DO School -> Residency

[cliquesh]

This means nothing unless you contrast it with DO placement.

That is true. The osteopathic charting outcome data uses comlex scores instead of usmle, so it's hard to directly compare them. 3 of 11 with level one scores between 400 and 450 matched anesthesia, and 10 of 17 matched with scores between 450 and 500. For reference, a 500 comlex and a 225 usmle are around the 50th percentile for each exam.

My program won't interview DOs with less than a 220 usmle or 600 comlex....

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[JB50]

That is true. The osteopathic charting outcome data uses comlex scores instead of usmle, so it's hard to directly compare them. 3 of 11 with level one scores between 400 and 450 matched anesthesia, and 10 of 17 matched with scores between 450 and 500.

My program won't interview DOs with less than a 220 usmle or 600 comlex....

Hence why this is a stupid debate. We all know that the COMLEX is a very different exam than the USMLE, and these outcomes are even less debatable with the impending merger.

Not being aggressive or talking down to you but I'm just saying. We actually don't definitively know.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Allopathic-Seniors-2016.pdf

Thanks for referencing a massive document that's 211 pages long. Where does it say that there is a 50% chance of matching general surgery with a 200 step 1? Just because 50% with a step 1 matched does not by any form of the word mean there's a 50% chance of matching with a step 1 score of 200 as an MD. And again, none of this means anything because there is no comparison to the osteopathic match.[/QUOTE]

The 50% holds over a number of years. Go look at all of the specialties and how many match at each Step 1 range. The truth is, whether we like it or not, that a USDO needs higher board scores than a USMD to have the same matching potential. This can be seen in almost every specialty outside of FM (generally) and the uber competitive ones (which we don't have data for unfortunately).

 

[Dr. Death]

The problem with the 50% number is that it doesn't account for AOA general surgery residencies. If you count those in, the number goes way up. Even factoring in the fact that there won't be any more AOA residencies in a few years, I still think the number is going to be much higher than 50% once they move over to the main match.

 

[JB50]

The 50% holds over a number of years. Go look at all of the specialties and how many match at each Step 1 range.

This wouldn't contribute absolutely anything to what we are discussing.

The truth is, whether we like it or not, that a USDO needs higher board scores than a USMD to have the same matching potential. This can be seen in almost every specialty outside of FM (generally) and the uber competitive ones (which we don't have data for unfortunately).

This is most likely true, but the magnitude of the difference a DO needs compared to a MD can't really be explored and explained and thus, it's pointless to even say it. If a DO with a 200 has the same matching potential as a 201 MD, then who cares? This is also comparing USMLE vs USMLE, which isn't always the case with DO grads.

 

[cliquesh]

This wouldn't contribute absolutely anything to what we are discussing.



This is most likely true, but the magnitude of the difference a DO needs compared to a MD can't really be explored and explained and thus, it's pointless to even say it. If a DO with a 200 has the same matching potential as a 201 MD, then who cares? This is also comparing USMLE vs USMLE, which isn't always the case with DO grads.

From my experience, as a pgy4 DO, a DO bias does exist and it is especially apparent when applying for residency. You can choose to ignore me if you like. The reason why I tell pre-meds and junior osteopathic students about this bias is because I want them to have realistic expectations, which, in my opinion, will help them plan for success in the future.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The problem with the 50% number is that it doesn't account for AOA general surgery residencies. If you count those in, the number goes way up. Even factoring in the fact that there won't be any more AOA residencies in a few years, I still think the number is going to be much higher than 50% once they move over to the main match.

This is what I think as well. I was strictly discussing the current ACGME match data. I really wish the Osteopathic charting outcomes included USMLE scores, it would really clear some things up.

 

[JB50]

From my experience, as a pgy4 DO, a DO bias does exist and it is especially apparent when applying for residency. You can choose to ignore me if you like. The reason why I tell pre-meds and junior osteopathic students about this bias is because I want them to have realistic expectations, which, in my opinion, will help them plan for success in the future.

Now we know why there are not as many DO's trying to pursue higher competitive fields.

 

[cliquesh]

Now we know why there are not as many DO's trying to pursue higher competitive fields.

Lol

 

[JB50]

I'd like to see where that's coming from, if ya don't mind me asking.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Allopathic-Seniors-2016.pdf

30/62 USMDs with a 200-210 matched. 7/20 with a 190-200 matched, and once you get to 211-220 93/140 matched (66%).

Edit: Also using general surgery as an example, once a USMD hits a 221 then matching GS basically becomes a foregone conclusion. A DO with that same score will be lucky to get a handful of interviews, let alone match.

I'm literally getting sick of having to point this out, but you can't say that. You post this on people's "chances" threads for both DO school and chance of matching. You have stated multiple times on this same thread that there isn't data to back that up (it literally doesn't exist), yet you still say it.

Lol

 

[cliquesh]

I'm literally getting sick of having to point this out, but you can't say that. You post this on people's "chances" threads for both DO school and chance of matching. You have stated multiple times on this same thread that there isn't data to back that up (it literally doesn't exist), yet you still say it.

I know I was interviewing with USMDs with scores in the 230s who also got interviews at programs that rejected me despite my 250+ score. Moreover, my residency program's average score is a 241, so I'm about 10 points or so above the average.

 

[JB50]

I know I was interviewing with USMDs with scores in the 230s who also got interviews at programs that rejected me despite my 250+ score. Moreover, my residency program's average score is a 241, so I'm about 10 points or so above the average.

n=1. Goes to show board scores aren't the end all be all, are they broski.......

edit: i changed the gif in my previous post.

 

[cliquesh]

n=1. Goes to show board scores aren't the end all be all, are they broski.......

edit: i changed the gif in my previous post.

Just trying to give you some data since you were complaining there wasn't any and, yeah, I was trying to argue being a USMD matters more than board scores, hah.

 

[JB50]

Just trying to give you some data since you were complaining there wasn't any and, yeah, I was trying to argue being a USMD matters more than board scores, hah.

I mean I only got an A- in stats but I can't use a single data point in my analysis boiiiiiiiiii.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm literally getting sick of having to point this out, but you can't say that. You post this on people's "chances" threads for both DO school and chance of matching. You have stated multiple times on this same thread that there isn't data to back that up (it literally doesn't exist), yet you still say it.

Yes I can. It is the truth. I really don't care if you believe it honestly. But pre-meds need to know, especially the ones interested in surgery. The differences between DO and MD are very real and if it takes you a few years to figure that out that's your decision. If you think a DO with a 200 has much of a chance at all at ACGME surg programs then you are ignoring the available data. The difference is I am going to choose to listen to residents like @cliquesh who have been through the process rather than ignore the realities.

 

[JB50]

Yes I can. It is the truth. I really don't care if you believe it honestly. (1) But pre-meds need to know, especially the ones interested in surgery. The differences between DO and MD are very real and if it takes you a few years to figure that out that's your decision. If you think a DO with a 200 has much of a chance at all at ACGME surg programs then you are ignoring the available data. The difference is I am going to choose to listen to residents like @cliquesh who have been through the process rather than ignore the realities.

Considering there isn't data to ignore...

What you should be learning is that @cliquesh is a DO in a residency with MD's. To point it out more clearly, cliquesh, assuming hes not blowing smoke, was successful as a DO in an ACGME residency. That should be your takeaway.

 

[SurgDoc95]

I think this can be summed up as you have a disadvantage as a DO and you need to do everything you can to land a gen surg residency if you want it. If you chose to go DO then YOU are the only one to blame for any bias you face as it is obvious upfront there is bias. I'm happy to be going this route as I enjoy being told I can't do something, but I realize I'm fighting an uphill battle to become a surgeon or a cardiologist.

 

[CCmetal94]

Ironic future, OP works hard, gets into an MD school, then scores 200 on step 1 and ends up in a family med residency.

So I actually know someone who did 1 year at a DO school but retook the mcat during school an applied to an MD school and was accepted. They made him redo his first year at the MD school, he ate the year of tuition at the DO school, then ended up in family medicine residency with DOs from his former school...

 

[JB50]

So I actually know someone who did 1 year at a DO school but retook the mcat during school an applied to an MD school and was accepted. They made him redo his first year at the MD school, he ate the year of tuition at the DO school, then ended up in family medicine residency with DOs from his former school...

I don't understand how that's possible if he passed his boards. Just even passed them he should be matching any specialty available. Gosh he must've been a total asshat.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I don't understand how that's possible if he passed his boards. Just even passed them he should be matching any specialty available. Gosh he must've been a total asshat.

No one has ever made this argument...

 

[JB50]

No one has ever made this argument...

Sarcasm sense is strong.