Be cautious of University of Michigan

[umichm3d]

Currently a second year student at university of Michigan and really regretting my choice. After coming here, I found that they took away most of our study space to renovate and didn't replace it with much, have way higher rates of student mistreatment than other schools, and generally don't care about students as individuals- just as data points that make them look better.

Their recruitment department/admissions department is by far the best run student department in the school, so it's really misrepresented by how above and beyond the go during the application process. We aren't treated nearly as well as you would think by how well they treat you as an applicant.

They also seem to have an issue with students who think outside the box. Some of the faculty treat students like crap and will try to penalize students if they stand up to them. Supposedly a student a few years ahead of us was forced to take a year off for a really minor issue as a disciplinary action without being able to explain his side of the situation. I mean, it was really really minor - it wasn't like, being disrespectful to a patient or cheating on a test.

It's more old-school than you'd think and certainly not as touchy feely or interested in students' wellbeing as they say they are. They're in the middle of completely changing their curriculum and I would not go near here with a 10 foot pole if I were a new student, because they have a habit of giving faculty curricular leadership as tokens and rewards on a tenure path rather than giving it to faculty who would do the best job for the students.

Anyway, if you are admitted to Michigan you likely have other options, and as a current student who is really surprised about how bad this place is on the inside compared to the package they sell you, I'd say GO ELSEWHERE!

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[LScribe]

You sound like someone who's desperate to come off the waitlist at UofM

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Currently a second year student at university of Michigan and really regretting my choice. After coming here, I found that they took away most of our study space to renovate and didn't replace it with much, have way higher rates of student mistreatment than other schools, and generally don't care about students as individuals- just as data points that make them look better.

Their recruitment department/admissions department is by far the best run student department in the school, so it's really misrepresented by how above and beyond the go during the application process. We aren't treated nearly as well as you would think by how well they treat you as an applicant.

They also seem to have an issue with students who think outside the box. Some of the faculty treat students like crap and will try to penalize students if they stand up to them. Supposedly a student a few years ahead of us was forced to take a year off for a really minor issue as a disciplinary action without being able to explain his side of the situation. I mean, it was really really minor - it wasn't like, being disrespectful to a patient or cheating on a test.

It's more old-school than you'd think and certainly not as touchy feely or interested in students' wellbeing as they say they are. They're in the middle of completely changing their curriculum and I would not go near here with a 10 foot pole if I were a new student, because they have a habit of giving faculty curricular leadership as tokens and rewards on a tenure path rather than giving it to faculty who would do the best job for the students.

Anyway, if you are admitted to Michigan you likely have other options, and as a current student who is really surprised about how bad this place is on the inside compared to the package they sell you, I'd say GO ELSEWHERE!

Forgive me for being cynical, but you sound very naive. Medical schools are businesses, like any other institution. Nothing more, nothing less. Medical school is not your mother. They are not going to hold your hand and fawn over you as an "individual." The goal of a medical school is to be self-perpetuating, and yes, that means telling you a lot of BS on interview day and making sure the students "make them look good."

 

[cyberchicken001]

Currently a second year student at university of Michigan and really regretting my choice. After coming here, I found that they took away most of our study space to renovate and didn't replace it with much, have way higher rates of student mistreatment than other schools, and generally don't care about students as individuals- just as data points that make them look better.

Their recruitment department/admissions department is by far the best run student department in the school, so it's really misrepresented by how above and beyond the go during the application process. We aren't treated nearly as well as you would think by how well they treat you as an applicant.

They also seem to have an issue with students who think outside the box. Some of the faculty treat students like crap and will try to penalize students if they stand up to them. Supposedly a student a few years ahead of us was forced to take a year off for a really minor issue as a disciplinary action without being able to explain his side of the situation. I mean, it was really really minor - it wasn't like, being disrespectful to a patient or cheating on a test.

It's more old-school than you'd think and certainly not as touchy feely or interested in students' wellbeing as they say they are. They're in the middle of completely changing their curriculum and I would not go near here with a 10 foot pole if I were a new student, because they have a habit of giving faculty curricular leadership as tokens and rewards on a tenure path rather than giving it to faculty who would do the best job for the students.

Anyway, if you are admitted to Michigan you likely have other options, and as a current student who is really surprised about how bad this place is on the inside compared to the package they sell you, I'd say GO ELSEWHERE!

You don't give many concrete examples... Not saying you're trolling (although this is your first post ever), but I think you need to give some specific examples to illustrate your points before expecting a volatile post like this to be taken with any credibility.

 

[metview]

Glad I didn't waste my time applying to um.

 

[medicalhope]

You don't give many concrete examples... Not saying you're trolling (although this is your first post ever), but I think you need to give some specific examples to illustrate your points before expecting a volatile post like this to be taken with any credibility.

Agreed... I don't think I met a single unhappy student there.

 

[bakedbeans18]

Currently a second year student at university of Michigan and really regretting my choice. After coming here, I found that they took away most of our study space to renovate and didn't replace it with much, have way higher rates of student mistreatment than other schools, and generally don't care about students as individuals- just as data points that make them look better.

Their recruitment department/admissions department is by far the best run student department in the school, so it's really misrepresented by how above and beyond the go during the application process. We aren't treated nearly as well as you would think by how well they treat you as an applicant.

They also seem to have an issue with students who think outside the box. Some of the faculty treat students like crap and will try to penalize students if they stand up to them. Supposedly a student a few years ahead of us was forced to take a year off for a really minor issue as a disciplinary action without being able to explain his side of the situation. I mean, it was really really minor - it wasn't like, being disrespectful to a patient or cheating on a test.

It's more old-school than you'd think and certainly not as touchy feely or interested in students' wellbeing as they say they are. They're in the middle of completely changing their curriculum and I would not go near here with a 10 foot pole if I were a new student, because they have a habit of giving faculty curricular leadership as tokens and rewards on a tenure path rather than giving it to faculty who would do the best job for the students.

Anyway, if you are admitted to Michigan you likely have other options, and as a current student who is really surprised about how bad this place is on the inside compared to the package they sell you, I'd say GO ELSEWHERE!

If you think your diatribe is sufficient to steer any accepted student away from the #12 ranked MD program in the U.S., you're freaking nuts man.

 

[Shinobiz11]

Everyone believe this guy so I have less competition

 

[bakedbeans18]

Everyone believe this guy so I have less competition

You must be real confident with your app there buddy lol

 

[Shinobiz11]

You must be real confident with your app there buddy lol

Everything except the MCAT

 

[HailHailToMi]

Currently an M1. Let's go through this point by point.

Currently a second year student at university of Michigan and really regretting my choice. After coming here, I found that they took away most of our study space to renovate and didn't replace it with much

Yeah, no ****, they're renovating the library and retrofitting it to be awesome. There are a bunch of classrooms on in MSI/II that we all use to study. The old library had zero natural light and there are 26 other libraries on campus which are quieter, more beautiful, and basically just awesome. They also opened the 7th and 8th floor of Old Mott for us to use 24/7 as replacement study spaces. There was also only like one M2 who showed up to the town hall meeting that we had with the associate deans to discuss our concerns, which they were pretty responsive too. We also set up a website where we could directly and anonymously give our concerns to the administration. We M1s got a lot of what we wanted. I didn't see any M2s post there.

have way higher rates of student mistreatment than other schools

ummm okay. I certainly don't feel mistreated.

and generally don't care about students as individuals- just as data points that make them look better.

Their recruitment department/admissions department is by far the best run student department in the school, so it's really misrepresented by how above and beyond the go during the application process. We aren't treated nearly as well as you would think by how well they treat you as an applicant.

How have you been mistreated? Can you be specific? I can't think of a single instance where they've been unfair with me. They have been extremely accommodating with me forgetting to do things, though. They let me go two months without filling out any sequence evals before I got an email from the dean's office saying I really needed to do it so I didn't get a professionalism note on my record. That's a pretty decent amount of slack.

They also seem to have an issue with students who think outside the box. Some of the faculty treat students like crap and will try to penalize students if they stand up to them.

Are you talking about clinical or preclinical? I haven't heard of anything in preclinical, period. If you're talking about the infamous coffee incident, the student was allowed to re-take his surgery shelf with no penalty and ended up matching into a surgical specialty, I believe.

Supposedly a student a few years ahead of us was forced to take a year off for a really minor issue as a disciplinary action without being able to explain his side of the situation. I mean, it was really really minor - it wasn't like, being disrespectful to a patient or cheating on a test.

"Supposedly." Except I haven't heard anything about it. But I'll ask around.

It's more old-school than you'd think and certainly not as touchy feely or interested in students' wellbeing as they say they are.

I don't even know how to respond to this.

They're in the middle of completely changing their curriculum and I would not go near here with a 10 foot pole if I were a new student, because they have a habit of giving faculty curricular leadership as tokens and rewards on a tenure path rather than giving it to faculty who would do the best job for the students.

I've seen the proposed changes to the curriculum. It's 95% the same. It's not a massive overhaul by any means. And if you'll notice, curricular leadership tends to be in highly qualified hands. I'm in ID right now, the sequence directors are Carol Kauffman (chair of the ID department) and Michael Imperiale (associate chair of immunology). Both are amazing professors ... and clearly are no spring chickens.

Anyway, if you are admitted to Michigan you likely have other options, and as a current student who is really surprised about how bad this place is on the inside compared to the package they sell you, I'd say GO ELSEWHERE!

I'm not an M2, so I can't speak to the next year, but I've never interacted with someone who has this position. Although, seeing as this is the same week that you took your step 1, I get the feeling that you're afraid you messed up the exam and you're trying to take it out on the school. It's not working.

 

[umichm3d]

Hey All,

It's ok if you are skeptical- just don't say I didn't warn you.
I did finish my step1 last week, and I have to say, it was a little frustrating that the curriculum is so mismatched with the exam, which means we just have to up the ante with studying. But step 1 was fine (although let's think about that- if step 1 WASN'T fine, wouldn't it indicate a problem with how UM preps its students?), it was actually how they treated a friend of mine who had a death in the family a few weeks ago that was really upsetting. I don't feel at liberty to share her story for her, but it was messed up how they treated her like she was lying when she was already dealing with grieving. I've seen these little patterns over and over again and heard horror stories with different students. I think all in all, if you do whatever they say without quesiton and never have any problems, it's an ok place. If you are an independent thinker, it might not be a good place for you. There's a lot of BS.

Anyway, just saying, I think it's more hype than it is substance. Their admit department is definitely misrepresenting the school. I guess my main point is not to get blown away just by the admit commitee's recruiting stuff- other schools you have gotten into may not have so much flash for second look or whatever, but think hard before just defaulting to michigan. To the person who says med school is not your mom- don't know if you are a med student yet, but most medical schools aren't businesses, they largely function within nonprofit universities. And if you are a med student, you must be a genius if you haven't found the experience pretty challenging.

Just letting those thinking about it know that while the only students you meet will act "happy", the other ones choose not to see the prospective students. Nobody who shows up to a prospective student panel on interview day is gonna say they hate the school, and if theyd id they'd probably get suspended or something. I have friends at lots of other medical schools and I wish I would have chosen differently is all. My purpose isn't to convince anyone of anything, just to let prospectives know some students are really unhappy here and think the school is misrepresenting itself bigtime.

 

[bakedbeans18]

Hey All,

It's ok if you are skeptical- just don't say I didn't warn you.
I did finish my step1 last week, and I have to say, it was a little frustrating that the curriculum is so mismatched with the exam, which means we just have to up the ante with studying. But step 1 was fine (although let's think about that- if step 1 WASN'T fine, wouldn't it indicate a problem with how UM preps its students?), it was actually how they treated a friend of mine who had a death in the family a few weeks ago that was really upsetting. I don't feel at liberty to share her story for her, but it was messed up how they treated her like she was lying when she was already dealing with grieving. I've seen these little patterns over and over again and heard horror stories with different students. I think all in all, if you do whatever they say without quesiton and never have any problems, it's an ok place. If you are an independent thinker, it might not be a good place for you. There's a lot of BS.

Anyway, just saying, I think it's more hype than it is substance. Their admit department is definitely misrepresenting the school. I guess my main point is not to get blown away just by the admit commitee's recruiting stuff- other schools you have gotten into may not have so much flash for second look or whatever, but think hard before just defaulting to michigan. To the person who says med school is not your mom- don't know if you are a med student yet, but most medical schools aren't businesses, they largely function within nonprofit universities. And if you are a med student, you must be a genius if you haven't found the experience pretty challenging.

Just letting those thinking about it know that while the only students you meet will act "happy", the other ones choose not to see the prospective students. Nobody who shows up to a prospective student panel on interview day is gonna say they hate the school, and if theyd id they'd probably get suspended or something. I have friends at lots of other medical schools and I wish I would have chosen differently is all. My purpose isn't to convince anyone of anything, just to let prospectives know some students are really unhappy here and think the school is misrepresenting itself bigtime.

There are very few medical schools which model their curriculum on a standardized exam. There is a reason why things like FA, Pathoma, and UWorld exist. This is the reason.

 

[Shinobiz11]

Been


There are very few medical schools which model their curriculum on a standardized exam. There is a reason why things like FA, Pathoma, and UWorld exist. This is the reason.

Been?

Also this guy sounds like he was expecting med school to do everything for him and he wouldn't have to do list a finger.

Did your undergrad classes appropriately prepare for the MCAT?

 

[bakedbeans18]

Been?

Also this guy sounds like he was expecting med school to do everything for him and he wouldn't have to do list a finger.

Did your undergrad classes appropriately prepare for the MCAT?

Oh, I'm not sure how that got in there haha. Ignore 'been', but still pay attention to 'beans' (see what I did there? )

 

[Shinobiz11]

Oh, I'm not sure how that got in there haha. Ignore 'been', but still pay attention to 'beans' (see what I did there? )

Trying not to derail this thread but I have no clue what you're talking about

 

[bakedbeans18]

Trying not to derail this thread but I have no clue what you're talking about

My username is bakedbeans18

 

[Mad Jack]

You really want that waitlist to get movin', don't you OP?

 

[Serous Demilune]

You really want that waitlist to get movin', don't you OP?
View attachment 180878

wrong school

 

[Espadaleader]

You should listen to to the OP. Every school has its issues more or less. After you interview and go on second looks you start to realize this.

Disclaimer: I am not saying that the OP is right. BUT, I am saying that he could be right. Some schools don't work for everyone. Even "top schools". Just do your best to go to a school that is a good fit. For some UMich is heaven. For some it may not be. Just like every school.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Let's be respectful of everyone's opinions even if they are controversial. If you think someone is misrepresenting themselves or trolling, the appropriate behavior is to NOT reply and instead report.

FWIW as a Michigan resident I have heard and experienced various complaints about how the university and medical school treat in state students, but I can't specifically speak to the OPs concerns as I am not a student there.

 

[TheNeuroman]

OP, you're at one of the greatest institutions in the world...how dare you come onto the forum and bash the school you're supposed to be representing you ungrateful entitled child. UofM owes you nothing. A real leader will see the problem and try to address it instead of complain about it on SDN

 

[trino]

OP, you're at one of the greatest institutions in the world...how dare you come onto the forum and bash the school you're supposed to be representing you ungrateful entitled child. UofM owes you nothing. A real leader will see the problem and try to address it instead of complain about it on SDN

All institutions have their problems. Being great does not make one immune to them. Actually, UofM does owe OP something. It owes him education, because that is what he is paying for. However, UofM does not owe it to OP to make him happy or successful (even though that is in their best interest). OP may have come on here to rant, I don't know. But taking his words at face value, he is just saying to be careful about the hype that many of us saw on interview day. I don't know if you've interviewed there, but many of my friends and I left thinking UofM was the greatest place in the world (besides the cold weather). A HUGE selling point for UofM is making sure the atmosphere is something special when you visit. Now I'm not saying OP is right or wrong about his comments, but I do appreciate a fair warning and to use discretion. That's all he is asking after all

 

[TheNeuroman]

All institutions have their problems. Being great does not make one immune to them. Actually, UofM does owe OP something. It owes him education, because that is what he is paying for. However, UofM does not owe it to OP to make him happy or successful (even though that is in their best interest). OP may have come on here to rant, I don't know. But taking his words at face value, he is just saying to be careful about the hype that many of us saw on interview day. I don't know if you've interviewed there, but many of my friends and I left thinking UofM was the greatest place in the world (besides the cold weather). A HUGE selling point for UofM is making sure the atmosphere is something special when you visit. Now I'm not saying OP is right or wrong about his comments, but I do appreciate a fair warning and to use discretion. That's all he is asking after all

I have not interviewed there, but you make good points and I'm sorry if my comment was out of line.

 

[Espadaleader]

When you're 300k in debt the school owes you everything. You talk like a premed.

 

[trino]

When you're 300k in debt the school owes you everything. You talk like a premed.

Hahaha, it feels nice to have (almost) graduated from that term

But @TheNeuroman I hope you get the chance to interview there. One of my favorite schools. Just take everything with a grain of salt. That includes inteview days and posts like this. Gather all the information you can

 

[TheNeuroman]

.

 

[Great White Buffalo]

Whoa, the institution is doing a $50M+ renovation to the library, and there are complaints?? Complain about the lack of parking, but upgrading the facilities that were 40+ years old shouldn't be one of them. Maybe the brutal winter got to him/her. Spring is here, and Ann Arbor is glorious right now. GO BLUE!!

 

[DermViser]

Currently a second year student at university of Michigan and really regretting my choice. After coming here, I found that they took away most of our study space to renovate and didn't replace it with much, have way higher rates of student mistreatment than other schools, and generally don't care about students as individuals- just as data points that make them look better.

Their recruitment department/admissions department is by far the best run student department in the school, so it's really misrepresented by how above and beyond the go during the application process. We aren't treated nearly as well as you would think by how well they treat you as an applicant.

They also seem to have an issue with students who think outside the box. Some of the faculty treat students like crap and will try to penalize students if they stand up to them. Supposedly a student a few years ahead of us was forced to take a year off for a really minor issue as a disciplinary action without being able to explain his side of the situation. I mean, it was really really minor - it wasn't like, being disrespectful to a patient or cheating on a test.

It's more old-school than you'd think and certainly not as touchy feely or interested in students' wellbeing as they say they are. They're in the middle of completely changing their curriculum and I would not go near here with a 10 foot pole if I were a new student, because they have a habit of giving faculty curricular leadership as tokens and rewards on a tenure path rather than giving it to faculty who would do the best job for the students.

Anyway, if you are admitted to Michigan you likely have other options, and as a current student who is really surprised about how bad this place is on the inside compared to the package they sell you, I'd say GO ELSEWHERE!

And you think other medical schools will somehow be different because? All medical schools pick students who they think will make them look good. Students choose Michigan's med school based on what it can do for them, so hence don't be surprised that Michigan does the same when it comes to choosing med students.

(I'm assuming for the sake of argument here that you're not a gunner premed trying to discourage your competition from enrolling so you can get off the waitlist)

 

[DermViser]

Currently an M1. Let's go through this point by point.

Yeah, no ****, they're renovating the library and retrofitting it to be awesome. There are a bunch of classrooms on in MSI/II that we all use to study. The old library had zero natural light and there are 26 other libraries on campus which are quieter, more beautiful, and basically just awesome. They also opened the 7th and 8th floor of Old Mott for us to use 24/7 as replacement study spaces. There was also only like one M2 who showed up to the town hall meeting that we had with the associate deans to discuss our concerns, which they were pretty responsive too. We also set up a website where we could directly and anonymously give our concerns to the administration. We M1s got a lot of what we wanted. I didn't see any M2s post there.

ummm okay. I certainly don't feel mistreated.

How have you been mistreated? Can you be specific? I can't think of a single instance where they've been unfair with me. They have been extremely accommodating with me forgetting to do things, though. They let me go two months without filling out any sequence evals before I got an email from the dean's office saying I really needed to do it so I didn't get a professionalism note on my record. That's a pretty decent amount of slack.

Are you talking about clinical or preclinical? I haven't heard of anything in preclinical, period. If you're talking about the infamous coffee incident, the student was allowed to re-take his surgery shelf with no penalty and ended up matching into a surgical specialty, I believe.

"Supposedly." Except I haven't heard anything about it. But I'll ask around.

I don't even know how to respond to this.

I've seen the proposed changes to the curriculum. It's 95% the same. It's not a massive overhaul by any means. And if you'll notice, curricular leadership tends to be in highly qualified hands. I'm in ID right now, the sequence directors are Carol Kauffman (chair of the ID department) and Michael Imperiale (associate chair of immunology). Both are amazing professors ... and clearly are no spring chickens.

I'm not an M2, so I can't speak to the next year, but I've never interacted with someone who has this position. Although, seeing as this is the same week that you took your step 1, I get the feeling that you're afraid you messed up the exam and you're trying to take it out on the school. It's not working.

I'm interested in what this "coffee incident" is for context. I'm guessing, spilled coffee all over his NBME exam?

 

[DermViser]

Hey All,

It's ok if you are skeptical- just don't say I didn't warn you.
I did finish my step1 last week, and I have to say, it was a little frustrating that the curriculum is so mismatched with the exam, which means we just have to up the ante with studying. But step 1 was fine (although let's think about that- if step 1 WASN'T fine, wouldn't it indicate a problem with how UM preps its students?), it was actually how they treated a friend of mine who had a death in the family a few weeks ago that was really upsetting. I don't feel at liberty to share her story for her, but it was messed up how they treated her like she was lying when she was already dealing with grieving. I've seen these little patterns over and over again and heard horror stories with different students. I think all in all, if you do whatever they say without quesiton and never have any problems, it's an ok place. If you are an independent thinker, it might not be a good place for you. There's a lot of BS.

Anyway, just saying, I think it's more hype than it is substance. Their admit department is definitely misrepresenting the school. I guess my main point is not to get blown away just by the admit commitee's recruiting stuff- other schools you have gotten into may not have so much flash for second look or whatever, but think hard before just defaulting to michigan. To the person who says med school is not your mom- don't know if you are a med student yet, but most medical schools aren't businesses, they largely function within nonprofit universities. And if you are a med student, you must be a genius if you haven't found the experience pretty challenging.

Just letting those thinking about it know that while the only students you meet will act "happy", the other ones choose not to see the prospective students. Nobody who shows up to a prospective student panel on interview day is gonna say they hate the school, and if theyd id they'd probably get suspended or something. I have friends at lots of other medical schools and I wish I would have chosen differently is all. My purpose isn't to convince anyone of anything, just to let prospectives know some students are really unhappy here and think the school is misrepresenting itself bigtime.

Now we're getting to meat of the story.

Several points

• no American school will advertise their MS-1/MS-2 curriculum as "teaching to the test". It's what Carribean schools do.That being said, Michigan's first 2 years are "true" P/F if I'm not mistaken. Why did you not take advantage of this, when it came to studying for the Step?
• as far as your friend that had a death in the family - how does this demonstrate Michigan not liking "independent thinkers"?
• actually yes most med schools are businesses. "Non-profit" just means they don't pay taxes and it goes back to the school for using the budget. Hospitals are the same way as are non-profit universities. Make no mistake - if you don't pay or are late with paying your tuition bill they will go after you.

 

[DermViser]

Let's be respectful of everyone's opinions even if they are controversial. If you think someone is misrepresenting themselves or trolling, the appropriate behavior is to NOT reply and instead report.

FWIW as a Michigan resident I have heard and experienced various complaints about how the university and medical school treat in state students, but I can't specifically speak to the OPs concerns as I am not a student there.

Are out-of-state students treated differently?

 

[mmmcdowe]

Are out-of-state students treated differently?

My experience with UMich is that they very much want out of staters. Nothing wrong with that though they are butting heads with the state of michigan about it.

 

[DermViser]

My experience with UMich is that they very much want out of staters. Nothing wrong with that though they are butting heads with the state of michigan about it.

Oh, no, I understand that they want out-of-staters (so they can charge them out-of-state tuition and get even more money), and the need to extricate themselves from the state that pays less and less as a percentage of their budget. You had said there were various complains about how the university and medical school treat in-state medical students, so I was wondering what real examples of this were.

 

[nephron19]

Are out-of-state students treated differently?

As an out-of-state student who is matriculating at Michigan, I don't think that is the case. I didn't get any special material for being out of state, if anything, they can be more selective with OOS. Honestly, I'm not going to try and bash what the OP said, but I think Michigan is a great fit for some, and a horrible fit for others. It seems like they attract students that were really involved outside of the classroom in ways that may not be expected/traditional (years of research ect), and value people that were leaders (and the best....lol)/ self-starters in what they chose to do undergrad. From what I saw on Second Look and my Interview Day, everyone was really happy, and there are definitely schools of Michigan's caliber that I interviewed at where the students couldn't slap on a happy face. The students that I met were very social, and my potential classmates I met on second look are people that I plan to keep in touch with even if they decide not to come to school at Michigan. For those looking at this that may be choosing where to go/deciding where to apply, I think this was the most important thing that has drawn me to choose here. When it comes to talking to faculty, I have had nothing but positive experiences thus far. I emailed a professor with pretty high-impact research in a public health field. He replied within a day about not currently being at the University, but would be happy to meet with me if I decided to come there and once he returned. My faculty interviewer also emailed me shortly after being accepted congratulating me and encouraging me to reach out if I had any questions.

 

[khrisskhoras]

Hey All,

It's ok if you are skeptical- just don't say I didn't warn you.
I did finish my step1 last week, and I have to say, it was a little frustrating that the curriculum is so mismatched with the exam, which means we just have to up the ante with studying. But step 1 was fine (although let's think about that- if step 1 WASN'T fine, wouldn't it indicate a problem with how UM preps its students?), it was actually how they treated a friend of mine who had a death in the family a few weeks ago that was really upsetting. I don't feel at liberty to share her story for her, but it was messed up how they treated her like she was lying when she was already dealing with grieving. I've seen these little patterns over and over again and heard horror stories with different students. I think all in all, if you do whatever they say without quesiton and never have any problems, it's an ok place. If you are an independent thinker, it might not be a good place for you. There's a lot of BS.

Anyway, just saying, I think it's more hype than it is substance. Their admit department is definitely misrepresenting the school. I guess my main point is not to get blown away just by the admit commitee's recruiting stuff- other schools you have gotten into may not have so much flash for second look or whatever, but think hard before just defaulting to michigan. To the person who says med school is not your mom- don't know if you are a med student yet, but most medical schools aren't businesses, they largely function within nonprofit universities. And if you are a med student, you must be a genius if you haven't found the experience pretty challenging.

Just letting those thinking about it know that while the only students you meet will act "happy", the other ones choose not to see the prospective students. Nobody who shows up to a prospective student panel on interview day is gonna say they hate the school, and if theyd id they'd probably get suspended or something. I have friends at lots of other medical schools and I wish I would have chosen differently is all. My purpose isn't to convince anyone of anything, just to let prospectives know some students are really unhappy here and think the school is misrepresenting itself bigtime.

TR_LL

Clue: People who anonymously post nonsense online

May I buy a vowel?

 

[mmmcdowe]

Oh, no, I understand that they want out-of-staters (so they can charge them out-of-state tuition and get even more money), and the need to extricate themselves from the state that pays less and less as a percentage of their budget. You had said there were various complains about how the university and medical school treat in-state medical students, so I was wondering what real examples of this were.

It has been my experience both when applying to undergrad and medical school that certain members of the administration (non-physician/educator) have trouble keeping a certain level of disdain in check with regards to in-staters during the admission process. I got a very strong feeling on both occasions that there was a sense that we were unworthy and only being considered because the state made them. During my medical school interview day (in state students only), there was a very negative vibe to the director's opening speech (not the Dean, he was amazing as was every physician/educator) admonishing us to sit up straight, button our coats, and turn off our phones because this was an interview day and we needed to be more professional. When some poor girls phone went off he shot her quite the death glare. At first I thought it was just me but the other students I was with also reported similarly being turned off by his attitude. I've heard he is a really nice guy based on the other interview day students but that was my experience and impression.

 

[DermViser]

It has been my experience both when applying to undergrad and medical school that certain members of the administration (non-physician/educator) have trouble keeping a certain level of disdain in check with regards to in-staters during the admission process. I got a very strong feeling on both occasions that there was a sense that we were unworthy and only being considered because the state made them. During my medical school interview day (in state students only), there was a very negative vibe to the director's opening speech (not the Dean, he was amazing as was every physician/educator) admonishing us to sit up straight, button our coats, and turn off our phones because this was an interview day and we needed to be more professional. When some poor girls phone went off he shot her quite the death glare. At first I thought it was just me but the other students I was with also reported similarly being turned off by his attitude. I've heard he is a really nice guy based on the other interview day students but that was my experience and impression.

Got it. How unfortunate, but not surprising. I wonder if this pervades once one is an accepted and is a matriculating student. I doubt then they have the time to distinguish who is out-of-state and who is in-state in daily interactions. That being said, I wouldn't blame interviewees at all for judging accepting or rejecting a school based on that callous behavior on interview day.

 

[alex081291]

Currently an M1. Let's go through this point by point.


If you're talking about the infamous coffee incident, the student was allowed to re-take his surgery shelf with no penalty and ended up matching into a surgical specialty, I believe.

Can you tell me more about this coffee incident? Now I'm just curious

 

[TheRobin]

Those who stay will be champions.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Those who stay will be champions.

Hasn't been the case as of late...OSU hasn't looked too bad though

 

[mmmcdowe]

Got it. How unfortunate, but not surprising. I wonder if this pervades once one is an accepted and is a matriculating student. I doubt then they have the time to distinguish who is out-of-state and who is in-state in daily interactions. That being said, I wouldn't blame interviewees at all for judging accepting or rejecting a school based on that callous behavior on interview day.

You get one day to make an impression, I'm sure I could have gone on another day and loved it. I doubt that it affects day to day because, again, it wasn't professors/physicians just some administrators that would play little to no role in your medical school day to day life.

 

[umms2017]

Can you tell me more about this coffee incident? Now I'm just curious

Rumor has it ~15 years ago, an M3 walked into his surgery rotation oral exam carrying a cup of coffee, and the attending found it too casual/unprofessional, which started the exam on the wrong foot. When the student ended up failing the oral exam (as a consequence of his actions) and, thus, the surgery clerkship, the whole M3 class vouched for their classmate to have a 2nd chance, which he was granted, and then the student ended up matching successfully into a surgical field, no problem. Nothing that extreme has happened since, but it's a notable aspect of UMMS folklore.

 

[umms2017]

Oh, no, I understand that they want out-of-staters (so they can charge them out-of-state tuition and get even more money), and the need to extricate themselves from the state that pays less and less as a percentage of their budget. You had said there were various complains about how the university and medical school treat in-state medical students, so I was wondering what real examples of this were.

I'm going to attempt to hit on a few points brought up by some of the above posts:

1) Regarding the motivation for recruiting OOS students -- UMMS wants to assemble the best class it can, and pulling from 50 states will statistically give them a lot more "top students" to recruit than if only Michigan residents were considered. There are almost as many seats in Michigan medical schools as there are applicants from the state of Michigan (with the newly opened & expanding schools), so many Michigan residents will find a home to pursue their medical degree.

The financial argument supporting OOS-recruitment is not entirely correct; look at this sample calculation:
Tuition differential OOS vs. IS for 4 years = $15,000 x4 = $60,000 -- multiply by half the class = 85 students --> ~$5M extra from having half a class of OOS'ers.
Compared to the huge donations received by UM and UMMS recently, including those in the $4B "Victors for Michigan" campaign, I'd say we're in a pretty good financial state. Very little funding for the med school (if any at this point) comes from the state, so this is another reason why UMMS has the flexibility to interview and recruit many OOS'ers.

2) Despite trying to bring some fantastic OOS'ers to Michigan, I'd say all of the in-state students are just as phenomenal and bright. Furthermore, both sides receive recruitment scholarships, and will ascend to eventually becoming future leaders in healthcare, with the support of our institution.

3) The only real difference in how you might fare as an IS vs. an OOS student at UMMS might be having more stories about your trips to Traverse City and Mackinac Island to use as conversation starters with the attendings you round with on the wards during your M3 year...

4) As far as the comments above about interview day & being an IS student, there definitely isn't any sort of stigma about being from Michigan from my experience thus far. They only have 600 interview slots, and they're going to invite people they truly want to be med students here. They do take pride in making sure to interview at least one student from every major university in the state every year to get a good spread/diversity (i.e. UM, MSU, GVSU, NMU, WMU, WSU, UM-D), but otherwise there are no "quotas" to fulfill or anything, just target numbers (as shown on the tracker).

 

[umms2017]

Got it. How unfortunate, but not surprising. I wonder if this pervades once one is an accepted and is a matriculating student. I doubt then they have the time to distinguish who is out-of-state and who is in-state in daily interactions. That being said, I wouldn't blame interviewees at all for judging accepting or rejecting a school based on that callous behavior on interview day.

Sounds like an isolated interview-day event. From what I recall while applying, mmmcdowe is a few years out from the med school interview trail -- I'm sure the interview days have continued to improve the past couple years. From both going through it myself last year and then helping with this cycle's interview days as an Admissions Ambassador, I have seen overall positive post-interview feedback and nothing glaringly out of line (we have access to the anonymous post-interview survey data, which Admissions uses to continually improve).

On the flip side, there are some institutions which don't put on a show at all for the interview day, but people still attend based on reputation or impression at revisit weekend. They say interview day is about you deciding if the school is right for you based on your overall impression, but I feel like this is better assessed during Second Look Weekends when the stakes are low, the fun/celebration is high, and you get to spend more time at the school and more time with students. Judge a school more strongly based on revisit weekend, not interview day. Unless you interview in January and it's -10 degrees. Then you are free to judge. Winter indeed exists here.