2010-2011 Harvard Application Thread

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bleargh said:
christ...
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It really bothers me that people with lower stats than me get interviews and I don't. Obviously the OP was an URM and yes i know people get defensive about this. I'm white, my father died when i was young and my older sister was on drugs and prostituted herself while my mom struggled working 2 jobs.. But i'm white, so who cares...
 
UpperEastSide said:
It really bothers me that people with lower stats than me get interviews and I don't. Obviously the OP was an URM and yes i know people get defensive about this. I'm white, my father died when i was young and my older sister was on drugs and prostituted herself while my mom struggled working 2 jobs.. But i'm white, so who cares...
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You are an idiot.
 
UpperEastSide said:
It really bothers me that people with lower stats than me get interviews and I don't. Obviously the OP was an URM and yes i know people get defensive about this. I'm white, my father died when i was young and my older sister was on drugs and prostituted herself while my mom struggled working 2 jobs.. But i'm white, so who cares...
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....could make you feel even worse.... but imma let this slide
 
UpperEastSide said:
It really bothers me that people with lower stats than me get interviews and I don't.
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My question is do people really say things like this???? 😕 Incredible how much an anonymous forum can bring out the worst in people.
 
UpperEastSide said:
It really bothers me that people with lower stats than me get interviews and I don't. Obviously the OP was an URM and yes i know people get defensive about this. I'm white, my father died when i was young and my older sister was on drugs and prostituted herself while my mom struggled working 2 jobs.. But i'm white, so who cares...
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If your application remotely reflects the attitude you present with this post, it is not at all surprising you've been passed over by schools.

Schools clearly state the MCAT and GPAs are not their only metrics of selection. They admit a range of stats so it should come as no surprise that people both above you and below you in terms of numbers are interviewed. You're not the only person - white, URM, etc - with an interesting story.

I will never understand the sense of entitlement some people bring to this absurdly competitive and subjective process.
 
UpperEastSide said:
It really bothers me that people with lower stats than me get interviews and I don't. Obviously the OP was an URM and yes i know people get defensive about this. I'm white, my father died when i was young and my older sister was on drugs and prostituted herself while my mom struggled working 2 jobs.. But i'm white, so who cares...
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Dude, you posted that your MCAT is a 30. Not only do you suck at playing nice with others, but apparently you don't realize that this isn't golf and that higher MCAT scores beat lower scores. Or that Ivy League schools might be out of your league.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=10373389#post10373389
 
rjmn said:
Dude, you posted that your MCAT is a 30. Not only do you suck at playing nice with others, but apparently you don't realize that this isn't golf and that higher MCAT scores beat lower scores. Or that Ivy League schools might be out of your league.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=10373389#post10373389
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2 MCATS. most recent was a 30, previous was a 33- unbalanced. I don't play well with others? I joined this site for one reason and one reason only. Once March rolls around, i don't plan to be sticking around. And to add, i've had 5 interviews thus far and 1 acceptance. I don't go around parading my success to others like Cole (Upenn forum) or put "CLASS OF 2015, JEALOUS MUCH?" in my sig. 👎
 
UpperEastSide said:
2 MCATS. most recent was a 30, previous was a 33- unbalanced. I don't play well with others? I joined this site for one reason and one reason only. Once March rolls around, i don't plan to be sticking around. And to add, i've had 5 interviews thus far and 1 acceptance. I don't go around parading my success to others like Cole (Upenn forum) or put "CLASS OF 2015, JEALOUS MUCH?" in my sig. 👎
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good for you.
 
UpperEastSide said:
It really bothers me that people with lower stats than me get interviews and I don't.
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Seriously man, what next? Are you going to start stomping your feet or holding your breath till things go your way? I thought people usually outgrow temper tantrums by age 3.
 
UpperEastSide said:
2 MCATS. most recent was a 30, previous was a 33- unbalanced. I don't play well with others? I joined this site for one reason and one reason only. Once March rolls around, i don't plan to be sticking around. And to add, i've had 5 interviews thus far and 1 acceptance. I don't go around parading my success to others like Cole (Upenn forum) or put "CLASS OF 2015, JEALOUS MUCH?" in my sig. 👎
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So what you're trying to tell me is...your MCAT score is a 30?
 
UpperEastSide said:
It really bothers me that people with lower stats than me get interviews and I don't. Obviously the OP was an URM and yes i know people get defensive about this. I'm white, my father died when i was young and my older sister was on drugs and prostituted herself while my mom struggled working 2 jobs.. But i'm white, so who cares...
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cool story, bro.

and you're right, i don't particularly care.
 
This thread is becoming more and more pathetic... at some point people who aspire to be doctors need to grow up, mature, and realize medicine is a team sport.

Oh, and I think the Adcom at HMS has enough experience to evaluate an applicant in their entirety and determine if the applicant is a good fit for the particular school... HMS has done a pretty good job selecting applicants historically lol
 
Oh, and UpperEastSide.... you have an acceptance. Congrats. Rejoice, not everyone ends up being so fortunate. Good luck with the rest of your apps
 
Cster0905 said:
I will never understand the sense of entitlement some people bring to this absurdly competitive and subjective process.
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Not a "sense of entitlement." My point was URM are not the only disadvantaged people. Wasn't looking for people's pity.
 
UpperEastSide said:
Not a "sense of entitlement." My point was URM are not the only disadvantaged people. Wasn't looking for people's pity.
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There is a disadvantage claim on AMCAS. you should have taken advantage of that
 
wanderlustlife said:
My question is do people really say things like this???? 😕 Incredible how much an anonymous forum can bring out the worst in people.
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4ksibe said:
There is a disadvantage claim on AMCAS. you should have taken advantage of that
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Everyone should know by now that this forum is filled with liberals who are only open-minded so long as you agree with them. Don't blame Harvard. There are only so many qualified applicants and they are just trying to follow the law.


https://www.aamc.org/download/157594/data/table25-b-mcatgpa-grid-black-0810.pdf.pdf

https://www.aamc.org/download/161696/data/table19-mcatgpa-raceeth-2010-web.pdf.pdf
 
UpperEastSide said:
Not a "sense of entitlement." My point was URM are not the only disadvantaged people. Wasn't looking for people's pity.
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I think the real issue is that you need to stop blaming minorities for your "lack" of interview invites (although with your stats, most people would grateful for doing as well so far). After reading your "It's Dec. and not a single invite???" posted above, it seemed like you just wanted someone to tell you "sorry, your problem is that you aren't a minority and med schools hate white people whether or not they have struggled" But heres the reality: THIS IS NOT THE CASE. Its impossible to find out why you aren't getting an interview from one school or another unless you talk to someone on that specific school's adcom. You can't just choose some random thing that you have or don't have, no matter what it is and use that as a scapegoat. The fact that you have chosen minorities for this purpose is borderline bigotry.

ADD: I guess I should stop checking my inbox for an interview invite these days huh? prob cause I'm not black enough 🙁
 
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As tasteless as UpperEastSide has been in this thread, I hope his lack of tact doesn't take away too much from the discussion.

While admissions are of course holistic, and stats don't mean everything, they do mean quite a lot. I have seen minorities (esp males) gain entry to top schools with numbers that would make your jaw drop. Being of a certain race helps, and I believe it does help quite a lot.

I'm in favor of affirmative action, but to suggest that URMs are admitted on the same standards as others is crazy. All top medical schools have an affirmative action policy, and is not strictly the purpose of affirmative action to increase URM representation at the school?
 
09grad said:
As tasteless as UpperEastSide has been in this thread, I hope his lack of tact doesn't take away too much from the discussion.

While admissions are of course holistic, and stats don't mean everything, they do mean quite a lot. I have seen minorities (esp males) gain entry to top schools with numbers that would make your jaw drop. Being of a certain race helps, and I believe it does help quite a lot.

I'm in favor of affirmative action, but to suggest that URMs are admitted on the same standards as others is crazy. All top medical schools have an affirmative action policy, and is not strictly the purpose of affirmative action to increase URM representation at the school?
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I agree with you completely and applaud you for saying what too many are afraid to acknowledge. I'm all for equality, but I don't agree with a lesser applicant getting the spot, as often happens, just for the sake of keeping the numbers pretty.

Equality means equal opportunity, not necessarily equal representation.
 
Are you guys still talking about this? Gosh, I'm so flattered 🙄

But seriously, I'm questioning a few posters' integrity up until now, and hope that they are more mature than they seem. If that's not the case, then hopefully I only meet a few people like some of you in the years to come.

Keep this thing civil. It's sad that this is what the Harvard forum turns into once interviews are done and there's no more interesting activity until March.

Cheers and good luck.
 
CaptainZappo said:
I agree with you completely and applaud you for saying what too many are afraid to acknowledge. I'm all for equality, but I don't agree with a lesser applicant getting the spot, as often happens, just for the sake of keeping the numbers pretty.

Equality means equal opportunity, not necessarily equal representation.
Click to expand...

I think admissions committees ask themselves why a URM candidate has lower numbers. I mean, you can interview someone with lower numbers and realize that they have the same potential as someone with higher numbers, and maybe the difference between those MCAT scores and GPAs comes from the fact that the URM applicant had to work while they were in community college and couldn't afford to take a $1000 test prep course. I don't think any school, especially the ones we're talking about here, are accepting people who can't handle the material and work. I'm pretty sure all of these admissions committees are dedicated to offering equal opportunity to a diversity of students, and that doesn't mean taking the people with the top numbers.
 
CaptainZappo said:
I agree with you completely and applaud you for saying what too many are afraid to acknowledge. I'm all for equality, but I don't agree with a lesser applicant getting the spot, as often happens, just for the sake of keeping the numbers pretty.

Equality means equal opportunity, not necessarily equal representation.
Click to expand...

This is truly ridiculous. What makes an applicant "lesser?" A low MCAT? A low GPA? Who are you to judge whether an applicant is lesser or not?

Herp is derp.
 
OK I have a question for you UpperEastSide:

Why does the fact that you struggled as a child mean that you are more qualified to become a doctor? Yes it's nice to see someone who has pulled it together and bested a terrible situation, but it does not mean that you should have a better shot at medical school than someone who up to this point has had a more 'normal' life.

You're complaining about URMs because of affirmative action...but aren't you just trying to create your own affirmative action by using your childhood as an application boost? You clearly don't have the stats for an ivy league but because of your past you think you deserve one. idk.

I'm 24. Nothing terrible has really happened my entire life (not that there has been much time for that to happen...I'm 24 for chrissake!), so does that mean I will be a bad or less-qualified/able physician?

Anyway, just food for thought. This discussion is pointless because lets face it...MCATs are bull**** and GPA is different at every institution. Can't we all just get along?
 
FutureDoc315 said:
Everyone should know by now that this forum is filled with liberals who are only open-minded so long as you agree with them. Don't blame Harvard. There are only so many qualified applicants and they are just trying to follow the law.


https://www.aamc.org/download/157594/data/table25-b-mcatgpa-grid-black-0810.pdf.pdf

https://www.aamc.org/download/161696/data/table19-mcatgpa-raceeth-2010-web.pdf.pdf
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Uh, if you want your points to be taken seriously, I would avoid silly sweeping generalizations such as this gem. There are people of all walks of life who pretend to be open until you challenge their views, not just liberals.
 
ColeOnTheRoll said:
This is truly ridiculous. What makes an applicant "lesser?" A low MCAT? A low GPA? Who are you to judge whether an applicant is lesser or not?

Herp is derp.
Click to expand...

I find it hilarious when people try to sideline a valid point with supposedly unanswerable questions.

The truth of the matter is, the applicant was a good friend of mine in undergrad, who I've known for nearly five years now. Without delving into too many specifics, because the applicant would be quite easy to locate on these forums, it shall suffice to say that he/she volunteered in the same hospital I did. In fact, that was the only clinical experience he/she had. I had far more clinical than that, a better MCAT, and a significantly higher GPA. He/she got interviews at literally every school to which he/she applied and already has three acceptances and two waitlists.

I have no acceptances and but one waitlist.

The only difference? This applicant is Hispanic.

You can try to curb the matter with your self-enlightening comments all you want, the truth is the truth.
 
CaptainZappo said:
I find it hilarious when people try to sideline a valid point with supposedly unanswerable questions.

The truth of the matter is, the applicant was a good friend of mine in undergrad, who I've known for nearly five years now. Without delving into too many specifics, because the applicant would be quite easy to locate on these forums, it shall suffice to say that he/she volunteered in the same hospital I did. In fact, that was the only clinical experience he/she had. I had far more clinical than that, a better MCAT, and a significantly higher GPA. He/she got interviews at literally every school to which he/she applied and already has three acceptances and two waitlists.

I have no acceptances and but one waitlist.

The only difference? This applicant is Hispanic.

You can try to curb the matter with your self-enlightening comments all you want, the truth is the truth.
Click to expand...

It is the truth; URMs are given more leeway when it comes to numbers (GPA and MCAT) - one only need to look at the AAMC data which is readily available on the website. I mean, you already know that this is the name of the game. It's not like the system is going to change anytime soon.
 
CaptainZappo said:
The only difference? This applicant is Hispanic.

You can try to curb the matter with your self-enlightening comments all you want, the truth is the truth.
Click to expand...


Did you write the same essays? Did you have the same recommendation letters? When you interviewed, how did you present yourself? Can you demonstrate a similar life story to your friend, hardships or lack thereof included? These are all tangible aspects of the application process that will make or break an application. So, is your friend's ethnicity really the only difference between the two of you?

EDIT: Scores can only get you so far. Having a 4.0 from a prestigious institution and a 36 MCAT is neither necessary nor sufficient to make a great or even a minimally competent physician. Adcoms understand this fact, and every applicant has to learn to adapt to their reasoning.
 
CaptainZappo said:
I find it hilarious when people try to sideline a valid point with supposedly unanswerable questions.

The truth of the matter is, the applicant was a good friend of mine in undergrad, who I've known for nearly five years now. Without delving into too many specifics, because the applicant would be quite easy to locate on these forums, it shall suffice to say that he/she volunteered in the same hospital I did. In fact, that was the only clinical experience he/she had. I had far more clinical than that, a better MCAT, and a significantly higher GPA. He/she got interviews at literally every school to which he/she applied and already has three acceptances and two waitlists.

I have no acceptances and but one waitlist.

The only difference? This applicant is Hispanic.

You can try to curb the matter with your self-enlightening comments all you want, the truth is the truth.
Click to expand...


Welcome to the exciting field of medicine where, believe it or not, you won't always agree with the way things are done. Sometimes your ideas are better than the way things are currently done, sometimes they're not, but regardless, you have to go with it.

Now let's get back to talking about Harvard...
 
korsian said:
It is the truth; URMs are given more leeway when it comes to numbers (GPA and MCAT) - one only need to look at the AAMC data which is readily available on the website. I mean, you already know that this is the name of the game. It's not like the system is going to change anytime soon.
Click to expand...

It is nice to see others who are willing to speak out against such blatant exceptions.


spagett said:
Did you write the same essays? Did you have the same recommendation letters? When you interviewed, how did you present yourself? Can you demonstrate a similar life story to your friend, hardships or lack thereof included? These are all tangible aspects of the application process that will make or break an application. So, is your friend's ethnicity really the only difference between the two of you?

EDIT: Scores can only get you so far. Having a 4.0 from a prestigious institution and a 36 MCAT is neither necessary nor sufficient to make a great or even a minimally competent physician. Adcoms understand this fact, and every applicant has to learn to adapt to their reasoning.
Click to expand...

I am not claiming that, in this particular example, the ethnicity of the applicant accounted for all of his/her success, what I am citing though, is the marked contrast in the average numbers of white matriculants versus those of URMs. Neither you, nor anyone else, can gloss over, nor euphemize cold, hard statistics. I suggest you stop trying.
 
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CaptainZappo said:
I am not claiming that, in this particular example, the ethnicity of the applicant accounted for all of his/her success,
Click to expand...

Oh really? Because it looks like that's exactly what you're saying...

CaptainZappo said:
The truth of the matter is, the applicant was a good friend of mine in undergrad, who I've known for nearly five years now. Without delving into too many specifics, because the applicant would be quite easy to locate on these forums, it shall suffice to say that he/she volunteered in the same hospital I did. In fact, that was the only clinical experience he/she had. I had far more clinical than that, a better MCAT, and a significantly higher GPA. He/she got interviews at literally every school to which he/she applied and already has three acceptances and two waitlists.

I have no acceptances and but one waitlist.

The only difference? This applicant is Hispanic.
Click to expand...


CaptainZappo said:
what I am citing though, is the marked contrast in the average numbers of white matriculants versus those of URMs. Neither you, nor anyone else, can gloss over, nor euphemize cold, hard statistics. I suggest you stop trying.
Click to expand...

My point was simply that scores aren't everything. But if it means something to you, do the math and you'll notice that about 45.6% of white applicants matriculated, compared to a 43.7% matriculation rate among applicants of all races. So if white applicants have higher "stats" and a higher acceptance rate, what does that suggest?

https://www.aamc.org/download/161696/data/table19-mcatgpa-raceeth-2010-web.pdf.pdf
 
mano kanaka said:
OK I have a question for you UpperEastSide:

Why does the fact that you struggled as a child mean that you are more qualified to become a doctor? Yes it's nice to see someone who has pulled it together and bested a terrible situation, but it does not mean that you should have a better shot at medical school than someone who up to this point has had a more 'normal' life.

You're complaining about URMs because of affirmative action...but aren't you just trying to create your own affirmative action by using your childhood as an application boost? You clearly don't have the stats for an ivy league but because of your past you think you deserve one. idk.

I'm 24. Nothing terrible has really happened my entire life (not that there has been much time for that to happen...I'm 24 for chrissake!), so does that mean I will be a bad or less-qualified/able physician?

Anyway, just food for thought. This discussion is pointless because lets face it...MCATs are bull**** and GPA is different at every institution. Can't we all just get along?
Click to expand...

Please. I was not going to reply to this but your twisting my point, and that is, URM are not the only ones at a disadvantage. I did not check the 'disadvantaged' box and i certainly did not write about my 'disadvantages' in my personal statements/essays because 1. its embarrassing to admit, and 2. I am not a pity ***** wanting special privledges. What i don't like is how there are those URM that do live better lives than my own and plenty other white people and still play the system. Case in point: A black girl (somewhat friends) in my department (1 year older) got into UCSF. However, i know for a fact she comes from a rich family- drives a BMW, parties every week (pics posted on clubparties.com and napkinnights.com.... don't ask if you don't know) not that smart or involved in campus activites, but still got in UCSF. Gee, lifes good huh?
 
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I wanted to change the serious/ uptight mood of this thread. Have a laugh and don't take this comment too seriously

IN LIGHT HUMOR affirmative action can taken them out of the ghetto but it can't take the ghetto out of them.. News reporter turns ghetto in 3 seconds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUS6nKpddec
 
UpperEastSide said:
Please. URM are not the only ones at a disadvantage. What i don't like is how there are those URM that do live better lives than my own and plenty other white people and still play the system. Case in point: A black girl (somewhat friends) in my department (1 year older) got into UCSF. However, i know for a fact she comes from a rich family- drives a BMW, parties every week (pics posted on clubparties.com and napkinnights.com.... don't ask if you don't know) not that smart or involved in campus activites, but still got in UCSF. Gee, lifes good huh?
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This may have been said prior, but.....

URM is UNDER REPRESENTED MINORITY

It is not

DISADVANTAGED

Two completely different things. Any preferences given to URMs are to help ensure that these "UNDER REPRENTED MINORITIES" are better represented in medicine. It is not about the individual applicant, it is about that minority community and attempting to increase balance so the minority community is better served.

This seems so clear to me, I don't understand all the discussion. It is not established for the benefit of the individual applicant, yes, individual applicants may seem to directly benefit, but the goal is to represent the minority community.
 
UES, I hope we are never classmates or colleagues.
 
CaptainZappo said:
I find it hilarious when people try to sideline a valid point with supposedly unanswerable questions.

The truth of the matter is, the applicant was a good friend of mine in undergrad, who I've known for nearly five years now. Without delving into too many specifics, because the applicant would be quite easy to locate on these forums, it shall suffice to say that he/she volunteered in the same hospital I did. In fact, that was the only clinical experience he/she had. I had far more clinical than that, a better MCAT, and a significantly higher GPA. He/she got interviews at literally every school to which he/she applied and already has three acceptances and two waitlists.

I have no acceptances and but one waitlist.

The only difference? This applicant is Hispanic.

You can try to curb the matter with your self-enlightening comments all you want, the truth is the truth.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that URM status doesn't play a role in medical admissions. It does and rightfully so IMO. But your blinding ignorance and arrogance is pretty ******ed. You just seem mad because you're apparently so awesome that schools should love to have you, but your minority friend who is clearly inferior is only getting in because of his/her race and not by the work he/she has put in.

Please. The fact is that you don't know all of the details about your "friend," and you can't possibly know everything that he/she included on her application or discussed in interviews. The admissions game is so much more than numbers and a list of ECs.
 
FlowRate said:
Anyway. Harvard was cool. March 1? Sweet. Let's all not post about URM's until after folks start getting accepted. It's like the quiet game, except better.
Click to expand...

BUT THE URMS TOOK MY SPOT. I HAVE A 4.0/41, I SHOULDVE GOTTEN AN INTERVIEW, THOSE LOWLY URMS CANT EVEN APPROACH MY GREATNESS AND GLORY.

Freakin ridiculous.
 
Quite frankly, I don't understand the point of discussing something that isn't within your control. Whining on SDN about not getting invites/acceptances isn't going to change anything
 
Laplace said:
Quite frankly, I don't understand the point of discussing something that isn't within your control. Whining on SDN about not getting invites/acceptances isn't going to change anything
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
I agree that both sides of the fence have raised entirely valid points. The admissions game is neither devoid of ethnicity considerations, nor is it played solely on them.

Let's get back to being constructive now.
 
FlowRate said:
Anyway. Harvard was cool. March 1? Sweet. Let's all not post about URM's until after folks start getting accepted. It's like the quiet game, except better.
Click to expand...

I can't decide whether to be excited or terrified.
 
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