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My joke meter is broken. I should get off sdn and write my papers
Do NOT go into Dentistry - Trust me it is SATURATED
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funnily, no one in my entire family (aunts, uncles, parents, cousins) are doctors (PHD, MD, DMD, etc). I will be the first.
I think deep down MD look down on dentists. The only way to make them respect us is if we make more money than them..
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I think deep down some MDs look down on most every other profession. Which makes me look down on them. That's a sad perspective
Not sure the official data on this, so I welcome additional comments. When I was in my 3rd year I was seriously considering specializing. I was in the top chunk of my class and didn't mind being a student longer. So here are my thoughts on why I didn't choose to apply to specialties :
1. You lose a lot of the variability throughout the day. As an endo, every single day for the rest of your career will involve and endodontic procedure/diagnosis. Granted much variability exists between one rct and another, but its still ALWAYS endo.
2. You are somewhat at the mercy of the general dentist. Ie. I enjoyed oral surgery in school and heavily considered it as a career. However since graduation ive extracted ~250 teeth and referred maybe 4 (by choice, they looked like headaches I was EAGER to pass 'down the line'. I've referred zero endo. In other words, with continuing education the general dentist is now able to expand his toolbelt so vastly that most referrals could be more so to avoid a 'hot potatoe' rather than because of lack of experience.
General dentists are doing complex rotary endo, wisdom tooth removal, implantology, soft tissue grafting, pediatrics etc.
Last week I was visited at my office by an endodontist in the area, who I went to school with... He was giving me referral forms and, during the workweek, taking time out of his practice to come ask me for referrals. It was somewhat sad as I was thinking, I will refer you the endos I cannot possibly do, but thats all.
3. You ~must live in or near an urban area. Once you are specialized the range of procedures you perform diminishes vastly, to fill your schedule you need a higher volume of patients in the geographic area. For me, my wife and I prefer a more rural setting, where specializing would involve much traveling.
4. Additional school, additional debt. And you will typically wind up at the general dentists door passing out your card.
5. Possible hospital work environment.
6. General Dentists typically are more involved with each additional patient/ closer relationship
Pros of Specializing
Typically more money
Typically more prestige
Typically more personal time
Exciting, rewarding procedures
Its definitely not BAD to specialize, but if you are motivated to expand your general knowledge, if you enjoy a VAST range of variability throughout the workday, if you prefer a less urban environment, and the doctor/patient relationship is important to you, give great consideration to general dentistry.
-Boxes
S
schmoob
I actually know a number of MDs who are jealous of dentists. One of my MD friends was actually considering dental school after she paid $140 for her son to get his teeth cleaned! She was bitter and got over it eventually.
We shouldn't generalize though. I'm sure many of us know arrogant physicians, physicians who respect dentists, and physicians who, if given the opportunity, would choose dentistry if they had the chance to do it over again.
We shouldn't generalize though. I'm sure many of us know arrogant physicians, physicians who respect dentists, and physicians who, if given the opportunity, would choose dentistry if they had the chance to do it over again.
MD's don't give a f**** about dentists. Plain and simple.. I hate them
.....and yep, I'm going general. You sold me.
Douchebag MD's house is on fire. Firefighter immediately arrives to the scene.
Douchebag MD to firefighter: "Hurry up and save my house you overpaid underworked person."
You guys spent way too much time worrying about what other people think of you and not enough time being awesome.
T
torontopharm
I've heard discriminatory things mostly from older/retired docs. They seemed to be quick to point out that Dentists aren't "real" doctors.
The younger docs in my experience are very positive and receptive to Dentistry.
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The term “doctor” is derived from the Latin verb docere, which means “to teach.” So the real doctors are actually Ph.Ds.
We teach oral health. All my insecurities about being a real doctor are now gone
That's a sad perspective indeed. My girlfriend is an MD. Trust me, once you are out of dental school and they are out of medical school almost no one is comparing genital sizes anymore.
Musician here. Being a broke and starving artist takes the passion and enjoyment out of the art pretty quickly. It is difficult to concentrate on being an artist when you are worried about paying the bills or repairing your car.
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you think that's crazy, I chose my career on the flip of a coin - heads (dentistry) or tails (janitor).
Sorry you didn't get tails 🙁 Not only are you not a real doctor but you'd never have to worry about saturation as a janitor.
I'm still confused why there are MDs getting a kick out of telling dentists they're not important. Pretty sure no one picked their career based off what MDs thought but...
I've never heard anyone doing this.
Are you sure you don't just have a persecution complex?
If you disregard the grumpy old docs, im sure an overwhelming majority of new docs don't have these anti-dentist sentiments. I don't see the point in taking time out just to disrespect a person for how he/she chose to make a living...
I would advise you to look again. It is at least "moderately competitive", if not more toward the competitive end of the spectrum. Also, as someone stated around 25% of programs are 4 years.
I heard it is becoming one of the most desired specialties now. The acronym my friend used was ADORE instead of the one I always hear ROAD.
This has got to be the biggest horse crap I have seen written here so far. I am going to tell you, you sound like a whiny little brat encouraging these kids not to go into Dentistry because you are not enjoying it yourself. I am a 29 year old pre-dental student who wants to become a Dentist. I have been through many facets of the "real world" and in many positions in different companies. Saturation is everywhere, business/IT/law EVERYWHERE. Your whining about the industry looks really puny compared to all the other professions. Oh boo hoo associates will only earn 90-120k, seriously? Who told you to take out so much student loans? There are Dental schools with tuition way lower than others, no on forced you to pay that much. Also don't tell people to go into Medicine just because they get paid more and difference in schooling, that is probably why you hate Dentistry because your eyes were on the prize and not the work. You most likely have no business sense and only real world experience was when you started working as a Dentist. Being a Dentist is freaking awesome, where else can you just pick up and go and utilize your skills almost anywhere in the world and still have job security?? You can be an amazing Entrepreneur with your Dental education and open up multiple locations. You know who has a right to complain? Law students, they are facing a horrible job market and they can't just take their skills anywhere. Trust me I have been in the job market and everything else really sucks, you have to deal with major politics in most environments that make you miserable as ****. You have to deal with kissing ass and quotas to earn or risk of losing everything you worked for. You just DON'T know how it is on the other side and that is why I chose to become a Dentist, I absolutely love the aspect of oral health, working with my hands and being a respect professional that helps people.
People use ROAD or ROADE (E for Emergency Medicine) on these boards, but this is probably 10-15 years old. Radiology and Anes are no longer competitive specialties students want to get into. Last year, for US allo students that only applied to one specialty the match rate for Rads and Anes were 97-98%. Optho and Derm are still very competitive, for mainly the lifestyle and adequate salary.
Emergency medicine is not a lifestyle specialty by any means. You work less hours, but you have to work swing shifts/nights, holidays, weekends, etc. Every shift can also be demanding and high burnout. As long as you know what you're getting into, EM is a great specialty for the obvious benefits (hours, high per hr salary, flexibility, no call, etc).
That is exactly the opposite of what all of my physicians have said and our family friends that are MD's, they all said that if they had it to do over, they would have gone into dentistry. Even my orthopedic surgeon and cardiologist said when we were talking about school, etc. said that.
That's why I said some. Maybe I know too many pre-meds here (I know, pre-med ≠ MD) but you can tell they have some kind of complex. But it's good that the ones you know don't look down on people 🙂
Oh, yes, big mr. pre-dent, tell me again how awesome practicing dentistry is...give me a break. If you still feel the same way after year 5 of practicing, then you have the right to say all that. And if you do feel the same way after five years great for you. I don't think any of the practicing dentists on this thread are rooting against any of you pre-dents. However, at least I wish that I would have known some of the negative aspects of dentistry before I sealed my fate. Take what you read add it to your pros/cons list and move the hell on.
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Thank you. *High Five* 29yr old lowly pre-dent here, I will turn 30 the day after I start D-school, been around the block a couple times. Your comment about Dentistry being a lot of people's only real world experience, I feel is accurate. I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing, I'm sure most of this kids will go on to be great dentists and will do great things. However, I do feel we have a culture that for a generation or 2 now has told us "if you go to school and get a good education - you will be set". Then we follow this path, hit the real world after 20 years of academia and few 100G in debt and thinking life is about to be grand and then we realize how hard the working world can be.
I will say that when I came back to school I was thoroughly impressed with how smart, focused and serious a lot the 19-22 year old students were. I was very impressed with a lot of my younger classmates.
On nursing, I'll leave that to the friendly nurses over at allnurses.com:
Don't go into nursing: http://allnurses.com/pre-nursing-student/be-aware-dont-495840.html
On accounting, here are a couple of good threads:
Think twice before you get that accounting degree: http://www.city-data.com/forum/work-employment/1004020-think-twice-before-you-get-accounting.html
If you could go back, would you major in accounting again? https://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/1t3xef/if_you_could_go_back_would_you_major_in/
I am a web designer right now making a good salary and living a comfortable life. I like what I do, enjoy my job, get along with my colleagues, and my company is fantastic. But I am not in charge, there is limited growth potential, and I will never earn what a dentist can. Most importantly though, I don't do anything which impacts a person's life. The importance of work which comes from treating human beings is not a part of my daily experience.
Anyone can start any business, that doesn't mean they will be successful. You are more likely to succeed with a dental practice than a tech startup.
Becoming the CFO of a major company is typically far more competitive and difficult than becoming or being a dentist.
Yes, and their wages are dropping as they become more abundant. I suspect that this current NP landscape is a bubble just waiting to burst. How many NPs do we really need?
They also make less money. They have little or no autonomy in many regions, and in those that they do it is limited to a very narrow scope of practice. How would you like to write an Rx for a sinus infection 20 times per day?
There's nothing stopping a dentist from investing in real estate. Many do actually.
Make less money, still go through a lot of schooling, have a very limited scope of practice, a lot less autonomy, a market which is increasingly saturated with NPs.
You won't enjoy your 40's and 50's as much if you don't work for it in your 20's and 30's. That principle applies across all career fields. You want to be a successful lawyer? Give up your youth... You want to be a successful artist, businessman, banker, broker, physician, in your '40s / '50s? Give up your '20s... Professional careers require many sacrifices from young people, which is why the people who graduate high school and go onto blissful lives while you are working hard to get through school end up so far behind you later in life. Delayed gratification comes with the territory.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/how-government-killed-medical-profession
You don't have to take detailed notes on your patients or spend hours doing dictations. You don't have to sift through the ICD-10 which, if Medicare says you didn't bill correctly you get $0 reimbursement for your services! If you don't meet 100% of your goals as defined by Medicare, your reimbursement rate drops. You can not miss even 1 goal. Some of those goals are impossible, like ensuring that 30% of your patients log into your online portal to review their records. How exactly are you going to force your patients to do that?! There are literally THOUSANDS of codes in ICD-10, and there are now billing experts whose sole purpose it is to help doctors bill their patients correctly. All of the meaningful use laws and regulations which force doctors to treat everyone as though they are exactly the same is killing the medical profession. Doctors are increasingly denying Medicare entirely, and many older doctors are just leaving the field.
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So people are getting outraged on behalf of someone else that met a dick? Seriously?
Here's a newsflash for ya: Disgruntled people trash talk just about everyone. If it's bothering people enough to start a thread about it, then it might be time to realign your priorities.
Let me comment on this Doctor vs Dentist. Dentistry could be a specialty from medical school, it's just an accident of history that it's not. Ultimately, doctors specialize and learn something equally specific to dentistry, often more specific than the oral cavity. After 10 years of practice, they will have forgotten most of everything doesn't relate to their specialty. Personally, I don't need the approval or title. I'm getting into dentistry because I love working with my hands, I love working with people, I love operating in an independent environment, I love having the autonomy to choose my staff and hours and I think that material science is absolutely fascinating. I've personally never heard a doctor disparage dentistry, except in a joking way...and my dad and older brother are doctors.
I had an MD almost have a breakdown in the chair over his job while shadowing at the Dentist, he was so unhappy with his hours and level of stress. I had a lot of support from different MD's and DO's in different fields tell me Dentistry is the way to go. Most MD's look down on individuals who do not have a Clinical Doctorate degree (my uncle who has his doctorate in music got TOLD OFF by an MD once).
I think you find a thread like that on any profession if you look hard enough.
I am pretty sure there are opportunities in computer science that match can match what dentist make.
Nurses treat people and impacts people's lives. CPA's work with people and impact people's lives (You will probably have one btw). IT consultants work with people and impact people's lives.
I think the student loans, high overhead, and corporate dentistry make it harder now. Also, dental insurance, saturation, and squeezing of the middle class really cap your earnings.
You don't have to be CFO. There are other opportunities as an accounting major that are just as good.
I don't think so. With such focus on reducing healthcare cost and now that everyone is required to have health insurance, I think they are pretty safe in the future. They can also just work as an RN if it comes to it.
I think you will get the same feeling once you practice dentistry for awhile. Everything is about teeth in dentistry if you didn't know.
Student loan and practice loan. Unless you want be 1 mil in debt. I don't think future dentists have the same financial freedom as the ones in the past.
A lot less debt too.
Yeah but a lot of people don't expect to be living so poorly for a decade after going to through undergrad and dental school. A lot of people think once they finish dental school and they would have made it and will be coasting through life making 100k+ a year for the rest of their lives.
That is what happens when most of your payments comes from the government in every profession. Same goes for a dentist taking medicaid. There is high regulation when it comes to dishing out taxpayers' dollars. But you gotta look at the positives though. What happens if the middle class goes completely broke? Doctors will be secure because they can just get reimbursed by the government. For dentists, it really depends on person's discretionary income and a lot of people would rather spend their money on other stuff like cell phones and laptops before it comes to their teeth.
Can confirm. I work in a private family medicine practice. Medical coding and billing is a train wreck and our doctors complain about it constantly. But, I think comparing medicine to dentistry is kind of apples and oranges...
About IT, I have a B.S. in comp sci, it's a great field with ample job opportunities, but you're out of your mind if you think the average earning potential of a comp sci grad is anywhere near that of a dentist. Not to mention the business aspects, owning, being the boss, all that good stuff. Are there comp sci master minds who go out and create the next startup, app, etc? Sure. Is that the norm? Of course not.
Dentistry sets you up with a clear business plan and skill from the get go. That's a lot easier to turn in to a thriving business than a comp sci major with only a skill.
Throw in 500k in student loans and I'm not sure where this goes, but the thread was originally about saturation and then devolved in to comparing dentistry to [insert any other field].
This thread shall not die!
This thread want started for that reason... Pretty clear if you just read the OP
Did read it. Congrats. Professional school cost is skyrocketing and is basically a bubble. Dentistry doesn't require a residency right, okay so compared to say PCP's your debt is going to be way less given the same amount of loans since it's not accruing over residency when you're not really going to put much of a dent in it.
Otherwise, it seems that dentistry is going through the same growing pains that private primary care practices etc were going through. Salary goes down a bit, sure, but so does risk. Those offices have more bargaining power with insurance than individual private practices as well.
Well grass is always greener on the other side, maybe you should have practiced law and ended up working at Starbucks like a lot of law grads I know. With a huge law school debt and a barista salary to pay it back.
You sound like OP, a bitter disgruntled Dentist practicing something she does not love and complaining about it. Do your patients a favor and leave the field if you don't like it. Maybe you should have chased something you had a passion for out of College instead of being a drone and going into a profession you don't know if you would enjoy or not. Your type of complaining makes me sick, I personally know unemployed people with Masters degrees who are in severe depression because they have not found employment. Yes I will feel the same way after 5 years because I chose what I want to do with the rest of my life based on what I like, not what I think I like.
Lol what? All I meant was this thread wasn't started for the reason you mentioned
"Here's a newsflash for ya: Disgruntled people trash talk just about everyone. If it's bothering people enough to start a thread about it, then it might be time to realign your priorities."
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Everything is feeling because you don't know what its like until you're in the driver's seat. You don't know you're going to like dentistry, you just think you're going to. We all do. Its like saying you have a passion for driving without actually driving yet.
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You add nothing to the conversation but corny overused meme's
I understand what you are saying, but she spoke to me in a very condescending manner , she just sounds like a whiny Dentist who doesn't know about the job market of other careers.
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