Baylor vs UNC - advice?

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Hello SDN community, I'm trying to decide between Baylor and UNC and just thought I'd see if anyone has any advice. I'm currently living in Houston so know what the city is like, but I have only visited Chapel Hill and am intrigued by the small-town feel and outdoorsy opportunities. Also, since I'm a Texas resident, Baylor would be less expensive the first year, but after a year I could get in-state tuition in NC, which would make UNC about $25,000 more expensive overall (without knowing anything about financial aid). One more difference - UNC appears to be changing its curriculum so that it will be fairly similar to Baylor's (1.5 year pre-clinicals, etc.) but I will be in the first such class, so will be one of the guinea pigs.

I know that ultimately I need to evaluate the pluses and minuses myself, but I'd love to hear thoughts on the schools or locations. Thanks for any help!

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I've visited Chapel Hill multiple times and was in a similar situation in the past as I considered going to UNC as an OOS student. While I ultimately chose to go elsewhere, I did interact a lot of UNC students and the admissions office on multiple occasions and figured I'd just let you know my thoughts. None of this will speak to Baylor, as I didn't even apply, but maybe my experience will give you another case to which to compare your own thoughts.

Cons that ultimately led me to go elsewhere

1) I was turned off by the lack of geographic diversity at UNC. I didn't think it would be a big deal, but on each of my visits it felt as if I was going to be on the outside looking in until I became immersed in North Carolina culture. It's not that I have anything against North Carolina, I just didn't like that my interview day, and subsequent conversations with students, always seemed to revolve around UNC-Duke or UNC-NC State, or various other aspects of life that I really didn't feel connected to.

2) For me, UNC was more expensive (even with the IS tuition after the first year). My thought is that unless there is a huge difference, the cheaper option is often the better option.

3) Students seemed a bit stressed about tests when I chatted with them (more so than at the school I ultimately chose to attend). It's totally subjective, but with limited contact time I suppose every impression counts?

4) This concerns you (as it wasn't really a part of the considerations for me), but being the first to experience a curriculum doesn't seem great. For example, Ohio State rolled out a new curriculum a couple years ago, and even today people are complaining about kinks in the system. What's more, that first year I don't think anybody had anything good to say. Such large policy changes take time to perfect, and considering medical school is already going to be a transition, it would make more sense to me not to be at a place where the administration is also going through the changes.

Pros that almost had me at UNC

1) That school is in a beautiful area. Talk about an environment where you can have a high quality of life - UNC is fantastic.

2) Franklin Street (I think it's called) was awesome, and I feel like UNC in general had a great mix of places including those at which you could go out and party hard and those at which you could have a classier or more chill evening. It's clearly subjective and depends on what you like to do, but of all the places I visited I visited, for medical school or just visiting friends around the country, I really thought UNC provided perhaps the best off-campus areas (clearly it's different than a New York City or something, but I was just fine with that).

3) UNC Public Health is amazing. I don't know how much interest you have in that, but it's really awesome. They have some great researchers, and it would be incredibly easy to thread meaningful public health work experiences into your medical school experience.

4) People were just generally nice. This was probably 3-4 years ago, but the first time I went to UNC, I stopped at a restaurant and told the server that it was my first time in the state and they picked up the tab and said welcome! I just felt like that experience characterized how the people were more generally.

Honestly, if UNC were a little closer to 50-50 IS vs. OOS, I might have ended up there; it was just had the appearance of being a bit to homogenous for my liking. Combined with the financial considerations, it was enough to make me choose to look elsewhere (and if the curriculum factor had been thrown in, that sentiment would just have been reinforced). Hope my limited experience helps in some way to either confirm or negate your own fears, and best of luck!
 
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I've visited Chapel Hill multiple times and was in a similar situation in the past as I considered going to UNC as an OOS student. While I ultimately chose to go elsewhere, I did interact a lot of UNC students and the admissions office on multiple occasions and figured I'd just let you know my thoughts. None of this will speak to Baylor, as I didn't even apply, but maybe my experience will give you another case to which to compare your own thoughts.

Cons that ultimately led me to go elsewhere

1) I was turned off by the lack of geographic diversity at UNC. I didn't think it would be a big deal, but on each of my visits it felt as if I was going to be on the outside looking in until I became immersed in North Carolina culture. It's not that I have anything against North Carolina, I just didn't like that my interview day, and subsequent conversations with students, always seemed to revolve around UNC-Duke or UNC-NC State, or various other aspects of life that I really didn't feel connected to.

2) For me, UNC was more expensive (even with the IS tuition after the first year). My thought is that unless there is a huge difference, the cheaper option is often the better option.

3) Students seemed a bit stressed about tests when I chatted with them (more so than at the school I ultimately chose to attend). It's totally subjective, but with limited contact time I suppose every impression counts?

4) This concerns you (as it wasn't really a part of the considerations for me), but being the first to experience a curriculum doesn't seem great. For example, Ohio State rolled out a new curriculum a couple years ago, and even today people are complaining about kinks in the system. What's more, that first year I don't think anybody had anything good to say. Such large policy changes take time to perfect, and considering medical school is already going to be a transition, it would make more sense to me not to be at a place where the administration is also going through the changes.

Pros that almost had me at UNC

1) That school is in a beautiful area. Talk about an environment where you can have a high quality of life - UNC is fantastic.

2) Franklin Street (I think it's called) was awesome, and I feel like UNC in general had a great mix of places including those at which you could go out and party hard and those at which you could have a classier or more chill evening. It's clearly subjective and depends on what you like to do, but of all the places I visited I visited, for medical school or just visiting friends around the country, I really thought UNC provided perhaps the best off-campus areas (clearly it's different than a New York City or something, but I was just fine with that).

3) UNC Public Health is amazing. I don't know how much interest you have in that, but it's really awesome. They have some great researchers, and it would be incredibly easy to thread meaningful public health work experiences into your medical school experience.

4) People were just generally nice. This was probably 3-4 years ago, but the first time I went to UNC, I stopped at a restaurant and told the server that it was my first time in the state and they picked up the tab and said welcome! I just felt like that experience characterized how the people were more generally.

Honestly, if UNC were a little closer to 50-50 IS vs. OOS, I might have ended up there; it was just had the appearance of being a bit to homogenous for my liking. Combined with the financial considerations, it was enough to make me choose to look elsewhere (and if the curriculum factor had been thrown in, that sentiment would just have been reinforced). Hope my limited experience helps in some way to either confirm or negate your own fears, and best of luck!

Thanks for taking the time to post such a thoughtful reply! It really helps to hear from the perspective of someone who was in a similar position.
 
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Hello SDN community, I'm trying to decide between Baylor and UNC and just thought I'd see if anyone has any advice. I'm currently living in Houston so know what the city is like, but I have only visited Chapel Hill and am intrigued by the small-town feel and outdoorsy opportunities. Also, since I'm a Texas resident, Baylor would be less expensive the first year, but after a year I could get in-state tuition in NC, which would make UNC about $25,000 more expensive overall (without knowing anything about financial aid). One more difference - UNC appears to be changing its curriculum so that it will be fairly similar to Baylor's (1.5 year pre-clinicals, etc.) but I will be in the first such class, so will be one of the guinea pigs.

I know that ultimately I need to evaluate the pluses and minuses myself, but I'd love to hear thoughts on the schools or locations. Thanks for any help!

Hi! I live in Chapel Hill and was accepted IS to UNC. I didn't apply to Baylor but have a friend there, and he loves it. I can't really say much more than that though haha.

My biggest worry about UNC is the change to curriculum next year, though they are closely modeling after schools that have already adopted a similar curriculum and will likely face fewer kinks than those schools did upon changing. One of the more difficult things will be that upperclassmen can't help or advise M1s next year very well, but I don't think it will be the disaster faced at other schools. Both Baylor & UNC have wonderful cancer centers, though when looking at where to apply I felt I'd get a more balanced view of different specialties at UNC than many other schools focusing on research. Like other schools, it's super easy to take 3rd year to get an MPH or do research. It's a little lower tech than a Hopkins or Duke (again, IDK about Baylor), but my parents' colleagues (faculty at Duke SOM) recommend going to UNC over Duke for the more well-rounded education.

Basically, UNCSOM seems very flexible, and if you are a driven student, you can get exactly what you want from it. For reference, the other schools I am considering are research-oriented and in much larger cities.

Chapel Hill is a great town to live in as a student. The only drawback being from Houston is that it may feel a little small, but if you have a car, it has just as much to offer as a bigger city. While the athletics rivalries can take some getting used to when OOS, there's nothing like em anywhere else (Duke is only 7 miles away, NC State just in Raleigh - both get VERY heated). It's a school where getting into the greater university spirit is very easy - attending athletics events, going out to bars and clubs, concerts, etc. While the vast majority of UNCSOM students are IS, many of them (including me) didn't do undergrad in state, so you shouldn't feel isolated. If anything, I should be feeling isolated if I go there since I was born at Duke Hospital and went to my first Duke basketball game at 2 days old (go to hell Carolina!), but not too many UNCSOM students went to UNC undergrad so it doesn't really matter.

Everything is accessible by bus, which is good if you live on a bus line, bad if you don't (parking is the worst thing imaginable at UNC - not exaggerating). There are a fair amount of things to do in the area, which is honestly rare outside of the big cities in the South. Basketball and football are awesome, Durham Bulls minor league baseball is fun, as are Carolina Hurricanes ice hockey games. I'm from Durham so I'm partial to downtown Durham's restaurants and bars - everyone in Chapel Hill is terrified of Durham but it's really great (and has free parking). Duke Forest has the Duke Lemur Ctr with the largest lemur population outside of Madagascar, lots of running and biking trials, art museums in both Chapel Hill & Durham. Sometimes politically-minded students will go to Raleigh for state legislature (40 min) or DC for national conferences (4 hours). The mountains are 3 hours west, with skiing, boarding, whitewater rafting, etc. Charlotte is 2.5 hours south with NASCAR, great nightlife. The beach is 3 hours east.
 
I know it sounds strange but if you are using federal loans, I wouldn't worry as much about cost as I would about best fit. It's relatively low interest over so many years that your future as a physician will easily pay for whichever school you choose (unless you are just ridiculously irresponsible with money, but if you were, you wouldn't be concerned in the first place!). Good luck to you!
 
I'm a current MS1 at UNC. Congrats on your acceptances - both are great schools. My disclaimer: I have no experience with Baylor; therefore, I cannot compare Chapel Hill's product to Baylor's.

1. Class Composition. The aspect about UNC that sold me most is its student body. During the interview day, UNC talks about 'picking nice people' and it's true. Our student body is probably the happiest of the schools I interviewed at (of similar caliber/ranking as UNC). People are relaxed, there is tremendous level of camaraderie and collaboration, and there is no self-aggrandizing. It was quite a refreshing discovery, particularly considering the quality of student UNC admits. Coupling this disposition with the P/F system and no class rank, students are very happy. I'm not sure there is any medical school in which its students don't stress over tests, but that is not a prevailing issue here. Ultimately, it was important to me to be in an environment in which I'd be happy, with people I enjoy working with and being around academically and socially. I feel that aspect of medical school is considerably more important than whether class time is 40% or 60% small group learning vs. lecture. I cannot say enough about the collegial environment here.

In terms of geographic diversity, it's important to understand UNC's in-state requirements can be satisfied in one year...even before beginning school. Accordingly, many of the students admitted IS are not born and bred North Carolinians. In fact, during orientation they told us 20% of the class was born in North Carolina. UNC, Duke, Wake Forest, NC State, Davidson, Stanford, Michigan, Columbia, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, UVa, and UCLA are schools represented by multiple students in our class. People attended schools across the country and many worked between undergrad and med school domestically and internationally - diversity is not an issue.

2. New Curriculum. My class is actually pilot testing how the new curriculum will be administered next year. So far, so good. The approach will generally be: the student learns the basic information (e.g., the principles of cardiac physiology; excitation-contraction coupling, receptors, pharm) on their own time through video modules and readings while class time is spent with faculty who reinforce those concepts via sim labs, case studies, and Step 1-based questions.

Most importantly, however, is the willingness of our faculty to turn student feedback into immediate change. This year we've told them issue X, Y, or Z could be improved and it is within a week. I cannot promise anything regarding how smoothly the new curriculum will be unveiled; however, I can guarantee your course directors will be willing and able to resolve any issues. In fact, I'm sure they will implore you to tell them what you think.

3. General Curriculum. These aspects of the curriculum will not change next year. The amount of clinical training and exposure we receive as MS1s and MS2s is absurd. Absurd and awesome. Every other week you have clinical skills sessions with a designated physician and five other classmates. During this time, you learn how to take a history, perform the physical exam, think through cases and create differential diagnoses, etc. Those weeks you're not with your physician tutor, you are performing the patient history and exam on standardized patients. So, every week you are either learning new clinical skills or practicing what you have learned on standardized patients.

Additionally, you are required to be rotate with clinical services (family medicine outpatient or internal medicine inpatient) at least five times/year - and not to shadow but to interview patients and work through problem solving with the physician. You are also required to draw blood at our family medicine outpatient phlebotomy lab. And those are just minimum requirements - you can work as much as you want. We have numerous clinical skills workshops in which you learn to suture, perform lumbar punctures, take arterial blood gases, place IVs, draw blood, intubate, etc. And to top it off, you have a community week each semester with a provider somewhere in NC.

This leads me to an important point. I've lived with two generations of MS4s and knew many people in their classes. UNC is known among residency directors for having one of the best clinical medicine training programs in the country - UNC's students make very good interns and residents. This was brought up at nearly every one of my friends' interviews. Most of the people I know matched to their 1st or 2nd residency program choice. Knowing that UNC puts its students in the position to compete for - and receive - spots at any program in the country was a huge draw for me.

4. Miscellanea.
- Though UNC is #1 for primary care, students are not 'persuaded' to pursue family medicine, OB/GYN, internal medicine, pediatrics, etc. Speciality and subspecialty medicine is a major component of UNC medicine and students interested in these fields can get all the mentorship, shadowing, research, and clinical exposure they want.
- There a ton of opportunities for research here, from public health to basic science.
- The UNC School of Public Health is one of the two best in the world. The MPH track is pursued by about 25-30% of each class. It is very easy to take an additional year to earn your MPH or MBA. Or you can go earn your MPP or anything other degree at another university of your choosing. Or you can take the year to do research in a field that interests you. The flexibility is pretty amazing.
- Chapel Hill/Carrboro is a great place to live, though a car is helpful to frequent Durham (great food, beer, and arts; and not-so-great Duke) and Raleigh (more food, plenty of museums). I've lived in several major US cities and do not feel cramped or limited. As previously mentioned, UNC is located just hours from the mountains and the beach as well as DC and Atlanta.

I'm not sure how helpful this is as I cannot speak to what Baylor offers. Nevertheless, as a student who went to school in California, I have been thrilled with UNC. Amazing faculty and support for students, a really great group of people, and a program that will prepare you to succeed. Let me know if you have any specific questions. Best of luck with your decision.
 
Again, thanks for taking the time to post such thoughtful input! Anyone from Baylor want to chime in? I'd be especially interested in hearing thoughts on Baylor's preclinical curriculum, class composition, and the overall quality of life of students.
 
Again, thanks for taking the time to post such thoughtful input! Anyone from Baylor want to chime in? I'd be especially interested in hearing thoughts on Baylor's preclinical curriculum, class composition, and the overall quality of life of students.

have you already read through the Baylor school specific thread? plenty of current students have posted in there about some of this stuff, so there is already a lot of great information. Or maybe @jturkel can help you
 
Again, thanks for taking the time to post such thoughtful input! Anyone from Baylor want to chime in? I'd be especially interested in hearing thoughts on Baylor's preclinical curriculum, class composition, and the overall quality of life of students.

i'll give you my quick and dirty opinion as a fourth year. i've VISITED chapel hill the city when i was interviewing at duke for residency, so only know the location for UNC. seems pretty, though small for my liking. if you're from houston you may get bored unless you really really like outdoorsy things. good bball program though.

BCM

1) The Pre-Clinical Curriculum
it's a fact. it's the best in the country. ok well here's the deal. we have the 1.5 yr preclinical curriculum. we've been doing it for 20+ years so we have it down. no nonsense, no guinea pig, no headaches. everyone is now modeling their curriculum after ours, or at least trying to. however, not all schools that do our style curriculum allow you to take USMLE Step1 when we do. At the end of 1.5 yrs, you study for a comparable test called EBSE (or CBSE on the NBME website) written by the NBME which you study for like you would for Step1. After a full year of rotations and thousands of practice questions, you can take 4, 6, 8 weeks dedicated time of to study for Step1 for real this time. There is a reason BCM always has the number 1 or 2 Step1 score every year (last yr 244)...it's not a coincidence. Most schools that do the 1.5 yr curriculum make you take your step1 right afterwards before starting clinics. I want to discuss the whole P/F thing. most younger medical students (myself included at one time) will brag about having a P/F curriculum with no internal rank. Let me clarify something for you. P/F is awesome...i'm glad that BCM has P/F for it's preclinical curriculum. The rotations are graded and recorded, but whatever, it's not a big deal. There is NO REAL TRUE P/F curriculum anywhere, however....all schools internally rank their students based on percentages on preclinical exams and clinical rotations....this is done to determine who gets AOA and your overall class standing on your Dean's Letter for your residency application. Then why go to a P/F otherwise? Well my transcript sent to my residency programs shows all my preclinical grade as P/F....they didn't see I got a 80% on pathology or something, just a P. If you have more questions about P/F or ranking, i'd be glad to address them

oh also...because you do 1.5 yrs of preclinical and start your rotations early...you also end early...i finished my last required rotation in mid-october. since then, all i've done is interview for residency, work on research, and plan senior trips. no one else on the interview trail had this (and many they were all jealous)...it's almost a 3.5 yr med school and it's awesome.

2) Clinical Curriculum
i can't speak to the diversity of UNC, but it doesn't get better clinically than what you'll see at BCM. You have the largest VA in the country, top 5 children's hospital, a private hospital in St Lukes, and everyone's favorite: Ben Taub, our county hospital. If you want to do rotations elsewhere, you can also do select ones at Methodist as well as MD Anderson. Having the opportunity to rotate at all different hospitals really allows you to see how medicine is practiced in different settings and allows you to work with various populations and their very different clinical pathologies. It is an incredible experience and I'd go as far to say that very few if any get better clinical exposure as medical students than we do. when I was interviewing for residency, i seemed to have much more clinical experience than most...no one else I spoke with had done multiple paracenteses on their own patients, done lumbar punctures on their own patients, got to do the crazy things I got to do in my ER rotation....the hands on experience here is incredible. The diversity is incredible and unmatched (half of our patients at Ben Taub don't speak english and most have no insurance). oh and everyone teaches you how to do everything and is very nice...no one will force your hand, but will assist you if you'd like it.

3) Everything else
- i don't know what you're going into or what you're interested in, but going to a school with a name DOES matter...despite what everyone wants to tell you or "seems to know." i just finished interviewing for residency for internal medicine at all the top programs and i can say MOST of the people they interview at the top 10-15 programs come from the top 20 or 25 schools. I don't know where UNC is on the ranking...I know it's reputable, but keep that in mind regardless of which school you choose...having a name behind you will help you get interviews for residency...give you a boost
- BCM is cheap...nothing is cheaper in the country...best deal
- there is no medical center like ours. that's a fact
- warm weather >>> cold weather
- Houston is way more fun than most cities, and it not that expensive of a place to live
- all the classes are very chill. honestly, everywhere you go, the student from that program will say how nice everyone is...which may just be true everywhere. i love my class and the 3 classes below me (yes i actually know a good amount of them) so can vouch for how well we pick our applicants too
- also, if you don't choose bcm, i would like to empasize the importance of going to a program that has a county hospital....i didn't realize the importance of working at one when i was selecting my school, but you really learn so much more...both from a medical standpoint, social standpoint, and a life standpoint. you come out of medical school more well-rounded, more knowledgeable, more grounded....go to where there is a county hospital

...hopefully that helped a little. probably seemed a bit all over the place...probly because i just woke up (yay 4th yr!) and i have to still run some valentines day errands haha. if you have any other questions, feel free to message me or join the BCM thread. i'd be happy to answer anything else you'd like to know!
 
i'll give you my quick and dirty opinion as a fourth year. i've VISITED chapel hill the city when i was interviewing at duke for residency, so only know the location for UNC. seems pretty, though small for my liking. if you're from houston you may get bored unless you really really like outdoorsy things. good bball program though.

BCM

1) The Pre-Clinical Curriculum
it's a fact. it's the best in the country. ok well here's the deal. we have the 1.5 yr preclinical curriculum. we've been doing it for 20+ years so we have it down. no nonsense, no guinea pig, no headaches. everyone is now modeling their curriculum after ours, or at least trying to. however, not all schools that do our style curriculum allow you to take USMLE Step1 when we do. At the end of 1.5 yrs, you study for a comparable test called EBSE (or CBSE on the NBME website) written by the NBME which you study for like you would for Step1. After a full year of rotations and thousands of practice questions, you can take 4, 6, 8 weeks dedicated time of to study for Step1 for real this time. There is a reason BCM always has the number 1 or 2 Step1 score every year (last yr 244)...it's not a coincidence. Most schools that do the 1.5 yr curriculum make you take your step1 right afterwards before starting clinics. I want to discuss the whole P/F thing. most younger medical students (myself included at one time) will brag about having a P/F curriculum with no internal rank. Let me clarify something for you. P/F is awesome...i'm glad that BCM has P/F for it's preclinical curriculum. The rotations are graded and recorded, but whatever, it's not a big deal. There is NO REAL TRUE P/F curriculum anywhere, however....all schools internally rank their students based on percentages on preclinical exams and clinical rotations....this is done to determine who gets AOA and your overall class standing on your Dean's Letter for your residency application. Then why go to a P/F otherwise? Well my transcript sent to my residency programs shows all my preclinical grade as P/F....they didn't see I got a 80% on pathology or something, just a P. If you have more questions about P/F or ranking, i'd be glad to address them

oh also...because you do 1.5 yrs of preclinical and start your rotations early...you also end early...i finished my last required rotation in mid-october. since then, all i've done is interview for residency, work on research, and plan senior trips. no one else on the interview trail had this (and many they were all jealous)...it's almost a 3.5 yr med school and it's awesome.

2) Clinical Curriculum
i can't speak to the diversity of UNC, but it doesn't get better clinically than what you'll see at BCM. You have the largest VA in the country, top 5 children's hospital, a private hospital in St Lukes, and everyone's favorite: Ben Taub, our county hospital. If you want to do rotations elsewhere, you can also do select ones at Methodist as well as MD Anderson. Having the opportunity to rotate at all different hospitals really allows you to see how medicine is practiced in different settings and allows you to work with various populations and their very different clinical pathologies. It is an incredible experience and I'd go as far to say that very few if any get better clinical exposure as medical students than we do. when I was interviewing for residency, i seemed to have much more clinical experience than most...no one else I spoke with had done multiple paracenteses on their own patients, done lumbar punctures on their own patients, got to do the crazy things I got to do in my ER rotation....the hands on experience here is incredible. The diversity is incredible and unmatched (half of our patients at Ben Taub don't speak english and most have no insurance). oh and everyone teaches you how to do everything and is very nice...no one will force your hand, but will assist you if you'd like it.

3) Everything else
- i don't know what you're going into or what you're interested in, but going to a school with a name DOES matter...despite what everyone wants to tell you or "seems to know." i just finished interviewing for residency for internal medicine at all the top programs and i can say MOST of the people they interview at the top 10-15 programs come from the top 20 or 25 schools. I don't know where UNC is on the ranking...I know it's reputable, but keep that in mind regardless of which school you choose...having a name behind you will help you get interviews for residency...give you a boost
- BCM is cheap...nothing is cheaper in the country...best deal
- there is no medical center like ours. that's a fact
- warm weather >>> cold weather
- Houston is way more fun than most cities, and it not that expensive of a place to live
- all the classes are very chill. honestly, everywhere you go, the student from that program will say how nice everyone is...which may just be true everywhere. i love my class and the 3 classes below me (yes i actually know a good amount of them) so can vouch for how well we pick our applicants too
- also, if you don't choose bcm, i would like to empasize the importance of going to a program that has a county hospital....i didn't realize the importance of working at one when i was selecting my school, but you really learn so much more...both from a medical standpoint, social standpoint, and a life standpoint. you come out of medical school more well-rounded, more knowledgeable, more grounded....go to where there is a county hospital

...hopefully that helped a little. probably seemed a bit all over the place...probly because i just woke up (yay 4th yr!) and i have to still run some valentines day errands haha. if you have any other questions, feel free to message me or join the BCM thread. i'd be happy to answer anything else you'd like to know!

Thanks so much for your thoughts! You make some great points and I have to say I'm leaning toward Baylor 🙂
 
Ok so I'm still deciding between UNC and Baylor and would be excited to attend either at this point. I still have a couple questions about UNC if there are any third or fourth years who have time to answer. I understand that many of the clinical rotations are in locations outside of Chapel Hill. How much time is spent in away rotations? I know it probably depends on each person but I'd love to just get a ballpark estimate. Are we talking a few weeks or more like several months? Also, at Baylor it seems that by October of the fourth year students generally have a lot of free time to explore specialties or personal interests. Is that true of UNC as well? Thanks for any thoughts!
 
I don't really have anything to contribute (sorry!), I just want to make sure @ChemEngMD reads this, as there are some discussions about UNC.

OP, you have two great choices, good luck!
 
Hello SDN community, I'm trying to decide between Baylor and UNC and just thought I'd see if anyone has any advice. I'm currently living in Houston so know what the city is like, but I have only visited Chapel Hill and am intrigued by the small-town feel and outdoorsy opportunities. Also, since I'm a Texas resident, Baylor would be less expensive the first year, but after a year I could get in-state tuition in NC, which would make UNC about $25,000 more expensive overall (without knowing anything about financial aid). One more difference - UNC appears to be changing its curriculum so that it will be fairly similar to Baylor's (1.5 year pre-clinicals, etc.) but I will be in the first such class, so will be one of the guinea pigs.

I know that ultimately I need to evaluate the pluses and minuses myself, but I'd love to hear thoughts on the schools or locations. Thanks for any help!
No question, Baylor. /end thread.
 
I'm a current MS1 at UNC. Congrats on your acceptances - both are great schools. My disclaimer: I have no experience with Baylor; therefore, I cannot compare Chapel Hill's product to Baylor's.

1. Class Composition. The aspect about UNC that sold me most is its student body. During the interview day, UNC talks about 'picking nice people' and it's true. Our student body is probably the happiest of the schools I interviewed at (of similar caliber/ranking as UNC). People are relaxed, there is tremendous level of camaraderie and collaboration, and there is no self-aggrandizing. It was quite a refreshing discovery, particularly considering the quality of student UNC admits. Coupling this disposition with the P/F system and no class rank, students are very happy. I'm not sure there is any medical school in which its students don't stress over tests, but that is not a prevailing issue here. Ultimately, it was important to me to be in an environment in which I'd be happy, with people I enjoy working with and being around academically and socially. I feel that aspect of medical school is considerably more important than whether class time is 40% or 60% small group learning vs. lecture. I cannot say enough about the collegial environment here.

In terms of geographic diversity, it's important to understand UNC's in-state requirements can be satisfied in one year...even before beginning school. Accordingly, many of the students admitted IS are not born and bred North Carolinians. In fact, during orientation they told us 20% of the class was born in North Carolina. UNC, Duke, Wake Forest, NC State, Davidson, Stanford, Michigan, Columbia, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, UVa, and UCLA are schools represented by multiple students in our class. People attended schools across the country and many worked between undergrad and med school domestically and internationally - diversity is not an issue.

2. New Curriculum. My class is actually pilot testing how the new curriculum will be administered next year. So far, so good. The approach will generally be: the student learns the basic information (e.g., the principles of cardiac physiology; excitation-contraction coupling, receptors, pharm) on their own time through video modules and readings while class time is spent with faculty who reinforce those concepts via sim labs, case studies, and Step 1-based questions.

Most importantly, however, is the willingness of our faculty to turn student feedback into immediate change. This year we've told them issue X, Y, or Z could be improved and it is within a week. I cannot promise anything regarding how smoothly the new curriculum will be unveiled; however, I can guarantee your course directors will be willing and able to resolve any issues. In fact, I'm sure they will implore you to tell them what you think.

3. General Curriculum. These aspects of the curriculum will not change next year. The amount of clinical training and exposure we receive as MS1s and MS2s is absurd. Absurd and awesome. Every other week you have clinical skills sessions with a designated physician and five other classmates. During this time, you learn how to take a history, perform the physical exam, think through cases and create differential diagnoses, etc. Those weeks you're not with your physician tutor, you are performing the patient history and exam on standardized patients. So, every week you are either learning new clinical skills or practicing what you have learned on standardized patients.

Additionally, you are required to be rotate with clinical services (family medicine outpatient or internal medicine inpatient) at least five times/year - and not to shadow but to interview patients and work through problem solving with the physician. You are also required to draw blood at our family medicine outpatient phlebotomy lab. And those are just minimum requirements - you can work as much as you want. We have numerous clinical skills workshops in which you learn to suture, perform lumbar punctures, take arterial blood gases, place IVs, draw blood, intubate, etc. And to top it off, you have a community week each semester with a provider somewhere in NC.

This leads me to an important point. I've lived with two generations of MS4s and knew many people in their classes. UNC is known among residency directors for having one of the best clinical medicine training programs in the country - UNC's students make very good interns and residents. This was brought up at nearly every one of my friends' interviews. Most of the people I know matched to their 1st or 2nd residency program choice. Knowing that UNC puts its students in the position to compete for - and receive - spots at any program in the country was a huge draw for me.

4. Miscellanea.
- Though UNC is #1 for primary care, students are not 'persuaded' to pursue family medicine, OB/GYN, internal medicine, pediatrics, etc. Speciality and subspecialty medicine is a major component of UNC medicine and students interested in these fields can get all the mentorship, shadowing, research, and clinical exposure they want.
- There a ton of opportunities for research here, from public health to basic science.
- The UNC School of Public Health is one of the two best in the world. The MPH track is pursued by about 25-30% of each class. It is very easy to take an additional year to earn your MPH or MBA. Or you can go earn your MPP or anything other degree at another university of your choosing. Or you can take the year to do research in a field that interests you. The flexibility is pretty amazing.
- Chapel Hill/Carrboro is a great place to live, though a car is helpful to frequent Durham (great food, beer, and arts; and not-so-great Duke) and Raleigh (more food, plenty of museums). I've lived in several major US cities and do not feel cramped or limited. As previously mentioned, UNC is located just hours from the mountains and the beach as well as DC and Atlanta.

I'm not sure how helpful this is as I cannot speak to what Baylor offers. Nevertheless, as a student who went to school in California, I have been thrilled with UNC. Amazing faculty and support for students, a really great group of people, and a program that will prepare you to succeed. Let me know if you have any specific questions. Best of luck with your decision.
UNC is not P/F: http://www.med.unc.edu/md/family/grading-testing
No numerical grades go on a student's record. First year is pass/fail, and there are five permanent grades that first and second year students can receive: honors, pass, fail, condition/pass and condition/fail.
 
and then honors, high pass, pass, fail, for the clinical years?

Yeah...I thought that was standard for clinical years across all allopathic schools?
 
Yeah...I thought that was standard for clinical years across all allopathic schools?
There are few schools, i.e. Stanford, that are P/F in the clinical years. That being said the grading system can vary in the clinical years. It can also be just H/P/F.
 
Ok so I'm still deciding between UNC and Baylor and would be excited to attend either at this point. I still have a couple questions about UNC if there are any third or fourth years who have time to answer. I understand that many of the clinical rotations are in locations outside of Chapel Hill. How much time is spent in away rotations? I know it probably depends on each person but I'd love to just get a ballpark estimate. Are we talking a few weeks or more like several months? Also, at Baylor it seems that by October of the fourth year students generally have a lot of free time to explore specialties or personal interests. Is that true of UNC as well? Thanks for any thoughts!

i haven't done rotations since October. You have flexibility to explore specialties or personal interests early. you can take electives as soon as your 2nd semester second yr (when u start rotations) and much more variety once you take your IM and/or surgery rotation. i got to do 4 elective rotations before the end of my 3rd yr. if you really want to learn more after you submit your residency app, feel free to do so, but obviously at that point it's kind of too late. definitely nice to be able to explore these earlier than other schools.....and not be guinea pigs of a new system.....we've been doing the 1.5 yr preclinical for over 20 yrs
 
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