Albert Einstein vs. Jefferson

[maybedeadcat]

I am so lucky to be in the position to choose between schools!! I also have an acceptance to my state school, but I feel like that's comparing apples to oranges so I want to focus on these two.

Both of these schools are so awesome, and I could definitely be happy at either. Here are my pros and cons for each.

Einstein:
+New York!! I've always wanted to live in NYC (I'm from the south and have been wanting to gtfo for a long time)
+ great reputation, especially in research
+ student housing is super cheap
+ amazing global health opportunities
+ seemed to have a really tight-knit class which I love
+true P/F
+ huge clinical network

- The Bronx is not Manhattan. I mean, it's easily accessible, and I'll be busy studying most of the time anyways I guess?
- Might be more difficult to live with my long term SO because of student housing
- SO is having a difficult time finding jobs in New York/worried about the high cost of living

Jefferson
+ in an incredible location of Philly
+ H/P/F is still nice enough
+ students seemed so happy
+ very welcoming faculty and staff
+ opportunities for refugee volunteering! I have done a lot of work with refugees in the past and this is so cool to me.

-more expensive than Einstein
-expensive housing
-I've heard good things about Philly, but I'm not that familiar with the city
-H/P/F is not as great as true P/F

That's all I can think of at the moment. What do you all think?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[rednote]

Einstein hands down.. You gonna thank yourself for the P/F and lower COA.

 

[maybedeadcat]

Einstein hands down.. You gonna thank yourself for the P/F and lower COA.

Is it true that P/F is really that much of a game changer? I feel like it's really inportant, but it also doesn't seem like a great reason to choose a school.

 

[rednote]

Almost every medical students I've talked to that both had P/F or did not advised to go to a P/F school. It's just makes your first two years much more relaxed and cooperative learning environment as opposed to stress and competition.

 

[bearintraining]

Einstein. Great institute, Montefiore is an amazing hospital also.

 

[maybedeadcat]

Einstein. Great institute, Montefiore is an amazing hospital also.

Unfortunately I didn't get to visit Montefiore on my interview day. What makes it so amazing?

 

[JMMTB]

I agree with everyone. Although Jefferson did a lot as a founding father, Einstein's theory of relativity is far more important.

 

[Slack3r]

Is it true that P/F is really that much of a game changer? I feel like it's really inportant, but it also doesn't seem like a great reason to choose a school.

It is not. You're still ranked, even at P/F schools, so it really doesn't change anything. People who will do well will be at the top regardless of A/B/C grading or P/F or H/P/F, etc. I suppose if you're mediocre it's better for your ego to see a P instead of a C, but you'll still be ranked near the bottom either way.

 

[maybedeadcat]

It is not. You're still ranked, even at P/F schools, so it really doesn't change anything. People who will do well will be at the top regardless of A/B/C grading or P/F or H/P/F, etc. I suppose if you're mediocre it's better for your ego to see a P instead of a C, but you'll still be ranked near the bottom either way.

Einstein is actually one of those schools with totally unranked classes. Kind of a double edged sword with residency applications I guess.

 

[Slack3r]

Einstein is actually one of those schools with totally unranked classes. Kind of a double edged sword with residency applications I guess.

Is there no AOA?

 

[maybedeadcat]

Is there no AOA?

I've heard that only years 3 and 4 (which are graded) are factored into AOA. Not entirely sure on that though.

 

[piii]

Is there no AOA?

AOA only includes clinical grades and step scores at true PF schools. Preclinical is completely unranked.

 

[Slack3r]

AOA only includes clinical grades and step scores at true PF schools. Preclinical is completely unranked.

So in an effort to decrease competition, they make the highest academic honor you can receive in medical school contingent entirely on subjective clinical grades than can be influenced by your gunner classmates? Seems reasonable.

 

[piii]

So in an effort to decrease competition, they make the highest academic honor you can receive in medical school contingent entirely on subjective clinical grades than can be influenced by your gunner classmates? Seems reasonable.

Not unreasonable at all...

The Residency Director survey for selecting applicants lists step 1 the highest at 1st and clerkship grades as 4th most important under LORs and personal statement. Where is AOA? 25th... Where is preclinical grades? 29th...

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

But yeah, lets add the most unimportant preclinical grades into your AOA score, "sounds reasonable...."

I'd take my True P/F any day.

 

[maybedeadcat]

I think it's more of a "correlation, not causation" scenario with prestigious residency matches and AOA. Seems like the type of students to make AOA would match into great residencies whether or not they have that particular honor on their resume, but what do I know.

Anyways, a true P/F system is more important to me than having preclinical grades count towards AOA.

 

[Slack3r]

Not unreasonable at all...

The Residency Director survey for selecting applicants lists step 1 the highest at 1st and clerkship grades as 4th most important under LORs and personal statement. Where is AOA? 25th... Where is preclinical grades? 29th...

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

But yeah, lets add the most unimportant preclinical grades into your AOA score, "sounds reasonable...."

I'd take my True P/F any day.

Ah yes, the 5 point likert scale! The difference between USMLE score and AOA is 0.7. AOA IS important, especially for highly competitive specialties. But yes, premeds, please explain what goes into residency selection.

 

[maybedeadcat]

Ah yes, the 5 point likert scale! The difference between USMLE score and AOA is 0.7. AOA IS important, especially for highly competitive specialties. But yes, premeds, please explain what goes into residency selection.

Ok well the fact is, Einstein still gives out AOA, so this really isn't a big factor for my decision here. I appreciate the lively debate on the matter but I'd really rather keep this thread on the topic of these two schools specifically.

 

[piii]

Ah yes, the 5 point likert scale! The difference between USMLE score and AOA is 0.7. AOA IS important, especially for highly competitive specialties. But yes, premeds, please explain what goes into residency selection.

lol you're so salty

 

[Cookiess]

My vote goes towards Einstein. True P/F pre-clinical curriculum, awesome/cheap student housing, and you seem to favor the close-knit student community at Einstein. Manhattan is accessible enough. The Bronx is only a 40 minute subway ride into downtown Manhattan and there's an express bus you can take into Manhattan right by where the student apartment buildings are. I also liked the student rec center/gym at Einstein. It's not a huge facility but it's super convenient.

 

[AngelintheOutfield]

Hope you all don't mind if I bump / high-jack this thread. I'm very thrilled to have gotten an offer to Einstein today after getting my first acceptance last week. I'm so thankful I do not have to reapply because I do not have the money nor the desire to retake the MCAT. However, I am still on the HPWL at Jefferson, and I am still very interested in attending. In case I do get off of the HPWL, I want to have my mind made up beforehand because I know I won't be given much time to decide.

Here's my dilemma. I loved center city philly! Coming from a smaller town in CA I honestly have never been much of a big city guy. I love the outdoors, open space, exploring, fishing, camping, etc. Yet when I came to philly for my interview, I was amazed to see how many young people lived there, how many opportunities for entertainment there are, having 4 professional sports teams just down the street, and all of the historical landmarks which I find fascinating. I honestly feel like I could see myself thriving in a place like that. On top of this, I feel like i meshed really well with all of the Jefferson students that I met. They are such a fun and compassionate group that I got along well with and shared many interests with.

Although some parts of the Bronx are a bit shady, Einstein's campus was amazing! Montefiore would be awesome for clerkships, and the research opportunities at the school are second to none! On top of this, their match list is extremely impressive. I may want to return to CA for my residency, so I really hope I can go somewhere that makes me a competitive applicant. On the flip side, I didn't get the impression that the students there were not as excited about Einstein. They were very nice and knowledgeable about the school, but I got the impression that students found it a little more difficult to enjoy their free time, which is important to me. Granted, I do acknowledge that I was only able to interact with 7-8 students on my interview day, so this impression could be misconceived.

Academically, honors pass fail and true pass fail both seem like pretty sweet systems, and it's hard for me to determine which I prefer. The housing situations are both very convenient, with Einstein's obviously being cheaper. COA is pretty similar. Both are affiliated with terrific hospitals with a diverse patient population and great reputations. Although it's early, I have some experience in emergency medicine, and I think that will be the path I ultimately choose. Not sure which school is better for EM?

I think this decision is so difficult for me because I have lived in CA my whole life and I am really not familiar with Philadelphia or NYC. It's really unfortunate that I didn't have more time to explore NYC because it's entirely possible I would have the same feeling I did in Manhattan as I did in Philly. In addition to this, public transportation is a foreign concept to me haha. So I guess I'm asking for more insight into living in Philadelphia vs. living in the Bronx. Is it overwhelming living in the middle of a center city if that's not an environment I'm used to? How hard is it to escape and explore outside of the city? And for Einstein, is the public transportation throughout NYC safe and convenient? Is it nice to be a little removed from the bustling city, or is it too time consuming to go out and explore other parts of NYC.

And yes, I did ask these questions to students when I interviewed, but naturally I got very biased answers. Thank you so much for your help!

 

[Mansamusa]

Hope you all don't mind if I bump / high-jack this thread. I'm very thrilled to have gotten an offer to Einstein today after getting my first acceptance last week. I'm so thankful I do not have to reapply because I do not have the money nor the desire to retake the MCAT. However, I am still on the HPWL at Jefferson, and I am still very interested in attending. In case I do get off of the HPWL, I want to have my mind made up beforehand because I know I won't be given much time to decide.

Here's my dilemma. I loved center city philly! Coming from a smaller town in CA I honestly have never been much of a big city guy. I love the outdoors, open space, exploring, fishing, camping, etc. Yet when I came to philly for my interview, I was amazed to see how many young people lived there, how many opportunities for entertainment there are, having 4 professional sports teams just down the street, and all of the historical landmarks which I find fascinating. I honestly feel like I could see myself thriving in a place like that. On top of this, I feel like i meshed really well with all of the Jefferson students that I met. They are such a fun and compassionate group that I got along well with and shared many interests with.

Although some parts of the Bronx are a bit shady, Einstein's campus was amazing! Montefiore would be awesome for clerkships, and the research opportunities at the school are second to none! On top of this, their match list is extremely impressive. I may want to return to CA for my residency, so I really hope I can go somewhere that makes me a competitive applicant. On the flip side, I didn't get the impression that the students there were not as excited about Einstein. They were very nice and knowledgeable about the school, but I got the impression that students found it a little more difficult to enjoy their free time, which is important to me. Granted, I do acknowledge that I was only able to interact with 7-8 students on my interview day, so this impression could be misconceived.

Academically, honors pass fail and true pass fail both seem like pretty sweet systems, and it's hard for me to determine which I prefer. The housing situations are both very convenient, with Einstein's obviously being cheaper. COA is pretty similar. Both are affiliated with terrific hospitals with a diverse patient population and great reputations. Although it's early, I have some experience in emergency medicine, and I think that will be the path I ultimately choose. Not sure which school is better for EM?

I think this decision is so difficult for me because I have lived in CA my whole life and I am really not familiar with Philadelphia or NYC. It's really unfortunate that I didn't have more time to explore NYC because it's entirely possible I would have the same feeling I did in Manhattan as I did in Philly. In addition to this, public transportation is a foreign concept to me haha. So I guess I'm asking for more insight into living in Philadelphia vs. living in the Bronx. Is it overwhelming living in the middle of a center city if that's not an environment I'm used to? How hard is it to escape and explore outside of the city? And for Einstein, is the public transportation throughout NYC safe and convenient? Is it nice to be a little removed from the bustling city, or is it too time consuming to go out and explore other parts of NYC.

And yes, I did ask these questions to students when I interviewed, but naturally I got very biased answers. Thank you so much for your help!

Safe? Yeah. Will you run into someone jerking off on the subway or in a crazed state saying that you need Jesus 'cause they be demons in you at least once in your time there? Probably.
(You'll see lots of weird things on the subway, but you will be safe)

It'll take an hour to get down to the parts of Manhattan people normally go to have fun and then you can get to Queens. It's not difficult, but it's not as fast as Philly travel because Philly is such a small city. I, personally, would much rather live in the Bronx than Manhattan anyways and then you have Westchester, Yonkers, and Long Island (dont go to Long Island, haha) nearby where you can do outdoor stuff. And there are beaches near NYC, not Philly

I'm not too sure if Philly has public transport (besides Amtrak, which is $$) to go explore outside of the city. You may need a car for that.

It's also a 2 hr megabus to Philly, so you take a weekend out there when you have a weekend off at Einstein if you want.

I actually like Philly a lot and would rather end up there on a permanent basis than NYC, but I think Einstein offers more as a school and the Bronx is still cool so I would go there

Oh yeah! Jewish holidays. Growing up in NYS is great because we get a ton of days off for Jewish holidays- Einstein gives those days off as well.

 

[Superstah_11]

Hope you all don't mind if I bump / high-jack this thread. I'm very thrilled to have gotten an offer to Einstein today after getting my first acceptance last week. I'm so thankful I do not have to reapply because I do not have the money nor the desire to retake the MCAT. However, I am still on the HPWL at Jefferson, and I am still very interested in attending. In case I do get off of the HPWL, I want to have my mind made up beforehand because I know I won't be given much time to decide.

Here's my dilemma. I loved center city philly! Coming from a smaller town in CA I honestly have never been much of a big city guy. I love the outdoors, open space, exploring, fishing, camping, etc. Yet when I came to philly for my interview, I was amazed to see how many young people lived there, how many opportunities for entertainment there are, having 4 professional sports teams just down the street, and all of the historical landmarks which I find fascinating. I honestly feel like I could see myself thriving in a place like that. On top of this, I feel like i meshed really well with all of the Jefferson students that I met. They are such a fun and compassionate group that I got along well with and shared many interests with.

Although some parts of the Bronx are a bit shady, Einstein's campus was amazing! Montefiore would be awesome for clerkships, and the research opportunities at the school are second to none! On top of this, their match list is extremely impressive. I may want to return to CA for my residency, so I really hope I can go somewhere that makes me a competitive applicant. On the flip side, I didn't get the impression that the students there were not as excited about Einstein. They were very nice and knowledgeable about the school, but I got the impression that students found it a little more difficult to enjoy their free time, which is important to me. Granted, I do acknowledge that I was only able to interact with 7-8 students on my interview day, so this impression could be misconceived.

Academically, honors pass fail and true pass fail both seem like pretty sweet systems, and it's hard for me to determine which I prefer. The housing situations are both very convenient, with Einstein's obviously being cheaper. COA is pretty similar. Both are affiliated with terrific hospitals with a diverse patient population and great reputations. Although it's early, I have some experience in emergency medicine, and I think that will be the path I ultimately choose. Not sure which school is better for EM?

I think this decision is so difficult for me because I have lived in CA my whole life and I am really not familiar with Philadelphia or NYC. It's really unfortunate that I didn't have more time to explore NYC because it's entirely possible I would have the same feeling I did in Manhattan as I did in Philly. In addition to this, public transportation is a foreign concept to me haha. So I guess I'm asking for more insight into living in Philadelphia vs. living in the Bronx. Is it overwhelming living in the middle of a center city if that's not an environment I'm used to? How hard is it to escape and explore outside of the city? And for Einstein, is the public transportation throughout NYC safe and convenient? Is it nice to be a little removed from the bustling city, or is it too time consuming to go out and explore other parts of NYC.

And yes, I did ask these questions to students when I interviewed, but naturally I got very biased answers. Thank you so much for your help!

I am attending Jeff in the fall and was HPWL at Einstein but decided to withdraw for a couple reasons. Students at Jeff seemed happier. Ortho at Jeff is top-notch, and that's what I'm interested in. I'm an NJ/NYC guy, and was not impressed by the Bronx area and where most students live at Einstein. Philly is a beautiful city, and smaller, which I personally view as a positive. I get to live in or around center city and have amazing food/entertainment/running trails at my finger tips - these are all important things to me. This decision, in my opinion, should be very personal. Any "prestige" factor is negligible between these two schools, IMO. If we're talking about Harvard, that's a different story. P/F and grading doesn't really concern me - I think I'll make my own bed wherever I am. Just my two cents here! Congrats to those who are matriculating in the fall! A long journey, but well worth it!

 

[maybedeadcat]

Hope you all don't mind if I bump / high-jack this thread. I'm very thrilled to have gotten an offer to Einstein today after getting my first acceptance last week. I'm so thankful I do not have to reapply because I do not have the money nor the desire to retake the MCAT. However, I am still on the HPWL at Jefferson, and I am still very interested in attending. In case I do get off of the HPWL, I want to have my mind made up beforehand because I know I won't be given much time to decide.

Here's my dilemma. I loved center city philly! Coming from a smaller town in CA I honestly have never been much of a big city guy. I love the outdoors, open space, exploring, fishing, camping, etc. Yet when I came to philly for my interview, I was amazed to see how many young people lived there, how many opportunities for entertainment there are, having 4 professional sports teams just down the street, and all of the historical landmarks which I find fascinating. I honestly feel like I could see myself thriving in a place like that. On top of this, I feel like i meshed really well with all of the Jefferson students that I met. They are such a fun and compassionate group that I got along well with and shared many interests with.

Although some parts of the Bronx are a bit shady, Einstein's campus was amazing! Montefiore would be awesome for clerkships, and the research opportunities at the school are second to none! On top of this, their match list is extremely impressive. I may want to return to CA for my residency, so I really hope I can go somewhere that makes me a competitive applicant. On the flip side, I didn't get the impression that the students there were not as excited about Einstein. They were very nice and knowledgeable about the school, but I got the impression that students found it a little more difficult to enjoy their free time, which is important to me. Granted, I do acknowledge that I was only able to interact with 7-8 students on my interview day, so this impression could be misconceived.

Academically, honors pass fail and true pass fail both seem like pretty sweet systems, and it's hard for me to determine which I prefer. The housing situations are both very convenient, with Einstein's obviously being cheaper. COA is pretty similar. Both are affiliated with terrific hospitals with a diverse patient population and great reputations. Although it's early, I have some experience in emergency medicine, and I think that will be the path I ultimately choose. Not sure which school is better for EM?

I think this decision is so difficult for me because I have lived in CA my whole life and I am really not familiar with Philadelphia or NYC. It's really unfortunate that I didn't have more time to explore NYC because it's entirely possible I would have the same feeling I did in Manhattan as I did in Philly. In addition to this, public transportation is a foreign concept to me haha. So I guess I'm asking for more insight into living in Philadelphia vs. living in the Bronx. Is it overwhelming living in the middle of a center city if that's not an environment I'm used to? How hard is it to escape and explore outside of the city? And for Einstein, is the public transportation throughout NYC safe and convenient? Is it nice to be a little removed from the bustling city, or is it too time consuming to go out and explore other parts of NYC.

And yes, I did ask these questions to students when I interviewed, but naturally I got very biased answers. Thank you so much for your help!

As the owner of this thread I feel like I should comment! I can tell you why I chose Einstein over Jeff.

I'm not sure why you got that impression from the students, because I got the exact opposite! The Einstein students to me seemed the happiest out of all the places I interviewed. I think having a true unranked P/F system versus a ranked H/P/F really does a lot to help everyone collaborate and have a life outside of med school. Students all live together, and I really got a sense of closeness among the student body. At Jefferson, it seemed like a lot of people lived off-campus with their families or with other non students. I want to be closer to my class than that.

In addition, Einstein is a research powerhouse. I don't know if you're interested in going into a highly competitive specialty, but if you are, having some research on your CV is going to be really important. I got the feeling at Jeff that finding research would be a lot more difficult.

I know the difference isn't huge, but Einstein is more highly ranked than Jeff. If you are in love with Jefferson, this shouldn't matter, but since I already sort of liked Einstein better, this is just icing on the cake.

Yeah, the Bronx is not my ideal NYC location. But in a way, it's sort of nice. You can go to the city on weekends (and I plan on it!) but it's not a constant distraction. I love that it's affordable to have a car- you can get out of the city whenever! And damn, that housing is cheap.

One last thing: it seems like Einstein had more students from all around the country, whereas Jefferson had >50% local students. There are a ton of Californians at Einstein for some reason.

All that being said, it sort of sounds like you're leaning towards Jefferson. If that's where you see yourself, GO FOR IT! Center City is incredible and I have no doubt you would get a top notch education there.