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Only on SDN would people have conspiracy theories relating to posters trying to "get rid of potential competition". I literally can't believe how brainwashed everyone on this forum is. You guys are acting like ravenous dogs at trying to get into a 90k job. Every time someone brings up a reasonable fact about why Dentistry might not be a good choice, you guys counter with seemingly more and more insane "reasons".

It's like those one of those TV shows where the contestant believes the sky is purple, and everyone keeps saying "no its blue", and the person responds with seemingly "correct", yet absolutly ludicrous reasons for why they're right. "Have you gotten your eyes checked? Different light reflects different colors. Are you wearing contact lenses? For me, the sky is purple, but if you're wearing contact lenses the sky might appear blue."


You guys are talking about living on 15k a year for the next decade - because "your time will come and you will make it big in dentistry". People here be planning out what kind of cheap food they're going to buy, and what cheap products they're going to use, so that after 20 years of loan payments, they can "hit it big"

Have any of you looked outside?

Literally every other field you'll have a mid-career salary of over 100k (finance, software engineering, banking, marketing, engineering - the list goes on)



Exactly. Like - why the hell are you guys talking about your "master plan to live on 15k" and not about teeth? Not about Oral Health? You know - the ACTUAL reason you should be pursuing the field?


If you guys feel like "its a job where you don't have to worry about being laid off" - thats not exactly true. You'll just go out of business instead. It feels like EVERY single person on here is going into dentistry because they think its Medicine's little brother. Its not. It is quite literally - a different field. If sales isn't your forte - get out now. You are promoting Oral Health. You will be selling all day. "Never stop closing". In dentistry, the term is "case acceptance" - you're selling a treatment plan to the patient that will benefit their oral health. The most successful dentists are the most extraverted ones - people that would have be found in another people-facing job to begin with.


Sometimes I wonder about the population of people that browse and post on SDN...

You have Dentist after Dentist after Dentist warning you to stay away. Dentists saying - if they were to start today, they wouldn't go. You have Dentists writing basically novels telling you straight up - whats wrong with the field. And people keep flocking like rabid hounds - its nuts.

I'm confused - like, are all your parents forcing you guys to be doctors or something? What gives? It's quite literally not normal. MOST people change majors, a couple times - most people switch jobs several times - fields even to find something that suits them. Thats normal. But people on this form have this sort of rabid obsession into locking away their field for the rest of their lives - it's crazy.

Is everyone on here on drugs, and I'm the only one that's not? No seriously - I'm new to SDN, but Jesus Christ - I can't be the only one this is reading this thread with disbelief. Either I'm nuts, or this is a really great physiological example of "groupthink"...

I think you misinterpreted some of the "I can live on 15k" comments. I would like to believe most of us have a passion for dentistry and want to do it for the right reasons. We are just trying to justify that we can do what we love aka dentistry and still survive and get through the tough times the seasoned dentists are warning us about. This thread started because dentists were saying it is not worth it and that you will be better off doing something else. This is simply not true for a lot of us who went through this much trouble to just get accepted. We don't want to sit in cubicles all day and have our lives revolve around turning money into more money and have nothing to show for it other than a fancy new car. Grass is greener.
 
There is a point beyond which money does not increase happiness. Once you have food, shelter, and some comfortable amenities in life such as internet, spending more money will not bring you much more happiness. They've done studies on this. Someone who spends $50K/month is not necessarily happier than someone who spends $3K/month. Instead, it's social connections at that point- Family, friends, etc- that raises happiness levels. This has been researched in great detail. The concept of Hedonic Adaptation is an offshoot of this phenomenon.

It is odd that you would use these studies to defend your reasoning behind a 20K/yr income, considering they have found the income level for the happiness plateau to be significantly higher: anywhere from 65-120K in the US depending on state, methodology, etc.
 
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To add on to this - how do so many pre-dents on this forum (the 19/20 year olds - not the 25 year olds with real world, job experience - you guys are good) know dentistry is their "passion"; their "calling"? Guarantee you every single professor will roll their eyes at you (in their head) if you try that line at an interview. Yes, I am firing shots.

It reeks of people turning the whole "medicine is a calling, you have to be passionate about it" paradigm on its head and applying it to dentistry, yet not realizing the box doesn't quite fit.

The reason why medicine has been called a "calling" in the past is because you have to put up with a lot of ****, and the training is excessively long (especially if you pursue certain fellowships) to the point where if you're just chasing money, you're going to have a very, very unhappy life (why do 50% of physicians regret it and wish they did something else?)

Dentistry in comparison - is pretty much a cakewalk (OMFS excluded). Passion plays a role, yes (you have to like it) - but this fanatical, over the top "IF I DON'T GET INTO DENTAL SCHOOL I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF" attitude I see so much on SDN - where the hell is this coming from? No, seriously - Did a dentist save your life when you were 4 years old? Did you lay your eyes upon your first Oral-B toothbrush at the tender age of 5, and fall in love with the bristles? It's a

I see this coming from a lot of the younger applicants - not so much the older ones - who are fully adjusted to the realities (and pessimism) of working in present day corporate america.

It's the pre-dents fresh out of college (21/22) who take who take 3-4 admission cycles to get in - da ****? (I know this is a very small subset of people. The grass is always greener... You're not missing THAT much)

/rant over. Ignore all this if it doesn't apply to you. If you're offended... well then maybe some of what I just said describes you.

I just needed to vent because sometime I feel like SDN is toxic. Many of the people here are "book-smart", but I am seriously questioning the "street-intelligence" and common sense of the vast majority of the people here....

I read your post because I care about what you have to say. When I said "passion" I was mostly referring to relieving pain and making someone more confident about how they look and feel. Having the impact to improve someone's quality of life. I understand what you mean about using the words passion and calling loosely though. We all know life in dental school and working will suck especially with loans, but being optimistic never hurt anybody. We are blessed to be in the positions we are in.
 
It is odd that you would use these studies to defend your reasoning behind a 20K/yr income, considering they have found the income level for the happiness plateau to be significantly higher: anywhere from 65-120K in the US depending on state, methodology, etc.

Let us not derail this thread with this conversation. The only reason I brought it up here was in response to another poster- to clarify what I had meant. I have written a reply and will respond to you by PM!
 
To add on to this - how do so many pre-dents on this forum (the 19/20 year olds - not the 25 year olds with real world, job experience - you guys are good) know dentistry is their "passion"; their "calling"? Guarantee you every single professor will roll their eyes at you (in their head) if you try that line at an interview. Yes, I am firing shots.

It reeks of people turning the whole "medicine is a calling, you have to be passionate about it" paradigm on its head and applying it to dentistry, yet not realizing the box doesn't quite fit.

The reason why medicine has been called a "calling" in the past is because you have to put up with a lot of ****, and the training is excessively long (especially if you pursue certain fellowships) to the point where if you're just chasing money, you're going to have a very, very unhappy life (why do 50% of physicians regret it and wish they did something else?)

Dentistry in comparison - is pretty much a cakewalk (OMFS excluded). Passion plays a role, yes (you have to like it) - but this fanatical, over the top "IF I DON'T GET INTO DENTAL SCHOOL I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF" attitude I see so much on SDN - where the hell is this coming from? No, seriously - Did a dentist save your life when you were 4 years old? Did you lay your eyes upon your first Oral-B toothbrush at the tender age of 5, and fall in love with the bristles?

I see this coming from a lot of the younger applicants - not so much the older ones - who are fully adjusted to the realities (and pessimism) of working in present day corporate america.

It's the pre-dents fresh out of college (21/22) who take who take 3-4 admission cycles to get in - da f***? (I know this is a very small subset of people. The grass is always greener... You're not missing THAT much)

/rant over. Ignore all this if it doesn't apply to you. If you're offended... well then maybe some of what I just said describes you.

I just needed to vent because sometime I feel like SDN is toxic. Many of the people here are "book-smart", but I am seriously questioning the "street-intelligence" and common sense of the vast majority of the people here....
2 long essay rants in one today, you must have taken your finals already
 
Only on SDN would people have conspiracy theories relating to posters trying to "get rid of potential competition". I literally can't believe how brainwashed everyone on this forum is. You guys are acting like ravenous dogs at trying to get into a 90k job. Every time someone brings up a reasonable fact about why Dentistry might not be a good choice, you guys counter with seemingly more and more insane "reasons".

It's like those one of those TV shows where the contestant believes the sky is purple, and everyone keeps saying "no its blue", and the person responds with seemingly "correct", yet absolutly ludicrous reasons for why they're right. "Have you gotten your eyes checked? Different light reflects different colors. Are you wearing contact lenses? For me, the sky is purple, but if you're wearing contact lenses the sky might appear blue."


You guys are talking about living on 15k a year for the next decade - because "your time will come and you will make it big in dentistry". People here be planning out what kind of cheap food they're going to buy, and what cheap products they're going to use, so that after 20 years of loan payments, they can "hit it big"

Have any of you looked outside?

Literally every other field you'll have a mid-career salary of over 100k (finance, software engineering, banking, marketing, engineering - the list goes on)



Exactly. Like - why the hell are you guys talking about your "master plan to live on 15k" and not about teeth? Not about Oral Health? You know - the ACTUAL reason you should be pursuing the field?


If you guys feel like "its a job where you don't have to worry about being laid off" - thats not exactly true. You'll just go out of business instead. It feels like EVERY single person on here is going into dentistry because they think its Medicine's little brother. Its not. It is quite literally - a different field. If sales isn't your forte - get out now. You are promoting Oral Health. You will be selling all day. "Never stop closing". In dentistry, the term is "case acceptance" - you're selling a treatment plan to the patient that will benefit their oral health. The most successful dentists are the most extraverted ones - people that would have be found in another people-facing job to begin with.


Sometimes I wonder about the population of people that browse and post on SDN...

You have Dentist after Dentist after Dentist warning you to stay away. Dentists saying - if they were to start today, they wouldn't go. You have Dentists writing basically novels telling you straight up - whats wrong with the field. And people keep flocking like rabid hounds - its nuts.

I'm confused - like, are all your parents forcing you guys to be doctors or something? What gives? It's quite literally not normal. MOST people change majors, a couple times - most people switch jobs several times - switch fields even - to find something that suits them. Thats normal. But people on this form have this sort of rabid obsession into locking away their field for the rest of their lives - it's crazy.

Is everyone on here on drugs, and I'm the only one that's not? No seriously - I'm new to SDN, but Jesus Christ - I can't be the only one this is reading this thread with disbelief. Either I'm nuts, or this is a really great physiological example of "groupthink"...


So, it's ok for you to go to dental school given the "dentist after dentist" telling us not to but it's not ok for us??? As for the 15k, we said 20k and I think the disbelief with that is just that people that live in high cost of living areas just can't understand how much less expensive things are around the country.
 
"So, it's ok for you to go to dental school given the "dentist after dentist" telling us not to but it's not ok for us??? As for the 15k, we said 20k and I think the disbelief with that is just that people that live in high cost of living areas just can't understand how much less expensive things are around the country."
Unbelievable the exact same kind of rhetoric that I hear ( and write myself some year before I am ashamed to admit ) by French dental student. Yes you can live with 15K or 20K in the country IF and only IF you are single and do not plan to have a family. As soon as you start thinking about living the high life ( like buying a car, or going out in vacation, or just stop working ) reality will hit hard.
I work in the country for 2 years in France (which is a nicer country than the US I would say), it become lame very fast. Fun at the beginning (not making a lot as a dentist in the country beat no making anything as a student in the city) but after one year knowing that all the following years will be more of the same make things less exstatic.

More too the point if you are happy living in the country with this kind of money why but why do you bother to do dental studies ? Just come to Cambodia and teach English. Natural English speaker have to pass a kind of certification ( 30 hours of course ) than they can teach in School and private. You can aim at 12 to 24K a year easy. And you need only 500$ a month to live the kind of life you could have for 1000$+ in the us.
 
To add on to this - how do so many pre-dents on this forum (the 19/20 year olds - not the 25 year olds with real world, job experience - you guys are good) know dentistry is their "passion"; their "calling"? Guarantee you every single professor will roll their eyes at you (in their head) if you try that line at an interview. Yes, I am firing shots.

It reeks of people turning the whole "medicine is a calling, you have to be passionate about it" paradigm on its head and applying it to dentistry, yet not realizing the box doesn't quite fit.

The reason why medicine has been called a "calling" in the past is because you have to put up with a lot of ****, and the training is excessively long (especially if you pursue certain fellowships) to the point where if you're just chasing money, you're going to have a very, very unhappy life (why do 50% of physicians regret it and wish they did something else?)

Dentistry in comparison - is pretty much a cakewalk (OMFS excluded). Passion plays a role, yes (you have to like it) - but this fanatical, over the top "IF I DON'T GET INTO DENTAL SCHOOL I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF" attitude I see so much on SDN - where the hell is this coming from? No, seriously - Did a dentist save your life when you were 4 years old? Did you lay your eyes upon your first Oral-B toothbrush at the tender age of 5, and fall in love with the bristles?

I see this coming from a lot of the younger applicants - not so much the older ones - who are fully adjusted to the realities (and pessimism) of working in present day corporate america.

It's the pre-dents fresh out of college (21/22) who take who take 3-4 admission cycles to get in - da f***? (I know this is a very small subset of people. The grass is always greener... You're not missing THAT much)

/rant over. Ignore all this if it doesn't apply to you. If you're offended... well then maybe some of what I just said describes you.

I just needed to vent because sometime I feel like SDN is toxic. Many of the people here are "book-smart", but I am seriously questioning the "street-intelligence" and common sense of the vast majority of the people here....

Some have a real passion for cutting Class 2 preps and doing scaling and root planing. LOL. A dentist is basically a tooth mechanic. Sorry to trivialize the profession but sometimes we take ourselves too seriously. The work is not fun or rewarding unless you are volunteering. You are not helping people you are giving them a service and if you don't do it well, then you will hear about it. Traditionally there have been 3 benefits of dentistry. Autonomy, Time to spend doing other things and a solid income. Corporations are working to destroy all three of those.
 
Some have a real passion for cutting Class 2 preps and doing scaling and root planing. LOL. A dentist is basically a tooth mechanic. Sorry to trivialize the profession but sometimes we take ourselves too seriously. The work is not fun or rewarding unless you are volunteering. You are not helping people you are giving them a service and if you don't do it well, then you will hear about it. Traditionally there have been 3 benefits of dentistry. Autonomy, Time to spend doing other things and a solid income. Corporations are working to destroy all three of those.
Couldn't agree with this more. Medicine is a heck of a lot more interesting. A Class 2 or class 3 is absoultely UNinteresting. Love how so many of my classmates try to act like they are doing open heart surgery when we are practicing our perio cleanings. It is a total joke, and they take it more seriously than any private practice dentist I've ever spoken to.

Ya I went into dentistry purely because of those 3 things. That's exactly why I picked it over medicine. Looks like the "solid income" will be the thing that is MOST destroyed by corps.
 
"Ya I went into dentistry purely because of those 3 things. That's exactly why I picked it over medicine. Looks like the "solid income" will be the thing that is MOST destroyed by corps."

Well depend if you want to have the classic private practice scheme is you will have to lower your economic expectation. Path that could lead to more solid revenue should be ( looking to what happen in Spain with corporate blooming everywhere)

- Do something else
- Go into teaching. More dentist means that they are desperate to distinguish themselves from their competitors so HUGE demand for every kind of formation. Private formation are also blooming in Spain. One the Spanish dentist who postulated to work in my hospital was 27 was unable to take in charge emergency but had a master of implantology which cost her several 10K
- Invest in corporate practice or start one. If you can make several dentist work for you and take a share of their benefices you end up making a lot.
- Specialize in something that few people can do or become one of the best at something many can do ( this allow to do teaching )
- Continue your study after dental school in a peripheral field of the profession. The global market volume of the dentistry will be the same, it just that the part going presently to the dentist will be smaller due to the corporate and insurance company taking a bigger share and the number of dentist being more important. But the demand for dentist with engineer, pharmaceutical, law, communication , ect degree will be more or less the same.
 
Some of you guys should ask some patients whether they think you charging them hundreds of dollars for a crown is "helping" them. All you are doing is basically working in government slavery to pay off your loan to the greedy dental school. What a joke.
 
Traditionally there have been 3 benefits of dentistry. Autonomy, Time to spend doing other things and a solid income. Corporations are working to destroy all three of those.
How large of a stranglehold do you think corporations will have in the future? Do you think it will go the way of retail pharmacy, where mom and pop pharmacies have largely died out in favor of chains like Walgreens/CVS?

Is it usually the retiring dentists who are selling their practices to corporate chains? Do they feel no moral obligation to instead sell to a young dentist, even if they might not get as much money? :/ Or are chains popping up next to established practices and stealing patients away?
 
How large of a stranglehold do you think corporations will have in the future? Do you think it will go the way of retail pharmacy, where mom and pop pharmacies have largely died out in favor of chains like Walgreens/CVS?

Is it usually the retiring dentists who are selling their practices to corporate chains? Do they feel no moral obligation to instead sell to a young dentist, even if they might not get as much money? :/ Or are chains popping up next to established practices and stealing patients away?
I think it will. These corps can offer better hours for patients to come in, they can offer lower prices due to bulk purchasing and economies of scale, and can advertise much more as well.

Retiring dentists are selling their practices to corporate chains recently from what I've heard.
 
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Some of you guys should ask some patients whether they think you charging them hundreds of dollars for a crown is "helping" them. All you are doing is basically working in government slavery to pay off your loan to the greedy dental school. What a joke.

Don't you think relieving pain is helping them? Better to have a crown on it now then lose the tooth altogether later on and have to get an extraction. People use their teeth everyday and if it hurts they are going to look for help regardless of the cost. Besides most people do not understand the importance of dentistry to begin with.
 
I think it will. These corps can offer better hours for patients to come in, they can offer lower prices due to bulk purchasing and economies of scale, and can advertise much more as well.

Retiring dentists are selling their practices to corporate chains recently from what I've heard.

Yes and they can also have a less ethical behavior, this is the role of the practice manager. In case of problem the one mainly responsible is the dentist not the corporate. Dentist have problem you change him/her.
I suppose that the practice could be held responsible in some case but thing is corporate are very good at keeping their hand clean on this side.
For what I see in Europe over treatment and bad quality is a common thread in corporate practice, this of course because it is the more lucrative way to go.
One private practice do it in case of problem it close, not so true for corporate. Can happen but they are fare more tolerant to it.
 
Don't you think relieving pain is helping them? Better to have a crown on it now then lose the tooth altogether later on and have to get an extraction. People use their teeth everyday and if it hurts they are going to look for help regardless of the cost. Besides most people do not understand the importance of dentistry to begin with.

Yes that the point, they do not understand dentistry, that is way corporate which is a bad option for the middle long term can strive
 
Yes that the point, they do not understand dentistry, that is way corporate which is a bad option for the middle long term can strive

Ahh okay corporations are the root of the issue. Your name is confusing btw. It says MD/PhD but you are on a pre-dental thread? I thought the ortho in your name stood for orthodontist lol. Do you just know a lot about the dental field?
 
Ahh okay corporations are the root of the issue. Your name is confusing btw. It says MD/PhD but you are on a pre-dental thread? I thought the ortho in your name stood for orthodontist lol. Do you just know a lot about the dental field?
I think he said he was a dentist that practices in France or something.
 
How large of a stranglehold do you think corporations will have in the future? Do you think it will go the way of retail pharmacy, where mom and pop pharmacies have largely died out in favor of chains like Walgreens/CVS?

Is it usually the retiring dentists who are selling their practices to corporate chains? Do they feel no moral obligation to instead sell to a young dentist, even if they might not get as much money? :/ Or are chains popping up next to established practices and stealing patients away?

Retiring dentists are selling out to corporate because young students like you can't get loans from the bank because of all your student debt. Dentistry is an intimate profession, it will never become like Pharmacy. Your value is in being established and trustworthy. Many people will pay for that. That's why dentists can be so successful in their 50's because they've build up so much good will over the past 25 years. The problem with chains is that the dentists have short attention spans and want to do something else every few years. Good will is like compounding interest. You really want to get open and established as fast as possible in order to take advantage of it.
 
Only on SDN would people have conspiracy theories relating to posters trying to "get rid of potential competition". I literally can't believe how brainwashed everyone on this forum is. You guys are acting like ravenous dogs at trying to get into a 90k job. Every time someone brings up a reasonable fact about why Dentistry might not be a good choice, you guys counter with seemingly more and more insane "reasons".

It's like those one of those TV shows where the contestant believes the sky is purple, and everyone keeps saying "no its blue", and the person responds with seemingly "correct", yet absolutly ludicrous reasons for why they're right. "Have you gotten your eyes checked? Different light reflects different colors. Are you wearing contact lenses? For me, the sky is purple, but if you're wearing contact lenses the sky might appear blue."


You guys are talking about living on 15k a year for the next decade - because "your time will come and you will make it big in dentistry". People here be planning out what kind of cheap food they're going to buy, and what cheap products they're going to use, so that after 20 years of loan payments, they can "hit it big"

Have any of you looked outside?

Literally every other field you'll have a mid-career salary of over 100k (finance, software engineering, banking, marketing, engineering - the list goes on)



Exactly. Like - why the hell are you guys talking about your "master plan to live on 15k" and not about teeth? Not about Oral Health? You know - the ACTUAL reason you should be pursuing the field?


If you guys feel like "its a job where you don't have to worry about being laid off" - thats not exactly true. You'll just go out of business instead. It feels like EVERY single person on here is going into dentistry because they think its Medicine's little brother. Its not. It is quite literally - a different field. If sales isn't your forte - get out now. You are promoting Oral Health. You will be selling all day. "Never stop closing". In dentistry, the term is "case acceptance" - you're selling a treatment plan to the patient that will benefit their oral health. The most successful dentists are the most extraverted ones - people that would have be found in another people-facing job to begin with.


Sometimes I wonder about the population of people that browse and post on SDN...

You have Dentist after Dentist after Dentist warning you to stay away. Dentists saying - if they were to start today, they wouldn't go. You have Dentists writing basically novels telling you straight up - whats wrong with the field. And people keep flocking like rabid hounds - its nuts.

I'm confused - like, are all your parents forcing you guys to be doctors or something? What gives? It's quite literally not normal. MOST people change majors, a couple times - most people switch jobs several times - switch fields even - to find something that suits them. Thats normal. But people on this form have this sort of rabid obsession into locking away their field for the rest of their lives - it's crazy.

Is everyone on here on drugs, and I'm the only one that's not? No seriously - I'm new to SDN, but Jesus Christ - I can't be the only one this is reading this thread with disbelief. Either I'm nuts, or this is a really great physiological example of "groupthink"...

It is NOT true that every other field has mid career salary of 100K. Plus, those jobs are prone to firing employees. Dentistry and the medical field is much more of a hedge against this. The only safe space for job stability is teaching and medicine, and teachers make terrible money starting out (tho pensions are great).

Furthermore, all dentists that I have talked to recommended going to Dental school. The same is not true with physicians.
 
Anyone else think what the OP says might be true in the next few years?

ECU, Roseman, Midwestern-Ill, LECOM, UNE, ATSU-Missouri, and University of Utah still haven't graduated their first class yet and people are already complaining about saturation..

Touro is also planning to open in 2016.
 
Anyone else think what the OP says might be true in the next few years?

ECU, Roseman, Midwestern-Ill, LECOM, UNE, ATSU-Missouri, and University of Utah still haven't graduated their first class yet and people are already complaining about saturation..

Touro is also planning to open in 2016.

Isn't the # of yearly students enrolled capped?
At least it's harder for foreign dentists to crack the US system.
In Canada, foreign Dentists can write the equivalency exam/board exams directly! The saturation concern is real up in here.
 
Isn't the # of yearly students enrolled capped?
At least it's harder for foreign dentists to crack the US system.
In Canada, foreign Dentists can write the equivalency exam/board exams directly! The saturation concern is real up in here.

Nope. Its a free market. Schools can open all the want. It is just harder to open a dental school than other types of schools because of all the costs to keep it running.

Is it saturation? I think it's distribution. If it was truly saturated there wouldn't be undeserved areas.
Obviously easier said than done, I just wanted to point it out.

Still. I think we can expect salaries to go no where but down due to insurance, saturation, and squeezing of the middle class. Also, the debt that dental students have to take on is increasing every year..
 
Nope. Its a free market. Schools can open all the want. It is just harder to open a dental school than other types of schools because of all the costs to keep it running.



Still. I think we can expect salaries to go no where but down due to insurance, saturation, and squeezing of the middle class. Also, the debt that dental students have to take on is increasing every year..
I do think that on the back end of your career you will blow up 55-70 yo. But 20-55 is gonna suck balls.
 
I admit I didn't read each comment so Im not sure if this angle has been covered. However, I graduated in may 2015, owing <300k and started working in june. Year one I am contracted for 160k plus benefits at 35 hours a week (4 days a week, 3 day weekends), I personally feel very satisfied when pts walk in with severe pain and the lidocaine alleviates their distress completely and they just give you that look, or when young pts come in thinking their life is over with a fractured anterior tooth only to be astonished by the esthetics of nanofilled comps or e-max. ER surgeons deal with patients dying on a regular basis, and I have a few friends in 1st year residencies at the moment and they are very very stressed. The baby boomer dentists will be retiring soon. I do agree that now more than ever being a general dentist has its perks as more and more are referring less and less. I think the biggest trap MAY be spending additional money to specialize only to pigeon hole yourself. Also I dont live by any moose's. Id rate my life as 10/10 at the moment.
 
Yea by living under a bridge.

fedba91360cf41152d340f22d2450a4e.jpg
 
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I admit I didn't read each comment so Im not sure if this angle has been covered. However, I graduated in may 2015, owing <300k and started working in june. Year one I am contracted for 160k plus benefits at 35 hours a week (4 days a week, 3 day weekends), I personally feel very satisfied when pts walk in with severe pain and the lidocaine alleviates their distress completely and they just give you that look, or when young pts come in thinking their life is over with a fractured anterior tooth only to be astonished by the esthetics of nanofilled comps or e-max. ER surgeons deal with patients dying on a regular basis, and I have a few friends in 1st year residencies at the moment and they are very very stressed. The baby boomer dentists will be retiring soon. I do agree that now more than ever being a general dentist has its perks as more and more are referring less and less. I think the biggest trap MAY be spending additional money to specialize only to pigeon hole yourself. Also I dont live by any moose's. Id rate my life as 10/10 at the moment.

An associate or corporate dentistry?
 
I admit I didn't read each comment so Im not sure if this angle has been covered. However, I graduated in may 2015, owing <300k and started working in june. Year one I am contracted for 160k plus benefits at 35 hours a week (4 days a week, 3 day weekends), I personally feel very satisfied when pts walk in with severe pain and the lidocaine alleviates their distress completely and they just give you that look, or when young pts come in thinking their life is over with a fractured anterior tooth only to be astonished by the esthetics of nanofilled comps or e-max. ER surgeons deal with patients dying on a regular basis, and I have a few friends in 1st year residencies at the moment and they are very very stressed. The baby boomer dentists will be retiring soon. I do agree that now more than ever being a general dentist has its perks as more and more are referring less and less. I think the biggest trap MAY be spending additional money to specialize only to pigeon hole yourself. Also I dont live by any moose's. Id rate my life as 10/10 at the moment.
10/10 life rating 🙂, sounds pretty good to me, with a 160k+ salary.
 
I admit I didn't read each comment so Im not sure if this angle has been covered. However, I graduated in may 2015, owing <300k and started working in june. Year one I am contracted for 160k plus benefits at 35 hours a week (4 days a week, 3 day weekends), I personally feel very satisfied when pts walk in with severe pain and the lidocaine alleviates their distress completely and they just give you that look, or when young pts come in thinking their life is over with a fractured anterior tooth only to be astonished by the esthetics of nanofilled comps or e-max. ER surgeons deal with patients dying on a regular basis, and I have a few friends in 1st year residencies at the moment and they are very very stressed. The baby boomer dentists will be retiring soon. I do agree that now more than ever being a general dentist has its perks as more and more are referring less and less. I think the biggest trap MAY be spending additional money to specialize only to pigeon hole yourself. Also I dont live by any moose's. Id rate my life as 10/10 at the moment.
Awesome post!
One question though, is it moose's or meese? (A la goose/geese)
 
Anyone else think what the OP says might be true in the next few years?

ECU, Roseman, Midwestern-Ill, LECOM, UNE, ATSU-Missouri, and University of Utah still haven't graduated their first class yet and people are already complaining about saturation..

Touro is also planning to open in 2016.

Roseman graduated their first class last year I believe, and the University of Utah's class size was just 20 until last year as far as I know (now increasing to 37). Please consider that Utah had a long-standing agreement with Creighton to reserve 20 seats for Utah residents for decades. Now that Utah has its own school, they basically just moved those seats back home and are now adding 17 more.
 
I started to realize all of this during dental school, but my dumb pride was too big and wild to let me quit then.
I don't dislike dentistry; but, as you say, I dislike, the state of things very much--which really, it's the state of all of America. The goal is to monopolize every industry; make all the citizens their slaves without calling it such. Long gone are days when dentists payed off their debt in as little as 5 years and owned a practice of their own and live more than comfortably. A couple of wall-streets heads decided to capitalize on that....and now, here we are...corporate take-over...backed by banks and Congress.

I do sometimes greatly wish I had pursued my dream of being an artist and writer and have been content--at least I wouldn't feel so burden with so much debt.
 
I started to realize all of this during dental school, but my dumb pride was too big and wild to let me quit then.
I don't dislike dentistry; but, as you say, I dislike, the state of things very much--which really, it's the state of all of America. The goal is to monopolize every industry; make all the citizens their slaves without calling it such. Long gone are days when dentists payed off their debt in as little as 5 years and owned a practice of their own and live more than comfortably. A couple of wall-streets heads decided to capitalize on that....and now, here we are...corporate take-over...backed by banks and Congress.

I do sometimes greatly wish I had pursued my dream of being an artist and writer and have been content--at least I wouldn't feel so burden with so much debt.
At least as a dentist you can add a lobster and steak dinner to your debt rather than barely being able to afford ramen noodles as an artist/writer lol.
 
I started to realize all of this during dental school, but my dumb pride was too big and wild to let me quit then.
I don't dislike dentistry; but, as you say, I dislike, the state of things very much--which really, it's the state of all of America. The goal is to monopolize every industry; make all the citizens their slaves without calling it such. Long gone are days when dentists payed off their debt in as little as 5 years and owned a practice of their own and live more than comfortably. A couple of wall-streets heads decided to capitalize on that....and now, here we are...corporate take-over...backed by banks and Congress.

I do sometimes greatly wish I had pursued my dream of being an artist and writer and have been content--at least I wouldn't feel so burden with so much debt.

Hey, that's why you went into it, because it's an art and a science! I've also made an observation that most dentists have some art hobby, be it pottery/painting/photography/or even waxing (no kidding, there is a group that meets to wax teeth 😀).
 
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I started to realize all of this during dental school, but my dumb pride was too big and wild to let me quit then.
I don't dislike dentistry; but, as you say, I dislike, the state of things very much--which really, it's the state of all of America. The goal is to monopolize every industry; make all the citizens their slaves without calling it such. Long gone are days when dentists payed off their debt in as little as 5 years and owned a practice of their own and live more than comfortably. A couple of wall-streets heads decided to capitalize on that....and now, here we are...corporate take-over...backed by banks and Congress.

I do sometimes greatly wish I had pursued my dream of being an artist and writer and have been content--at least I wouldn't feel so burden with so much debt.

I still wonder what is the best path to take in the modern day education system. The education bubble that we are in makes all fields saturated, high debt, and high interest rate.

I don't think dentistry is quite worth it anymore unless you can go for cheap.

Dental school takes 4 years and 300k+ debt (interest accrues in school and tuition rises every year too)

Here is a thread that goes into the calculations of graduating with 400k debt:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/read-before-applying-to-private-schools.1107045/

That is 10 years of poverty before you pay off your debt. Then you gotta buy a practice in which you gotta go through it all again.

If you buy your practice half way, then you will probably be 600k+ in debt.

The financial stress of becoming a dentist in these modern times is a killer.

Don't forget you probably have to go rural to have a successful practice too.

I wonder what is a better path to take as a young individual.

Go to the best state school you can go to and major in computer science/nursing/accounting debt free vs. 4 years undergrad + 4 years of dental school + 400k debt

Computer science/nursing/accounting majors can make good money in their 20s and 30s without any financial stress. They are also free to move and work anywhere they want (don't have to go rural or geographically restricted). Since they are debt-free, they are not really tied to their jobs. If they hate where they work, they are free to just quit and work somewhere else until they find a place where they love to work.

These fields also caters to people with ambition too.

Computer science majors can go do their own start up.

Accounting majors can get their CPA and open their own firm, get their mba and go into high finance/consulting, or climb the corporate ladder to CFO level.

Nursing majors can get their NP (while working full-time too, no opportunity cost like dental school) and specialize in specialties like psychiatry.

Since they don't have to go through 4 years of dental school and incur 400k debt, they start making money faster and start saving for retirement faster.

They can also invest in real estate and start their own side business if they want to too. If they fail, they will be okay because they can just declare bankruptcy and walk away. You can't say the same with dentist locked down by 400k+ student loans.

They only con is that you have to give up the doctor title and the prestige that comes with it.

I think dentistry might be the better path in your 40's but do you really want to go through that stress in your 20's and 30's to get there? I think it is much better to live stress free and enjoy life in your 20's and 30's.


If we are debating medicine vs. dentistry, I would say medicine. The supply of doctor is controlled by the number of residencies which is tied to government funding. That means medicine can never really get saturated unless they increase suddenly the number of residencies available. Medicine is unlike other college majors and professional schools because they are totally unaffected by the education bubble. Sure the school prices has risen a lot, but as long as the number of graduates is less than the number of residencies, they will be okay.

PSLF is also another reason to choose medicine over dentistry. You don't really have to look at the finances with PSLF. You can just focus on being a good clinician and not worry so much about student loans or whether your practices fails or not.

The final reason to choose medicine over dentistry is that in America, everyone is required to have health insurance (unless you want to be penalized by the government). This means you have just about an unlimited supply of patients. You can't say the same about dentistry. In dentistry, you will have to fighting other dentists and corporations for patients.
 
Personally I feel like accounting and comp sci would bore me to death. Nursing would have been cool, but I had the mindset of being a dentist since high school. I also wouldnt call those jobs stress free. Although financial stress maybe minimal, the stress of not doing what I want (dentistry) and being stuck for the rest of my life with a job I dislike is much worse.
 
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Nope. DOs aren't real doctors. Everyone knows that if you want a real doctor to treat you, you go see an MD.
It's kind of like how DMDs aren't real dentists. Everyone knows that if you need an extraction, or a cavity filled, you go see a DDS.

I think it is more like dentists aren't real doctors. At least that's what my family members often joke about...
 
I think it is more like dentists aren't real doctors. At least that's what my family members often joke about...

Dentists are so real doctors. Now, an argument can be made that they are not physicians technically speaking, kind of like optometrists or pharmacists.