Addressing PE

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msnbc2020 said:
I do not understand the pathway options. If the PE exam is really gone it is good news.
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I suspect it'll be something where our own schools evaluate us. According to someone high up in SGA and very involved with all this stuff at my school, one of the options being discussed is to basically use the pre-OSCE most schools make us take before letting us take the PE function as the PE.
 
zNoodlez said:
My gut tells me they will reinstate PE for c/o 2023 and 2024.
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The NBOME will do whatever the NBME does, because the NBOME is nothing but a mediocre copycat organization that writes mediocre copycat exams. It will pretend like its executives are feverishly deliberating about the future of the “osteopathic profession,” and it will drag its feet and send out passive-aggressive emails—but when all is said and done, it will follow the NBME wherever it goes.

If the NBOME were to ever actually deviate from the path that is kindly paved for it by the NBME, it would subject itself to extra scrutiny. When you make poorly written medical board exams with questions about Chapman’s points and the rhythmic motion of cranial bones, you don’t want extra scrutiny.
 
fldoctorgirl said:
I suspect it'll be something where our own schools evaluate us. According to someone high up in SGA and very involved with all this stuff at my school, one of the options being discussed is to basically use the pre-OSCE most schools make us take before letting us take the PE function as the PE.
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I agree with this
 
penpineappleapplepen said:
I am happy for the fourth year students, but what the heck does it mean that the test is postponed indefinitely.

Just cancel the exam permanently. if the NBOME really wants money and ensure public safety, then just make a 200$, two-week long certifying course for fourth years to take two weeks prior to graduation at their respective school or just cancel it permantely (this would be much better choice)
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Yeah, but what happens when someone fails an “evaluation course” 2 weeks before graduation? They would already be matched... no do overs that close to graduation... this implies basically you get one shot or your career is ruined lol. It would have to be so easy to pass that it would be pointless in the first place. I don’t see how this would work
 
hawthorn9797 said:
Yeah, but what happens when someone fails an “evaluation course” 2 weeks before graduation? They would already be matched... no do overs that close to graduation... this implies basically you get one shot or your career is ruined lol. It would have to be so easy to pass that it would be pointless in the first place. I don’t see how this would work
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Failed? Get 2 day practice with your SPs and redo for an institutional Pass. Lol, the school wants to pass you by that point.
 
CocoMelon0531 said:
Failed? Get 2 day practice with your SPs and redo for an institutional Pass. Lol, the school wants to pass you by that point.
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Ideally yes, but idk I feel like people would inevitably get shafted by such a high stakes evaluation so close to graduation. And then residencies would have a nightmare to deal with. Some schools seem to create problems for their students intentionally lol
 
hawthorn9797 said:
Yeah, but what happens when someone fails an “evaluation course” 2 weeks before graduation? They would already be matched... no do overs that close to graduation... this implies basically you get one shot or your career is ruined lol. It would have to be so easy to pass that it would be pointless in the first place. I don’t see how this would work
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I was saying the course should be more focused on teaching, training, and practicing advanced clinical and communications skills on SPs than assessing (i know this course would be another check in the box, but it will make the NBOME happy). It is kind of like a little elective rotation. or have us go out and interact with horses supposedly this improves communication skills and my school did this (i do not know this is effective, just presenting options)

I know everyone would be checked out by then, but if the NBOME really really needs something, then I think the course would be a viable option. This way the NBOME seems likes doing something and preventing them from reinstating the useless ComlexPE.
 
penpineappleapplepen said:
I was saying the course should be more focused on teaching, training, and practicing advanced clinical and communications skills on SPs than assessing (i know this course would be another check in the box, but it will make the NBOME happy). It is kind of like a little elective rotation. or have us go out and interact with horses supposedly this improves communication skills and my school did this (i do not know this is effective, just presenting options)

I know everyone would be checked out by then, but if the NBOME really really needs something, then I think the course would be a viable option. This way the NBOME seems likes doing something and preventing them from reinstating the useless ComlexPE.
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I agree, This would be a good and rational option. Clearly they are incapable of making such decisions though 😂
 
I am glad to say I was wrong. I really thought the NBOME would hold on to this test and you'd have to pry it from their cold dead fingers. In the end, they did the same thing they always do, which is copy the NBME. Them stubbornly holding onto it for so long definitely tarnished their public image though. As someone else noted above me, hopefully this is a step in the right direction for them being absorbed by the NBME and having unified licensing exams.

I would assume that if the schools now administer some sort of alternative, the pass rate should shoot up to >97%. Our schools, after all, should be on our side and failures/remediations would harm their match rate.
 
fldoctorgirl said:
I suspect it'll be something where our own schools evaluate us. According to someone high up in SGA and very involved with all this stuff at my school, one of the options being discussed is to basically use the pre-OSCE most schools make us take before letting us take the PE function as the PE.
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So... basically all of the current class of 2021 and 2022 would basically be auto-passed?
 
MakeLifeHappen13 said:
As someone else noted above me, hopefully this is a step in the right direction for them being absorbed by the NBME and having unified licensing exams.
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I'd love to see all the DO schools move away from COMLEX and require only USMLE. But a couple of things need to happen first. 1) They need to stop spending so much time on OPP....the time used on OPP could be used instead to give students a dedicated period to study for Step 1. 2) COMs need to stop teaching to COMLEX and start teaching to USMLE. Most COMs don't require their students to take Step 1 because they know their students perform (generally speaking) more poorly on USMLE than allopathic students.
Until the OPP lectures and labs stop, curriculum is USMLE-driven, and a dedicated study time for Step 1 is given, osteopathic students will continue to perform more poorly on Step 1 than their allopathic counterparts.
 
Oligodinero said:
I'd love to see all the DO schools move away from COMLEX and require only USMLE. But a couple of things need to happen first. 1) They need to stop spending so much time on OPP....the time used on OPP could be used instead to give students a dedicated period to study for Step 1. 2) COMs need to stop teaching to COMLEX and start teaching to USMLE. Most COMs don't require their students to take Step 1 because they know their students perform (generally speaking) more poorly on USMLE than allopathic students.
Until the OPP lectures and labs stop, curriculum is USMLE-driven, and a dedicated study time for Step 1 is given, osteopathic students will continue to perform more poorly on Step 1 than their allopathic counterparts.
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Once Gimpel's generation of leadership dies off and ours takes control we can begin to move towards positive changes like this. Move towards LCME standards for schools and curriculums, perhaps close the bad new schools, throw out the blatantly false parts of OMM like cranial, etc. None of these osteopathic professional orgs or their COMLEX exams will be around in 30-40 years.
 
Jackaleauxpe said:
Once Gimpel's generation of leadership dies off and ours takes control we can begin to move towards positive changes like this. Move towards LCME standards for schools and curriculums, perhaps close the bad new schools, throw out the blatantly false parts of OMM like cranial, etc. None of these osteopathic professional orgs or their COMLEX exams will be around in 30-40 years.
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I hope that’s true. There are younger physicians on this forum posting about how using armies of midlevels to make cash is admirable and to be emulated. So I don’t hold out a ton of hope that our generation won’t be as money hungry and selfish.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I hope that’s true. There are younger physicians on this forum posting about how using armies of midlevels to make cash is admirable and to be emulated. So I don’t hold out a ton of hope that our generation won’t be as money hungry and selfish.
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I'd say that's mainly from surgery millennials though, except too many millennial and Z MS1s-MS4s are worshipping midlevels and condemning PPP 🙁
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I hope that’s true. There are younger physicians on this forum posting about how using armies of midlevels to make cash is admirable and to be emulated. So I don’t hold out a ton of hope that our generation won’t be as money hungry and selfish.
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The thread he's referring to: The future?

Truly disturbing and I agree that the future is bleak. I once thought our generation would end the madness, but clearly I was mistaken.
 
fldoctorgirl said:
Hot off the press from our weekly dean's report: "The COMLEX Level 2 PE has been indefinitely suspended, however we are being asked to evaluate competency prior to graduation."
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Good. That’s how it should be.
 
fldoctorgirl said:
Hot off the press from our weekly dean's report: "The COMLEX Level 2 PE has been indefinitely suspended, however we are being asked to evaluate competency prior to graduation."
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We have to do 2 clinical practice exams that functioned as Mock PEs. We were told today these would be what counted as our PE requirement for graduation.

I suspect every school will do something similar.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
We have to do 2 clinical practice exams that functioned as Mock PEs. We were told today these would be what counted as our PE requirement for graduation.

I suspect every school will do something similar.
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I imagine so. My school makes you pass a smaller version of the PE before you're released to sign up for the real deal. I would hope that would be able to be used...
 
fldoctorgirl said:
Hot off the press from our weekly dean's report: "The COMLEX Level 2 PE has been indefinitely suspended, however we are being asked to evaluate competency prior to graduation."
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This is actually very bad in my opinion. What if we fail this right before graduation Lol?
 
hawthorn9797 said:
This is actually very bad in my opinion. What if we fail this right before graduation Lol?
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I think it's in everyone's best interest to allow already-matched 4th-year medical students to graduate and take Level 3. I have a feeling whatever "pathway" the NBOME chooses to move forward, it won't be a roadblock for anyone in the Class of 2021. Hope I'm not wrong.
 
CanISleepYet? said:
I think it's in everyone's best interest to allow already-matched 4th-year medical students to graduate and take Level 3. I have a feeling whatever "pathway" the NBOME chooses to move forward, it won't be a roadblock for anyone in the Class of 2021. Hope I'm not wrong.
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Hopefully. It'd be a shame if we made them look like idiots for a 2nd time. 2021 is a force to reckon with. I hope 2022 and beyond finish them off.
 
hawthorn9797 said:
This is actually very bad in my opinion. What if we fail this right before graduation Lol?
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I honestly doubt schools are going to fail anyone unless you really mess up. We all already do this in order to be allowed to take the PE, nothing is changing. I'm already scheduled to do mine through school before this whole mess started.
 
getfat said:
Like many of my classmatesI haven't lived near my school for almost 1.5 years now.

Really hoping they don't make us fly back for a day to just take an OSCE.
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Yes. I’m hoping they can just use the OSCE on file that we take during the first semester of M3 pass/fail before we are allowed to take the PE starting 2nd semester of M3.
 
For c/o 2021 people looking to match/practice in PA- do you think being certified by the alternative pathway will count as the practical OMT exam required for DO licensure? Hopefully we won't need to worry about having to take the PA OMT test? As it stands, PA requires either PE or the OMT test to fulfill this requirement..
 
nittanylion said:
For c/o 2021 people looking to match/practice in PA- do you think being certified by the alternative pathway will count as the practical OMT exam required for DO licensure? Hopefully we won't need to worry about having to take the PA OMT test? As it stands, PA requires either PE or the OMT test to fulfill this requirement..
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It should be.. I mean you cant even take the PE so the alternative pathway has to fulfill those requirements...
 
getfat said:
Like many of my classmatesI haven't lived near my school for almost 1.5 years now.

Really hoping they don't make us fly back for a day to just take an OSCE.
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Yeah. I feel like the logistical nightmare of getting all the students placed at far off core rotation sites back to campus for a one day exam would be enough of a headache to prevent this from happening.... also it would disrupt rotations. This is my greatest fear however 😂
 
hawthorn9797 said:
Yeah. I feel like the logistical nightmare of getting all the students placed at far off core rotation sites back to campus for a one day exam would be enough of a headache to prevent this from happening.... also it would disrupt rotations. This is my greatest fear however 😂
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My school usually brings all its students back from everywhere in the country, including Hawaii for the shelf exam. Obviously not doing this during covid, but that’s normally how it’s done. So it’s definitely possible, but I would think schools would want to avoid that in a pandemic.
 
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