ATSU/SOMA (Arizona) Discussion Thread 2009-2010

[pinklvr1014]

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Hello! My laptop just broke down so I need to buy a new one anyway, and since I'm prob goin to ATSU, I was wondering if any of you have some more details regarding the laptop that satisfies the school requirement? Does it have to be a specific laptop? Or can it be a laptop in general that satisfies certail requirements (like having a certain program on it) I sent an e-mail to ATSU but they haven't replied, and I can't stay laptop-less for long! I know you mentioned Lenovo thinkpad and Macbook satisfy the requirements, does anyone know the details on which specific computers satisfy the requirements, and where I can find them? Thanks so much!

The school should have emailed you with the computer specs. You can order them online through their program and they will come pre-hooked up for all of the software we will need or you can follow the guidelines and get your own, and have it set up when you get to campus.

You should have gotten an email about this from Joyce Haynie..so I would email her asking her for a copy. She sent it out a few weeks ago, however, so if you were just recently admitted it might have gone out before that.

(If she doesn't respond PM me and I will find the email to forward to you)

Personally, I have no idea which computer to buy..i change my mind everytime I think about it. Haha!

 

[Desidoc2010]

For those of you who got into ATSU...
after you got your packet and sent out $2000, did you recieve addditional emails regarding the laptop info, matriculation date, list of books etc.

I am trying to find out these info but having hard time. Either it's not updated or simply not there...

little help here....


ATSU-SOMA Class of 2014 😍

 

[rosewater80]

I came back from my interview just recently. I wanted to share my conversation with a first year and have other students give their opinions of if this is true.

I won't mention his/her name, but the student told me:

1) during the second year the preceptors are only volunteering their time with you.

2) podcasts are recordings of the professor giving a lecture. They are meant to be used every year to the 2nd year class in their login accounts.

This student put me in touch with a friend of his who is in a CHC I wanted to go to. It turns out that this student wanted to transfer to AZCOM and spoke to an admissions counselor about why they want to transfer and when to get the right paper work in, etc. Anyway, her name I can mention: Elizabeth (if you wanted to verify). She mentioned that many students wanted to transfer and that they have all failed to because amongst other osteopathic medical schools, SOMA is seen as a business model, not an educational model.

After knowing the first 2 points above this really made me freak out. Does anyone have any thoughts? I really hope this isn't true but it made the pieces of the puzzle come together.

 

[brucecanbeatyou]

I came back from my interview just recently. I wanted to share my conversation with a first year and have other students give their opinions of if this is true.

I won't mention his/her name, but the student told me:

1) during the second year the preceptors are only volunteering their time with you.

2) podcasts are recordings of the professor giving a lecture. They are meant to be used every year to the 2nd year class in their login accounts.

This student put me in touch with a friend of his who is in a CHC I wanted to go to. It turns out that this student wanted to transfer to AZCOM and spoke to an admissions counselor about why they want to transfer and when to get the right paper work in, etc. Anyway, her name I can mention: Elizabeth (if you wanted to verify). She mentioned that many students wanted to transfer and that they have all failed to because amongst other osteopathic medical schools, SOMA is seen as a business model, not an educational model.

After knowing the first 2 points above this really made me freak out. Does anyone have any thoughts? I really hope this isn't true but it made the pieces of the puzzle come together.

I talk to every upperclassman when I get the chance, and none have said that they want to transfer.

What do you mean be business model? If anything, the school seems to have been designed completely around the clincal presentation educational model.

Your entire post is somewhat cryptic - what puzzle pieces came together? What was the puzzle? Is this joes again?

 

[rosewater80]

I talk to every upperclassman when I get the chance, and none have said that they want to transfer.

What do you mean be business model? If anything, the school seems to have been designed completely around the clincal presentation educational model.

Your entire post is somewhat cryptic - what puzzle pieces came together? What was the puzzle? Is this joes again?

so then 2nd year student is lieing when he says that a lot of the top students in the 2nd and 3rd year class wanted to transfer?

the puzzle pieces that came together are that

1. it seems no money is really spent on 2nd years if everything was a recording of lectures from other years on a podcast.

Other schools pay a half dozen professors each year, year after year totalling to almost 500k/year in school expenses. I mean I couldn't care less about this specifically because I like the podcasts, especially if its a better way to learn.

2. But I was also told from AZCOM admissions on my interview there and other students at SOMA that the school doesn't pay a dime to the preceptors in the CHC's that are supposed to teach us.

So in essence, the first point I don't care about. If the school wants to save money, hell I don't blame them! But the 2nd point if true, would lend much credit to the school pretty much having 0 expenses for 2nd year students, trumping the school as an educational model and instead more of a business model

All I really want to know is if the school pays preceptors for our 2nd year clinical experiences. I'd like to know this before I put down a deposit. After reading "2nd year student"'s take, it made me wonder. If nobody can give me a straight answer, thats fine, its a difficult thing to know.

 

[thanecyan]

nt

 

[Verita]

Rosewater is bringing up a good point. I am a current 2nd year student and many of us have been wondering the same thing. There is a small amount of money that is given to the CHC and I believe that 2 of the preceptors that work most closely with us are entitled to a certain amount. However, I don't see what the majority of our tuition is spent on. Some of us have suggested that it goes to Kirksville to fund their new facilities.

 

[melissaliss]

Hello all. There are a lot of things about SOMA that I really really REALLY like but I feel confused by the posts I see on here. I feel fundamentally drawn to the philosophies of the school but I do have my concerns about the lack of board scores among other things. Part of me wants to ignore these nagging worries but I know I should at least try to explore a little more in-depth. I am wondering if current SOMA student would be willing to do this: Please state your year (MS1, MS2, MS3, or MS4), your CHC if you are willing to share, and what you feel are the pros and cons of the school. It is so hard to sort through some of the diatribes on this site, especially those laden with odd internet syntax errors and horrible grammar and spelling mistakes. So many students simply post a bunch of hearsay, which isn't the least bit helpful. Please just try to provide an organized view of your experience. I am especially interested in opinions from 3rd and 4th years if there are any who read this thread. I definitely agree that any medical education is only what you put into it but I would like to look at things more objectively. Thanks!

 

[rosewater80]

Rosewater is bringing up a good point. I am a current 2nd year student and many of us have been wondering the same thing. There is a small amount of money that is given to the CHC and I believe that 2 of the preceptors that work most closely with us are entitled to a certain amount. However, I don't see what the majority of our tuition is spent on. Some of us have suggested that it goes to Kirksville to fund their new facilities.

And you are not even the person who told me that! I heard the exact same thing from a number of others. More importantly, do you feel that the preceptors you are working with are devoted to your education and also, can you pm me the chc you go to?

 

[Arthroscope]

<-- is almost in tears laughing right now.

Notice how "Verita" and "Rosewater" have only 1-2 posts?

Listen, we all know your game, and we know who you are.

Give it a rest.

 

[Current2ndYear]

"so then 2nd year student is lieing when he says that a lot of the top students in the 2nd and 3rd year class wanted to transfer?"

A question like this truly makes me think this person is only trolling, especially with the horrendous spelling error.

Just to clarify - the phrase I used in both of my previous posts was "more than one of the top students in my class." I don't know any of the 3rd year students very well, and I have no idea who the top students in their class are.

To expand on this, since when did a random student have access to the 'top grades' in any class or school? It wasn't true for me in grade school, undergrad, or medical school.

As you know, SOMA releases statistics after every midterm, final, and overall course is complete. These statistics show the highest score achieved by any student, the number of students who passed and failed, etc. Early on last year, the group of people I sat with in class felt comfortable enough to share their scores after most exams and modules. Some even enjoyed logging into MLO to actually prove that they had scored the highest or second highest grade. By the end of Year 1, I had seen enough statistic reports to know that the scores of these individuals were consistently at the top of the class. Some of those students are still in my CHC so the comparing has continued throughout most of Year 2 as well.

And even if there were a handful of students who expressed a desire to transfer, you can examine any other medical school in the world, and you will find students who want to transfer, who want to drop out and become musicians, and those who simply want to kill themselves because of the difficulty. In other words, a handful of disgruntled students can be found anywhere, even at an Ivy League.

I realize now that my language wasn't clear enough in earlier posts. These are not disgruntled students merely whining and complaining. These are students (four that I know of for sure) who are finding time to fill out AACOMAS and AMCAS applications in addition to their 2nd year coursework, clinic time, and board prep. They are securing letters of recommendation from their Year 1 faculty in Mesa, and they are paying money to submit applications and secondaries. And, as I mentioned earlier, they are requesting a letter of good standing from the Dean himself. To me, this is very different than casually wishing one could transfer. This isn't behavior you'd expect from someone just having a tough week or month in medical school. These decisions come from serious and unexpected concerns discovered only after leaving Mesa. My original point is still the same - the fact that even one top student at SOMA chose to go through this transfer process should send a cautionary message. I'm not telling people to choose any other school over SOMA; selecting a med school will always be a personal, individual decision. I'm trying to help people avoid being absolutely disappointed and shocked when they arrive at their CHC. Do as brucecanbeatyou encouraged a while back and visit your CHC(s) of interest to get a better picture of life after Year 1. His simple suggestions is still the best advice I've seen on this entire thread to anyone considering SOMA.

As for second year, I personally find teaching doctors who volunteer more appealing than those who get paid (this is a CHC/PCP oriented institution...surprise!). I am excited because of the actual clinical exposure; how many schools do you know of that allows MS2s to deliver babies?

I'm not sure if all the 2nd year preceptors are volunteers. I believe this is the case, but not 100% sure. Again, my issue with this is how can the school ensure that quality clinical training is being carried out if they have minimal or no influence over these volunteer physicians?

Just think about the Med Skills course during Year 1. Each doctor hired to work with the students receives periodical training on how these Med Skills sessions are to be carried out. They are all given guidelines to work within (mostly, follow the Bates text). This standardizes the clinical training that students receive during Year 1. These physicians are free to share additional insights and tricks they've picked up through years of experience, but because they are employees of the school they are ultimately accountable to the course director, Dr. Bennett, for what they teach us. This ensures that they all stay pretty much on the same page and minimum standards are met.

When 2nd years are turned over to a varied assortment of volunteers scattered throughout the nation, how can the clinical training be standardized? Who are these physicians accountable to or overseen by? Some will provide incredible experiences for students and some will not. Some will teach correct clinical skills and some won't. Some will be happily waiting for you when you arrive for scheduled clinical hours, and some will be frequent no-shows. This invariably happens when you're working with volunteers rather than employees. For these reasons, I find paid adjunct faculty more appealing at this stage in my training. Difference of opinion, I suppose.

I sincerely hope you become one of SOMA's MS2s that delivers a baby. I searched out this old post by GreenShirt from 10-5-2008.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=525718&page=3

I still vividly remember reading that post 18 months ago. When I learned that s/he had already helped deliver a baby (only one month after starting Year 2), I was thrilled for the CHC experience that yet awaited me. On the spectrum of CHC experiences, this one definitely falls well toward the positive end. Unfortunately, there is another end of the spectrum. Here is one short line from an email I received on 12-2-2009 from a current SOMA student at a different CHC.

"Mid way through my third year I have only performed <10 pap smears and have never had a pregnant patient to follow."

I feel sick to my stomach every time I read that. I hope this is just a bizarre and unfortunate outlier. So many factors work together to determine what you'll experience during Years 2, 3, and 4 as a SOMA student. Some of these factors are within your control, but some are sadly not. The risk is undeniably there for anyone who selects this school, and I think it is a huge risk. My point of view is only one out of hundreds of current SOMA students, but I think it's an important one to include on this thread.

 

[melissaliss]

In response to my earlier request for pros/cons from current students, if you'd rather not post on the forum, I gladly accept PMs and will agree to not share names.

 

[rosewater80]

Just to clarify - the phrase I used in both of my previous posts was "more than one of the top students in my class." I don't know any of the 3rd year students very well, and I have no idea who the top students in their class are.



As you know, SOMA releases statistics after every midterm, final, and overall course is complete. These statistics show the highest score achieved by any student, the number of students who passed and failed, etc. Early on last year, the group of people I sat with in class felt comfortable enough to share their scores after most exams and modules. Some even enjoyed logging into MLO to actually prove that they had scored the highest or second highest grade. By the end of Year 1, I had seen enough statistic reports to know that the scores of these individuals were consistently at the top of the class. Some of those students are still in my CHC so the comparing has continued throughout most of Year 2 as well.



I realize now that my language wasn't clear enough in earlier posts. These are not disgruntled students merely whining and complaining. These are students (four that I know of for sure) who are finding time to fill out AACOMAS and AMCAS applications in addition to their 2nd year coursework, clinic time, and board prep. They are securing letters of recommendation from their Year 1 faculty in Mesa, and they are paying money to submit applications and secondaries. And, as I mentioned earlier, they are requesting a letter of good standing from the Dean himself. To me, this is very different than casually wishing one could transfer. This isn't behavior you'd expect from someone just having a tough week or month in medical school. These decisions come from serious and unexpected concerns discovered only after leaving Mesa. My original point is still the same - the fact that even one top student at SOMA chose to go through this transfer process should send a cautionary message. I'm not telling people to choose any other school over SOMA; selecting a med school will always be a personal, individual decision. I'm trying to help people avoid being absolutely disappointed and shocked when they arrive at their CHC. Do as brucecanbeatyou encouraged a while back and visit your CHC(s) of interest to get a better picture of life after Year 1. His simple suggestions is still the best advice I've seen on this entire thread to anyone considering SOMA.



I'm not sure if all the 2nd year preceptors are volunteers. I believe this is the case, but not 100% sure. Again, my issue with this is how can the school ensure that quality clinical training is being carried out if they have minimal or no influence over these volunteer physicians?

Just think about the Med Skills course during Year 1. Each doctor hired to work with the students receives periodical training on how these Med Skills sessions are to be carried out. They are all given guidelines to work within (mostly, follow the Bates text). This standardizes the clinical training that students receive during Year 1. These physicians are free to share additional insights and tricks they've picked up through years of experience, but because they are employees of the school they are ultimately accountable to the course director, Dr. Bennett, for what they teach us. This ensures that they all stay pretty much on the same page and minimum standards are met.

When 2nd years are turned over to a varied assortment of volunteers scattered throughout the nation, how can the clinical training be standardized? Who are these physicians accountable to or overseen by? Some will provide incredible experiences for students and some will not. Some will teach correct clinical skills and some won't. Some will be happily waiting for you when you arrive for scheduled clinical hours, and some will be frequent no-shows. This invariably happens when you're working with volunteers rather than employees. For these reasons, I find paid adjunct faculty more appealing at this stage in my training. Difference of opinion, I suppose.

I sincerely hope you become one of SOMA's MS2s that delivers a baby. I searched out this old post by GreenShirt from 10-5-2008.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=525718&page=3

I still vividly remember reading that post 18 months ago. When I learned that s/he had already helped deliver a baby (only one month after starting Year 2), I was thrilled for the CHC experience that yet awaited me. On the spectrum of CHC experiences, this one definitely falls well toward the positive end. Unfortunately, there is another end of the spectrum. Here is one short line from an email I received on 12-2-2009 from a current SOMA student at a different CHC.

"Mid way through my third year I have only performed <10 pap smears and have never had a pregnant patient to follow."

I feel sick to my stomach every time I read that. I hope this is just a bizarre and unfortunate outlier. So many factors work together to determine what you'll experience during Years 2, 3, and 4 as a SOMA student. Some of these factors are within your control, but some are sadly not. The risk is undeniably there for anyone who selects this school, and I think it is a huge risk. My point of view is only one out of hundreds of current SOMA students, but I think it's an important one to include on this thread.

It sounds like the student who delivered a baby was the one who is the outlier!

After coming back from my Nova Southeastern interview, the dean talked about how every 1st year works alongside a doctor every friday mornings to get some clinical exposure. By 1 month in, the student is expected and taught to write soap notes. By 2nd semester, this student is the one examining the patient while the doctor watches over and guides him/her.

All in all, many schools are emphasizing clinical exposures. I wish this school was more honest on interview day about how every CHC is a different beast and the experiences so far have ranged from shadowing silently with your preceptor not seeming to care all the way to delivering a baby. From there the school can address the measures that are being taken to ensure that there is a standardization, otherwise it just seems pointless to come to such a crap shoot. Now that I think about it though, I'm not really sure I'd want my baby delivered by a newly acquainted 2nd year med student... maybe not even a resident haha.

I'd like to thank all of you for your input especially the student I'm quoting. After a lot of thought I've determined that I value my education too much to take such a gamble on this school.

 

[Arthroscope]

I'm getting sick of this, so Im just going to lay it out on the line.

Yes, I have a new account to SDN, and I felt like creating one after the slanderous remarks that are being made here to potential applicants and current members of this institution.

There are a few students who have not been able to pass this first year, or chose to withdraw after or during the first semester. They were apparently bitter about various issues and it appears they have nothing better to do then appear on the forum and attempt to slander the institition under the guise of 'exposing' the truth of the school. But in all actuality they don't know what they are talking about.

1. Yes, This was a new campus 4 years ago, the first years got more of an experimental curriculum than I have been getting currently. Will this be an issue for c/o 2014? NO. the curriculum is revamped every year, tweaked, and infused with heavy sciences.

2. Yes, SOMA curriculum is not like a traditional curriculum. It's systems based, which means we address pharm, path, phys, anatomy, biochem, etc strictly for that system during that block. If you cant remember a biochem pathway from the TCA cycle or the urea cycle and overlap it, you better look it up or do some studying on your own to make the connection. If you do things like this, you will probably be sitting at the top 10%. Additional work is not required to pass or even to do well. I know plenty of people who review strictly from slide presentations and do exceptionally well on exams. Soma also has PBL sessions ( although it refers to that as 'small group') interactive group review sessions, and many other tools to use if you want to use them. Many of it is not required attendance, so if this is not your method of learning, no one is forcing you.

3. 1st year is almost a conglomeration of a traditional curriculum's 1st and second years put together. The 1st year runs the whole 12 months, and is dense, and requires unrelenting effort. I have compared it to friends' curriculums including an allopathic program and to me it seems like they may as well be on vacation with the type of schedule they have. They do this so that you are well prepared to enter second year where you will be away from the home campus.
The end result? I find my level of knowledge allows me to currently hang with 2nd years from other programs, or even 3rd years for that matter.

4. The first year has additional courses like Medical skills, which is basically another term for physical diagnosis, and we do almost 10 OSCE's in the first year alone + pt simulations (ie. how to run a code, how to perform a pap smear, etc) . This experience is unparralleled currently in comparison to current other DO programs.

5. 2nd year curriculum is mainly online. At your CHC you watch a 'podcast' which is basically a videotape of a lecture and powerpoint review with your CHC mentor. Some CHC mentors will be able to answer questions related to pathophysiology, some may not. It depends where you are.
2nd year is a relaxed pace, allowing you time to perform duties at the CHC. These include doing H&P's, physical exams, and following patients. It also allows you alot of time to review class material for exams, and alot of additional time for Board Prep which is Exactly what I want.
I do not want to be burnt out from doing 2 years of hard work, then have to sprint for 6 weeks till I take the boards, but then again, that's just me.

2nd year is a Dream come true for self directed people like me. If you rely heavily on coming to class, being lectured to, interacting with the professor, the first 2 elements are there in the podcasts, the 3rd may be not. You will have to look up information yourself if you have additional questions sometimes, and of course, you have to do board studying on your own (like any other school). This obviously is not good for you if you are lazy, but if you are self directed, its practically pure autonomy.

6. There is ECHO360, which is a digital recording in HD of lectures and the classroom itself available the day of class lectures. You could literally stay home, spend all morning reading, and spend the afternoon reviewing the days lectures. Thats kind of my method, and suffice to say I am performing very well. We also get electronic copies of practically every book imaginable, and you could probably figure out how this can help you immensely.

7. I have spoken at length to various different people in 2nd year, and they have passed down insider information and relayed key messages about their experience with their CHC's and all of it has been positive in the manner I described it above.

8. If you want to be a gunner, the opportunity is here. Research is possible, even in first year, and there are many grants, and scholarships to be had via our school or Kirksville itself. If you follow along board books as you go through the 1st year to familiarize yourself with the pathognomonic scenarios which you will see on boards, I guarantee you will find that SOMA provides more than enough teaching, resources and information so that even if you do the bare minimum, you will pass the COMLEX. The first class EVER of this school had a pass rate of 89% which is nearly unheard of for an inaugural class at this school.
But wait you say, what were the scores? almost 60% of the class scored in the mid-upper 500's and several people (near 10) scored over 600.
Pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

9. it is true, you may encounter someone along the way, second or 3rd year that is a volunteer, and gives little to no S**t about your education. This is unfortunate, but not a scenario that remains specific to our school. It happens everywhere, and is simply part of climibing the medical ladder.
Medicine is full of Type A people who intelligent, yet selfish, uncaring, or have ulterior motives and enormous egos. you will not find this scenario this concentrated in any other profession. But then again, if you wanted to be in medicine, chances are, you are either this same kind of person, or you will encounter them and be forced to deal with it.

10. Sorry to hear that your friend didn't get alot of exposure on his/her Gyn rotation during third year. However your n=1 is anecdotal at best, and not enough to interject as a blanket statement to 3rd year rotations. Whether or not anyone knows this yet, is that this is the DO world. There are less schools, less training programs, Hell, even less of us in general compared to our allopathic counterparts. In many scenarios during rotations, your preceptor will NOT be paid. It's just the way it is, and something thats not specific to any program whether it be SOMA or any other DO school. It's just the way it is.

Is this bad? maybe, if you are very meek or have poor social skills, or are someone who needs perpetual direction and are less self directed. If I was volunteering to be your preceptor, and you had poor clinical abilities, I would probably be averse to spending additonal effort to coddle you along. Not saying this scenario happened to your friend, but you cannot always blame everything on everyone else without first examining onesself, right? If you are persistent, and you are enthusiastic, I guarantee people will want to go out of your way to help you. I used to teach before I came to medical school, and I can tell you from experience that I tended to gravitate towards the enthusiastic non-resistant to learning students and be more inclined to assist them. Consider behaving somewhat similar to this.

11. Lastly, To those people who feel strongly enough to come online and smash your school ( which happen to be an extremely small vocal minority of current students - if they are even students anymore) Consider that you may be graduating from this institution, and surely the last thing you want to accomplish is relaying to everyone that you were a poor student, were resistant to learning, had poor clinical skills, and maybe are a poor residency applicant. Becuase even if you didn't mean to come forth in this manner, you have done so by slandering our institution on an international public forum, which only makes everyone look bad in the end, when in reality it's only a very few who actually feel that way.

Current SOMA applicants/matriculants , I only have a few words to say to you, and they are: If you are dead set on primary care, attending ANY DO school in the country and performing the bare minimum and utilizing the least amount of effort will undoubtedly still get you there. You know what they call the very last guy in the class? Doctor. If you want to acheive more than this, I can Guarantee SOMA has to tools to do this and more. We do have an overwhelming amount of basic sciences, and I found that my level of knowledge in this realm is equatable to MD students already in 2nd year. I also kind of dislike biochem, as in I find it more boring than clinical applications, so I havent done much extra reading in it. I would not consider myself extremely intelligent, just a normal person who has an exceptional work ethic. My clinical skills are also very good, and will evolve addionally with my clinical exposure in 2nd year. By 3rd year, I should literally have a large leg up on students from othe rschools I will be rotating against, and should be able to run circles around them. Also, 3rd year grades are weighted more heavily than 1+2nd year grades by ALL residency programs, since this is where you relay the classroom skills into being an actual physician. If you already have exposure to this, logically you should succeed over other students in other programs who have had less exposure/purely classroom before reaching 3rd year.

SOMA is on the rise, and it's getting better every year. If you feel like going to a more established program, by all means do so. If you feel like getting on this train, you will not be dissapointed.

 

[Current2ndYear]

There are a few students who have not been able to pass this first year, or chose to withdraw after or during the first semester. They were apparently bitter about various issues and it appears they have nothing better to do then appear on the forum and attempt to slander the institition under the guise of 'exposing' the truth of the school.

What were the "various issues" that caused bitterness and led to some students willfully withdrawing from medical school? Failing to meet minimum academic standards is one thing, but what kind of issues (aside from personal, family, etc.) would cause someone to take the drastic step of withdrawing? Might be helpful to know for readers of this thread.

2nd year curriculum is mainly online. At your CHC you watch a 'podcast' which is basically a videotape of a lecture and powerpoint review with your CHC mentor.

This is not the case at every CHC. As far as I'm aware, Hawaii is the only CHC where watching the podcasts as a group is required by the CHC learning facilitator. Someone from another site can correct me if I'm wrong. Students at the majority of the CHCs can watch the podcasts whenever, with whomever, and wherever they wish.

2nd year is a relaxed pace, allowing you time to perform duties at the CHC. These include doing H&P's, physical exams, and following patients.

Just keep in mind that (depending on which preceptor you're working with at any given time) these weekly duties can also include silently shadowing someone for up to a 4 hour shift or - if you're fortunate - delivering babies and helping in the operating room.

Another point I don't think has been made yet is what happens when preceptors fail to show up or when they turn you away from your scheduled hours for whatever reason. At least some of the CHC learning facilitators require you to keep an average of 8 ICE hours per week throughout the 2nd year. This means that if you only get 4 clinical hours completed in one week (even through no fault of your own), you may very well find yourself scheduled to be in the clinic for 12 hours the following week. Not a big deal most of the time, but some students have been known to have 12 - 16 hours of clinic scheduled during the week before an exam.

2nd year is a Dream come true for self directed people like me. If you rely heavily on coming to class, being lectured to, interacting with the professor, the first 2 elements are there in the podcasts, the 3rd may be not. You will have to look up information yourself if you have additional questions sometimes, and of course, you have to do board studying on your own (like any other school). This obviously is not good for you if you are lazy, but if you are self directed, its practically pure autonomy.

I have to agree that the didactic aspects of Year 2 are a dream come true for self-directed students. The increased freedom and autonomy are unparalleled in comparison to other 2nd year med students. My issues and concerns deal almost exclusively with the clinical aspects of Year 2.

I have spoken at length to various different people in 2nd year, and they have passed down insider information and relayed key messages about their experience with their CHC's and all of it has been positive in the manner I described it above.

Please share some of the specifics; again, I think this type of information would greatly benefit readers of this thread. I admit my curiosity is piqued with phrases like "insider information" and "key messages." But it does worry me that in your varied and lengthy conversations with 2nd year students, "all of it has been positive." Not one individual has expressed any concerns or frustrations to you, even minimally?

it is true, you may encounter someone along the way, second or 3rd year that is a volunteer

To be clearer, I am talking about potentially everyone involved in your clinical medical education during 2nd and 3rd year, or even the vast majority of the people involved. Very different than an occasional encounter with someone along the way.

Sorry to hear that your friend didn't get alot of exposure on his/her Gyn rotation during third year. However your n=1 is anecdotal at best, and not enough to interject as a blanket statement to 3rd year rotations.

This 3rd year student is not a friend or even an acquaintance of mine. We have never met in person. It was a quote from an email I received where a current student was describing, in their own words, how their experience was going up to that point. I don't know what has taken place since December of last year with that individual.

My point in sharing that quote, as well as the link to GreenShirt's positive post, was to show the spectrum of experiences that are possible. I tried to be clear that I was not making a blanket statement in any way. I simply shared two individual experiences which lie at completely opposite ends of the spectrum. If you select this school your experience during the clinical years will likely fall somewhere between those two points, or perhaps even further beyond either one of them.

I am trying to be anecdotal on this thread. I am sharing for the most part my personal observations. I don't have a scientific evaluation to draw conclusions from, and I am not attempting to present research of any kind here. I'm sharing my personal point of view which sometimes includes emails, phone conversations, in-person discussions, etc. with others.

Lastly, To those people who feel strongly enough to come online and smash your school ( which happen to be an extremely small vocal minority of current students - if they are even students anymore) Consider that you may be graduating from this institution, and surely the last thing you want to accomplish is relaying to everyone that you were a poor student, were resistant to learning, had poor clinical skills, and maybe are a poor residency applicant. Becuase even if you didn't mean to come forth in this manner, you have done so by slandering our institution on an international public forum, which only makes everyone look bad in the end, when in reality it's only a very few who actually feel that way.

I am a current ATSU-SOMA student who plans on graduating from this institution. I am free to share my point of view about the medical school I chose to attend and how my experience is going up to this point. I can share both positive and negative discoveries, or I can be exclusively uplifting or critical of the school. I personally believe the school stands to gain more rather than lose more when students vocalize their frustrations and concerns. Hopefully you noticed the agenda for last week's SGA meeting with the Deans. Under the section for "Concerns/Suggestions from the Class of 2012" was this important question:

"Are all preceptors affiliated with the school reimbursed for taking students?"

I have no idea if my bringing up this issue recently on an SDN forum had anything to do with its appearance on the agenda. But it's clear I'm not the only student at SOMA with concerns about this specific aspect of the program.

SOMA is on the rise, and it's getting better every year.

I strongly agree with this statement, and I like to think I'm doing my small part to help this trend continue. If no one hears about what's lacking or failing in the program, how can these issues be fixed and improved for future students?

If you feel like going to a more established program, by all means do so. If you feel like getting on this train, you will not be dissapointed.

You can't promise lack of disappointment any more than I can promise complete disappointment. We can share our unique perspectives, experiences, and points of view honestly and openly. We can and should also remind readers (as I've tried to do) that one's individual remarks represent only one student out of 300+ students currently attending ATSU-SOMA.

 

[Current2ndYear]

I just found this in my email. It's the deans' answer to the question I mentioned in my earlier post.

"The last question: Are all preceptors affiliated with the school reimbursed for taking students? A: Rarely, currently preceptors are only reimbursed in Phoenix and Oregon. The Deans also said that this may change in the coming years because more preceptors are asking for compensation."

Good information to know when considering the school as well as a particular CHC of interest. And it sounds encouraging for future students.

 

[rosewater80]

I just found this in my email. It's the deans' answer to the question I mentioned in my earlier post.

"The last question: Are all preceptors affiliated with the school reimbursed for taking students? A: Rarely, currently preceptors are only reimbursed in Phoenix and Oregon. The Deans also said that this may change in the coming years because more preceptors are asking for compensation."

Good information to know when considering the school as well as a particular CHC of interest. And it sounds encouraging for future students.

Was it discussed why only the Oregon and Phoenix CHC's are reimbursed? Wouldn't other CHC's be somewhat jealous and as a result put in less effort toward student education? Are these the 2 best CHC's? Do they have more to offer and is that why they are getting paid while the others aren't? I wish the interview delved into this area a bit more. As much as I like hearing what students have to say, I know that theres accuracy when a dean says it over someone on sdn.

I calculated 108 students x $38,000 (yearly tuition) = 4.104 million/year is the sum of all 2nd year tuition/year.

You mean to tell me that online videos of lectures + oregon and phx reimbursements = 4.104 million?!

Now, next year there will be 4 classes. 4 x 4.104 million = 16.416 million is what the school will collect yearly from all 4 classes from next year on.

schools costs
med skills instructors 4 hrs/week, small group instructors 6hrs/week, the professors, admin, admissions, utility bills (I'm not missing a thing here), gardener for the lawn, janitors, oregon and phx mysteriously get paid but none others and it boils down to 16.416 million? I'm sure the school gets donations too so you have to factor that in as well. Donations aren't typically 20 bucks, they are more like 20k to multi-millions.

Another very crucial question I'd like answered maybe in the next deans meeting for me would be this: "If in the future other CHC's will likely get reimbursed then how much more will my tuition go up? If I am to take out loans, I'd like to take the correct amount out. Also, if the tuition does not go up significantly to account for the salaries of all other CHC's, then this makes me wonder where all the money is going to now?

It seems as though arthroscope can only be unprofessional in his language and conduct when writing posts. In addition, being that he IS a student, he is strongly biased towards the school and doesn't want "dirty laundry" leaking out...He has the schools best interest at heart and not students who wish to make an informed and educated decision about which medical school is best for them. He seems to only strongly endorse it to the point where it doesn't even sound true to the slightest. You can guarantee that I won't be disappointed if I come here? Well current2ndyear seems to be learning incorrect medical skills procedures. Can you name me another school that teaches its students wrong procedures? This is a huge deal! It doesn't matter if his CHC is getting paid or not. The doctors you are learning from should know proper physical examination and history taking procedures!

 

[dl5]

sean, you gotta give it a rest man. it's getting really really old.

 

[Melicopter]

All this bolding is getting a little out of hand...

Look, I'm not a current student here, but this is madness. The school is new, and has some kinks. On the other hand, I think the educational model they are working on has some great promise. I am interested in seeing the physicians this school turns out in the coming years, because I think they will excel in clinical skills, and in service to their communities.

Maybe the previous poster can't guarantee that everyone will have a good time - obviously not, since some people are trying to transfer out so we assume they're not having a good time - but many people are appreciating their educations at SOMA. It will always be a risk to go to a new school, but the upshot is that you could be part of an exciting movement in medical education.

I interviewed at a school that is one of the top ranked clinical schools in the country. The curriculum includes a lot of early exposure for students. Guess what the students say about preceptors? Some aren't there during scheduled times, or cancel last-minute. Some are amazing, some are rusty on skills and show you a different way than you learned in class. Doctors vary, and your experiences working with them will vary.

 

[Arthroscope]

Current 2nd year: You quoted but you left out the context from that email we all received. I will post it here.

" 2nd Year Tuition Distribution: Dr. X assured that tuition dollars go to where students are training. Tuition goes toward paying the campuses for provision of service, toward faculty at the campuses, compensating the CHCs for having students there, malpractice insurance, etc. To answer the specific question regarding SOMA providing the CHCs with money to improve facilities: No. Dr. XX mentioned that it is up to the CHCs to use the money they are given to improve facilities at their site (the CHC is in charge of the learning environment). However, the school did provide the campuses with initial equipment (computers, OMM supplies, etc.).The last question: Are all preceptors affiliated with the school reimbursed for taking students? A: Rarely, currently preceptors are only reimbursed in Phoenix and Oregon. The Deans also said that this may change in the coming years because more preceptors are asking for compensation "

That should give everyone a straight forward answer on that topic.


And Like I already explained, you are getting clinical experience PRIOR to your 3rd year, since SOMA allows you this opportunity in 2nd year.
I fail to see why you find 2nd year a negative aspect, but it appears you have no additional evidence to show prospective members of the school why 2nd year is supposedly not up to par. I listed several -which you did agree with matter of factly.

Whether or not this forum is for anecdotal tales or "I'd like to express my feelings about my school, no big deal" . I am in no incertain terms - warning you - that this kind of behavior only serves to stir up rumors, and in NO way shape or form, paints any kind of reasonable picture for people who will be considering this school for matriculation.

On that note. I'm pleased to announce that it appears our application list for the class of 2014 received more applicants than ever before. And these statistics can be verified by checking your AACOMAS page. To be nondiscreet, the class filled up very fast this year and so did the waitlist.

For clarification Current2ndyear, since you may not know, we had a few students drop out this year because of academic reasons, and I was being polite earlier when I addressed this topic, but the bones of the matter is, there was a specific student who was extremely vocal for their distaste of the school after bombing several exams, and was given the option to take a 5 year plan becuase of inadequate academic performance during the first semester. However was thenforth banned from campus for harrassing other students after several incidences. It seems that now that this person has nothing better to do since they are now free for the moment and no longer in school, they are posting random accounts and attempting to slander ATSU-SOMA on this forum.

It sucks big time, that students like myself have to appear here to set the record straight since Im currently in the midst of studying, but I honestly want everyone to have the real story, and not some BS gossip.

All in all, since there were record number of applicants to our school for the c/o 2014 (even moreso than the class of 2013) Seems to me like people know the real deal about SOMA, and are not fooled by any of these shenanigans going on here on SDN.

SOMA is an excellent school, and it preps you well. It is a vision come to life and its by ATSU, the oldest and most established Osteopathic school period. It is a standalone campus, and not a subdivision of KCOM, and its large enough to already be making waves.

 

[Arthroscope]

I interviewed at a school that is one of the top ranked clinical schools in the country. The curriculum includes a lot of early exposure for students. Guess what the students say about preceptors? Some aren't there during scheduled times, or cancel last-minute. Some are amazing, some are rusty on skills and show you a different way than you learned in class. Doctors vary, and your experiences working with them will vary.

You have excellent observational skills, and I'm glad you were able to see the forest for the trees. Many people in medical school complain about what they perceive to be 'issues' but in fact are common complaints pertaining to all medical training, and I'm thrilled you were able to notice that and not be as close-minded as some of the posters on this thread.

I wish you luck on the interview trail (although you have probably have a few acceptances by now), but good wishes anyways.

 

[ImOnAPlain51]

What were the "various issues" that caused bitterness and led to some students willfully withdrawing from medical school? Failing to meet minimum academic standards is one thing, but what kind of issues (aside from personal, family, etc.) would cause someone to take the drastic step of withdrawing? Might be helpful to know for readers of this thread.

He is referring to one student and it was failure to meet minimum academic standards unfortunately. This individual ended up verbally harassing several students and writing hateful emails to the class. He has continued to make remarks to students about the school that were much the same as Joes.

I just found this in my email. It's the deans' answer to the question I mentioned in my earlier post.

"The last question: Are all preceptors affiliated with the school reimbursed for taking students? A: Rarely, currently preceptors are only reimbursed in Phoenix and Oregon. The Deans also said that this may change in the coming years because more preceptors are asking for compensation."

Good information to know when considering the school as well as a particular CHC of interest. And it sounds encouraging for future students.

To be fair, we should post the entire response from the deans....

"Dr. X assured that tuition dollars go to where students are training. Tuition goes toward paying the campuses for provision of service, toward faculty at the campuses, compensating the CHCs for having students there, malpractice insurance, etc. To answer the specific question regarding SOMA providing the CHCs with money to improve facilities: No. Dr. XX mentioned that it is up to the CHCs to use the money they are given to improve facilities at their site (the CHC is in charge of the learning environment). However, the school did provide the campuses with initial equipment (computers, OMM supplies, etc.).The last question: Are all preceptors affiliated with the school reimbursed for taking students? A: Rarely, currently preceptors are only reimbursed in Phoenix and Oregon. The Deans also said that this may change in the coming years because more preceptors are asking for compensation."

So no, they aren't hoarding it and yes, most of the money goes to the CHC's.

Like Arthroscope, I have only had positive remarks made from the 2nd and 3rd years I've spoken too. This includes the CHC's that I was interested in. They highly endorsed the podcast based lectures and their clinical rotations. I'm not saying Current2ndYear making things up about his CHC or his experiences, I just have not received any feedback from any 2nd or 3rd years that have mentioned these problems.

Rosewater,

You sound just like Joes. Are you really an interviewee? Generally, interviewees don't make it priority and go to the lengths you have gone to, to slander a school. They just don't take acceptance to that school and leave it at that. I find it hard to believe that you and "Elizabeth" from Midwestern have access to the SOMA budget. Also, that she would talk poorly of other schools while you are interviewing for a position there, seems like you spent a long time talking about SOMA instead of Midwestern...that's not very professional. Midwestern is a fine school, is our neighbor that we work with, and I doubt they would make an effort bad mouth us.

You'll be surprised to learn that practicing physicians do not follow Bate's Guide to Physical Exam to a tee and develop their own methods of exam that they feel they are more comfortable with. You'll also be surprised to learn that a lot of schools do not pay their 2nd/3rd/4th year clinical preceptors (including allopathic schools). That is part of having students in a teaching hospital.

Arthroscope was not un-professional in his response, he just felt strongly about what he said. This is how myself and a lot of the students in my class feel about this thread as of late. It is frustrating when someone comes out of nowhere, without any ties to a school, and makes the accusations you have. We work hard here and your remarks are a slap in the face.

 

[Arthroscope]

It seems as though arthroscope can only be unprofessional in his language and conduct when writing posts. In addition, being that he IS a student, he is strongly biased towards the school and doesn't want "dirty laundry" leaking out...He has the schools best interest at heart and not students who wish to make an informed and educated decision about which medical school is best for them. He seems to only strongly endorse it to the point where it doesn't even sound true to the slightest. You can guarantee that I won't be disappointed if I come here? Well current2ndyear seems to be learning incorrect medical skills procedures. Can you name me another school that teaches its students wrong procedures? This is a huge deal! It doesn't matter if his CHC is getting paid or not. The doctors you are learning from should know proper physical examination and history taking procedures!

Dude, for someone who claims to not have an agenda, you spend way too much time on a Premed forum trying to talk bad about this school. Neither was I unprofessional, and I cited specific reasons as to why I felt the school had good and excellent reasons for me to feel positively about SOMA.

You didn't interview here this year and I know exactly why. In fact I probably overheard you say this exact quote about 'learning wrong skills' or something to quite a few people in one of your usual on campus 'rants' before you flunked out of here earlier this year.

Whoops! now everyone knows who ya are!

 

[rosewater80]

So cursing in a thread is perfectly professional but asking Elizabeth Hull how SOMA compares to AZCOM is not professional?

1. Elizabeth Hull from Midwestern issue

At the interview after getting accepted here, I went on the interview to AZCOM. Before the interview concluded, she asked if I had any other questions. I asked how midwestern compared to SOMA. She said well here at midwestern we have a true educational model. Professors are given 1 week to plan out 1 hour of lecture material. Every professor goes through 1 year of training by shadowing the professor they will be replacing/working with. Our questions are very board style. There was 1 more thing she mentioned but I don't remember because I thought it was minor.

She said, on the other hand, SOMA is more of a business model. After I asked how so? They rave about interactive learning thats dynamic and engaging. She said how dynamic and interactive are online podcasts? It is the cheapest modality of education. It's a 1 time effort for countless years and it provides no interaction with professors that an ordinary school would provide.

If I have offended anyones efforts, my deepest apologies. I am sure all of you will make wonderful physicians. I had concerns that I came here to have addressed. Some were and I'd like to thank bruce,melicopter,and mostly current2ndyear for their encouraging and two-sided input.

 

[pinklvr1014]

So cursing in a thread is perfectly professional but asking Elizabeth Hull how SOMA compares to AZCOM is not professional?

1. Elizabeth Hull from Midwestern issue

At the interview after getting accepted here, I went on the interview to AZCOM. Before the interview concluded, she asked if I had any other questions. I asked how midwestern compared to SOMA. She said well here at midwestern we have a true educational model. Professors are given 1 week to plan out 1 hour of lecture material. Every professor goes through 1 year of training by shadowing the professor they will be replacing/working with. Our questions are very board style. There was 1 more thing she mentioned but I don't remember because I thought it was minor.

She said, on the other hand, SOMA is more of a business model. After I asked how so? They rave about interactive learning thats dynamic and engaging. She said how dynamic and interactive are online podcasts? It is the cheapest modality of education. It's a 1 time effort for countless years and it provides no interaction with professors that an ordinary school would provide.

If I have offended anyones efforts, my deepest apologies. I am sure all of you will make wonderful physicians. I had concerns that I came here to have addressed. Some were and I'd like to thank bruce,melicopter,and mostly current2ndyear for their encouraging and two-sided input.

I'd recommend that if you don't like ATSU-SOMA and what they stand for then don't come here. End of story. I think my future classmates and I would appreciate not having such a bad attitude about the school around to distract us as we try and work our asses off to become doctors.

Every school has its problems, and I agree that students have a right to vocalize their problems. But there is a difference between constructive criticism and full out bashing...and the best place to do either is hardly on an anonymous forum that is available for everyone and their mother to see.
And nobody is helping anyone make decisions about schools by posting slander on SDN...there is no way in hell i'd choose a school based on SDN heresay...that'd be plain silly. You have to do your own research and base your decision based on your own feelings about the school.

I wish you good luck as you choose some other school, I hope it is everything you are looking for.

 

[Arthroscope]

I'd recommend that if you don't like ATSU-SOMA and what they stand for then don't come here. End of story. I think my future classmates and I would appreciate not having such a bad attitude about the school around to distract us as we try and work our asses off to become doctors.

Every school has its problems, and I agree that students have a right to vocalize their problems. But there is a difference between constructive criticism and full out bashing...and the best place to do either is hardly on an anonymous forum that is available for everyone and their mother to see.
And nobody is helping anyone make decisions about schools by posting slander on SDN...there is no way in hell i'd choose a school based on SDN heresay...that'd be plain silly. You have to do your own research and base your decision based on your own feelings about the school.

I wish you good luck as you choose some other school, I hope it is everything you are looking for.

Well said! Congrats on your acceptance, and we are exceptionally glad you will be a member of SOMA!

 

[Arthroscope]

So cursing in a thread is perfectly professional but asking Elizabeth Hull how SOMA compares to AZCOM is not professional?

1. Elizabeth Hull from Midwestern issue

At the interview after getting accepted here, I went on the interview to AZCOM. Before the interview concluded, she asked if I had any other questions. I asked how midwestern compared to SOMA. She said well here at midwestern we have a true educational model. Professors are given 1 week to plan out 1 hour of lecture material. Every professor goes through 1 year of training by shadowing the professor they will be replacing/working with. Our questions are very board style. There was 1 more thing she mentioned but I don't remember because I thought it was minor.

She said, on the other hand, SOMA is more of a business model. After I asked how so? They rave about interactive learning thats dynamic and engaging. She said how dynamic and interactive are online podcasts? It is the cheapest modality of education. It's a 1 time effort for countless years and it provides no interaction with professors that an ordinary school would provide.

If I have offended anyones efforts, my deepest apologies. I am sure all of you will make wonderful physicians. I had concerns that I came here to have addressed. Some were and I'd like to thank bruce,melicopter,and mostly current2ndyear for their encouraging and two-sided input.

I call your bluff.

You are not accomplishing anything name-dropping admissions committee staff member details nonchalantly from other schools in an effort to somehow verify your rediculous tangential arguments.

I also notice how you never acknowledge any positive FACTS, I and several other members of the current class have listed. These facts are undisputable.


Please move on and Stop polluting our thread.

 

[Current2ndYear]

Current 2nd year: You quoted but you left out the context from that email we all received. I will post it here.

I originally pointed out one specific question from the agenda, and subsequently included the one specific answer to that question. I am not attempting to hide anything from readers. If you read my posts, you'll see that I have not questioned where tuition money is going nor have I expressed concerns about how CHCs use the money they receive. Also, I have never raised the issue of improving facilities at the various CHCs. But thank you both for revealing this insightful information to readers. Perhaps we should include the entire agenda as well as every response in an effort to preserve context and fairness.

Now I feel I should clarify the additional information shared in hopes that no one will misinterpret it. See parentheses below.

"2nd Year Tuition Distribution: Dr. McWilliams assured that tuition dollars go to where students are training. Tuition goes toward paying the campuses for provision of service (example - when the toner runs out in the printer, someone at your CHC will order it and bill the school), toward faculty at the campuses (meaning, the OPP instructor and the one or two learning facilitators at your CHC, not your preceptors - with the exception of Oregon and Phoenix), compensating the CHCs for having students there (this is the money mentioned further down by Dr. Simon, the money outside of SOMA's management and direction), malpractice insurance, etc. To answer the specific question regarding SOMA providing the CHCs with money to improve facilities: No. Dr. Simon mentioned that it is up to the CHCs to use the money they are given to improve facilities at their site (the CHC is in charge of the learning environment). However, the school did provide the campuses with initial equipment (computers, OMM supplies, etc.).The last question: Are all preceptors affiliated with the school reimbursed for taking students? A: Rarely, currently preceptors are only reimbursed in Phoenix and Oregon. The Deans also said that this may change in the coming years because more preceptors are asking for compensation "

And Like I already explained, you are getting clinical experience PRIOR to your 3rd year, since SOMA allows you this opportunity in 2nd year.

I fail to see why you find 2nd year a negative aspect

Read my posts again, more slowly, to discover the specific aspects I find negative in my Year 2 experience. The overall concept of 2nd year is not negative; it's innovative and exciting and unique. It draws people to the program. It is a strength of the program for students currently experiencing the positive end of the clinical training spectrum.

I happen to take the position that if our preceptors were better incentivized, oriented to the goals our program, and made aware of the school's expectations during our clinical training, minimum standards of quality would be ensured for every student.

but it appears you have no additional evidence to show prospective members of the school why 2nd year is supposedly not up to par.

For the last time, 2nd year is not up to par for me personally. Please stop attempting to turn any of my remarks into a supposed "blanket statement" on this forum. Again, look at the GreenShirt post I included previously. It is obvious that Year 2 was far beyond being "up to par" for that individual.

As far as evidence, I included the deans' own answer to support my specific concern about preceptors not being paid. I was careful to state in previous posts that I did not know for sure if preceptors at other sites were paid; I referenced only my specific CHC. Once this information was made known yesterday, I included it on this forum to support my concern and to inform readers of the two CHCs that are excluded from this particular issue.

Please include your additional evidence to show prospective students why 2nd year is above any criticism or faultfinding. Maybe you could begin by expounding on the "insider information" and "key messages" you were fortunate enough to obtain.

I listed several -which you did agree with matter of factly.

Several what? Several of your own observations about 2nd year clinical experiences and life at a CHC? No, since you are still completing your first year at SOMA. Thank you for acknowledging that I agreed with you on a few points - points unrelated to my present concerns and frustrations. Did you notice the parts where I disagreed with you or had to clarify your statements for readers? Just making sure.

Whether or not this forum is for anecdotal tales or "I'd like to express my feelings about my school, no big deal" . I am in no incertain terms - warning you - that this kind of behavior only serves to stir up rumors, and in NO way shape or form, paints any kind of reasonable picture for people who will be considering this school for matriculation.

I'm not sure yet how I feel about being warned so strongly...awkward is probably the best description.

I entered this forum to ensure that a "reasonable picture" was being painted for readers. I originally was bothered by comments that seemed to suggest that complainers or criticizers of SOMA were the equivalent of lazy, immature, incompetent medical students. That struck a nerve with me because I personally have complaints and criticisms about my experience this year, but I also highly value my individual work ethic and academic achievements. And I knew some of my closest friends at this school - exceptionally bright and hard-working students - were also dissatisfied currently.

It makes more sense to me now that I'm aware of the drama surrounding a bitter student who failed in your class. But I still feel there is room on this forum for people to voice their frustrations and questions about how the program is being run. I question your thinking behind painting the picture only through the lens of positivity, optimism, and general contentment. How is that reasonable or logical when you're dealing with 300+ students spread throughout the country? Surely someone, somewhere is facing obstacles and issues related to the program. Including and inviting those perspectives ensures that the picture stays reasonable for readers.

To sum up my perspective:

I loved my first year at ATSU-SOMA.
I have experienced unexpected frustrations and disappointments during most of Year 2.
I think many problems I've encountered would be alleviated if 2nd year preceptors were paid for their time.
I strongly think that 3rd and 4th year preceptors should be financially compensated at all clinical sites.
I'm cautiously optimistic about my remaining two years in the program.
I plan on keeping people posted as my individual journey continues.

 

[pinklvr1014]

Well said! Congrats on your acceptance, and we are exceptionally glad you will be a member of SOMA!

Thanks! 😀 I'm pretty darn excited myself!

 

[Arthroscope]

I originally pointed out one specific question from the agenda, and subsequently included the one specific answer to that question. I am not attempting to hide anything from readers. If you read my posts, you'll see that I have not questioned where tuition money is going nor have I expressed concerns about how CHCs use the money they receive. Also, I have never raised the issue of improving facilities at the various CHCs. But thank you both for revealing this insightful information to readers. Perhaps we should include the entire agenda as well as every response in an effort to preserve context and fairness.

Thank you for acknowledging that you did not include the complete context of the information.

Read my posts again, more slowly, to discover the specific aspects I find negative in my Year 2 experience. The overall concept of 2nd year is not negative; it's innovative and exciting and unique. It draws people to the program. It is a strength of the program for students currently experiencing the positive end of the clinical training spectrum.

I happen to take the position that if our preceptors were better incentivized, oriented to the goals our program, and made aware of the school's expectations during our clinical training, minimum standards of quality would be ensured for every student.

I do not need to rexamine your posts, nor do I have trouble with the english language as you so eloquently inflected.

For the last time, 2nd year is not up to par for me personally. Please stop attempting to turn any of my remarks into a supposed "blanket statement" on this forum. Again, look at the GreenShirt post I included previously. It is obvious that Year 2 was far beyond being "up to par" for that individual.

I am quite aware of what you posted, and spent several of my last posts basically refuting your n=1 statements, regarding the 'unsatisfying' clinical experience you had at *specific* points during your second year. In an effort to help your position, you listed the fact that you thought many people were also unsatisfied along with reasons why. If you weren't paying attention, I also relayed the fact that you are not as well versed as you think you are on how the current medical tier works at Osteopathic programs. You were unsatisfied with the fact that preceptors were not always compensated, and I relayed to you the fact that this was the DO world and not something unique to this program, or even many allopathic programs. Maybe it is you who has the reading comprehension issue?

Please include your additional evidence to show prospective students why 2nd year is above any criticism or faultfinding. Maybe you could begin by expounding on the "insider information" and "key messages" you were fortunate enough to obtain.

My key information was regarding books to obtain, board review tips, and how to interact with some of my future preceptors, and different personalities. They are not pertinent to address here and do not relate to this thread. The purpose of my bringing this up, is the same as Imonaplain51 relayed: I have not heard anything negative about their current CHC experience thus far. My n is far more than 1, I assure you.

Several what? Several of your own observations about 2nd year clinical experiences and life at a CHC? No, since you are still completing your first year at SOMA. Thank you for acknowledging that I agreed with you on a few points - points unrelated to my present concerns and frustrations. Did you notice the parts where I disagreed with you or had to clarify your statements for readers? Just making sure.

You can attempt to belittle me by indicating that I am still a first year, and you are somehow more informed and superior being in the position of 2nd year, but this has absolutely no bearing on any part of this discussion. I never made any unfounded assumptions, simply listed FACTS about resources the school has, relayed Positive experiences by many people I have interacted with, and listed them by number so they were clear. I did not make simplistic anecdotal statements and attempt to paint them as blanket remarks regarding the validity of the schools current process, as you did (re-read your old posts). Additionally You *did* agree with many of the factual statements I had posted. I posted these so that prospective students could get a two-sided picture of the way the curriculum is layed out and what may be in store for them, instead of simply having your one sided view of your own personal negative experience.

You can attempt a straw man argument and try to imply that I was specifically addressing you when I was creating that post. In fact I was not. I am not here to discuss your present concerns or frustrations, I am here to set the record straight and provide both sides of the story. In fact with all this slanderous conversation, I made a forthright attempt to clarify some esoteric blanket staments, and refute your 'concerns' as being trivial, and they are something that comes along with the process of becoming a physician, and not necissarily a down fall of the school.

I'm not sure yet how I feel about being warned so strongly...awkward is probably the best description.

You can attempt to be 'elitist' and paint my comment as rediculous, but I'm actually being serious here. You should know better than to come on This international forum and slander your own school. It does no one any good, and I Highly doubt the deans really care about one students inflammatory remarks, I can guarantee you they have better things to worry about rather than bringing up an anonymous posters' comments or feelings at a faculty meeting because of what you posted on SDN.

I entered this forum to ensure that a "reasonable picture" was being painted for readers. I originally was bothered by comments that seemed to suggest that complainers or criticizers of SOMA were the equivalent of lazy, immature, incompetent medical students. That struck a nerve with me because I personally have complaints and criticisms about my experience this year, but I also highly value my individual work ethic and academic achievements. And I knew some of my closest friends at this school - exceptionally bright and hard-working students - were also dissatisfied currently.

Uh, no you didn't try to paint a reasonable picture of anything. You made gratuitous borderline slanderous comments regarding the lack of clinical experiences you had and tied them into how the school had exceptional shortcomings. No one claimed that anyone except one poster was lazy, immature, and incompetent, That poster being Joes, who happens to be a previous member of the class of 2013. I don't really care if anything struck a cord in you, and in fact I also don't care if you value your own work ethic. I also value my own work ethic as does probably every other member of SOMA, and neither of our work ethics have any relation to how 'good' of a school SOMA is.

It makes more sense to me now that I'm aware of the drama surrounding a bitter student who failed in your class. But I still feel there is room on this forum for people to voice their frustrations and questions about how the program is being run. I question your thinking behind painting the picture only through the lens of positivity, optimism, and general contentment. How is that reasonable or logical when you're dealing with 300+ students spread throughout the country? Surely someone, somewhere is facing obstacles and issues related to the program. Including and inviting those perspectives ensures that the picture stays reasonable for readers.

There is room for anyone and everyone to voice their opinions, and that is not what we are addressing. It seemed this thread devolved into a b*tchfest for bitter former students and others who weren't satisfied for some reason, and attempted to paint SOMA in a bad light without giving both sides of the story.

Overall, You think too highly of yourself, and you aren't 'campaigning for change' or whatever you think you are accomplishing by posting your concerns here. Maybe try sending a letter to the dean personally, or approaching your CHC preceptor instead of attacking the school anonymously here in some pseudo-altruistic effort to get someone to listen to your dissatisfactions.

Overall, you've taken this thread to a whole new level by attempting to personally start some kind of a war with me, and spend egregarious amounts of time dissecting my posts. I don't understand what is wrong with you, if you have concerns (which seem trivial and rediculous to me) maybe you should take them up with the appropriate resource, those of which I have already mentioned. I'm not painting an overly rosy picture of SOMA, I'm just totally sick of the negative remarks which have a shaky premise at best made by you and the other posters here on this thread.

If you don't like this school, do me a favor and transfer out of it.

I certainly shouldn't have to defend why I actually Like this school and have pride in this school to you, or anyone else for that matter. It's even more unbeleivable to me that you would choose to come and attempt to slander your school in front of the rest of not only your class, but the entire SOMA body, including staff members who may read these threads.

Overall, I'm dissapointed in this whole scenario, as well as the fact that I'm done addressing your posts and arguing with you.

Hopefully you will have some better experiences in your future becoming a physician, and perhaps gain the ability to have a greater degree of foresight

 

[Current2ndYear]

Hopefully you will have some better experiences in your future becoming a physician, and perhaps gain the ability to have a greater degree of foresight

Thanks. Good luck to you as well.

 

[melissaliss]

So many bad vibes on this thread. Perhaps it's time for all of the current students to agree to disagree? Anyway, in an effort to redirect ... If I'm accepted, I'm 99% positive I'll choose the Phoenix CHC since I've lived in Phoenix my entire life and my entire family and significant other are here. How can I go about visiting the CHC and seeing how things operate, etc? I assume I can't just show up. Is there someone in particular I could contact? Should I just contact the CHC directly? The school?

 

[Melicopter]

That is a great question. I wish they had an easier way for people to do this.

I tried to visit a CHC and in the end it never worked out. I know a doctor who evidently knew someone who was at the one in my state, and said he'd get in touch with the person, but I never heard anything after repeated contacts (according to the doctor). I should have been more proactive about it, as I also contacted a student who cc'd some students at my CHC of interest. I hoped they'd contact me, but I could have taken the ball on that.

This would be a great place for the school to make improvements. Since we'd be spending 3/4 years at a CHC, we really should have the opportunity to check them out. I never tried contacting ATSU directly, so that may be a good thing to try.

 

[OMMDOC]

After observing “discussions” about SOMA on this site, I would like to put in my own experience/observation as a prospective student.

1. I had the ability to attend two SOMA class sessions in my hometown CHC, meet the facilitators (shadowed one of them for over a week), and interact with 2nd and 3rd year students. Everyone that I spoke to at my local CHC loved SOMA and spoke very highly of it. In fact, I did not hear anything negative about the school at all. The third year student told me that half of his group is planning on specializing and the other half likes primary care. I got to see a couple of 2nd year lectures/podcasts and definitely agree that this type of learning is not for everyone. You have to be very self-motivated and a hard worker in order to be successful here. If you are a slacker and need someone to constantly watch you and push you/make you do the work; this school might not be for you. The second year is kind of like being home schooled, where you have all the material given to you and you yourself need to put in that effort to study hard, maintain focus and especially not get behind. If you know that you are not one of those self-motivated, focused students, and you go here just because it’s your only acceptance, then yes, you might be disappointed.

2. Last week, I was talking to a D.O. oncologist at the hospital where I work and because I was going to interview at SOMA this past Friday, I asked him what he knew/heard about SOMA. He told me that he was actually a preceptor for oncology rotations for both SOMA and Western COMP students. He admitted that he was a little worried after agreeing to be a preceptor for SOMA because it was a brand new school and the students might not be prepared or have the proper knowledge. He then told me that so far he had two female students from SOMA do rotations with him and he was “very surprised at how bright, intelligent and well prepared both of those students were." He also mentioned that he didn't see any difference in the knowledge or preparedness of the SOMA students compared to the Western COMP students that he has had. This was coming from a person not directly related with SOMA, and he had another, well established school to compare SOMA with. When I heard him praise SOMA and its students, I became confident that SOMA had to be doing something right and being a new school, they are already producing great future physicians.

Of course every school has its own problems, especially brand new schools, but imagine how good SOMA will be at preparing its students once all of the kinks are worked out, and once all the CHCs and facilitators are more or less equal. I think that Dean Wood said it well when he addresses us on Friday; he said that all of the medical schools out there have been producing great physicians for a very long time, but based on the latest research data, SOMA is trying to make medical education and future physicians - better!

 

[ImOnAPlain51]

After observing “discussions” about SOMA on this site, I would like to put in my own experience/observation as a prospective student.

1. I had the ability to attend two SOMA class sessions in my hometown CHC, meet the facilitators (shadowed one of them for over a week), and interact with 2nd and 3rd year students. Everyone that I spoke to at my local CHC loved SOMA and spoke very highly of it. In fact, I did not hear anything negative about the school at all. The third year student told me that half of his group is planning on specializing and the other half likes primary care. I got to see a couple of 2nd year lectures/podcasts and definitely agree that this type of learning is not for everyone. You have to be very self-motivated and a hard worker in order to be successful here. If you are a slacker and need someone to constantly watch you and push you/make you do the work; this school might not be for you. The second year is kind of like being home schooled, where you have all the material given to you and you yourself need to put in that effort to study hard, maintain focus and especially not get behind. If you know that you are not one of those self-motivated, focused students, and you go here just because it’s your only acceptance, then yes, you might be disappointed.

2. Last week, I was talking to a D.O. oncologist at the hospital where I work and because I was going to interview at SOMA this past Friday, I asked him what he knew/heard about SOMA. He told me that he was actually a preceptor for oncology rotations for both SOMA and Western COMP students. He admitted that he was a little worried after agreeing to be a preceptor for SOMA because it was a brand new school and the students might not be prepared or have the proper knowledge. He then told me that so far he had two female students from SOMA do rotations with him and he was “very surprised at how bright, intelligent and well prepared both of those students were." He also mentioned that he didn't see any difference in the knowledge or preparedness of the SOMA students compared to the Western COMP students that he has had. This was coming from a person not directly related with SOMA, and he had another, well established school to compare SOMA with. When I heard him praise SOMA and its students, I became confident that SOMA had to be doing something right and being a new school, they are already producing great future physicians.

Of course every school has its own problems, especially brand new schools, but imagine how good SOMA will be at preparing its students once all of the kinks are worked out, and once all the CHCs and facilitators are more or less equal. I think that Dean Wood said it well when he addresses us on Friday; he said that all of the medical schools out there have been producing great physicians for a very long time, but based on the latest research data, SOMA is trying to make medical education and future physicians - better!

That's great news and thanks for sharing OMMDOC.

Melissaliss and Melicopter, I don't have a definitive answer about visiting or shadowing a SOMA CHC. I would start with SOMA admissions, maybe they can direct you somewhere. In the mean time, I'll see if I can find out some more information that might help you guys out. They do have CHC presentations at the beginning of the school year to help make a decision about choosing your CHC...but that doesn't really help you right now and this is something that could be improved for applicants.

 

[brucecanbeatyou]

That is a great question. I wish they had an easier way for people to do this.

I tried to visit a CHC and in the end it never worked out. I know a doctor who evidently knew someone who was at the one in my state, and said he'd get in touch with the person, but I never heard anything after repeated contacts (according to the doctor). I should have been more proactive about it, as I also contacted a student who cc'd some students at my CHC of interest. I hoped they'd contact me, but I could have taken the ball on that.

This would be a great place for the school to make improvements. Since we'd be spending 3/4 years at a CHC, we really should have the opportunity to check them out. I never tried contacting ATSU directly, so that may be a good thing to try.

I visited the NY CHC before coming by meeting someone on sdn, haha. It worked out great. But yeah, you can definitely call the admissions office, and they will give you emails of students willing to show you around.

 

[Trichic81]

Hi, I know it's only been a week, but has anyone from the 16th interviews heard anything yet? I know, it is supposed to be 2-3 weeks, I am just getting anxious. lol 😛

 

[TruBlue]

How can I go about visiting the CHC and seeing how things operate, etc? I assume I can't just show up. Is there someone in particular I could contact? Should I just contact the CHC directly? The school?

First, I would contact Joyce and see if she can refer you to contact someone at the CHCs. I had a very difficult time getting through to the Phoenix CHC directly (there are multiple clinics too). Emailing the doctors there seemed to work best.

I visited one of the Phoenix CHCs a couple of weeks ago. I came away extremely impressed not only by the quality of the medical providers, but as well as how friendly the staff was. The clinic was very well organized and in many ways, nicer than the clinic that I work at!

I emailed Joyce about getting more information about CHCs and also some 1st and 2nd year students. They referred me to different doctors to contact regarding shadowing. I sent out quite a few emails and had to be pretty persistent, and eventually someone emailed me back. The ATSU website also has some good information for anyone interested in becoming a Hometown candidate and I'm sure Joyce can also provide you with more information should you need it.

Overall - it was a great day and a great experience. The doctor I shadowed said they hope to be expanding in the near future since the need for more public health is so great in this area. I hope this happens soon! This is exciting, but I'm not sure how or if this will affect rotations in the future. Working in Public health definitely has some perks (loan repayment, benefits) and the patients are soooo sincere and most are really grateful for the help and service that you are providing them. Having dealt with many patients in Scottsdale and other places (as I'm sure haughty attitudes are not localized to only Scottsdale...), this is a welcome change to have patients truly appreciate you taking the time to take care of them. I've been in medicine long enough to know this is not always the case, but that day must have been my lucky day!

We spent a good deal of time talking about the school, the curriculum, the students, boards, medicine, health care reform, and a variety of topics. I came away impressed - not only with the doctor, but also excited about working at CHCs and excited for the curriculum at SOMA. It's not perfect and the curriculum will not and cannot account for every zebra medical condition out there - but it will provide a general framework and move you in the right direction. Overall, it made me even that more enthusiastic about this school.

As someone else posted earlier - I would highly recommend spending a day at a CHC talking to docs and students and learning about the CHC and curriculum to get a better idea of what this school is like and in particular what to expect during 2nd year.

I think SOMA is on the right track and am sure they will turn out some fantastic doctors!

Good luck to all...

 

[melissaliss]

Any students affiliated with a Phoenix CHC care to PM me? Thanks! =)

 

[Flushot]

So cursing in a thread is perfectly professional but asking Elizabeth Hull how SOMA compares to AZCOM is not professional?

1. Elizabeth Hull from Midwestern issue

At the interview after getting accepted here, I went on the interview to AZCOM. Before the interview concluded, she asked if I had any other questions. I asked how midwestern compared to SOMA. She said well here at midwestern we have a true educational model. Professors are given 1 week to plan out 1 hour of lecture material. Every professor goes through 1 year of training by shadowing the professor they will be replacing/working with. Our questions are very board style. There was 1 more thing she mentioned but I don't remember because I thought it was minor.

She said, on the other hand, SOMA is more of a business model. After I asked how so? They rave about interactive learning thats dynamic and engaging. She said how dynamic and interactive are online podcasts? It is the cheapest modality of education. It's a 1 time effort for countless years and it provides no interaction with professors that an ordinary school would provide.

If I have offended anyones efforts, my deepest apologies. I am sure all of you will make wonderful physicians. I had concerns that I came here to have addressed. Some were and I'd like to thank bruce,melicopter,and mostly current2ndyear for their encouraging and two-sided input.

I hate to bring back something 'negative' but I'll bring it around. Why was Dr. Hull interviewing people for AZCOM? She is in the CHS department, but then again I guess they could've just asked her to fill in for a day or two. Secondly, I find it hard to believe she would outright call out another school, especially one that AZCOM works with. It's not like her to do that (I had her for my SMP).

I just got back from the TOPS program around the Phoenix area and I did manage to chat with a lot of SOMA students. We talked for a bit about school and how things were going while waiting for the next bus to come with new kids. They were all really cool and laid back. I would love to meet more SOMA people in 3rd year if they happen to stick around.

AZCOM and SOMA are different and hopefully you'll know what you want and what to look for on the interview trail. We might all end up in a similar place, working together and so forth, so go where you'll do the best and feel the best.

 

[ImOnAPlain51]

I hate to bring back something 'negative' but I'll bring it around. Why was Dr. Hull interviewing people for AZCOM? She is in the CHS department, but then again I guess they could've just asked her to fill in for a day or two. Secondly, I find it hard to believe she would outright call out another school, especially one that AZCOM works with. It's not like her to do that (I had her for my SMP).

I just got back from the TOPS program around the Phoenix area and I did manage to chat with a lot of SOMA students. We talked for a bit about school and how things were going while waiting for the next bus to come with new kids. They were all really cool and laid back. I would love to meet more SOMA people in 3rd year if they happen to stick around.

AZCOM and SOMA are different and hopefully you'll know what you want and what to look for on the interview trail. We might all end up in a similar place, working together and so forth, so go where you'll do the best and feel the best.

Thanks for kind words. I was at the TOPs program and had a great experience. It was great working with and meeting the AZCOM students and faculty. Hopefully, I see you all again along the way.

 

[BornforMedicine]

Do accepted students have until May 1 to pay the $1000 matriculation fee? If so, should we expect to see some waitlist movement afterwards? Does anyone know if they are done interviewing?

 

[sbck20]

interviewed on april 16th, received a phone call today and got accepted for the fall, or at least thats what i heard!! very surprised since they told us we were interviewing for either a pending list or alternate list.

 

[pinklvr1014]

interviewed on april 16th, received a phone call today and got accepted for the fall, or at least thats what i heard!! very surprised since they told us we were interviewing for either a pending list or alternate list.

Congrats!!! They must have really like you 🙂
Hopefully we will see you in July! If you take their offer make sure you join our fb group! 🙂

rumor is there is a class field trip to the grand canyon at the end of orientation!..well this isn't really a rumor since Joyce Haynie told us were were going..so i guess its more like fact 😉

 

[Flushot]

Thanks for kind words. I was at the TOPs program and had a great experience. It was great working with and meeting the AZCOM students and faculty. Hopefully, I see you all again along the way.

Yeah, it would be great to meet some SOMA folks again, although, who knows what happens 3rd year. I thought it was a little ridiculous to drive out to Gilbert when the other group has to go to Sunnyside, but it was fun nonetheless.

 

[fretolay]

I interviewed last Friday 4/30 and just got a call that I was accepted. I am also not sure if it will be for fall 2010 or 2011. Can anyone who recently got their acceptance let me know how it ended up being offered.

Thanks

 

[sbck20]

I interviewed last Friday 4/30 and just got a call that I was accepted. I am also not sure if it will be for fall 2010 or 2011. Can anyone who recently got their acceptance let me know how it ended up being offered.

Thanks

Congrats on your acceptance! i got accepted after the 16th interview and it was for 2010. i wasnt sure either b/c i was in shock and didnt listen thoroughly but i got my packet and it said for the fall. i would assume your in for the fall as well

 

[fretolay]

Congrats on your acceptance! i got accepted after the 16th interview and it was for 2010. i wasnt sure either b/c i was in shock and didnt listen thoroughly but i got my packet and it said for the fall. i would assume your in for the fall as well

Thats great to hear. I was completely in shock when I got the call since they said it would be a minimum of three weeks before we would hear anything. Look forward to seeing you there.

 

[sebrewer]

So I have just been reading through some of the last couple pages of posts and want to add my experience of second year. I am at the Oregon CHC. For me second year has been the best year so far. My experience at this school has been very positive (though definitely not perfect). I do not have the concerns that other people have (but I am pretty sure I am at a different CHC). I will attempt to address some of other peoples concerns and why they are not a concern to me.

Some people are very concerned at the variety of experiences people are getting in clinic. It is important to remember that this is not a rotation, but some extra time to hone clinical skills. Most of the clinical experiences are with family physicians - so you won't see a lot of births, surgeries, or other stuff. Some places do have Ob/Gyn rotations or other rotations and do get to see and do more and that is an extra bonus. My clinic was just family practice. I got to see several procedures, but mostly got to practice my clinical skills. As apposed to a more traditional curriculum I get a chance to practice histories and physicals on real patients before going out on rotations (instead of doing my first history and physical on a real patient in a rotation).

There were some concerns that the facilitators didn't do things exactly right or did cursory exams. That can also be a teaching tool. They are doing focused exams and working under tight time constraints (especially in CHCs). It is a chance to learn what is important to look for in various complaints and how to gather an assimilate information quickly and accurately. When you go in the room, do a complete and through history and physical - don't cut corners. Then watch your preceptor and ask why they do or don't do certain things and take it as an opportunity to learn (even if it is an opportunity to learn what not to do!).

The next concern I saw was that facilitators are not being paid. I fail to see this as a problem. From what I understand traditionally doctors have never been paid for taking students and payments for rotations and other things is really a more recent trend. I do think our school does compensate the clinic to offset any revenue lost because the doctor can't see as many patients. Payment takes away the altruistic motives of taking students and I personally really don't care to work with someone who only wants me there for a little extra money. I fail to see how paying facilitators will improve their teaching (in fact I think it would mostly cause the opposite). In regards to some more structure as to what we should be learning, seeing, doing in clinic - I think that would be beneficial. But it is also important to be proactive in you education and from what I understand you will need to be proactive in rotations and residency.

I personally have really enjoyed clinic. I have been able to practice my clinical skills, learn a lot about what medicine is really like to practice, and see a lot of interesting things. It really helps to solidify what I am learning in class. My facilitators have done they best to give me varied experience with other specialties in addition to family practice and I only see more opportunities for future classes.

In regards to didactics. I really enjoy the podcasts. I appreciate the ability to learn on my own and at my own pace. However, I am not someone who asks a lot of questions in class and perhaps someone who needs more interaction would have a hard time. While there are some podcasts that are repeats from last year, that is not true for the majority of the cases (and even live lectures are really just repeats of the same lecture from the previous year). Being able to do most of my studying at home is really nice because I have a family. I get to see my wife and kids a lot more this year than I did last year. It is a major plus.

Our facilitator here is very knowledgeable and takes the time to listen to most of our lectures every week so she can help explain things to us and answer our questions. Our OPP facilitator does an excellent job helping us understanding the principles behind treatments so that we aren't just memorizing steps in a process. It is also nice to have such a small group at each site. You feel like you are in a class of 10 (as opposed to 300 at most schools).

Of course there are things that I would like to see improved, but most of them have to do with how new the program is (mostly I would like to see better organization of courses and material and having some more faculty) and are being continually addressed by the school. Don't come if you expect all your education to be handed to you. I would think that to get a good education at any school you will have to be proactive and define your own experience, but it may be a little harder any new school.

As far as I can tell, the other students at my CHC are also enjoying this year and do not have some of the concerns that have been expressed here. Some people have talked about visiting CHCs and talking to students that are there. I would reiterate that that is the best way to find out what things are like. The best way that I know to do that is to contact admissions. They can put you in touch with students at any of the CHCs.

I hope this helps anyone who is curious about the school or trying to decide whether to come here or not.

 

[bassfrk402]

Hi all,

I'm new to the thread and decided to join in because I just got recently accepted to SOMA last week! 😀 I'm so excited to attend. Going to my interview was the first time I actually stayed in Arizona and appreciate the area and people. If you don't mind if I change the tonality of the thread, it seemed pretty dense/informative, but I'd like to inquire if I can ask anyone here for housing options. I apologize if this is appropriate for this thread; I want my first year at SOMA to be awesome, so if you'd want to split an apartment, I'd be down for that. PM me or email me!