strange that I hinted at earlier was myself and Cubs in village leans.
Otherwise his list seems either like village consensus or reasonable (SP and MsP for example are player pretty much anyone any game can put in their POE without it looking too weird.)
The two reads Mel had I thought were strange that I hinted at earlier was myself and Cubs in village leans.
Otherwise his list seems either like village consensus or reasonable (SP and MsP for example are player pretty much anyone any game can put in their POE without it looking too weird.)
I mean, he did throw that very minor shade at you for all of five seconds, but walked it back and actually turned it into a village read once you asked him about it, which is even weirder.
@TelemarketingEnigma how are you reading Cubs, Mel, and Cray?
Yes. You’re extremely off base. But once a Cubs wagon gets going…. Hard to stop it!
Out of curiosity, how did you come up with these pairings?
It was a hypothetical to compare bussing scenarios. And I already told you. I second guess myself and then I can’t ever just go with my original thought for some reason. That is an absolute Cubs meta, you can research that for days.
Here are all of TME's mentions of/interactions with Mel
###vote mel###
Here are all of Mel's mentions of/interactions with TME (searched by TME, TE, tele, and enigma to make sure I got every abbreviation)
Reads list from least to most wolfy:
And this isn't a direct interaction or mention, but he didn't answer Cubs's question, which to be fair sounded rhetorical but I wanted to include it:
TME and Mel are highly compatible. Neither of them have had any direct interactions, and when the other is mentioned which is rare, it's never incriminating or defensive.
I kind of hate reveals and such, and typically take night results with me to the grave that I shouldn't.
Last night I attempted to block cubs, as I am the village blocker, and the result I got said that he was able to successfully fight me off and that he also left me damaged and unable to act tonight.
It people are interested, the first night I tried to block Sporty but with the night cancel I didn't even receive any night results whatsoever, not even to be told it failed or there was a night cancel.
The rules Dubz listed says we can't act on the same player twice in a row, if you're wondering why I didn't act on Sporty again.
Cubs was someone I wanted to resolve and had sus on him, but like, not tons, so I went there.
I am revealing because I'm obviously concerned he is a strong arm wolf. Not many village abilities not only overcome a village blocker, but also leave them damaged and unable to act the next night.
If by some miracle he were village, then I guess I've given opening to wolves on two villagers (myself and him). But if he's wolf, I don't want him to wriggle out of a yeet for too long, and I feel worse about him given the night results than I do Mel or April, so I'd rather he were flipped before either of them.
I hope I did the right thing coming forward with this. Would love AM's take on this as I typically look to her in or out of games for thoughts on WW strat particularly ability usage and claims and night result reveals.
Last night I attempted to block cubs, as I am the village blocker, and the result I got said that he was able to successfully fight me off and that he also left me damaged and unable to act tonight.
It people are interested, the first night I tried to block Sporty but with the night cancel I didn't even receive any night results whatsoever, not even to be told it failed or there was a night cancel.
The rules Dubz listed says we can't act on the same player twice in a row, if you're wondering why I didn't act on Sporty again.
Cubs was someone I wanted to resolve and had sus on him, but like, not tons, so I went there.
I am revealing because I'm obviously concerned he is a strong arm wolf. Not many village abilities not only overcome a village blocker, but also leave them damaged and unable to act the next night.
If by some miracle he were village, then I guess I've given opening to wolves on two villagers (myself and him). But if he's wolf, I don't want him to wriggle out of a yeet for too long, and I feel worse about him given the night results than I do Mel or April, so I'd rather he were flipped before either of them.
I hope I did the right thing coming forward with this. Would love AM's take on this as I typically look to her in or out of games for thoughts on WW strat particularly ability usage and claims and night result reveals.
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I'm interested to hear how Cubs tries to defend himself
To counter this, I will tell you that I am invincible against “machines” and will damage them if they try to act on me. I don’t know if machines are a class of bad guys or just totally random, so do with that info what you will.
Done
Interesting. I think I'd like to hear from @cubsrule4e if he knows why this might have happened.
supershorty
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I ISOed cubs, but it's too big for one post, so I'm splitting it by his interactions with genny or mentions of her, and then I'll follow up with his other posts.
tl;dr: his interactions with genny don't look great in light of her flip. That whole situation yesterday when I started really wolf reading her and went for her is strange, and I don't understand his thought process at all. But that being said, it doesn't look great to the point of it seeming too obvious to be w/w. I can't really come up with a good explanation for it - it's not like genny came on D2 and could have pocketed cubs to get him to suddenly protect her by getting off the vote (or by voting someone who was pushing her). I just have a hard time imagining a world where w/w interactions would be this in your face - like cubs making a point to say he was going to watch to see if I got off genny's vote when if/when it picked up, and then actually doing that himself and staying off it.
Then later:
tl;dr: his interactions with genny don't look great in light of her flip. That whole situation yesterday when I started really wolf reading her and went for her is strange, and I don't understand his thought process at all. But that being said, it doesn't look great to the point of it seeming too obvious to be w/w. I can't really come up with a good explanation for it - it's not like genny came on D2 and could have pocketed cubs to get him to suddenly protect her by getting off the vote (or by voting someone who was pushing her). I just have a hard time imagining a world where w/w interactions would be this in your face - like cubs making a point to say he was going to watch to see if I got off genny's vote when if/when it picked up, and then actually doing that himself and staying off it.
I don't feel like I can read anything into this, feels like fluff and NAI.
Talked about this post earlier in response to Dina, not going to repeat myself.
This whole exchange is so bizarre to me.Maybe Im just observing how defensive you get over it? Where your vote goes next and how fast?
Then later:
Thinks votes on genny could be opportunistic.
Jumps off the genny vote when he was the 4th vote on it. I already talked about this earlier.
The second guessing here was his genny wolf read. I don't think I can fault him for this comment, though - the silence was starting to make me wonder if I was wrong on my genny read, especially since it was primarily based on those 2 comments she'd made about me, which is not a lot to go on.
This was talking about April putting her vote on genny. This feels a little disingenuous. Why would April's vote, if it was a pressure vote, make cubs want to jump off one of his wolf reads? This was an hour and a half to yeet close, for time reference.
Hmm.
Talked about this earlier.
Dina was asking me.
This is really overstated. "Led a charge for two days," really? He put a wishy-washy vote on her D1, and then D2, when she said some wolfy things, he ... voted for the person who called her out on them, briefly switched to genny, and then didn't stay there when she was actually in danger. But as I said earlier when I talked about this, it feels too wolfy to be wolf. I think. It's making me very uncomfortable, I just don't see it being a strong wolf strategy, and having watched cubs' thought process as a wolf (since I was modding), I don't think he'd be this obvious in his interactions with a packmate.
I was giving Cubs an opening to come forward with these sketchy night happenings (it's possible he fought off a block and wasn't notified, but I would expect with flavor indicating that he actively fought off and damaged someone that it might not be silent). I considered if he just didn't want to reveal he obviously has a night ability or for the blocker to step forward if he were village, but seems more likely he's a wolf, knows this looks wolfy, and hoped the blocker's sense of self prez might not make them come forward despite evidence that he looks like a brand of strong arm wolf
AM or Mel, what is your best guess at an ability that not only fights off a block, but also damages the blocker/prevents them from acting the next night? It's like strong arm plus something.
AM or Mel, what is your best guess at an ability that not only fights off a block, but also damages the blocker/prevents them from acting the next night? It's like strong arm plus something.
It’s a passive action. If I’m interacted with by a machine, they are “damage” and they are unable to use their ability the following night.
###unvote mel###
###vote cray###
###vote cray###
It's interesting Cubs mentions.machines. I was only told I was village blocker, no other flavor or hint at what I am.
I find it odd so many of us have hinted there is no game flavor in our role/ability descriptions, but cubs' supposedly has reference to machines.
I find it odd so many of us have hinted there is no game flavor in our role/ability descriptions, but cubs' supposedly has reference to machines.
All of Mel's mentions of/interactions with Cubs
I might not understand the game well enough, but when Ace made me play it, I think some of the machines were peaceful and others were not.
This is a fair point. I would doubt that all machines would be of the same affiliation given the set up of this game.
###unvote cray###
###vote mel###
I don't really have any specific theories for what this ability would be called. Seems like a passive delayed double stopper thing?
This doesn't look less wolfy, you know. You were already top of many lists. I didn't need to do a reveal like I did if I were wolf to get you misyeeted.
I'm also known for particularly lame and undetailed and begrudging if ever fake claims as a wolf, and that I have never fake claim outside of being in a real corner and having to. Trying to paint this as a wolf gambit move on my part by you is weak on so many levels.
The wolves aren't going to leave a blocker alive for long, and otherwise my claim is verifiable and I can be resolved according to how I use it.
To be fair, I know there is some ability that can do this to a PR that isn't wolfy.
I may be wrong that he's a strong arm, since I can't think of a wolfy ability that is strong arm AND does this reflexively to someone acting on the strong arm.
Doesn't mean Dubz or Zenge didn't write one though.
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Yeah, I can't tell if it's anything AI especially being passive, but good to know anyway, I suppose.
This looks a little better.
Frak man. I wish I had blocked someone on a no kill night. I don't really know what this reveal does to help.
I need to go and read the posts I haven't read since revealing.
I just saw that it seemed like things were converging on Mel, April, and Cubs, and I couldn't sit on a night result that might suggest one was a strong arm wolf of some type.
supershorty
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Here's the non-genny-related cubs' posts.
tl;dr: I felt like there were some villagey moments where it seemed like he was genuinely trying to game solve. I also felt that there were some interactions with him that felt off, including some I have. My problem is I know that village!cubs is just as sketchy as wolf!cubs from games I've totted. In light of Cray's reveal and how uncomfortable his genny interactions/mentions ISO made me feel, I need to think on cubs a lot and I'll be interested to see what else he contributes today.
tl;dr: I felt like there were some villagey moments where it seemed like he was genuinely trying to game solve. I also felt that there were some interactions with him that felt off, including some I have. My problem is I know that village!cubs is just as sketchy as wolf!cubs from games I've totted. In light of Cray's reveal and how uncomfortable his genny interactions/mentions ISO made me feel, I need to think on cubs a lot and I'll be interested to see what else he contributes today.
cubs has 3 posts before this, but they're all fluff so I didn't pull them. He was one of the people to comment on AM's reason for not voting MsP right away.
My echo post had quoted him and Cray saying very similar things to what I'd said about AM's reasoning. Seems NAI, although the second sentence felt a little unnecessary/very slightly defensive.
That was after I'd said that April's response to Bob seemed over the top. Still feel that way, especially in light of Bob's flip.
Agreed, that exchange felt v/v to me.
I'm still surprised by the Sporty lean reasoning. I haven't notice an activity level pattern being AI for her, and it seemed like a really odd reason to give someone a village lean. The last sentence feels vaguely villagey, but I've seen scum!cubs do a very good mimicry of the "everyone susses cubs, poor cubs" attitude.
Love (/s) when people apply someone else's meta/previous play to me, particularly on posts where I explained my reasoning.
cubs has played with AM enough that I'd expect him to know that not bussing is a hard line for her.
Talked about this in an earlier post, but I really didn't like the second part of this. It's twisting what I said, which scum!cubs did in CYO II.
These answers to AM are a lot of words to give what's essentially a non-answer (I recognize the irony of my calling something wordy). What I note, though, is that he doesn't take this opportunity to jump on sussing April, who Bob was on at that point. This was when everyone on the board had 1 vote, so he could have pushed April into the lead had he wanted to. When cubs was scum in CYO II, he made pretty significant pushes on people, rather than having posts like this that feel more like a stream of consciousness.
The timing of this post is interesting - it was in response to my saying that hedgy!pleasy fits her village meta. cubs' post immediately prior was about how his lean on Sporty based on her activity was rooted on his own personal reading history of her, so to then immediately call out my pleasy read that I made based on MY history of playing with her caught my attention. I don't think it felt wolfy, but it made me raise an eyebrow.
Another moment that pinged me a little bit for being twisty - my reads list specified that the only section that was ordered was neutrals.
cubs had agreed with me earlier that wolf!alley is quite wordy, so I'm a little surprised that of the 3 options he had at this point (Sporty, alley, and Bob), alley was where he was willing to go. It didn't seem like he had much of a read at all on Bob, but maybe he wanted to give Bob the benefit of the doubt as another person who gets a lot of sketch points early. But so does alley...
That's not what Bob had said. I want to say that the overreaction here feels wolfy, but I don't see how it would benefit a wolf to make these posts. It's just drawing attention to himself for something that's inevitably going to be quickly corrected. So that makes me feel like it's just cubs being cubs.
These are some of the posts that seemed more village to me. I feel like there's some analysis and effort in here that seems like genuine game solving.
Getting a little testy about Mel noting cubs' D1 echoing - which had been noted by other people, so I'm not sure why he got defensive about it THIS time.
All of Cubs's mentions of/interactions with Mel.
So what I'm gathering from the Mel/Cubs mentions, both ways, is a lot more willingness to casually mention each other than Mel/TME, and Cubs being the (I think) second vote on Mel today certainly contributes, but w/w isn't impossible. I'm still more inclined to think Mel/TME.
I also think Cubs sounds very similar to how he was playing in the last game as a villager, so if he is a wolf, well done.
supershorty
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@SportPonies what are your thoughts on Cray's reveal?
Here's all TME's mentions of/interactions with Genny. I'm annotating this one unlike the other interaction ISOs because there's a lot going on here I find valuable.
tl/dr: TME's initial Genny vote was hedgy, based on nothing, and came out of thin air, resembles the typical bussing pattern Genny wants when she thinks someone is going down, TME mentions bussing twice - seems like she has it on her mind. Hedges the whole time she's on Genny despite voting her two days in a row. Gives herself and others multiple opportunities to leave the Genny vote, even sounds irritated when I joined her. Feels w/w.
tl/dr: TME's initial Genny vote was hedgy, based on nothing, and came out of thin air, resembles the typical bussing pattern Genny wants when she thinks someone is going down, TME mentions bussing twice - seems like she has it on her mind. Hedges the whole time she's on Genny despite voting her two days in a row. Gives herself and others multiple opportunities to leave the Genny vote, even sounds irritated when I joined her. Feels w/w.
Fluff comment to Genny, sounded like she had to force an early w/w interaction.
Comes close to vote close and she doesn't commit to her genny read. Says it in a very unconfident way, then follows up with her read is "for no good reason other than feels" possibly trying to distance herself from her own vote so that she can jump off if need be.
Made half an hour before vote close, implies she still doesn't feel great about it and would be willing to jump off.
Admits her vote came out of nowhere. Sounds like Genny said "I'm too busy to play enough, people are sussing me, and you need somewhere to vote, so bus me and get the cred," which is exactly what she told our wolf pack to do in Basics.
Has some notes on Genny but doesn't commit to a read, just categorizes it under "other votes I find interesting."
Never says why she is uncomfy with the genny discussion, feels like another way to give herself an out.
Interestingly reactive, almost sounding irritated after I put my vote on Genny, which is where she also had her vote. Feels like she doesn't want other people to join it.
Again, attempts to give herself/others a reason to dive off the Genny vote.
Jumps off the genny vote at the last minute to prevent a tie, NAI on its own, but convenient.
Mentions bussing, sounds like she has it on her mind, I wonder why.
Mentions bussing a second time.
All of Mel's (quite unimpressive) mentions of/interactions with Genny.
Genny/Mel/TME pack
will catch up on individual posts later, but April is either on a village tunnel WAY off base or this is an interesting wolfy push
@SportPonies, I'm interested in how you feel about it in light of some things we discussed in PM. I'm wondering if some questions I asked April this morning might have set this off.
current considering a cubs/April pack, or if she's an off base villager, maybe a Cray/Mel pack. would need to go back and review those though
@SportPonies, I'm interested in how you feel about it in light of some things we discussed in PM. I'm wondering if some questions I asked April this morning might have set this off.
current considering a cubs/April pack, or if she's an off base villager, maybe a Cray/Mel pack. would need to go back and review those though
I do think there are only two wolves left. Or are you saying this is your POE?
Nevermind, I see genny is one of the numbers.
Haha sounds like a similar reaction to RvB when I started wolf reading you
Genny is dead lol
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I'm also very aware of how you figured us out in RvB, so if you think I would be that careless on my next wolfing outing to get caught by the same mistake then I'm sad
Assuming you're wolf, you definitely interacted with at least one of your packmates more to the point of bussing. Different mistake this time.
Did you get to answer this yet?
@Animal Midwife how do you feel about TME?
I have her as slight village.
Not great at VCA, but trying. When I look at the voting behavior of Mel, April, and Cubs, Mel is the one who ends up looking the worst to my eye.
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