Do I have a chance?

[jackdaniel7]

Hi guys,

I really want to get into a good MD school however my gpa is really bumming me out. I have a 3.35 and scored a 523 (131 CARS/131 CPB/131 PSB/130 BB) on the MCAT. I know I scored really well on the MCAT but I am afraid my GPA is a deal breaker for some of the better schools.

What do you guys think?

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[bears1992]

According to 2015 matriculates for MD, you have a 49% chance based on your MCAT and cGPA (assuming you are not a URM)
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

The big academic factors for Adcoms are sGPA>MCAT>Grade Trend>cGPA
https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/2017mcatguide.pdf#page=9

Your GPA will absolutely be a deal breaker for some schools but I imagine you are competitive for most mid tier and all bottom tier schools. Adcoms on this site have said that a huge MCAT does not necessarily make up for a low GPA so I think you are going to be looked at very different for each school. Just apply broadly and you should get some II from the bottom/middle tier schools that value MCAT over GPA. You probably need to provide more information before anyone on this site can provide any substantial advice but I would say that you should have an even mix of DO and MD schools when you apply though.

1) What is your GPA for each year? AMCAS has you list your GPA for dual enrollment, freshman, sophomore, junior, senior and postbac.
2) Are you a URM?
3) Do you have any volunteering?
4) Do you have any shadowing?
5) Do you have any research?
6) Do you have any leadership positions?
7) Did you donate a hospital wing?
8) What is your sGPA (BCPM)?

 

[Crayola227]

oh jeez snowflake the best medical school is the one that ACCEPTS you

you know what they call the guy who graduated from the worst accredited med school in the US? "Doctor."

Understandably you care so deeply for other human beings you just want the best med school to best prepare you to heal others

I get it that you're likely worried what this will mean for future career options - and that's fair.

However, OTOH it shouldn't matter at the end of the day. Don't go to medical school if you are not comfortable being a primary care doctor or a psychiatrist. If you can't imagine that in your future and being happy, forget it now.

Because yes, specialties are competitive, and even if you go to Harvard, there is no telling what happens between now and the match. Factors outside your control may mean that you have to go into the least competitive least "desirable" specialty in the most grindy program in the most miserable patch of US soil to be a practicing physician.

The "lowest common denominator" is being a family practitioner in a sleepy little town. And guess what? It's actually a really nice and meaningful life, aside from all the doctor stuff that sucks for all doctors and is the reason not to even go to medical school in the first place.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

The other poster points out that much more is needed if we were to actually try to compile a reasonable school list. While every school can potentially make you a doctor, they do have different "personalities," so that's well and good.

 

[jackdaniel7]

According to 2015 matriculates for MD, you have a 49% chance based on your MCAT and cGPA (assuming you are not a URM)
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

The big academic factors for Adcoms are sGPA>MCAT>Grade Trend>cGPA
https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/2017mcatguide.pdf#page=9

Your GPA will absolutely be a deal break for some schools but I imagine you are competitive for most mid tier and all bottom tier schools. Adcoms on this site have said that a huge MCAT does not necessarily make up for a low GPA so I think you are going to be looked at very different for each school. Just apply broadly and you should get some II from the bottom/middle tier schools that value MCAT over GPA. You probably need to provide more information before anyone on this site can provide any substantial advice but I would say that you should have an even mix of DO and MD schools when you apply though.

1) What is your GPA for each year? AMCAS has you list your GPA for dual enrollment, freshman, sophomore, junior, senior and postbac.
2) Are you a URM?
3) Do you have any volunteering?
4) Do you have any shadowing?
5) Do you have any research?
6) Do you have any leadership positions?
7) Did you donate a hospital wing?
8) What is your sGPA (BCPM)?

Fair enough. I don't have an upward trend in GPA (no trend at all, it goes up and down). I have roughly 150 hours in clinical volunteering. 2 years in research. I have 1 first author pub at a mid impact factor journal and another co-pub. I have done peer tutoring. sGPA is about the same. I have also volunteering for a couple of UN projects. Ideally, I would like to get into UCLA, Columbia or NYU, but I'm pretty doubtful.

 

[jackdaniel7]

oh jeez snowflake the best medical school is the one that ACCEPTS you

you know what they call the guy who graduated from the worst accredited med school in the US? "Doctor."

Understandably you care so deeply for other human beings you just want the best med school to best prepare you to heal others

I get it that you're likely worried what this will mean for future career options - and that's fair.

However, OTOH it shouldn't matter at the end of the day. Don't go to medical school if you are not comfortable being a primary care doctor or a psychiatrist. If you can't imagine that in your future and being happy, forget it now.

Because yes, specialties are competitive, and even if you go to Harvard, there is no telling what happens between now and the match. Factors outside your control may mean that you have to go into the least competitive least "desirable" specialty in the most grindy program in the most miserable patch of US soil to be a practicing physician.

The "lowest common denominator" is being a family practitioner in a sleepy little town. And guess what? It's actually a really nice and meaningful life, aside from all the doctor stuff that sucks for all doctors and is the reason not to even go to medical school in the first place.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

The other poster points out that much more is needed if we were to actually try to compile a reasonable school list. While every school can potentially make you a doctor, they do have different "personalities," so that's well and good.

Fair point. My concern is more location. Ideally, I want to go study at a city I like.

 

[bears1992]

I think you might have a tough time at MD schools without an upward trend. Most of the adcoms here say that they are really looking for two main things in applicant:
1) Students that have a high chance of graduating in four years and passing their exams on the first try
2) Students that demonstrate altruism and compassion for the under-severed

The general consensus on this site and from AAMC seems to be that GPA is correlated to graduating in four years and MCAT is correlated to exam pass rates. Your MCAT alleviates any concern that you won't pass your USMLE on the first try but your GPA may raise concerns about your ability to handle the rigorous curriculum. I think this is why upward trend/postbac GPA is important because a year or two of 3.8+ tells adcoms that you can excel at med-school related courses. I think you will have more luck at DO schools as your GPA is within 1 standard deviation of their matriculates. I'm not an adcom or even a medical student, this is just advice I have seen given by adcoms to students in similar situations to yours. I don't think you are in bad shape, others with your stats applied and had a 50% success rate and I imagine others like you would have a much higher success rate applying to DO.

 

[bears1992]

oh jeez snowflake the best medical school is the one that ACCEPTS you

you know what they call the guy who graduated from the worst accredited med school in the US? "Doctor."

Understandably you care so deeply for other human beings you just want the best med school to best prepare you to heal others

I get it that you're likely worried what this will mean for future career options - and that's fair.

However, OTOH it shouldn't matter at the end of the day. Don't go to medical school if you are not comfortable being a primary care doctor or a psychiatrist. If you can't imagine that in your future and being happy, forget it now.

Because yes, specialties are competitive, and even if you go to Harvard, there is no telling what happens between now and the match. Factors outside your control may mean that you have to go into the least competitive least "desirable" specialty in the most grindy program in the most miserable patch of US soil to be a practicing physician.

The "lowest common denominator" is being a family practitioner in a sleepy little town. And guess what? It's actually a really nice and meaningful life, aside from all the doctor stuff that sucks for all doctors and is the reason not to even go to medical school in the first place.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

The other poster points out that much more is needed if we were to actually try to compile a reasonable school list. While every school can potentially make you a doctor, they do have different "personalities," so that's well and good.

I would say, the best medical school is the one in the US that accepts you.

 

[Crayola227]

I would say, the best medical school is the one in the US that accepts you.

touche!

 

[Crayola227]

Fair point. My concern is more location. Ideally, I want to go study at a city I like.

It would take a lot for me to write out and explain why your response to my response has gained a lot of my respect

good luck

 

[bears1992]

Fair point. My concern is more location. Ideally, I want to go study at a city I like.

Making my first school list, I (actually it was my wife) weeded out maybe 30% of the schools because of location. The more we talked about it, the more she was open to schools in rural locations like Alabama. Think of it this way, medical school is going to take up 80 hours per week for four years of your life. That does not leave you with much time to go out and enjoy the area you are in. Going to a school in your dream area does not really mean much if you are always stuck in class/rotations or studying. For MD schools, you need to be open to all locations. DO is a different story as you could probably snag multiple II with a 15 school list (only 41 applicants applied to DO with your MCAT last year, most DO adcoms will not see an MCAT as high as yours the entire cycle).

 

[bears1992]

touche!

I have a golden retriever. Not really the smartest dog (as you can see from the pic) but she is sitting on multiple acceptances from newer Caribbean schools. She didn't even graduate in the top 50% of her puppy training class, but because she got approved for loans, all those Caribbean schools were knocking down her doggy door to accept her.

 

[WGSgrad]

The reason that you aren't getting more constructive responses to this thread is because it's somewhat reasonable that someone with your MCAT score has a shot at getting in somewhere, especially if you are open to DO. It seems like the real question you want answered is whether or not you have a shot at any of the elite programs you mentioned (UCLA, NYU, Columbia, etc.).

On one hand, I understand the hedge...asking questions like that on SDN can be pretty brutal...especially if you don't have a sterling academic resume that would suggest you have the right to aspire to such programs.

On the other hand, the goal is to get accepted. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by overloading your app list with elite programs in "desirable" cities. Buy the MSAR, find schools that would be a good fit based on your profile, seriously consider adding some DO programs, and throw in a couple of long shots (maybe the three you mentioned). Get into medical school, bust your ass, wreck the steps, and be as picky as you want about where you do residency, ranking to ad infinitum. By that point, you'll have earned it.

But again, the goal at this point is to get in. Don't be that poster that eschews everyone's advice and then a year from now your asking the same question, several thousand dollars poorer.


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[Naruhodo]

Hi there,

I was in a similar situation with not quite so drastic a spread (a couple tenths higher GPA, a couple points lower MCAT). I'll start off by saying that I am incredibly grateful to have gotten in this cycle, but it was looking bleak there for a while. Of the three programs you mentioned, UCLA never even sent me a secondary, NYU was my first rejection, and I'm presuming Columbia will be a rejection soon.

Here's what I would tell myself if (godforbid) I ever had to go through this process again. Schools are already taking a gamble admitting a nontrad whose been out of school a while, let alone one with a less than spectacular undergraduate record. So look as much like a traditional applicant as you can in all other sections of your application. Beef up those clinical volunteer hours and primary care shadowing is a must even if its not that many hours. Work on telling your story well and run it by lots of people. Know how to highlight what it is that you will bring to medicine, that a more even applicant straight out of undergrad couldn't necessarily. Don't waste too much energy (or resources) on OOS schools that are unlikely to admit you. Make sure you actually meet the mission of the schools to which you do apply. Apply to at least 20 programs, and if it comes down to it you can compare program vs. location (if you are fortunate enough to have a choice in the end).

Wishing you the best of luck!

 

[esob]

Honestly a grand slam MCAT + that GPA w/o an upward trend makes you look like a screw off (everyone else was thinking it, no one else was apparently willing to say it). I don't say that to be harsh but rather to bring up that unless you have some mitigating circumstance that caused your trend to go up and down (like a chronic health condition or a series of unfortunate events) the the only explanation is that you messed around some semesters and didn't take things seriously. It demonstrates immaturity which is quite possibly one of the least desirable traits anyone wants in their physician.

That doesn't mean that it's the end or that some school won't scoop you up just to pad their MCAT average (for the student they took in who actually didn't screw around but lacked the same advantages you might have had access too and thus had a poor MCAT but was an overall good candidate), but it does mean you need to own up to your behavior and do whatever you can to demonstrate you have transcended that phase of your existence. I would also be prepared to own up to it in an interview and explain why that is no longer the case.

 

[futuremdforme]

Hi guys,

I really want to get into a good MD school however my gpa is really bumming me out. I have a 3.35 and scored a 523 (131 CARS/131 CPB/131 PSB/130 BB) on the MCAT. I know I scored really well on the MCAT but I am afraid my GPA is a deal breaker for some of the better schools.

What do you guys think?

What is the question? Your GPA will be a dealbreaker to some schools, and you're probably not going to get into a top school because you haven't proven that you'll put in the work. However, you have shown that you're smart and analytical, and your GPA is not terrible so you'll probably get in somewhere. But if you were dreaming of Harvard... well, so do lots of people but it doesn't mean they all get it.

 

[Ad2b]

That MCAT score though will open MD doors. Congrats!!!! Maybe not Harvard but a good school and as already stated:

The best medical school to go to is the one you get accepted to and at the end, you're still called "Doctor" ...