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2022 VIRMP Match

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cdo96

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Me three days ago: “there’s no way I’m going to do a residency, I’m already so tired and ready to go into practice”

Me on October 1st: “I should do a residency”

Is this a mistake? Probably, but this could be fun.
 
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TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo

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Throwing my name in the hat this year as well. Can't wait to spend the next few weeks continuing to procrastinate my NAVLE studying by going through the program list. :laugh:
 
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MOOSEygoosey

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Step 1: Take NAVLE
Step 2: Look for internship
Step 3: ???
 
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Just sitting here and refreshing the diagnostic imaging programs, hoping more show up!
 

MOOSEygoosey

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Just sitting here and refreshing the diagnostic imaging programs, hoping more show up!
There's only 9 ECC ones up currently but there's plenty out there lol (AMC isn't even up yet)
 

allygator13

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Just sitting here and refreshing the diagnostic imaging programs, hoping more show up!
They will trickle in until the deadline for programs to enter their information
 
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cdo96

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They will trickle in until the deadline for programs to enter their information
^^^ Last year, I had started my spreadsheet about hospitals like October 1st but then as they trickled in I was learning new things I wanted and ended up having to go back and review the ones I had already reviewed. It’s a mess, wait for the full list to be posted
 
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Does anyone have an example of how to describe a rotating internship on a CV for a residency application? I am not sure how much/what kind of detail to include. If anyone would feel comfortable posting or PMing me theirs (anonymized if necessary!), I would greatly appreciate it :)
 

allygator13

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Does anyone have an example of how to describe a rotating internship on a CV for a residency application? I am not sure how much/what kind of detail to include. If anyone would feel comfortable posting or PMing me theirs (anonymized if necessary!), I would greatly appreciate it :)
I don't think I ever described mine, other than just stating where I did it, what year, and the official title of it (Small Animal Rotating Internship in Medicine and Surgery). Everyone reading an application for a residency should know what a rotating internship entails.
 

JaynaAli

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I don't think I ever described mine, other than just stating where I did it, what year, and the official title of it (Small Animal Rotating Internship in Medicine and Surgery). Everyone reading an application for a residency should know what a rotating internship entails.
Same
 

cdo96

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Some of these residency programs (even academic residencies!!!) are now making you sign essentially a 6 year contract to do a residency for 3 years and then work for that company/ a partner company as a specialists for 3 years after and it just gives me lots of feels
 

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Some of these residency programs (even academic residencies!!!) are now making you sign essentially a 6 year contract to do a residency for 3 years and then work for that company/ a partner company as a specialists for 3 years after and it just gives me lots of feels
Ya those are the industry-sponsored ones. It's even more frustrating when the residency is 4 years instead of 3, for absolutely no reason.
 

allygator13

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Some of these residency programs (even academic residencies!!!) are now making you sign essentially a 6 year contract to do a residency for 3 years and then work for that company/ a partner company as a specialists for 3 years after and it just gives me lots of feels

Yep, those have been floating around the radiology world for years now. They are just becoming more prevalent and now in the Match, where it used to be more common for them to be outside Match.
 
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JaynaAli

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Clin path is slowly trending away from them, though there are still a couple like that. For path I think it’s probably a disservice for the residents because there’s several factions of path you can go into…you’re essentially committing to diagnostics day 1 of your residency but what if you actually end up loving industry or academia?! Some of my non-path co-residents had radiology positions that were like that too…school A sponsored a position at school B because school A had no radiologists of their own, and the resident had to return to school A for a certain amount of time. I heard that one hated it at the place they were contracted to be and was trying to get out and someone else seems happy enough as far as I’ve heard. I see why places do it but I don’t love it.
 

cdo96

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I just don’t love it. Especially with ECC residency because it’s not even like I’m going to be at that same hospital. It’ll be a 3 year contract at a completely different hospital. My residency ends in 2025, I don’t even have a figment of an idea what I’d be doing in 2028.
 

allygator13

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I just don’t love it. Especially with ECC residency because it’s not even like I’m going to be at that same hospital. It’ll be a 3 year contract at a completely different hospital. My residency ends in 2025, I don’t even have a figment of an idea what I’d be doing in 2028.
Clin path is slowly trending away from them, though there are still a couple like that. For path I think it’s probably a disservice for the residents because there’s several factions of path you can go into…you’re essentially committing to diagnostics day 1 of your residency but what if you actually end up loving industry or academia?! Some of my non-path co-residents had radiology positions that were like that too…school A sponsored a position at school B because school A had no radiologists of their own, and the resident had to return to school A for a certain amount of time. I heard that one hated it at the place they were contracted to be and was trying to get out and someone else seems happy enough as far as I’ve heard. I see why places do it but I don’t love it.

I don't think anyone on the application end of things loves it. But for a lot of fields, especially one like radiology that has become super competitive, it's either apply for those to increase your chance of getting a spot and maybe working a job that isn't your first choice for a few years, or risk not getting a residency at all and wondering if you might have if you'd ranked one of those. And at least you're not obligated to stay in that job for the rest of your career.
 
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SkiOtter

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Some of my non-path co-residents had radiology positions that were like that too…school A sponsored a position at school B because school A had no radiologists of their own, and the resident had to return to school A for a certain amount of time. I heard that one hated it at the place they were contracted to be and was trying to get out and someone else seems happy enough as far as I’ve heard. I see why places do it but I don’t love it.
I think we have had 2 radiologists come to illinois that way. One bought himself out of his contract iirc. I think our current radiologist may also have come to us through something like that but I’m not positive. All I know is she’s apparently leaving us too 🥲
 

JaynaAli

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I think we have had 2 radiologists come to illinois that way. One bought himself out of his contract iirc. I think our current radiologist may also have come to us through something like that but I’m not positive. All I know is she’s apparently leaving us too 🥲
Yes those are the people I was thinking of. Hadn’t heard that about the newer one.
 

SkiOtter

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Yes those are the people I was thinking of. Hadn’t heard that about the newer one.
I can’t remember if our newer one actually came to us through that way or not but I do believe people said she was leaving 😬
 

JaynaAli

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Obviously I am not actually at that school but just in general, academia isn’t for everyone. All jobs have difficulties, but structure of academia can be difficult. Your job is based on performance, yes, but that performance is judged on way different things…student evals, grants you bring in, publications, etc. All stuff on top of how good of a specialist are you and do you make the right interpretations. That specific school is re-building a department from the ground up and its hard to be in charge of an entire department when you are both the only person there to do the job and also just fresh out of residency. It’s a lot to ask someone to teach your didactic courses, clinical rotations, and also read out cases/see patients without a good team of faculty to share the duties. Not to mention that these people became contractually obligated to work there three years prior to setting foot there…life changes a lot in three years. What you think you wanted at the start of residency isn’t necessarily what you’ll want at the end, just like how people change their interests during vet school. Add to that that radiologists can make 2-4 times more money in diagnostics/private practice than in academia makes it a hard sell anywhere, not just Illinois. In addition to making more money away from academia, you don’t have to spend your nights writing lectures, grading, doing research papers, etc. There’s a huge quality of life difference sometimes. Schools all over are hurting for radiologists. And cardiologists, and several other specialties. Some people love it but many don’t. I thought I wanted a clinical tract faculty position when I finished my residency but didn’t get one and ended up in diagnostics. My quality of life is way better than my residentmates who are teaching and I’m so happy with where I ended up. My two closest residentmates in academia enjoy their jobs and truly love teaching but I wouldn’t want to be working their hours. And I make 1.5x the money they do. So I don’t know if it’s a problem specific to UIUC (maybe there is a problem there, maybe not) but as a whole these are things why schools have trouble retaining specialists lately. Other schools like Oklahoma State are also down quite a few services too.
 
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SkiOtter

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Obviously I am not actually at that school but just in general, academia isn’t for everyone. All jobs have difficulties, but structure of academia can be difficult. Your job is based on performance, yes, but that performance is judged on way different things…student evals, grants you bring in, publications, etc. All stuff on top of how good of a specialist are you and do you make the right interpretations. That specific school is re-building a department from the ground up and its hard to be in charge of an entire department when you are both the only person there to do the job and also just fresh out of residency. It’s a lot to ask someone to teach your didactic courses, clinical rotations, and also read out cases/see patients without a good team of faculty to share the duties. Not to mention that these people became contractually obligated to work there three years prior to setting foot there…life changes a lot in three years. What you think you wanted at the start of residency isn’t necessarily what you’ll want at the end, just like how people change their interests during vet school. Add to that that radiologists can make 2-4 times more money in diagnostics/private practice than in academia makes it a hard sell anywhere, not just Illinois. In addition to making more money away from academia, you don’t have to spend your nights writing lectures, grading, doing research papers, etc. There’s a huge quality of life difference sometimes. Schools all over are hurting for radiologists. And cardiologists, and several other specialties. Some people love it but many don’t. I thought I wanted a clinical tract faculty position when I finished my residency but didn’t get one and ended up in diagnostics. My quality of life is way better than my residentmates who are teaching and I’m so happy with where I ended up. My two closest residentmates in academia enjoy their jobs and truly love teaching but I wouldn’t want to be working their hours. And I make 1.5x the money they do. So I don’t know if it’s a problem specific to UIUC (maybe there is a problem there, maybe not) but as a whole these are things why schools have trouble retaining specialists lately. Other schools like Oklahoma State are also down quite a few services too.
Pretty much yes to all of this, from what I’ve heard through the grapevine especially with having to be the only one in the department and have all of the work
 

BigCats

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This is definitely looking several years ahead for me, but who all are you guys planning on getting letters of recommendation from? Is it typically faculty at your school? I'm currently interested in zoo but imagine I'll be applying for small animal rotating internships first- is it frowned upon to have just letters from people in your particular area of interest? And is it preferred to get letters from faculty as opposed to veterinarians you meet at other practices through externships?
 

KCgophervet

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This is definitely looking several years ahead for me, but who all are you guys planning on getting letters of recommendation from? Is it typically faculty at your school? I'm currently interested in zoo but imagine I'll be applying for small animal rotating internships first- is it frowned upon to have just letters from people in your particular area of interest? And is it preferred to get letters from faculty as opposed to veterinarians you meet at other practices through externships?
(I speak from mostly experience with lab animal but I expect it applies across the board)
For residency, I would say most of your letters should be from veterinarians in the specialty you are applying to. They don't all have to be, but specialized fields in vet med are small so the more the merrier. At least one should be from a boarded person in said specialty. They should be from people who can speak honestly and positively about you, your work ethic, knowledge, experience, and dedication to the field of interest. Don't choose Dr. Big-Name-In-The-Field-But-Copies/PastesTheSameFormLetterForAllStudents over a vet who knows you really well and genuinely wants to help (I remember getting the exact same letter for 3 applicants one year, basically the letter was useless/meaningless and did not help their applications).

Cultivate good relationships with vets in the field NOW, or as soon as possible in your vet school career. Those relationships can last throughout your career and will stand out in better letters than from people who barely get the chance to meet you in a 2 week rotation (not saying it can't be done, but better to start early)!

Hope that helps!
 
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pinkpuppy9

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This is definitely looking several years ahead for me, but who all are you guys planning on getting letters of recommendation from? Is it typically faculty at your school? I'm currently interested in zoo but imagine I'll be applying for small animal rotating internships first- is it frowned upon to have just letters from people in your particular area of interest? And is it preferred to get letters from faculty as opposed to veterinarians you meet at other practices through externships?
For your small animal rotating, you'll want letters from any faculty/externship supervisor you felt you connected well with, spent a lot of time with, and whoever you feel can really speak to your clinical abilities and that you are decent to work with. Having a letter from a zoo person at this stage is not always necessary, unless you are trying to apply to a small animal/exotics/zoo combo internship, in which case I would say you should definitely have a relevant letter writer (particularly for the more competitive combo internships). It's worth mentioning that some would argue that if you indicate you intend to pursue the zoo specialty, not having a letter from a zoo person would look weird, even for a rotating internship.

When you get to specialty internships/residencies, the above is still true, but you really need letters from someone in the specialty you are applying to. It gets harder at this stage, as you are now farther out from the experiences where you met these people, and your connections get stale no matter how great you are - you were busy during fourth year, and you spent a year nearly dying as an intern. Doesn't leave a lot of time to keep in touch. Do your best to be an outstanding student (both academically and during relevant zoo experiences) so that they will first and foremost remember you and also be happy to write you a letter. Something I wish I did was also ask certain people if they would be willing to write me letters down the road - not necessarily for my rotating, but for the specialty internship cycles I would eventually be applying to. It makes the 'Hey, I know you haven't seen me in 2-3 years, but you told me I was great, how about a letter' email a little less awkward :rofl:
 
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battie

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My bestie accepted a sponsored IM position at Auburn for those that might be waiting to hear about that sort of shenanigans
 
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MOOSEygoosey

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Hey peeps, need some advice on my letter of intent. I'm struggling to find the balance between seeming confident and braggadocious. I had this glowing feedback from my ER rotation that I want to touch upon because ER is the career I want but I feel like I'm coming across as bragging. In other areas I seem like I'm doubting myself because 1) imposter syndrome is real but 2) I don't want to seem like an ass who is full of herself. Any advice? Should I touch upon the feedback or no?
 

cdo96

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Hey peeps, need some advice on my letter of intent. I'm struggling to find the balance between seeming confident and braggadocious. I had this glowing feedback from my ER rotation that I want to touch upon because ER is the career I want but I feel like I'm coming across as bragging. In other areas I seem like I'm doubting myself because 1) imposter syndrome is real but 2) I don't want to seem like an ass who is full of herself. Any advice? Should I touch upon the feedback or no?
I’m generally okay with some bragging. I followed the Kansas state three paragraph method for internship and residency LOR and have overall been pleased
 
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allygator13

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Hey peeps, need some advice on my letter of intent. I'm struggling to find the balance between seeming confident and braggadocious. I had this glowing feedback from my ER rotation that I want to touch upon because ER is the career I want but I feel like I'm coming across as bragging. In other areas I seem like I'm doubting myself because 1) imposter syndrome is real but 2) I don't want to seem like an ass who is full of herself. Any advice? Should I touch upon the feedback or no?

Letters of intent are uncomfortably braggy
 
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MOOSEygoosey

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Lol now I'm worried I didn't brag enough
 

futuredvm297

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Has anyone heard about NC State's internship? Rumor has it that they are so understaffed that they can only house 2 in-patients per service and that the current interns are rotating at private practices because of it. Not sure if true, but if it is, is it still like that? Trying to see if worth applying or not
 
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SkiOtter

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Has anyone heard about NC State's internship? Rumor has it that they are so understaffed that they can only house 2 in-patients per service and that the current interns are rotating at private practices because of it. Not sure if true, but if it is, is it still like that? Trying to see if worth applying or not
Ask the school for current intern contact info. If they refuse to give you any, it’s not worth applying for that red flag.
 
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TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo

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VIRMP application filled out, programs applied to, initial rank list filled out, 0/4 references complete! :laugh:

I would be stressing except that I went in expecting all of them to fill it out last minute on January 9th lol.
 
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Minnerbelle

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VIRMP application filled out, programs applied to, initial rank list filled out, 0/4 references complete! :laugh:

I would be stressing except that I went in expecting all of them to fill it out last minute on January 9th lol.
Good for you!

I’ve been asked to write a letter super last minute … and I have yet to receive a CV to work off of. Like I don’t even know what their career goals are. I’m tempted to write “This person is wonderful despite their woeful time management skills”
 
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MOOSEygoosey

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Application complete as of 10 AM this morning with my last reference letter :D
I already have an interview request so I'm really excited! This process was so stressful and I can't wait for it to be over but I'm really grateful that I finished it <3
 
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FrostySparrow

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Did my last letter submit less than an hour before deadline? Yup.

On the brighter, maybe a little less anxiety inducing side of things… I have an interview this week!
 
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futuredvm297

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Applied to NCSU, OSU, Texas A&M, UPenn, Friendship, VCA West LA, OregonSU, UGA, and UW! Interview at Friendship is scheduled!
 
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futurevet1234

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Applied to NCSU, OSU, Texas A&M, UPenn, Friendship, VCA West LA, OregonSU, UGA, and UW! Interview at Friendship is scheduled!
I applied to many of the same- NCSU, TA&M, Penn, Friendship, and UGA as well as Wheat Ridge, Cornell, Wisconsin, CSU, and Kansas!
 

mortonbranddvm

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What is the standard protocol for emailing small animal rotating internship sites you applied to? Is it a faux pas or expected? (for context I applied to all private practice no academic)
Thanks in advance !
 

FrostySparrow

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For whatever it’s worth, I haven’t emailed any sites first. One site emailed me for interview scheduling, haven’t heard from the rest.
A friend who is at a place I applied to had said the internship director had just finished looking over applications where last names start with “B”. So I’m sure they have a lot to comb through right now.
 

TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo

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I’ve emailed every program I’ve applied to with some additional questions and to request the emails of current interns. However, the majority of my applications were to academic institutions. I have some fairly specific things I want in an internship and most of the time that information wasn’t in the VIRMP listing.

I’ve had 2 programs (both private practice) reach out for interviews so far, both programs that I emailed back in October.

As an aside, it is interesting how much my rank list changed after talking with interns and the programs.
 
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WonderingStudent

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When should you start the process for looking for internships (through match or otherwise)? How many letters of rec should you shoot for?
 

KCgophervet

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I’ve emailed every program I’ve applied to with some additional questions and to request the emails of current interns. However, the majority of my applications were to academic institutions. I have some fairly specific things I want in an internship and most of the time that information wasn’t in the VIRMP listing.

I’ve had 2 programs (both private practice) reach out for interviews so far, both programs that I emailed back in October.

As an aside, it is interesting how much my rank list changed after talking with interns and the programs.
I think it's really important to talk to the places you're applying to. It is crazy how different things can be in practice vs on paper. Visiting residency locations during externships was how I was able to determine my rank list (along with interviews obviously). Some places that on paper seemed like a perfect fit were really not a good match for my personality/learning style/etc.
 

MOOSEygoosey

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Did anyone apply to Wheat Ridge? I emailed asking about an interview and they emailed me back saying they aren't doing "additional interviews" so idk if that means I'm not initially a candidate they selected or they're not interviewing. They're VIRMP page doesn't say anything about an interview so idk what's happening.
 
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