2013-2014 Harvard Application Thread

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Are you guys writing the challenge essay? Is it truly an optional essay? It's not a diversity essay rigth?

I grew up in a typical middle-class environment and really don't have any challenges without making trivial ones up.
 
I didn't write it. I felt like it would be somewhat insulting to people for people with really significant challenges for me (also typical middle class) to write it.
 
fhg said:
I didn't write it. I felt like it would be somewhat insulting to people for people with really significant challenges for me (also typical middle class) to write it.
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I didn't write it either. I wrote optional essays for some schools with more open prompts, but felt it would be ridiculous for my privileged self to try and spin something out of nothing given the wording of Harvard's prompt.
 
SN12357 said:
I didn't write it either. I wrote optional essays for some schools with more open prompts, but felt it would be ridiculous for my privileged self to try and spin something out of nothing given the wording of Harvard's prompt.
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Exactly. This one was worded very specifically.
 
mariambaby3 said:
Are you guys writing the challenge essay? Is it truly an optional essay? It's not a diversity essay rigth?

I grew up in a typical middle-class environment and really don't have any challenges without making trivial ones up.
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It's truly optional but I wrote it still. I made sure to not write anything forced but I talked about both cultural affiliations and a particular challenging instance and how they molded me into who I am today.
 
SN12357 said:
I didn't write it either. I wrote optional essays for some schools with more open prompts, but felt it would be ridiculous for my privileged self to try and spin something out of nothing given the wording of Harvard's prompt.
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I actually used this essay space to write about how experiences when I was young related to my background/culture led me to medicine... something like a diversity essay. So it doesn't necessarily have to concern hardship/adversity.
 
TheKDizzle said:
I actually used this essay space to write about how experiences when I was young related to my background/culture led me to medicine... something like a diversity essay. So it doesn't necessarily have to concern hardship/adversity.
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Actually, it does. I'm grateful to those who decided to NOT write about adversity/hardship, because yes, it is insulting to people like me. As someone who grew up poor and had a step father who abused me, plus worked 40 hrs a week to pay for my undergrad, that section is really for people like me to explain why my grades aren't up to par with White middle class America. So, sir, instead of wasting their time reading your fatuous reasons for why you want to be a doctor and how it was something you wanted to do ever since you were a little kid, don't, and realize you are nothing special than the thousands of applicants they receive with the same essay. EXCEPT those applicants at least have the decency to write about it in their AMCAS essay and not in the secondary, specifically, in a place designated for hardship and adversity.
 
Big N Tasty said:
It's truly optional but I wrote it still. I made sure to not write anything forced but I talked about both cultural affiliations and a particular challenging instance and how they molded me into who I am today.
Click to expand...

So, you basically wrote about B.S.? I hope they don't interview you. I mean this respectfully. Answer questions honestly and stop trying to write more than you need too. If you have no adversity, leave it blank. Simple as that, they receive thousands of applicants, they don't give a crap about your opinion regarding cultural differences or how it molded you. They care about 1) did you have hardship and 2) if you did, can this explain the correlation to why your grades weren't up to the mean/average. That's all they care about.
 
mariambaby3 said:
Are you guys writing the challenge essay? Is it truly an optional essay? It's not a diversity essay rigth?

I grew up in a typical middle-class environment and really don't have any challenges without making trivial ones up.
Click to expand...

You made the right decision. Thank you from someone who really needs that space to explain why my grades are probably not the same as yours...
 
fhg said:
I didn't write it. I felt like it would be somewhat insulting to people for people with really significant challenges for me (also typical middle class) to write it.
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It is insulting and this is why I hope you do get in. It shows you have empathy and integrity.
 
mpcolon said:
Actually, it does. I'm grateful to those who decided to NOT write about adversity/hardship, because yes, it is insulting to people like me. As someone who grew up poor and had a step father who abused me, plus worked 40 hrs a week to pay for my undergrad, that section is really for people like me to explain why my grades aren't up to par with White middle class America. So, sir, instead of wasting their time reading your fatuous reasons for why you want to be a doctor and how it was something you wanted to do ever since you were a little kid, don't, and realize you are nothing special than the thousands of applicants they receive with the same essay. EXCEPT those applicants at least have the decency to write about it in their AMCAS essay and not in the secondary, specifically, in a place designated for hardship and adversity.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the only hardship in the world is growing up poor with an abusive step father. +pity+
 
mpcolon said:
Actually, it does. I'm grateful to those who decided to NOT write about adversity/hardship, because yes, it is insulting to people like me. As someone who grew up poor and had a step father who abused me, plus worked 40 hrs a week to pay for my undergrad, that section is really for people like me to explain why my grades aren't up to par with White middle class America. So, sir, instead of wasting their time reading your fatuous reasons for why you want to be a doctor and how it was something you wanted to do ever since you were a little kid, don't, and realize you are nothing special than the thousands of applicants they receive with the same essay. EXCEPT those applicants at least have the decency to write about it in their AMCAS essay and not in the secondary, specifically, in a place designated for hardship and adversity.
Click to expand...

Look, I don't want to trivialize your experiences or hardships, but why do you care what other people write there? Just because they have a different interpretation of what is appropriate for that spot doesn't mean that their reasons are "fatuous" and that for some reason, their personal adversities will diminish yours. I don't understand why it matters so much to you; ultimately the adcoms will judge. There is no need to be so antagonistic towards people who are just trying to make do with what they have; this isn't a competition for sob stories.
 
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volcomx said:
Ah yes, the only hardship in the world is growing up poor with an abusive step father. +pity+
Click to expand...

No, it isn't, but if you don't have a *real* hardship, i.e. having both parents die for example, having a relative with a disease, having a house repossessed, etc., then, no, I'm sorry, you don't know hardship.

Thank God, I never had a a parent who died, but I'm sure that could be really hard for someone and can explain circumstances like why their grades wouldn't be equal to some middle class White American whose only hardship may have been one they had to question was a hardship at all....
 
vexedly said:
Look, I don't want to trivialize your experiences or hardships, but why do you care what other people write there? Just because they have a different interpretation of what is appropriate for that spot doesn't mean that their reasons are "fatuous" and that for some reason, their personal adversities will diminish yours. I don't understand why it matters so much to you; ultimately the adcoms will judge. There is no need to be so antagonistic towards people who are just trying to make do with what they have; this isn't a competition for sob stories.
Click to expand...

You aren't getting it...1) I don't care what someone writes under "hardship", because ultimately, if you utilize that space, and you don't have a real hardship, but instead some trivial B.S., it is you who hurt your own application, which makes it better for me. So, please, by all means, be an idiot. Clearly, you [and I don't mean you personally] aren't Harvard material if you honestly believe by writing in that line some trivial crap won't hurt your application. I'm actually trying to help those who wrote about pseudo-hardships not make a fool of themselves. 2) It doesn't diminish our hardships (mine and others), but it is just insulting. I mean it really is a spit in the face. It's just like this kid I know who receives all the financial aid in the world for "financial hardship reasons" when his family lives in an $800,000 house in Long Island. I mean, it really does take spots away from people who seriously need it. If a person with a fake hardship is able to get in over someone with a real hardship they literally stole the spot and in my opinion, is a terrible person.
 
I didn't read the prompt as exclusively asking for a hardship essay. It says "an important part of your personal background... Examples might include challenges..."
 
mpcolon said:
So, you basically wrote about B.S.? I hope they don't interview you. I mean this respectfully. Answer questions honestly and stop trying to write more than you need too. If you have no adversity, leave it blank. Simple as that, they receive thousands of applicants, they don't give a crap about your opinion regarding cultural differences or how it molded you. They care about 1) did you have hardship and 2) if you did, can this explain the correlation to why your grades weren't up to the mean/average. That's all they care about.
Click to expand...

lolwut
 
Doesn't Stanford basically have the same prompt and they "strongly encourage" you to write something?
 
mpcolon said:
You aren't getting it...1) I don't care what someone writes under "hardship", because ultimately, if you utilize that space, and you don't have a real hardship, but instead some trivial B.S., it is you who hurt your own application, which makes it better for me. So, please, by all means, be an idiot. Clearly, you [and I don't mean you personally] aren't Harvard material if you honestly believe by writing in that line some trivial crap won't hurt your application. I'm actually trying to help those who wrote about pseudo-hardships not make a fool of themselves. 2) It doesn't diminish our hardships (mine and others), but it is just insulting. I mean it really is a spit in the face. It's just like this kid I know who receives all the financial aid in the world for "financial hardship reasons" when his family lives in an $800,000 house in Long Island. I mean, it really does take spots away from people who seriously need it. If a person with a fake hardship is able to get in over someone with a real hardship they literally stole the spot and in my opinion, is a terrible person.
Click to expand...

I understand where you're coming from. I know that it's frustrating when people are disingenuous in their applications, but I really believe that everyone has their own interpretation of hardship or adversity, and that it's not up to you or me to judge that. Most applicants are not trying to fabricate a pseudo-hardship, but are instead trying to explain how certain circumstances "influenced [their] motivation for a career in medicine." I know that you're trying to keep them from making fools of themselves, etc, and you're free to express your opinion, but I don't think any of us have the right to judge others' responses to this question. We are not the applicant, and we are not the adcom.

And with regards to the second point you raised: yes, it's insanely frustrating. This is the same system we all deal with, however, and I don't know if you can blame the applicant in that hypothetical scenario. None of us are entitled to an acceptance, and if someone games the system to get one unfairly, yes that's terrible, but that's the system for you...

Anyway, I don't want to dwell on this too much. You certainly have an interesting story, best of luck to you!
 
mpcolon said:
middle class White American whose only hardship may have been one they had to question was a hardship at all....
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah, no white middle class american has ever experienced hardship.
 
Actually, I think White Poor have more hardship than any other race...Just an opinion.
 
👍👍
Do Something said:
I didn't read the prompt as exclusively asking for a hardship essay. It says "an important part of your personal background... Examples might include challenges..."
Click to expand...

THIS, guys. If you have experienced a hardship then talk about it if you feel it would add to your application and make you a more desireable candidate. This question seems like an opportunity to show how unique circumstances contributed to your decision to pursue medicine.

Note, "Examples might include..." it seems like you can really talk about anything. The way I answered this question was to delve into personal, cultural details that I didn't get a chance to cover in my primary application. No, I did not paint myself as someone overcoming a hardship. I don't see myself that way, and I don't think that affects my candidacy at all.

I wouldn't leave that question blank. I do believe everybody has something unique they could share and it does not have to be "B.S." The adcoms are offering us a chance to share detail to make our application more dynamic- I'd say take advantage of that opportunity in whatever way you think represents yourself sincerely and accurately.
 
mpcolon said:
So, you basically wrote about B.S.? I hope they don't interview you. I mean this respectfully. Answer questions honestly and stop trying to write more than you need too. If you have no adversity, leave it blank. Simple as that, they receive thousands of applicants, they don't give a crap about your opinion regarding cultural differences or how it molded you. They care about 1) did you have hardship and 2) if you did, can this explain the correlation to why your grades weren't up to the mean/average. That's all they care about.
Click to expand...

I doubt he will get interviewed this cycle.....considering KDizzle is already a student at HMS.:laugh:
 
mpcolon said:
You aren't getting it...1) I don't care what someone writes under "hardship", because ultimately, if you utilize that space, and you don't have a real hardship, but instead some trivial B.S., it is you who hurt your own application, which makes it better for me. So, please, by all means, be an idiot. Clearly, you [and I don't mean you personally] aren't Harvard material if you honestly believe by writing in that line some trivial crap won't hurt your application. I'm actually trying to help those who wrote about pseudo-hardships not make a fool of themselves. 2) It doesn't diminish our hardships (mine and others), but it is just insulting. I mean it really is a spit in the face. It's just like this kid I know who receives all the financial aid in the world for "financial hardship reasons" when his family lives in an $800,000 house in Long Island. I mean, it really does take spots away from people who seriously need it. If a person with a fake hardship is able to get in over someone with a real hardship they literally stole the spot and in my opinion, is a terrible person.
Click to expand...
+1

That is why for my essay I decided to write about how I was the first generation in my family to get a smartphone (not even an Iphone 5...:'( ) and how I was the only one in my class who owned only one car from my parents...it was pretty tough growing up but it built my character and now I think I'm ready for the medical profession where I will be forced to utilize a pager system without smartphone access.
 
mpcolon said:
So, you basically wrote about B.S.? I hope they don't interview you. I mean this respectfully. Answer questions honestly and stop trying to write more than you need too. If you have no adversity, leave it blank. Simple as that, they receive thousands of applicants, they don't give a crap about your opinion regarding cultural differences or how it molded you. They care about 1) did you have hardship and 2) if you did, can this explain the correlation to why your grades weren't up to the mean/average. That's all they care about.
Click to expand...

Well the prompt asked about particular cultural affiliations worth mentioning so I devoted all of two sentences about it.

For the rest of it, I wrote some "B.S." about how I lost three close family members over the span of a couple months and how that (a) affected my classes/social life and (b) informed my decision to become a doctor. I'm sorry if that doesn't live up to your standards of adversity or hardship, but it sure as hell means a lot to me.

Reading your other posts, I can see where you're coming from and I can understand your frustration with people writing those essays for the sake of writing anything. But please don't claim to know everybody's background when they're simply trying to respond to a fellow applicant.

Sincerely,
Big N Tasty
 
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VanillaDLite said:
+1

That is why for my essay I decided to write about how I was the first generation in my family to get a smartphone (not even an Iphone 5...:'( ) and how I was the only one in my class who owned only one car from my parents...it was pretty tough growing up but it built my character and now I think I'm ready for the medical profession where I will be forced to utilize a pager system without smartphone access.
Click to expand...

#TheStruggle
 
mpcolon said:
Actually, it does. I'm grateful to those who decided to NOT write about adversity/hardship, because yes, it is insulting to people like me. As someone who grew up poor and had a step father who abused me, plus worked 40 hrs a week to pay for my undergrad, that section is really for people like me to explain why my grades aren't up to par with White middle class America. So, sir, instead of wasting their time reading your fatuous reasons for why you want to be a doctor and how it was something you wanted to do ever since you were a little kid, don't, and realize you are nothing special than the thousands of applicants they receive with the same essay. EXCEPT those applicants at least have the decency to write about it in their AMCAS essay and not in the secondary, specifically, in a place designated for hardship and adversity.
Click to expand...

dude, thekdizzle goes to HMS.
 
Certainly I think many of us would disagree with how others articulate and represent themselves throughout this process. Let's leave that to admissions to decide whether these things are appropriate. If you really feel strongly, definitely create a separate thread to discuss this as I think it's an interesting topic. However, the School-Specific threads really are a place for users to find support, excitement and advice on each of the schools they're applying to. Using it as a place to attack particular views is unfair to the other users and against the spirit of the thread.
 
Big N Tasty said:
Well the prompt asked about particular cultural affiliations worth mentioning so I devoted all of two sentences about it.

For the rest of it, I wrote some "B.S." about how I lost three close family members over the span of a couple months and how that (a) affected my classes/social life and (b) informed my decision to become a doctor. I'm sorry if that doesn't live up to your standards of adversity or hardship, but it sure as hell means a lot to me.

Reading your other posts, I can see where you're coming from and I can understand your frustration with people writing those essays for the sake of writing anything. But please don't claim to know everybody's background when they're simply trying to respond to a fellow applicant.

Sincerely,
Big N Tasty
Click to expand...

I stand corrected...My sincerest apologies.
 
Narmerguy said:
Certainly I think many of us would disagree with how others articulate and represent themselves throughout this process. Let's leave that to admissions to decide whether these things are appropriate. If you really feel strongly, definitely create a separate thread to discuss this as I think it's an interesting topic. However, the School-Specific threads really are a place for users to find support, excitement and advice on each of the schools they're applying to. Using it as a place to attack particular views is unfair to the other users and against the spirit of the thread.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I shouldn't have started this...
 
HMS is crazy diverse. Yesterday, I sat in a small group session where we talked about our backgrounds. Three out of six of us (all White, coincidentally) mentioned coming from a low-income, food stamps-using, struggling-to-make-ends-meet background. At the same time, there are absurdly wealthy and privileged people here among us. But HMS does a good job of selecting for "nice" -- unifying characteristics of my classmates seems to be the compassion, empathy, and kindness that are critical to becoming an excellent physician. Some of us might have developed those qualities because of our experiences of hardship; others might just innately possess those qualities -- the important thing is that we all have them, and we're all here regardless of what we did or didn't write in that box.

Sidenote: please never use the phrase "You're not Harvard material." People here are surprisingly non-judgmental and super down-to-earth, so that type of exclusionism doesn't really fly.
 
benjaminjado said:
HMS is crazy diverse. Yesterday, I sat in a small group session where we talked about our backgrounds. Three out of six of us (all White, coincidentally) mentioned coming from a low-income, food stamps-using, struggling-to-make-ends-meet background. At the same time, there are absurdly wealthy and privileged people here among us. But HMS does a good job of selecting for "nice" -- unifying characteristics of my classmates seems to be the compassion, empathy, and kindness that are critical to becoming an excellent physician. Some of us might have developed those qualities because of our experiences of hardship; others might just innately possess those qualities -- the important thing is that we all have them, and we're all here regardless of what we did or didn't write in that box.

Sidenote: please never use the phrase "You're not Harvard material." People here are surprisingly non-judgmental and super down-to-earth, so that type of exclusionism doesn't really fly.
Click to expand...

You missed my point with respect to "Harvard Material". By that I meant "Honest, Empathetic, Caring, Good Hearted, etc.." Those are the materials I expect from Harvard students...
 
benjaminjado said:
HMS is crazy diverse. Yesterday, I sat in a small group session where we talked about our backgrounds. Three out of six of us (all White, coincidentally) mentioned coming from a low-income, food stamps-using, struggling-to-make-ends-meet background. At the same time, there are absurdly wealthy and privileged people here among us. But HMS does a good job of selecting for "nice" -- unifying characteristics of my classmates seems to be the compassion, empathy, and kindness that are critical to becoming an excellent physician. Some of us might have developed those qualities because of our experiences of hardship; others might just innately possess those qualities -- the important thing is that we all have them, and we're all here regardless of what we did or didn't write in that box.

Sidenote: please never use the phrase "You're not Harvard material." People here are surprisingly non-judgmental and super down-to-earth, so that type of exclusionism doesn't really fly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this! It's nice to get an inside look at the school environment. I get the sense that Harvard can be cut throat, is that actually not the case? I went to undergrad where everyone was super competitive and while I loved being there at the time, I did my post bacc at my state school and LOVED the comraderie and sense of community. It's something I'm really looking for in a med school. Would you say Harvard offers that kind of environment? Not that I think I'll get an interview there - sort of trying my luck by applying in the first place - but I'd like to redirect this thread to somethng actually about the school! 🙄
 
Roundza -- I really anticipated a cutthroat environment as well. Class-classes haven't yet started, but the upperclassmen have constantly impressed on us how chill and laidback the environment is. They say that people don't talk about grades, that someone will get published in Nature and you might not even know about it, that people collaborate like crazy (sending out study help to their classmates, for example), etc. Pass/fail definitely helps with it, I think, as well as the high emphasis on small group learning and teaching.

I'm looking forward to judging it for myself, but here's what I can tell you from being here for almost two weeks now: most of us are surprised we're here and are still waiting for Admissions to say they made an error, or for people to point and scream "He doesn't belong here!" People have done amazing things, but I've never felt that anyone I was talking to was trying to one-up me. I'm sure there will be a couple people in our class who don't embody these characteristics, and I'm sure that there will always be some people who want to compete. But for now, at least, it just seems like everyone is just so damn nice, and there's definitely a sense of kinship like "we don't deserve this -- no one can deserve this -- but we're here, and we're all going to get each other through these next 4+ years."
 
roundza said:
Thanks for posting this! It's nice to get an inside look at the school environment. I get the sense that Harvard can be cut throat, is that actually not the case? I went to undergrad where everyone was super competitive and while I loved being there at the time, I did my post bacc at my state school and LOVED the comraderie and sense of community. It's something I'm really looking for in a med school. Would you say Harvard offers that kind of environment? Not that I think I'll get an interview there - sort of trying my luck by applying in the first place - but I'd like to redirect this thread to somethng actually about the school! 🙄
Click to expand...

I definitely would second what benjaminjado wrote about HMS. I've barely been here a week but I've already met plenty of people I could see becoming my lifelong friends. So far, most everyone I've met is incredibly humble and nice. I think anyone who is genuine and kind would be able to fit in and find a wonderful group of friends here.
 
Thanks KDizzle and Benjado - I really appreciate the thoughtful responses. Best of luck as classes start!! It sounds like you guys are off to a great start.
 
Interview at HMS. Complete first day possible. Please cut the crap on this forum. Honestly, "I hope they don't interview you" Are you serious? Don't ever minimize someones hardship. Ever. You never know what people are going through.
 
OMG II!! I died and starting screaming DURING class. 3.9 and 30 here! I never expected this for a second!!!!!!!! Complete 7/24
 
sfwtboy said:
OMG II!! I died and starting screaming DURING class. 3.9 and 30 here! I never expected this for a second!!!!!!!! Complete 7/24
Click to expand...

That's amazing! Congratulations!
 
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