A Lighthouse, A Man, A City...A BioShock WW Game

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I'm going to ping you, and you are to like this post (or respond to it) by the end of the afternoon Monday so we can see who's silenced. Avoiding/delaying either is anti-village.

@pawprintsandponytails @holdthemayo @Crayola227 @vetschoolsletmeinplease @Ms Procrastinator @alleycat03 @katashark @Chaostrodon @LetItSnow
john mulaney yes GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
I took a closer look at Lupin's posts like I said I would last night. In earlier gamestate, I really didn't see anything that jumped out at me, although I've taken a second look at those early posts about April and the AM wagon wolf possibility (which I talked about last night in this post, so I'm not going to rehash why AM's comments on those pinged me). Lupin did say early that Zenge was one of her top wolf reads, so if it was bussing, it was early, but she didn't actually put a vote on him until after Dina role revealed. She said she was on pleasy based on VCA. @Lupin21, how are you reading pleasy now?

As we've gotten further into the game, there have been a few things that pinged me. Again, mentioned some last night, but I'll elaborate more below.

April ----> towny
Hmmmm. One of the Am votes likely wolfy.
Talked about this a lot in last night's post, don't want to repeat myself, but it's here. It's not these posts themselves that pinged me, it was AM's weird conclusion to read her as village based on these being right. When AM initially said that, I pointed out that it wasn't a logical conclusion to come to given the multiple options, and then I elaborated on that last night once I could use words again. It was a weird conclusion for her to come to, and a weirder one to double down on.

And who told you to be careful about me. Inquiring minds want to know.
I mostly inferred it from these two posts. I thought they were different people but nope, just Genny and Genny 😄
So... this is the extent of Lupin "jumping on April" about who told her not to trust her. I really don't think this is enough of an interaction to read anything into it. This is all of it. So then the fact that Lupin pointed to this last night after I said that I was a little sus of her and was thinking about the possibility of her being packmates with AM given other weird interactions gives me kind of a strange feeling. It almost feels a little overly defensive to point to 2 sentences and be like "well what do you think about THAT" and then get a little condescending about it when I said I wouldn't base my read on one solo interaction.
So what do you make of me jumping on April about who told her not to trust me? You think that came from a wolf frame of mind?
I'm not going to base a read on a single interaction. Like I said, I'll ISO your posts tomorrow. Then draw conclusions from there.
I am saying you have to look at motivations for posts/questions to other players. I jumped on April for that post because it possibly meant she was a noob wolf and if a vet was a wolf with her, she would be told to be careful interacting with me. See now? That is why you look deeper than the words.
Like sure, this is a possibility, but this whole interaction with me just felt a little ... trying too hard.

Oh geez. I don't feel like I'm that good a wolf to never agree to read me village. :/
Self-deprecating statements always give me the tiniest of pings but I don't put much stock in them on their own.

On page 63, but guys, there is a way to feel the presence of ulterior motives on thread, so that is when reads don't necessarily have reason behind them. I get tired of the you give me exact reasons. I get that is the most quantitative method to help others see, but sometimes it is simply a qualitative measure that isn't represented by quotes.
I get that people play the game differently, but it's not at all unreasonable for people to ask for explanations of your reads. I don't know if this really pinged me, but I made a note of it because I think the more information that the village bloc shares with each other when it comes to their reads, the easier it is to put wolves in a box.

And then we get to the interaction that really made my alarm bells go off.
At end of 67. AM, it really feels like these wolves want you dead. lol
They do Lupin. But I think the bloc's going to be strong enough to power through it.
I have a wolf read on AM. I've elaborated A LOT on why I have a wolf read on AM. This interaction just felt like so much WIFOM, it hurt. Between the weird AM reasoning for Lupin being village (based on those early posts about April and AM wagon having a wolf on it) and this interaction, I started feeling very uneasy.

You think this because I still have you in my pile of possible wolves. I think I may even be the only one. haha
I had literally just explained, with quotes that I'd pulled, etc., why I thought that there was a possibility of wolf!Lupin. So no, it's not what she's presenting here. This is the same kind of intentional misdirection that wolf!AM likes to do.

I am still sorting out the first 5-6 posters. I have zenge in my top red spot. AM is likely village. Cray is likely village. Genny is always one I watch closely.

Lawpy seems normal, alissa seems normal though I'd like to smack her over her vote for my boss, um, looking forward to Trilt and the rest of the crew who are going to eyeroll at a lot of the discussion so far.

Chaos I will also throw into my villa lean pile based on interactions currently, despite the vote for me. haha
Timing of the AM vote, and the over willingness to hop on the pointless townie toss out for april as something to push. I dunno, participating but not sure of the motives yet.
^ This is talking about Zenge.

She's a co mod. lol

I am between mayo and zenge I think right now from reading. MKG I saw is pretty new, so I think nai on the panic over a vote or two. Trilt came in strong. Will lean village for now, but definitely good enough to blend with village, so will toss her and genny together in my to watch pile. haha

Vote mayo

to see how this feels for now.
I was a little surprised by this just because she didn't talk much about mayo to that point, and mayo was voicing suspicions of Zenge pretty early on. Her vote remained there the entire time and was the only vote on him. I don't want to make an assumption about what she was thinking, but Lupin, were you seeing mayo/Zenge as possibly W/W or did you think one might be village? How do you feel about mayo now?

I think visc is village for me. Chaos is still reading village. Lawpy, AM, and Cray are village. Trilt and LIS I have green. Everyone else will have to woo me. haha
As far as I can tell, Lupin was never on the Vissy wagon. I have to admit I didn't keep my vote tally tracker going while I was restricted to GIFspeak, so I can't reference the last minute flurries as quickly, but I'm pretty sure her vote was never there. This post is from before Zenge was yeeted but I wanted to pull it because of the Vissy read.

Nope. I am going off the VCA and pleasy hasn't said anything yet today to make me move. Zenge, you and mayo are still person's of interest. So much good content, but occasional twinges as a post seems off. Shorty and alley I'd love to figure out in the next cycle or two if I can. I think I have Dina in village as well.

That's all that comes to mind at the moment. I think kata and cyndia are probably village, but they are ones that can suddenly come out of the bushes with fangs for me too, so they're my Lupins. haha
She did move her vote to Zenge, but after the big reveal, and was one of the last 4 on that wagon. She voted alley last night and I understand the reasoning - I think alley may be a misyeet just because this seems like how she's played in other games where she was village (but we also misyeeted her in those for playing like this, so I understand the conclusion to yeet her).

Conclusion: I don't have a STRONG wolf lean on Lupin, but I don't have a village lean either. Wolfy side of neutral, and will continue to reevaluate with new evidence.
 
I took a closer look at Lupin's posts like I said I would last night. In earlier gamestate, I really didn't see anything that jumped out at me, although I've taken a second look at those early posts about April and the AM wagon wolf possibility (which I talked about last night in this post, so I'm not going to rehash why AM's comments on those pinged me). Lupin did say early that Zenge was one of her top wolf reads, so if it was bussing, it was early, but she didn't actually put a vote on him until after Dina role revealed. She said she was on pleasy based on VCA. @Lupin21, how are you reading pleasy now?

As we've gotten further into the game, there have been a few things that pinged me. Again, mentioned some last night, but I'll elaborate more below.

Talked about this a lot in last night's post, don't want to repeat myself, but it's here. It's not these posts themselves that pinged me, it was AM's weird conclusion to read her as village based on these being right. When AM initially said that, I pointed out that it wasn't a logical conclusion to come to given the multiple options, and then I elaborated on that last night once I could use words again. It was a weird conclusion for her to come to, and a weirder one to double down on.



So... this is the extent of Lupin "jumping on April" about who told her not to trust her. I really don't think this is enough of an interaction to read anything into it. This is all of it. So then the fact that Lupin pointed to this last night after I said that I was a little sus of her and was thinking about the possibility of her being packmates with AM given other weird interactions gives me kind of a strange feeling. It almost feels a little overly defensive to point to 2 sentences and be like "well what do you think about THAT" and then get a little condescending about it when I said I wouldn't base my read on one solo interaction.



Like sure, this is a possibility, but this whole interaction with me just felt a little ... trying too hard.


Self-deprecating statements always give me the tiniest of pings but I don't put much stock in them on their own.


I get that people play the game differently, but it's not at all unreasonable for people to ask for explanations of your reads. I don't know if this really pinged me, but I made a note of it because I think the more information that the village bloc shares with each other when it comes to their reads, the easier it is to put wolves in a box.

And then we get to the interaction that really made my alarm bells go off.


I have a wolf read on AM. I've elaborated A LOT on why I have a wolf read on AM. This interaction just felt like so much WIFOM, it hurt. Between the weird AM reasoning for Lupin being village (based on those early posts about April and AM wagon having a wolf on it) and this interaction, I started feeling very uneasy.


I had literally just explained, with quotes that I'd pulled, etc., why I thought that there was a possibility of wolf!Lupin. So no, it's not what she's presenting here. This is the same kind of intentional misdirection that wolf!AM likes to do.

^ This is talking about Zenge.


I was a little surprised by this just because she didn't talk much about mayo to that point, and mayo was voicing suspicions of Zenge pretty early on. Her vote remained there the entire time and was the only vote on him. I don't want to make an assumption about what she was thinking, but Lupin, were you seeing mayo/Zenge as possibly W/W or did you think one might be village? How do you feel about mayo now?


As far as I can tell, Lupin was never on the Vissy wagon. I have to admit I didn't keep my vote tally tracker going while I was restricted to GIFspeak, so I can't reference the last minute flurries as quickly, but I'm pretty sure her vote was never there. This post is from before Zenge was yeeted but I wanted to pull it because of the Vissy read.


She did move her vote to Zenge, but after the big reveal, and was one of the last 4 on that wagon. She voted alley last night and I understand the reasoning - I think alley may be a misyeet just because this seems like how she's played in other games where she was village (but we also misyeeted her in those for playing like this, so I understand the conclusion to yeet her).

Conclusion: I don't have a STRONG wolf lean on Lupin, but I don't have a village lean either. Wolfy side of neutral, and will continue to reevaluate with new evidence.
I guess it just kills me when people don't find motivation to be worth reading into. And I don't bus unless I have to. That is pretty much a fact. I am a power wolf player who tries to take as many of my fellow wolves with me as possible. And zenge made a great turn around from his initial posting. He started putting in the work and it payed off. He moved down the list. And I knew there was a wolf in that D1 lynch, and please was next beyond z. Still is there because as was noted, if people are getting notified, z and his mates knew he was in for it.
 
You just did if you don't get why that post with April was important.
I'm not going to argue with you if you're going to be deliberately obtuse about what I'm saying. I don't have the energy for it.

It was one interaction, that easily could be a joke or could be something more, and there was not more to it beyond those two sentences. No, I won't clear you based on that alone. Sorry. It could be the motivation you're saying, and it just as easily could be meaningless.
 
I'm not going to argue with you if you're going to be deliberately obtuse about what I'm saying. I don't have the energy for it.

It was one interaction, that easily could be a joke or could be something more, and there was not more to it. No, I won't clear you based on that alone. Sorry.
And that is likely why village has trouble, at least from some of the games I've read. I'd love for you to make a better case against me than I never actually voted z. And what are your thoughts on alley right now? If you have me as a wolf, you must think she is village right now, especially if I already "bussed" another wolf who happened to be the seer. 🙂
 
Why are you getting so defensive when I literally said that I'm leaning the wolfy side of NEUTRAL?

And that is likely why village has trouble, at least from some of the games I've read. I'd love for you to make a better case against me than I never actually voted z. And what are your thoughts on alley right now? If you have me as a wolf, you must think she is village right now, especially if I already "bussed" another wolf who happened to be the seer. 🙂
Again, this is misrepresenting what I did in my ISO and how I came to my conclusions, so yeah. I don't like that.

I historically have misyeeted alley for exactly the behavior I've seen from her in this game so far, so I have her in neutrals. I have never played with wolf!alley though (I totted a game where she wolfed, but I had life things going on and didn't follow it all that closely). I'm not comfortable village reading her, but I think there are wolfier candidates who would be a better priority for yeeting.
 
I guess it just kills me when people don't find motivation to be worth reading into. And I don't bus unless I have to. That is pretty much a fact. I am a power wolf player who tries to take as many of my fellow wolves with me as possible. And zenge made a great turn around from his initial posting. He started putting in the work and it payed off. He moved down the list. And I knew there was a wolf in that D1 lynch, and please was next beyond z. Still is there because as was noted, if people are getting notified, z and his mates knew he was in for it.
Oh geez, the second part about wolf mates equals I still have please in my POE
 
Why are you getting so defensive when I literally said that I'm leaning the wolfy side of NEUTRAL?


Again, this is misrepresenting what I did in my ISO and how I came to my conclusions, so yeah. I don't like that.

I historically have misyeeted alley for exactly the behavior I've seen from her in this game so far, so I have her in neutrals. I have never played with wolf!alley though (I totted a game where she wolfed, but I had life things going on and didn't follow it all that closely). I'm not comfortable village reading her, but I think there are wolfier candidates who would be a better priority for yeeting.
Ok, but with the current lists, which person would give you the most information on the people you can't read.
 
Have you considered that you're doing the very tunneling you said you were going to be conscious of in the future?
Ah no, see, the difference is that this time I'm constantly going back and reevaluating my reads on people based on new information. So not quite the same. But I keep seeing things from you that ping me.

Really? AM is your wolf. Welp, I don't get it. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You know that the people on AM yesterday are the ones in most people POE right now though, yes?
Yeah, like Vissy who everyone made a big wagon on and then she flipped village.
I've explained my thinking on alley.
I'm inclined to think please is just a sketch villager after doing my reevaluation of her the other day (look at that, reevaluating someone I was tunnelling on before).
Not as sure about mayo but he and Z went back and forth a lot, which I've noted.
 
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Ah no, see, the difference is that this time I'm constantly going back and reevaluating my reads on people based on new information. So not quite the same. But I keep seeing things from you that ping me.
You're not reevaluating on me and it's making things really rough for how others will read you. Don't get mixed in with the wrong crowd. I'm encouraging you to take a step back and ask yourself whether the people I'm pushing look village at all.
Yeah, like Vissy who everyone made a big wagon on and then she flipped village.
Vis was forced because I wasn't allowed to use Cyndia as the counter.
 
You're not reevaluating on me
No, I am. You can take a step back to reevaluate in light of new posts, and then still come to the same conclusion. Reevaluation doesn't automatically mean changing your mind.
 
Ah no, see, the difference is that this time I'm constantly going back and reevaluating my reads on people based on new information. So not quite the same. But I keep seeing things from you that ping me.


Yeah, like Vissy who everyone made a big wagon on and then she flipped village.
I've explained my thinking on alley.
I'm inclined to think please is just a sketch villager after doing my re-evaluation of her the other day (look at that, reevaluating someone I was tunnelling on before).
Not as sure about mayo but he and Z went back and forth a lot, which I've noted.
I am satisfied with that. Current read on cray? I forgot she wasn't on for the z lynch, and has voted please twice and viz yesterday.
 
No, I am. You can take a step back to reevaluate in light of new posts, and then still come to the same conclusion. Reevaluation doesn't automatically mean changing your mind.
I don't know what to tell you except there's some serious obliviousness happening and I hope you come around before they shove you in the POE.
 
Why are you getting so defensive when I literally said that I'm leaning the wolfy side of NEUTRAL?


Again, this is misrepresenting what I did in my ISO and how I came to my conclusions, so yeah. I don't like that.

I historically have misyeeted alley for exactly the behavior I've seen from her in this game so far, so I have her in neutrals. I have never played with wolf!alley though (I totted a game where she wolfed, but I had life things going on and didn't follow it all that closely). I'm not comfortable village reading her, but I think there are wolfier candidates who would be a better priority for yeeting.
Missed the first sentence. I will always defend if I am not in the village section. It is how one probably should play the game as by people actually posting and making sure they are not misvoted is to my way of thinking even more important than wolf hunting. If villagers read village, makes it easier to pin point wolves. No?
 
I am satisfied with that. Current read on cray? I forgot she wasn't on for the z lynch, and has voted please twice and viz yesterday.
Leaning village on Cray, mainly for the following reasons:
-I'm not faulting people for the please votes, especially on D1. I was wolf reading her at that point also, and then started rethinking that on D2 after she had posted a few things that tonally just sounded like defeated/frustrated villager to me. Cray also put her vote on please on D2 early (only the 5th vote made during that day cycle) and stayed on it the entire time, and like you mentioned, wasn't there for yeet close. Cray's often on at kind of unusual hours (at least relative to where I am) and I've seen her miss vote close before just because of life. I think most people are still reading please as either neutral or slight wolf based on her posts earlier in the game; I don't think Cray voting there twice is unreasonable at all.

-Similarly, she was the first one on the Vissy vote and had said what she found sketchy about her posts. Again, I see the reasoning behind the Vissy vote (I even was on it super briefly myself and then hopped off, and after the analyses that Vis posted of her reads, felt good about that decision).

-I haven't played with Cray when she's wolfing, but what I've seen in her post content and tone is very similar to the other games we've both been in (and she was village in all of those, no 3p/chaos/etc.).
 
I’m not understanding this connection

What AM said. The cigarettes seem to allow a person to act on two people at night instead of one and genny and I recieved the same blocking flavor text last night. The use of cigarettes causes silencing like it did for mkg yesterday, so the person who blocked genny and I both should be silenced today. If we assume the blocking is wolfy then the silenced player is probably a wolf.
 
Okay so I didn't want to put this out there before, but now that they're basically dead, I figured it was a protector that stopped Dina's kill N2.
 
That and would her action have gone through if she was NK'd??
Block is usually ahead of kill in order of operations... WZ did mix things up to my confusion in the noob game, but I'd personally be kind of annoyed as a blocker if my block didn't do **** to kills, lol. It's not unheard of but not normal.

This was the OoO from the noob game, and afterwards we discussed that the block -> redirect was swapped from normal:
Cancel > Absentee > bomb/paranoid > Mirror > Block/Jail > Redirect > Disguise > Seer > Recruit > Kill > Heal > Gifter/Addict > Ability thief > Track > Hobo​

And as weird as it sounds, I am now going to start really raising an eyebrow at people who keep pushing me as wolfy. You and cray are making me think twice about you with this.
Don't do that. The people most are reading heavy village are literally rezz'd, or seers, or shorty who has blarghldjkshdjs'd enough on thread that if she's a wolf I'm willing to lose to her. You've not done anything that makes you immediately village and to start throwing sus just because we're not immediately bowing to your wishes is rather ridiculous.
 
Block is usually ahead of kill in order of operations... WZ did mix things up to my confusion in the noob game, but I'd personally be kind of annoyed as a blocker if my block didn't do **** to kills, lol. It's not unheard of but not normal.

This was the OoO from the noob game, and afterwards we discussed that the block -> redirect was swapped from normal:
Cancel > Absentee > bomb/paranoid > Mirror > Block/Jail > Redirect > Disguise > Seer > Recruit > Kill > Heal > Gifter/Addict > Ability thief > Track > Hobo​


Don't do that. The people most are reading heavy village are literally rezz'd, or seers, or shorty who has blarghldjkshdjs'd enough on thread that if she's a wolf I'm willing to lose to her. You've not done anything that makes you immediately village and to start throwing sus just because we're not immediately bowing to your wishes is rather ridiculous.
How do you think wolves are caught though? And you really think I’d call out a fellow wolf day 1? You find me a game I’ve done that without trying to protect a more important wolf and I’ll concede.
 
How do you think wolves are caught though? And you really think I’d call out a fellow wolf day 1? You find me a game I’ve done that without trying to protect a more important wolf and I’ll concede.
I absolutely am not willing to trawl through old games to say that it's ridiculous you think we NEED to be village reading you or we're sketchy. That's absurd.
 
Hmm, and why do you even have all those letters for shorty being read as village?
I feel that the extent of reads and pure data dumping shorty has done on thread is difficult for a wolf to commit to and different enough from the wolf play I saw in the noob game that I'm comfortable reading her village.
 
I feel that the extent of reads and pure data dumping shorty has done on thread is difficult for a wolf to commit to and different enough from the wolf play I saw in the noob game that I'm comfortable reading her village.
Meanwhile you always hold your cards close to your chest. Which is fine, you're a great villager AND wolf for it. But to then basically shame people for daring to find you sketchy is ridiculous.
 
I feel that the extent of reads and pure data dumping shorty has done on thread is difficult for a wolf to commit to and different enough from the wolf play I saw in the noob game that I'm comfortable reading her village.
Wolf play from a noob game is inherently going to have changed though.
 
Meanwhile you always hold your cards close to your chest. Which is fine, you're a great villager AND wolf for it. But to then basically shame people for daring to find you sketchy is ridiculous.
Only when it should be to my mind. I have a right to get angry when I feel like I’m giving plenty of reasons to village read me. I’m done though. I’m just going to keep up my work otherwise. I imagine if alley is a wolf, maybe then having at least semi fingered two will get y’all off my back
 
Wolf play from a noob game is inherently going to have changed though.
It's less than a half dozen games ago and the last one I paid attention to. You know I usually operate from pretty heavy meta-analysis. I am somewhat struggling not knowing players here, lol, but doing what I can.

And at baseline, a difference between me and most players is that if someone is putting enough effort in, I'm willing to be wrong and suffer the consequences. If shorty is a wolf, cool. She's doing great. I'll lose to her and admit she did a fabulous job of convincing me otherwise at that point. But I don't think she is. *shrug*
 
It's less than a half dozen games ago and the last one I paid attention to. You know I usually operate from pretty heavy meta-analysis. I am somewhat struggling not knowing players here, lol, but doing what I can.

And at baseline, a difference between me and most players is that if someone is putting enough effort in, I'm willing to be wrong and suffer the consequences. If shorty is a wolf, cool. She's doing great. I'll lose to her and admit she did a fabulous job of convincing me otherwise at that point. But I don't think she is. *shrug*
Did you think once z was getting called out and upped his content he was village read for you?
 
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