Do NOT go into Dentistry - Trust me it is SATURATED

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Faris_ said:
I was in the army and ate s*** with both hands
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Lose the utensils out of your MRE? ;)

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Faris_ said:
This conversation went off the rails. The whole reason sanitation was brought up was to compare opportunity cost with dentistry while considering it is an unwanted profession by most (all, in the case of this forum participants). I was in the army and ate s*** with both hands and would never go back ( had its moments and individual experience varies), we're not talking about the garbageman or military personal contribution to society compared to a dentist but job satisfaction on a personal level with comfortable living. As a dentist you're your own boss, relatively successful without the need to be born from rich, less work for more money, 9 to 5 only, and if you do it right you get paid to go to school. it is funny you can so easily through some righteous BS on the rest when am 100% sure none of you would want to be garbageman and would only do it for maybe a day to bolster your self-righteousness and pretentious personality.
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I never stated that garbageman was an unwanted profession
you could change it to any union municipal job and have an lower comparison
garbagemen make more money, because there are fewer people that want the job
I am talking only about opportunity cost and supply and demand (garbageman wages)
 
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Big Time Hoosier said:
Lose the utensils out of your MRE? ;)

Big Hoss
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I was referring more to things like having to kill a few scorpions every night before a snooze so I won't die in my sleep because we're running an OP in the middle of nowhere on the Iraqi-Iranian border. I always keep a spoon weaved on my vest along with MRE Tabasco bottles from others I traded for lol.
 
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Faris_ said:
This conversation went off the rails. The whole reason sanitation was brought up was to compare opportunity cost with dentistry while considering it is an unwanted profession by most (all, in the case of this forum participants). I was in the army and ate s*** with both hands and would never go back ( had its moments and individual experience varies), we're not talking about the garbageman or military personal contribution to society compared to a dentist but job satisfaction on a personal level with comfortable living. As a dentist you're your own boss, relatively successful without the need to be born from rich, less work for more money, 9 to 5 only, and if you do it right you get paid to go to school. it is funny you can so easily through some righteous BS on the rest when am 100% sure none of you would want to be garbageman and would only do it for maybe a day to bolster your self-righteousness and pretentious personality.
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You are definitely not your own boss if you're a fresh graduate looking for an associate position or a corporate position. The corporation can fire you if you underperform (although thats rare) but there is certainly a production quota you have to meet. You're not the boss of anything.
Relatively successful without the need to be born from rich?...you and I have different opinions on success. For me, I would rather not be in debt to the govt for $400-700k and make soul-sucking monthly payments for a good portion of my 30s and 40s. I would rather have rich parents pay for most of my tuition but thats just me. Maybe I'm crazy
And what dental schools pay you to go to school? where is this phenomenon?
 
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lazyindy said:
And what dental schools pay you to go to school? where is this phenomenon?
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I was curious about this as well. Outside of HPSP and NHSC, there are very few, if any, opportunities to get paid to go and both of those programs are competitive and have a limited number of spots.
 
fermi555 said:
I was curious about this as well. Outside of HPSP and NHSC, there are very few, if any, opportunities to get paid to go and both of those programs are competitive and have a limited number of spots.
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I'll get paid somewhere between 100-160k during dental school, which is the BAH for 36 months adjusted for zip code on the GI Bill
 
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lazyindy said:
You are definitely not your own boss if you're a fresh graduate looking for an associate position or a corporate position. The corporation can fire you if you underperform (although thats rare) but there is certainly a production quota you have to meet. You're not the boss of anything.
Relatively successful without the need to be born from rich?...you and I have different opinions on success. For me, I would rather not be in debt to the govt for $400-700k and make soul-sucking monthly payments for a good portion of my 30s and 40s. I would rather have rich parents pay for most of my tuition but thats just me. Maybe I'm crazy
And what dental schools pay you to go to school? where is this phenomenon?
Click to expand...

- Am not referring to a fresh graduate, am talking about the average dentist midpoint through their career, fresh out of dental school is insignificant compared to the entire career of a dentist. There is no job that has as much job guarantee and comfortable pay as much as a dentist making 6 figures on day 1 after school graduation without the need for any capital and where you can be your own boss a few years after graduation.
- The word success is subjective but the way I see it is any path where any person of any background and income level can just study hard for a few years and become guaranteed a job in the on of the top jobs in the country period is considered success. I don't get the "rich parents" part, personally my parents are still below the poverty line and yes, it would've been great if they could pay for my education too.
- As for the "getting paid while going to school" part.... Am getting paid currently $2K a month that goes directly in my pocket plus tuition and fees to attend school and if accepted into a dental school the first 2.5 years will be paid as well and that's using the GI-bill alone.. after exhausting that I'll tap into Voc-rehab and it will also pay tuition,fees, and living expenses for the remaining of the program no matter how long it takes.. I can even get into a medical school and graduate without paying any tuition and fees in texas if I want to after dental school that because I get 150 CSH from Hazelwood act as a Texas resident. beside this, there's HPSP and numerous scholarships that are given to people with excellent stats and I've heard more than once in this forum about someone getting full ride scholarship or close to it. Am sure there are many other options but I think I made my point.

I came to this country 6 years ago alone with a BS that's worth nothing and $0 in my pocket, how could I have managed to get a MS and almost done getting my second bachelors (spring 2021 graduating) and will get all of dental school paid for and all from US schools while you're wondering how could 4 years of schools be paid for without a lone is one for the books
 
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Faris_ said:
- Am not referring to a fresh graduate, am talking about the average dentist midpoint through their career, fresh out of dental school is insignificant compared to the entire career of a dentist. There is no job that has as much job guarantee and comfortable pay as much as a dentist making 6 figures on day 1 after school graduation without the need for any capital and where you can be your own boss a few years after graduation.
- The word success is subjective but the way I see it is any path where any person of any background and income level can just study hard for a few years and become guaranteed a job in the on of the top jobs in the country period is considered success. I don't get the rich parents part, personally my parents are still below the poverty line and yes, it would've been great if they could pay for my education too.
- As for the "getting paid while going to school" part.... Am getting paid currently $2K a month that goes directly in my pocket plus tuition and fees to attend school and if accepted into a dental school the first 2.5 years will be paid as well and that's using the GI-bill alone.. after exhausting that I'll tap into Voc-rehab and it will also pay tuition,fees, and living expenses for the remaining of the program no matter how long it takes.. I can even get into a medical school and graduate without paying any tuition and fees in texas if I want to after dental school that because I get 150 CSH from Hazelwood act as a Texas resident. beside this, there's HPSP and numerous scholarships that are given to people with excellent stats and I've heard more than once in this forum about someone getting full ride scholarship or close to it. Am sure there are many other options but I think I made my point.

I came to this country 6 years ago alone with a BS that's worth nothing and $0 in my pocket, how could I have managed to get a MS and almost done getting my second bachelors (spring 2021 graduating) and will get all of dental school paid for and all from US schools while you're wondering how could 4 years of schools be paid for without a lone is one for the book
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Preach. More people should consider the route of military THEN dentistry. As an officer I made about 100k a year for four years, and now have the GI Bill that will be worth around 500k. I will graduate dental school debt free and owe the military no further service.

HPSP is not the only way to use the military to pay for school. Plus doing what I did in the military was more rewarding than I believe being a military dentist would have been.
 
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NADDUCK said:
Preach. More people should consider the route of military THEN dentistry. As an officer I made about 100k a year for four years, and now have the GI Bill that will be worth around 500k. I will graduate dental school debt free and owe the military no further service.

HPSP is not the only way to use the military to pay for school. Plus doing what I did in the military was more rewarding than I believe being a military dentist would have been.
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To be fair not sure I wanna join the military right now after that airstrike
 
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NADDUCK said:
Preach. More people should consider the route of military THEN dentistry. As an officer I made about 100k a year for four years, and now have the GI Bill that will be worth around 500k. I will graduate dental school debt free and owe the military no further service.

HPSP is not the only way to use the military to pay for school. Plus doing what I did in the military was more rewarding than I believe being a military dentist would have been.
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I wasn't fortunate enough to become an officer because I wasn't a citizen but nonetheless, I enlisted as a medic and This gave me direct patient care over 100s of soldiers(how awesome is that gonna look on my personal statement), experience, and self-discipline (people underestimate the power of self-discipline). like you said, if someone finishes a bachelors and then joins as an officer while making bank and maybe get a MS while in (I’ve seen many do this since its paid for with TA and not Gibill) and then apply to dental school is a guaranteed way to graduate dental school debt free. You would think with this stupid amount of benefits and favorability for veterans more would be doing this.
 
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Faris_ said:
- Am not referring to a fresh graduate, am talking about the average dentist midpoint through their career, fresh out of dental school is insignificant compared to the entire career of a dentist. There is no job that has as much job guarantee and comfortable pay as much as a dentist making 6 figures on day 1 after school graduation without the need for any capital and where you can be your own boss a few years after graduation.
- The word success is subjective but the way I see it is any path where any person of any background and income level can just study hard for a few years and become guaranteed a job in the on of the top jobs in the country period is considered success. I don't get the "rich parents" part, personally my parents are still below the poverty line and yes, it would've been great if they could pay for my education too.
- As for the "getting paid while going to school" part.... Am getting paid currently $2K a month that goes directly in my pocket plus tuition and fees to attend school and if accepted into a dental school the first 2.5 years will be paid as well and that's using the GI-bill alone.. after exhausting that I'll tap into Voc-rehab and it will also pay tuition,fees, and living expenses for the remaining of the program no matter how long it takes.. I can even get into a medical school and graduate without paying any tuition and fees in texas if I want to after dental school that because I get 150 CSH from Hazelwood act as a Texas resident. beside this, there's HPSP and numerous scholarships that are given to people with excellent stats and I've heard more than once in this forum about someone getting full ride scholarship or close to it. Am sure there are many other options but I think I made my point.

I came to this country 6 years ago alone with a BS that's worth nothing and $0 in my pocket, how could I have managed to get a MS and almost done getting my second bachelors (spring 2021 graduating) and will get all of dental school paid for and all from US schools while you're wondering how could 4 years of schools be paid for without a lone is one for the books
Click to expand...

Congratulations, I am genuinely happy for you that you found a way in your situation to make this a financially sound decision. Now what you need to realize is that your specific situation is not indicative at all for the majority of dental students. Not everyone will go the military route for various reasons and most certainly wont be granted an HPSP scholarship. In fact very few students will have access to this privilege as its highly competitive. I am a D4 at NYU and none of my classmates got the HPSP scholarship. I think one or two have done the military route(not sure) and that is speaking of roughly 360+ students. You are using examples of very far outliers, the full ride scholarships, (like 2-3% of students) and using that as an argument for why going to dental school is a good decision.

The reality is that for the majority of applicants, they are fed lies about total debt by the ADA where they post only the average ($292k) and do not even factor in the cost of living, other stuff and the interest. Personally I will graduate with around $480k in debt from NYU this May. The total cost of attendance for the graduating class of 2023 will be over $673,000. NYU Dental School Cost Projected at $673,000

For USC, same price. You might say, dont go to these schools. Well lets take a look at Tufts here. 2019-20 total cost of attendance - $124,047. Over four years, thats close to $500k, not including interest and taking into account how much tufts will increase this number per year.
Alot of In-state schools are approaching these numbers fast as well. Where do we draw the line?

Debt is a real thing. It might not affect you to an extent that it will affect the majority of future graduates but lets not dismiss it entirely. If I were an applicant today and did not get into a cheap state school with the HPSP route, then becoming a garbage man would definitely be the smarter choice. Would guarantee a near 6 figure salary without the need for even a college degree.
 
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The government needs to stop giving out unlimited money to student loans to literally everyone or make student debt forgivable. Then then the amount they’ll give out loans will change real quick. The government needs to do strict financial analysis on these loans. If your degree can’t pay for itself in 5-7 years then GTFO. If this happens then useless forever debt provoking degree programs will close or tuition prices will dip to an amount that people can afford for that degree.
 
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lazyindy said:
Not everyone will go the military route for various reasons and most certainly wont be granted an HPSP scholarship.
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I couldn't join the military due to a medical reason, otherwise I would've done HPSP in a heartbeat, and I'm only going 200k in debt. You know costs are too high when people tell you to join the military to afford dental school.
 
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lazyindy said:
Congratulations, I am genuinely happy for you that you found a way in your situation to make this a financially sound decision. Now what you need to realize is that your specific situation is not indicative at all for the majority of dental students. Not everyone will go the military route for various reasons and most certainly wont be granted an HPSP scholarship. In fact very few students will have access to this privilege as its highly competitive. I am a D4 at NYU and none of my classmates got the HPSP scholarship. I think one or two have done the military route(not sure) and that is speaking of roughly 360+ students. You are using examples of very far outliers, the full ride scholarships, (like 2-3% of students) and using that as an argument for why going to dental school is a good decision.

The reality is that for the majority of applicants, they are fed lies about total debt by the ADA where they post only the average ($292k) and do not even factor in the cost of living, other stuff and the interest. Personally I will graduate with around $480k in debt from NYU this May. The total cost of attendance for the graduating class of 2023 will be over $673,000. NYU Dental School Cost Projected at $673,000

For USC, same price. You might say, dont go to these schools. Well lets take a look at Tufts here. 2019-20 total cost of attendance - $124,047. Over four years, thats close to $500k, not including interest and taking into account how much tufts will increase this number per year.
Alot of In-state schools are approaching these numbers fast as well. Where do we draw the line?

Debt is a real thing. It might not affect you to an extent that it will affect the majority of future graduates but lets not dismiss it entirely. If I were an applicant today and did not get into a cheap state school with the HPSP route, then becoming a garbage man would definitely be the smarter choice. Would guarantee a near 6 figure salary without the need for even a college degree.
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You're right, debt is a real problem and is only getting worse and maybe the military shouldn't be the answer to any educational-based financial hardship. With that said, on an individual level the military IS an option for financial relief at the cost of possible physical and mental hardship for which, I believe, the pre-dental population isn't well suited for. I don't won't to get into the analogy of the garbageman cause its getting confusing. I feel this subtopic has run its course and I believe you and people like you who are graduation with crippling debt should continue questioning the reasons why dental school is getting so expensive which doesn't exactly correlate with an increase in dentists' income.
 
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Faris_ said:
You're right, debt is a real problem and is only getting worse and maybe the military shouldn't be the answer to any educational-based financial hardship. With that said, on an individual level the military IS an option for financial relief at the cost of possible physical and mental hardship for which, I believe, the pre-dental population isn't well suited for. I don't won't to get into the analogy of the garbageman cause its getting confusing. I feel this subtopic has run its course and I believe you and people like you who are graduation with crippling debt should continue questioning the reasons why dental school is getting so expensive which doesn't exactly correlate with an increase in dentists' income.
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The answer is right in front of our eyes. The wonderful federal government that guarantees loans to basically anyone. They literally hand these out like candies, lollipops to clueless children (pre-dents). The schools welcome this as they can jack up their tuition rates to however much they please and line the pockets of the predatory deans and shareholders. Profiting off of enslaving young, financial illiterate 20 somethings to decades worth of soul crushing debt all under the guise of 'Dentistry is a fulfilling profession' 'Look! our graduates make six figures!' or my favorite one "Dont think about the money, focus on helping those in need, the money will come". :vomit:.

And on top of tuition, saturation and competition for residency and/or associate spots become intense when you open up new schools like Tuoro. I mean we really needed a new dental school in NY right?

what has the ADA done to address these issues? Absolutely nothing
 
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lol can we all just agree that this financial debate about dentistry will never go away
and let this thread go to rest lol...

people will always complain about money no matter how much or how little they have.
so let's just all agree to disagree

bye felicias
*unwatch*
 
Chocopiezzz said:
lol can we all just agree that this financial debate about dentistry will never go away
and let this thread go to rest lol...

people will always complain about money no matter how much or how little they have.
so let's just all agree to disagree

bye felicias
*unwatch*
Click to expand...

As long as schools keep charging 600k, you're right, the financial debate will never go away.

I think threads like this are important so that anybody considering dentistry as a career gets a heads up on the realities. I wish a thread like this became required reading to apply to dental schools. Instead you have US News out here calling dentistry the #1 career in the world without even considering debt. Pre-dents deserve to see both sides of the coin.
 
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Chocopiezzz said:
lol can we all just agree that this financial debate about dentistry will never go away
and let this thread go to rest lol...

people will always complain about money no matter how much or how little they have.
so let's just all agree to disagree

bye felicias
*unwatch*
Click to expand...
#buriesheadinthesand

4E523711-251A-45D5-8478-A9570620A6DD.gif


Big Hoss
 
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Mr.lightt said:
It truly is a race to the bottom....25$ cleanings at walmart

channel933.iheart.com

Walmart Offers $30 Medical Checkups and $25 Teeth Cleanings | Channel 933

Walmart. The big-box store that competes directly with local businesses may be competing with local doctors, dentists, and even counselors at their new Walmart Health centers.
channel933.iheart.com channel933.iheart.com
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wow, thats frightening! is this profession really going down the tubes? wait until amazon gets their hands in this, then its really over.
 
Mr.lightt said:
It truly is a race to the bottom....25$ cleanings at walmart

channel933.iheart.com

Walmart Offers $30 Medical Checkups and $25 Teeth Cleanings | Channel 933

Walmart. The big-box store that competes directly with local businesses may be competing with local doctors, dentists, and even counselors at their new Walmart Health centers.
channel933.iheart.com channel933.iheart.com
Click to expand...
wow, thats frightening! is this profession really going down the tubes? wait until amazon gets their hands in this, then its really over.
 
Dentistry is being commodotized. You get what you pay for. Dentists are partly to blame with all the advertising, marketing, etc that never existed 30 yrs ago. You want to run your dental practice like a business ... Then accept the fact that you will be competing (not successfully) with the capitalistic big players.
 
2TH MVR said:
Dentistry is being commodotized. You get what you pay for. Dentists are partly to blame with all the advertising, marketing, etc that never existed 30 yrs ago. You want to run your dental practice like a business ... Then accept the fact that you will be competing (not successfully) with the capitalistic big players.
Click to expand...
So there is really no future left for practice owners?!
 
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