A Lighthouse, A Man, A City...A BioShock WW Game

[Lupin21]

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I know other people already corrected you about this, but... "pinned down"?

Meaning, gave suspicions of one person of several that might maybe be sketchy, lol no, do not ever let that clear Lupin.

I operate under a strict "lynch Lupin 2/3rds into the game if she is still alive" protocol and honestly just recommend everyone do the same for your sanity.

(also I definitely fell asleep on top of my computer with this quote open and woke up to gffsfssfbfgassssssssssssssssssssssssss text all down the screen, lol)

meh, I called him out almost immediately, can be confirmed via chaos pming.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

The tracker really died without telling us anything. Why didn't vis offer up any details? It would have been really helpful if they had offered us anything.

 

[Lawpy]

contingency yeet katachomp

 

[mkg323]

hello hello,
I can talk again so please feel free to send any questions my way. I spend most of D3 away from my laptop and would skim things on my phone when I had time, so I can't give reads at the moment, but I'll try and answer as much as I can

 

[Animal Midwife]

My POE remains mostly the same. I think it's overdue time for kata to be heavily pressured and I want Cyndia seriously on the board.

Unfortunately, I know why Vis didn't reveal. It always feels good to withhold.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Contingency Yeet Cyndia

 

[Trilt]

I am mildly kerfluffed.

Like it's one thing to go down if you're a vanillager without claiming, but now we have nothing to work from two nights of a villager tracking. Even if they weren't anything exciting they were something, and if they had been used in a village forward manner that contributes to defense. I don't understand this at all.

 

[Crayola227]

My POE remains mostly the same. I think it's overdue time for kata to be heavily pressured and I want Cyndia seriously on the board.

Unfortunately, I know why Vis didn't reveal. It always feels good to withhold.

Out of spite?

 

[Animal Midwife]

Out of spite?

Yes, and because I wouldn't have revealed either.

 

[Dinashadow]

And we're back.

Idk who was responsible for that post restriction, but that was simultaneously the most frustrating and most fun 36 hours of WW I've ever had.

Just the way WW is supposed to be played

 

[Crayola227]

meh, I called him out almost immediately, can be confirmed via chaos pming.

I'm finding your timing of coming to thread pretty sus. I know IRL stuff, but it's so spot on for after deadline.

 

[supershorty]

Yes, and because I wouldn't have revealed either.

How pro-village of you.

 

[genny]

It always feels good to withhold.

You can't say stuff like this and then call out other players for anti-village play.

 

[Crayola227]

Yes, and because I wouldn't have revealed either.

Why not?

 

[Trilt]

Unfortunately, I know why Vis didn't reveal. It always feels good to withhold.

It feels good to NOT DIE from getting lynched, too. We have a dead wolf seer. The chances of a wolf seer + tracker is significantly less. Holding out is stupid.

Edit: stupid is harsh because I'm annoyed about being wrong. Holding out is at least pretty obviously anti-village and I get very freaking frustrated being lynched as village so don't understand pulling out all tools.

 

[Crayola227]

My hope is just that Visc didn't get results either night for some reason, so besides revealing what the notification would have been, they didn't have much data to help us with. That's happened to me and is my hope rather than spite.

I know that's happened to me before.

 

[Lupin21]

On page 63, but guys, there is a way to feel the presence of ulterior motives on thread, so that is when reads don't necessarily have reason behind them. I get tired of the you give me exact reasons. I get that is the most quantitative method to help others see, but sometimes it is simply a qualitative measure that isn't represented by quotes.

 

[Dinashadow]

I'm pretty sure she tracked me N1. I was being watched by cameras or something like that, unless there's a similar role out there.

 

[Animal Midwife]

You can't say stuff like this and then call out other players for anti-village play.

I never said it was a good/useful habit. I just know Vis's behavior didn't come from out of thin air.

 

[Lupin21]

I think it's OK to wing it and just rely heavily on poast analysis. It's what I do.

It's easier on the brain, fun, you can catch wolves with it, and you're less likely to fall for wolf things that make VCA less useful (bussing, converts).

The downside is you lose the value of VCA and more holistic analysis, and some 4D chess.

why does this sound like you're perhaps targeting the way I play with that last sentence...

 

[Trilt]

On page 63, but guys, there is a way to feel the presence of ulterior motives on thread, so that is when reads don't necessarily have reason behind them. I get tired of the you give me exact reasons. I get that is the most quantitative method to help others see, but sometimes it is simply a qualitative measure that isn't represented by quotes.

And you can answer that way if that's your reason, but I don't think it's wrong to ask people to give justifications.

 

[Lupin21]

At end of 67. AM, it really feels like these wolves want you dead. lol

 

[Animal Midwife]

At end of 67. AM, it really feels like these wolves want you dead. lol

They do Lupin. But I think the bloc's going to be strong enough to power through it.

 

[Lupin21]

why does SDN change dinguses to dinguses what the heck

One of the funnier changes rather that straight up ***

 

[sunshinefl]

********
I thought we agreed to stop being so rude especially to dead players who can’t even respond.
*********

 

[Lupin21]

I really hope last min vote swapping to "test" people isn't going to become a normal "village" strategy.

I use it when I have a good suspicion of one or two people and the votes are close enough. It is valid strategy.

 

[Trilt]

I'm pretty sure she tracked me N1. I was being watched by cameras or something like that, unless there's a similar role out there.

That is interesting because there were cameras mentioned in the n2 write up:

Smoke filled the air, then dissipated with a gust of wind. Security cameras swiveled as a pair of figures ran past. Then the sound of electricity crackling, and a great and powerful blast.

So I really hope if Vis actually saw something she at least passed is along to someone in her group. Because if she just held onto info it's just... frustrating.

 

[Lupin21]

I'm finding your timing of coming to thread pretty sus. I know IRL stuff, but it's so spot on for after deadline.

Vote me and get it over with. I am tired when I feel it is obvious I'm town and people refuse to see it. Still get mad at lynching me on principal posts as well. heh

 

[Lupin21]

Yes, and because I wouldn't have revealed either.

That is throwing the game and deserves a time out from playing if so.

 

[Trilt]

At end of 67. AM, it really feels like these wolves want you dead. lol

And on the contrary, I feel like the people who put up other votes when Vis was an easy mislynch are moved slightly more village in my eyes. There's minimal value to it - AM has already been under reasonable suspicion - and it brings attention...

 

[holdthemayo]

********
I thought we agreed to stop being so rude especially to dead players who can’t even respond.
*********

Spoiler

 

[Lupin21]

And you can answer that way if that's your reason, but I don't think it's wrong to ask people to give justifications.

I am not saying people can't ask I suppose, just can't immediate put in wolf pile when ya can't define it. Good news is if village can get some right lynches, I feel village is obvious even if this is some of their play style. I'm not saying it should be for everything, just sometimes a person gets that twinge of wrong even though the words read fine.

 

[Crayola227]

I'm pretty sure she tracked me N1. I was being watched by cameras or something like that, unless there's a similar role out there.

So it makes sense she didn't say anything, about that night at least.

 

[Animal Midwife]

That is throwing the game and deserves a time out from playing if so.

I try to fight the urge now-a-days (mainly by avoiding getting misyeeted in the first place). I just feel sad because it may have been a vibe she picked up from how I manatored.

 

[Lupin21]

And on the contrary, I feel like the people who put up other votes when Vis was an easy mislynch are moved slightly more village in my eyes. There's minimal value to it - AM has already been under reasonable suspicion - and it brings attention...

I hate being on the village vote as a wolf when they die. I am sure others are that way. Plus, they are supposed to be scattered to help throw off village VCA

 

[Crayola227]

why does this sound like you're perhaps targeting the way I play with that last sentence...

Paranoia? Someone else used it about you pejoratively possibly, but not me.

I'm being serious that there's a level of play that is insanely more involved and complicated then reading, replying, and hitting the like button. I'm talking more about my own play or lack thereof more than anything.

Defensiveness noted lol.

 

[Lupin21]

Paranoia? Someone else used it about you pejoratively possibly, but not me.

I'm being serious that there's a level of play that is insanely more involved and complicated then reading, replying, and hitting the like button. I'm talking more about my own play or lack thereof more than anything.

Defensiveness noted lol.

It wasn't defensiveness, it was simply an excellent description of my way of playing. haha

 

[Trilt]

************

********
I thought we agreed to stop being so rude especially to dead players who can’t even respond.
*********

I promise I'm a nice person, I just get a little intense into these games lol.

************

 

[Crayola227]

I use it when I have a good suspicion of one or two people and the votes are close enough. It is valid strategy.

I trust you or like AM or LIS to do it, but first we had Zenge do it in a game, then I think mayo, and now Lawpy. If nooby villagers start doing it it's gonna provide some wolf cover or lead to misyeets.

In fact, pretty sure a noob villager got misyeeted over it.

 

[supershorty]

I want to address these few posts now since I couldn't figure out a good way to gif it earlier. I really don't feel good about these statements from AM. I have been wolf leaning her for a while (see: ISO post for more details), and statements like the ones in the spoiler are why. Because these types of arguments, only considering one side, or twisting words - I have deja vu. I just saw this behavior from wolf!AM in the GGoats game. I put my vote on her on D2 but it was clear it wasn't going to go anywhere and also had a wolf lean on Zenge, so putting my vote there didn't bother me. In the GGoats game, wolf!AM didn't do blatant manipulation, but most people were hesitant to yeet her regardless - it was pocketing, but not active pocketing. I didn't see any interactions between AM and Zenge that made me think they couldn't be compatible. My ISO had a lot in it - but these posts today are something that also belongs in there.

I don't know how to read Lupin because I've never played with her and all the vets who have don't seem to have a confident read on her, but I haven't gotten a strong village lean. I'm starting to wonder about the possibility of packmates.

Spoiler: Not a gif!

I'm strongly wolfreading Vis so the push there feels good from Trilt. Lupin saying there was highly likely a wolf joke voting for me immediately after a now confirmed wolf joke voted for me feels really good.

Well, that just seems silly to say after also saying April was good for doing the same thing. I can't clear her on this alone, but it's enough to keep her out of my immediate POE for now.

Where did I say to hail Lupin? I just said it looked good. Outside of this though, I seriously doubt you'd call anything strictly "village Lupin" anyway unless she's been seered.

What I pointed out while I was in GIFspeak was that this wasn't a logical conclusion to draw. Lupin saying that April was likely town or that there was likely a wolf on the AM salt vote wagon could be 3 things:
1.) Coincidence/luck
2.) Lupin's a crazy good player and just has mad skillz
3.) Lupin is part of an informed minority and knew affiliations, so knew those statements would be correct.

I haven't seen anything from Lupin that would make me hard clear her as village, and from what I'm seeing from the vets who have played with her more, they pretty much never would hard clear her. And I know how pro-village village!AM is - I find it unlikely that she would just dismiss that possibility without evidence. Between this, the misconstruing of arguments that I highlighted in my ISO, and today, I haven't seen anything that's making me revise my read of her. I've only seen things that make me believe it more. Some of it is based on a gut feeling, but a lot of it is based on seeing the same kinds of behaviors that I just saw.

At end of 67. AM, it really feels like these wolves want you dead. lol

They do Lupin. But I think the bloc's going to be strong enough to power through it.

These feel painfully WIFOMy to me. Painfully.

I've had a really rough symptoms day and I don't have the energy to do an updated ISO on AM or to ISO Lupin tonight. I'm sorry, I just can't do it now. I will tomorrow. I'm trying to info dump a little tonight because I would really like to sleep in tomorrow if I can, and I want people to have as much time to think about it as they want/need.

 

[Lupin21]

I trust you or like AM or LIS to do it, but first we had Zenge do it in a game, then I think mayo, and now Lawpy. If nooby villagers start doing it it's gonna provide some wolf cover or lead to misyeets.

In fact, pretty sure a noob villager got misyeeted over it.

Only way to learn is to jump in the deep end!

 

[Crayola227]

N

I trust you or like AM or LIS to do it, but first we had Zenge do it in a game, then I think mayo, and now Lawpy. If nooby villagers start doing it it's gonna provide some wolf cover or lead to misyeets.

In fact, pretty sure a noob villager got misyeeted over it.

Note, doing it "just to see what happens." That's different than Lawper's claim it was a true waffle/change of mind for a reason.

Although now I think I might have done it in a game.

Should be discouraged if you don't have an idea what you're looking for as a test response.

 

[Lupin21]

I want to address these few posts now since I couldn't figure out a good way to gif it earlier. I really don't feel good about these statements from AM. I have been wolf leaning her for a while (see: ISO post for more details), and statements like the ones in the spoiler are why. Because these types of arguments, only considering one side, or twisting words - I have deja vu. I just saw this behavior from wolf!AM in the GGoats game. I put my vote on her on D2 but it was clear it wasn't going to go anywhere and also had a wolf lean on Zenge, so putting my vote there didn't bother me. In the GGoats game, wolf!AM didn't do blatant manipulation, but most people were hesitant to yeet her regardless - it was pocketing, but not active pocketing. I didn't see any interactions between AM and Zenge that made me think they couldn't be compatible. My ISO had a lot in it - but these posts today are something that also belongs in there.

I don't know how to read Lupin because I've never played with her and all the vets who have don't seem to have a confident read on her, but I haven't gotten a strong village lean. I'm starting to wonder about the possibility of packmates.

Spoiler: Not a gif!

What I pointed out while I was in GIFspeak was that this wasn't a logical conclusion to draw. Lupin saying that April was likely town or that there was likely a wolf on the AM salt vote wagon could be 3 things:
1.) Coincidence/luck
2.) Lupin's a crazy good player and just has mad skillz
3.) Lupin is part of an informed minority and knew affiliations, so knew those statements would be correct.

I haven't seen anything from Lupin that would make me hard clear her as village, and from what I'm seeing from the vets who have played with her more, they pretty much never would hard clear her. And I know how pro-village village!AM is - I find it unlikely that she would just dismiss that possibility without evidence. Between this, the misconstruing of arguments that I highlighted in my ISO, and today, I haven't seen anything that's making me revise my read of her. I've only seen things that make me believe it more. Some of it is based on a gut feeling, but a lot of it is based on seeing the same kinds of behaviors that I just saw.



These feel painfully WIFOMy to me. Painfully.

I've had a really rough symptoms day and I don't have the energy to do an updated ISO on AM or to ISO Lupin tonight. I'm sorry, I just can't do it now. I will tomorrow. I'm trying to info dump a little tonight because I would really like to sleep in tomorrow if I can, and I want people to have as much time to think about it as they want/need.

You think this because I still have you in my pile of possible wolves. I think I may even be the only one. haha

 

[Crayola227]

Vote me and get it over with. I am tired when I feel it is obvious I'm town and people refuse to see it. Still get mad at lynching me on principal posts as well. heh

I have other flips I want to see first for players wolfier than you, doesn't mean I don't want to pressure you and see how you respond to being sussed.

 

[supershorty]

You think this because I still have you in my pile of possible wolves.

I don't. I even said earlier that I tend to village read people who sus me with logical arguments - which is why I was village leaning Trilt pretty early on.

 

[Lupin21]

I don't. I even said earlier that I tend to village read people who sus me with logical arguments - which is why I was village leaning Trilt pretty early on.

So what do you make of me jumping on April about who told her not to trust me? You think that came from a wolf frame of mind?

 

[supershorty]

So what do you make of me jumping on April about who told her not to trust me? You think that came from a wolf frame of mind?

I'm not going to base a read on a single interaction. Like I said, I'll ISO your posts tomorrow. Then draw conclusions from there.

 

[Lupin21]

I'm not going to base a read on a single interaction. Like I said, I'll ISO your posts tomorrow. Then draw conclusions from there.

I am saying you have to look at motivations for posts/questions to other players. I jumped on April for that post because it possibly meant she was a noob wolf and if a vet was a wolf with her, she would be told to be careful interacting with me. See now? That is why you look deeper than the words.

Eh, whatever. I'm tired. Still think alley is the next vote.

contingency vote alley

 

[Lupin21]

Addendum to my version of sass:

 

[mkg323]

My thoughts/comments through page 58:

I was the rezzer.

I was torn between rezing April or Barks, but leaned towards Barks in the slim chance they got their power back (which I know is very unlikely).

Kinda weird to reveal this unprompted? Not sure if that means its wolfy, but definitely odd?

I'm not sure if a rapidly growing wagon in itself is sketchy since it can be very useful to catch a wolf off guard with little to no time to defend. I've seen this happening a few times before.

Or its a rapidly growing wagon full of wolves right before the close with not much of an argument?

I'm confused by @mkg323 saying she was watched N1 after zenge told me he seered her, unless she just misinterpreted her night results. I'm trying to figure out if zenge would seer a packmate with the intent to clear both of them. He messaged me very soon after I asked him his read on her on thread to tell me that she was definitely village.

This might be too much WIFOM though

Someone took a close look at me N1. If Zenge was an affiliation seer, I take that to mean there are 2 factions. role seer = 1 faction. I think he seered me because I village read him D1, and he probably thought I was an easy pocket, which I was.

I will a bit later today. Still 9 am Fantasyland.

just leaving this to remind me to look for them, cause I haven't seen them yet

A wolf seer can be either a role seer or affiliation seer, it depends on the mod, and I'm not sure if the write up said which one, they don't always clarify in the flip. I have definitely seen wolf role seer in single ball set ups. I don't think wolf Af seer makes sense in a single ball. Overall I personally am leaning to theory of multiball with this bit of data.

what do you mean by single ball/multiball here? is it like single or double pack/faction?

I don’t know if you’ll get an explanation from mkg today. I think she’s silenced.

genny gets village points for bringing this up. I dropped info on her right before night close, and she could have very easily not shared the info or even led a wagon to get me out as a potential packmate for z if she were a wolf.

She said something in PM before the write up was posted. I think it was related to item use though, and not someone’s role.

correct, however, I have reason to believe based on my N2 right up that Z was a role seer, not an affiliation seer

I'm beginning to think if there's a wolf between Cyndia, mayos and AM, it's least likely to be Cyndias given her MKG push early on.

I'm getting ahead of myself, but I remember from my original read-through that Cyndia doesn't have me in my wolf reads anymore. The original push against me D1 left me very confused, as it seemed to come out of nowhere, gain a little talk (mayo mentioning twinges, lawpy not liking my reads, etc) and then disappear (except for Cyndia, but she swapped reasons) just as quickly, right after I unyeeted AM and I think Z defended me. I could definitely see one of Cyndia/Lawpy/Mayo as a wolf to help fabricate this weak pressure on me so that Z could swoop in, defend, and pocket me

I suppose. I can't clear mkg either but the watch notification seemed interesting to me. Sucks that she's silenced because I would like to talk to her more today.

I'm free to answer questions now! Given that its very likely that the wolves know my role/affiliation I don't really have any info to hide so ask away