Class of 2023... how you doin?!

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

Finals start in 10 days (we don't have one Monday of finals week)

In 16 days, I'm leaving on a camping trip with my friends to Yellowstone for the first time and I am so. Excited.

In 38 days I'll be moving into my own apartment

The Dr that I worked for last summer and over winter break has been in touch w/ me about working again so I have a job to go home to after I move in

Also when I get back, I'm flying with my friends from back home to Las Vegas

For new years there is a lot of heavy talk about taking a group trip to Costa Rica

Also to top off the rest of the year, I got the spay block I wanted and all of the electives I wanted. 2021 is a great year.

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[EquusObsessed]

Finals start in 10 days (we don't have one Monday of finals week)

In 16 days, I'm leaving on a camping trip with my friends to Yellowstone for the first time and I am so. Excited.

In 38 days I'll be moving into my own apartment

The Dr that I worked for last summer and over winter break has been in touch w/ me about working again so I have a job to go home to after I move in

Also when I get back, I'm flying with my friends from back home to Las Vegas

For new years there is a lot of heavy talk about taking a group trip to Costa Rica

Also to top off the rest of the year, I got the spay block I wanted and all of the electives I wanted. 2021 is a great year.

That’s super exciting! Glad to see some good news on here

 

[PetVet23]

Finals start in 10 days (we don't have one Monday of finals week)

In 16 days, I'm leaving on a camping trip with my friends to Yellowstone for the first time and I am so. Excited.

In 38 days I'll be moving into my own apartment

The Dr that I worked for last summer and over winter break has been in touch w/ me about working again so I have a job to go home to after I move in

Also when I get back, I'm flying with my friends from back home to Las Vegas

For new years there is a lot of heavy talk about taking a group trip to Costa Rica

Also to top off the rest of the year, I got the spay block I wanted and all of the electives I wanted. 2021 is a great year.

Thank you for sharing some happy vibes!! I feel warm and fuzzy now

 

[PetVet23]

Hard to believe it's almost time for classes to start again! What does everyone's semester plan look like/how are you feeling??

I'm still on my last clinical rotation right now, but I'll get a week off and start classes on August 30th. They just updated our policy last week that everyone has to wear a mask regardless of vaccination status (also they're requiring us to be vaccinated or we have to be tested weekly), but so far they aren't reinstating requirements for distancing or putting occupancy limits on rooms. Keeping my fingers crossed we can make it through the semester without having to go back online 🤞

 

[EquusObsessed]

Hard to believe it's almost time for classes to start again! What does everyone's semester plan look like/how are you feeling??

I'm still on my last clinical rotation right now, but I'll get a week off and start classes on August 30th. They just updated our policy last week that everyone has to wear a mask regardless of vaccination status (also they're requiring us to be vaccinated or we have to be tested weekly), but so far they aren't reinstating requirements for distancing or putting occupancy limits on rooms. Keeping my fingers crossed we can make it through the semester without having to go back online 🤞

You guys start clinics summer before 3rd year? That’s interesting. We start clinics in January (so one last semester of didactic starts next week). So far sounds like we’re in person with masks, with the possibility of going back to online if things decline (the school’s county had a HUGE jump in cases recently so… we’ll see). I’m torn on how to feel about in person class… I am glad to learn better in person but also really liked not waking up super early to leave the house and get to school by 8 🤣

 

[PetVet23]

You guys start clinics summer before 3rd year? That’s interesting. We start clinics in January (so one last semester of didactic starts next week). So far sounds like we’re in person with masks, with the possibility of going back to online if things decline (the school’s county had a HUGE jump in cases recently so… we’ll see). I’m torn on how to feel about in person class… I am glad to learn better in person but also really liked not waking up super early to leave the house and get to school by 8 🤣

It's always so interesting to hear how different schools handle clinics! When they changed the curriculum a few years ago they split our rotations into two different sessions. We have our first round in the summer between 2nd and 3rd year, next summer is free, and 4th year will start with the fall semester.

 

[cbucks]

Our classes are similar in that they're in-person and everyone has to wear a mask, but they're also being live-streamed so there's a 90% chance I just keep watching classes from home. I just like being able to make food/move around in the middle of class with no one seeing me
We got our surgery schedule recently and my spay isn't until February, I'm happy that I'll (theoretically) have plenty of time to prepare but also wish it was earlier just so I could do a surgery! Thinking about it makes me *~nervous~*

 

[Dinashadow]

Hard to believe it's almost time for classes to start again! What does everyone's semester plan look like/how are you feeling??

I'm still on my last clinical rotation right now, but I'll get a week off and start classes on August 30th. They just updated our policy last week that everyone has to wear a mask regardless of vaccination status (also they're requiring us to be vaccinated or we have to be tested weekly), but so far they aren't reinstating requirements for distancing or putting occupancy limits on rooms. Keeping my fingers crossed we can make it through the semester without having to go back online 🤞

I'm still in shock that third year is starting. I still feel like a first year sometimes. Also can't believe we've gone through vet school at such a crazy time. It's been a wild ride

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

I can't wait for classes to start. We don't have any clinics until next Fall unfortunately, but I'm excited for classes that are more applicable to medicine. I also just can't wait to see my friends again

 

[Vet2022-20224]

Our clinics do not start until next summer, but all my surgeries are this fall and should end by thanksgiving. Im so NERVOUS! Definitely do not feel ready or like a third year. Time truly does fly!

 

[PetVet23]

Our clinics do not start until next summer, but all my surgeries are this fall and should end by thanksgiving. Im so NERVOUS! Definitely do not feel ready or like a third year. Time truly does fly!

Good luck!!! I had my surgeries this past spring, in my experience (and a lot of my classmates said the same) once I actually got in there I was so focused on everything that was happening that it was like I didn't have a chance to be nervous. My biggest advice - be sure you eat breakfast, don't lock your knees, and breathe!

 

[WildZoo]

My biggest advice - be sure you eat breakfast, don't lock your knees, and breathe!

Second all of this!

 

[Tru108]

Our clinics don't start until May--the day we take our last final of 3rd year, some of us start clinical year that night as overnight ICU 🙈
But we start our live animal surgeries this fall and have an elective course of surgery in the spring! I'm super stoked about that!

 

[EquusObsessed]

Anyone else having a quarter-life crisis before clinics where they don’t know if they still want to do the whole vet thing? Just me? I feel like I’ve been bombarded with so much stuff lately that’s been really discouraging, from the $300k in student loan debt that I will literally never pay off (thanks OOS), mixed information about whether that will affect my ability to afford a house… ever, to the increasingly discouraging view of equine practice, which I’ve never been convinced not to do until now. And I *know* I don’t want to do SA GP. Absolutely hard pass. I really really really hate surgery and never want to have to do several of them on a weekly basis. Suturing things up, fine. Cutting them open and anesthesia? No.

I have really enjoyed equine practice when I’ve shadowed and done short externships in the past but the non-stop negative view is wearing on me. 6 years ago when I decided to do the whole vet thing I was totally fine with giving up my entire life to do equine med. Since then I’ve realized that maybe I don’t want to have a 24/7 365 job… I’d like to ride my own horse, take my dog hiking, spend time with my SO, etc. My health has tanked in vet school too- I can’t sleep, I’ve had panic attacks for the first time ever (not often, but still), I’ve lost so much weight I’m clinically underweight, I can’t sleep, etc etc. I’m just tired. I don’t want to do this anymore. I’m doing well in class actually, grade-wise, I just feel so burned out I don’t even want to start clinics in a few months

(And I don’t really have time to decompress… my winter break is going to be spent trying to cram in an externship, and we only get 2.5 weeks of break before we start clinics at the beginning of January)

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

Nobody else can decide your career for you. If equine is what you really want to do, get into it! Decide for yourself if you like it. If you hate it, re-evaluate when the time comes... you're so close to the end, you just gotta finish

You can also consider a sub-set of equine med

Dentistry
Rehab
Research
I don't know much about horses so this is just what comes to me

 

[EquusObsessed]

Nobody else can decide your career for you. If equine is what you really want to do, get into it! Decide for yourself if you like it. If you hate it, re-evaluate when the time comes... you're so close to the end, you just gotta finish

You can also consider a sub-set of equine med

Dentistry
Rehab
Research
I don't know much about horses so this is just what comes to me

So I wanted to do rehab, but it’s essentially impossible to “start out” doing that. Rehab is genuinely my passion but I’ve come to realize I’m never going to have the opportunity to really do it… the certifications are expensive, the residency is not going to help my career any, most practices are not going to support or “accept” a more holistic, rehab-based approach to medicine, and I’m never going to have enough funds to start my own clinic (nor am I business savvy or organized enough to do that).

So it’s kind of like… I would have to do GP for a decade before I could even think about going into the rehab thing.

Research is kind of non-existent in equine unless you’re in an academic setting or work for one of the feed companies because it’s so expensive. I don’t want to work in an academic setting (or do a residency), and I actually left biochemistry and molecular bio research for vet med because I don’t enjoy research.

I just kind of feel like everything is a dead end at this point, and on top of having crushing student debt it’s just kind of demoralizing. I mean it’s too late now, I literally can’t financially afford to drop out even if I wanted to, but I really wish I hadn’t gone to vet school. I haven’t enjoyed it, and I’m now too financially screwed to do anything else

 

[Dinashadow]

Anyone else having a quarter-life crisis before clinics where they don’t know if they still want to do the whole vet thing? Just me? I feel like I’ve been bombarded with so much stuff lately that’s been really discouraging, from the $300k in student loan debt that I will literally never pay off (thanks OOS), mixed information about whether that will affect my ability to afford a house… ever, to the increasingly discouraging view of equine practice, which I’ve never been convinced not to do until now. And I *know* I don’t want to do SA GP. Absolutely hard pass. I really really really hate surgery and never want to have to do several of them on a weekly basis. Suturing things up, fine. Cutting them open and anesthesia? No.

The closer I get to clinics the more the imposter syndrome flares up. Like am I going to be a good vet? Is this ACTUALLY what I want to do? Am I going to despise this career a few years down the road, even though I've been working so hard for this the past few years?

So you're definitely not alone in those feelings.

I have really enjoyed equine practice when I’ve shadowed and done short externships in the past but the non-stop negative view is wearing on me. 6 years ago when I decided to do the whole vet thing I was totally fine with giving up my entire life to do equine med. Since then I’ve realized that maybe I don’t want to have a 24/7 365 job… I’d like to ride my own horse, take my dog hiking, spend time with my SO, etc. My health has tanked in vet school too- I can’t sleep, I’ve had panic attacks for the first time ever (not often, but still), I’ve lost so much weight I’m clinically underweight, I can’t sleep, etc etc. I’m just tired. I don’t want to do this anymore. I’m doing well in class actually, grade-wise, I just feel so burned out I don’t even want to start clinics in a few months

(And I don’t really have time to decompress… my winter break is going to be spent trying to cram in an externship, and we only get 2.5 weeks of break before we start clinics at the beginning of January)

Does your school have any counseling? Or maybe advisors or a trusted faculty member you can reach out to talk to about your future career options? It's also so so important that you take care of your mental health sooner rather than later (I speak from experience because my mental health has seriously tanked from vet school too).

I can't really speak about equine med, but have heard similar sentiments from friends who do want to do equine. I'm sorry you're going through this.

 

[finnickthedog]

And I *know* I don’t want to do SA GP. Absolutely hard pass. I really really really hate surgery and never want to have to do several of them on a weekly basis. Suturing things up, fine. Cutting them open and anesthesia? No.

I don't know if there's other reasons you want to avoid SA GP (and fair enough if there are) but I just want to let you know that you do not have to do surgery in SA GP.

 

[that redhead]

I don't know if there's other reasons you want to avoid SA GP (and fair enough if there are) but I just want to let you know that you do not have to do surgery in SA GP.

It used to be I would have politely disagreed on this - sure, you don’t have to do surgery as a GP but it would limit your marketability to potential employers. I know two vets who elected to stop doing surgery (or anesthetic/sedation-requiring procedures in general) and they were able to make it work, albeit awkwardly. They had also each been at a particular hospital for a time, not hired on with that stipulation.

However, with the way the market is for associates now, you could probably swing this more easily.

@EquusObsessed - it sounds like you have a very pessimistic view of everything right now. It’s very possible your mental health may be coloring your perceptions. Not to say equine med is sunshine and roses of course, but there are often bright spots where you never thought possible. My own career trajectory taught me that - I even came to enjoy my SA GP work, go figure!

I second the suggestions to find a way to address your mental health status and to talk to some equine people who may be able to give you some hope. I do think finishing school is likely the best path here, but it doesn’t mean you have to be a practicing vet, or even in vet med, forever. There are many opportunities that could feasibly present themselves in the future that you haven’t even considered And with the market like it is, I would hope your negotiating angle would be strong enough to allow you to find a practice that is more amenable to work-life balance; I think the field as a whole recognizes that this is an issue for basically ever facet of the profession and how newer graduates are emphasizing its importance in their offer selections. So don’t be afraid to lean on that.

 

[EquusObsessed]

It used to be I would have politely disagreed on this - sure, you don’t have to do surgery as a GP but it would limit your marketability to potential employers. I know two vets who elected to stop doing surgery (or anesthetic/sedation-requiring procedures in general) and they were able to make it work, albeit awkwardly. They had also each been at a particular hospital for a time, not hired on with that stipulation.

However, with the way the market is for associates now, you could probably swing this more easily.

@EquusObsessed - it sounds like you have a very pessimistic view of everything right now. It’s very possible your mental health may be coloring your perceptions. Not to say equine med is sunshine and roses of course, but there are often bright spots where you never thought possible. My own career trajectory taught me that - I even came to enjoy my SA GP work, go figure!

I second the suggestions to find a way to address your mental health status and to talk to some equine people who may be able to give you some hope. I do think finishing school is likely the best path here, but it doesn’t mean you have to be a practicing vet, or even in vet med, forever. There are many opportunities that could feasibly present themselves in the future that you haven’t even considered And with the market like it is, I would hope your negotiating angle would be strong enough to allow you to find a practice that is more amenable to work-life balance; I think the field as a whole recognizes that this is an issue for basically ever facet of the profession and how newer graduates are emphasizing its importance in their offer selections. So don’t be afraid to lean on that.

Thanks, I really hope I’m just being overly pessimistic. Unfortunately I can’t really do anything about the mental health things at the moment. My insurance doesn’t cover anything, and after almost 3 years I’ve only just now been able to sort out a provider and medication for my ADHD (which is still crippling me as a functional adult, but at least I can sometimes focus now). I’ve already tried going through the school for counseling, both the university student counseling and vet school and they basically both just passed me along. I tried private practice and that was a horrible experience, not to mention expensive.

I was running several times a week to destress last year, but I had to stop because I keep losing weight. I’m too stressed to eat enough to keep up with running, which is the only thing that helps my stress, it’s a great cycle. Plus food is expensive, so that doesn’t help.

On your last note- I know imposter syndrome and all, but I’m so scatterbrained and disorganized I really don’t know how *anyone* is going to want to hire me, much less me being able to be picky regarding employers. *I* wouldn’t hire me. I didn’t used to be this brain dead, but idk my brain cells have melted over the last few years or something

 

[JaynaAli]

I don’t have much to say that hasn’t been said already, but do you have to do the externship over Christmas break? Like is it a bonus you were trying to do for the experience while off of school or is it part of the curriculum? Could you take that time off to have a true break and see if that time off helps your mental state any? The vet school grind is hard, especially without appropriate breaks to decompress and spend time with friends/family or even just sleeping and playing video games or whatever you like to do.

 

[EquusObsessed]

I don’t have much to say that hasn’t been said already, but do you have to do the externship over Christmas break? Like is it a bonus you were trying to do for the experience while off of school or is it part of the curriculum? Could you take that time off to have a true break and see if that time off helps your mental state any? The vet school grind is hard, especially without appropriate breaks to decompress and spend time with friends/family or even just sleeping and playing video games or whatever you like to do.

So technically I don’t have to… but we only get so many externship weeks in our clinical year and if I DO want to do equine, externships are essentially the only way to scope out places for an internship (which is the only real way to get hired as an equine vet). I only have 3 externship slots during clinics, and I worked the entire last two summers so I didn’t have time to do anything then. If I want a better chance at a job after school, I really should extern over break, unfortunately.

 

[battie]

Anyone else having a quarter-life crisis before clinics where they don’t know if they still want to do the whole vet thing?

I graduated in May, went into SA GP, and am now considering alternatives once my contract is up in June. So it certainly isn't something you're alone in.

I am a small animal GP that does 0 anesthetic procedures besides the odd sedated lac repair. And I have 0 desire to do surgery. My main focus is appts and working on becoming adept in behavior. There are certainly options in SA GP these days.

I don’t really have time to decompress… my winter break is going to be spent trying to cram in an externship

Regardless of whether or not you commit to equine at this point, don't do the externship. I understand how necessary they are, particularly for landing residencies and internship. But the industry is hurting so bad that if you go to a smaller hospital or a mixed animal practice, they won't care. None of my equine/mixed friends had issues finding jobs this last spring. So don't do the externship.

I will say that I hated the classroom aspect of vet school. I was 134/135 class rank. I repeated first year. Clinics was by far the best year of vet school for me. I had so much spare time (especially after NAVLE) compared to didactics.

With that being said, once you're done with school, simply find a job. Vet med is not and should not be your life. Find a job you can tolerate, and then leave work at work. As others have said, you're not obligated to stay in clinical practice; with your previous career background, industry could be a good niche for you too.

 

[EquusObsessed]

I graduated in May, went into SA GP, and am now considering alternatives once my contract is up in June. So it certainly isn't something you're alone in.

I am a small animal GP that does 0 anesthetic procedures besides the odd sedated lac repair. And I have 0 desire to do surgery. My main focus is appts and working on becoming adept in behavior. There are certainly options in SA GP these days.

Regardless of whether or not you commit to equine at this point, don't do the externship. I understand how necessary they are, particularly for landing residencies and internship. But the industry is hurting so bad that if you go to a smaller hospital or a mixed animal practice, they won't care. None of my equine/mixed friends had issues finding jobs this last spring. So don't do the externship.

I will say that I hated the classroom aspect of vet school. I was 134/135 class rank. I repeated first year. Clinics was by far the best year of vet school for me. I had so much spare time (especially after NAVLE) compared to didactics.

With that being said, once you're done with school, simply find a job. Vet med is not and should not be your life. Find a job you can tolerate, and then leave work at work. As others have said, you're not obligated to stay in clinical practice; with your previous career background, industry could be a good niche for you too.

This is encouraging to hear, really. My main issue with SA is genuinely surgery, so I’d be more willing to do SA If it’s a possibility to avoid it! Anesthesia stresses me out, I have poor hand-eye coordination, and I’m just too forgetful to feel comfortable following the “procedure” aspects of surgery. The way I manage my ADHD in other aspects is by going very slowly and double checking everything I do, because I’ve got one functional braincell on a good day. You can double check things like medications, doses, and labs. You can’t really double check something in the middle of a surgery (not easily anyways). Anesthesia just makes me anxious. I’ve monitored probably hundreds of surgeries, before and during vet school, and hated it every time. Everyone keeps saying it gets easier and I’ve never experienced that 😅

And are clinics really less time? I’ve been led to believe by current students that we’re in the hospital 10+ hours a day on most rotations, sometimes for 24-48 hours straight? (Might be school and rotation dependent of course)

 

[battie]

And are clinics really less time?

It was rotation dependent. My longest was equine med during foal apocalypse 2021, where we logged 90-100 hours each week. But on my derm rotation, I logged maybe 30 hours per week. I was in hospital 26 hours in a row once. But besides that, I would say the longest was 13 hours or so. Average probably 10 hours. I would say the average for me at my school would have been 50 or so hours per week.

 

[Trilt]

It used to be I would have politely disagreed on this - sure, you don’t have to do surgery as a GP but it would limit your marketability to potential employers. I know two vets who elected to stop doing surgery (or anesthetic/sedation-requiring procedures in general) and they were able to make it work, albeit awkwardly. They had also each been at a particular hospital for a time, not hired on with that stipulation.

However, with the way the market is for associates now, you could probably swing this more easily.

Even before the market was like this, I would disagree - we actually have a doctor at my GP who doesn't enjoy surgery at all, and we very easily moved her into doing more medicine workups. We trade cases back and forth and when I worked there full time I'd cut most of her cases for her (because I very much enjoy surgery and would rather not talk to the people and look at the complicated labs! ) I think there's definitely a place for people who aren't surgically interested. Hell, most relief vets won't touch surgery and still get more employment than they can take.

On your last note- I know imposter syndrome and all, but I’m so scatterbrained and disorganized I really don’t know how *anyone* is going to want to hire me, much less me being able to be picky regarding employers. *I* wouldn’t hire me. I didn’t used to be this brain dead, but idk my brain cells have melted over the last few years or something

I promise promise promise being scatterbrained and disorganized is not the end of the world. My mother has gotten on me about my organization skills since before I could spell "organize," and I've got the attention span of a stoned chipmunk. I still do totally fine. It's all about finding the right environment and people around you for success.

 

[EquusObsessed]

Even before the market was like this, I would disagree - we actually have a doctor at my GP who doesn't enjoy surgery at all, and we very easily moved her into doing more medicine workups. We trade cases back and forth and when I worked there full time I'd cut most of her cases for her (because I very much enjoy surgery and would rather not talk to the people and look at the complicated labs! ) I think there's definitely a place for people who aren't surgically interested. Hell, most relief vets won't touch surgery and still get more employment than they can take.


I promise promise promise being scatterbrained and disorganized is not the end of the world. My mother has gotten on me about my organization skills since before I could spell "organize," and I've got the attention span of a stoned chipmunk. I still do totally fine. It's all about finding the right environment and people around you for success.

Oh I love internal med and labs. I thrived in clin path and endocrinology, and I like knowing how things work. I do not like how every SA clinic I’ve worked in basically doesn’t allow time or attention to really utilize diagnostics as well as I’d like- financial constraints of owners aside I never felt like I’d get to do “enough” internal med in GP (nowhere I’ve worked has ever done a blood smear except to see if a cat had clumped platelets???)

I’ve considered pursuing clin path or internal med but I don’t think I have a residency in me. I’ve relocated 6 times in 3 years (many housing disasters in the last year of undergrad and during vet school) and I’ve been long distance with my boyfriend for three years now. I don’t think I’m capable of moving three more times for an internship and residency and continuing to put my personal life on hold. thank God I don’t want kids at least

 

[Trilt]

Oh I love internal med and labs. I thrived in clin path and endocrinology, and I like knowing how things work. I do not like how every SA clinic I’ve worked in basically doesn’t allow time or attention to really utilize diagnostics as well as I’d like- financial constraints of owners aside I never felt like I’d get to do “enough” internal med in GP (nowhere I’ve worked has ever done a blood smear except to see if a cat had clumped platelets???)

I’ve considered pursuing clin path or internal med but I don’t think I have a residency in me. I’ve relocated 6 times in 3 years (many housing disasters in the last year of undergrad and during vet school) and I’ve been long distance with my boyfriend for three years now. I don’t think I’m capable of moving three more times for an internship and residency and continuing to put my personal life on hold. thank God I don’t want kids at least

It's all about efficiency in GP - I occasionally looked at smears, but we did it when it was time sensitive. If I thought something had IMHA in hospital and needed to see spherocytes and potentially start treatment before the weekend, I'd like at the slide while waiting for pathology review. But in 99%+ percent of time, waiting for the lab review is not make it or break it for a case, and frankly they're better at it than me.

It also depends on the clinic. Some are definitely more wellness focused and refer almost everything, some are able to do a lot more of their own workup. I personally have had jobs in clinics in smaller towns because I like the latter.

 

[vetmedhead]

I promise promise promise being scatterbrained and disorganized is not the end of the world. My mother has gotten on me about my organization skills since before I could spell "organize," and I've got the attention span of a stoned chipmunk. I still do totally fine. It's all about finding the right environment and people around you for success.

I once forgot to bring my own stethoscope to a clinic where I had to spend like two hours doing presurgical exams before doing anything else, count suture throws with days of the week instead of numbers because I get distracted and lose count if I don't, and also have to do a testicle or ovary count before I finish procedures because I get distracted and can't remember if I got both of them... and still cranking along as a doctor lol. The techs have just learned to follow me and hand me things when I'm being stupid.

 

[Trilt]

count suture throws with days of the week instead of numbers

well jfc where have you been all my career

I definitely put like eight throws on a stay suture for a u-cath yesterday because I was explaining something else at the same time as stitching and just kept going. they haven't taken my degree away yet!

 

[vetmedhead]

well jfc where have you been all my career

I definitely put like eight throws on a stay suture for a u-cath yesterday because I was explaining something else at the same time as stitching and just kept going. they haven't taken my degree away yet!

I can't take credit for it, my surgery professor mentioned jokingly that one of her residents had to do this and I went "this is mine now"

Have only had students and techs ask a couple times why I'm mumbling 'Monday...Tuesday...Wednesday...Thursday...Friday...Saturday... now we're ready to party" under my breath when I do continuous lines

Because we all know we party on Saturdays

 

[battie]

My hospital does a lot of our own work up for the betes, addisons, cushings, hospitalization. Etc. We're a decent in between a tertiary facility and a standard GP.

 

[Coopah]

Also as a fun side note. You can find a surprising amount if places in ER that don't let you do your own surgery because they have SURGEONS for that so if you find a place with surgeons you don't do ANY surgery.

 

[cdo96]

Also as a fun side note. You can find a surprising amount if places in ER that don't let you do your own surgery because they have SURGEONS for that so if you find a place with surgeons you don't do ANY surgery.

If you go to a place with surgical residents and surgical interns as well, you lose out on a lot of procedures as well!

 

[JustPaws]

It was rotation dependent. My longest was equine med during foal apocalypse 2021, where we logged 90-100 hours each week. But on my derm rotation, I logged maybe 30 hours per week. I was in hospital 26 hours in a row once. But besides that, I would say the longest was 13 hours or so. Average probably 10 hours. I would say the average for me at my school would have been 50 or so hours per week.

This is against our school's work hour policy so definitely school specific

 

[britzen]

This is against our school's work hour policy so definitely school specific

Same... Our school has a cap that you can't work more than 18 hours in a row (or maybe
in a 24 hour period? Idk. Haven't ever been there more than 14 hours in a day so far). If you hit the cap, they are required to give you at least 10 hours off before you are required to come back in.

I think 50-60 hours per week average is probably fair for most in house rotations.

 

[battie]

This is against our school's work hour policy so definitely school specific

Which part?

 

[vetmedhead]

I can't take credit for it, my surgery professor mentioned jokingly that one of her residents had to do this and I went "this is mine now"

Have only had students and techs ask a couple times why I'm mumbling 'Monday...Tuesday...Wednesday...Thursday...Friday...Saturday... now we're ready to party" under my breath when I do continuous lines

Because we all know we party on Saturdays

Update: partied on Saturday, removed several organs and placed several continuous lines

 

[battie]

Same... Our school has a cap that you can't work more than 18 hours in a row (or maybe
in a 24 hour period? Idk. Haven't ever been there more than 14 hours in a day so far). If you hit the cap, they are required to give you at least 10 hours off before you are required to come back in.

I think 50-60 hours per week average is probably fair for most in house rotations.

Is this well enforced? I can guarantee that our class of 2020 would have tried to enforce this kind of rule if they knew how other schools enforced it.

 

[WildZoo]

Oh I love internal med and labs. I thrived in clin path and endocrinology, and I like knowing how things work. I do not like how every SA clinic I’ve worked in basically doesn’t allow time or attention to really utilize diagnostics as well as I’d like- financial constraints of owners aside I never felt like I’d get to do “enough” internal med in GP (nowhere I’ve worked has ever done a blood smear except to see if a cat had clumped platelets???)

I’ve considered pursuing clin path or internal med but I don’t think I have a residency in me. I’ve relocated 6 times in 3 years (many housing disasters in the last year of undergrad and during vet school) and I’ve been long distance with my boyfriend for three years now. I don’t think I’m capable of moving three more times for an internship and residency and continuing to put my personal life on hold. thank God I don’t want kids at least

Much as my GP clinic is a bit old school we also do most of our own workups. I look at blood smears myself if I think it's going to be pertinent, we have a doctor who will do diagnostic ultrasounds (and I'm trying to work my way up to being a bit more useful with it). For those longer workups I'll often send owners off to run errands or whatever while we work with the animal. Gives me time to think, opens up a room for the wellness stuff, and then they aren't sitting there being antsy. Appropriate appointment scheduling also makes a big difference there.

All that to say there are all kinds of SA GP clinics out there. In the grand scheme of things I've only worked at 3 over the course of my life and they've all operated differently.

 

[JustPaws]

Which part?

Cap on hours. I think we have max of 16hrs in a row before need to be given 10hrs off, and a 60hr week cap. It's only enforced if the students advocate for it, I try to help my rotation mates remember it and we stand together. Ain't no way I'm working 90hrs a week. Some rotations obviously better than others but the most I hear is students being pressured into 70 hrs. They are actively surveying us to ask which rotations are following it and who isnt

 

[battie]

I try to help my rotation mates remember it and we stand together

Good for you guys! Part of the problem is that we don't have enough students on certain rotations and too many on others.

 

[britzen]

Is this well enforced? I can guarantee that our class of 2020 would have tried to enforce this kind of rule if they knew how other schools enforced it.

I think so. The overall impression I have is that if clinicians give you grief about it that Academic Affairs will get involved to enforce it and that it would reflect negatively on the clinicians/interns/residents performance reviews.

Super long hours haven't been a problem for me personally, and I haven't heard any specific grumblings from my classmates about the cap not being enforced. I have heard some definite grumblings about some rotations keeping students late for no reason or overworking students in terms of total hours per week (as in 12-14 hour days 6 or 7 days a week). One rotation has already made schedule changes this year based on student complaints to address unreasonable student hours on nights and weekends.

I'm mostly out on time, or often within 2 hours of on time. I've never worked longer 14 hours, although I'm sure it will happen at some point.

The rotation I'm on currently also makes an effort to release students at lunch if they have an ICU shift that night from 4 pm - midnight so that we can go home and take a nap. I've heard of other rotations where ICU duties are included that are also amenable to that as long as you let them know in advance and you don't have a patient or appointment that actively needs something during the afternoon.

The late night and overnight ICU staff also release students early if it's slow (ICU shifts are in addition to your regular rotation hours here). My last shift was scheduled from 12 am - 8 am and I was released about 3:30 am. The other student working the same shift was released around 5:30. (I ended up staying until 6 am to work on a IVDD dog that came in because I wanted to practice doing a neuro exam, but there was zero expectation from the overnight doctor that any student needed to stay or come in to help her.)

It is the student's responsibility to tell whoever they are working with that they are close to hitting their hourly cap. And also to inform your rotation clinicians asap if you'll be missing part of your next scheduled shift because of it.

I can't speak for everyone's experience of course. The small animal trackers definitely seem to have it the worst in terms of total number of hours in the hospital, and I know some of them are dragging and/or angry about how scheduling is working for them. As a caveat, my track has a huge number of external rotations, so maybe I'll feel differently once I finish all my in-house stuff next spring...

 

[EquusObsessed]

Same... Our school has a cap that you can't work more than 18 hours in a row (or maybe
in a 24 hour period? Idk. Haven't ever been there more than 14 hours in a day so far). If you hit the cap, they are required to give you at least 10 hours off before you are required to come back in.

I think 50-60 hours per week average is probably fair for most in house rotations.

Our school has no such policy as far as I know. We’ve been specifically warned that because our clinic rotations end at midnight on Sunday and begin at 12:01 on Monday, there are likely times we can be in the hospital for over 24-36 hours straight.

 

[EquusObsessed]

I think so. The overall impression I have is that if clinicians give you grief about it that Academic Affairs will get involved to enforce it and that it would reflect negatively on the clinicians/interns/residents performance reviews.

Super long hours haven't been a problem for me personally, and I haven't heard any specific grumblings from my classmates about the cap not being enforced. I have heard some definite grumblings about some rotations keeping students late for no reason or overworking students in terms of total hours per week (as in 12-14 hour days 6 or 7 days a week). One rotation has already made schedule changes this year based on student complaints to address unreasonable student hours on nights and weekends.

I'm mostly out on time, or often within 2 hours of on time. I've never worked longer 14 hours, although I'm sure it will happen at some point.

The rotation I'm on currently also makes an effort to release students at lunch if they have an ICU shift that night from 4 pm - midnight so that we can go home and take a nap. I've heard of other rotations where ICU duties are included that are also amenable to that as long as you let them know in advance and you don't have a patient or appointment that actively needs something during the afternoon.

The late night and overnight ICU staff also release students early if it's slow (ICU shifts are in addition to your regular rotation hours here). My last shift was scheduled from 12 am - 8 am and I was released about 3:30 am. The other student working the same shift was released around 5:30. (I ended up staying until 6 am to work on a IVDD dog that came in because I wanted to practice doing a neuro exam, but there was zero expectation from the overnight doctor that any student needed to stay or come in to help her.)

It is the student's responsibility to tell whoever they are working with that they are close to hitting their hourly cap. And also to inform your rotation clinicians asap if you'll be missing part of your next scheduled shift because of it.

I can't speak for everyone's experience of course. The small animal trackers definitely seem to have it the worst in terms of total number of hours in the hospital, and I know some of them are dragging and/or angry about how scheduling is working for them. As a caveat, my track has a huge number of external rotations, so maybe I'll feel differently once I finish all my in-house stuff next spring...

This too, my school doesn’t follow any of this. We are horribly understaffed. I’ve been told most rotations don’t have lunch, or only have 30min sometimes, so you can’t go home on lunch. You’re also typically scheduled for 8-10 hour shifts and can’t leave early even if nothing is going on.

As someone with a dog at home who lives alone, I’m considering sending my dog to live with my parents during my clinical year-and-a-half because I don’t think I’ll have time to go let her out and can’t justify leaving her cooped up 10-12 hours a day every day. Unless my boyfriend is able to move down here in the next few months, but with how insanely competitive housing is right now I don’t think that’s going to happen anytime soon (and my place is veeeerrrry tiny so him moving in with me would be difficult)

 

[that redhead]

I thought AVC’s clinical year student expectations were reasonable in terms of hours. Some of it was voluntary of course, like if you really wanted to see a particular case or whatever, and there were definitely times you stayed later or came in earlier depending on rotation and caseload. But overall a decent balance. The culture around medicine, vet or human, can’t change unless people stand up for themselves, but it’s also hard to be the lone wolf and draw the ire of the unreasonable clinicians who are passing on what they went through. Part of it is attitude too - be punctual, work hard and have a positive attitude and it will go a long way compared to someone complaining constantly and acting entitled.

 

[PetVet23]

Anyone else starting to feel the semester come crashing down? I just took the last of my midterms 2 weeks ago and my first final is this Friday. Add in all of the group projects and random assignments and I have so much to do I don't even know where to start

 

[EquusObsessed]

Anyone else starting to feel the semester come crashing down? I just took the last of my midterms 2 weeks ago and my first final is this Friday. Add in all of the group projects and random assignments and I have so much to do I don't even know where to start

I had several bad mental health weeks in a row and now that I’m out of the fog have like a dozen things to “catch up on,” so it’s like being hit by a tsunami

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

Anyone else starting to feel the semester come crashing down? I just took the last of my midterms 2 weeks ago and my first final is this Friday. Add in all of the group projects and random assignments and I have so much to do I don't even know where to start

October was the worst month for me. We don't take our last final until 12/17 and until then I wouldn't say it's easy but it's a comfortable pace, which I'm grateful for.

 

[Dinashadow]

How is everyone doing?

I'm currently slogging through the end of semester exams and assignments, and all I can think about is how clinics are on the horizon